[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> I haven't used an atm in like 2 years
<jcater> so I forget about that
<jcater> :)
<jcater> err, :(
<chillywilly> why don't you use an ATM?
<chillywilly> how do you pay for your donuts?
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> it's called "Petty Cash" at work :)
<chillywilly> lol
<jcater> I borrow money from "Petty Cash" and have the accountants reimburse "Petty Cash" with part of my expense checks
<jcater> works out real well
Action: jcater is good friends w/the accounting department, though :)
<jcater> when I do need to get cash, I pay for something at the store using my Debit Card (instead of the Check card)
<jcater> that way I don't have to get out multiples of $10 or $20, and it's always free :)
<jcater> even when out of town
Action: jcater is a cheap bastard
<chillywilly> I see...
<chillywilly> yes, you cheap bastard
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> argh!!!\]
<jcater> dammit
<jcater> Comdex starts tomorrow
<chillywilly> what?
<chillywilly> where?
Action: jcater missed it again
<jcater> Chicago
<jcater> NCS has agreed to send me like the last 2 years
<chillywilly> dude
<jcater> but I forget to sign up
<chillywilly> I could;ve went
<chillywilly> bah
Action: jcater wants to get a GNUe booth at ComDex :)
<chillywilly> too late for that now isn't it?
<jcater> timing is everything
<jcater> now is not the time for GNUe to be at something like that
<jcater> but, yes, it's too late, regardless :)p
<jcater> dammit!
<jcater> what's with Flash
Action: chillywilly troutslaps jcater
<chillywilly> settle down man!
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> what's with all these sights requiring flash
<chillywilly> they are gay
<jcater> if I can't view a site in plain ole Konqueror, then I move on
Action: chillywilly has the plugin though
<jcater> I refuse to grab the plugin
<jcater> gasp!
<jcater> chillywilly: doesn't that bork up vrms?
<chillywilly> I think I used this line: deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main
<chillywilly> I don't think the one I got is non-free
<chillywilly> http://marillat.free.fr/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/flashplayer-mozilla_5.0r47-0.1_i386.deb
<chillywilly> beats me
<chillywilly> anyway, I MUST sleep
<chillywilly> have fun :)
<chillywilly> buh-bye
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<btami> Hi all!
<btami> Can anybody help me?
<btami> I have some question...
<reinhard> btami: sorry that i am again the only one here that is awake
<reinhard> evening our time would be better
<btami> I see
<reinhard> it's 2:00 in the morning in the U.S. :)
<btami> maybe later, by
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<reinhard> and most project members are from the us
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> bye
<reinhard> sigh it's time that i play with forms and designer so i can help people, too
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<JX> hi all :)
<reinhard> hi JX
<JX> I would like to propagate insert/update (not delete) performed on a pgsql server to another? How could this be done? Does replication server is suitable to distinguish between Insert/update/delete operation (rserv or pgreplica)
<JX> ?
<reinhard> oops
<reinhard> sorry i can't answer that
<reinhard> seems to be a very pgsql specific question
<JX> yes but people on postgresql chan are not quite "awake" this morning (GMT+1 here) ;)
<JX> so I tried here (hope is possible ;))
<reinhard> nice try ;)
<reinhard> j/k
<JX> lol
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<jamest> wow
<Yurik> jamest hi
<jcater> morning
Action: dneighbo rubs eyes.... is that donut boy cater?
<jamest> you're both here early
Action: dneighbo has got to stop having these wild dreams where i get up early and come to irc and jason is in there
<dneighbo> 8 mos ago i would say he hadnt gone to bed yet :)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> yeah, well
<jcater> old age is catching up w/me
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Action: jcater can't do all-nighters anymore
<chillywilly> hey dudes I can't ping from ash
<jcater> nope
<jcater> firewall rules
<chillywilly> and I want to know if my server at home is up
<chillywilly> well that is crap
<chillywilly> someone try to ping the IP for frell.dyndns.org
<jcater> jason:~# ping frell.dyndns.org
<jcater> PING frell.dyndns.org (169.207.138.120): 56 data bytes
<jcater> 64 bytes from 169.207.138.120: icmp_seq=0 ttl=115 time=260.0 ms
<jcater> 64 bytes from 169.207.138.120: icmp_seq=1 ttl=115 time=211.9 ms
<jcater> 64 bytes from 169.207.138.120: icmp_seq=2 ttl=115 time=194.0 ms
<jcater> --- frell.dyndns.org ping statistics ---
<jcater> 3 packets transmitted, 3 packets received, 0% packet loss
<jcater> round-trip min/avg/max = 194.0/221.9/260.0 ms
<jcater> jason:~#
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> well that's gay
<chillywilly> brb
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<jcater> sigh
<jcater> not even a thank you
<jcater> :)
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<chillywilly> I dunno wtf happended but I get a connection refused now on the ssh port (22)
<chillywilly> bah!
<chillywilly> I didn't change anything
<chillywilly> oh well
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<jamest> netselect-apt 
<jcater> dude
<jcater> anyone seen alterslash.org?
<dneighbo> huh
<dneighbo> hmm
<dneighbo> i miss geekboys.net
<dneighbo> jamest what is netselect-apt
<jamest> dneighbo: will use wget to pull the list of debian mirror sites, compare their responce times, etc, to find the best mirror for you to pull from
<jamest> it'll then generate a source.list style file that contains those 
<jamest> so that
<jamest> netselect-apt woody
<jamest> will generate the best woddy mirrors to put in your source.list
<jamest> btw - you have to have ping not blocked or it generates a bad file :(
<jamest> i just found that out
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<dneighbo> rofl
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<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> now aint that a humm dinger
<dneighbo> someone@microsoft.com has joined the gnu biz network mailing list :)
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<btami> hi all
<btami> can anybody help me, I have 2 questions
<btami> ?
<btami> it is too early or late now, or nobody here ?
<btami> nobody :(
<btami> by
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<dneighbo> doh
<dneighbo> just missted him
<dneighbo> dang it
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<Arturas> Hello
<dneighbo> hello
<drochaid> feasgar math
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<Arturas2> have a good day :)
<Arturas2> bye
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<dsmith> Hey ho.  Anyone awake?
<reinhard> yes
<dneighbo> please define awake
<dsmith> Hrmmm
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<btami> Hi all!
<btami> I will never giv up :)
<btami> Anybody can help me ?
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<btami> reinhard ? (in neighborhood)
<btami> ?
<jcater> what's the question?
<btami> hah
<btami> 1. I am testing forms/designer and
<btami> made a master-detail form with designer
<btami> when I run it with gfclient it say:
<btami> dynamic SQL error Token unknown NULL
<btami> it is came from _dbsig.DBdriver._buildQueryCount
<jcater> hmm
<btami> the SQL sentence is:
<jcater> is this the cvs version? or a released version?
<btami> yes
<btami> CVS
<btami> select count(*) from employee_project where emp_no = NULL
<btami> I think "emp_no IS NULL" is the correct syntax
<btami> isn't it?
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<jcater> um
<jcater> is employee_project the detail table
<jcater> (sorry about the delays, I'm at work :)
<btami> yes 
<btami> and employee is the master
<btami> this is from the standard example database shipped with interbase
<jcater> do you have records in employee where emp_no is null?
<jcater> is this happening after running a query? or when you first open the form? or after inserting a new record?
<btami> no, it is a generated primary key in table
<btami> when I first open the form
<btami> nothing visible yet
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> so there is a null emp_no?
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> we haven't accounted for that yet
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<btami> no, there is not null
<jcater> oh
<jcater> hmm
<btami> I think it is a programming error, becouse "emp_no=NULL" is wrong
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> but it doesn't do that with the other databases
<jcater> so I'm trying to figure out what triggers that
<btami> "emp_no IS NULL" a correct syntax
<jcater> well
<jcater> ouch
<jcater> actually
<jcater> emp_no = NULL is valid too
<jcater> except that it always returns false
<jcater> hmm
<btami> but not in SQL92
<btami> I think
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> it looks like SQL92 defines NULL = NULL to be false
<jcater> but we'll have to work around interbase
<jcater> I guess I need to grab a copy of interbase
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<btami> I read in "A first course in database systems" by Ullman-Widom that
<btami> NULL is not a constans value, and field=NULL is not a valid expression
<btami> interbase says too :)
<psu> btami: yep. NULL is never equal to anything, not even NULL
<psu> of course, this isn't how d/b users want it, so you end up using "IS"
<psu> i.e. field IS NULL, which will either be true or false
<btami> yes, but interbase sends me: dynamic sql error. token unknown NULL
<jcater> well, we'll have to work around that
<jcater> all the other db's define field = null to be false
<jcater> so whichever is right, we'll have to work around it
<jcater> :)
<btami> OK
<btami> but I have another question
<btami> I cant see the toolbar in designer
<btami> everything else is OK
<btami> ?
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> are you on Windows?
<btami> win2k
<btami> python 2.1.2
<jcater> yah
<jcater> this is a known issue with Windows
<jcater> I'm still trying to figure this one out :(
<btami> I dont like win, but use :(
<btami> is anybody working on forms now?
<jcater> I'm looking at the is null thing right now
<btami> what time is it there? (here 23.13)
<psu> jcater: I thought Oracle was the same, i.e. field = NULL is a syntax error
<jcater> 16:13
<btami> :)
<jcater> SQL> select * from dual where dummy = null;
<jcater> no rows selected
<jcater> SQL>
<jcater> :)
<psu> ack
<psu> I think that's technically wrong
<reinhard> btami: i'm happy to see you finally got in contact with jcater
<psu> of course, Mr. Ellison does have several billion dollars weight of argument on his side ;-)
<btami> me too
<jcater> psu: well, I'm not so sure
<btami> hi reinhard
<jcater> as = NULL is technically the same as = UNKNOWN
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> gives me a headache
<btami> :(
<jcater> either way, we are fixing our code to remove any ambiguity :)
<btami> thanks
<btami> I was happy to talk to you
<btami> by
<psu> having stirred all that up, time for bed
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<jcater> reinhard: if you see btami again, and I'm not in here, can you tell him CVS should be fixed
<jcater> err, the IS NULL problem should be fixed
<jcater> I still haven't a clue about the toolbar under Windows
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<chillywilly> re
<jcater> er
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> uh?
Action: jcater is tired
<chillywilly> sorry if I make you sigh
<jcater> geeze
<jcater> you're as bad as my wife
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> I'm only joking dawg
<chillywilly> izzz a'ight
Action: chillywilly throws jcater a donut
Action: jcater smiles
Action: chillywilly checks the commit list to see if jcater deserves another donut
Action: chillywilly throws jcater another donut
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> jcater: will you code for donuts?
<jcater> of course
<jcater> ls -ld .*
<chillywilly> .donut
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> lol
<MicahY> anyone seen derek around here?
<MicahY> recently?
<chillywilly> sure, yesterday
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: chillywilly investogates why he could not ssh into hos box
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<MicahY> hmm, hope he's ok. :)
<chillywilly> hmmm,  thinks that was the result of a stale IP
<chillywilly> blah
<MicahY> well if it's any encouragement to anyone, I'm working with a couple missions organizations in Ecuador right now....
<MicahY> ...and they're using Linux a LOT!
<chillywilly> I need a static IP
<MicahY> :)
<MicahY> increasingly in fact. :)
<chillywilly> cool
<MicahY> yeah, we're getting there.  I predict 3 more years until Desktop Domination. :)
<chillywilly> :)
Action: chillywilly hugs his Gnome desktop
<reinhard> nightall
<reinhard> em
<reinhard> night all
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<chillywilly_> mmmmmmm
<chillywilly_> apple fritters
<chillywilly_> : 0
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<drochaid> give you the shi... indeed
<chillywilly> uh?
<drochaid> <chillywilly_> apple fritters
<drochaid> <drochaid> give you the shi... indeed
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> w/e
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<chillywilly> howdy jamest_
<jamest_> howdy
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<drochaid_> hmm ... I left :/
<chillywilly> stop doing that theb
<chillywilly> er, then
Action: chillywilly troutslaps drochaid_
<drochaid_> :(
<chillywilly> omg!
<chillywilly> http://www.theaustralianit.com.au/articles/0,7204,3888418%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.html
<chillywilly> "The GPL is commonly used to distribute source code for free. In its most common form, the GPL does not allow developers to charge for any product based on code released under the licence."
<chillywilly> what bullshit
<drochaid_> :o
<chillywilly> why do they waste space by interviewing Mundie?
<chillywilly> he's so f***ing clueless
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> a 'hit' program
<chillywilly> that's just too funny
<chillywilly> some people don't code only for the money Mr. Mundie, please remove your head from your ass
<chillywilly> M$ is just so damned scared right now...that's all I can draw form these rantings
<chillywilly> hey did you guys know GNU/Linux has 40% market share in Germany?
<jamest_> i did not know that
<jamest_> i will say that KSU Math has more Linux (KDE and Gnome) on private users desktops that Windows
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> man this one article is pure M$ FUD
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-03-04-004-20-PS-DP
<drochaid_> KSU Math ??
<jamest_> where I an sysadmin
<jamest_> Kansas State University Math Dept
<drochaid_> ah right
Action: chillywilly awaits the release of Windows CEMENT
<chillywilly> "It turns you computer intoa  great door stop!"
<drochaid_> uh, got that already dood
<chillywilly> do I have to get the trout?
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<drochaid_> yes please :)
Action: chillywilly trout whips drochaid_ into submission
<drochaid_> :o
<drochaid_> :D
<chillywilly> you must be one who likes punishment
<drochaid_> yes, I still use windows as my primary desktop
<chillywilly> :/
<drochaid_> I don't want to, I just can't get the apps I need on linux yet
<drochaid_> in time hopefully
<chillywilly> what apps?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> after all, linux plays most pr0n formats these days
<jcater> what else could you need?
<jcater> :p
<chillywilly> :D
<drochaid_> lol
<drochaid_> back in a few mins
<drochaid_> chillywilly: still around?
<drochaid_> ah pooey
<drochaid_> well, apps
<drochaid_> dezign for databases
<drochaid_> select ssadm
<drochaid_> photoshop
<drochaid_> illustrator
<drochaid_> pagemaker
<drochaid_> acrobat
<drochaid_> indesign
<drochaid_> dreamweaver
<drochaid_> pmail
<drochaid_> digiguide
<drochaid_> palm desktop
<drochaid_> drivers for my colour laser [yet]
<drochaid_> sage financial controller
<drochaid_> and quite a few more you couldn't care less about
<drochaid_> any machine I've got that doesn't require a windows app, uses either linux or a bsd
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> what does dezign for databases do?
<chillywilly> there are Free alternatives for most of what you just typed ;)
<drochaid_> erd mapping and schema outputs for most sql based dbs
<chillywilly> GNUe designer and Forms ;)
<drochaid_> yes, and most of them suck
<drochaid_> gnue forms and designer replace WHAT that I mentione?
<chillywilly> the database schema thingy
Action: jcater won't comment on suckiness of pagemaker :)
<drochaid_> no
<jamest_> drochaid_: photoshop
<drochaid_> erd design and ddl script production
<jamest_> under the data -> emulate -> photoshop option on designer
<jamest_> :)
<drochaid_> jamest_: ??
<jamest_> yip
<jamest_> lauches xfig
<chillywilly> photoshop == gimp
<chillywilly> ;)
<drochaid_> balls
<jamest_> that's a good photoshop replacement isn't it :)
<drochaid_> gimp is good, but not that good
<chillywilly> acrobat == xpdf
<drochaid_> not the same thing ata ll
<jcater> chillywilly: acrobat *reader* == xpdf
<drochaid_> all xpdf does [that I know of] is create dpfs
<chillywilly> jcater: yes, sorry
<jcater> acrobat == gs
<drochaid_> ooh .. not xpdf, but I know there is one
<drochaid_> ah gs
<jamest_> acrobar = gs = crappy TeX font support
<chillywilly> what does sage financial controller do?
<drochaid_> but thats only a replacement for acrobat pdf writer ... what about the other components of acrobat?
<drochaid_> sage fin con is an enterprise level accounting package
<chillywilly> adobe should be boycotted anyway
<drochaid_> it's the most comprehensive off the shelf package there is
<drochaid_> chillywilly: kinda difficult when there are no serious alternatives, I agree with the sentiment tho
<chillywilly> the thing is you've let yourself get locked in my friend
<drochaid_> no
<drochaid_> the thing is, I use the products that do what I need
<drochaid_> and I'm not going to avoid a product or OS unless there is a viable alternative
<jcater> I'm a QuarkXPress person myself
<jcater> although I am learning I love the unix photo tools much more than photoshop
<jcater> esp, imagemagick
<chillywilly> most adobe products can be replaced ;)
<drochaid_> that rather depends what you use them for chillywilly
<drochaid_> jcater: I could never get into quark
<jcater> it is the industry standard
<drochaid_> that and pagemaker/indesign is more suited to my dtp needs
Action: jcater consider's it a "power" tool
<drochaid_> jno, it's the industry standard for magazine publishing ;)
<jcater> well
<jcater> we are a magazine company
<jcater> :D
<chillywilly> hehe
<drochaid_> pagemaker is more suited to smaller flyers and materials
<drochaid_> indesign is more suited to high artwork intensive publications etc
<jcater> it is also the standard for catalog production
<drochaid_> but you have a good reason to use quark ;)
Action: chillywilly thinks jcater should write a Free QXpress replacement
<drochaid_> catalogue == magazine
<chillywilly> drochaid_: you're not european are you?
<chillywilly> ;P
<drochaid_> Scotland :P
<drochaid_> but I meant in terms of design and production
<jcater> we run QuarkXPress, Freehand, and Photoshop under Win4Lin on Linux now
<jcater> it's *much* faster than running native on Windows
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> of course, that's still proprietary
<jcater> but at least we don't dual boot
<jcater> :)
<drochaid_> I've had pretty good usage with vmware, but it doesn't give enough tp hardware control for me to use it
<drochaid_> that and my machine isn't meaty enough
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> vmware is kinda kludgy
<MicahY> I just tried to install vmware for the first time this afternoon
<jcater> and big
<MicahY> didn't work...
<MicahY> I have an upgraded rh 7.2 kernel and it didn't like the modules....
<MicahY> :(
<drochaid_> :/
<derek> so much log so little time
<derek> MicahY: win4lin
<chillywilly> anyone know if you compile the in-kernel pcmcia crap if the separate packaged stuff will work?
<chillywilly> derek: I think recommending prop. software in a GNU channel is forbidden ;) (j/k)
<drochaid_> hmmm, bed
<drochaid_> nite all
<chillywilly> bye
<derek> chillywilly: um he said vmware (which isnt free)
<chillywilly> I know
<chillywilly> but I was being nice
<derek> as far as i can tell there is currently no free equivalent or even close
<chillywilly> but you
<chillywilly> don;t have that luxury
<chillywilly> plex86 is improvng I hear....not sure if it is even close to being any good yet
<drochaid_> derek: there is one that's doing quite well ... can't remember the nme tho
<drochaid_> ah plex86 .. that's it
<MicahY> it's not for me.  But we have a guy here at the MK school where I'm at that is try ing to convert to almost all Linux.
<derek> plex and bochs i think are the ones
<derek> but last i saw they were crap
<MicahY> but he needs a bit of 'doze still
<drochaid_> it needs some fudging .. but it looks promising
Action: chillywilly got winblows out of the house permanently ;)
<drochaid_> bit like GNUe at the mo >:)
Action: drochaid_ legs it
<drochaid_> chillywilly: not a bit drafty then?
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<drochaid_> anyways, i left .. cya
<chillywilly> heh, yea
Action: chillywilly goes back to ODMG
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<chillywilly> don't you like it when people come in and insult your project?
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> we'll show them!
<chillywilly> GNUe is going to be the best damn thingy ever!
<chillywilly> king of thingies!
<chillywilly> wooo!
<chillywilly> *sigh*
Action: jcater slaps chillywilly
<jcater> get a grip, man!
<chillywilly> that was called sarcasm
Action: chillywilly strangles jcater with a mouse cord
<chillywilly> oh, wait....my mouse doesn't have a cord
<chillywilly> damn you!!!
<derek> hmmm 
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Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by derek!~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net: GNUe Rated PG-13 (Excessive Violence)
<derek> so what happened in here today?
<derek> anything worth reading about?
<chillywilly> ah, nothing much
<chillywilly> not that I can tell
<chillywilly> nice topic dawg ;)
<jcater> well, bill gates came by asking about some trout-networking protocol
<chillywilly> dude the howto packages are friggin HUGE
<jcater> we tried to sell chillywilly to him
<jcater> but he wouldn't budge from $10
<chillywilly> nah, I just did a ping o' death and he went bye bye
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> then Larry Ellison came by
<jcater> and mentioned that because his stocks are doing dismal
<jcater> he wants to borrow our stuff for "cost cutting" reasons, or something like that
<jcater> I tried to give him GEAS, but he wouldn't take it
<jcater> other than that
<jcater> nothing happening today
<chillywilly> ouch, that hurts man
<chillywilly> (shea, right)
<jcater> <for all would-be litigators out there reading my comments, this is considered SATIRE, not LIBEL!!!>
<chillywilly> ping o' death == bucket of trout
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> gotta cover your ass eh?
<jcater> well
<jcater> ya never know
<chillywilly> you wouldn't want that thing uncovered anyways, you mght blind an innocent child ;)
<jcater> chillywilly: how true
<jcater> I dunno, though
<jcater> all those donuts give me a "friendly" looking
<jcater> like a teddy bear
<derek> rofl
Action: derek runs off
<chillywilly> dude #debian is lame
Action: chillywilly is sooo contemplating on starting #debian-help
<chillywilly> ;)
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<chillywilly> hiya dsmith
<nickr> heh funny topig
Action: chillywilly is a violent kinda guy
<chillywilly> hey nickr, you ever make an initrd image for a kernel?
<chillywilly> if so, did you use mkinitrd or do it the way in /usr/src/linux/Documentation/initrd.txt
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<dtm> chillywilly: i did, and yes
<dtm> chillywilly: not that anyone's asking me.
<chillywilly> yea, I just did apt-get install initrd-tools
<chillywilly> and then info mkinitrd
<chillywilly> ;)
<dtm> oh, well then.
Action: chillywilly has a fatter kernel now
<chillywilly> this thing is taking much longer to compile
<chillywilly> hopefully I'll have all the drivers to get this burner working ;)
<dtm> you deserve the phattest kernel in the land, bro
<chillywilly> hehe, :)
<chillywilly> I took the stock debian kernel config and modified that so now I have tons of crao that I'll probably never use ;)
<chillywilly> er, crap
<chillywilly> shit now I'll have to remember to build an initrd every time I build a new kernel
<chillywilly> *joy*
<chillywilly> dtm: you usually build it after you install the new kernel? Seems to me you have to point it at the modules dir and it looks in its config file to determine which ones to use in the image
<dtm> chillywilly: why'd you modify it with stuf fyou dont use
<dtm> chillywilly: you mean you're building modules, or did you patch it uselessly or what
<chillywilly> it build a lto more modules
<chillywilly> er, builds a lot more
<chillywilly> no biggie
<chillywilly> I did patch it with preemption and O(1) scheduler
<chillywilly> but that's besides the point ;)
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--- Tue Mar  5 2002