[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> how does that have anythign to do with oral sex?
<chillywilly> maybe you just need to get over you homophobic tendencies
<nickr> maybe.
Action: chillywilly troutslaps nickr upside his melon
Action: chillywilly has heart burn form mom's chilly
<nickr> yow
<nickr> :(
<nickr> I want some chilly
<chillywilly> crazymike: yup need to put that script in a place where it will execute stiff right after it brings the network interface up
<chillywilly> ummm actually....
<crazymike> I can't find the shit it installed
<chillywilly> how are yoi going to do that
<chillywilly> I havemy server box do it becasue I update my hostnames with the public IP
<chillywilly> I dunno how you can have your router do that
Action: chillywilly ponders some more
<chillywilly> crazymike: use find ;)
<crazymike> i tried
<chillywilly> and?
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<chillywilly> do this
<crazymike> find -name ipcheck
<chillywilly> look for ipcheck.py
<chillywilly> find / -name ipcheck.py
<chillywilly> find / -name ipcheck.py -print
<crazymike> got it
<chillywilly> where did it put it?
<crazymike> /usr/sbin
<chillywilly> dude
<chillywilly> which ipcheck.py also works for executables
<chillywilly> it works for finding any executable
<chillywilly> (mostly)
<chillywilly> or 'whereis ipcheck.py'
<chillywilly> man which
<chillywilly> man whereis
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> manwhich
<chillywilly> ;P
<crazymike> Example 2: you are using the Linksys routing device
<crazymike> python ipcheck.py -l -L linksyspassword username password hostnames
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> you can have it use your router
<crazymike> username password hostnames for what???
<chillywilly> for your setup
<crazymike> my computer, my router
<crazymike> ???
<chillywilly> once you get a dydns.org account
<crazymike> i did get one
<crazymike> ohhh
<chillywilly> your dyndns.org account that allows you to update the host name
<crazymike> that username and shit
<chillywilly> your hostname(s)
<chillywilly> yep
<crazymike> crazymike@dyndns.org
<crazymike> :)
<chillywilly> that's not your account and username
<crazymike> i know
<chillywilly> just one of your hostnames
<crazymike> thats a hostname
<chillywilly> yep
<crazymike> Problems looking up hostname crazymike@dyndns.org
<crazymike> damn it
<chillywilly> it shouldn't be '@'
<chillywilly> should be
<chillywilly> crazymike.dyndns.org
<crazymike> ahhh
<crazymike> duh
<crazymike> I am a fucking idiot
<chillywilly> nah
<chillywilly> we should go to bed
<chillywilly> byw
<chillywilly> what you need to do now is
<chillywilly> up a script in
<chillywilly> /etc/network/if-up.d$
<chillywilly> that calls ipcheck.py
<chillywilly> so when the interface comesup
<chillywilly> it updates the dns entry
<chillywilly> automagically
<nickr> automagicr
<nickr> I'm starving.
<chillywilly> #!/bin/sh
<chillywilly> # cat /etc/hosts-up | sed -e s/--IP--/$PPP_LOCAL/g > /etc/hosts
<chillywilly> ipcheck.py -d /etc -i ppp0 --syslog --acctfile /etc/ipcheck.acct
<chillywilly> in /etc/ipcheck.acct I have my username and password for dyndns.org account
<chillywilly> er, -i eth0 for you
<crazymike> what's all that hsit
<crazymike> shit
<chillywilly> lets you update the host enrty automagically
<chillywilly> entry
<crazymike> I am supposed to put some shit in /etc/network/if-up.d
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> a script
<crazymike> all that that you typed???
<chillywilly> vi dyndns.org
<crazymike> or whats that
<chillywilly> enter that line
<chillywilly> line(s)
<chillywilly> #!/bin/sh
<chillywilly> [00:09:13] <chillywilly> # cat /etc/hosts-up | sed -e s/--IP--/$PPP_LOCAL/g > /etc/hosts
<chillywilly> [00:09:13] <chillywilly> ipcheck.py -d /etc -i ppp0 --syslog --acctfile /etc/ipcheck.acct
<chillywilly> [00:09:39] <chillywilly> in /etc/ipcheck.acct I have my username and password for dyndns.org account
<chillywilly> seee how it calls ipcheck.py?
<chillywilly> uses an 'account' file
<crazymike> it says it isn't midifiable
<crazymike> modifiable
<chillywilly> you root?
<crazymike> yeah
<chillywilly> you should just install ssh
<chillywilly> and opne the port ;)
<chillywilly> er,open
<chillywilly> create an account for me ;)
<chillywilly> I'll log i your box and hook you up
<chillywilly> then I can go tobed
<chillywilly> ;P
<crazymike> I have ssh
<chillywilly> do you have sshd running?
<crazymike> I dunno, but it is on my system
<chillywilly> you need to open and forward the port
<chillywilly> port 22
<chillywilly> btw, you should pick better passwords for root and yourself if you're going to open your box up to the world
<chillywilly> (running apache and ssh
<chillywilly> )
<crazymike> yeah
<crazymike> I need to do that
<crazymike> when you put in http://crazymike.dyndns.org in galeon it goes to my router setup
<crazymike> well, if you have the password
<crazymike> but that isn't right
<chillywilly> woah
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> yea, your router is a web server
<chillywilly> it has one it it to configure it...
<crazymike> try it
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> we'll need to work around that
<crazymike> but that is 192.168.1.1
<crazymike> that doesn't make sense
<crazymike> I didn't forward the shit to that
<crazymike> I dunno
<crazymike> so what do I need to do to set up ssh
<chillywilly> just
<chillywilly> apt-get install ssh
<chillywilly> then open and forward port 22
<crazymike> i did that
<chillywilly> btw, I cannto access your box form the outside
<chillywilly> on port 80
<crazymike> I forwarded 22
<crazymike> no???
<crazymike> do I need to reboot???
<chillywilly> your firewall must still be blocking
<crazymike> probably
<chillywilly> you shouldn't
<chillywilly> brb
<chillywilly> gotta piss
<crazymike> I don't ahve a firewall, the router is the firewall
<chillywilly> yes which means tyou have a firewall
<chillywilly> jsut because it is hardware doesn't mean you don't have one ;)
<crazymike> yeah, but forwarding the ports should open that
<crazymike> shouldn't it
<chillywilly> no
<crazymike> i don't see anything to open tehm
<crazymike> them
<chillywilly> forwarding has to do with routing
<chillywilly> (NAT stuiff again(
<chillywilly> a firewall block connections to various ports
<chillywilly> (i.e., packet filtering)
<crazymike> I know that
<crazymike> i need to filter???
<chillywilly> you need to stop dropping http packets ;)
<chillywilly> (port 80)
<chillywilly> you can;t turn it off anywhere?
<crazymike> i don't see anything for opening ports
<chillywilly> there's no firewall config that says what is allowed?
<chillywilly> damn and you have school tomorrow
<crazymike> there is filtering, forwarding, dynamic routing, static routing, DMZ Host
<chillywilly> go to filtering
<crazymike> damn, it still said DHCP was enabled...I disabled it
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> give that thing a kick ;)
<crazymike> ok...I am at filtering
<crazymike> Filters enable you to prevent certain PCs on your network from accessing your Internet connection.
<crazymike> In order to use this feature, DHCP must be disabled on the router.
<chillywilly> you only want to filter the outside interface
<chillywilly> (public IP for the router)
<crazymike> nothing is listed on the filter list
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> well dude I think that's going to have to be something I come over and look at with you as I am not familiar with using a hardware router
<crazymike> thats an internal filtering thing
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> hmmm
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<chillywilly> why the hell would you want to filter hosts on the internal network
<chillywilly> hey reinhard
<reinhard> mornin
<chillywilly> only for you ;)
<chillywilly> Tue Mar 12 00:28:05 CST 2002
<chillywilly> crazymike: you can't see anyway to control outside access to the router?
<chillywilly> dude
<crazymike> nope
<crazymike> reading this manual for the router it seems that forwarding it should open it
<chillywilly> Enable DMZ : Yes  No
<chillywilly> Multiple PCs can be exposed to the Internet for two-way communication, e.g. Internet gaming, video conferencing, or as VPN server / Clients. To use the DMZ, you must set a static IP address for a DMZ PC and set that PC to use the selected IP address.
<chillywilly> go to DMZ host
<crazymike> ok\
<crazymike> ok
<chillywilly> hmmm
<crazymike> it just asks for an IP
<crazymike> This feature sets a local user to be exposed to the Internet. Any user on the Internet can access in/out data from the DMZ host. Enable the feature as you wish to use special-purpose service.
<crazymike> that may be it, hey
<chillywilly> then you csan make your linus box filter the packets and forward ports...
<chillywilly> but that sound like a strange hack
<chillywilly> sorta makes your router obsolete then ;)
<crazymike> I dunno
<crazymike> naw, cause then I would need another nic card
<crazymike> :)
<crazymike> in my machin
<crazymike> e
<chillywilly> true
<chillywilly> well at least you got it so you're on the net at boot up right?
<chillywilly> you did get that tow rok right?
<chillywilly> er, work
<crazymike> nope
<chillywilly> fudge
<reinhard> off to customer
<reinhard> l8r all
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<chillywilly> bye
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> he has THE best quit messages
<crazymike> well dude
<crazymike> I need to go to bed
<chillywilly> it's bed time
<chillywilly> yep
<chillywilly> me too
<crazymike> otherwise I won't make it to work in the morning
<chillywilly> see ya tomorrow
<crazymike> meet me at 7:30
<crazymike> not 7
<chillywilly> ok
<crazymike> give us a bit extra
<crazymike> :)
<chillywilly> ;P
<crazymike> later
<chillywilly> night
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<ToyMan_> jamest here?
<jamest_> sorta
<jamest_> what's up?
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<jamest_> what's up?/msg ToyMan_ you here?
<jamest_> whoops :)
<ToyMan_> yeah, hi jamest
<jamest_> hi
<jamest_> what did you need?
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<Arturas> Hello :)
<jamest_> hi
<Yurik> Arturas hi
<Arturas> Could someone please explain me one English sentence (found it in documentation, so it sounds very officially and i don't understand it perfectly :(  )
<Arturas> "In this release, wxString only supports contruction from a unicode string, but in net one it will be capable of also stpring it's internal data in either ASCII or unicode."
<Arturas> sorry: net => next
<jamest_> i think they are saying that the current wxString can only store unicode data but after the next release of wxwindows the wxstring will be able to store either unicode data or ascii data
<Arturas> thank you
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<neilt> hello all
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<jamest_> hi neilt
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<Arturas> hello chillywilly :)
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<Arturas> :|
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<jamest_> lunch!
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<dneighbo> hi Arturas you get your patch emailed to info@gnue.org?
<dneighbo> will the real jt please stand up? please stand up?
<Arturas> Hello Derek :)
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<Arturas> bye
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<dneighbo> jcater or jamest is there a chance sometime today or tomorrow you could bundle .exes from current cvs?
<jcater> I can't
<dneighbo> i have some windows clients here needing updating (and dont want to resort to actual cvs (with dependencies)
<jcater> it's hell here
<dneighbo> jcater i COMPLETELY understand im in hell too
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<jamest_> dneighbo: maybe tonight or tomorrow but no promises :(
<dneighbo> fair enough
<dneighbo> as soon as i get a windows box that i can get cvs all up and ready on i wont bug you all for it :)
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<reinhard> and off again
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<yogurt2unge> I'm starting with forms and designer and I have a dude, exist any element to see a relationship 1:n? 
<yogurt2unge> When I worked in NEXTSTEP, I had a browse object that I can connect with the output of the SQL query
<dneighbo> ?
<dneighbo> you have a 'dude'?
<dneighbo> im here to help but not sure i understand what you are asking :)
<yogurt2unge> Ok, my english is very bad
<chillywilly> hey dudes
<chillywilly> wheich file has that generic function that loads db drivers?
<dneighbo> chillywilly ?
<chillywilly> I looked in the common code a while back
<chillywilly> there ws a function that did the per directory loading of the db drivers
<dneighbo> yogurt2unge im not familiar w/ NEXTSTEP
<chillywilly> which is also reused in gnurpc
<chillywilly> and loads the commdrivers
<chillywilly> IIRC
Action: chillywilly is responding to reinhard's draft API mail to gnue-dev
<chillywilly> i think this same code should be used to load authentication modules in the security subsystem
<chillywilly> to support more then one form of authentication
<chillywilly> another pluggable arhitecture
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: Have I a element in forms to see all output a sql query, or a relationship 1:n?
<dneighbo> chillywilly ah sorry was thinking something diff (use the source luke)
<dneighbo> yogurt2unge i still am not sure i understand
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: Any element like a browser element, in JAVA is jtable
<dneighbo> can you open designer?
<yogurt2unge> ok
<yogurt2unge> I have a designer open
<yogurt2unge> I have a designer opened
<jamest_> chillywilly: the code you are looking for is the dyn_import function
<chillywilly> yes!
<jamest_> in common/src/__init__.py
<chillywilly> thanks dude
<jamest_> it's also used to load UI drivers in forms
<chillywilly> uhuh
<chillywilly> it's just a nice utility
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> which should be used
<dneighbo> yogurt2unge in designer there is menu choice 'window'
<dneighbo> under it are options
<dneighbo> 'object navigator'
<dneighbo> 'data source editor'
<dneighbo> 'schema navigator'
<dneighbo> object navigator gives you a 'tree view' of all objects on a form
<dneighbo> and lets you launch a property editor for each object
<dneighbo> schema navigator lets you look at a database
<dneighbo> get a list of tables
<dneighbo> select a table and get a list of fields with data types etc
<yogurt2unge> Wait the minute please
<dneighbo> datasource editor is kind of inbetween
<dneighbo> im not sure if this what you are looking for or not
<dneighbo> you say SQL but im not sure if you mean the actual SQL statements or the 'uderlying table definitions'
<yogurt2unge> Ok, I see some choise, but ...
<yogurt2unge> I don't see a control object to show a table items
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: I want to show some items a table, and the user must browse and choose one  
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: do you undestand me?
<chillywilly> dneighbo: how do you run ispell on your emacs buffer?
<chillywilly> s/your/an
<yogurt2unge> chillywilly: use spell-buffer o spell-region
<chillywilly> what command though?
<yogurt2unge> I'm using M-x spell-buffer
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> i dont understand yogurt2unge 
<dneighbo> when you say user do you mean developer
<dneighbo> or in forms itself
<dneighbo> maybe you mean a 'filter'
<dneighbo> if you are talking forms
<dneighbo> we dont have a 'lookup' widget done yet
<dneighbo> but you can do inline filtering
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: Ok, be patient
<dneighbo> what is your native language?
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> M-x ispell seems to work fine ;)
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<dneighbo> usted habla espanoles
<yogurt2unge> SIp pero ya soos dos
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, he does.
Action: chillywilly will be releaseing his draft architecture/API by no later than this weekend
<chillywilly> for GEAS v2
<dneighbo> my spanish is too poor to probably translate
<yogurt2unge> You can speak in english
<dneighbo> if was french or russian
<dneighbo> we have people who could readily translate
<StyXman> dneighbo: all yogurt2unge wants is to display a grid of items, being the amount of items variable...
<StyXman> like a form thatn can fit any database table...
<dneighbo> hmmm we dont do that
<StyXman> mmm... do you thing it would be difficult to add such a widget?
<nickr> ooka chaka
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<chillywilly> hey dude
<chillywilly> I just responded to your API email
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<StyXman> hi, is there a way to add a grid-like widget to a form?
Action: chillywilly pokes jamest_
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<StyXman> all right. better luck next time... bye yogurt2unge 
<yogurt2unge> Ok tomorrow is another day, bye
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<neilt> later all, hopefully I get net access tonight :)
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<dneighbo> darn i got disconnected
<dneighbo> was someone able to help yogurt?
<chillywilly> no, he left
<chillywilly> you ever listen to the linux show dneighbo?
<chillywilly> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-03-12-008-26-PR-CY
<dneighbo> in cvs from 03.07.2002 is prequery broken?
<dneighbo> chillywilly no
<chillywilly> I have listened several times
<dneighbo> and
<chillywilly> it's pretty cool, imho
<nickr> 'yer mom' today on the Linux Show
<chillywilly> why does everyone make fun of it?
<chillywilly> they are ripping on it in gstreamer
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> er, #gstreamer
<nickr> Because their headlines sound cheesy
<nickr> ugh, need java
<chillywilly> for what?
<nickr> so I'll be all jittery and get things done?
<chillywilly> oh that kinda java
<nickr> tch, what'd you think I meant!?
<chillywilly> well let's see
<chillywilly> we are geeks
<chillywilly> this is a programming project
<chillywilly> my mind automatically thinks of a 'programming' langauge
<nickr> okay, but also note that java is the name of the unspeakable programming language that no one here likes, uses or even mentions because if you say its name three times it'll come and mess up all your software development process
<chillywilly> yes, we all loathe it here
<nickr> did I mention that its unspeakable?
<chillywilly> and you said 'ugh'
<chillywilly> so you see why I would think that?
<nickr> yea, I could see how it'd be misconstrued.
<nickr> I shoulda said 'oy grf,'
<chillywilly> heh
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<chillywilly> well
<nickr> if the pig is in fact chillywilly 
<chillywilly> damn skippy
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> my email has not made it to the list yet
<chillywilly> hmmm, reinhard uses evilution
<dneighbo> jamest jamest_ jcater do you know if prequery="" is broken in cvs?
<dneighbo> i switched wifey to evolution last night
<dneighbo> hopefully will be good outcome
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> but sitll flaky vid driver eh?
<chillywilly> er, still
<dneighbo> well the mouse thing i think is fixed
<chillywilly> cool
<dneighbo> and have 1024x768 resolution
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<chillywilly> nice
<dneighbo> with slightly less 'static'
<dtm> hi.
<dneighbo> but its not fixed completely
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<dneighbo> still cant switch vt
<dneighbo> and want other static gone
<chillywilly> :(
<dtm> chillywilly: i'm in the dawghouse
<chillywilly> what do you mean by 'static;?
<dtm> chillywilly: i gotsta straighten my life out today :)
<chillywilly> dtm: why?
<dneighbo> no you are in the dawg pound ;)
<dtm> hehe
<chillywilly> dtm: what's crooked with it ;)
<dneighbo> chillywilly static means little specs of white that 'jump' around window edges when moving windows
<dneighbo> or repainting windows
<dtm> my goals are crooked   my path is crooked :)
<chillywilly> dneighbo: funky
<dneighbo> it used to be much worse, but its better now, just not completely better :)
<dtm> and acrobat reader wont launch properly --  it's a sign!
<chillywilly> hiiis
<chillywilly> ss
<dneighbo> hey i installed vrms finally
<chillywilly> acrobat reader is non-free
<chillywilly> dneighbo: cool ;)
<chillywilly> try xpdf
<chillywilly> nick-a
<dneighbo>                Non-free packages installed on wright
<dneighbo> musixtex                  Typeset music scores with TeX
<dneighbo> musixtex-doc              MusiXTeX PostScript Manual (A4, 300dpi)
<dneighbo> are only non free packages
<dtm> chillywilly: that would require having x11 which is massive storage  :/
<dneighbo> i didnt know they were non free either until now :)
<chillywilly> you better get that shit outta there
<dtm> chillywilly: and not very integrated with my Quartz related apps
<chillywilly> you using prop. MacOS eh?
<chillywilly> bad dtm
<dtm> chillywilly: well i dunno, maybe i can get Mozilla for os10 to pass mime types to xpdf
<dtm> chillywilly: doesn't matter -- it's not like i can print from anything but Classic anyhow! ;0
<chillywilly> aaah, OS X
<dtm> ;)
<chillywilly> why are you not running GNU/Linux on that bugger?
<chillywilly> do I have to send the GNU inquisition?
<chillywilly> no one expects the GNU inwuisitiojn
<chillywilly> er, inquisition even
<dtm> chillywilly: because the lack of proper hardware support for this super-elegant state of the art piece of machinery, would put me to shame.  so i run YDL on my 8500.
<dtm> and i use vnc to it
<chillywilly> dneighbo: 
<dtm> i run half my stuff on os10 and half on ydl
<chillywilly> danielb@obfuscation:~$ vrms
<chillywilly> No non-free packages installed on obfuscation! rms would be proud. 
<dtm> i split tasks down the middle, even
<dtm> chillywilly: hahaha
<chillywilly> booyah
<dtm> chillywilly: you should email him,!;)
<chillywilly> why?
<dtm> chillywilly: so you can lick his bootz
<nickr> er
<chillywilly> dtm: ummm, burn in hell infidel
<dtm> hah
<dneighbo> dtm mostly doesnt wear shoes, so this would be licking his feet
<dneighbo> albeit he is a good guy, you have it on good authority you do not want to lick his feet
<dtm> dneighbo: :-o
<dtm> dneighbo: agreed
<dtm> so very agreed
<nickr> gross
<nickr> such good authority only comes from personal experience.
<chillywilly> rhis isn't about RMS worship
<dneighbo> nickr or speaking with someone who had close encounters :)
<chillywilly> I don't care of he is 'proud'
<dtm> chillywilly: i know :)
<dtm> chillywilly: i was halfway joking
<dtm> but just halfway
<chillywilly> dtm: then why you gotta start some shit eh?
<dtm> lol
<nickr> wow
<chillywilly> you freaking cock smoker
<nickr>                Non-free packages installed on balam
<nickr> blender                   Very fast and versatile 3D modeller/renderer
<nickr> lha                       lzh archiver
<nickr> very short list
<dtm> nickr: hehe
<chillywilly> nickr: you know what you have to do
<dtm> nickr: blender's ok ; there is no free equivalent afaik
<chillywilly> get that shiznit outta there
<dneighbo> im just glad to see apache-oral-pleasure is free
<nickr> chillywilly: no way man
<dtm> nickr: of course, lha has to go.
<dneighbo> i thougth for sure it had some prop snafu :)
<dtm> dneighbo: what's this?  oral pleasure?
<nickr> I need lha to download mod files. :(
<dneighbo> dtm read last nights logs
<chillywilly> nickr: bah
<dtm> nickr: oh well then you're da man
<dtm> nickr: keep the lha
<chillywilly> easiest thing is
<dtm> nickr: that's bad ass
<nickr> Heh
<chillywilly> remove non-free packages
<chillywilly> then remove non-free section from sources.list
<dtm> nickr: i used to suck those down on my Apple //gs
<nickr> chillywilly: how is that easy when I need to do 3d modeling?
<chillywilly> find some Free software
<chillywilly> damnit
<nickr> chillywilly: how is that easy when I want to download parts of my childhood?
<dtm> nickr: change your personal interests around the availability of idealistically compatible products!  or, simply, roll up your sleeves and write one!
<nickr> bah
<nickr> I could never match the elegence of blender with my limited knowledge.
Action: dtm puts on his white robes and sandles and prepares to trek across the country in protest of the govt salt monopoly
<nickr> the best I can do is pester them to free it
<dneighbo> bbl
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<dtm> nickr: that's because you don't sufficiently value your freedom, you lazy person!  ;)
<nickr> they already went from shareware to gratis.. only a small step away from releasing the source with it
<dtm> nickr: hehehehe
<dtm> nickr: yeah they're awesome
<dtm> nickr: and they already went from irix to linux, for crying out loud :)
<nickr> I get the feeling that they want to, somehow.
<dtm> nickr: they've done a lot
<dtm> nickr: i wonder if it's encumbered
<nickr> it might be.
<chillywilly> dude I swear there was a Free 3d modelling program that was nice
<dtm> haha
<nickr> chillywilly: there aren't any that are usable.
<dtm> nickr: use openoffice instead!!
<nickr> chillywilly: and NONE that have internal video editing
<dtm> nickr: doesn't mozilla or emacs do 3d ?  ;)
<nickr> chillywilly: and NONE that you can write plugins in python for
<dtm> nickr: povray1!
<nickr> povray isn't free
<dtm> hehehe
<nickr> HAH!
<dtm> well then write a free replacement for povray!!!!
<dtm> ;)
<nickr> but it is badass
<dtm> lol
<nickr> dtm: panorama already exists
<nickr> frankly I need a nice 3d modeller thats like Lightwave or 3d Studi,o
<dtm> i'm joking about the ever-closing but ever-changing gap between the ideal vs. the practical, you guys
<dtm> :)
<nickr> and there aren't any aside from blender which are even remotely usable or free
Action: dtm blows chillywilly a kiss
<dtm> lol
<nickr> yea
<nickr> but compare this to the list on my old installation..
<dtm> just like rms says, if we keep doing our thing, one day we _will_ have enough free software.
<nickr> blender                   Very fast and versatile 3D modeller/renderer
<nickr> freefont                  Freeware font selection for X11
<nickr> gimp1.2-nonfree           GIF and TIFF support for the GNU Image Manipulation Pr
<nickr> gs-aladdin                Postscript interpreter with X11 and svgalib preview su
<nickr> jdk1.1                    JDK 1.1.x (Java Development Kit) - Runtime only
<nickr> libforms0.89              The XForms graphical interface widget library
<nickr> navigator-base-475        Navigator base support for version 4.75
<dtm> nickr: heheh
<nickr> navigator-smotif-475      Netscape Navigator 4.75 (static Motif)
<nickr> netscape-base-475         4.75 base support for netscape
<nickr> netscape-java-475         Netscape Java support for version 4.75
<nickr> povray                    Persistence of Vision raytracer
<dtm> yay for mozilla
<nickr> povray-misc               Persistence of Vision raytracer - include files
<nickr> sharefont                 Shareware font selection for X11
<nickr> unrar                     Unarchiver for .rar files
<nickr> unzip                     De-archiver for .zip files
<nickr> xanim                     Plays multimedia files (animations, pictures, and soun
<nickr> eek!
<nickr> yea, galeon has made a huge difference.
<dtm> nickr: what's this?  did you just keep a list of all your nonfree vs. free, for posterity?
<nickr> for me.
<dtm> so how do you deal with .zip now
<nickr> no, this is the list on my other computer which is crufted from a long time ago.
<chillywilly> there's Free versions of zip and unzip now
Action: chillywilly uses them
<dtm> i do have a very tight mix of proprietary vs. open/free software
<nickr> unzip non-US is free
<dtm> where i prefer the open/free anywhere it works
<nickr> appearently
<dtm> and i do so the instant i find it
<chillywilly> BSD licensed
<dtm> like for example i play divx movies on macos10 using Quicktime Player and GPL'd Quicktime components
<dtm> and i run the Aquified Mozilla on os10
<nickr> heh. bleh, macosx
<dtm> and vnc
<chillywilly> gstreamer will rock
Action: chillywilly should download 0.3.3 releae and try the player
<chillywilly> er, release
<dtm> yeah but i'm using the core standards and implementations...  once the free apps mature enough , they'll be using this same core anyway
<chillywilly> dude there's no movies I cannot play
Action: chillywilly uses mplayer
<dtm> but i have a powerbook andi use it for powerbooky things like sleeping, multiple displays (lcd, crt, ntsc) which can't be normally done with linux
<nickr> apple is the epitome of a sleezy, evil company
<dtm> nickr: no it is not.  get over it :)
<nickr> Yes, it is
<chillywilly> sure it is
<dtm> you guys have a fanatical perspective on that
<chillywilly> they even price their shit so poor people cannot buy it
<nickr> I consider them more evil than Microsoft
<dtm> nickr: well then you're nuts!  :)
<dtm> ;)
<dtm> heheh
<nickr> Microsoft is a bumbling evil giant
<dtm> they're not even in the same ballpark
<nickr> Apple is a slick little evil worm
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> the worm in the 'apple'
<chillywilly> ;P
<dtm> they're nothing like that.
<chillywilly> oh please
<dtm> lots of poor people have macs
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<nickr> oh god
<dtm> i've almost always had macs because they hold their value for at least 10 yrs
<nickr> they love that 'hippy' image
<drochaid> you called nickr?
<nickr> but its so fake
<dtm> my house is stocked with > 10yr old macs 
<chillywilly> dtm: you yourself expressed the frustration of tryin to get GNU.Linux running good ontheir hadware and the disfunctionality of apple Linux people
<dtm> nickr: well somehow you've convinced yourself that you know something about apple's culture but you're mistaken
<dtm> chillywilly: yeah and your summary of it is wrong.
<chillywilly> and the fighting you had to do with them
<dtm> chillywilly: it has _NOTHING_ to do with apple hardware
<chillywilly> exactly
<chillywilly> it has to do with their politics
<chillywilly> which is the whole point
<dtm> no it has nothing to do with apple at all; it has to do with having a laptop.
<nickr> dtm: I think I'm correct based on a lifetime of experience with them and the people that use them.
<dtm> which has very advanced features
<chillywilly> bah, lemme go talk to Jeff Carr and see what he thinks of Apple as a company ;)
<dtm> there are a handful of laptops whose free drivers can do all that functionality
<dtm> chillywilly: jeff's not the most objective person on that
<chillywilly> oh so we should only talk to people who did not have to fight tooth and nail with Apple
<dtm> nickr: so does everyone else who has irrational biases
<chillywilly> how objective of us
<dtm> chillywilly: ok well you're in 6 yr old bipolar mode again, so i'm gonna go get some dog food!
<dtm> :)
<chillywilly> nice
<chillywilly> resort to insults
<nickr> dtm: yes, its very easy to dismiss my opinions as irrational bias.
<dtm> chillywilly: that's my attempt to neutralize your stupid insults  :)
Action: chillywilly thinks all prop. software is the 'enemy'
<dtm> chillywilly: that's your basis of communication in generalizing stuff that you dont understnad but which you're convinced you disllike
<nickr> I obviously disagree with chillywilly 
<chillywilly> dtm: when did I insult you in this Apple discussion?
<dtm> chillywilly: that adversarial perspective is what polarizes your perspective
<dtm> chillywilly: and is why you're unable to have clear rational discussions about this type of stuff
<chillywilly> they are conterproductive to our goals
<chillywilly> dtm: wrong
<chillywilly> I can discuss this just fine
<dtm> chillywilly: you insulted a culture i'm loosely associated with and which we all benefit tremendously from.
<dtm> chillywilly: and you made blanketing and negative generalizations about my personal background as applied to your polarized viewpoint
<chillywilly> they're not all evil...in fact they have been doing some good by basing things on OS X
<dtm> regarding my experience with the ppc linux community
<chillywilly> er, freebsd
<chillywilly> wlel I thought that was your point
<chillywilly> when you sadi the things you said
<chillywilly> that Apple has always been a shit to you guys
<dtm> chillywilly: the point is that nobody's perfect and their good far outweighs their bad.  they do have a clear moral imperative to improve in a win/win way.  they have never been the enemy except in _certain_ ways for a period of time when they had idiot leadership like Scully.
<dtm> chillywilly: and even then, that was only _part_ of their culture
<dtm> chillywilly: no, apple has not always been bad to us!  there are negative side effects to the fact that they're a large corp, but almost nothing they do would be possible otherwise.
<dtm> to use a euphemistic cliche it's like a necessary evil
<dtm> not really but one can get the point
<dtm> they have the highest quality, most open standard hardware and software in the industry
<chillywilly> well you think long and hard about how we should treat each other and you tell me if not releasing code basd on profit motives is how people should live
<dtm> it has the lowest TCO and lowest direct price for its value (not always sticker price) of any name brand
<chillywilly> I just don't see it my friend, there has to be a better way
<dtm> if you compare their products directly, feature-per-feature, to the competition, they almost always come out ahead on price, quality, and value
<dtm> chillywilly: if you're going to judge a non-essential minority of the behavior of a global corporation in such a moral way (where morals have no direct application), then another person should get to judge the GNU community based on how they talk and tear each other down and that RMS dresses funny.
<dtm> and that's all wrong
<dtm> none of it is representative of what's really going on
<dtm> they _have_ to withhold some things
<chillywilly> I don't care about 'practicalities', all things break in time all material things become dust after a while
<nickr> chillywilly: thats sort of a defeatist argumest.
<dtm> and tha'ts why your perspecitve is so polarized and adversarial
<dtm> that perspective cannot work
<chillywilly> when I am old and my children look to me all that is ever going to matter is if I loved them
<nickr> chillywilly: by that token we should abandon all this shit. :)
<chillywilly> no, it's the reasons behind it that matter
<chillywilly> not the thing in itself
Action: chillywilly is away: I'm busy
<dtm> a lot of gnu's culture is based on negative reinforcement.  of tearing down or repelling from something else.  that's what provides most moral/ethical motivation in the world  :/
<dtm> fighting.
<dtm> that's just not quite as necessary so often in the information age
<dtm> it's much more flexible now
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<dtm> i know that people who haven't worked extensively in a corporate environment, or who haven't set one up themselves, dont appreciate the extreme hard nosed practicality which is often required
<dtm> otoh  having a severe crippling (as opposed to simple compromising) of one's values should be an indication of failure
<dtm> i think temporary (even long term) compromise is good
<dtm> depending on the particular issue, ramifications, and alternatives
<dtm> well i'm sorry that anyone's feelings were hurt today   :}   i gotsta gits some dogfewd
<dtm> bbl
<drochaid> dogfood, mmmmmm :)
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:19:25)
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Action: chillywilly is also sorry for being a bit 'crazy'
<chillywilly> btw, I always like the phrase "a means to an end, not an end in itself"
Action: drochaid thought it was mike that was crazy
<drochaid> <cough> sorry ;)
<chillywilly> heh, why do you think we get along so well?
<chillywilly> we're both certifiable
<drochaid> lol
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<jamest> ahhhhh, maybe I'll actually get some gnue done tonight
<jcater> nah
<jcater> wishful thinking, I'm sure
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<chillywilly> sup
Action: chillywilly troutslaps jcater
<nickr> C++ sucks!!
<nickr> </troll>
<jcater> nickr: we refer to chilly as c++ now?
<nickr> jcater: Yes.
<nickr> jcater: or `Mr. C++'
<jcater> I like chillydawg
<chillywilly> you do?
<chillywilly> hey dud you guys see that we got 2 talkbacks on linuxtoday aboutvt he KC?
<chillywilly> er, did
<nickr> yes?
<nickr> I didn't
<chillywilly> someone was asking if snyone used gnue in a serious environment
<jcater> I use it at work
<jcater> but I'm not sure if that's serious or comedic
<jcater> ;)
<chillywilly> and then someone said that they thought not because of our comment on compatibility
<chillywilly> why am I mr. c++?
Action: chillywilly is starting to dislike c++
<nickr> chillywilly: because your namesake sucks balls. Just like you.
<nickr> heh.
<nickr> good boy
<chillywilly> shutup
<nickr> maybe someone should respond to that talkback
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'm trying
<chillywilly> you cock smoker you
<jcater> but can't figure out their damn site
<nickr> jcater: cilkc 'respond'
<nickr> er, 'Reply'
<chillywilly> nickr: "fuck you ya fucking square"
<nickr> chillywilly: alright panty-waist, time for your pachouli stinking ass to get a kicking
<jamest> lol
<chillywilly> "look at these morose mutha fuckas"
<jamest> we make linuxtoday?
<chillywilly> dude
<chillywilly> EVERY KC has been on LT
<chillywilly> where you been at dawg/.
<chillywilly> ?
<nickr> hehe
Action: jcater is responding
<chillywilly> cool ;)
<dtm> )@#*%!
<jamest> cool, then we know he hasn't crashed
<jamest> ping jcater.kk.com
<chillywilly> jersey represent
<dtm> I WANT A CHILI DOG
<chillywilly> go get one then
<chillywilly> freak
<dtm> did somebody say they had chilidogs?
<derek> what is the topic
<nickr> dtm: thats exactly what I thought
<chillywilly> stop bicthing on IRC
<derek> other than chillywilly sucks :)
<dtm> ?!
<chillywilly> and get of yo ass
<dtm> nickr: yeah
<derek> re: talkback
<dtm> !(@%
<nickr> derek: is there any other topic?
<dtm> someone's talking about gnue somewhere in public?  other than in here?
<dtm> let's kick their asses!
<derek> where?
<chillywilly> they have been doing it since like forever
<derek> hey talking crap about gnue is like eating pizza
<dtm> on linuxtoday?
<dtm> derek: hehehe
<derek> if im not involved its not allowed
<chillywilly> every KC makes its way to linuxtoday
<dtm> derek: HAHA
<dtm> what's "KC"
<chillywilly> Kernel Cousin
<chillywilly> what psu does for us
<chillywilly> (summary)
<dtm> ok i dont know what Kernel Cousin is
<dtm> i've heard of it
<dtm> derek doesn't like responding to my emails
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<nickr> I want to eat pizza
<chillywilly> derek is a lazt bastard
<dtm> I WANT PIZZA AND CHILI DGOS
Action: dtm gots his dogfood
<chillywilly> sup my niiiiiiiggggggaaa!
<nickr> I want chili dog pizza
<derek> nickr: you of all people CAN not have pizza
<derek> as you are in location you can actually get GOOD pizza
<dtm> derek: :(
<chillywilly> crazymike: whaddup foo
<nickr> derek: heheh.
<dtm> derek: we have much good pizza in the vicinity
<derek> btw: hi scott
<derek> dtm i havent really responded to any email for a week or so
<nickr> derek: except that I don't have the money for good pizza, much less bad pizza
<dtm> derek: and pizzahut.com does online ordering in select metropolitan areas
<chillywilly> who the hell is scott?
<Scott> derek: hi derek.
<dtm> derek: oh, so you're taking it out on _everyone_ huh?  :)
<derek> dtm: new york is only place to get ral pizza
<derek> er real
<chillywilly> oh
<dtm> derek: just because you hate _ME_ so much
<chillywilly> Scott: sorry didn't see you there
<dtm> derek: well that's why we have a restaurant callled New York Pizza
<Scott> chillywilly: someone interested in gnuenterprise but with little time for it :)
<nickr> I bet that 'much less' syntax confuses new englishd speakers
<dtm> derek: it's run by new yorkaz
<Scott> chillywilly: no harm taken.
<derek> im an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY non responder
<dtm> nickr: hehe
<chillywilly> lol
<dtm> derek: hehhe
<dtm> I JUST DEPOSITED THE FIRST PAYCHECK FROM MY BIDNESS.
<dtm> $360 US
<nickr> I find a lot of english syntax confusing
<nickr> too bad I'm so good at it.
<dtm> which was good because i've been at $-160 balance in my checking acct for liek 2mo
<nickr> Its more fun to speak broken english like a non-native speaker though.
<derek> hmmm told im toast if i dont get printer working tonight
<derek> :)
<dtm> have you muh-fukkaz ever been sent to collections over a checking account ?!?
<nickr> derek: is there some sort of payout?
<dtm> derek: what a coincidence; same here
<dtm> derek: and the scanner!
<chillywilly> nickr: "what are you bitched babbling about"
<dtm> derek: which printer ya got?
<chillywilly> er, bicthes
<dtm> derek: i hope it's an epson or HP
<nickr> my scanner works.
<nickr> scanners are easy as pah.
<dtm> i hope my scanner works in macos classic
<chillywilly> dude I should just watch jay and silent bob again
<dtm> nickr: hehe
<chillywilly> it's da mad notes!
<dtm> i've never seen scanning done on linux ; have you guys?
<nickr> of couse I'm all scsi so it was very, very easy
<chillywilly> SANE
<nickr> dtm: constantly
<dtm> nickr: i'm all usb
<chillywilly> you cock smoker
<crazymike> hi youse guys
<chillywilly> lol
<nickr> many usb scanners work too I hear.
<chillywilly> sup niggie
<dtm> uh oh   it's mike   and..  he's..  he's CRAZY.
<dtm> nickr: what app do you use for scanning?  SANE?
<nickr> crazymike: eh! 'atsa matta wit yous?
<crazymike> lol
<chillywilly> 'atsa matta fa you nickr
<nickr> dtm: I use sane from within gimp. Its ultaslick.
<nickr> ultraslick.
<crazymike> fowgetabowtit
<chillywilly> hehe
<dtm> nickr: gimp is all about scanning and printing now, huh?  although it's beyond me why they put printer drivers IN gimp
<dtm> nickr: as opposed to the printing subsystem
<chillywilly> this channel is bumpin'
<dtm> nickr: i.e. gimp-print
<nickr> An incredible number of people from Brooklyn live on Staten Island
<crazymike> chillywilly: how do I register this fucking name and stuff
<chillywilly> gimp-print is the shiznit
<dtm> nickr: i dont fully understand the open source printing scene
<chillywilly> crazymike: nick?
<crazymike> or where can I find the help shit for it
<crazymike> yeah
<dtm> crazymike: /msg nickserv help
<chillywilly>  /msg nicerv help
<dtm> @!#(_
<crazymike> thats guys
<chillywilly> erm nickserv
<dtm> EXCEPT SPELLED RIGH.T
<crazymike> lol
<chillywilly> dtm: blow me
<chillywilly> dtm: you mean RIGHT
<jcater> hey, guys
<jcater> is this a good response?
<jcater> ------------------
<jcater> There are in effect two different projects at work here. The first one is a database-backed application framework. Several of us are using the Forms and Designer components in a production (or commercial) environment in 2-tier mode (i.e., the client talks directly to the database and doesn't delegate any logic to an application server middleware). The Application Server (GEAS) is being reworked and is not, to my knowledge, used in
<jcater> ction environment. When you see comments about not preserving backwards compatability, they are referring to GEAS. 
<jcater> The second part, actual business applications (such as financials, supply chain management, etc) are still in the planning stages and are awaiting a working application server. 
<chillywilly> dtm: listen to your own advice
<jcater> So, to answer your question, yes, parts of it are being used in production. I use custom forms (designed inhouse) that connect to my Oracle database to run parts of our callcenter and warehouse. 
<jcater> Come check us out.
<jcater> ------------------
<nickr> dtm: Its not unified under any standard yet. The only real defacto standards are producing postscript and gfiving it to lpr
<crazymike> woohoo, I am registered now
<Scott> derek: in answer to your question, I'm this guy: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7A34FADE
<nickr> dtm: lots of things provide boths sides of that interface
<chillywilly> jcater: nice response sir
<jamest> jcater: works for me
<nickr> jcater: sounds pretty good.
<chillywilly> you forgot
<chillywilly> fod
<chillywilly> (fuck off and die)
<nickr> gimme power over people in a palace with a perminant guard
<dtm> uh oh   if there was a linuxtoday article about gnue today, then we'd better behave ourselves
<dtm> someone might be watching
<chillywilly> eh
<jamest> sigh
<chillywilly> psu knows what to edit out
<jamest> looks like we'd better ban most the losers that hang out here
<jamest> including ourselves
<Scott> jamest: specially ourselves
<jamest> don't want to give the wrong impression
<chillywilly> hellz yea
Action: chillywilly refereshes the talkbacks
<chillywilly> damnit
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<chillywilly> I hate keyboards
<derek> i submitted two responses as well
<jamest> ok, whos first
<jamest> :)
<nickr> ring the bells, tell everyone, revolution can be fun
<derek> though for clarification ( i suppose we should document this better)
<chillywilly> hmmm, no jcater response yet
<derek> gnue is three things :)
<jcater> chillywilly: comment on what?
<derek> 1. a gnu meta package bundling gnu project packages that are enterprise related
<chillywilly> duh, LT
<jamest> 1) a time sink
<derek> 2. an application framework
<derek> 3. applications built using the framework 
<jamest> 2) slower than a lethargic sloth on nitol
<chillywilly> 1)  a place for masochistic trout lovers
<nickr> derek: is there a whatis section on the wesite?
<derek> Scott: yuo are public key?
<chillywilly> 2) a place for hot goats sex
<derek> ;)
<jamest> 3) responcible for shaving a full 10 years off my life
<chillywilly> 3) the beasting are free
<chillywilly> er, beatings
<jcater> chillywilly: it has to go thru moderation first
<chillywilly> uhuh
<Scott> derek: it's the best I can tell you :)
<jcater> jamest: only 10?
<jcater> I feel shorted then
<jamest> only 10
<jamest> for now
Action: nickr adds shave more years off jamest's life to his todo list.
<derek> nickr: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=24
<derek> What is GNUe?
<jamest> anyone feel like I should not commit the new interbase driver patches from Bajusz Tamás
<derek> is first thing on the left corner of the webpage
<derek> jamest: we have assignment?
<nickr> ...
Action: chillywilly adds troutslap() to the geas v2 api
<nickr> maybe that should be right in the middle on the frontpage
<jamest> we have submitted paperwork
<derek> nickr: if only the 'blink' tag wasnt banned
<derek>  :)
<jamest> but no completed assignment
<nickr> <span style="font-size: 10em">Eh! What the frig is this shit?</span>
<jamest> the entire file after patching is 257 lines of code
<derek> its segregated enough i dont see a problem
<derek> if for some reason the paperwork never comes we simply remove the code
<jamest> and it now adds interbase support for forms and designer
<jamest> Bajusz Tamás wants to become a gnue developer
<nickr> 10em font would be like half a screen high or so.
<jamest> wants to become a gnue developer
<chillywilly> troutslap() - use this function when people get out of line in #gnuenterprise or when you really need to get your point accross
<jamest> and work on reports
<nickr> chillywilly: dude, thats so lame.
<jamest> so he has started the paperwork trail
<chillywilly> nickr: like your mother
<jcater> Q: What is GNUe
<chillywilly> anyway....
<nickr> chillywilly: my mother is lame, whats your point?
<jcater> A: You don't know? well, hell, now we'll never find out
<jamest> jcater: :)
<nickr> chillywilly: she can't help it that she broke her leg when she leaped from the car she was kidnapped in
<chillywilly> nickr: uh, that too much information
<jamest> wow
<jamest> a GNUe commit
<chillywilly> nickr: why do you constantly redicule me?  you sick fuck
<jcater> wow
<jcater> cool 
<jcater> it;s been a week or so
<jamest> lets hope the cogs aren't to rusty and she makes it thru
<nickr> chillywilly: because you're an easy target
<Scott> 1 question, how easy is to make a test install of gnue tech?
<Scott> right now :)
<chillywilly> nickr: I just think your pissed off because I told you i don;t swing that way
<chillywilly> you cock smoker
<jamest> what platform
<jamest> ?
<jamest> Scott: what platform?
<nickr> chillywilly: but my sister is very attractive, you should go for her. I know you only like little boys.. I was just trying to help you out.
<Scott> jamest: intel, redhat gnu/linux
<Scott> 7.2
<jamest> you ok w/ CVS code?
Nick change: crazymike -> crazymike_away
<Scott> jamest: I am experienced with cvs.
<jamest> I'd d/l the latest cvs then in the top level dir run a 
<nickr> still no talkback
<Scott> jamest: it's just that I don't have a lot of time right now, so I wanted to give it a test run :)
<Scott> jamest: ok :)
<jamest> python setup-cvs.py
<chillywilly> nickr: let's see....you're single, you live in NY, you watch broadway plays....who's the homo?
<jamest> that will setup a developers install
<Scott> jamest: ok.
<jamest> we're still a bit of a bugger as far as dependencies :(
<jamest> and IIRC there was a RH 7.2 how to posted to the site a while back
<nickr> chillywilly: thats harsh man.
<jcater> dang
<jcater> 5 feedbacks now
<nickr> chillywilly: I mean, my gf left *yesterday*
<Scott> jamest: is it safe to use python 1.5.x?
<nickr> stone cold.
<jamest> Scott: nope
<Scott> jamest: probably. I just looked around the faq (and the neat top 10 questions)
<chillywilly> who the heck is rufus?
<jamest> 1.5.x isn't supported , we had too many things that were causing troubles in 1.5.2 so we jumped to 2.0 thinking the distros would be there by the time we were ready
<nickr> the guy from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure?
<Scott> jamest: that's worse. because of security on workplace we try very hard to avoid installing software that isn't signed by a known somewhat trusted key)
<Scott> jamest: rh8 will include it I think.
<jcater> Scott: python 2.0 is on the RedHat 7.x CDs
<jamest> I don't think anyone would trust us though
<jcater> it may not be installed by default
<jcater> but it is an option
<Scott> jcater: it is? I didn't notice. there's not many things I run that use python...
<Scott> jcater: that's good news.
<jamest> but people need to realize that derek is our only target of agression
<jcater> I no longer use RedHat
<Scott> jcater: that way, the risk will only be on gnue :)
<jcater> but I did use 7.1 and it was included
<jcater> gnue? risk? nah
<jcater> <snicker>
<jamest> so all the rm -rf commands embedded in it are keyed to username derek and an IP address that can be traced back to the state of AZ
<Scott> jcater: well, if debian would sign packages with keys  I could trust... 
<jcater> eh?
<jcater> well, to each his own...
<jcater> we need testers for all distros :)
<Scott> jcater: heh :)
<derek> funny exchange
<derek> ================
<derek> <chillywilly> you cock smoker
<derek> <jamest> what platform
<derek> ==================
<nickr> heh
<derek> Scott: i suggest you look at openBSD
<derek> its MUCH more secure than redhat or even debian
<jamest> gack!
Action: jcater rubs his eyes
<jamest> it's also a platform we don't have any testing on!
Action: derek assumed it was a security thing wanting things 'signed'
Action: jamest runs and hides
<derek> jamest: shhh its my evil ploy to get an openBSD tester
<Scott> derek: if I have to change from GNU/Linux, it will only be to GNU/Hurd.
<jcater> jamest: well, I have an openbsd firewall
<jcater> but I don't really want to test stuff on it
<jcater> ;)
Action: derek puts on his trout armor
Action: jamest doesn't want more bug reports 
<derek> jamest be glad
<derek> im training my office on the spirit of free software
<derek> and so i have started submiting bug reports on ALL software i use
<derek> not just gnue ;)
<derek> poor mozilla bastards got a lot of mail today via bugzilla ;)
<jcater> but, but, but
Action: jamest runs faster
<jamest> 2 commits
<jamest> thank you Bajusz Tamás
<jcater> ToyMan_: you around?
<jcater> I just saw your comments about Zope + GNUe
<jcater> what do you have in mind?
<jcater> as I am doing an account maintenance center at the office in Zope
<jcater> and plan to tie it to GNUe when the time is right
<jamest> i too am using gnue/zope at work
<derek> sigh
<jcater> sigh?
<derek> we really shoudl just consider using zope as our appserver it seems
<jamest> i wouldn't 
<nickr> No
<jcater> I wouldn't either
<jamest> it's not even close
<derek> im being feticious
<jcater> where did that come from?
<nickr> zope is too web oriented as you said before
Action: derek is not a zope fan
<derek> not from a technology point of view
<jcater> feticious?
<jcater> does feticious derive from fetus or fetish?
<derek> but from i trust digital creations w/ python as much as i trust sun with java
<nickr> I think he meant fecicious
Action: jcater was teasing him :)
<derek> damn typos
Action: derek glares at jamest
<nickr> twisted looks cool though.
<nickr> i think I already said that.
<derek> facetious is what i meant
<nickr> geas should be in ObjC using our own base class library modelled after python.
<nickr> thats the one.
<jcater> lol
<jcater> I assumed you meant fecicious as well
<nickr> I just can't spel.
<jcater> we no
Action: Scott grins... you're nuts :)
Action: Scott is off to compile abiword to see if his changes to the rpm spec went fine. Then much desired sleep.
Action: Scott waves bye
<Scott> in the mean time, good luck with gnue :) if I can manage some spare time, I'll try to help.
<jcater> cool
<jcater> rest well
<Scott> thanks. bbye
Scott (Scott@213.22.64.87) left irc: "Bye Bye"
<jcater> sigh
Action: jcater runs to the pantry to find the tequila
<derek> hey in printtool
<derek> for remote printer
<derek> what do you put in remote queue?
<derek> is that the name of the queue on the server?
<nickr> derek: the lp protocol defines symbolic names for each printer
<jamest> derek: yes
<nickr> derek: if the remote printer is a standard lp, the default spool name is 'lp'
<derek> on the server i have Names (in printtool) as lp
<derek> cool
<jamest> nickr: don't give him too much info, if he gets everything working he'll start submitting bug reports again
<nickr> hehe
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> I'm going to go ahead and commit the currently broken nstti interface to forms
<jcater> cool
<jamest> as it'll be April before I can touch again
<jcater> dang
<jamest> not cool
<chillywilly> hey did scott say he would run GNU/Hurd?
<jcater> yip
<chillywilly> rock on!
<nickr> chillywilly: yea, but it seems unlikely anyway since it uses the debian package infrastructure
<jcater> rofl
<nickr> which he clearly has problems with
<chillywilly> wjhat?
<chillywilly> debs kick arse
<nickr> he claims they aren't signed by keys 'he can trust'
Action: chillywilly knows that crazymike_away is wathcing gilmore girls like a little bitch
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> that's lame
<chillywilly> don't you have ot have someone that can physically see you sign your key?
<nickr> chillywilly: ye
<nickr> yes
<nickr> and everything in the archive has signed md5 sums
<nickr> but anyway
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<jcater> uh, oh
<laurie> hey jamest jcater i will send you mail
<jcater> better run derek
<laurie> arturas has been jamming on i18n
<jamest> laurie: ok
<chillywilly> hi laurie
<jcater> laurie: ok, but should we not tell derek?
<chillywilly> I mean
<chillywilly> mrs. masta
<laurie> i think his conclusion is he has patch that makes it work with our parser
<laurie> BUT
<laurie> wxWindows doesnt support unicode (and he hit same python bug i think we did)
<jamest> damn, she seems to have a better gasp of things than derek
<chillywilly> rofl
Nick change: laurie -> dneighbo
<jamest> damn
<jamest> it was too good to be true
<chillywilly> bah!
<dneighbo> ok anyone willing to help me with remote printing?
<chillywilly> fooled by the masta!
<dneighbo> i can print from the server ok
<nickr> dneighbo: yea
<dneighbo> i configure the remote and it seems to queue it up
<nickr> dneighbo: what print server is the server running?
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/laurie# lpq
<dneighbo> aegagrus: waiting for queue to be enabled on 192.168.100.90
<dneighbo> Rank   Owner      Job  Files                                 Total Size
<dneighbo> 1st    root       0     ...                                  627 bytes
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/laurie# 
<dneighbo> nickr: basically i used printtool to configure my printer on a debian (sid) box
<chillywilly> hey guys
<dneighbo> and i can print test pages on that machine
<dneighbo> now using printtool on a server here
<chillywilly> I juts registered #debian-support
<nickr> dneighbo: er
<chillywilly> er, just
<dneighbo> and point it to remote queue there
<jcater> dneighbo: you may need to add aegagrys to your /etc/hosts.lpd
<nickr> dneighbo: so you're using lpr?
<nickr> dneighbo: bsd-lpd rather
<dneighbo> nickr: im just doing what jamest told me :)
<nickr> I can be of no help if you're doing that.
<jamest> um
<jamest> bsd-lpd?
<nickr> that'd be the 'standard' lpd
<nickr> aka lprng
<nickr> I believe.
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# less hosts.lpd
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.70
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.40
<dneighbo> hosts.lpd (END) 
<jamest> lprng is it's own package...i use it at work
<dneighbo> is the contents of hosts.lpd
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<nickr> cups is much easier than all this.
<jcater> cups?
<jcater> ick
<nickr> cups is awesome.
<nickr> but anyway.
chillywilly (danielb@d57.as8.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: chillywilly_!~danielb@d182.as27.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net))
<dneighbo> aegagrus: waiting for queue to be enabled on 192.168.100.90
<dneighbo> Rank   Owner      Job  Files                                 Total Size
<dneighbo> 1st    root       0     ...                                  627 bytes
<dneighbo> carpine: /usr/sbin/lpd: lp: Your host does not have line printer access
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/laurie# 
<chillywilly_> cups rulez
<dneighbo> i added it to my hosts file
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<dneighbo> and now i get this new line about
<dneighbo> Your host does not have line printer access
<dneighbo> how do i give it access?
<jamest> that is what hosts.lpd is for
<chillywilly> jcater: what's wrong with cups?
<jamest> I'd try and /etc/init.d/lpd restart on the server
<jcater> does lpd run thru tcpwrappers these days?
<jamest> checked in the nstti stuff
<dtm> here's a funny quote: "For those concerned about the virality of the GPL, a suggestion: Write Your Own Damn Code."
Action: jcater forgets
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# less hosts.lpd
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.70 latitude
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.40 aegagrus
<dneighbo> hosts.lpd (END) 
<jcater> ah
<jcater> dude
<dneighbo> is now in hosts.lpd
<dneighbo> but still no dice
<jcater> that's not the same format as hosts
<jcater> you only need the ip addresses
<dneighbo> i had only ip address
<jcater> not the "x.x.x.x name" format
<dneighbo> and it wasnt working
<dneighbo> so i added the name
<jcater> hmm
<jamest> but now it's blocking at hosts.lpd
<jcater> have you checked the /var/log files on the server?
<jamest> instead of elsewhere
<jamest> i'd put it back
<dneighbo> how do you delete a job again?
<jamest> lprm
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# /etc/init.d/lpd restart
<dneighbo> Stopping printer spooler: lpd not running.
<dneighbo> Starting printer spooler: lpd.
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# 
<jamest> ps aux | grep lp
<dneighbo> but still that didnt get the job going through
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# ps ax |grep lp
<dneighbo>  9017 ?        S      0:00 /usr/sbin/lpd
<dneighbo> 10891 pts/0    S      0:00 grep lp
<dneighbo> carpine:/etc# 
<dneighbo> going to resubmit a job
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/laurie# lpq
<jamest> who needs pcanywhere or vnc
<dneighbo> carpine: /usr/sbin/lpd: lp: Your host does not have line printer access
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/laurie# 
<dneighbo> hmm just doing a lpq gives me that
<jamest> we've got dnanywhere
<jamest> did you change the server hosts.lpd back?
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# less lp-
<dneighbo> lp-acct       lp-acct.3.gz  lp-errs       lp-errs.3.gz  
<dneighbo> lp-acct.0     lp-acct.4.gz  lp-errs.0     lp-errs.4.gz  
<dneighbo> lp-acct.1.gz  lp-acct.5.gz  lp-errs.1.gz  lp-errs.5.gz  
<dneighbo> lp-acct.2.gz  lp-acct.6.gz  lp-errs.2.gz  lp-errs.6.gz  
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# less lp-acct
<dneighbo> all these are blank
<dneighbo> are they the printer logs?
<dneighbo> um yes hosts.lpd is back
<jamest> acct is accounting info
<jamest> errs are errors
<jamest> probably all empty on your system
<jamest> on the server
<jamest>   restart lpd
<jamest> then lpc
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# less /etc/hosts.lpd
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.70
<dneighbo> 192.168.100.40 
<dneighbo> /etc/hosts.lpd (END) 
<chillywilly> hey take this shit over to #debian-support
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# /etc/init.d/lpd restart
<dneighbo> Stopping printer spooler: lpd not running.
<dneighbo> Starting printer spooler: lpd.
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# lpc
<dneighbo> lpc> 
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> this is why I use lprng :)
<jamest> ok
<dneighbo> then why did you tell me to use lpd :)
<jamest> do a 
<jamest> status lp
<dneighbo> i will use what ever is EASIEST
<nickr> cups is the easiest.
<jamest> (IIRC I told you to use printtool :)
<chillywilly> cups has a nice web confgi program
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/log# lpc
<dneighbo> lpc> status lp
<dneighbo> lp:
<dneighbo> 	queuing is enabled
<dneighbo> 	printing is enabled
<dneighbo> 	no entries
<dneighbo> 	no daemon present
<dneighbo> lpc> 
<jamest> lprng is not easiest
<dneighbo> i am using printtool
<chillywilly> er, config
<chillywilly> gah
<chillywilly> that's for deadcat
<jamest> i wonder if you queue dir doesn't exist
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> i hate to do this
<jamest> but I have to run
<dneighbo> what is no daemon present ?
<dneighbo> nickr......
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201072.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> is cups relatively simple or could you walk me through it?
<nickr> its web based
<nickr> the config
<chillywilly> you go to
<chillywilly> http://localhost:136/
<dneighbo> hmmm i dont think these boxes have web servers
<jcater> dneighbo: what does your carpine printcap look like
<chillywilly> and use the config program
<chillywilly> it's easy
<dneighbo> jcater: where is printcap at?
<chillywilly> dneighbo: you don;t need one
<nickr> dneighbo: it doesn't use a server, it has a little servelet which is part of the IPP
<jcater> /etc/printcap
<chillywilly> just a browser
<chillywilly> the daemon wait on that port for you to connect to it
<chillywilly> er, waits
<dneighbo> lp:\
<dneighbo>         :sd=/var/spool/lpd/lp:\
<dneighbo>         :mx#0:\
<dneighbo>         :sh:\
<dneighbo>         :lp=/dev/lp0:\
<dneighbo>         :if=/var/spool/lpd/lp/filter:\
<dneighbo>         :PAPERSIZE=letter:\
<dneighbo>         :DESIRED_TO=ps:\
<dneighbo>         :PRINTER_TYPE=LOCAL:\
<dneighbo>         :ASCII_TO_PS=YES:\
<dneighbo>         :GSDEVICE=uniprint:\
<dneighbo>         :RESOLUTION=NAxNA:\
<dneighbo>         :COLOR=cdj550:\
<dneighbo>         :PS_SEND_EOF=NO:\
<dneighbo>         :NUP=1:\
<dneighbo>         :RTLFTMAR=18:\
<dneighbo>         :TOPBOTMAR=18:\
<dneighbo>         :TEXT_SEND_EOF=YES:
<jcater> does the directory /var/spool/lpd/lp/ exist?
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/spool/lpd/lp# ls
<dneighbo> filter	lock  status
<dneighbo> carpine:/var/spool/lpd/lp# 
<chillywilly> why don't you guys take this over to out new support channel
<dneighbo> this is on the server
<chillywilly> damnit
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> are you sure your not using lprng?
<dneighbo> how do i tell?
<dneighbo> jamest told me to apt-get printtool and run it
<jcater> dpkg --list|grep lp
<dneighbo> i did that, and i could print on server
<dneighbo> he then said do same for client only use remote queue
<dneighbo> i did that and cant make it work :)
<dneighbo> rc  lpr            2000.05.07-4   BSD lpr/lpd line printer spooling system
<dneighbo> ii  lpr-ppd        0.72-2         BSD lpr/lpd line printer spooling system
<dneighbo> ii  printfilters-p 2.12-2         filters from the GNUlpr printing system
<dneighbo> on server
<chillywilly> printtool ig gay
<chillywilly> s/ig/is
<jcater> chillywilly: sigh
<nickr> ah lpr-ppd
<jcater> either be helpful or butt out
<jcater> ;)
<dneighbo> ii  libprintsys    0.5-1.1        printcap parser, helper for gnulpr's printfi
<dneighbo> ii  lpr-ppd        0.72-2         BSD lpr/lpd line printer spooling system
<dneighbo> is on the client
<chillywilly> jcater: apt-get install cupsys
<chillywilly> biotch
<dneighbo> chillywilly: please let them help me
<chillywilly> is that helpful enough for you punk?
<nickr> you want cupsys-bsd too
<dneighbo> jcater: was that useful information
<dneighbo> what is rc
<jcater> yes
<dneighbo> in the dpkg list?
<jcater> removed iirc
<dneighbo> ah
<chillywilly> dneighbo: it's nice to know that you have confidence in *certain* ppl
<dneighbo> chillywilly: im HALF WAY IN SOMETHING
<dneighbo> if three weeks ago when i started you would have said lets do CUPS
<dneighbo> i would have
<chillywilly> I don't care
<nickr> I did say that
<dneighbo> jamest was the one willing to help then so i have started down this path
<nickr> when you first asked , I was like, use cups man its easy
<dneighbo> nickr: key was you said
<dneighbo> use cups its easy
<dneighbo> jamest said
<dneighbo> use printtool its easy and ill help
<dneighbo> ;)
<chillywilly> sheesh
<dneighbo> im willing to switch to cups if someone will help
<chillywilly> fuck this
<nickr> Heh, well you should know by this time the 'ill help' is implicit to my suggestion.
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<dneighbo> nickr: at that time i wasnt aware of that :)
<dneighbo> after tolerating me during getting X working i now know that :)
<nickr> Heh.
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<dneighbo> hi ithompson
<dneighbo> btw: i abused master/detail designer today and it appears to work pretty well
<dneighbo> i think that perhaps prequery="" is broked though
<ithompson> what's up group
<ithompson> dneighbor included
<dneighbo> fighthing printer woes
Nick change: crazymike_away -> crazymike
<jcater> crazymike: how were the gilmore girls?
<crazymike> ???
<jcater> :)
<jcater> nevermind
<crazymike> It was a re-rub
<jcater> chillywilly said you were off to watcht he gg's
<crazymike> re run
<crazymike> kind of, my g/f was here
<crazymike> :)
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<dtm> *#@)
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#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by devlin.openprojects.net
<chillywilly> well, I would never do that
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> plus I could whip mike's ass in a heart beat
Action: jcater doesn't wanna picture chillywilly + anyone's ass and whipping
<chillywilly> sure
<chillywilly> whatever
<chillywilly> you just need to come out of the closet
<jcater> my house is small
<jcater> but bigger than a closet
<dneighbo> rofl
<dtm> ok just because you guys are being so nutty, i'm going to reboot to macos9 to scan some pictures!!
<dneighbo> since i dont have vt's working (sigh) i will be back in a minute need to logout off as wife so i can get me email. :)
<dtm> now, see what you've gone and done?!
<chillywilly> dtm: evil
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<dtm> dneighbo: that's why you have a multiuser OS, isn't it?
<dtm> so that you dont absolutely require vt's
<dtm> chillywilly: quite
<chillywilly> use SANE and set it up under a Free OS
<dtm> chillywilly: i'll be resarching SANE later
<chillywilly> cool
<dtm> first i'll do the printer which is more critical
<dtm> and which is allegedly supported by gimp-print
<chillywilly> what kinda printer?
<dtm> allegedly at quality higher than that of the proprietary macos/windows drivers from Epson
<dtm> epson stylus 580
Action: chillywilly setup a usb hp deskjet 932c the other day
<dtm> (@#*
<jcater> how does linux do w/usb digital cameras?
<chillywilly> using cups of course ;)
<chillywilly> I dunno
<dtm> jcater: it does pretty well, thanks to usb
<dtm> macos10 can pretty much use any digital camera with no device specific drivers, so that's encouraging
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<dneighbo> hey chilly if you do an 
<dneighbo> apt-get update
<dneighbo> apt-get upgrade
<dneighbo> is there an easy way to see change log of packages that upgraded?
<dneighbo> i see a new syphleed and am curious as to what new features are there :)
<chillywilly> not unless you download it, but why can't you just go to their site and view the relase notes
<chillywilly> (and install it)
<jcater> what sylpheed do you have now?
<dneighbo> i upgraded it
<chillywilly> ooooh
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> but am going to site to read changelog
<jcater> as the 0.7.2 release fixes several quirks
<dneighbo> just curious if there was easy wasy to tel
<jcater> but no biggie new features
<chillywilly> I tried sylpheed once
<chillywilly> I didn't like it much though
<dneighbo> um apt just upgraded me to 0.7.4
<chillywilly> I forget why
Action: jcater luvs it
<dneighbo> you behind the times jcater :)
<jcater> damn
<jcater> I upgraded 2 weeks ago
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> debian changes like every day
<jcater> no, dude
<dneighbo>     *  The bug in POP3 that lost UIDL information if any error occured before issuing UIDL command was fixed.
<dneighbo>     * Message retrieving is now cancelable from the menu even if the dialog is hidden.
<dneighbo>     * Some warnings on compiling with gcc-3.0 have been removed.
<dneighbo>     * The English manual has been updated.
<dneighbo>     * The FAQs in English, Spanish and French have been added.
<jcater> from their site
<chillywilly> 2 weeks is an eternity
<dneighbo> are 0.7.4 chagnes
<dneighbo> so no big changes
<dneighbo>     *  Attached files will be inherited on forwarding or reediting.
<dneighbo>     * Filter rules will be also updated when renaming or deleting folders.
<dneighbo>     * 'Get all' and 'Check for new messages' now works for IMAP4 and News accounts.
<dneighbo>     * Limit of Receive size for POP3 has been implemented.
<dneighbo>     * The new notebook tab interface for multipart messages has been implemented, and text parts are displayed on the text view all together.
<dneighbo>     * Separate user ID and password can be used for SMTP AUTH.
<dneighbo>     * ISO-8859-15 support has been added.
<dneighbo>     * Cancellation of POP3 session is now handled correctly.
<dneighbo>     * Some bugfixes have been made.
<dneighbo> 0.7.3 had some decent fixes though
<dneighbo> imap4 support
<dneighbo> the one that they dont have that i want is drag n drop folders
<dneighbo> as i created a bunch of rules (yes!)
<dneighbo> and it auto puts my mailing list mail into correct folders
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> i was dumb and didnt realize i had so many mailing lists
<dneighbo> so i want to create a folder called Mailing Lists
<dneighbo> and put the others under it
<dneighbo> but i cant seem to do that
<dneighbo> i would have export out
<dneighbo> delete current folders create new ones then import in (and im too lazy for that) ;)
<chillywilly> that's a lot of bs work too
<chillywilly> whihc is why it takes me forever to get around to fixing up mutt and stuff as I have too many damn config files to edit
<jcater> I gave up on all that crap
Action: chillywilly is also lazy
<jcater> and use an IMAP server at work 
<jcater> w/procmail
<chillywilly> you store it all on the server?
Action: chillywilly uses IMAP with fetchmail
Action: chillywilly uses fetchmail+procmail+mutt
<dneighbo> i am too nervous about IMAP still
<dneighbo> read its not installed on my host and tested heavily
<dneighbo> jcater: can you download mail locally?
<dneighbo> as when i rid the bus i like to read my mail and compose responses
<dneighbo> though now i dont use laptop for mail so i guess that will be hard....
<dneighbo> hmmmm
<jcater> hmmm
<dneighbo> currently i download mail to home box
<jcater> yeah, I think so
<chillywilly> you can remove the messages with IMAP
<dneighbo> and while i am out i shut off the download
<chillywilly> local download and stuff
<jcater> I think most IMAP clients (including sylpheed) keep a local cache
<dneighbo> so i can ssh into a server and read with pine
<chillywilly> a real hacker just telnet to the port ;P
<chillywilly> j/k
<dneighbo> while im out (vacation (like that happens) or such)
<chillywilly> fuck mail clients
<dneighbo> you know what
<dneighbo> once linux is configured it kicks ass
<chillywilly> damn skippy
<chillywilly> but getting ti there is a PITA sometimes
<chillywilly> s/ti/it
<dneighbo> if for nothing else you know what i cant stand about winders now when i have to use it
<dneighbo> lack of virtual desktops
<dneighbo> i mean it REALLY kills me
<dneighbo> i installed like 3 different 3rd party ones
<dneighbo> but they all use a 'pager' 
<dneighbo> and you cant drag windows around them
<dneighbo> etc etc etc
<dneighbo> oh and tabs on my browswer
<jcater> roflmao
<dneighbo> i cant use i.e. or older mozilla's anymore
<chillywilly> tabs rule
Action: jcater is reading my employee's livejournal
<jcater> trips me out
<dneighbo> galeon has me spoiled with tabs
<dneighbo> linkage linkage ;)
<jcater> "I was at work yesterday and the CFO of our company asked me what the bumper sticker on the back of my car (the one that reads "Coding is Not a Crime") means. And I told him, "Oh, I dunno. It helps me get girls." And err he started laughing, and so did that dork Brian Bockhold, and I looked over and the president of the company is standing a few feet away and laughin at me. Hahha ooops."
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> you reminded me this doesnt have logjam installed
<dneighbo> need to do that :
<dneighbo> )
<jcater> I gave him the "Coding is not a Crime" bumpersticker :)
<dneighbo> rofl
<jcater> dude
<jcater> this is our intern
<dneighbo> jcater: coding is techincally not a crime
<jcater> http://www.livejournal.com/users/masterh
<dneighbo> just ....
<dneighbo> publishing code
<dneighbo> executing code
<dneighbo> distributing code
<jcater> hehe... his grandmother thought it was a perverted bumper sticker
Action: jcater guesses she read it as "copulating is not a crime" or something
<dneighbo> well maybe she is on to the notion of 'mad goats'
<jcater> you know these youngun's with their code words, like "coding"
<dneighbo> rofl i like his picture
<jcater> "hey baby, wanna code"
<jcater> he is a friggin trip
<jcater> you'll notice he never mentions me
<jcater> ever
<jcater> but he makes fun of his coworker (my other guy) left and right
<jcater> (brian)
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> can I put together a team or what!
<jcater> ;)
<dneighbo> all i can say is galeons image rendering smokes the crap out of IE 4.0 and 5.5
<dneighbo> the images are like 50% clearer and much more crisp
<dneighbo> and this is with WORSE video card
<dneighbo> me is scared... jcater might read the vile crap i write about him and jamest in my journal
<jcater> um
<jcater> what's your login?
<jcater> nevermind
<jcater> I found the red shirt and pseudo-blond hair
<chillywilly> due has a whole story about that guy
<chillywilly> er, dude
<jcater> dude?
<jcater> ah
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<jcater> there's several stories there
Action: dneighbo reread a few just now
<dneighbo>  Life with kids is truly entertaining... Spent a few hours making chicken Kiev for the wife. It was so nice, and wonderful. Candle light dinner w/ nice wine and such. Sit down and throw a dvd on and a kid is screaming. Go to see whats up and she is puking all over. Oh how it can spoil a mood. :)
<dneighbo> is great
<chillywilly> does that Brian guy like to wear hats jcater?
<jcater> no
<jcater> everything on there is a joke
<chillywilly> why did he make up the hat sotry about him
<jcater> you'd just have to know him
<dneighbo> jcater i have some gnue questions...
<dneighbo> a. can you confirm or dispell notion that prequery isnt working
Action: jcater has never used prequery to my knowledge
<dneighbo> b. what is the datasources editor for exactly... (it appears to not do anything you cant do in properties or schema editor)
<dneighbo> c. are you open to suggestions on schema editor....
<jcater> datasource editor predated schema navigator
<dneighbo> actually thats a long conversation...
<chillywilly> liar
<jcater> and datasource editor will eventually be more than it is now 
<dneighbo> as would like to see us get more into database space
<dneighbo> i.e.
<dneighbo> show a tree view of drivers installed
<dneighbo> and let you config them
<dneighbo> and set optoins etc...
<dneighbo> but also allow you to create table defintions in designer
<dneighbo> but not important at this point
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> for now will look into dia2mdeansdataspec
<dneighbo> then we have xsl to convert from that to virtually all dbs
<dneighbo> dont sigh, i like things very much
<chillywilly> " i cannot believe that belief will stand up for long if you truly believe it"
<dneighbo> just listening to the complaints so to speak
<dneighbo> lots of people (the business users) are hung up on concept of having to hand write a sql script
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I started on such a thing
<dneighbo> that guy in here today yogurt (dont know exact nick)
<jcater> but this damn real life keeps interfering
<dneighbo> wanted dynamic table editor
<dneighbo> which might be pretty cool
<dneighbo> as example of python wx application that is not gnue but uses gnue-common
<dneighbo> basically fire it up and select a driver
<dneighbo> select a database
<dneighbo> select a table
<dneighbo> select some fields
<dneighbo> and it opens in a wxGrid
<dneighbo> at first i was like just make a form
<dneighbo> but then i recalled that i had such a tool i made in delphi one afternoon that was EXTREMELY valuable
<dneighbo> as it was a real easy way to view data in a lightweight way
<chillywilly> eeee, gad
<dneighbo> without having to make forms
<chillywilly> again witht eh delphi
<chillywilly> delphi schmelphi
<dneighbo> a dba kind of tool
<dneighbo> anyhow 
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> not sure I see how this is different
<jcater> than our "multi-row" layout option in the Simple Wizard
<jcater> Click
[23:08] Last message repeated 4 time(s).
<jcater> run
<chillywilly> stop
<dneighbo> not as lightweight
<chillywilly> www.com clickity clickity click click
<dneighbo> but more importantly have never gotten run to work in designer :)
<chillywilly> king of the hill is a funny show
<dneighbo> but as stated thought it might be a decent usage of gnue common outside gnue :)
<dneighbo> not saying WE should author it :)
<jcater> my only fear is
<dneighbo> ah thats the thing i wanted to mention
<jcater> that has SO much in common with forms
<jcater> that it would eventually compete
<dneighbo> gotcha
<jcater> wrt feature-creep
<dneighbo> in master detail wizard
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> something to think about anywho
<dneighbo> it says what is key for master
<dneighbo> then new box what is key for detail
<dneighbo> i think instead it should list all fields in master on left
<dneighbo> and all fields for detail on right
<dneighbo> you highlight the field in each you want
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> and click a button in the middle to bind them
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> how would that work w/multiple keys?
<jcater> btw
<jcater> that was demo code for jamest
<dneighbo> i was just gonna say thats the beauty
<dneighbo> is it works good that way
<jcater> showing him how to do another wizard
<dneighbo> as you can highlight multiple on both sides
<dneighbo> i think it needs to be on same screen as at work
<jcater> I did that wizard in a few minutes without ANY code changes to designer :)
<dneighbo> i have tables with say 100 columns
<dneighbo> columns like
<dneighbo> CATEGORY
<dneighbo> GROUP
<dneighbo> CATALOG
<dneighbo> CASOMETHING
<dneighbo> CASOMETIHNG ELSE
<dneighbo> and on two screen thing
<dneighbo> i might cliet CASOMETHING
<dneighbo> and get to second page and go crap did i click CASOMETHING OR CASOMETHING ELSE
<dneighbo> example today had table 
<dneighbo> dept
<dneighbo> dept_num
<dneighbo> dept_name
<dneighbo> (bad naming i know believe me i know)
<dneighbo> and then title
<dneighbo> dept
<dneighbo> title
<dneighbo> as fields
<dneighbo> clicked dept_num as key in master
<dneighbo> then in detail clicked dept and was like crap i think i clieck dept_name in master
<dneighbo> hope that makes sense
<jcater> well, like I said... this was a sample wizard to show what designer could do AS IT SITS :)
<dneighbo> btw: not trying to complain i thought the wizard KICKED butt
<jcater> never said it was the best or final way
<jcater> ;)
<dneighbo> other thing i noticed is we dont have real grids
<dneighbo> so an option should be how many rows the detail is
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> if you choose grid
<dneighbo> btw: is there sample code of our repeating rows w/ scrollbar anywhere?
<jcater> not sure
<dneighbo> btw: i didnt mean that as slam on grids (i see that i probably looked that way)
<jcater> btw, I've been torn wrt asking how many grid rows to show
<jcater> as that isn't actually a "grid" wizard but a simple demo wizard
<dneighbo> just w/o a scrollbar people dont think its a grid
<chillywilly> SHOW THEM ALL
<dneighbo> chillywilly: your high
<chillywilly> fucking fill up their video ram!
<dneighbo> it would crash X
<dneighbo> i know, ive done it :)
<chillywilly> crash their X server
<chillywilly> wooooo
<jcater> and I don't want to keep cramming options in that simple wizard
<jcater> so I'm torn
Action: chillywilly sews jcater back up
<dneighbo> if we made it automatically put a scrollbar on right
<jcater> btw
<dneighbo> then i dont think we need to ask
<jcater> I'd prefer to see Simple Wizard not change at all
<jcater> and us create another wizard
<jcater> that is actually "prodcution-quality" so to speak
<dneighbo> i have never seen sample of the scrollbar in action
<dneighbo> i would like to
Action: jcater either
<derek> you have a minute to walk me through
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/bin$ ./gfdes 
<derek> Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek>   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 61, in ?
<derek>     from wxPython.wx import *
<derek>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 6, in ?
<derek>     from misc2 import *
<derek>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/misc2.py", line 12, in ?    from events import *
<derek> MemoryError
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/bin$ 
<derek> gack
<jcater> um
Action: jcater has never seen that before
Action: jcater runs
Action: jcater runs far away
<jcater> dude
<jcater> python2.2?
<jcater> are you mental?
<derek> i get weird stuff on this machine
<derek> w/ gnue at times
<derek> it will do something like above
<derek> then instantly will rerun it it
<derek> and its fine
<derek> its voodoo
<derek> remember this box i cant 'save' files
<derek> as unicode is busted
<derek> need to get my new box all gnue'd up
<derek> i might have a heart attack as i think gnue is usable on my p233 64mb at work
<derek> and pretty kosher on my pIII 500 128mb laptop
<derek> on that new durn 1.2ghz i might fall over
<chillywilly> stop bragging
<derek> some folks want a gnue demo thursday but i remember now that i cant save designer forms cause of python2.2
<derek> crap crap crap
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> not here please
<jcater> downgrade, dude
<derek> will need to take laptop to work tomorrow and grab python2.1
<derek> and compile it and all the dependencies
<derek> jcater: bug...
<jcater> derek: no...
<derek> if i slap an entry widget on form in designer
<derek> then go to property editor and change rows to greater than one
<derek> it doesnt update the form
<derek> am i doing something wrong or bug?
<jcater> I dunno
<jcater> I haven't had time to look at designer since we updated the 
<jcater> UI* stuff in forms
<jcater> it *basically* works
<jcater> but requires some patience
<derek> it works pretty good for me
<derek> i whipped up a title maintenance application for FY03 in about 2 minutes today (master detail)
<derek> i.e. it was quicker than writing the select statement
<derek> er update
<derek> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Instance.py", line 438, in OnDebugRun
<derek> DB000:     DebugSession(self)
<derek> DB000: NameError: global name 'DebugSession' is not defined
<derek> is what i always get when trying to 'run' from w/in designer
<derek> jcater you like older music like show tunes
<derek> from musicals?
<derek> i.e. do you like musicals at all
<jcater> well
<jcater> I didn't
<jcater> until I got into theatre productions
<jcater> then came to appreciate the talent behind musicals
<jcater> ;)
<jcater> got into = started going to
<derek> you like ska/punk type music at all?
<jcater> some
Action: jcater likes a little of everything
<jcater> but a lot of nothing
<derek> if so there is a group of punk musicians that liked theater and got together and decided to do cover tunes of musicals
<derek> they are GREAT
<jcater> cool
<derek> called
<derek> ME FIRST & THE GIMME GIMMES
<derek> some where over the rainbow rocks :)
<derek> as does that annie tune, (tomorrow?)
<derek> and several othes
<derek> others
<jcater> yay
<chillywilly> jcater: that intern of yours is bizzare man
<jcater> posted my first live journal
<jcater> chillywilly: yeah, isn't it great
<jcater> I plan to train him as my successor
<chillywilly> I can't stop laughing at his journal
<derek> #  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Song Name  Preview  Download    1  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Over the Rainbow   <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ms_play_prev.gif>         2  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Don't Cry for Me Agentina   <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ms_play_prev.gif>         3  <http://store.
<derek> tdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Science Fiction/Double Feature   <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ms_play_prev.gif>         4  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Summertime   <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ms_play_prev.gif>         5  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Favorite Things   <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ms_play
<derek> .gif>         6  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Rainbow Connection            7  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Phantom of the Opera Song            8  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  I Sing the Body Electric            9  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  It's Raining on Prom Night            10  <http://store.arti
<derek> ect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Tomorrow            11  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  What I Did for Love            12  <http://store.artistdirect.com/Images/artd/gui/ad_blank.gif>  Stepping Out
<chillywilly> roflmao
<jcater> fuck
<derek> gack
<jcater> wassat
<chillywilly> What I'm really waiting for right now: E.T. the Extraterrestrial is coming back into the theaters. And I'm way excited, because that part at the end where Elliot totally rides the bike and you can tell right before that he smoked a whole blunt and he's so high and so is E.T., and right during that part, you can see E.T.'s lips move slightly and if you watch REALLY carefully, E.T. says "I could use some more motherfucking Reeses P
<chillywilly> ht now." I bet they cut that part out when they re-release it though.
<derek> was trying to post list of tunes
<chillywilly> roflmao!!!!!!
Action: chillywilly is going to piss himself
<derek> that is funny
<jcater> he says crap like that in the middle of the day
<derek> these are a few of my favorite things rocks too :)
<jcater> he has a Mr. T doll sitting on his monitor
<derek> http://store.artistdirect.com/store/artist/album/0,,846139,00.html
<derek> if you have realplayer you can listen to some of their tunes
<chillywilly> that dude should be a comedian
<chillywilly> I dream iof thinking up crazy shit like that
<derek> Though it doesn't sound like a brilliant idea, Me First & the Gimme Gimmes, an all-star cover band dedicated to regurgitating punk rock-style the most frothy music in their parents' record collections, are actually extraordinarily entertaining and can make the likes of John Denver and Barry Manilow sound not so bad. The lineup includes Fat Mike of NOFX, the guitarist from the Foo Fighters, a couple of the guys from Lagwagon , and Spi
<derek> awson, the Gimmes' sweet-voiced singer, who also plays bass for the Swingin' Utters. On their second record, Are a Drag, the Gimmes tackle all of their parents' favorite showtunes, claiming homage rather than satire. Most of their choices are songs that anybody even remotely into musicals knows by heart. Their cover of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" has more choruses than the original, rocks pretty damn hard, and is certainly worthy of
<derek> irling slam pit. Though it's not as wild as John Coltrane's version, the Gimmes' "My Favorite Things" is raging enough to send Julie Andrews swan diving off the stage into a sea of sweaty punkers. They mess with the jazz standard "Summertime" by Gershwin, adding some fine surfy leads to a song that's been played a million times over. Also, there's their furious rendition of Andrew Lloyd Webber 's "Phantom of the Opera." On Are a Drag
<derek>  Gimmes succeed at playing showtunes that punk kids can dig, no small feat. ~ Adam Bregman,
<derek> the beauty of having nieces and nephews that are turing 15-18 are they turn me on to some cool music and popular culture :)
<nickr> and in many states yo ucan marry them also.
<nickr> like Wisconsin
<derek> or Tennessee
<chillywilly> pffft
<jcater> you can marry wisconsin?
<jcater> I knew corporations had the same rights as people these days
<jcater> but states too?
<derek> jcater: i cant grok scroll bars
<jcater> derek: is LogJam in sid?
<derek> yip
<derek> apt-get install logjam
<jcater> um
<jcater> rock
<nickr> ergh, I'm not getting enough email.
<nickr> whats logjam?
<jcater> nickr: what's your email?
<derek> livejournal entry tool
<jcater> I'll send you something
<jcater> dude
<jcater> this could get addicting quickly
<nickr> nick@[fargus.net|nspam.industrialmeats.com] or nickrusnov@debian.org
<nickr> I should make a live journal
<jcater> industrialmeats?
<jcater> sounds kinda sickening
<derek> grrrrrr
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> jcater: my website is nick.industrialmeats.com ;)
<derek> you want to compile logjam
<jcater> I do?
<derek> as if you compile it you can xmms support
<derek> and spell checking
<derek> i dont know how to get those with the deb file
<nickr> derek: file a big report :)
<derek> i will jsut post to evans journal
<derek> i started to fix some stuff in the logjam client
<derek> cause i ahd to complie from source on redhurt
<derek> but was choking on the fact its icky old C code
<derek> then i found evans stash of python libs to access livejournal :)
<derek> but decided i didnt need another project
<jcater> spell checking
<jcater> ?
Action: jcater hasn't used computerized spellchecking in like 2-3 years
<jcater> ok, nickr
<jcater> you have email
<jcater> ;)
<nickr> you'll be happy to know that it wasn't characterized as spam :)
<chillywilly> So, logically, I get on the fucking livejournal. Thanks, livejournal. You soul-sucking assholes. I didn't even want to post in this thing every day, and now it's like a crackhead's pipe - "oh oh what do I do now?" "smoke that crack. write in the journal."
<chillywilly> Rockin and rolling,
<chillywilly> Master H
<nickr> spamassasin is cool
<nickr> assassin
<jcater> dude
<jcater> I installed that last week
<jcater> and it has rocked my socks
<nickr> I like how it adds ****** SPAM ******* to spam :)
<jcater> derek: cool
<jcater> we could write a dbdriver backend for livejournal
<jcater> ;)
<nickr> haha
<jcater> with a forms front end
<dneighbo> would work for me
<nickr> then you could use the web forms client
<nickr> haha
<nickr> symmetry
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> we could do our appserver using zope
<jcater> so we'd have a web-based forms client
<jcater> using gnue-common to connect to a zope app server
<nickr> just make a forms client IN zope
<derek> jcater do you have any idea how scroll bar works
<jcater> which uses gnue-common to connect to the webservices of livejournal
<jcater> derek: nope
<dtm> jcater: what about xmlrpc to phpgroupware/
<dtm> ?
<jcater> ah
<jcater> tru
<dtm> jcater: well, do that then.  :)
<jcater> derek: I've never had the inclination or need to try scrollbars
<jcater> so I dunno how they work
<derek> never mind
<derek> 5.1.8 <scrollbar>
<derek> Only partially implemented at this time. Will show on form
<derek> but do nothing.
<derek> 5.1.8.1 Attributes
<derek> from the techref ;)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> well, at least the techref isn't misleading
<derek> my bug report to jamest was gonig to be
<jcater> ;)
<derek> they appear to show on form correctly, but apparently dont do anything
<derek> which is exactly how the techref explains them as working
<nickr> its nice to have parity in documentation.
<nickr> what is livejournal anyway?
<derek> an addicting piece of crap
<nickr> Heh.
<nickr> its like a blog no?
<derek> my two favorite moments on livejournal
<derek> the 18 year beverly hills chick who said I LOVE KRISPY KREME and I NEED A MAN
<derek> and the 13 year that posted in my log, your hot please message me 
<derek> the day after i told jcater i couldnt believe these birthdays being like 1985 and being intelligible etc
<nickr> I love krispy kreme
<jcater> nickr: that was you?
Action: jcater didn't know nickr was a 13 yr old girl
<derek> you should hook up with her
--- Wed Mar 13 2002