muahahaha silly jcater and jamest went to bed before me again and so they pay with masta cvs commits Action: dneighbo wonders if they are actually snaring me into doing 'maintenance' programming Nick change: dneighbo -> dnSleep SachaS (~sacha@203.190.196.90) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[x]chat" reinhard (~rm@N812P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: hello good morning all drochaid_ (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) dnSleep (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_ (~danielb@d15.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat_ (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) ra3vat_ (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Client Quit ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d85.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) SachaS (sacha@203.190.196.90) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) SirK (SirK@203.149.68.226) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) SirK (~SirK@203.149.68.226) joined #gnuenterprise. alexey (Alexey@irc.techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" alexey (~Alexey@techkran.vladimir.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly morning hello reinhard reinhard: did you see this --> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~baumannd/geas-schema-compiler.png just something I whipped up wuaick yesterday er, quick morning chilly sup dawg :P weee just looking at your drawing I know i am on crack right? may i say that i believe it needs explaination? :) yes you may well i'm not sure what every box means ODL ~= GCD right? ;) ODL compiler ~= gcdparser madainn mhath class objects == class.py (python code) meta objects are data about classes (see metadata odmg api) instances are instantiated objects of those classes ok i think i get it now (btw, I shamelessly ripped this off from the smalltalk binding) what does an arrow mean? "calls" "instantiates" flow of direction you can create declarations from existing meta objects (regeneration) odl compiler created code stubs (generation) er creates it generates code? yes, I figured why not sine we are using a dynamicaly typed langauge and we could have the methods then hook into the methods adapter s/sine/since not sure if i am a friend of self modifying code well everytime you change the idl interfaces in current geas the idl-compiler modifies the stubs ;) yes but not at runtime in normal use the interface doesn't get changed actually corba keeps an interface repository and it can be modified at runtime by rereading an idl it _could_ i can imagine it could be hell to debug such a thing it does for mst dynamically typed langauges not sure if it's easy to debug code that doesn't even exist as a source file however i don't think we need that well we will have source files, imho btw, we can just have tools that use the api too and go backwards to odl descriptions, in fact we can go either way that was the point of the diagram say you used a tool that add a Class class then it could generate an odl and that can be preprocessed into python code stubs chillywilly: i think i really got it now those python stubs would be main point being is that 'relationships' class definitions for the business objects that is we had a python object "customer" yes with fields "name", "number", "turnover" etc yep weee weeeeeeeeee I'll get this document done soon I hope ;) i think i like that :) cool I don;t have to work today we are off :) reinhard: do you know how to interpret an EBNF document? (syntax explanation type document using symbols and stuff) is it something bison-syntax like? I am trying to find the ODL, OIF, and OQL EBNFs online otherwise I will have to type them in by hand ummm not sure chillywilly: seriously i'm not too hot about odl I'll find an example it's very similar to current gcds yeah has 'relationships' to maintain referntial intergrity like if one object has a relationship to another and then object goes away you can clean it up so it doesn;t refer to it anymore it's just idl witha few extras but jcater said he wants xml here's an example just look at the work the french accountant did for us (bear with me) he was not able to write correct gcd's aaaah well he's not a programmer though louis ah yes that was his name sure it should not need a programmer to define objects you have to think in the object space welll....couldn't we just work with them chillywilly: i disagree I mean we are masters of this domain we have to think in user space they are masters of theirs ok imagine you give your mom 2 programs I;m not sure what to do about that do you know? program a. is perfectly done I wouldn't give my mom a program I would however work ona reqwuirements and specifications document with her ;) then implement it written by a very intelligent person written on an university perfectly fitting every standard and program b. is not, but she can understand how program b works and she doesn't understand a which one will she use :) ok, but how do you envision us bridgin the gap? odl is just our internal object description format (or could be) we need tools to make describing business processes eay right and then from that meta info we generate code and methods? s/eay/easy alexey (Alexey@techkran.vladimir.ru) left irc: "[x]chat" maybe the hard part is I can wrap my head arouns it all, without like doing cases studies on this field and that field, etc. probably because I am business stupid to a lot of degrees ; chillywilly: exactly er, can't s/;/;) anyway to do what I said you would need to map business concepts to object concepts right? for code generation now, can we do this in layers? like deal with an appserver that uses object descriptions etc, then abstract that up to a business process mapping? or would it be better to include a busines process thing at the core somwhere? chillywilly: the "exactly" was to "we need tools..." not to "i am business stupid..." btw :) yes I figured that ;) you usually aren't one to pick on me like the others ;) not sure if i understand your question i don't see much difference between a business object and a "normal" object yes I make no distinction either the question is only how the objects will be defined yes and I was goign to break ti down in that regard (my wuestion that is) er, question i think do we use odl and then have a business process mapping to objects or do we use some format already that incorporates business process stuff the appserver reads the object descriptions (from wherever) ah ok what is "business process" I dunno that's pretty generic say like Action: chillywilly thinks e.g., CRM you say oh when I do this I want to see all customers on this account and when I do this I want to see all people working on this account etc. (maybe not exactly like that) those things are in the front end imho they describe the processes their business goes through using our toold well... I just couldn't think of good example for a business 'process' chillywilly: is it like first a order is entered, then it must be printed out then the boss must check it then it is faxed to the supplier etc. ? I suppose so yes I would agree that is more closer this is what derek calls "workflow" than my example yep and i don't think this should be _in_ the appserver agreed but it could be an easy way for people but rather in the application itself to 'design' thier business software instead of riting gcds er, writing say if it was gra[hical and we had more 'concepts' and components a sorta 'dummy' layer for them to customize GNUe not saying they are dummies or anything ;) i would say that navigator will do such a thing hmmm like listing the actions in the logical order like you have a menu where you see all actions in the order they have to happen I thought right now all it did was make menus yeah exactly I am talking about a langauge that describes business processes, then we map those to objects, etc. and if we define the business objects that all of them have a "state" field or something like that i think what i want to point out is does it matter if its a state field or something else? that's an implementation decision right? that geas will provide business objects and workflow is the way how these objects are _used_ 'business' but doesn't have impact on their definitions ok pate-zzz (~pate@12-230-212-2.client.attbi.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). how does the business guy designa GNUe pacakeg then? ;) with our awarded visual designer ;) talk to a GNUe consultant ;)...:P ok this is what I was saying wouldn't that visual designer somehow eventually create the object definitions to carry out theri design? and maybe even generate method code if it was generic enough? the visual designer _will_ create the object definition it will probably not create method code however well stubs at least if the designer creates the object definition chillywilly: yes stubs if the designer creates the object definition and the appserver reads them like hey methods ad[ater I want to execute customer.kill() ;) er, adapter it is a software to software information transfer not a human to software information transfer and for software to software transfers XML is the best method i am highly anti XML when humans have to deal with it wouldn't it be a human to software to software transfer? but XML is ok for data exchange between 2 pieces of software human uses designer then designer says here you go appserver yes but the human neither reads nor writes the XML agreed xml is not freindly for handediting so it's actually inimportant whether it is a standard or not bah I spelled that crap wrong because noone will look at the file at all well you could markup odl in an xml format just like you could for any format to make the xml gods happy ;) s/gods/gurus/ (jcater, jamest, dneighbo) xml 'advocates' even ;) OIF is a data exchange format for the objects and someone was nice and made an xml markup of that and you can download it off the odmg site oifml.ps I guess I will have to document all the 'formats' and query langauges too so you guys can see those and say what you think about those I'll worry about that at a later date actually ofi is suppoed to be used to dum the ODMS er, ofi bah OIF s/dum/dump and to prime the pump (insert a bunch objects so mayeb having that be xml would appease everyone as you could load the object into designer OIFML xml markup of the object that is edit it then save it and geas could load in the object data via the saved xml file ToyMan_LTop (~stuq@65.167.123.51) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan_LTop (stuq@65.167.123.51) left irc: Remote closed the connection I dunno that really doesn't define the 'schema' of the object(s) though as ODL (GCD) does Action: chillywilly is juts babbling on s/juts/just ToyMan_LTop (~stuq@65.167.123.51) joined #gnuenterprise. hey ToyMan_LTop welcome back :) hey chilly Action: chillywilly is working on a laptop too this is a new (used) one for me.. running bsd you and your bsd ;) Action: chillywilly prefers to run an OS with GNU in the name :) hey, don't get me started;) go ahead man Action: chillywilly attacjes jumper cables to ToyMan_LTop's gonads will that get you started? ;) heh, just coffee will do, thanks hehe a fine substitute :) but that's proll'y the way they do it in wisco... ouch actually we also consume coffee ;) heh, wisco has the highst rate of alchoholism and obesity in the US... ToyMan_LTop: it's only done the jumper cable way wehn you are about to go out onto the ice to go fishing ;) does not also one of the highest suicide rates... does too prove it hmmm. I *did* have a reference I could point to at one time... and here I thought this was one of the best states to live in I'll look through my older bookmarks I think so too.. because WI is the most family oriented of anywhere I have been LOTS of people say this too that have lived elsewhere one sec, phone well, I loved living in Wisconsin I like the sense of space there it's just that.... my *family* lives there ;) which is an excellent reason for me to *not* are they fat, alcoholic, suicidal maniacs too ;) chilly, you ever use fluxbox? nope heh, mainly very nice window manager but I'm a Gnome guy my older brother lives near Mellen in the far north and he's pretty normal the rest I stay away from well I lvoe my family er, love heh, I love mine too. Just from a distance heh ToyMan_LTop: this is a logged channel :) sorry, off-topic here... bah, like that matters nah, I meant talking bad about your family it is being logged :) we have some sprinklings on on-topicness here and there ;) Action: jcaway didn't know there was a *topic* for this channel like chillywilly said :) well, if they ever come after me in court, i'll ask jcater to expunge the logs... rofl unfortunately, I can't get to google's archives :) heh, well my older brother is the only one that uses a computer in my family and he feels the same way.. jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. what's theirc command that shows you when the last time a person commented on a channel? jcater! quick! expunge this channel's logs!!! uh? mmmmmm boston creme coffee cake Action: jcater selectively troutslaps fellow gnue'rs chillywilly: I don't think that's the command hehe isn't that a feature of some bots? and not an actual irc command? maybe,... I'm not sure I'm only minimally knowledgable about irc i've just seen others post it in channels sometimes.. irc does not do that but bota can tell you whem someone was last here and what they said as in, if I type in this little box at the bottom of xchat, it magically appears in the bigger box at the top of xchat whoop! /nick was last seen in #xyz @ 11:11 saying "...... lol that's a bot thang now, what would be cool is if you could ask a bot when the last time a person made a USEFUL comment :) chillywilly: Not Found ;P chillywilly: "I'm going to bed" whoop! :'( good idea! derek: "I'll stay out of cvs" lol you're so mean to me that's why I like reinhard he doesn't pick on me jcater: "I'll put the donuts down and code for a minute" what fun is that? ummm I dunno he doesn't talk enough I'm not sure of the effects if his niceness s/if/of I better stay away I don't want to catch it chilly, I found the reference to those Wiso. 'facts' I was telling you... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0826321933/qid=1017409401/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7932139-2469661 that's the book... Wisconsin Death Trip cron jobs are running it's actually very good, despite its grim title how does that support your claims it's about 'history' for crying out loud 19th century history no less but he sites current statistics in the book,, that's where I read that stuff btw, I would never buy anything from amazon.com they have the stupidest patent in the world 'one click shopping' heh, their Toys R Us part of their site sells some of our toys so I do business with them. they're morons oh, is this channle logged ;) hehe, yep Action: ToyMan_LTop notes that his big mouth is not good for business ToyMan_LTop: you need to sell me some toys :) now now jcater these are 'children's' toys your toys rock not thos kinda toys hey thanks! i'm not making much money right now, so I'll take complimemnts ;) chillywilly: I'd disagree oh man Take the first one I look at: we were at this job and there was this guy who was like a lego freak For ages 8 through adult he had a mona lisa covering his entire wall see, it says "adult" I'm working on a (IMHO) fairly huge zope site, it'll be up in about 2-3 weeks that's not my point jcater you missed my joke brb chilly, he got your joke and wnet right past it ToyMan_LTop: do you only do web sales? jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. no, mainly wholesale to stores as I see stuff like that in some of the "hip" bookstores here in town but the *entire* spec. toy indus. went bankrupt they like to sell "intelligent" kids stuff :) ouch jamest: morning so we're moving the whole shebang to the web i'm doing a community portal, forums, ecom, a *greatly* expanded catalog... who do you work for and where's there web site? the 'plumbing' is up @ http://www.dstoys.org/cmf chilly, you mean me? yes wow I own Design Science Toys new site is much different than old one :) Action: jcater will have to order some stuff to help our pal out that's just the user community 'input'side.. we're wiring up the 'output' now not that I'd play w/stuff like that :) you've gotta log in to really see it do some stuff brb heh are you taking criticisms? definately don't have any yet, but I wanted to check first :) keep in mind that this is still rough. all of the input objects are in their 'generic' form we'll customize them as we see how the user community uses them but that's easy with zope :) derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. another zope user :) dtm: you here ? I'm looking at plone now jcater you not answering your phone dude? huh? making zope/cmf look pretty my phone is setting next to me plone? http://www.plone.org isn't that just a skin for cmf that was my first thought yes 'just' a skin is a little misleading, though skins in cmf do a lot more than just change the look of things dnSleep (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Fatal (~fatal@staff.xmms.org) joined #gnuenterprise. Fatal (~fatal@staff.xmms.org) left #gnuenterprise. hi reinhard Nick change: dnSleep -> dneighbo morning dneighbo hey ToyMan_LTop Nick change: ToyMan_LTop -> ToyMan too many syllables in that nick Mobile_Toys you got wireless on the laptop? not yet ;) that'll be in the new factory we're closing on the building on Monday jamest: i tried to regrok triggers last night in the process many triggers didnt work it appeared that they were not properly 'exposed' in GFBlock.py so i reexposed them and committed them Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas: hi Hello Yurii :) Hello everyone :) anyone here try openoffice? yes I'm running it on win32 and linux systems any good? um yes and no it's the spreadsheet I'm most interested in it works ok and does a lot of what you require however it's a memory hungry beast it's a full-featured sloth this is the latest version, 6.x , yes? not the one with that crappy shell... latest binary 641c IIRC the shell is gone the horrible memory consumption isn't it's better but considering how bad it was that doesn't mean much :) hmmm I like gnumeric a lot... but i'm not running gnome and don't want all those libs... Action: ToyMan looks at the depend list for gnumeric again... I have a company using it here in town on a Dual Athlon 1500+ w/ 1GB of RAM let me get a process count for you well, this is for my laptop... PII266 with 156MB... lowly machine 8 users and i'm trying to stay away from big desktop environments like gnome/kde currently have it loaded at this time 48 processes all soffice.bin ouch! wait, 48 *per* user? or is this a server install? 48 total each user startup spawns multiple processes with 1GB of ram most if is going to staroffice 40MB to 100MB per process alot of which is shared about 10MB per process shows as not shared that's a little steep for my leetle lapper... sup my peeps Action: ToyMan watches gnumeric compile in the bg... Action: dneighbo runs off to work Nick change: dneighbo -> dnWork mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" does anyone knows how to change locale? dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (stuq@65.167.123.51) left irc: "Client Exiting" mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@65.167.123.51) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp286482.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sup hey chilly not much. Just converting my buildd to using libio. =) okey dokey sup crazymike howdy you ready to setup your web server ;)? yeah, as soon as I try and fix grub lemme look at it ah you have ti ope s/ti/it open yeah, just a sec ti needs to be /initrd.img-2.4.17-686 s/ti/it thats what it was don't forget the '/' it said it nees absolute path info s/nees/needs '/' is the absolute path i know, but the absolute path for it would be /boot/in etv etc nope cause it is in /boot it doesn't understand mount points it is / because it is a separate partition /boot is on a separate partition that is ok look at it if / and /boot were on the same partition then you would need to tell it /boot/initrd.... but it shows that initrdblahblahblah is in /boot that should work in the /boot folder ok, I am gonna go try I'll brb but it is on a separate parition it reads the partitions as / the 'root' ok crazymike (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: dneighbo (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ello dneighbo you working stiff nope generally i work flacid well I have off today with pay so there :P crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. i am back did it work? yeah good :) if it didn't, i wouldn't be back yet...the lsow boot is really SLOW!!! ah :) alright, as for the web server... forward port 80 all the files are still in /var/www i did that already yep and it is installed opent he port on the firewall I can't cannect connect ok...where is that file??? i can't remember I was trying last night I'll do it i want to do it :) Action: jcater misread that as "I was crying last night" lol /etc/netwotk/if-up.d/iptables_firewall comment out the line with -j ACCESPT under the web server line that is already in there er, ACCEPT ## Webserver #iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j LOG --log-level 5 -m limit --limit 20/minute #iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j DROP #iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT Action: jcater is away: running errands DROP means no connections ACCEPT means yes to connections loggin is porbbaly a good thing to uncomment too then restart networking with the init script '/etc/init.d/network restart' I think the init script??? oh, ok Reconfiguring network interfaces: ipcheck.py: Bad acctfile: /etc/ipcheck.acct ipcheck.py: Exception: bad directory option ipcheck.py: Bad acctfile: /etc/ipcheck.acct ipcheck.py: Exception: bad directory option done. did we ever configure ipcheck chillywilly: ??? chillywilly: you dead?!?!?! Arturas (arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: Remote closed the connection whew sorry had to drop the kids off ASAP ;) wow it is fscked nope I guess not as you have my script in there #!/bin/sh ipcheck.py -d /etc -i ppp0 --syslog --acctfile /etc/ipcheck.acct ipcheck.py -d /etc/obfuscation -i ppp0 --syslog --acctfile /etc/ipcheck.acct1 now it is like this ipcheck.py -d /etc -i eth0 --syslog --acctfile /etc/ipcheck.acct ere, we have to tell it to use your router hrrrm that's not going to work ;) need different options you need to make an account file in /etc called ipcheck.acct how do that??? it should have just a text file??? yes ahhh username password hostname e.g., mine is like baumannd xxxxxxxx obfuscation.dyndns.org sorry you can't get my password ;P (not that it matters that much) there isn't anything in /etc called ipcheclk ipcheck you create a text file in /etc put those three thing on one line name it ipcheck.acct ok in that dyndns script I modified it to use -L passwd (tels it to use your linksys router IP and I used the correct password for your router) but it won't run until you have an account file in /etc i made one ok mike is your dyndns username? who elses would it be??? just making sure this is not your GNU/Linux username that needs to go in there but the one you used when registering for dyndns ahhhh drochaid_ (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. then let me remember drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) basically you are authenticating to dyndns and saying here's my new IP please map this hostname to it I can't type the password in there uh? because you can't see it what do you mean? i don't want you to see it so, promise me you won't open that file I already did why are you worried but that wasn't the right one it is justa hostname anyway You might hijack his domain bah but pr0n up of his sister. I'm not crazymike put, rather. =) no, thats not it I have root access to his box anyway he has to trust me ;) chillywilly: See? Putting pr0n up of his sister is oaky. I told you! =) crazymike: don't worry about it hang on, I am gonna change it you know I'm not going to fuck with you my man ;) crazymike: why does it matter anyway? root can do ANYTHING go ahead if it makes you feel better Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid ok Arturas (~root@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. I know that root can do ANYTHING, but I was asking you as a friend not to look at it but thats ok, I just changed it I looked before you asked because I wanted to make sure you did it right not to be a jag no I;m just trying to hook you up homey but that was before I realized it was the dyndns unername and password though I undersstand that so you saw that one I don't care if you saw that one thats what I changed it to anyways yes, I followed you ok anyways are you mad at me now or something? no not at all then let is carry on shall we? we shall :) hrm ok, it should update your IP now it runs without errors thats good Mar 29 04:55:12 mishka ipcheck: The database matches local address. No hosts update. Mar 29 04:55:24 mishka ipcheck: opt_directory set to /etc/ Mar 29 04:55:24 mishka ipcheck: opt_acctfile set to /etc/ipcheck.acct Mar 29 04:55:24 mishka ipcheck: opt_interface set to eth0 Mar 29 04:55:24 mishka ipcheck: opt_Linksys_password = ***** Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: opt_username = crazymike Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: opt_password = ******** Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: opt_hostnames = crazymike.dyndns.org Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: PWD = /etc/network/if-up.d Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Datfile = /etc/ipcheck.dat Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Errfile = /etc/ipcheck.err Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Waitfile = /etc/ipcheck.wait Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Htmlfile = /etc/ipcheck.html Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Tempfile = /etc/ipcheck.tmp Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Searching default route on sys.platform = linux2 Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Linux default route detection for router. Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Trying linksys router at 192.168.1.1 Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Trying Linksys Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: linksys.out file created Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: IP matched: 65.31.133.230 Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Good, filehosts and hostnames are the same. Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Good, no ipcheck.err file. Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Good, no ipcheck.wait file. Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: Checking hosts in file vs command line. Mar 29 04:55:25 mishka ipcheck: The database matches local address. No hosts update. it recognized that your IP didn't cange so didn't bother to update ok (didn't change sine the last update) so will it do that automagically??? or do I have to run that everyonce in a while??? danielb@obfuscation:~$ host crazymike.dyndns.org crazymike.dyndns.org A 65.31.133.230 yep all script in that ip-up.d dir scripts ok, so I don't have to worry about that thats good will be executed automagically when the network scripts executes ok whatelse we be having to do??? nothgin else thats it if you have oprt 80 opened er, port and forwarded at the router it should work now??? yeah I think so well, try it!!! :) I will I am going to double check using iptables -L I can make sure port 80 is open how??? does that tell you what is open??? I don;t see it though maybe try telnet server 80 yes hmmm, I opened it could be beacsue that python script failed ## Webserver iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j LOG --log-level 5 -m limit --limit 20/minute #iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j DROP iptables -A INPUT -i $IFACE -p tcp --dport 80 -j ACCEPT i'll brb jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp286482.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). duh it is right there ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:www ??? you sure that router is forwarding port 80? Nick change: crazymike -> crazymike_smoker let me double check nope, it didn't take for some reason ahh I know why cause galeon is still bitched I haven't fixed it er? oh fix it then you can live without bookmarks for a minte crazymike_smoker (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) mv it out of the way and rerun the druid crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. I was disconnected Nick change: crazymike -> crazymike_smoker I saw RR went down? nopwe nope I am not sure what it was though oh it was IRC nothing else disconnected you just lost the connection to the IRC server it happens [10:55:06] fix it then [10:55:14] you can live without bookmarks for a minte [10:55:22] <-- crazymike_smoker has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [10:55:25] mv it out of the way and rerun the druid mv .galeon .galeon.old rerun galeon Nick change: crazymike_smoker -> crazymike you had a smoke already? yeah try fixing galeon and then forwarding that port ;) it shoudl work sledge_ (~sledge@B2a70.pppool.de) joined #gnuenterprise. drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" I hope galeon still friggin work for you i forwarded the port on mozilla ok lazy bum ;P and I just did what you said to do for galeon and it didn't hi there (sledge_ == lupo_) grooovy I can see your files now in my browser try downloading one just to see if it starts I downloaded a trade center pic cool it works i need to move some shit now probably ;P actually, I should just link www to cd /windows/music I am looking at your motorcycle pic yea if that's what you want to share where did that link go what link? oh the www link it should be in /var lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 8 Mar 11 17:47 www -> /windows rm www ln -s /windows/music www from the /var dir ok should be good now cool yep less stuff ok ;) only the music dir??? yes good, then I can still have some privacy :) appears to be anyway heheh you should browser around it yourself and make sure everything is the way you like it I can't why is all the howieday stuff in .vidfs ? yes you can use mozilla or fix galeon it takes me to my router page SachaS (~sacha@203.190.196.72) joined #gnuenterprise. what? use crazymike.dyndns.org that doesn't work? cheack out you logs once jason said he can't get there in /var/log/apache well that makes no sense unfucking believable the code red worm is trying to break into your apache server (it's not goignt o work though) but I can't believe the second it came up it was probing it 65.31.105.14 - - [29/Mar/2002:05:11:11 -0600] "GET /scripts/root.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 276 "-" "-" 65.31.105.14 - - [29/Mar/2002:05:11:11 -0600] "GET /MSADC/root.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 274 "-" "-" 65.31.105.14 - - [29/Mar/2002:05:11:11 -0600] "GET /c/winnt/system32/cmd.exe?/c+dir HTTP/1.0" 404 284 "-" "-" somebody else on RR has an infect M$ IIS server infected *g* 169.207.135.15 - - [29/Mar/2002:05:21:02 -0600] "GET /Howie%20Day/hday2002-01-24.vidf/hday2002-01-24mpeg.txt HTTP/1.1" 200 905 "http://crazymike.dyndns.org/Howie%20Day/hday2002-01-24.vidf/" "Mozilla/5.0 Galeon/1.2.0 (X11; Linux i686; U;) Gecko/20020315" crazymike: guess who that is? ;) ??? you yep why can't jason reach your site? you are downloading Howie??? I dunno no I can't get to it either read the test file about who recorded it er, text ahhh /Howie%20Day/hday2002-01-24.vidf/hday2002-01-24mpeg.txt see? yeah ok someone here needs to try it out once too someone try to go to http://crazymike.dyndns.org I have 0 propblems reaching it er, problems it takes me to the router login page bah, that's your fucked up router's fault then yeah but other people should be able to access it form outside I am not worried about me getting in s/form/from gack we are really bad uh? me included why? of doing support in #gnuenterprise that isnt for gnue we should probably really utilize that new kick butt #debian-support channel only because of our logs I was thinking that before i.e. i am not trying to be topic police yeah you are i like to talk off topic as much of the next guy :) look at your TOPIC: It's 22:00 do you know where your donuts are? but if we know we are going off topic for support we should probably use #debian-support sledge_ (sledge@B2a70.pppool.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/981227-pre0.9" thats really gnue related crazymike exactly so where are your donuts :) in my tummy :) my donuts are in my belly as stated im number 1 rule breaker so im not 'policing' SachaS (~sacha@203.190.196.72) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). just saying we should probably get better about it :) crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: sine you made crazymike leave you have to try out hsi site to see if it works that is your punishment ;) s/hsi/his i didnt make him leave where is his site i will try it for him http://crazymike.dyndns.org just some fiels there for now er, files works for me ok that's 3 confirmed it should be good to go he just needs a nice web page why files seem descriptive enough ;) chillywilly_ (~danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: you here? chillywilly (danielb@d15.as12.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: chillywilly_!~danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net)) Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise. do designer wizards work with mysql? I think so ajmitch and jcater both added support iirc well on second thought I dunno if it pertains to wizrds or what I think they added introspection support which would mean wizrds then work with it right? yip thanks jamest what are you using mysql for? that's a trout slappable offence er, offense speaking of support who wants to help me get my postgres up and running ? I haven't the time to rtfm or the motivation for that matter apt-get install postgres i think it does an initdb su - postgres createuser then create your user back off er log off psql template1 I got all that taken care of iirc create database dbname; and you are off I just don't get the permissions crap and the config stuff dres (dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Remote closed the connection jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp286919.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Yurik is away: home-beer-n-sleep jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp286919.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "Client Exiting" jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317692.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. yatsura (~mitchelp@yatsura.plus.com) joined #gnuenterprise. yatsura (~mitchelp@yatsura.plus.com) left #gnuenterprise. bye Arturas (root@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "ircII/tkirc" i'm not using it however someone on the mysql list was asking about ways to interface glade/mysql lots of crack smoking ;) you were pluggin forms eh? :) ok why on mysql list... its like the mc carthy trials its a mysql witch hunt :) hi jbailey Heya derek. drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: reinhard is back wb reinhard feasgar math drochaid hi reinhard psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi psu how are you? hi cw doing fine good lo psu lo drochaid gah 48k of log already today and a big chunk of it actually on topic hehe, a lot of meaning less drivel I am sure ;) where is big on topic part? Action: dneighbo fears he missed some conversation well, you & reinhard on GEAS will need summarising methinks a convo reinhard and I had earlier and I'd just got rid of my keyboard macro shortcut to type "ODMG" ;-) *sigh* I think I'll go crawl in a hole and die ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" hey has everyone heard of the term 'jag off'? if I called you a jag off do you know what I mean? chillywilly (danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: "brb" chillywilly (~danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. lol the krispy kreme Louisianna heist made the news over here Action: dneighbo wondered why i got a call early this AM from a bailsbondman in LA Made page 124 of Ceefax (the "light hearted" news page) has anyone ever pasted a link and forgot to include the link in an email? er, posted a link god I'm a moron my usual trick is to forget attachments probaly have about a 50% record on this everyone does that though I have sunk to a new low and of course the resident BSD jerk has to spout off why the fuck is he on the list? Action: psu is away: bbl chillywilly when was last time you saw ajmitch? I dunno not in a VERY long time Linus Torvalds develops non-free software, and by using Bitkeeper he is both encouraging and pressuring other free software developers to use it too. He is a bad influence on the community, and should not be considered a leader. this is from RMS what kind of jag off would use this as huis sig when posting to a LUG list? Linux is for people who hate Microsoft. FreeBSD is for people who love UNIX. Windows: "Where do want to go today?" Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" BSD: "Hey, are you guys coming or what?!?" it's official I hate peoeple not just certain people but all people You forgot the Hurd. "We're coming!! REally we are!" not my sig dude reinhard (rm@N812P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "There are two types of people: those who divide people into two types, and those who don't" psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[x]chat" reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.104) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317692.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). Harald1 (Peter1234@pD9E0EC3F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi Harald1 drochaid_ (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Harald1 (Peter1234@pD9E0EC3F.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) ^chewie (~chewie@flemingi.dsl.visi.com) joined #gnuenterprise. <^chewie> blah <^chewie> dneighbo: did you have that document mgmt proposal from nickr? yeah you want it Action: ^chewie nods <^chewie> I didn't see it in the CVS <^chewie> may not be able to dcc <^chewie> I didn't set up NAT on the dsl modem <^chewie> s/modem/router/ http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~neilt/doc_store/Document-Store/documentstorespec.html is online version <^chewie> danke if you drop down a dir there is the sgml source Action: jcater is back (gone 05:55:03) damn 6 hours of errands man thats a lot of donuts you can eat in 5 hours <^chewie> heh <^chewie> dneighbo: don't mind if I write up proposals/docs in texinfo, do ya? ;-) <^chewie> bash$ makeinfo --docbook myfile.texinfo # ;-) i personally dont like texinfo but i take documentation any way someone is willling to write it :) the preferred in these orders i think are - docbook - lyx - texinfo - raw text file what you gonna write docs on ? ^chewie: you need texinfo 4.1 for that, don't you? texinfo should be before LyX um Action: reinhard will leave before this debate starts again night all reinhard (rm@62.47.45.104) left irc: "If you think there is good in everybody, you haven't met everybody" yea, you haven't met me yet ok there is no order or preference when i started doing docs what we had were in TeXinfo <^chewie> ah, he quit and 'docbook' wsa supposed to be the bomb i said i would gladly learn either <^chewie> dneighbo: I need to write up workshop management application i was told learn docbook so i did by converting our texinfo docs :) then wrote several docs in docbook then jamest and others couldnt get docbook to install or something so they starting using lyx <^chewie> yes, but can you compile docbook to *.info docs? which started a war at which point i just stopped dealign with docs :) <^chewie> IIRC, the official documetn format for GNU projects is texinfo ;-) and reinhard has been doing stuff in texinfo again <^chewie> yeah ^chewie it is im just telling you the history <^chewie> I think he may be correct w/the version of makeinfo for the --docbook target i personally think docbook is superior to texinfo Action: ^chewie nods after using both but texinfo isnt 'bad' just different <^chewie> dneighbo: it doesn't really matter which is superior. What matters to me is that I get *.info docs :) cool Action: jcater will continue doing his in MS Word <^chewie> if I can do that from docbook, then great, but until I know I can, I'll stick with texinfo ;-) as im saying it doesnt matter to me :) jcater: actually i have taken docs in word format <^chewie> jcater: what, then save as HTML? ;-) the hr proposal was in word format Action: ^chewie nods ^chewie i think you can go from docbook to .info <^chewie> wvLaTeX <^chewie> wvLaTeX file.doc file.latex db2info i think <^chewie> ;-) <^chewie> dneighbo: ahh <^chewie> dneighbo: I don't seem to have a db2info util <^chewie> [16:25:57] chewie@skuld (504)$ db2 <^chewie> db2dvi db2html db2pdf db2ps db2rtf http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/ drochaid_ (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) <^chewie> hmm...if there was a dvi2info, we could db2dvi|dvi2info ;-) drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. docbook2X converts DocBook documents into man pages and Texinfo documents. i assume that would meet your needs? <^chewie> hmm <^chewie> is docbook2x XML or SGML? For historical reasons, there are multiple programs that convert from DocBook to man pages or Texinfo documents. For new projects, it is recommended to use the following: docbook2manxml and the Texinfo XSLT stylesheets. Both of these tools convert the DocBook source into an intermediate XML format, which is in turn translated by db2x_manxml or db2x_texixml to the desired man pages or Texinfo, respectively. <^chewie> excellent <^chewie> ack, time to catch the bus <^chewie> later ^chewie (chewie@flemingi.dsl.visi.com) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?" i thought all docs were to be done in .py format? roflmao only developers docs ;)( anybody here know laptops well? what is the question i have fought linux on 3 or 4 different brands notably well, if I pull the plug, will it suto-switch to battery power? ibm, toshiba, compaq, dell it 'should' if you ahve apm installed this is a compaq armada and your laptop supports it you run gnome? hmm. no apm installed yet without apm id be leary heh, well i started a gnumeric install 8 hrs ago... rofl looks like all of gnome is coming along for the ride i'm wanting to go home, but don't want to interuppt the compile drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" ToyMan: http://dstoys.com/CT.html that you? nope that's my old corporate lawyer and his daughter ;) i'm on the cover of the Globe Project... but I think the photo is to small to see on-line that definitely aint stu :) shit, I wish there was a progress meter on a compile job... ah, I thought you were older than 10 no, not the kid building... on the cover of the book that comes with it I know just kiddinhg hmmm when i met him looked 10 to me ;) Action: dneighbo wonders how old ToyMan is older than dneighbo iirc from memory you dont look more than 30 - 33 but from experience i would say you are probably over 40 you flatter me... add 15yrs to that 45 i think its the light hair adn fact you still have some :) for some reason people with light eyes and hair seem younger to me jcater: for the record toyman doesnt have a 'donut' physique like we do :) that probably helps shed 15 years off right there heh, /me eats health food hey, now I eat health food too you are like 30 right jcater I have Diet Cokes w/my Donuts Action: dneighbo runs and hides sigh Action: jcater stopped keeping track of his age ToyMan: do you make these toys? s/make/design yes, we make all of them l8r jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. I designed about 1/3 oooo you need a programmer? I can relocate :) you dont want to move to NY well, I'm really expensive, though but you can telecommute but I'd take toys and donuts for payment :) heh no programmer needed yet I'm still trying to come up with a toy that is computerized and doesn't suck actually, my current background is marketing :) really? now that i need seriously, send me a resume or something if you got marketing chops, and you're interested hmm well i have kids if you ever need 'beta testers' ;) dneighbo: you are a kid :) shhh :) sigh I need to take the wifey out to movies tonight anything worth watching? beautiful mind i hear is good and the solider one w/ mel gibson i hear just kicks butt crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: chillywilly (~danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. crazymike (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit what is this? musical irc? eh, shutup chillywilly (danielb@d60.as7.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Client Quit how wude but I expect no less :) less is more in unix or as we say out west ToyMan (stuq@65.167.123.51) left irc: "Client Exiting" Here lies Les Moore, Two slugs from a fourty-four, No less, no more. of course i always wondered how poor a shot les was if it took 2 44 slugs to cap his ass and he didnt even get one shot back... run away, run away dneighbo (dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: "BitchX-1.0c18 by panasync" dyfet (~dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Cherukan (~Cherukan@242846hfc175.tampabay.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello? Action: Cherukan is away: I'm probably busy Action: Cherukan is back (gone 00:00:04) hello busy for 4 seconds? :) Hello Still there? I have some questions... sorry if this is not the right place, but I need some direction I would like to develop for GNUe well, this is the right place :) I'm only here for a second Oh The problem is... I am not a hotshot C/C++ programmer I have extensive programming experience in 4G languages we use Python Powerbuilder, Delphi and such wah or, ah I recently started using Python our forms and designer packages have been equated to delphi when dnWork gets back, he can elaborate on that as he came to us from a delphi background the tools themselves are coded in python Ok, but I want to do something in Python or C Hoping to learn in the process too cool Isnt the GEAS piece written in C? what kind of programming are you wanting to do? um it was Anything thats Python, C or C++ but it is being rewritten in python Really? we have an extensive common library for python that all the other tools already used that was already far ahead of geas so it made sense to reuse a lot of this that's our gnue-common package But geas the central piece? well Is python fast enough for an appserver? we think so but the beauty of python is its integration with c Hmmm it's trivial to prototype an app in python and get it going quickly and find the pieces that are slow and recode those in C of course, we've yet to have to do that for any of the other tools so we're pleased w/python but the main benefits are speed of deployment and ease of maintenance So eventually will you be replacing the entire geas code in Python? well, we've ditched the current c stuff it just wasn't working for us I work with another ERP, PeopleSoft you program for them? no or you program with their software? not even that I just setup and adminster their various components ok cool the more backgrounds, the better :) some come from SAP backgrounds I come from an Oracle background I was led to believe that C++ was the only suitable language for the appserver Thats what they use well, it's very easy to go from python to C++ code if that's what we end up doing but we can get a working app much faster in python incidentally, from experience, I don't buy the "it needs to be in C or C++", myself OK I do understand where that comes from esp. when people try to do such servers in java and they churn along slowly exactly So where do I start? so, you're interested in GEAS, right? Very much! I am fascinated with appservers especially we just made the decision to switch gears so there isn't a code base yet somewhere in there (in geas/docs maybe) Oh chillywilly is doing a new ODMG based proposal that'd be a good starting point Whats ODMG? I think I have a lot of reading to do um Object Data Management Group or something like that Whats a good starting point? ...to start reading um well, chillywilly's docs probably geas/docs/odl.txt or something like that lemme look Ok btw, I work on the reports and forms clients that's why I'm not sure about this stuff :) Cool yeah, it's geas/docs/odmg.txt I hate to run You have been very helpful Thx for your time but I promised wife I'd go to movies and dinner with her OK :) if derek pops in, corner him :) Sure will jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" Action: Cherukan is away: I'm probably busy Action: Cherukan is back (gone 00:29:11) crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. crazymike (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit hi david grrrr no one here with ops huh Cherukan: i can answer some stuff for you brb trying to get rid of derek :) dnWork (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "um my gnue tree is bigger than your gnue tree" dneighbo (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) derek (derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection derek (~derek@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. bbs Action: derek is away: goofing off hello derek Action: derek is back (gone 00:11:25) hello Hi, can you see my questions? Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( Ice Cube - It was a good day 15| 4:22 )15=14- Cherukan: yeah i saw them but then they disappeared when i restarted you want me to respond to them from memory? If you can recall ok a. python is like delphi/powerbuilder done properly w/o an ide i.e. it isnt as strongly typed (as pascal) but implements lists and dictionaries as data types and is highly object friendly i.e. python the language is better than pascal the language OK but as a visual tool delphi wins as it has a much better visual component model in the VCL but it isnt really xplatform as to forms being like delphi I was pretty impressed by the Delphi object heirarchy the designer is similar but think delphi for database development only b. comments on C++/C and appserver i will start by saying 95% of the appserver market today is contained in java based appservers i believe in many areas python is faster than java or equal to Even the ERP ones? so if java is up to the task i see no reason to believe python is not Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( AEROSMITH-Sweet_Emotion 15| 5:09 )15=14- Cherukan: have you heard of this little one called websphere put out by ibm I was telling jcater that I administer Peoplesoft, and they use C++ i dont believe 'vendor' hype because a vendor says C++ is only way to do appserver i dont believe it Because they didnt get the speed they needed for generating html code using java java is a pile of shit Hmm, interesting Cherukan: i have long ago learned that using a 'faster' tool doesnt always make for a 'faster' product example our old appserver was in C yet our python common libraries were beating it in performance So Python is a superior option than java? not because python was faster but because python made it easier to write cleaner more efficient code Cherukan: it is my opionion that python is java done correctly it seems faster than java for most things is much cleaner is better license wise Definitely and it runs on more platforms with less headaches i would say if you like python/C or are interested in it and want to do appserver work But is it flexible enough to be writing a robust server in? Oh I definitely am surely someone here will put you to work if you stay around long enough :) Cherukan: absolutely I heard about GNUe for the first time yesterday, and here I am i think python is nice because it handles errors well it is a 'safe' language much as java was supposed to be I have been playing around with python some, but mostly as a subsitute for my unix shell scripts i.e. you can do some pretty dumb things and applications wont crash I like that :) Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( The Cramps - Goo Goo Muck 15| 3:05 )15=14- I mean the 'wont crash' part now as much as i just hyped python i will state 'i believe in the right tool for the job' i believe this job warrants python over C/C++ for two main reasons What? a. its being done in a distributed development environment (so readability and maintainibity) are HIGH priority for productivity Agreed b. most businesses will sacrifice speed in favor of having a maintainable system that is stable also we feel that moving from python to C will not be that horrid in the event we need to pick up speed since we are highly modular we can port modules to C to get performance Hmm So, where does this leave a guy who wanted to get involved with some world-class developers mostly to... ...gain some firsthand c/c++ experience :) I am fascinated by python though well here you wont get lots of C/C++ experience if you wan to get involved with word class developers and gain python knowledge this is a home for you :) i would gladly point you to a similar project in C/C++ but everyone else i know is using java I dont want java Everytime I pick up that java book, I cant get beyond the first 100 pages Cant put a finger on it, but SOMETHING is not right about that language This may not be a good compliment, but Python reminds me of my foxbase/clipper days never used them so cant comment Ok, so whats a good starting point? download the toys and install them and the dependencies and get them working Which ones? forms common designer to start with Oh Are they all written in Python? yes What about some architectural background? What is CORBA? jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317617.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. sup jbailey Hello jbailey Hello. Remosi (dahoose@210-86-57-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) derek: thx for your help. BBL. ok Cherukan (~Cherukan@242846hfc175.tampabay.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. crazymike (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wassup my peeps Action: jcater immediately wonders if he has peeps sup did you catch, um ,ch* yip is this 3-letter nite? Action: jcater awaits the expected "lol" 3-letter response jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp317617.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting" Isomer (dahoose@210-86-57-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: better be nervous im actually getting productive juices flowing just going nuts sigh submitting patches to dcl Action: jcater is scared and hacking on gnue you all are SCREWED Action: jcater is REALLY scared Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( PANTERA-Cowboys_From_Hell 15| 4:06 )15=14- how appropriate :) Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( P.O.D. - Alive 15| 3:21 )15=14- Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( Soundtrack - Soggy Bottom Boys Feat. Dan Tyminski - I Am A Man Of Constant S 15| 3:10 )15=14- hey this one reminds me of 'tennesse' ;) oooooo I need that soundtrack Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( Lynyrd Skynyrd - Simple Man 15| 5:55 )15=14- hey another southern one Action: derek thinks its time to rotate that play list or im gonna start with a drawl in the morning jcater you recall steps for postgres install on debian its been so long since i 'installed' i apt-got it tried to su - postgres createuser said postgres wasnt running um so did /etc/init.d/postgres restart and it said started ok but it didnt really start (ps ax |grep post) shows nothing i tried an initdb but said directory wasnt empty i forget dyfet (dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "nite" Stopping and restarting the postmaster /usr/lib/postgresql/dumpall/7.2/postmaster -D /var/lib/postgres/data -p 5431 -o -d0 PGSTAT: bind(2): Cannot assign requested address Failed to start the postmaster Sorry; the automatic database upgrade failed. Setting up postgresql-contrib (7.2.1-1) ... aegagrus:/home/dneighbo# Remosi (dahoose@210-86-58-35.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@210-86-57-69.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly (~danielb@d85.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise. IsoosI (dahoose@210-86-56-217.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@210-86-58-35.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) IsoosI (dahoose@210-86-56-217.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) IsoosI (dahoose@210-86-56-255.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@210-86-56-169.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. --- Sat Mar 30 2002