[00:02] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
ajmitch (me@p36-max4.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: "http://www.freedevelopers.net"
<dtm> derek: to be in what booth, where/
<dtm> ?
chillywilly_ (~danielb@d156.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly (danielb@d4.as28.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: jcater -> jcZzz
markoi (marko@h126n2fls21o825.telia.com) left #gnuenterprise.
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dtm> hi all
<ra3vat> hello dtm
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<drochaid> madainn mhath
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> hey psu
<psu> hi drochaid
<psu> guess we have chaanel to ourselves 
<drochaid> I take it all pgsql users here got the advisory about the critical bug fixes for v7.2.1?
<psu> whilst america sleeps ;-)
<drochaid> heh
<drochaid> geeks shouldn't sleep .. the slackers ;)
<psu> they have to get themselves caught up on sleep - summer time for them this weekend
<psu> so they lose an hour tonight
<drochaid> ooh, they're late for that as well? >:)
<psu> hey, wars, World Cups, summer time, whatever ;-)
<drochaid> anyways ... I'm afraid I'm going to ditch for a while psu
<drochaid> off for a shower
<drochaid> oooh, cutting comment dood :)
<drochaid> cya soonish
<psu> cu
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~sacha@203.190.196.46) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> anyone know how to modify the linux logout command?
<drochaid> I need to add a 'clear' before the logout happens on slack, and if I can avoid it I don't want to muck about with creating a script to clear then call logout
Yurik (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> hey Yurik
<Yurik> drochaid: hi
ToyMan (~stuq@65.167.123.51) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
IsoosI (dahoose@210-86-57-103.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Remosi (dahoose@210-86-56-118.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
reinhard (~rm@62.47.45.104) joined #gnuenterprise.
<reinhard> umm
<reinhard> seems like amd is on crack or what?
<reinhard> :)
crazymike (~mike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<crazymike> exit
[08:17] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<crazymike> quit
crazymike (mike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201028.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318931.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
jamest (jamest@fh-dialup-201028.flinthills.com) left irc: "[x]chat"
chillywilly_ (danielb@d156.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
chillywilly_ (~danielb@d87.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
crazymike (~mike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
crazymike (mike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: "BitchX-1.0c18 -- just do it."
solibre (~solibre@AMontpellier-202-1-4-226.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise.
solibre (~solibre@AMontpellier-202-1-4-226.abo.wanadoo.fr) left #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly_> wtf was crazymike doing up do early?
<chillywilly_> s/do/so
<chillywilly_> oh wait he's got class
Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> AMD e0x0rz
<chillywilly> er, r0x0rz even
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hi alexey
Action: chillywilly thwaps reinhard
<alexey> chillywilly: hello
<chillywilly> wow, you do speak ;)
<alexey> yes, little
<alexey> :)
<chillywilly> hehe
skeeter (~skeeter@cs666916-91.satx.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> I need some breafusss
<chillywilly> bye
chillywilly (danielb@d87.as6.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) left irc: 
<derek> hello skeeter
<skeeter> hey derek!  Hows it going?
<derek> good
<derek> not enough free time to do things i'd like, but good
<skeeter> hehehe I know what you mean..
<derek> grrrrrrr kids going nuts
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<skeeter> heheh.. mine drove me nuts..
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318931.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<derek> yeah new eyes
<derek> have been out of contacts for a while and reverted to an old prescription or my glasses
<derek> finally picked up new ones and its so nice to see
<derek> (i think(
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
Action: drochaid cringes and hides from derek
drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
ra3vat_ (ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat_ (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<nickr> I could use some new eyes. They are pretty cheap in Taiwan I hear
crazymike (~crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
crazymike (crazymike@mke-65-31-133-230.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
bobacus (~rja29@pc2-camc5-0-cust37.cam.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> hi bobacus
<bobacus> hi
<psu> a fellow NTL customer, too 
<psu> even if I can't get broadband yet ;-)
<psu> any gnue questions, or just lurking like the rest of us ? ;-)
<nickr> <its dark in here, you're likely to be eaten by a grue>
<bobacus> well, I came across gnue on the web a couple of weeks ago, and it looks like an exciting development
<bobacus> particularly if it can replace MS Access :)
<psu> well, it's a bit more than that (or will be, anyway)
<psu> I am (partially) responsible for spreading that 
<bobacus> yep, i've had a look at the web site - it's just that the way i think gnue would particularly benefit me would be by taking away my dependency on access
<bobacus> ATM I'm trying to set up the designer and forms tools on my debian (sid) box,
<psu> the beauty of GNUe Forms as an Access replacement is that you get to use *your* choice of "real" back end database
<psu> be it postgresql, SAP-DB, mysql, firebird or one of the non-free "famous names" DBs
<psu> bobacus - I'm not sure how "solid" the debs are at the moment - I know that some of our lurkers who are Debian maintainers 
<psu> don't think they are wonderful
<psu> but should be enough to get you started
<nickr> the debs are being dropped from the distirbution I think because the latest ones are unbuildable
<psu> It's a tad embaressing for a free software project (and a GNU project at that), but the "easiest" platform to install on at the moment is M$ Windows
<psu> just grab the setup.exe and go 
Action: ra3vat wonders why so many peoples do not like access that much?
<psu> bobacus - I suspect you may be better installing from source on Debian GNU/Linux 
<bobacus> psu: okay, will try that
<psu> I don't believe the dependancies are too awful to hack manually
<psu> and are reducing anyway ;-)
<nickr> bobacus: installing from CVS is very easy
<psu> ra3vat - I think it's fair to say that M$ Access is a "toy" rather than a real RDMBS
<psu> but it gets (ab)used for fairly big d/b jobs because 
<psu> most people on Win platforms have it as part of Office 
<nickr> Access also uses VB most of the time
<psu> and hence it is "free" (as in beer) to them
<psu> The timesheet system at work for instance is all done in M$ Access 
<nickr> I get to learn MS Access soon
<bobacus> ra3vat - i don't like the Access (97) GUI very much - would prefer hierchical polymorphic containers so i can organise forms and queries better
<nickr> that should be, how do you say, fun?
<ra3vat> psu: is there any info like well known Why-not-Mysql only about Access?
<psu> work timesheets are a classic example of (ab)using a file-based d/b when we really need a (small) db server
<psu> there's some very nify VBA code in there to do replication to everyone's PCs
<psu> to keep everything in sync
<ra3vat> psu: i'm forced somehow to use it with the reason described above
<ra3vat> psu: how to find where it exceeds its "toy" limit?
<bobacus> ra3vat: access does horrible locking stuff with its mdb files, which seems to interact badly with samba, afaict
<bobacus> ra3vat: but it can be used with other back-ends via ODBC
<psu> ra3vat - personally, I would say that whenever you go beyond single user
<psu> Acess started as a single user d/b
<psu> and had mutli-user overlaid 
<psu> a bit like Windows, really
<psu> and it shows
<psu> For *real* MS Access horror stories
<psu> I suggest you ask Toyman
<psu> ToyMan even
<psu> "his stories will freeze your very bone marrow" ;-)
<psu> gotta go - bbl
<ra3vat> bobacus: in this case it works only as a frontend tool, right?
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
<ra3vat> horror stories? Is that kind of a story that always goes to the main homepages?
<derek> bobacus: on debian
<derek> get all dependencies from sid
<derek> via apt
<derek> and just get the cvs copy of gnue
<derek> sigh must run
Nick change: derek -> dnAway
Nick change: dnAway -> derek
Action: derek is away: futbol match
<ra3vat> bobacus: thanks
<bobacus> ra3vat: yes, however there are still concurrency issues with multiple users accessing forms, and in my experience MyODBC (the ODBC driver for MySQL) seems to have some strange interactions (mainly cosmetic)
<bobacus> nickr, derek: thanks
<nickr> sua
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318228.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
Yurik_ (~yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) joined #gnuenterprise.
Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
Nick change: Yurik_ -> Yurik
reinhard (rm@62.47.45.104) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect"
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> heya psu
<psu> lo
solibre (~solibre@AMontpellier-202-1-4-226.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #gnuenterprise.
<nickr> hey hey
<drochaid> hay hay hay
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318228.sympatico.ca) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<psu> its the monkees
<drochaid> people say we monkey around
Action: nickr is too busy hacking to put anybody down
<drochaid> lol
<bobacus> I'm playing with Forms Designer at the moment, but I don't seem to be getting very far. How should I create a data source?
<bobacus> (I'm trying to connect to a MySQL database BTW)
<psu> look at connections.conf
<drochaid> I think everyones hiding now you asked that :)
<psu> that has several predefined connections 
<psu> find the one for MySQL & change u/name, p/w etc to your setup
<psu> always assuming you have't already ;-)
<bobacus> okay I set that up and I can authenticate using the designer, but I can't edit the data sources using it
<psu> (That's the "are you sure it's switched on?" helpdesk
solibre (solibre@AMontpellier-202-1-4-226.abo.wanadoo.fr) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1"
<bobacus> What I've tried to do, is to create a new Data Source, and opened the Data Source Editor. But I don't see how to associate this with anything.
<psu> warning - I am almost cratinly the worst person to talk to 
<psu> but the only one here at the moment ;-)
<psu> have you tried the Designer wizards? They do a fairly good job of auto 
<psu> setting up, so I'm told
<psu> just point them at a table in a d/b & away they go
<bobacus> I'll give them a try...
<psu> I know the guys are (rightly) proud of the wizards
<psu> to the extent that they find it quicker to fire up designer & run a wizard 
<psu> for a one-shot form 
<psu> than have to work out the SQL by hand 
<drochaid> we have wizards? :o
Action: drochaid never spotted them
<bobacus> I just tried the Simple Form Wizard, and got to "Select Base Table/Source", selected the table I wanted, and pressed 'Continue', but
<derek> um
<derek> i assume your dataconnection is bad
<derek> your connections.conf
<derek> can you paste your connections.conf here?
<bobacus> I get a python error: ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 10 unsigned
<bobacus> my connections.conf is:
<bobacus> [personal]
<bobacus> comment = Personal database
<bobacus> provider = mysql
<bobacus> host = localhost
<bobacus> dbname = personal
<derek> and you have the python mysql driver installed?
<derek> you running cvs?
<derek> if so can you do me a favor?
<bobacus> I am running CVS
<bobacus> i mean the cvs version of gnue of course
<derek> from the gnue root dir in cvs
<derek> cd common/scripts/
<derek> then run gnue-diag.sh
<derek> er ./gnue-diag.sh > info.txt
<derek> and email info.txt to derek@gnue.org
<derek> so i can see what your gnue enviroment looks like so i can be of more help :)P
<bobacus> i even get errors running that script, but i'll send the output (and errors) to you.
<derek> ?
<derek> what errors
<derek> um what OS you using?
<derek> debian sid right?
<bobacus> yes
neilt (~neilt@66-61-51-107.wo4.cox.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o neilt' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<derek> hmmm seems you have python installed in odd place
<derek> bobacus: please run
<derek> which python
<derek> and paste result here
<bobacus> /usr/bin/python
<bobacus> hang on
<bobacus> that's a symlink to /usr/bin/python2.1
<derek> ok you running bash shell?
<bobacus> yes
<neilt> hello all
<derek> hmmmm
<derek> hi neilt
<derek> hmmm seems your environment is very odd
<derek> but you are running python2.1
<derek> so lets start there
<derek> do
<derek> python2.1
<derek> type that
<derek> then in python type
<bobacus> okay, btw I think python is using /usr/lib/python2.1 because
<bobacus> rja29@purple:~/gnue/etc$ python
<bobacus> Python 2.1.2 (#1, Apr  1 2002, 18:23:14) 
<bobacus> [GCC 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)] on linux2
<bobacus> Type "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
<bobacus> >>> import sys
<bobacus> >>> print '%s/lib/python%s' % (sys.prefix, sys.version[:3])
<bobacus> /usr/lib/python2.1
<bobacus> >>> sys.exit()
<derek> from mx import DateTime
<derek> tell me if that errors or not
<bobacus> fine
<derek> print DateTime.__version__
<derek> and paste here
<bobacus> 2.0.3
<derek> try
<derek> import MySQLdb
<bobacus> fine
<derek> import wxPython
<bobacus> fine
<derek> cool
<derek> seems you python2.1 dependencies are probably good
<derek> exit out of python shell
<derek> try mysql -h localhost personal
<derek> and tell me if you can connect ok
<bobacus> no I need to use 'mysql -u rob -p -h localhost personal' and then enter the password :)
<derek> that works :)
<derek> i.e. if that works you should be cool
<derek> can you tell me a table and two fields in that table for the personal database
<bobacus> Yep, table "Person" and columns "person_id" and "surname"
pattieja (pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> ok go to 
<drochaid> "we don't need no steenking brushes"
<derek> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/
<derek> and download tester.gfd
<derek> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/tester.gfd
<derek> then type locate gfcvs 
<derek> and paste output here
<bobacus> that won't work cos I only installed it today :) i'll use find...
<bobacus> /usr/src/gnue/cvs/gnue/forms/client/gfcvs
<bobacus> so I'll run that with tester.gfd as parameter?
<bobacus> okay, if I modify tester.gfd like this:
<bobacus> -  <datasource prequery="" cache="5" database="personal" name="dtsrcphone_type"
<bobacus> -              table="person"/>
<bobacus> +  <datasource prequery="" cache="5" database="Personal" name="dtsrcphone_type"
<bobacus> +              table="Person"/>
<bobacus> then it opens a form, but doesn't show any data. There are 2 records in the table (checked through mysql cli)
<derek> ok with form open
<derek> click on the little button that paper with pen writing on it
<derek> then click on the little button that has paper with magnifying glass
<derek> do you see your data?
<bobacus> yes I do...i was expecting it to show all records by default
<derek> you can do that by changing that datasource tag to have a 
<derek> prequery=""
<derek> in it
<bobacus> But it's already got that.
<derek> hmmm
<derek> thats right i think cvs is broked on prequery :)
Action: derek keeps forgetting to submit the bug report :)
<bobacus> :)
<derek> normally that prequery="" would make it so your data is autoqueried on start up
<derek> so it looks as though forms works for you with mysql
<derek> now what was the 'issue'?
<derek> designer wizard seemed broken?
<psu> nite all
<bobacus> Designer seems broken. not just the wizard
<derek> nite psu
<derek> what happens that makes it seem broken
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("$TODO$ - include cute quit msg here").
<derek> im updating my cvs copy so i can confirm things and try to fix them for you
<bobacus> okay, I run gfdes, go to File->New->from Wizard...
<bobacus> click on Simple form wizard, click on Run Wizard,
<bobacus> some windows come up, and I enter the Form Title: "Person" and click on Continue (it's filled in the Connection automatically)
<bobacus> type in login and password,
<bobacus> now I select Person as the Base Table and click on Continue,
<bobacus> and nothing happens in the GUI but I get a traceback in the terminal - i'll mail it to you
Nick change: jcZzz -> jcater
<derek> you can paste like last ten lines here
<derek> and jcater 'the designers designer' is here
<derek> so you might get some real help :)
<bobacus> okay
<bobacus> DB000:   File "/usr/src/gnue/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/templates/forms/Simple.py", line 120, in GetStep
<bobacus> DB000:     self.variables['table'])),
<bobacus> DB000:   File "/usr/src/gnue/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/TemplateBase.py", line 169, in GetAvailableFields
<bobacus> DB000:     for schema in source.getChildSchema(source):
<bobacus> DB000:   File "/usr/src/gnue/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/dbdrivers/mysql/DBdriver.py", line 195, in __getFieldSchema
<bobacus> DB000:     attrs['length'] = int(nativetype[1])
<bobacus> DB000: ValueError: invalid literal for int(): 10 unsigned
<derek> grr
<derek> ok dbdriver error
Action: derek admits we here dont care much for mysql and i used test it for us
<derek> but im down to only one box with mysql
<derek> so i havent been a good tester lately
<derek> but its very cool you are using mysql so you can help us test :)
<bobacus> cool :) if I could code in Python I'd give you a hand, but I'm a Perl guy really :)
<derek> we will convert you :)
<derek> just give us time
<drochaid> derek: one box?? :o
<bobacus> hehe
<drochaid> I hope you mean with mysql, and not just down to one box?
<derek> one box w/ mysql
<drochaid> heh
<derek> grr i dont have mysql driver for python on any machines at home
<derek> jcater: you really here?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> committing a patch
<derek> cool
<jcater> bobacus: are you using cvs?
<jcater> if so, can you do a "cvs update" and retry?
<bobacus> will do
stuq_ (~stuq@c5300-2-ip154.albany.thebiz.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<bobacus> cp: cannot stat `/usr/src/gnue/cvs/gnue/common/etc/sample.report-filters.conf': No such file or directory
<bobacus> (setup-cvs.py)
<bobacus> aha! i can now select fields in the Simple form wizard
Nick change: stuq_ -> ToyMan_home
<bobacus> that rocks :)
<derek> when you do cvs update
<derek> try
<derek> cvs update -Pd 
<jcater> egads
<jcater> hang on a second
<jcater> I was in the middle of creating sample.report-filters.conf :)
<jcater> ok
<jcater> should be there now
<derek> bobacus: thanks for being patient
<derek> im assuming things are going well now?
<derek> if not let us know we will try our best to help you out
<bobacus> Thanks, yes the wizard works now.
Action: derek needs his afternoon nap
<derek> bbs
ajmitch (~me@p34-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Nick change: jcater -> jcAway
<drochaid> feasgar math ajmitch
<ajmitch> madainn mhath drochaid
<drochaid> not for another 2 mins here!!
<ajmitch> :)
<drochaid> madainn mhath ajmitch ;)
<ajmitch> :P
<drochaid> tha i breagha an-diugh :)
<nickr> whats this crazy language
chillywilly (~danielb@d100.as28.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> hey chillywilly
<chillywilly> ello
<ajmitch> yo chillywilly
<chillywilly> yo ajmitch
<ajmitch> nickr: what you calling crazy?
<drochaid> hallo nickr, is mise Calum
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> drochaid: is it right to say 'ciamar a tha thu sassenach' to them? :)
<drochaid> LOL
<drochaid> I'd go with the more formal sibh rather than thu tbh ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<drochaid> de an t-ainm a th' oirbh ajmitch?
Action: ajmitch does not understand :)
<chillywilly> dkljhfsdkjf lkjsdhfkljsh dlkjfh s;ljkd fh;sd
<drochaid> nickr ... a'bhean agam >:)
<drochaid> cait a bheil sibh a' fuireach?
<nickr> like I said
<nickr> crazy language
<nickr> spreak engrish
<ajmitch> bah
<drochaid> pog ma thoin :)
<ajmitch> LOL
<nickr> gross
<drochaid> so when is the Scottish, Irish and Manx Gaelic versions of GNUe being released?
<ajmitch> dunno, who's in charge of i18n?
<drochaid> il8n ?
<chillywilly> I'm not sure we have much internationalization built in right now
<nickr> internationalization
<chillywilly> jinx
<drochaid> ahhhh]
<nickr> drochaid: wheny ou translate them, apperantely
<drochaid> nickr: if only I was that fluent
<drochaid> maybe I could get prof. william giles from the school of scottish studies involved
<drochaid> anyone know if Sabhal mor Ostaig have a free translation service?
<ajmitch> what annoys quite a few of us here is that there is nothing at university for learning gaelic
<ajmitch> dunno, i've heard of them
<ajmitch> they have a basic introductory course on their website :)
<drochaid> ajmitch: the only decent 2 institutions I know of for Gaelic is the School of Scottish Studies [part of Edinburgh uni] and Sabhal mor Ostaig, part of the university of the highlands and islands
<drochaid> but it's more that SMO teach standard courses IN gaelic
<ajmitch> dunedin (and the university) promote their scottish heritage but don't have any gaelic language course
<ajmitch> there's been a petition to try & get the uni here to offer a course
<drochaid> do you know if dunedin was founded by people from Dun Deagh?
<ajmitch> not sure, there were 2 boats that arrived in 1848 that founded the city
Nick change: jcAway -> jcater
Yurik (yrashk@gw.telcos.net.ua) left irc: "ZZZzzz"
<drochaid> dunedin just sounds a bit like how you pronounce dun deagh [Dundee]
<ajmitch> ah, it's from dun eidainn (sp?)
<ajmitch> whatever the gaelic form of edinburgh is :)
<drochaid> I'd say the best way to learn would be to do an onsite course with SMO on Skye .... 
<drochaid> bugger, I should have separated that and spotted it :)
<drochaid> /topic GNUe Creating the Digital Future, but only if it's in Gaelic
<ajmitch> http://odin.prohosting.com/highsoc/ <-- an interesting group of people :)
<drochaid> interesting or weird? ;)
<ajmitch> both
<drochaid> ahh ... weird :)
<drochaid> it's great to see revival attempts like that all over the world :)
<nickr> 'hairy individuals'
<drochaid> it's becoming more popular in Scotland again
<drochaid> more TV programs being produced in Gaelic each year [and I mean produced in, not just overdubbed]
<ajmitch> nickr: well one fellow hasn't shaved since he was 16 (a number of years ago now)
<ajmitch> cool
<derek> so bobacus how is your gnue experience going?
Action: derek scampers off again
<drochaid> heh
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> ooh, I made it look purty now
<chillywilly> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~baumannd/geas-schema-compiler.png
Action: chillywilly figured out how to make real arrows ;P
Action: ajmitch takes a look
<ajmitch> it's still spaghetti :)
<chillywilly> that's because you can generate one from the other, etc.
<chillywilly> you crazy kiwi
<ajmitch> crazy?
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> you know I love you
<chillywilly> even if you are a bit warped
<chillywilly> ;)
<ajmitch> warped??
<chillywilly> heheeee
<nickr> uhhh
<nickr> chillywilly: thats not a very useful  diagram
<nickr> make a layer diagram with colors n' shit
<chillywilly> nickr: of course not that's why it needs explanation
<chillywilly> nickr: no
<nickr> everything on there would fit into a layer diagram
<nickr> layer diagrams are easier to read
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> I am working UML package diagrams and such....but after the python ODMG binding
<nickr> UML diagrams are all well and good
<nickr> but layer diagrams really show you how they stack togetherc
<chillywilly> there's accompanying text that explains the whoel thing
<chillywilly> I am working on a concise architectire document combining all the other works of neilt and reinhard
Action: drochaid thinks everyone should use SSADM v4.3
<chillywilly> this is one diagram that intend to include....I don't expect people to undestand it without reading the document
Action: jcater thinks everyone should use raw sql and a text editor
<ajmitch> that'd be fun :)
<drochaid> jcater: :)
<drochaid> possibly with vi?
<ajmitch> ed! ed!
<jcater> possibly?
<nickr> vi!? that shits for pussies
<jcater> it'd be the only thing I'd support
<drochaid> I think vim would be overkill ;)
<chillywilly> no we should write everything in machine code
<jcater> chillywilly: well, no
<chillywilly> by casndle light
<jcater> with vi and sql, we're still arch independent
<chillywilly> er, candle
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you mean burning the code into memory with a candle?
<chillywilly> only is a perfect world
<drochaid> chillywilly: i don't like machine code ... I only got 98% in my machine code exam at Uni :((
<drochaid> told I couldn't code for piss
<ajmitch> drochaid: awww
<bobacus> no no no, you want to be a cross-platform object-oriented distributed n-tier system - make people type GIOP streams in hexadecimal :)
<chillywilly> s/is/in
<ajmitch> big or little-endian?
<drochaid> red-endian
<ajmitch> ooh, fancy
<drochaid> [bet that's never been said before]
<chillywilly> chief coding bear
<drochaid> what about coding via RATM lyrics?
<ajmitch> evil
<drochaid> windows was obviously programmed with 'killing in the name of' ;)
<ajmitch> but not as bad as britney spears lyrics
<ajmitch> 'oops, i did it again'
<drochaid> britney has lyrics??!!??
<jcater> britney certainly has *something*
<jcater> ;)
<drochaid> but not lyrics
<jcater> no, not lyrics
<jcater> although I could be lyrical with what she does have
<drochaid> crap backup dancers?
<jcater> sigh
Action: nickr refrains from making a rude comment
<chillywilly> finally come self control nickr
<chillywilly> er, some
<drochaid> heh
<chillywilly> how reserved of you
<ajmitch> heh, you could do with some chillywilly
<chillywilly> hey now everyday I don't kill everyone around me is a good day ;)
<drochaid> it is
<drochaid> for them
<nickr> I think I'm gonna be homeless.
<chillywilly> I use trout as therapy
<chillywilly> nickr: cool
<nickr> If you guys don't see me for a while its cause i'm living out of garbage cans.
<ajmitch> alright nickr
<chillywilly> nickr: I thought you had a job lined up?
<drochaid> nickr: any particular reason?
<nickr> chillywilly: I have no idea if thats gonna work
<nickr> if not
<nickr> well
<jcater> nickr: now, come on... if chillywilly can get a job, surely you can
<nickr> streets here I come
<drochaid> chillywilly has a job??!!?? :0
<drochaid> surely not
<ajmitch> scary, eh?
<drochaid> indeed :)
<drochaid> anyone want a minstrel?
<chillywilly> bah
<ajmitch> you play & sing?
<drochaid> chocolate :P
<drochaid> it's nearly 1am and I've just opened a big bag of them :D
<ajmitch> mmm
<chillywilly> nickr: a wise man once said to me, "why don't you do something with your life?"
<drochaid> as a side interest ...
<jcater> mmm
<drochaid> who has the claim to fame of the first GNUe consultancy?
<jcater> chocolate is a side interest of mine too
<drochaid> lol
<jcater> jamest, I imagine
<jcater> he's used it for some side jobs
<nickr> chillywilly: how is that a wise course of action?
<drochaid> ah cool
<chillywilly> nickr: get off yo ass and get you a job
<chillywilly> nickr: stop hanging on irc so much ;)
<chillywilly> and being ati-social
<nickr> Heh
<chillywilly> er, anti
<nickr> I have a psychological disorder that prevents me from dealing with people that I don't know
<chillywilly> then make some friends ;)
<drochaid> nickr: I'd consider you for a job, but you argue with me too much and it's just not accep...  wait, I argue with everyone :)
<nickr> haha
<chillywilly> what do you do drochaid?
<nickr> chillywilly: I have some friends, they just don't have any physical proximity to me
<chillywilly> that's sad....almost as sad as me
<drochaid> chillywilly: very recently started an IT Consultancy
<chillywilly> I have 1 friend
<chillywilly> that lives close
<ajmitch> i have a friend
<chillywilly> drochaid: oh really
<ajmitch> nobody else can see him tho
<drochaid> lol ajmitch
<nickr> I have three things that could be called friends that live here
<nickr> I don't hang out with them much
<chillywilly> inanimate objects don't count nickr
<chillywilly> your compuer is not a friend
<chillywilly> computer
<drochaid> and just keep the exterminators out
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> hrm, that sounded weird phrased like that
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> just keep telling yourself that
<nickr> what I should've said is that I know three people here on staten island that could be counted among my friends
<chillywilly> "my computer is not a friend"
<nickr> ah but thats where you're wrong
<chillywilly> am I?
Action: drochaid just shut two of his friends .. uhm, err, computers .. down for the night
bobacus (rja29@pc2-camc5-0-cust37.cam.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "[x]chat"
bobacus (~rja29@pc2-camc5-0-cust37.cam.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> wb bobacus
<bobacus> re, just lurking for now
<drochaid> lurk? none of us EVER do that ;)
<nickr> the grue lurks
<chillywilly> grue?
<drochaid> grue?
<nickr> I don't know you guys.
<nickr> If you don't know what I grue is, I dunne. I guess I'll have to leave.
<drochaid> that's ok, I don't know you either :)
<chillywilly> heh, I don't know you either
<chillywilly> you fucking fucked up fuck
<drochaid> chillywilly: stop fucking swearing
<chillywilly> fuck you, you fucking square
<drochaid> oh, ok then
<nickr> chillywilly: hey, shut the fuck up, theres fucking kids present
<chillywilly> fuck
IsoosI (dahoose@210-86-57-103.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> anyway....
Isomer (dahoose@210-86-57-103.jetstart.xtra.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: chillywilly hits the crack pipe
Action: drochaid is off to bed
<derek>   The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its favorite diet is either adventurers or enchanters, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its horrible fear of light. No grues have ever been seen by the light of day, and only a few have been observed in their underground lairs. Of those who have seen grues, few ever survived their fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
<derek> Grues have sharp claws and fangs, and an uncontrollable tendency to slaver and gurgle. They are certainly the most evil-tempered of all creatures; to say they are touchy is a dangerous understatement. "Sour as a grue" is a common expression, even among themselves.
<drochaid> what be from that derek?
<derek> i know nickr i guess ;)
<nickr> thats why derek is the masta
<derek> I would tell you it was from the Frobozzica, but i assume that would only result in more questions
<nickr> hehe
<chillywilly> what's the frobozzica?
<chillywilly> hehe, had to ask
<chillywilly> you brought it on yourself
<derek> nickr: i often wonder if chillywilly is a cruel puppet.
<nickr> derek: I think chillywilly is a crazed weasel
<chillywilly> asnbj klshbjfklbgwe-fi8y
<chillywilly> I am weeeeeaaaaaseeeel!
<nickr> chillywilly: nice marmot
<chillywilly> IIIII RRRR baboooon
<chillywilly> ever watch that cartoon?
<chillywilly> it's trippy
<nickr> yea
<derek> hey i have a new identity
<nickr> hippy trippy
Nick change: derek -> lucksucker
Action: lucksucker forgot about those
<nickr> eh?
<lucksucker> explains my great affinity to hardware
<lucksucker> and ability to suck the bugs right out of code
Action: jcater hugs his lucky goat's hoof
<nickr> jcater is a closet toe queen
<lucksucker> i.e. a coder feels so lucky to get a nice working commit to the cvs tree
<lucksucker> and the lucksucker comes in and reaps a harvest :)
<nickr> lucksucker: so you're saying you have very good timinng?
<jcater> nickr: did we ever volunteer you to package pysablot for us?
<nickr> you tried to convince me
<nickr> but I'm whiley
Action: lucksucker hears the grues slavering in the background
<jcater> :)
<nickr> bah
<nickr> whats the website again?
Action: lucksucker thinks you should bribe him with some borphbelly stew
<nickr> I have to get up my debiatn AND gnue karma
<jcater> pysablot.sf.net
Action: Isomer turns off the light in derek's room
<lucksucker> Isomer: dont, scared of the grue's and they will come to get me if the lights are off ;)
Nick change: lucksucker -> derek
<jcater> nickr: no pressure or anything
<chillywilly> you folks are warpe
<chillywilly> dd
<chillywilly> woth 2 d
<derek> chillywilly: like a wet two by four
<chillywilly> 's
<chillywilly> er, with
<chillywilly> warpedd
<chillywilly> like a the bench of a 500lb fat lady
<nickr> like the starship enterprise
<chillywilly> s/a//
<jcater> wtf!?!?!?!?!
<jcater> derek: wasn't mdean using pysablot?
<jcater> or was he using sablotron from the command line?
<chillywilly> wtf is pysablot?
<chillywilly> xml parser?
<jcater> xslt
<chillywilly> oh
<jcater> Description: an XSL processor fully implemented in C++
<jcater>  Sablotron is an XSL processor fully implemented in C++.
<jcater>  .
<jcater>  The goal of this project is to create a reliable and
<jcater>  fast XSLT processor conforming to the W3C specification, which is
<jcater>  available for public and can be used as a base for multiplatform XML
<jcater>  data distribution systems.
<jcater>  .
<jcater>  This package includes Sablotron binaries, which need libsablot0 to work.
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> derek: ah, nevermind
<nickr> uh, you guys do know that pysablot was last released in nov 2000?
<nickr> and that its still alpha?
<jcater> I forget w/debian you have to explicitly install -dev stuff to get headers
<jcater> nickr: well, all it is is a wrapper to sablotron
<jcater> so there's not much to it iirc
<nickr> I'll make a deb of it, but I don't think I should put it in the debian archive if upstream is dead
<derek> :)
<derek> pysablot :)
Action: chillywilly is away: church
<jcater> upstream is dead?"
<derek> no more woody
<derek> i.e. they want to release woody as stable on may 1st (or so is the rumor)
<jcater> sure
<derek> those they are blocking all upstream packaging
<jcater> but there's sid right
<derek> if im understanding correctly?
<jcater> or is sid blocked too?
<derek> no should only be woody
<nickr> Pysablot looks pretty dead to me
<derek> ?
<derek> any reason you think its dead?
<jcater> nickr: there's not really much to it to maintain
<nickr> yes, aj said he wants to release may1
<derek> i mean all it is a wrapper to sablotron
<derek> and from what i have used it works w/o issue
<nickr> derek: because its listed as alpha and the only release was nov 2000
<derek> and seemed to have all functionality
<derek> so unless sablotron changes i wouldnt expect a lot from pysablot to change
<derek> i am willing to contact the maintainer of pysablot to see if they have abandoned it or not
<nickr> can you first veryfy what I'm seeing about its deadness?
<derek> thats what i mean
<derek> i will contact the project lead there and say is pysablot dead
<derek> if he says yes i will probably see if he is willing to turn it over
<derek> call me sick but i like it :)
<nickr> whoa, no docs or anything
<nickr> he
<nickr> h
<nickr> well if there is an upstream maintainer I'll take it on
<nickr> it looks pretty trivial
neilt (neilt@66-61-51-107.wo4.cox.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<derek> ok pysablot is probably really dead
<derek> er soory
<derek> misread that
<nickr> ?
<derek>  The very first version of Python extension to Sablotron was created as soon as in May 2000 but it never reached a stable state. The first seriouse attempt is then Guenter Radestock's Sab-pyth  released in October 2000. The latest version is 0.52 and the extension is well documented.
<derek> i read on sablotron page thinking that the first version was pysablot
<derek> but next paragraph reads
<derek>  Just a few weeks after Guenter, Andreas Jung announced his Python bindings for Sablotron called PySablot. The current version is 0.1 and it is still supposed to be an alpha version.     .
<nickr> yea
<derek> iirc there were only like 2 or 3 xslt packages for python
<derek> sablotron and pysablot were the only combo that were BOTH GPL
<derek> i also liked that sablotron is maintained by a commercial company that puts money into the development
<nickr> python 4suite is free
<nickr> and maintained
<derek> i would go as far as saying if pysablot isnt maintained still it might be worth maintaining it
<nickr> hm.
<derek> im really rather impressed with the gingerall folks
<derek> fwiw i suppose in reports and such we could treat it like db drivers
<derek> where you can use your 'favorite' xslt engine
<derek> to me i think one issue with 4suite
<jcater> derek: already there :)
<derek> is it is a REAL suite
<derek> i.e. its a LOT of junk we dont use
<derek> although it does have
<derek>  4ODS is a Python implementation of the ODMG 3.0 object database standard. Different drivers can be plugged in to 4ODS to provide back-end storage, even in other models such as relational.
jcater (jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jcater (~jason@HubA-mcr-24-165-193-24.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> oops, wrong "close" button
<derek> i dont care what we use or 'prefer'
<derek> as long as its easy and GPL
<derek> the 4suite site is SO SLOW
<derek> it makes me disinterested already
<nickr> er?
<derek> its like they are running it on a 28.8 modem
<nickr> heh
<nickr> just apt-get install it
<nickr> ahh fast
<derek> im trying to READ about it not download it
Action: derek is away: date night
<nickr> hrm
<dtm> hi guys
<nickr> hey dtm
bobacus (rja29@pc2-camc5-0-cust37.cam.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "[x]chat"
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318228.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey jbailey
windycn (~windycn@210.83.122.254) joined #gnuenterprise.
<nickr> ohy
<nickr> ahoy
<jbailey> Heya Ajmitch.
windycn (~windycn@210.83.122.254) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
ToyMan_home (stuq@c5300-2-ip154.albany.thebiz.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
windycn (~windycn@210.83.122.254) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp318228.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jbailey (~jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319166.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (jbailey@HSE-Toronto-ppp319166.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_away
<nickr> I appear to have successfully created pysablot packages.
<jcater> dude
<nickr> if those who use debian and pysablot want
<jcater> you fscking rock
<jcater> can I test?
<nickr> Sure
<nickr> sec
<nickr> uploading
<ajmitch> dude
<nickr> 400k
<ajmitch> good job :)
<nickr> it'll take a bit
<nickr> I have 2.1 and 2.2 debs
<nickr> I hope those are the python versions you have interest in
Sacha_away (sacha@203.190.196.46) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<jcater> 2.1 specifically
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> 2.2 for me :)
<nickr> hah
<nickr> well its good I made both ;)
<nickr> http://nick.industrialmeats.com/proj/gnue/pysablot/
Action: jcater hugs nickr
<nickr> hehe
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 03:26:49)
<ajmitch> yo chillz
<chillywilly> wassup, why don't I ever get any love?
<nickr> chillywilly: sup chilly dawg?
<chillywilly> sup d00dz
<nickr> namuch
<chillywilly> okie
<nickr> except I made pysablot packages.
<nickr> It was a fun adventure
<chillywilly> I saw
<chillywilly> good job
<nickr> thanks.
drochaid (drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey (alexey@195.151.214.34) left irc: "Client Exiting"
ajmitch (me@p34-max7.dun.ihug.co.nz) left irc: "http://www.freedevelopers.net"
<dtm> hi guys
mdean (mdean@mkc-65-28-73-63.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<derek> nickr you kick ass
<nickr> thank you :)
<nickr> its good practice for me incase you sucker me into taking on gnue
<chillywilly> I want some love damnit
--- Sun Apr  7 2002