[00:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<return_this> ack ... sorry been away
<return_this> the reason I want to utilize mozilla is purely selfish...
<return_this> I have invested a lot of time playing with xul and xpcom ... and I would like to utilize that as much as possible
<return_this> since I just stumbled onto gnue yesterday... I figured it would be a great application to play with xul/xpcom
<derek> how did you stumble upon us?
Action: derek likes to compile this sort of data
<derek> nickr: how those gnue debians going/
<nickr> derek: oh, that
<nickr> uh
<nickr> "great"
<ajmitch> yo derek
<ajmitch> hi nickr :)
<nickr> derek: actually I've been practicing with other packages
<nickr> getting up to speed
<nickr> and all.
<derek> let me see
<ajmitch> derek: gonna dock his pay?
<derek> print ("The status is going %s" % _(great)) 
<ajmitch> :)
<derek> The status is going, to hell you dumb bastard!
<derek> hey ajmitch
<derek> you spoken w/ jbailey on status of dcl debians
Action: derek really needs to learn to do debians
<ajmitch> yeah
<derek> like asap
<return_this> derek: sourceforge
<ajmitch> i have
<derek> nickr: what does it take to become a debian maintainer
<ajmitch> he's doing them, afaict
<nickr> derek: someone to sign your key and going through the NM process
<nickr> I'll do the debs, I'm just in a strange place the past couple of days
<derek> cvs server: Updating reports/src
<derek> P reports/src/GRDataMapper.py
<derek> P reports/src/GRLayout.py
<derek> U reports/src/GROutputAdapter.py
<derek> P reports/src/GRParser.py
<derek> P reports/src/GRRun.py
<derek> someone has been busy ;)
Action: ajmitch is annoyed that his ISP puts FTP at low priority
Action: ajmitch does cvs up
<derek> seeing how my last checkout was last that 15 hours ago
<derek> nickr: dont make me throw some food in that flat for motivation
<nickr> that would motivate me
<nickr> its easy to call the pizza place hehe
<ajmitch> mmm, pizza
Action: ajmitch had pizza last night
<derek> dood you KNOW i cant do that
<derek> well unless its on a night i already ordered pizza for myself
<ajmitch> :)
<nickr> sweet delicious pizza
Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( RUSS_TAFF-Solid_Rock 15| 4:14 )15=14-
<derek> oops
<ajmitch> heh
<derek> i really need to get so im using my desktop instead of laptop for everything
<derek> btw: nickr you have my dream setup man
<nickr> ?
Action: ajmitch has no laptop
<derek> you workstation/desk area (i assumed those pictures were of your workspace)
<nickr> yea, that was before the fall
<ajmitch> how is it dream setup?
<nickr> It wase awesome ;)
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<ajmitch> jcater!
<nickr> I plan to duplicate it with flatscreens once I get resettled
<jcater> ajmitch!
<derek> if i had a bigger house i think i would offer someone free room and board in a bedroom in exchange for 40 hours of gnue a week
<jcater> I do 40 hrs of gnue a week
<nickr> thats a lot
<jcater> but I don't get free room / board
<nickr> how about 36?
<return_this> derek: I might bite on a deal like that :)
Action: ajmitch does 0/40 hrs of gnue a week
<derek> well i figure it would be a hacker who was a hermit
Action: ajmitch knows some of them :)
<derek> i.e. if food and room was covered
<derek> a part time grocery bagging job at 10 hours a week would cover what little social life they might have
<derek> if they played it right a small consulting job a month would cover new computer toys and such
<nickr> I'm a hermit
<derek> as i would gladly share bandwidth
<nickr> hrm
<derek> and home entertainment center etc
<derek> i would do it, but i dont think the wife would approve
<ajmitch> heh
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<derek> if house were bigger she might :)
<derek> we have boarded folks before
<nickr> I spend 100 hours a week in front of the computer
<nickr> hrm, that doesn't sound like that much
<derek> nickr: liar
<return_this> hey... that would be a great matching service... "Feed and Cloth the hacker"
<ajmitch> no, there's only 170hrs in a week
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<derek> there are 168 in a week or so
<nickr> yea, I sleep 8 hours a day
<ajmitch> well, 168
<derek> and you dont sleep more than 3 hours a day
<jcater> wow
Action: jcater didn't know new zealand had 2 extra hours in a week
<nickr> and then - 10% for miscelaneous urination and such
<derek> 168 - 21 is 147 by my count :)
<derek> and i certain now you arent spending 47 hours out of the house a week ;)
<psu> derek: all that working with accountants has rubbed off on you, I see
<ajmitch> hi psu
<nickr> I do too sleep 8 hours a day :P
<derek> psu: not quite, if that were the case i would ask for last year worth of his webcam files for auditing purposes
<derek> or actually since i work for OMB
<derek> you have 168 hours
<derek> we will budget 6 hours a day (42) for sleep
<derek> leaving us 122, budget 2 hours a day for eating, personal hygiene (14)
<derek> leaving us 108 so we budget 100 for computer time 
<derek> leaving us 2 for contigency
<derek> and from nickr is saying
<jcater> 2 hrs/day for eating and hygiene??????
<derek> our 'actuals to budget' seems to be within acceptable variance
<jcater> you must be a few degrees out of the hacker culture :)
<ajmitch> you only need a shower about every week or so
<nickr> I spend 2 hours every other day for hygiene but eat in front of the computer
<derek> jcater: he didnt want me to mention that 'backup' he has been experiencing
<jcater> rofl
<derek> i figure we put him on 802.11b and we are likely to recoup at least 10 hours a week
<derek> nearly a 10% increase
<derek> oh if i boarded someone i think i woudl give them my laptop and 802.11b
<derek> and let them sit poolside and watch the kids so i can take wife out :)
<nickr> Thats a good idea actually
<ajmitch> hehe
<nickr> efficient use of resources
<jcater> derek: are you kidding
<jcater> I'd get them to take the wife out
<derek> no
<jcater> so I could sit poolside w/laptop
<derek> um i like my wife
Action: jcater looks around
<jcater> laurie?
<derek> rofl
<jcater> are you logged in as dneighbo
<jcater> ?
<derek> no not laurie
<derek> jcater: why two filter directories?
<jcater> ?
<derek> in reports/
<jcater> oh
<jcater> one for your xsl files
<jcater> and one for adapters
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports$ ls
<derek> AUTHORS  CVS  INSTALL  README  adapters  doc      samples       setup.py
<derek> COPYING  FAQ  NEWS     TODO    client    filters  setup.cfg.in  src
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports$ 
<jcater> the last of which you don't need to worry about
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports/adapters$ ls
<derek> CVS  __init__.py  email  fax  file  filters  printer
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports/adapters$ 
<derek> ah ok
<jcater> if you look in adapters/filters
<jcater> you'll see raw and sablotron
Action: jcater likes pluggable stuff
<jcater> even if we never use anything but sablotron
<jcater> I like options
<derek> agree and looked already
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports/samples/foobulations$ ~/bin/grcvs --destination=monthly.xml monthly.grd subtitle="April2002" begin="04/01/2002" end="04/30/2002"
<derek>   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/reports/GRRun.py", line 32
<derek>     from gnue.common import GDebug, GConfig dyn_import
<derek>                                                      ^
<derek> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/reports/samples/foobulations$ 
<derek> after latest cvs update
<jcater> grrrr
<ajmitch> fun
<derek> grrrr == darn i thought i fixed that already?
<jcater> committed
<jcater> grrrr == you interrupted my slashdot indulgence session to make me code
<jcater> but it's committed now 
<derek>           <colhead align="right" width="10">Foobs</colhead>
Action: derek wondered if jcater was a 'foobs' man or not
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> tomorrow, I'll change the report to "Donut Consumption"
<nickr> jcater: are you kidding? make it much more suggestive
<derek> subtotalling looks kick butt!
<jcater> nickr: well, when I get ready to do charts
<jcater> maybe my sample sets should be "hours coding vs sexual intercourse"
<nickr> hehe
<ajmitch> umm ok
<reinhard> lol
<jcater> as hours go up, the latter approached 0
<jcater> s/ed/es
<nickr> you could do a 3d plot vs. sleep
<jcater> sleep? or sleeping alone?
<reinhard> actually free software projects sometimes like to get new names for old things
<reinhard> like gnome uses "druid" instead of "wizard"
<nickr> sleep in general
<reinhard> so for charting we should rename the "pie chart" to "donut chart"
<reinhard> :)
<jcater> roflmao
<nickr> so you correlate increasing sleep with increasing intercourse to a point, wheruppon they are inverse
<nickr> donut chart.
<nickr> hah
<nickr> it'd be more accurate to call it a pizza graph
<ajmitch> mmmm, pizza
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<jcater> well, insomnia hour is over
<jcater> tylenol pm is kicking in
<jcater> see y;all tomorrow
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<deem0N> hi all
<deem0N> could anybody tell if subforms (master/detail) are working in Forms under windows ?
<ajmitch> not sure, sorry, i don't follow forms that closely
<deem0N> also I red that HTML driver is under way (2 projects active), but where are they in CVS tree ?
<ajmitch> don't know, sorry
<reinhard> deem0N: AFAIK
<reinhard> master/detail is working
<reinhard> on all platforms
<reinhard> and there is no "html" driver
<deem0N> any downloadable example ?
<reinhard> there was a java implementation of forms
<reinhard> but that development has stopped long ago due to lack of time
<reinhard> i'm not sure about an example
<reinhard> i think the samples dir of forms should contain one
<ajmitch> there was work done on a UIwebware driver, dunno what happened to it
<deem0N> I was unable to connect to MySQL server from Windows box 
<deem0N> only Post=gres
<reinhard> deem0N: most developers use postgres
<reinhard> so it _might_ be that mysql support is temporarly broken
<reinhard> however they will be happy if you report your problems
<reinhard> because most developers can't even _test_ mysql
<reinhard> forms developers are from the u.s. mainly
<reinhard> their irc names are jcater and jamest
<reinhard> so you might want to return here in about 6 hours
<reinhard> or you might want to write a mail to gnue-dev@gnu.org
<deem0N> basically I liked Forms XML lang, as I need something to base my development on.
<reinhard> sorry that i can't help you more here
<reinhard> cool
<deem0N> I gonna have HTML Forms implementation done for my company need
<deem0N> but I am not sure if it will be 100% implementation of all features
<deem0N> also question is support on Web server side - Java funs gonna be upset, as I like Perl :-)
<reinhard> no java fans are allowed in this channel anyway
<deem0N> for now Im installing gnue on FreeBSD to test it well
<reinhard> :)
<deem0N> thanks to all who respond
<deem0N> also for now I have a bit messed my brain with HTML,JavaScript,XUL,SOAP
<deem0N> it is hard to choose right tool for Web implementation of Forms :-)
<derek> deem0N: i believe the php implementation is in cvs
<derek> or is in process of getting there
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/phpforms$ ls
<derek> CVS  connection.php  gnue-forms.php
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/gnue/phpforms$ 
<deem0N> For me it is very important to put maximum logic on the browser - i.e. to code Forms in JavaScript and reduce HTTP traffic
<deem0N> will check php if they do some JS as well 
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<deem0N> will geas compile and work with Python 2.2 ?
<ra3vat> deem0N: hello, geas is going to be rewrited, that code will not be used 
<deem0N> what about Forms and designer ?
<ra3vat> i don't recall about wheither it compiles with python2.2 or nor
<ra3vat> much better :) 
<ajmitch> forms & designer work fine with 2.2, iirc
<deem0N> 10x
<ajmitch> ?
<deem0N> thanks
<nickr> cor! blimey
<deem0N> anyone ! My form does not do preselect from a Postgres table. I.e. I have 4 rows in a DB, but form shows 0 rows. I can add new rows though. How to do preselect ?
<deem0N> It is on Windows Forms 0.1.1
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<C00ler> hi all
<ra3vat> hello
<deem0N> C00ler is my friend, who is having probs with preselect...
<ra3vat> deem0N: are you able to fill the form some other way like manually "start query", "execute query"?
<ra3vat> via menu command
<ra3vat> hi C00ler
<deem0N> Execute query helps
<deem0N> any idea how to run in it automatically on form open ?
<ra3vat> it better ask jamest or jcater couple hours later, I think it's possible but can't help myself
<ra3vat> many things could be done via triggers
<C00ler> this is Gods ? :)
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<ra3vat> C00ler: are you using any forms with russian labels already?
<deem0N> νες
<deem0N> no
<ra3vat> deem0N: please, let me know when you start :)
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<ra3vat> alexey is my friend, who is not having probs with the forms as he doesn't use them yet :)
<C00ler> :)
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<btami> hi all
<btami> ra3vat: i have good news for you
<btami> i'v sended some bugs/fix to dcl on i18n issue
<deem0N> ra3vat is out for an hour I think
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<btami> ok, me too, pizza time:)
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<ra3vat> back
<ra3vat> deem0N: what version of windows are you on?
<deem0N> 2000
<btami> hi ra3vat
<C00ler> ra3vat: when i using russian letters (under w2k) in description
<C00ler> It create for me file with:
<C00ler> <?xml version="1.0"?>
<C00ler> <!--  GNUe Designer (0.1.1)
<C00ler> Saved on: 2002-04-11 16:26:57  -->
<C00ler> '
<drochaid_> how irritating is this?
<C00ler> Thats all
<drochaid_> I just step out my house to go for a nice long walk, and it starts raining @-(
Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid
<btami> C00ler: hi
<btami> try to use cvs version of designer
<C00ler> Ok thanks for hint
<btami> that will make encoding=xxx in gfd header
<deem0N> will new designer be available at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/snapshots/win32/ ?
<deem0N> or do we need python under windows to setup it from CVS ?
<btami> i don't know the date of the next release, sorry:)
<btami> if you use cvs, you need python
<deem0N> ok
<deem0N> btami: do you know anything about HTML/JavaScript implementation of Forms ?
<ra3vat> deem0N: have you seen http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wxpython/wxPython-2.3.3pre2u-Py22-hybrid
<btami> there is something PHP in cvs, but thats all i know:)
<ra3vat> it's new unicode version  
<ra3vat> pre2u
<btami> ra3vat: please take a look at dcl (last ticket)
<deem0N> hmm, may be it will help, but for now I need to see how Master/Deatils works
<ra3vat> btami: i got it into my maibox :)
<btami> :9
<btami> :)
<btami> ra3vat: what do you think about i18n and unicode in GNUe ?
<btami> win9x doesn't support unicode 
<btami> and GNUe wants to support win9x too
<btami> i think
<btami> but with last bugfix i'v sended, my texts in forms are all correct now
<btami> labels, gnue.conf msgs, input, all ok
<ra3vat> btami: and input into entry box also?
<btami> yes
<btami> i found your old fix in 0.1.1 forms, and it helps
<btami> found=find
<ra3vat> ok
<ra3vat> i think we will not switch to unicode in one day
<ra3vat> i'm not ready to do my forms in utf8 right now
<btami> agree
<ra3vat> btami: can you answer my last email on 2 steps?
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<btami> yes encoding=xxx is needed in form header
<btami> and correct defautltencoding in site.py or in sitecustomize.py  too
<ra3vat> and setting system encoding is also mandatory, right?
<ra3vat> ah
<ra3vat> thanks
<btami> have you read internationalizing topic in wxpython help?
<btami> thare are lots of info about i18n
<ra3vat> will do that
<btami> ok
Action: dsmith is away: meeting
<ra3vat> i'm playing with new unicode build for w2k 
<C00ler> btami can You explain how can i use 'prequery' in datasource tag ?
<btami> prequery=""
<C00ler> when my form start i need to done to actions to fetch data from database
<C00ler> this is 'enter query' and 'execute query' (by pressing F8, F9)
<btami> and cache="5" or something, i think:)
<C00ler> Is it possible to done this automaticity ?
<btami> minute, i'm trying too
<C00ler> sure 
Action: dsmith is back (gone 00:25:56)
<btami> back
<C00ler> nice
<btami> doesn'n worked for me
<btami> maybe a bug:)
<btami> where you read about prequery?
<C00ler> in examples
<btami> oh
<C00ler> <datasource table="unit_description" name="available_units" database="devel"
<C00ler> prequery=""/>
<C00ler> I see that prequery is empty everywhere
<C00ler> So i'm trying to guess what is it for :)
<deem0N> yep, docs looks like stelth technology was applied :-)
<deem0N> wonna know how Master/Deatils works
<C00ler> and all other features too :-)
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<btami> try master/detail form wizard in designer
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<btami> somebody knows something about prequery attr in form defs
<btami> or this is not implemented yet?
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<C00ler> btami i cant find such wizard in 0.1.1 version :(
<btami> you can find it in cvs :)
<btami> try to download a snapsot from gnuenterprise.org
<C00ler> Ok
<C00ler> this one GNUe-Designer-02-24-2002.exe  ?
<btami> no
<C00ler> isit that way : http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/snapshots/win32/ ?
<btami> that is too old
<deem0N> gnue/designer/wizards/forms is empty in CVS (grabbed a day ago)
<btami> try gnue-cvs-2002.04.10.tar.gz
<deem0N> is it runnable on windopws ?
<btami> it is in /designer/templates/forms
<btami> yes
<btami> unpack it, then: python setup.py install
<btami> from common,forms,designer
<deem0N> ok, gotta get python for win
<btami> dont use 2.2
<btami> it has some bugs
<btami> use 2.1
<C00ler> i found 2.1.3 hope its good one
<btami> ok
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<derek> C00ler: prequery is used by doing prequery=""
<derek> unfortunately it is currently broken :)
<derek> i believe a bug is submitted against it
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<C00ler> it will be cool
<C00ler> 10x derek
<deem0N> it will be c00ler :-)
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<ra3vat> btami: what is blocking input of characters above 128, string.printable?
<btami> yes
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<ra3vat> ok
Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_away
<ra3vat> btami: when  I switch to russian i'm getting event.KeyCode() somewhere in range 17xx :)
<ra3vat> btami:it was once so, then changed to the range as in your ticket, now it comes again
<btami> ok
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<C00ler> bye all
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<btami> bye (must go home)
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<jamest_> what parts of gnue common should get documented first to be of the most use to the GEAS conversion?
<dneighbo> db access
<dneighbo> trigger calls
<dneighbo> rpc abstraction
<dneighbo> not necessarily in that order
<nickr> la.
<reinhard> jamest_: db access
<reinhard> that's the most important imho
<dneighbo> i think rpc has to be pretty high up there too
<dneighbo> db allows geas to look at harvesting data
<dneighbo> but without rpc no one can use it :)
<jcater> dneighbo: not entirely sure I agree
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:07:14)
<jcater> I agree w/reinhard that db is at top
<jcater> but we could consider doing the same thing I'm doing w/reports
<jcater> i.e., I'm getting the engine working
<jcater> and a command line version of it running
<jcater> so ppl can develop reports and see what it's gonna be like
<jcater> w/o actually running in a client/server setup
<jcater> if that makes sense
<jcater> of course, the goal is to get a reports server
<jcater> and report clients
<jcater> but it's still usable this early on :)
<jcater> I'm thinking the same thing could happen w/GEAS and Forms
<jcater> that would allow ppl to start using the abstraction-qualities of geas
<jcater> even before we get a solid/stable server/rpc setup
<jcater> iow, start developing apps sooner
<jcater> but that's just my $0.02
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<dneighbo> i only half agree
<dneighbo> unlike reports geas is not usefull w/o client/server other than testing
<dneighbo> imho
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> i do think db access is top on the list
<jcater> my point was to get app development started asap
<jamest_> just to confuse you all :) I'm starting with GClientApp and GServerApp
<dneighbo> im just saying that to be useful the other things will need to follow
<jcater> and whether ppl would like to admit it or not, this would still be usable :)
<jcater> but that wasn't my point
<jcater> my point was to get app development started asap
<jamest_> so you can see simple sample before I dive into db access
<jamest_> in either case
<jamest_> its possible to figure out common by using it
<jamest_> so the docs aren't stopping anything from being developed
<jamest_> :)
<reinhard> jcater: i tend to agree with you
<dneighbo> sigh
Action: dneighbo hates when the point is totally missed, irc communication sucks
<reinhard> jamest_: the most difficult point in figuring out common by using at the code
<reinhard> um
<reinhard> looking at the code and using it
<reinhard> is
<reinhard> that python doesn't do "encapsulation"
<reinhard> i.e. it isn't defined which routines are considered "public"
<reinhard> and which ones "private"
<jcater> reinhard: he's taken off work today to actually start documenting common
<jcater> so I don't think he was saying "I won't document it" :)
<jamest_> oh I'll document things alright.
<jamest_> Chapter 1: usinging GClientApp
<jamest_> 1.1 Intro
<reinhard> jcater: i didn't understand it that way
<jamest_> Use this class to build your apps from.   See GClientApp.py for details.
<jamest_> Chapter 2......
<jamest_> :)
<reinhard> :)
<jcater> reinhard: ok :)
<jamest_> I'm documenting
<jamest_> I'm just asking what's holding people back for utilizing common
<reinhard> just for the record
<jamest_> i'm starting w/ GClientApp as it's simple
<jamest_> then I'll do DB as it's a bitch
<reinhard> it's _not_ the lack of documentation that keeps me from writing geas :(
<jamest_> then i'll probably need some heavy drugs to recover from actually understanding the db code
<jamest_> then maybe I'll get to rpc
<jamest_> since rpc is very much a work in progress it'll be a bitch to document
<jamest_> hmmm
<jamest_> our base app class includes a --conections command line arg
<reinhard> l8r all
<reinhard> bbl
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<rm> oh my god
<rm> bitchx is like a slap in the face when you are used to xchat
<rm> :)
<rm> is this the famous debian ghods channel?
<rm> :)
<nickr> irssi is much better
<rm> mouse doesn't work on the console on this machine
<rm> i'm trying to find out
<rm> why
<nickr> do you have gpm installed?
<rm> i mean
<rm> on the console 7 in x
<nickr> er
<nickr> in X is defferent
<nickr> also, do you have gpm installed?
<rm> i think no
<rm> would i need it for the mouse to work in X?
<nickr> No
<nickr> first make sure with dpkg --list gpm
<rm> in  gpm    <None>         (no description available)
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<rm> i guess that means it's not installed
<rm> ah yes now i get it
<rm> how the output is formatted
<rm> it is not installed
<nickr> Yea its not installed
<nickr> okay, now how did you configure X?
<rm> well
<rm> it was some weeks ago
<rm> i think i was asked a few questions when i apt-get'ed it
<nickr> I see
<nickr> try dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree96
<rm> i didn't use X on the console till no
<rm> now
<nickr> er 86
<rm> ok
<rm> ps/2 mouse is /dev/psaux right?
<nickr> Is it?
<nickr> what kind of mouse is it?
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<reinhard> sigh
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<reinhard> i think i broke it completely now
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<nickr> er?
<reinhard> ok doing dpkg-reconf xserver-xfree86 now
<reinhard> however i found out i have 2 config files
<reinhard> XF86Config
<reinhard> and
<reinhard> XF86Config-4
<jamest_> that's ok
<jamest_> the first is for 3.x xfree
<reinhard> thanks
<jamest_> the latter is 4.x xfree
<jamest_> you have it working now?
<reinhard> so this is probably because i updated from potato to woody?
<reinhard> not yet
<reinhard> dpgk-reconf asks so many questions...
<reinhard> 5
<reinhard> oops
<jamest_> oooo
<jamest_> you have video working?
<reinhard> ok now
<reinhard> X starts
<reinhard> and shows me the login dialog
<reinhard> but i can't move the mouse
<reinhard> and the keyboard is dead too
<jamest_> you didn't disconnect mouse/keyboard did you?
<jamest_> what am I saying
<jamest_> sigh
<jamest_> what kind of mouse you have?
<reinhard> huh?
<jamest_> what brand?
<reinhard> compaq
<reinhard> was packed with the computer
<jamest_> with a scrollwheel?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> rather old one i think
<jamest_> ps/2?
<reinhard> yes
<jamest_> or serial
<reinhard> ps2
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> go back to the console
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<jamest_> ctrl-alt-backspace if nothing else works
<jamest_> then 
<reinhard> just a sec
<reinhard> not even ctrl-alt-backspace did work
<reinhard> machine is rebooting and doing fsck
<jamest_> sigh
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> btw - the new docs are being held up do to docbook issues
Action: jamest_ hugs docbook
<reinhard> lol
Action: jamest_ uses his fingers to hug it
Action: jamest_ hugs very, very tightly
<reinhard> ok i am logged in as root
<jamest_> vi /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
<jamest_> then
<jamest_>  /Mouse
<reinhard> i have a "Generic Mouse" and a "Configured Mouse"
<jamest_> on Configured 
<jamest_> you have device set to /dev/psaux?
<jamest_> and protocol set to ?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> protocol = "PS/2"
<jamest_> try 
<jamest_> ImPS/2
<jamest_> or
<jamest_> Auto
<jamest_> i think the first may work better
<reinhard> ok
<jamest_> other option I've had luck with is Microsoft on older mice
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> the not so nice thing is that the machine is completely dead when X starts
<reinhard> so i have to reset it every time :(
<jamest_> ouch
<reinhard> in "ServerLayout"
<reinhard> bout "Configured Mouse" and "Generic Mouse" are mentioned
<reinhard> s/bout/both/
<reinhard> is that correct?
<jamest_> yeah
<jamest_> it tries one then the other
<reinhard> ah
<jamest_> if you had keyboard support you could run startx from the console
<reinhard> i'm 100% positive i broke something on accident
<jamest_> ctrl-alt-f1 back to the console
<jamest_> then see what mouse it's actually using
<reinhard> how would i see that?
<reinhard> i have other system from where i can telnet
<jamest_> that's on the console when you startx
<reinhard> oh ah
<jamest_> if you're not using xdm like setup
<reinhard> half an hour ago the mouse didn't work either
<reinhard> but at least it didn't hang
<reinhard> and i could use the keyboard
<reinhard> i guess i must have broken something w/ my first reconfigure
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<jamest_> then I'd rerun dpkg-reconfigure
<jamest_> i let it manage my x setup
<reinhard> i did that 3 times
<jamest_> but I don't let it put the defaults in
<jamest_> (the last 2 questions IIRC)
<reinhard> and answered every question to my best knowledge
<reinhard> (where my knowledge is not very much anyway)
<jamest_> did you rerun it?
<reinhard> just a sec
<reinhard> i have to wait for the fsck each time
<nickr> c-a-backspace doesn't work?
<reinhard> i think in 2 minutes i will present you the solution
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<reinhard_> welcome to my working X windows debian machine :)
<reinhard_> please don't laugh
<reinhard_> the mouse is broken
<reinhard_> plugged in another mouse and now it works
<nickr> I insist we barter with the moon to sell the patients cohesive lyrical maps in exchange for a vision of the future
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<reinhard_> thanks to all who helped
<jamest_> sigh
<jamest_> why is docbook broken
<nickr> because it hates alll those on the side of good
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Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard
Action: reinhard now tries to setup gnuef for the first time after more than a year
<reinhard> IIRC
<reinhard> is pyxml in woody?
<nickr> ja
<nickr> I think its python-xml
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> tried pyxlm and it didn't work
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> thanks
<nickr> wel pythonN.N-xml
<reinhard> ah
<nickr> where N.N is the version of python
<nickr> cause all I wanna do is disco machinegun
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<reinhard> hmmmm.....
<reinhard> apt-get upgrade can take quite some time...
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<jamest_> yes is can
<reinhard> what is the best solution to the mxDateTime problem=
<reinhard> s/=/?/
<jamest_> problem?
<reinhard> um sorry
<reinhard> i mean if i get the mxDateTime import error
<reinhard> what is the best thing to do
<reinhard> install other db driver
<reinhard> or install mx library
<jamest_> you have to have mx library
<reinhard> ok
<jamest_> almost all python db drivers depend upon it
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> do i have to get source?
<jamest_> not on debian 
Action: reinhard hugs debian :)
<jamest_> apt-get install python2.1-egenix-mxdatetime
<reinhard> would you mind if i put that line into the FAQ?
<jamest_> go ahead
<reinhard> yeah
<reinhard> my first commit for the python part ;-)
<jamest_> I'm adding the start of the common-techref
<jamest_> so you guys can look and give feedback
<jamest_> beyond "it sucks" as I know that already
<reinhard> lol
<reinhard> what's the debian package name for wxPython?
<jamest_> libwxgtk2.2-python
<jamest_> ok
<jamest_> in common/doc there is a common-techref.lyx file
<reinhard> jamest_: thanks
<jamest_> it won't print worth a damn because something in the newest docbook stuff messed up
Action: reinhard found out the "dpkg -l" command meanwhile :)
<jamest_> but chapter 2 is what I'm thinking about doing 
<jamest_> with maybe an apendix toward the end showing everthing for each class....maybe
<jamest_> if I can get feedback on this I'd appreciate it
<jamest_> btw - i'm not a writer
<jamest_> and I don't take offense at people saying this sucks you need to do something like <foo>
<jcater> jamest_: this sucks... you need to do something like <foo>
<drochaid> jamest_: it sucks ... should I look at whatever doc you're talking about now? ;)
<drochaid> damn .. beaten by jcater
<reinhard> lol
<reinhard> jamest_: not sure if i may dare to ask you this
<reinhard> could you save as text somewhere on ash
<reinhard> i don't have lyx installed
<reinhard> and have had enough fight w/ installing stuff today ;)
<reinhard> not to even mention docbook :)
<reinhard> cool
<reinhard> got gfcvs to run
<jamest_> reinhard you have decent net connection?
<jamest_> apt-get install lyx
<jamest_> and you're done
<jamest_> :)
<reinhard> ok let me try
<reinhard> Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
<reinhard>   lyx: Depends: libforms0.89 but it is not installable
<reinhard> E: Sorry, broken packages
<jamest_> ooooo
<jamest_> you don't run non-free then do you?
<reinhard> not sure
<reinhard> probably not
<jamest_> if you're not against it
<jamest_> then just add non-free in your apt-sources lines
<jamest_> example from mine
<jamest_> deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ woody main contrib non-free
<jamest_> reinhard: something else you might want to do
<jamest_> apt-get install netselect
<jamest_> then
<dneighbo> btw: pyxml shouldnt be necessary anymore
<jamest_> netselect-apt woody
<jamest_> which will make a sample sources.list file for you based upon best performing debian mirrors in your area
<jamest_> is there a wysiwyg editor for docbook yet?
<jamest_> or some doc system that doesn't seem to enjoy licking the bag
<reinhard> texin..
<reinhard> oops
<reinhard> didn't want to say
<reinhard> that
<jamest_> lol
<jamest_> i want something where I don't have to program my docs anymore
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<jamest_> lyx is fine but my using the docbook document class is kicking my ass as docbook is as stable as derek at an M$ Developers conference
<dneighbo> um
<reinhard> lol
<dneighbo> lyx is just wrong
<dneighbo> i would go texinfo if you cant get docbook to work
<jamest_> and docbook is just shit
<jamest_> :)
<reinhard> huh
Action: reinhard wonders if this is the real dneighbo
<reinhard> ;)
<dneighbo> reinhard i never have had issue with texinfo
<jamest_> docbook tools will not work on solaris after hours of trying
<dneighbo> i offerred to use it over docbook in the very beginning
<jamest_> recent changes in docbook somethings broke the packages docs on ash
<dneighbo> the number one reason i dont like lyx
<dneighbo> is its gui only
<jamest_> and have rendered all my lyx docs based upon docbook useless
<dneighbo> unless of course you are a badass with tex
<dneighbo> there are the issues of non free and using xforms etc but my big gripe is gui only :)
Action: jamest_ is about to use openoffice 
<jamest_> just gots to buy that 512MB of RAM and I'm there
<dneighbo> jamest_ at one time i considered that :)
<dneighbo> its just too hefty a requirement
<dneighbo> im honestly leaning towards going back to texinfo
<dneighbo> it would make fsf very pleased
<dneighbo> and honestly i think it better probably than lyx
<jamest_> i just want wyswyg
<jamest_> that's all 
<dneighbo> and docbook has gotten wierd of late
<jamest_> i don't care what it is as long as I don't have to code it
<dneighbo> i.e. they are changing the style sheets WAY toomuch
<jamest_> i've got more than enough on my plate as it is
<dneighbo> jamest_ honestly i fight like hell to use lyx
<dneighbo> it maybe wysiwyg
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> its like m$ frontpage
<dneighbo> it dont do what the hell you tell it to do
<nickr> the problem is frontpage suckers you into thinking you can make html do exactly what you tell
<dneighbo> one day i spent an hour trying to split bullet list in half w/ new headings
<nickr> it
<nickr> LaTeX is similar
<dneighbo> nickr that is what lyx is
<jamest_> lyx does what I tell it
<nickr> I'm saying its the output formta not the editor
<dneighbo> it tries to SUCKER you into think you can make LaTeX do what you tell it :)
<jamest_> it's docbook support is just broken now
<dneighbo> as long as you are writing docs i wont complain what you do them in :)
<nickr> Lyx does a pretty good job in my experience. Its as WYSIWYG is as you can get wy LaTeX
<jamest_> honestly
<jamest_> i dont' care
Action: jamest_ is just venting at docbook at the moment as all my docs are now broken
<jamest_> i'm about 1/2 tempted to switch the document class to something else in lyx and move on
<jamest_> but i know people wanted docbook (i did original docs in texinfo)
<jamest_> so now I'm asking for a docbook wysiwyg editor
<reinhard> lyx tells me that the document uses the unknown class "docbook-"
<reinhard> something
<jamest_> sigh
<reinhard> but the window ends there in the middle of the word
<jamest_> apt-get install sgmltools-lite docbook-xml
<jamest_> and welcome to hell :)
<chillywilly> hi
<reinhard> actually it's not funny
<reinhard> but at least it's amusing that there are less dependencies to run gnuef than to read it's docs :)
<jamest_> i can convert to text but it's a far from complete document w/ lots of cruft in it
<jamest_> i basically took the forms techref and started hacking
<chillywilly> hmmm, docbook is working here
<chillywilly> but I think I am lucky
<chillywilly> and I agree with dneighbo the style sheet changes lick balls yo
<chillywilly> (in a bad way)
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> reinhard: howdy sir
<reinhard> jamest_: reading it now
<reinhard> chillywilly: hi
<chillywilly> whatcha reading?
<jamest_> i'm working on common docs
<chillywilly> cool
<chillywilly> where?
<jamest_> gnue/common/doc/common-techref.lyx
<reinhard> jamest_: looks goo
<reinhard> good
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<chillywilly> bah
<reinhard> i mean content-wise
<reinhard> chillywilly: before you post your next line
<reinhard> please think twice 
<reinhard> :)
<chillywilly> sorry dude I wasn;t going into it and I have been nice about things so there
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<chillywilly> jamest has been very accomodating
<chillywilly> exporting text files for me and such
<chillywilly> thanks you sir
<chillywilly> er, thank
<reinhard> jamest_: it's still not displaying 100% correct but it's readable
<reinhard> for me that is
<jamest_> the tables?
<reinhard> i guess my lyx install is still not completely correct
<jamest_> lyx sucks
<reinhard> however
<reinhard> if all else fails you could print it out and send to me by fax
<reinhard> j/k
<jamest_> it's table support is broken
<jamest_> for display
<jamest_> and cvs lyx is the solution :)
<chillywilly> btw, I think ODL is a good object-oriented schema language solution ;)
Action: chillywilly was reading the list
<reinhard> again thanks to jamest and nickr for helping me today
<reinhard> at least i got gnue set up on this machine now so i can start looking at geas 2
<reinhard> as soon as i have time :)
<chillywilly> don't worry I have lots of stuff to put together :)
<reinhard> :)
<chillywilly> muuuwahahahha
<reinhard> night all
<chillywilly> night dude
<reinhard> and again thanks
<jamest_> nite
<reinhard> i like debian more and more every time i use it
<reinhard> :)
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<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> we will convert everyone!
<chillywilly> we are the dbian borg
<chillywilly> er, debian
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: chillywilly outline grows every day
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<chillywilly> man I got a headache
<chillywilly> I need food
Action: chillywilly is away: gettin' some grub
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<chillywilly> that would not be good fellas
<jamest_> :)
<chillywilly> cya dudes
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<dneighbo> at one opint i felt blocking messages on our lists was silly
<dneighbo> but we have been getting like 8 - 10 spams a day it seems, so now i tend to agree with the decision :)
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<dneighbo> nickr_ is your music in .ogg or .mp3 format and do you have an um 'repository'
<dneighbo> ;)
<jcater> dneighbo: don't you mean "backup archive?"
<drochaid> are you talking about a store of ilegally created music files?
<drochaid> :)
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<drochaid> :o
Action: drochaid has noticed people tend to quit when he talks :(
<dneighbo> oddly enough in reviewing your playlists
<dneighbo> no i mean LEGAL music
Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr
<nickr> mp3
<nickr> I don't have a backup archive thats net accessable because my connection is slow
<nickr> dneighbo: what music were you talking about anyway?
<dneighbo> nickr oddly most of your playlist seems palatable
<dneighbo> of stuff i like but dont have
<drochaid> dneighbo: what sorta stuff?
<dneighbo> i was suprised to see some 80s stuff on there 
<nickr> Heh
<nickr> Yea
<dneighbo> well today the one that caught my eye was mexican radio
<dneighbo> i think yesterday was rock me amadeus
<nickr> been hitting the Low-Fidelity Allstars pretty heavily lately
<nickr> yea
<nickr> I like falco :)
<dneighbo> generally what is interesting to me is that his playlist is 50/50
<dneighbo> 50 stuff i like
<dneighbo> 50 stuff i havent heard of
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<dneighbo> which means there is probably a lot of 'new' stuff i would like that i just havent heard
<nickr> heh
<dneighbo> if it were 50 i like 50 i dont like etc it would be different story :)
<nickr> most of it is stuff I've never heard of but isn't new
<nickr> just been listening to a lot of random stuff lately
<dneighbo> nickr right
<nickr> I was rather pleased to discover LFA though
<dneighbo> i like to 'expirement' with music
<dneighbo> cool webpage script for playlist
<nickr> thanks 
<nickr> its interesting how it all works
<nickr> the webpage just renders the data
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<drochaid> nickr: did you write the playlists web pages yourself, or use something like brunhilde?
<nickr> I wrote it myself
<dneighbo> wow suprised
<dneighbo> i woudl have figured it woudl have been prettied up if you had written it :)
<dneighbo> so unlike nickr to have such basic html (tsk, tsk)
<nickr> drochaid: http://nick.industrialmeats.com/proj/fun-online/playlist.php
<nickr> oh
<nickr> ah
<nickr> yea
<nickr> Heh
<nickr> well its functional, I don't really see how it could be nicer
<dneighbo> i say clean it up make it use .css that is esy to 'skin'
<nickr> Actually I do
<dneighbo> and make a deb for it
<nickr> Heh
<dneighbo> seconds should be formatted to minutes
<nickr> like I said, the way the data gets there is a little weird actually
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<nickr> I have a thing in xmms, the songchange plugin, which runs a script
<dneighbo> the volume xx/xx
<dneighbo> should be a status bar visual
<nickr> each time the song changes, it prepends the songname to the list
<nickr> and chops the list to the rigcht length
<nickr> i then hawe a wholly separate script that runs from cron
<nickr> and it gets the data from the XMMS infopipe plugin
<dneighbo> that does the time
<nickr> fro the 'live' info
<dneighbo> etc
<dneighbo> well its pretty cool
<nickr> Okay
<dneighbo> put it in debian so i get off my butt and set it up 
<nickr> both of these scripts write to a directory that I rsync every minute to my website
<nickr> this also takes care of my webcam and other things that are 'live'
<drochaid> cool playlist nickr ... I like the quote at the bottom :)
<nickr> :)
Nick change: Sacha_away -> SachaS
<dneighbo> well i must run away now
<dneighbo> bbl
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<SachaS> hi chillywilly
<nickr> so thats the elaborate mechanism
<nickr> my webcam operates in a similarly obfuscated way
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<chillywilly> why is it that the people that  no me rarely say hi?
<chillywilly> but all the other people who lurk say hi all the time
<chillywilly> am I that repulsive?
<chillywilly> is there something wrong with me?
<drochaid> hi chillywilly ;)
<chillywilly> hi drochaid
<nickr> blah
<chillywilly> Liberty Enterprise Technologies: Bringing business into the digital age
<chillywilly> is this a GNUe approved slogan that I may use without people getting their panties into a bunch?
<nickr> I liked your old slogan
<chillywilly> yea, but people complained
<nickr> "BUY MY SOFTWEH!"
<chillywilly> they made me renig on it
<drochaid> lol
<chillywilly> they claimed it property of GNUe
<chillywilly> so I am being the nice guy and trying to find something else
<chillywilly> nickr: that was never my slogan it was more like "Buy My Software Bitch!"
<chillywilly> as that's more my style
<drochaid> chillywilly: you could always borrow my slogan ... "Scotlands most inovative consultancy" ... but you may need to alter it a bit :)
<nickr> I prefer the 'EAT IT BITCH!' slogan
<chillywilly> eh...
<drochaid> nickr: surely "SUCK IT BITCH!" ?
<drochaid> eat sounds a little ... final
<chillywilly> "buy my services or be damned to the eternal fires of hell"
<nickr> I don't think it refers to quite the same thing
<drochaid> ah
<chillywilly> that should be an eye opener
<chillywilly> what do yall think?
<chillywilly> btw, I am changing up my logo once again
<nickr> thank you
<chillywilly> but I am keeping the 'cliches' nickr
<chillywilly> it's just going to be arranged differently and more colorful
<nickr> ugh.
Action: nickr holds his head.
<chillywilly> you're the only one to complain
<chillywilly> so you have been out voted
Action: chillywilly is away: jamming on my guitar
<nickr> its not my fault your friends have no taste
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Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:20:17)
<chillywilly> nickr: blow me
<chillywilly> nickr: I only 1 friend
<chillywilly> er, have 1
<chillywilly> besides my best friend and my significant other
<chillywilly> (er, which I meant to say are the same person)
<chillywilly> anyway...
Action: chillywilly is away: jamming on my guitar
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<nickr> unless that person has multiple personalities
<nickr> gotta revolution behind my eyes, we gotta get up and organize
<ajmitch> hi all
<nickr> aj
<ajmitch> nickr
<drochaid_> madainn mhath ajmitch
<drochaid_> ciamar a tha thu?
Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid
<ajmitch> tha gu math, tapadh leit
<ajmitch> it's hot here :)
Action: ajmitch is tired too
<drochaid> it's cool here
<ajmitch> what else can i complain about?
<drochaid> or would be if it wasn't for the four machines under my desk
<ajmitch> ah yes, the uni work due soon which i have got to do... ;)
<drochaid> you work for uni? :o
<ajmitch> i wish...
<drochaid> I'm almost certain I didn't do that till my 5th year
<ajmitch> i have a lab report for physics due at 5pm :)
<ajmitch> i'm only in 2nd year
<drochaid> you've got plenty of time then :)
<ajmitch> about 4 hours ;)
<drochaid> hmm ... I'd have though closer to 3 years :)
<drochaid> but that depends on your course length of course
<ajmitch> heh
<drochaid> any biometrics coolies here?
Action: drochaid is thinking that may be a no ...
<drochaid> :(
<nickr> coolie?
<drochaid> people with interest/knowledge of biometrics
Action: nickr has vague sorts of knowledge about it
Action: ajmitch has no knowledge :)
<drochaid> there's two aspects I need pointers to just now ...
<drochaid> 1. manufacturers of biometrics devices [original, not oem]
<drochaid> 2. any projects to use existing hardware with an OS other than windows
<drochaid> for the most common so far, fingerprint scanners, I only know of Identix and Precise Biometrics
<drochaid> both of which only support windows .. of course
<drochaid> and for once this is directly relevant to GNUe [makes a change for me, don't it? :)]
<nickr> hm
<ajmitch> GNUe? we talk about GNUe in here? :)
<drochaid> lol
<drochaid> I don't ... other people go off topic and discussit occasionally ;)
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<drochaid> wb jamest
<drochaid> oh well, I can see I've got you all excited about biometrics here, so I'll leave you all to yatter away about it while I head off to bed
<drochaid> mar sin leat :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> night
<nickr> never mind your finders, I have blisters on the brain
<nickr> fingers
<ajmitch> heh
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<nickr> and I can hear the music tear ... tearing  through my bones
Action: ajmitch takes crack pipe off nickr
<ajmitch> Program design is what happens while you are waiting for the coffee machine to warm up.
<nickr> sliiiiding deeeper I'm gliiiiiiding
<ajmitch> nice quote from our CS lecturer :)
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> yea
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<nickr> gonna launder my karma
<ajmitch> heh
<nickr> all the lyrics featured on tonights #gnuenterprise are courtesy of Low-Fidelity Allstars
<jcater> *************************************
<jcater> Note to derek:
<jcater> The XSL transforms you were doing for
<jcater> foobulations have been moved to 
<jcater> gnue/reports/filters/SimpleTabulation
<jcater> sorry for any inconvenience :)
<jcater> (seriously)
<jcater> *************************************
<jcater> you may return to your regularly scheduled banter
<nickr> so I says to maud, I says..
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 02:55:10)
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<nickr> sliding deeper, I'm gliding, shooting I am deeper than you
--- Fri Apr 12 2002