[00:11] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<nickr> massive delusions? very probably. I fear for my safety.
<chillywilly> I fear for your sanity
<nickr> chillywilly: get Low-Fidelity Allstars: Warming up the Brain Farm
<nickr> then you'll understand. :)
<chillywilly> know of any good jabber servers?
<chillywilly> that have all the transports
<nickr> 'all'? no
<nickr> I have a good one though
<nickr> jabber.earth.li
<chillywilly> ok
<nickr> thats the one I'm using
<ajmitch> hehe, flatmate took me up on the dare to make something hot for dinner
<ajmitch> he's got an interesting selection of ingredients
<chillywilly> okie dokie
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Action: chillywilly notes that jamest and jcater are hacking away
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<ajmitch> either that or they've decided to escape to real life(tm)
<nickr> They can't
<nickr> they are chained to their desks
<ajmitch> ah
<chillywilly> damn I hate how jabber.org bitch slaps you for loggin too many times
<nickr> hey I should run my own jabber server
<ajmitch> i like my CS lecturer's philosophy: Program design is what happens while you are waiting for the coffee machine to warm up.
<nickr> jabber.industriealmeats
<chillywilly> me too
<chillywilly> ajmitch: bah
<chillywilly> that's crap
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> that was in his sig line of an email he sent out
<chillywilly> damn, now I have to ati 10 minutes until it will let me log in again
<chillywilly> er, wait
Action: ajmitch wanders off again
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Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
Action: chillywilly installed jabberd
<chillywilly> er, installs
<nickr> don't move that! its a load-bearing daemon
<chillywilly> uh?
<chillywilly> hmmm, it says my server does not support agents
<chillywilly> what's your jabber id nickr?
<nickr> rusnovn@jabber.earth.li
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<dtm> hey all!
<chillywilly> howdy
<dtm> chillx0r
<dtm> chillywilly: i made a major business relationship today
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<chillywilly> really now
<dtm> a win/win, a slam dunk, a hole in one, and all that bloody bizdev rot!
<chillywilly> I got my kit in the mail
<dtm> yes, and it's primarily for the benefit of my church
<chillywilly> one thing that confuses me is what licenses/registrations I would need
<dtm> i'm doing volunteer ($0) macintosh IT support for my church now, except under the official umbrella of the company who donates their IT services and who's owned by a church member.
<chillywilly> ROD says it is $11.50 to register a name with the county
<dtm> so now we're on the same team even though his company is 100% pro-Microsoft
<chillywilly> cool
<dtm> he personally is not a platform bigot though
<dtm> so it's doable
<chillywilly> ack
<dtm> oh yeah... and neither am i :)
<dtm> they're a major major IT company for the East Bay
<dtm> full service, network installation/maintenance, intranet creation, ISP (dsl, t1, modem, etc), web hosting, etc
<dtm> that's major.
<dtm> *ksssht* Roger that, Major *krrssshht*
<nickr> Major Asshole
<chillywilly> well I must go to bed mr. Bethe
<derek> chillywilly: what about this slogan
<derek> Liberty Technology: We Suck Ass
<derek> you might not get lots of computer jobs, but surely you will make good money ;)
<chillywilly> thanks a lot
<nickr> ewww
<nickr> and the TASTE
<chillywilly> pffft
Action: nickr blech
<chillywilly> derek: really, do you ever have a point?
<derek> oops i missed that one up
<derek> its 
<derek> gnuebot: It doesnt smell like ass.
<derek> i was trying to be funny and make light of you getting torn a new one for using the other slogan
<derek> so figured you could vary it to be
<dtm> derek: why are you pickin on him   :}
<derek> LT: We smell your ass.
<chillywilly> it's LET fyi
<dtm> derek: BE NICE
<derek> all the better
<dtm> ;ljdsfow
<derek> LET us smell your ass!
<nickr> hahaha
<chillywilly> derek: are you jealous or something?
<nickr> LET us service you
<derek> im teasing you man
<chillywilly> LET me trout slap you
<dtm> derek's been under a lot of pressure lately -- mostly his head.  getting it hit a lot.  he gets kicked by horses occasionally.
Action: dtm passes around a collection for the "derek's skeletal plate" fund
<dtm> ;>
Action: chillywilly donates $50
<dtm> i htink that's what you call those things.  or if not, we could buy Cherry 7up instead.
<chillywilly> we need to keep him protected
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<dtm> yes he's our intrepid fearless project leader
<psu> da masta
<chillywilly> masta of disasta
<derek> reminds me of those commercials
<derek> for samuel adams or whatever
<chillywilly> literally
<chillywilly> anything he touches he breaks
<derek> where the guy comes in and starts saying something
<dtm> we dont want big gangly mite-ridden birds circling overhead, swooping down upon his precious head to feast upon the goo within!
<derek> they hand him a beer and he cant remember what he was talking about
<derek> and then they sucker him into something
<chillywilly> dtm: lol
<dtm> derek: i dont watch tv, especially not beer commercials!
<derek> i think that will be the official beer of gnue
<dtm> except when the tv.....  TALKs ...to me...
<derek> someone comes in and starts ranting about someting
<derek> we hand them a beer
<derek> and then they say 'what was i talking about'
<psu> derek: there are lots of weird named beers in UK
<derek> and we say ' you were saying how you were going to code up <insert what they were complaining about>'
Action: chillywilly had a Killian's Red with dinner
<dtm> sometimes i awake late at night, sitting upright, and i can feel it warm staticy glow even though it's shut off and in the other room.
<psu> sure I can find one with a "goat" theme for you ;-)
<dtm> derek: were you saying something?
<derek> btw: i dont watch tv either (cept diamondback games and other sports)
<chillywilly> nah, he never really SAYS something
<derek> and those beer commericials were on a LOT during the march madness
<dtm> derek: there's nobody named "btw" in here.
<chillywilly> lol
<dtm> who here likes Quake?!
<nickr> me me
<dtm> other than the fact that it's one of the most successful software applications in history, turned GPL!
<chillywilly> Quake deeze nuts in yo mouf
<psu> does anyone know javaguy's real name?
<chillywilly> oh sorry
<derek> nickr: here have a beer
<psu> I want to quote him in the next KC
<dtm> chillywilly: @#*)(
<derek> ian 
<derek> iirc
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> it's ian
<dtm> fyi i am now a Quake player
<chillywilly> I don't know his last name
<psu> derek: got that already - I have extensively googled him +ian +javaguy
<psu> but got no further
<dtm> I hang out in #quakeforge!!
<nickr> I want a beer :\
<derek> i wanna say stewart (but i think thats race car driver)
<derek> let me hit my secret stash and i will tell you
<chillywilly> what about in the java forms code?
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<psu> it keeps pointing me to www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/
<psu> which isn't very helpful ;-)
<psu> same as jcater's problem with xml postcript
<dtm> you know what else is grand about Quake?!!!  now that we've five years ahead of its original hardware performance curve, we can play it decently at medium resolution!
<chillywilly> Ian Stewart <idstewart@softhome.net>
<chillywilly> woooo!
<chillywilly> AUTHORS file in jforms module
<psu> s/all roads lead to rome/all googles lead to gnuenterprise
<psu> thanx
<ajmitch> afternoon
<dtm> ajmitch: night
<dtm> no, weekend!
<chillywilly> ok, I must sleep now
<psu> usually I'd just resort to "It was asked..." and write around 
<dtm> that'd be better.
<dtm> chillywilly: oh yeah.  well take carE!(*!
<chillywilly> yall have fun now ya here
Action: dtm salutes
<dtm> chillywilly: will do
<psu> but it was a failry substatnial conversation ;-)
Action: dtm plays qUAKE
<psu> cw
<psu> nite cw 
<psu> even 
<chillywilly> nitey nite nite
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<psu> i love it when the mailing lists burst into life on a Thurs
<dtm> ok so what on earth are we going to talk about now that chillywilly's gone?!
<psu> gives me a whole week to get it KC-ed ;-)
<dtm> goodness gracious me.
<psu> dtm: chillywilly?
<dtm> derek: stewart the racecar driver?  that reminds me of Primus
<dtm> rubbadubba dub da dup dup da dubby doo!
<dtm> etc
<dtm> psu: that's the one!
<derek> it is Ian Stewart
<psu> thanks
<dtm> derek: so how's your stress level these days on a scale from 8 to 3, where 8 is semi-high and 3 is quasi-high?
<psu> The need to refer to people in KC by name
<derek> 5
<psu> was a real irritant at first
<ajmitch> psu: at least you don't have to remember my name :)
<psu> but I've gotten real good at googling people 
<derek> i hope to get one gnue day in this week
<dtm> derek: mine swings on an hourly basis from a 5 to a 9
<derek> the one SANE day i had you werent here :(
<dtm> derek: fyi.
<dtm> derek: oh ok
<ajmitch> i hope to get in on GEAS sometime
<dtm> derek: sorry to hear that
<derek> i got some translations for xslt reports done though
<derek> thanks to nickr and jcater
<ajmitch> as python rocks
<dtm> well if you people would stop ratchet-jawing here on irc, there might be some work done!!  ;>
<ajmitch> me?
<dtm> COME ON PEOPLE!!!  where are your heads?!?!
<psu> dtm: define "work"?
Action: derek now is 100% convinced nickr is far far more valuable than just lead debian helper to gnue
Action: dtm claps a couple times with enthusiastic rhythm
<psu> dtm: irc is our virtual watercooler
<dtm> psu: ok fill out a ticket for me and i'll hope to do that sometime soon, maybe within 3 months
<derek> someday i will coerce him into our evil scheme to take over the world if for no other reason than get me to stop bothering him ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> so when can i starting helping? ;)
<derek> ajmitch: said the wrong word
<psu> derek: I thought you'd already co-opted him for Doc Store?
<ajmitch> instead of sitting here & annoying you all
<psu> Was going to ask you if Doc Store is now an official proposed "Tool"
Action: derek shakles ajmitch's ankle and puts the denotating collar on him
<psu> and should go on website
<derek> it should be on the site
Action: ajmitch whimpers
Action: derek really needs some sleep
<derek> will be back in the morning
Nick change: derek -> dnSleep
<psu> I'll come up w/something
<psu> I think nickr even had an url for a proposal at some point
<psu> nite derek
<ajmitch> night
<dtm> ajmitch: well we just dont have any positions open right now.  after we pay the light bill and we pay chillywilly and derek for their masterful performance known tentatively as "Pensive IRC Love/Hate Smacktalkers" (they're our stars of the stage) there's just nothing left
<ajmitch> :'(
<psu> pay? someone mentioned pay?
<dtm> ajmitch: but leave your resume under the couch, out past the porch on the lawn beyond the field, next to the adjacent town in yonder state, and we'll get back to you if we need anything.  Thanks!
Action: ajmitch shakes the dust off his feet
<dtm> dnSleep: I GOTCHUR SLEEP *RIGHT* *HERE*!!!
<dtm> dnSleep: Listen here, grandma!  You're in my world now!  Now, either you will _go_ to sleep or I will _put_ you to sleep!
Action: ajmitch steps away quietly from dtm
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<dtm> ajmitch: Yeah I see where your loyalty lies!  Team player, indeed!!
<dtm> I know!
<dtm> I know..........
Action: ajmitch starts running
Action: dtm flings raviolis into the air in ajmitch's former general vicinity
<nickr> maybe I'll sleep too
<nickr> as a show of support
Action: ajmitch rings the mental insitution to inform them of dtm's escape
<ajmitch> night night nickr
<dtm> Bah!!!!  Don't you all want your sauce to go with that?!?!  HUH!?  QUITTERS!!!
<dtm> ok well it looks like i'll be the only one holding vigil...  ALL NIGHT.
<ajmitch> :)
<nickr> hehe
<ajmitch> don't worry dtm, we'll be thinking of you
<nickr> I'm not going for a bit
<nickr> but I tell you what, I'm not going to think of dtm when I do go
<dtm> it would be cool if i had a magic wand to turn you all into honeybees and then you'd make a lot of honey and then i'd cast a spell and put you to sleep and eat it.
Action: ajmitch goes for dinner then
<dtm> mmmmmmmm    magic wands..........
<ajmitch> bbl
<dtm> GOOD EVENING GENTLEMEN <i>!!</i>
Action: dtm plays GPL quake1
<dtm> <<<opengl and in stereo>>>
<dtm> ajmitch nickr:  take care guys.  thanks for indulging me ..  i blow off steam now and then.
<dtm> you're good sports!
<nickr> I enjoy abuse
[01:37] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<psu> dtm: frag one for us ;-)
<dtm> hey i played that just before Quake came out
<dtm> psu: o/~   ... and many mooooooooore!!!
<dtm> you f00lz will be wlecome to a multiplayer game once i ascertain that my firewall forwards that port inward
<nickr> I wonder if dtm could beat quake in 5 minutes
<dtm> so that i may hostificate it
<nickr> I could host it on my server
<dtm> nickr: sure...  i can....   watch QdQ beat it in 5 min
<dtm> .....
<dtm> http://planetquake.com/QdQ/
<nickr> heh
<nickr> I knew it was you!
<dtm> ^---  OBSERVE
<nickr> yea I know.
<nickr> thats what I was referring to
<dtm> nickr: isn't that utterly elite?
<dtm> i can see htat they do it almost faster than i can even think of it, yet i know that it could be done faster
<dtm> i dont know by WHO.. 
<nickr> quite elite yes
<dtm> maybe not MUCH faster
<dtm> nickr: espeically in the upper levels
<nickr> I thought the world record was like 3 something minutes
<dtm> they're firing before seeing the targets
<dtm> nickr: i can hardly bear the thought
<nickr> I imagine it takes a lot of practice and basically memorizing the whole game
<dtm> oh my goodness yes
<dtm> and a type of cognition
<nickr> I can almost picture how the thought process would work
<dtm> to be able to memorize 3d space in a game is not yet my bag, baby
<nickr> I'm more glacial in my processing
<dtm> i used to get sick playing Descent
<dtm> me too
<dtm> i strategize in that environment.  the only way i'm mostly reflexes is in a 2d side scroller like on 8bit NES
<dtm> like Super Mario Bros
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<dtm> but i memorized those levels
<nickr> Ahh I loved Descent
<nickr> I was so good at it
<dtm> i couldn't play it worth crap
<dtm> i have the registered macos cd of it here
<dtm> we played Descent in DOSemu back in 1997
<dtm> or 1996
<nickr> hehe
<dtm> with pc speaker sound
<nickr> I played Descent in 1996 a Lot
<nickr> I played two player over a serial cable cooperative
<dtm> haha i had friends who did that
<dtm> iplayed Doom2 over modem
<dtm> until the upper levels -- too slow on a 486 dx 33 and 14400 bps
<dtm> litearlly too slow
<dtm> like 3 fps or < 1 fps
<nickr> I really liked descent because I like 0 G environments and being able to think in real 3d with no up or down
<dtm> hehe
<dtm> that made me ill :)
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> it'd probably make me ill now a days
<dtm> well ok i'm going to now try hooking up quake1 on my tv and stereo speakers
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> I wonder if I have quake1 data
<dtm> yeah i WONDER where a fella could obtain such data...  ;)
<nickr> oh wait I do have it
<dtm> which happens to be 14MB under bzip2
<dtm> ok i'm gonna hook it up   brb   
<dtm> nickr: we can play that and/or q3a
<dtm> i have no quake2 game data at all
<nickr> I like quake2 better
<dtm> never played it
<nickr> I'll uhh
<dtm> DONT SAY IT
<dtm> NOT IN PUBLIC
<nickr> 'sell' you a 'copy' when I have the bandwidth to do it
<dtm> SSSHHHHH
<dtm> bbl
<nickr> it will be a completely 'legal' transfer of 'property'
Action: ajmitch back
<dtm> nickr: ok
<dtm> nickr: well, in that case...
Action: dtm notes with dismay that quake1 and q3a will not display properly on ntsc by defualt
<dtm> it's just wron
<dtm> g
<dtm> it's not fair!
<dtm> i just watched QdQ episode1
<dtm> i have nehahra but i haven't played it
<dtm> i oughtta watch the movie
<dtm> i started learning quake1 last weekend, and i played the first episode , e1m1 to e1m4, plus e1m8
<dtm> i then realized that i'd accidentally selected the 'hard' level.
<dtm> i died a ton of times from the abominable electric snowman in e1m1
<ajmitch> ok
<dtm> so i think i'll restart it with the 'easy' level :}
Action: ajmitch has not played quake for many a long while
<dtm> coz i have no idea what to expect
<dtm> i can say though that from watching QdQ, the nightmare level doesn't look much harder than the 'hard' level.  in fact much of the game looks a lot less hard than Doom was.
<dtm> especially nightmare
<dtm> doom in nightmare mode had about 820375270 concurrent characters.
<dtm> bbl, playing!@#(*)
<nickr> I sleep now.
<ajmitch> night
<dtm> yay i just beat e1m1-e1m4
<dtm> at 'normal' level
<dtm> it's _way_ easier
<dtm> didn't die once
<dtm> ajmitch: so what are you upto?
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<dtm> later guys, sleep
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Action: drochaid returns
<ajmitch> yo drochaid! madainn mhath
Action: ajmitch is about to collapse on bed
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<drochaid> feasgar math ajmitch :)
<drochaid> if you're still awake :)
<drochaid> suil!!
<drochaid> tha i breagha an-diugh :D
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<deem0N> hi all
<deem0N> I heard geas will be rewritten completely, is it true ?
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<deem0N> also, where can i find SQL scheme for geas ?
<drochaid> hey deem0N
<drochaid> from what I've heard [not authorative] geas is being completely rewritten
<drochaid> I don't know about the schema tho
<drochaid> unfortunately not man people seem to be awake right now, you might have more luck returning in a couple of hours or sending off an email :-)
<deem0N> usual case for me :-)
<drochaid> heh
<drochaid> maybe if you prod dnSleep hard enough he'll wake up ;)
<deem0N> UNIX has no awake syscall, only wait
<deem0N> and sleep :-)
<drochaid> lol
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<jamest> jcater?
<jcater> jamest?
<jcater> I wuv you man!
<jamest> huh?
<jamest> what?
<jamest> go back to bed
<jamest> you're delusional
<jcater> oh, this isn't a dream
<reinhard> i like this one:
<reinhard> "There is a road to freedom.  Its milestones are Obedience, Endeavor,
<reinhard> Honesty, Order, Cleanliness, Sobriety, Truthfulness, Sacrifice, and
<reinhard> love of the Fatherland."
<reinhard> 		-- Adolf Hitler
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<jamest> :)
<ra3vat> :(
<jcater> :|
<ra3vat> it was not funny how he was going his road
<ra3vat> to freedom
<jamest> i was :) jcater
<jamest> not hitler
<deem0N> Stalin kicked his ass and put his freedom into it :-)
<ra3vat> jamest: np, i can :) hitler 
<ra3vat> and :) jcater as well
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<Harald1> hi
<jamest> hey Harald1
<jamest> you know the cr/lf vs lf issue
<jamest> something extreme odd is going on on win32
<jamest> the widget is ok being passed strings with just \n in them
<jamest> however it must autoconvert to \r\n
<jamest> which throws the cursor placement off
<Harald1> jamest: ah, that explains why I hadn't problems, when I tested it in a small wypython app
<Harald1> did you change anything, or are there still problems?
<jamest> I've just been playing
<jamest> i haven't applied the latest patches you sent yet
<Harald1> jamest: well it isn't complete. It just an example of what I think has to be done to convert to \n when storing in the db. but I'm not sure that making a conversion in _tosqlString is enough
<Harald1> but as the widget does autoconvert \n -> \r\n, it could work
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Action: drochaid is away: off out walking in the glorious sunshine [yes, this IS Scotland!!!]
Nick change: Sacha_away -> SachaS
<dnSleep> reinhard: there are probably other quotes from hitler that could be quite good
<dnSleep> the problem with him was his rhetoric was pretty solid sounding until he took power
<dnSleep> i.e. he knew what to say to get where he wanted to be
Nick change: dnSleep -> dnWork
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<dneighbo> ls
<dneighbo> oops
Action: dneighbo nudges nickr 
Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_sleep
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<jamest> anyone know an easy way to translate spaces in a string to \<space> from the unix command line
<jamest> i've got a sh script that is choaking on filenames with spaces in it
<Yurik> sed?
<reinhard> sed -e "s/ /\\\\ /g"
<jamest> perfect
<jamest> i was trying to use tr without success
<reinhard> but maybe it's better to enclose the filenames into ""
<reinhard> try using "$variable" instead of $variable
<jamest> i did
<jamest> gave odd results
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<dneighbo> if you would just use 8.3 like windows asks you to
<dneighbo> you wouldnt be having these problems would you
<dneighbo> just another example to the superiority of m$ product lines
<reinhard> rofl
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<Arturas> Hello
<ra3vat> Hello
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<nickr> I have been nudged
<nickr> sliiiiiiiiidin
<nickr> deeper I'm gliiiiiiiiiiidin
<dtm> @#*)
<nickr> shoooooooootiiiiiiiiiiiinnn Iiiiiiiiii ammmmmmmmmmm deeper than youuuuuuuuuuuu
<jamest> ok trent
<jamest> ;)
<Arturas> bye :)
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<nickr> jamest: so close yet so far
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<dtm> http://home.smuckola.org/robot_insurance.mov -- check it out if you can play quicktime
<dtm> old quicktime, that is
<dneighbo> jcater any reason you started a lyx doc
<dneighbo> opposed to using existing docbook doc in cvs?
<dneighbo> for reports
<jcater> I'm 99.8% sure they cover different parts of reports
<psu> without setting any hares running, do we need to re-think our docs policy?
<psu> at the moment we seem to have a de facto and a de jure policy
<psu> as people understandably want to use a wysiwyg editor
<psu> We could always standardise on straight HTML, and use something like HTMLDOC 
<psu> to produce pdf & ps from this 
Action: jamest just wants docs that
<nickr> I think docbook is the best choice
<jamest> 1) don't require me to program them
<psu> and then people can use the wysigwig HTML ediotr of their choice
<jamest> 2) have tools that actually don't suck
<jamest> i was ok with docbook until i figured out that 
<jamest> 1) the tools work anywhere as long as it's linux
<jamest> 2) the tools work on linux 50% of the time
<nickr> the tools are based on open standards that could be applied to apps on any platform, not that that helps much
<jamest> i lost a good hour yesterday fucking with docbook (yet again) without any success it getting it working on my systems
<jamest> s/it getting it/trying to get it
<psu> does the docbook xslt work with sablatron? XML rather than SGML docbook
<nickr> it sohuld
<nickr> I tdhink standardizing on the XML docbook would be a positive move
<jamest> and I have spent a good day with the jade and openjade and never got them to compile on solaris
<dneighbo> jcater i disagree
<psu> nickr: it *should* work as non-XML for jamest but it don't ;-)
<dneighbo> if the name is reporting concepts
<nickr> jade is NARSTY
<dneighbo> i think it belongs in report proposal
<dneighbo> i.e. the report proposal was meant to build on
<psu> if even jamest can't hack something into working, I fear it
<dneighbo> if its a users guide
<jcater> I AM NOT GETTING INTO THIS ARGUMENT AT THIS POINT IN TIME
<dneighbo> then i agree it should be separate
<dneighbo> btw: im not arguing lyx vs docbook here
<dneighbo> im arguing fragmented vs non fragmented documentation
<jcater> the only existing reports documentation I've seen
<jcater> deals w/corba and communications
<jcater> nothing more
Action: psu will shut up, as this isn;t a useful; discussion on what may be a release weekend 
<jamest> psu: docs are a huge problem for us
<dsmith> I know you guys don't like it, but texinfo is a really nice format.  I used to use it on dos/win systems!  It's easy on the eyes (looks good without formatting).  Has outstanding printed output.  Can be converted into pdf, info, html.  
<psu> jamest: agreed
<dsmith> And it's the standard GNU format, besides.
<jamest> dsmith: yes, we did docs in texinfo at one time
<dsmith> There is also great support in emacs for texinfo.
Action: psu really will shit up this time
<dneighbo> um i still dont know where 'we dont like texinfo' comes from
<psu> s/shit/shut
<jcater> I'm trying my damnest to get some useful docs generated for the upcoming release
<psu> one of my worst irc typos ever...
<jcater> so please let me be
<jcater> we can discuss afterwards :)
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/reporter/
<dneighbo> is what im talking about
<jamest> people wanted docbook so derek went to the trouble of converting everything to docbook
Action: drochaid is back (gone 04:26:16)
<jamest> my biggest issue with any docs is they must be easy to write
<dneighbo> this was a big picture overview
<jcater> dneighbo: that addresses nothing that I'm addressing
<dneighbo> but was meant to be filled with more detail
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> your missing the point
<dneighbo> this is an INCOMPLETE document
<jamest> texinfo and docbook have me spending time programming the docs
<dneighbo> what you are doing now (the details) were to go in it
<jamest> instead of programming GNUe
<dneighbo> dont argue that, you fight losing battle stick with the tools suck its valid
<dsmith> jamest: Really!.  Hmm.  I find that using a wisiwig kind of word-processor thingy does that to me.
<dneighbo> i.e.
<dneighbo> doing 
<dneighbo> <para>blah</para>
<dneighbo> is no more difficult
<nickr> I thought abiword could export docbook
<dneighbo> than selecting Paragraph in lyx and typing
<jcater> dneighbo: ok, we'll use docbook
<jcater> HOWEVER
<dsmith> jamest: I guess I'm just used to it.
<dneighbo> im not ADOVCATING docbook
<jcater> docbook tools don't work for me
<dneighbo> seriously
<nickr> if it doesn't you could use an xslt to convert the abiword xml format
<jcater> so someone else can write them
<dneighbo> docbook doesnt work on ash anymore?
<jamest> dneighbo: paragraph typing is far easier than looking for the error <tag>Something about tags/tag>
<dsmith> jamest: Exactly!
<jamest> dneighbo: it might
<jamest> honestly I don't know
<jamest> it's by the week
<jamest> last I knew it works
<psu> IMHO this discussion (which I apologise for starting) really belongs next week
<nickr> use a standardized text format, and I'll write a perl script to convert them to docbook :)
<psu> once the release is out the door
<jamest> however docbook at home does not
<psu> IMHO this discussion (which I apologise for starting) really belongs next week
<jcater> nickr: I wouldn't be opposed to that
<jamest> docbook at work does not
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<jcater> as I prefer writing text
<jcater> but it's hard to get text into other formats :)
<nickr> just put to cr between each paragraph /italic/ *bold* _underline_
<nickr> you don't really exploit the logical markup that way
<nickr> but
<dneighbo> sigh i dont mind arguing about what format to use
<nickr> whatever :)
<jcater> I was trying to be nice and use a structured/standard format that can be converted
<dneighbo> but that really wasnt my point
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<jamest> we really need chapters, sections, etc
<jamest> IMHO
<dneighbo> im more concerned that we are now going to have two documents that have a reports overview
<dneighbo> that will probably 'conflict'
<jcater> dneighbo: COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPICS
<jamest> if there was any editor that let me easily write docbook
<jcater> I've already said that
<dneighbo> jcater: i think it should all be one document
<jamest> and if I never have to build the docs
<jamest> then I'm ok with docbook
<nickr> I coulda sworn abiword supported docbook
<dneighbo> nickr it does
<nickr> it does!
<nickr> wtf
<dneighbo> its not worth it, you must pry lyx from their cold dead hands
<nickr> use fuckin abiword
<dneighbo> which is why its not worth arguing about
<jamest> huh?
<jcater> wtf?
<jamest> lyx sucks too
<nickr> abiword isn't crusty like lyx
<jamest> it just sucks less than doing it by hand
<dneighbo> again my point was not to bring up the what format is best war
<jamest> abiword is cool if it works
<dneighbo> jamest: i think 99% of our docbook issues are that of staleness
<dneighbo> we didnt keep up with the times
<nickr> I don't know how well abiword would do uhh the logical formatting of docbook though
<dneighbo> our docs are written to use sgml and jade(dssl)
<jamest> we don't have time to keep up with the times is my point
<dneighbo> which is all but dead
<jamest> i don't want to program docs
<dneighbo> so when you get the docbook tools that are now
<dneighbo> xml and xsl 
<dneighbo> there are 'issues'
<jamest> lyx/docbook is dead now too
<nickr> jamest: you should write in plaintext and let someone else 'program' them
<jamest> they change things as often as the wind changes direction
<dneighbo> jamest: probably for the smae reasons
<nickr> its much easier for someone to take a doc and convert it
<dneighbo> nickr thats the idea behind docbook really
<jcater> dneighbo: that link you gave me is for a reports infrastructure proposal
<jamest> nickr: we have tons of .txt docs
<dneighbo> i mean we only use like 5 tags
<jamest> no one has steped up to convert them
<dneighbo> so this 'programming docs' argument is a joke to me
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<jamest> so I started on common and jcater is (trying) to start on reports
<jamest> i hate writing docs if the truth be know
<jamest> i don't need them
<jcater> as do I
<dneighbo> problem with the .txt docs is they are too incohesive and scattered
<dneighbo> and often conflicting
<reinhard> i feel the need to get into this discussion
<dneighbo> so when someone tries to consolodate them and format them
<reinhard> as i suspect one of the reasons for j* to write docs is to make me happy
<reinhard> happy == able to start with geas 
<dneighbo> its nearly impossible w/o getting the original authors involved
<reinhard> so i have to say
<reinhard> i am happy with every doc you write
<reinhard> and i appreciate your work
<dneighbo> i will say since we have doc/ dirs in each tool dir etc it has gotten much better
<reinhard> as i know what writing docs means for a programmer
<reinhard> no matter how and with which tool you write it
<reinhard> thank you anyway :)
<reinhard> --
<dneighbo> but on at least 5 occassions i tried to consolidate geas docs to no avail
<jamest> lol
<jcater> one large doc is much worse than 5 targeted docs imho
<dneighbo> for the programmer yes
<dneighbo> for the end user no
<jcater> No
[14:27] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<dneighbo> becaues FINDING the docs is the problem
<dneighbo> the idea originally
<jcater> Each one has a different audience
<dneighbo> was to have as many small docs as you want
<dneighbo> and then create books from them
<dneighbo> so users had a choice to search for a targeted doc
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<dneighbo> or get a broader picture on a topic and garner all the docs for it
<nickr> should take the whole bodice of documentation and treat it as one book
<nickr> in separate files
<nickr> 'the gnue book'
<nickr> group all the docs for ecah module in a section
<dneighbo> nickr it was done that way at one time
<dneighbo> there was developers guide
<dneighbo> and a something else
<dneighbo> and a module guide 
<dneighbo> and they all made up the Definitive Guide
<nickr> at first you could do it just as an index, and then slowly migrate all the formats to docbook xml, so it could be an actual book
<nickr> actually you could look at the sections as books in a book colloction, and each doc as an article
<nickr> that way you could have chapters under each article
<ra3vat> bye all
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<jamest> hmmmm
<jamest> dcl mail gateway down?
<dneighbo> hmmmm
<dneighbo>  DocPro is a compilation of tools designed to allow technical writers to effectively process their DocBook SGML and XML layout. DocBook itself is a powerful markup language. However, the tools are painful to compile, configure and work with. Command Prompt, Inc. has eliminated the problems associated with the integration of these tools into a production environment.
<dneighbo> We enable technical authors to only have to worry about writing and being productive. With DocPro, users of DocBook no longer need to spend their time just getting the tools to work. Command Prompt, Inc. has created a completely self-contained environment which allows for easy upgrading and maintenance. For more information please see our fact sheet. DocPro now comes with a GUI front-end; click below for some screen shots.
<dneighbo>     *
<jamest> URL?
<dneighbo> its not free. :(
<dneighbo> http://www.commandprompt.com/entry.lxp?lxpe=2
<jamest> :(
<nickr> of course it isn't
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<dneighbo> http://www.inrialpes.fr/opera/pub/Thot/index.html
<dneighbo> could be interesting
<dneighbo> we could always use debian-doc
<dneighbo> which is like a skinny version of docbook :)
<chillywilly> sup folks
<dneighbo> http://www.w3.org/Amaya/
<dneighbo> could be very interesting as well
<chillywilly> still discussing docs formats?
<nickr> and I can feel the music tear, tear through my bones.
<nickr> debian-doc is being abandoned
<nickr> in favor of docbook
<jamest> really?
<jamest> wow
<dneighbo> nickr yeah im a part of that
<dneighbo> so blame me there :)
Action: jamest gets a rope
<dneighbo> as i seemed to ahve 'refan that flame' a few months ago
<nickr> heh
<dneighbo> when i wrote docs for debian jr
<dneighbo> i downloaded debian doc
<nickr> I'm on the DDP list and they talk about it all the time
<dneighbo> and said um this is basically docbook
<nickr> blah blah blah
<dneighbo> why not just use docbook
<nickr> debian lists are pointless, I'm quite bored of them
<nickr> I think docbook xml is probably the best choice in this day and age, just need some tools and infrastructure
<dneighbo> and so then debian-jr maintainer asked that on the ddp list
<dneighbo> and came back and told me thanks for making him open a can of worms ther e:)
<nickr> hehe
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> aren't there tools for docbook xml?
<jamest> sure
<nickr> yep
<jamest> emacs
<nickr> no really good frontends though
Action: chillywilly doesn't know as he's only usign sgml rigt now
<chillywilly> s/rigt/right
<nickr> for silly folks who want wysiwyg
<chillywilly> oh, you mean like guis and shit?
<nickr> yea
<chillywilly> who needs that crap
<nickr> abiwword should be fine though
<chillywilly> I have emacs
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> amaya really might be interesting
<dneighbo> it looks like wysiwyg 
<nickr> amaya is only html though
<dneighbo> nickr it says its any markup
<nickr> hm.
<dneighbo> including mathML, svg etc
<dneighbo> you only need to provide it an DTD
<nickr> also you can't really do mysiwyg with logial markups
<dneighbo> which docbook has
<dneighbo> hmm
<chillywilly> well they use style sheets for presentation right?
<dneighbo> KDE and FreeBSD just moved to docbook for all docs
<nickr> yep.
<dneighbo> gnome alredy did
<nickr> yep
<dneighbo> and sounds like debian will be
<chillywilly> xsl....presentation for your data and more!
<dneighbo> makes me wonder why on earth
<nickr> Debian is also a member of OASIS
<dneighbo> the suite is still such a kludge
<nickr> actually I could join any of the OASIS groups if I want to
<dneighbo> and more importantly there are no good visual editors for it
<chillywilly> does gnome use docbook xml now?
<nickr> stop complaining and write one
<nickr> if they don't they should :P
<chillywilly> dneighbo: we have emacs though
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> it'd be nice if emacs knew about docbook and gave you a nice sidebar for manafging the chapters/books/etc
Action: dneighbo gulps
<dneighbo> it sounds like ther eis a good tool
<nickr> emacs is a great editor but they don't give you enough convenience tools
<dneighbo> http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/xeena
<dneighbo> but it uses java
<nickr> yea
<chillywilly> yea, the emacs thingy could be better
<jamest> i'll take java for a good editor
<chillywilly> "mode"
<chillywilly> I should say
Action: chillywilly thwaps jamest
<dneighbo> jamest: well if i made a dtd for forms or reports etc
<dneighbo> it could be used for them too
<chillywilly> I thought schemas were the better thing
Action: chillywilly is a bit xml illiterate
<nickr> you can convert dtds to schemas
<nickr> schemas imho are way overcomplex though
<chillywilly> *sigh 14MB now to upgrade debian
<chillywilly> I need to get a cable modem
<nickr> I just don't track unstable
<nickr> it takes too long to even do an update
<chillywilly> what you running then?
<chillywilly> it doesn't take too long
<chillywilly> I just go to bed
<chillywilly> when I wake up
<chillywilly> it's usually done
<nickr> unstable
<chillywilly> ;P
<nickr> unstable circa march 15
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> this time I started it in the morning and went to work
<chillywilly> it hs been going all day
<chillywilly> but it timed out probably when my stupid modem hung up
<nickr> I'd have to download 217 megs if I were to upgrade right now
<chillywilly> then I had to do an update again to fix some broken shit
<chillywilly> and I need 14MB now instead of 200MB
<chillywilly> Need to get 13.1MB/234MB of archives. After unpacking 11.8MB will be used.
<chillywilly> ah crap mozilla is brokem
<chillywilly> woddy will be released May 1st eh?
<chillywilly> er, woody
<nickr> supposedly
<chillywilly> you don't sound so convinced
<chillywilly> that's still pretty fucking fast for debian
<chillywilly> wouldn't you say?
<nickr> I'm not convinced
<nickr> but I've never been a release manager so I don't know
<chillywilly> bah
<chillywilly> ok, so maybe they will do it in Aug ;)
<nickr> heh
<nickr> I think things are going well mostly
<chillywilly> then whyt he pessimism?
<chillywilly> why the
<nickr> I just don't think they'll make may 1st
<chillywilly> middle of may? june?
<nickr> yea
<nickr> maybe june1
<nickr> lay on the ground and nobody dies!
<dneighbo> jamest: you try amaya or xeena?
<dneighbo> wright:/home/dneighbo# apt-get install jdk1.1 jdk1.1-dev
<dneighbo> Reading Package Lists... Done
<dneighbo> Building Dependency Tree... Done
<dneighbo> The following extra packages will be installed:
<dneighbo>   java-common 
<dneighbo> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<dneighbo>   java-common jdk1.1 jdk1.1-dev 
<dneighbo> 0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 45  not upgraded.
<dneighbo> Need to get 9114kB of archives. After unpacking 21.9MB will be used.
<dneighbo> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
<dneighbo> i have sunk so low, i think i hit bottom
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<nickr> dneighbo: well, you can only go up once you hit rock bottom
<dneighbo> thats what im hoping
<jamest> amaya
<dneighbo> amaya?
<nickr> zeros pure vision
<jamest> <dneighbo> jamest: you try amaya or xeena?
<jamest> amaya
<jcater> I've used amaya and xeena
<jamest> deb package seemed very html based and unstable
<chillywilly> why you installing the jdk?
<jamest> xeena is java based
<jamest> jcater: do either of them achieve the status of "sucks less"?
<chillywilly> oh
<chillywilly> just curious
<jcater> for what?
<chillywilly> you have to add the non-free section to sources.list?
<jcater> one is a tree-based xml editor
<jcater> the other is an html editor
<jcater> amaya shows promise as an html editor
<jcater> I couldn't imagine us doing docs in html, if that's what this is about
<chillywilly> texinfo!
<chillywilly> docbook!
<chillywilly> texinfo!
<chillywilly> docbook!
<chillywilly> lyx!
<chillywilly> stone tablets!
<jamest> .doc!
<chillywilly> uh, yea when pigs fly
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> and hell freezes over
<nickr> I prefer clay tablets with canaeoform writing
<jcater> I prefer .py files
<chillywilly> code that documents itself
<chillywilly> that would be cool
<nickr> python has the infrastructure for thatn
<chillywilly> fuck docs
<chillywilly> yea, I know it has little doc strings
<chillywilly> but I don't think that would be enough
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> __doc__ right?
<nickr> afaik the whole ref manual is generated from the doc strings
<chillywilly> or whatever it's called
<chillywilly> heheh
<reinhard> anybody know how i can write a cpp macro
<reinhard> using #define
<reinhard> that expands into a multi-line expression
<reinhard> ?
<nickr> \=?
<nickr> er
<nickr> \
<chillywilly> should be no different than C
<reinhard> no the other way around
<reinhard> i want the _result_ to be more than one line
<reinhard> i.e. the _result_ should contain newlines
<nickr> oh
<nickr> why?
<reinhard> because i use cpp to preprocess a file of a different language than C
<reinhard> where newlines are syntax relevant
<nickr> ah
<nickr> thats silly
<nickr> use m4
<chillywilly> I know
<chillywilly> everbody funny
<chillywilly> now you funny too
<jamest> hmmmm
<jamest> i thought a few people only smelled funny
<chillywilly> gah, don't tell me nobody knows that song
<chillywilly> one burboun, one scoth and one beeeeeeeer
<chillywilly> well I ain't seen ym baby since a I don't know when....
<chillywilly> that song rocks
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<nickr> I'm too addicted to LFA to think of anything else
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Nick change: chillywilly_ -> chillywilly
<chillywilly> LFA?
<nickr> Lo-Fidelity Allstars
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<jamest> l8r
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<dneighbo> jcater re: amaya/xeena
<dneighbo> both support reading a dtd and using the confines
<dneighbo> supposedly amaya can work as a wsyiwyg for docbook
<dneighbo> and xeena wouldnt be 'visual' in sense of lyx
<dneighbo> but it would eliminate the 
<dneighbo> do i have all my tags closed and what tags are available
<jcater> the tag issue isn't my big drawback to docbook
<jcater> amaya would work if it really does support docbook
<dneighbo> it was one of jamest larger drawbacks
<jcater> last I looked, they were making good ground
<jcater> well, it is a big drawback, but not my biggest
<jcater> I must run
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<drochaid_> dneighbo: was it you making the comments about SOAP and that other thingy a few days ago?
Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid
<dneighbo> its possible, ive been known to comment on things
<chillywilly> heh, that's the understatement of the year
<drochaid> I'm thinking of the comments about GNUe not using SOAP because you don't wash ...
<chillywilly> that was called a joke son
<drochaid> I can't remember what the other protocol was .. or what was said about it :)
<dneighbo> thta would have been me then
<chillywilly> xml-rpc?
<drochaid> chillywilly: me thinks thoust protesteth too much
<dneighbo> i washed once, but ill be darned if i didnt get wet
<^chewie> hmm
<^chewie> gotta go
<^chewie> laterz
<chillywilly> cya
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<drochaid> dneighbo: you know you can get gels you can wash with that don't require water? :)
<reinhard> night all
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<dneighbo> mm cool
Action: chillywilly is hungry
Action: drochaid advises against eating the cleaning gel stuffy
<chillywilly> ummm, you don't have to worry about that
<drochaid> I'm only worried about getting the photographs if you try it :)
<chillywilly> gee thanks
<chillywilly> fuck you too
<chillywilly> :P
<drochaid> but not in the shower next time, eh?
<chillywilly> a guess my life is not as valuable as your photographs
<chillywilly> s/a/I
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<drochaid> chillywilly: I'm afraid slipknot nicked my philosophy on life
Action: chillywilly waits as the debs install
<chillywilly> perhaps you should look elsewhere for such philosphy
<chillywilly> I recommend Jesus
<chillywilly> :)
<drochaid> JE$U$ $AVE$
<chillywilly> that's very insulting
<drochaid> he's been dead nearly 2000 years, he probably doesn't care
<chillywilly> whatever, you know what I mean
<drochaid> actually, I don't
<ajmitch> what chillywilly means is that Christ is risen & more alive than you are now :)
<drochaid> does he use IRC?
<drochaid> I'm guessing it will be a moderated chan
<ajmitch> umm
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<drochaid> at the risk of further offence, which I'm sure you're aware I couldn't care less about, this is rather amusing ...
<chillywilly> sup jc
<drochaid> http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament/instructions_for_slaves/1tm06_01.html
<chillywilly> drochaid: it's nice to know you don;t care about other people
<drochaid> chillywilly: no chilly, I said I don't care about causing offence
<drochaid> big difference
<chillywilly> same thing
<jcater> howdy ajmitch chillywilly
<nickr> no it isn't the same thing
<drochaid> maybe you could explain that to me then chillywilly?
<drochaid> I can see a very large difference between the two
<chillywilly> if you don't care about offending them how can you care about them?
<drochaid> very easily
<nickr> offence is largely harm one does to oneself
<chillywilly> ok, drochaid that is just taking some things out of context
<drochaid> ?
<chillywilly> the url
<chillywilly> as someone said to me, "what most people don't realise is that 'slavery' in NT times was quite a different story to the enforced slavery of a race"
<drochaid> hmm
<drochaid> I'm not quite sure of your point there tbh
<chillywilly> also some people have way too much time on their hands
<chillywilly> making stupid lego models 
<drochaid> personally I thought it was a creative and unusual visual aid
<nickr> eh its been done
<ajmitch> i like the stupid lego models that have been rendered, they often look quite good :)
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:00:51)
Action: chillywilly eats at his computer ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> drochaid: anyway, it is pretty sad that you feel you have to attack something well all someone did was make a simple suggestion
<drochaid> uhm, you're the one continuing this chillywilly, not me
<chillywilly> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7273/toslavery.html...."someone" pasted this link
<chillywilly> drochaid: you could've just left it be
<drochaid> actually, all I've been doing is repsonding to what you say .. most of it directed directly at me
<drochaid> it would have been rude of me not to respond
<chillywilly> I mad e asuggestion and you just havd a gut reaction
<chillywilly> but this is over now
<chillywilly> sorry, no time for debate
<drochaid> I wasn't aware this was a debate
<drochaid> I thought it was a collection of pointless and irrational statements
<chillywilly> it's some sort of discussion anyway
<drochaid> could be
<chillywilly> you try to be so innocent
<chillywilly> it's funny
<drochaid> do I?
<drochaid> I wasn't aware of that
Action: ajmitch knows why htdig is using mucho CPU now
<drochaid> what I am trying to do is continue responding to your jibes without starting an all out flame war
<drochaid> sup ajmitch?
<ajmitch> drochaid, chillywilly, just let it be :)
<chillywilly> there was no 'jibes'
<ajmitch> put each other on mutual /ignore if need be
<chillywilly> [17:53:24] <drochaid> I wasn't aware this was a debate
<chillywilly> [17:53:43] <drochaid> I thought it was a collection of pointless and irrational statements
<chillywilly> that's a 'jibe' though
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<ajmitch> chillywilly: let it rest, pretty please? :)
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> for you ajmitch
<ajmitch> thx :)
<drochaid> chillywilly: mmm, it was an opinion
<drochaid> and I didn't aim it specifically at you either
<ajmitch> i see htdig is trying to index a few files with 100000 random numbers ;)
<Filace> oo, opinion wars....
<ajmitch> greetings, Filace
<chillywilly> I have noithing further to say on the matter
<drochaid> then don't?
<chillywilly> do you have to have the last word?
<drochaid> only as much as you apparently
<drochaid> maybe we could ask ajmitch to have the last word, is that reasonable?
<ajmitch> the last word to you both is 'shutup' :)
<drochaid> hmm ... I would have gone for 'Zyrian' or similar .. but no matter ;)
<ajmitch> now, onto GNUe stuff
<ajmitch> chillywilly: how's GEAS planning coming along, can i help in anyway?
Action: chillywilly is working on python ODMG binding
<chillywilly> ummm
<chillywilly> you can implement the collection classes in python
<chillywilly> ;)
<ajmitch> hmm
Action: ajmitch fires up emacs
<ajmitch> what are the collection classes, and what probs were you having?
<chillywilly> I am not having any problems
<chillywilly> just something that needs ot be done
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> so list them for me ;)
<chillywilly> odmg.txt
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> some of them should contain lists as a member
<ajmitch> alrighty
<chillywilly> some contain a dictionary
<chillywilly> andn we should implement the methods for emilating those types
<chillywilly> er, emulating
<chillywilly> the __method__ type methods
<chillywilly> and the list or dictionary interface
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> (depednign on which type it shoudl be most like
<chillywilly> and also some op methods
<chillywilly> like
<chillywilly> __add__
<ajmitch> i see you can override <, >, and == comparisons as well in python
<chillywilly> and the ODMG interfaces
<ajmitch> using __cmp__
<chillywilly> which can be implemented by derived classes
<chillywilly> so they should be more like abstract classes
<chillywilly> that implement eh python stuff
<ajmitch> ok, dunno how long this will take, i have a few more important things to do ;)
<chillywilly> and leave the ODMG methods alone for children to implement
<chillywilly> I think
<chillywilly> well
<chillywilly> I'll work on it then
<chillywilly> I am hoping to get the the point of difining the odmg collections classes in python
<ajmitch> oh, alright
<chillywilly> I don;t think they'll get done immediately
<chillywilly> so there's room to help there
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<ajmitch> since i wouldn't be able to do it this weekend
<chillywilly> well you do what little you can
<chillywilly> no big deal
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> ok, i'm heading off now anyway
<drochaid> cya ajmitch
<drochaid> sleep or just off?
<ajmitch> off, it's 11am
<ajmitch> am going to visit my parents, then someone else...
<chillywilly> have fun
<drochaid> 11am? so it IS time for bed then? :)
<ajmitch> mmm, bkuhn on dotgnu list
<chillywilly> run!
<chillywilly> oops
<chillywilly> please strike that form the record ;)
<chillywilly> er, from
<ajmitch> suggesting another irc meeting for GNUe, phpgw, and dotgnu over rpc stuff (including jabber )
<chillywilly> what's jabber got to do with it?
<chillywilly> I don't undertsand how it fits in
<chillywilly> jabber is sort of a SOAP replacement
<chillywilly> ?
<ajmitch> yeah, so?
<ajmitch> read his messages on the dotgnu list
<nickr> jabber isn't exactly a soap replacement
<chillywilly> ok
Action: ajmitch leaves now :)
<chillywilly> nickr: they call it messagin middleware
<chillywilly> that could be SOAP, CORBA, etc.
<chillywilly> we can support soap as we do all the others
<chillywilly> er, jabber
<chillywilly> but it's not going to be a defacto standard or anything
<chillywilly> our objective is to provide choice, imho
<nickr> I'm just saying its not exactly a soap replacement, I didn't say anything about aything else.
<chillywilly> (please note I am saying this without even reading the message yet ;) )
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<chillywilly> nickr: I was just speaking generally and not directed at you
<chillywilly> ah nevermind
<chillywilly> I don't wtf I am talking about anyway
<chillywilly> I'm a moron
Action: chillywilly goess off to get more food
<chillywilly> I was getting all defensive for nothing
<chillywilly> I blame drochaid
<chillywilly> ;)
<drochaid> and I blame religious intolerance and the smurfs [mainly the smurfs]
<chillywilly> I hope you are nto assuming I am intolerant
<chillywilly> that wouldn't be very nice
<nickr> smurfs are horrible
<chillywilly> they taste great though
<chillywilly> drochaid: nevermind, I need to lighten up a bit today it's friday
<chillywilly> woooo!
<chillywilly> dude this blows
<chillywilly> Registering /usr/share/omf/gnome-core/panel-it.omf
<chillywilly> scrollkeeper-update: relocation error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: pthread_once
<chillywilly> er...
<chillywilly> Unpacking replacement gnome-gv ...
<chillywilly> Registering /usr/share/omf/gnome-core/panel-it.omf
<chillywilly> scrollkeeper-update: relocation error: /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2: undefined symbol: pthread_once
<nickr> that ain't good
<chillywilly> no it's not
<chillywilly> :(
<chillywilly> I need my ggnome-gv
<nickr> stupid friday night.
<drochaid> but it's saturday morning!!
<chillywilly> only for you european freaks
<drochaid> ajmitch is european?
<drochaid> I thought he was an aussie
<chillywilly> nope
<chillywilly> kiwi
<chillywilly> and I wasn't including him
<drochaid> oh aye .. I was close
<drochaid> don't tell him I said that :)
<chillywilly> heheh
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<jamest> hello
<nickr> re jamest
<chillywilly> sup dawg
<jamest> gnue
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<jcater> gnue's up?
<jcater> always seems to keep me down
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<jamest> :)
Action: chillywilly is away: family time
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<nickr> oy veh
<nickr> jabber looks nontrivial to setup
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<nickr> plus there are arm bugs :P
<drochaid> it's the leg bugs that really irritate me tho ...
<nickr> head bugs are worse
<drochaid> voluntary decapitation can solve that
<nickr> indeed
<drochaid> I mean, I'm fairly certain that if you ask someone who has been voluntarily devapitated if he *choose* that path, he may well stay silent on the issue
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Nick change: dneighbo -> derek
<nickr> re derek
<jcater> howdy derek
<derek> yo
<derek> i really like my desktop machine, if only i could get a better xserver for it
<derek> and get my sound hooked up to stereo ;)
<derek> and...
[20:54] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<derek> nickr: you will have to kick me down some lo fidelity allstars
<drochaid> sounds like you need win2k dood :)
Action: drochaid thinks it may be wise to leave now
<drochaid> mar sin leat :)
<nickr> roger
<jcater> derek: you here?
<derek> yeah
<derek> i cant for some reason on my home machine do 'posts' to mail.gnu.org
<derek> to manage mailing lists :(
<jamest> it's been that way for a while
<jamest> IIRC something about cookies or something
<derek> hmmm
<derek> at work it works
<derek> w/ galeon
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I have to use an old netscape to do it
<derek> guess just different version
<jcater> konq (on the same machine) won't work
<derek> i think my galeon at work is pretty old
<jcater> nor will mozilla
<jcater> :(
<derek> as even though i updated sid the other day
<derek> it skipped galeon
<derek> im getting newest galeon now
<derek> and going to retry
<nickr> hrm
<nickr> anyone have an idea about hov to get java working in galeon?
<jcater> derek: you get my message about your xsl scripts being moved?
<derek> briefly
<derek> i didnt see where (well i did, i just didnt write it down)
<jcater> reports/filters/SimpleTabulation
Action: ajmitch back
<jcater> cool thing is
<jcater> now you can do
<jcater> ~/bin/grcvs --filter html -d output.html monthly.grd
<jcater> or
<jcater> ~/bin/grcvs --filter text -d output.html monthly.grd
<derek> yummy
<derek> aegagrus:/home/dneighbo# apt-get install galeon
<derek> Reading Package Lists... Done
<derek> Building Dependency Tree... Done
<derek> The following extra packages will be installed:
<derek>   docbook-xml scrollkeeper sgml-base sgml-data 
<derek> The following NEW packages will be installed:
<derek>   docbook-xml sgml-base sgml-data 
<derek> 2 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 60  not upgraded.
<derek> Need to get 2954kB of archives. After unpacking 3049kB will be used.
<derek> thats funny
<jcater> you can also do
<jcater> ~/bin/grcvs --filter html -D email -d derek@gnue.org monthly.grd
<derek> does that use perl?
<jcater> perl?
<derek> the email portion
<jcater> that's all part of gnue reports
<jcater> all done w/in python
<derek> ok
<derek> btw: reason i asked was the other mail merge thing was in perl
<derek> didnt know if you were 'reusing' any of that (FIRU
<derek> NO
<derek> RRRR I HATEE THIS KEY BOARD
Action: jcater is confused
<jcater> what is a FIRU
<derek> FIGURED NO
<derek> KLJFDSLKJFDS:LK
<jcater> wow
<nickr> ar you okay?
<jcater> that's eloquent
<derek> I HIT CAPSLOCK AND NOW IT WONT SHUT OFF
<derek> IRRATING
<derek> JJJNJJDSDSDJKJLKJLKJLKJKJLKLJKLKJ
<derek> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Action: ajmitch lends derek a hammer
<derek> SIGH
<jamest> rofl
<derek> IN WINDOWS THIS WOULDNT BE END OF WORLD
<derek> BUT IN UNIX BEING ONLY CAPS LOCKS IN Very painful
<jamest> um
<derek> yeah it fixed itself
<jamest> unplug it from back of pc
<jamest> plug back in
<jamest> maybe ?
<derek> its fixed now
<derek> like its owner its slightly unstable
<derek> btw: pax 217 kick arse
<jamest> slightly?
<nickr> PAX?
<ajmitch> eh?
<derek> PAX217
<derek> its a group
<jamest> of what?
Action: jamest runs
<derek> can you all tell chillywilly to stop having his personal mail sent to the announce list:
<derek> From:  cranchtobin@cloudnine.com    Subject:  Newest Free Porn Pics & Videos!!!    Reason:  Post to moderated list
<derek> sigh, newest galeon no workie either :(
<derek> safe to assume this is a problem w/ mailman?
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<jcater> well
<jcater> galeon, mozilla, and konq all no workie
<derek> hey yummy
<jcater> so I'd say so
<derek> it works now
Action: derek scratches head
<derek> jcater you get sap news?\
<derek> Please see the new documents:
<jcater> I subscribe to WSJ
<derek> Oracle SQL Mode: SAP DB 7.3
<derek> The document describes the differences in logical data storage and the
<derek> definition of SQL syntax for the database systems Oracle Version 7 and SAP
<derek> DB Version 7.3, ORACLE SQL mode
<jcater> it's pretty sappy
<derek> might be interesting to you
<jcater> yip
<jcater> cool
<derek> it is in SAP DB online docs
<derek> i.e. this was a bulletin that those docs have been updated, that was one section that got updating
<jamest> l8r 
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<derek> hey nickr you were listening to tangerine dream a while back werent you?
<nickr> yea
<nickr> I will probably buy their albumn Transsiberia
<nickr> but I don't like a lot of their other stuff
<derek> you listen to
<derek> king crimson, california guitar trio, tony levin, robert fripp or the such?
<nickr> I haven't no
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<nickr> ARGH
<nickr> the debian package of jre doesn't have the mozilla plugin :(
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Action: chillywilly is back (gone 02:56:37)
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--- Sat Apr 13 2002