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<ra3vat> hi all
<ajmitch> hi ra3vat
<chillywilly> hey ra3vat
<chillywilly> how's it shakin'?
<ra3vat> shakin'?
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Action: chillywilly is away: zzzzzZZZZ
Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzzZZZZ
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<ajmitch> yo derek
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<psu> huh
<ajmitch> psu!
<psu> chillywilly gets to zzz now
Action: ajmitch falls down in awe
<psu> he's a power cable user ;-/
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: ajmitch doesn't bother with nick changing :)
Nick change: psu -> psu_awake
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu_awake> me either - it's very ostentatious
Nick change: psu_awake -> psu
<ajmitch> when's KC 26 due?
<psu> end of the week
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> chillywilly & i are planning a geas discussion for this weekend, anyway
<psu> KC week runs Thu-Wed, with 3 days at the end to get things sorted
<ajmitch> mainly the 2 of us & whoever else decides to join in :)
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Action: psu does some preparatory work - 
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<psu> <section title="GNUe Application Server b1tchfest" startdate="27 Apr 2002">
<psu> ;-)
<ajmitch> lol
<ajmitch> it might turn into that yet
<ajmitch> i dunno
<ajmitch> well i hope that we can get something constructive planned
Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS
<nickr> ooh, I want in on this bitchfest
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu> nickr: gentlemen are requested to leave their trout behind the bar
<psu> as in all the best westerns
<ajmitch> ok, currently spamming the DotGNU list with stuff about GEAS - some poor sod asked about an appserver :)
<nickr> lol
<nickr> good thing I have my trusty deringer, errr crapie
<ajmitch> might as well slap them around a bit
<nickr> slap those naughty dotgnu guys into shape
<psu> ajmitch: I belive the unofficial motto of the Bengal Lancers regiment was 
<psu> "Don;t ask questions - you'll only get answers"
<psu> should be the motto of most mailing lists I guess ;-)
<ajmitch> hehe
<nickr> bBengal Lancers?
<psu> gah 
<nickr> some sort of weird breakfast brigade?
<nickr> Bagel Lancers
<psu> did anyone actually say anything yesterday
<psu> or was it netsplits all the way? 
<ajmitch> netsplits mostly
<ajmitch> dunno if there was anything useful
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<ajmitch> hey reinhard
<ajmitch> chillywilly & i have planned a bitchfest^Wdiscussion about geas in the weekend, mainly just the 2 of us hammering things out but others are welcome :)
<psu> really, it's just an excuse for chillywilly to show off his cable modem
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> and me?
<psu> "I'll just DCC you this 3MB proof of concept I happen to have"
<ajmitch> gah
<ajmitch> i'm limited to 128kbps here
<psu> UK universities have SuperJANET - I suggest trying to wangle a student exchange ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> The original JANET - now that was one flakey network
Action: ajmitch hopes reinhard sees my message :)
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<psu> <reminiscene>
<ajmitch> hehe
<psu> when I first started, I was like one of the first 3000 dial-up users in the country
<ajmitch> wow
<ajmitch> 9600 or 2400?
<psu> so nearly everyone (in this country) I talked to was on JANET 
<ajmitch> or less? ;)
Action: ajmitch doesn't want to think about 300baud
<psu> a v expensive new 14.4k - but for Compu$pend I used 1200/75
<ajmitch> oooh
<psu> Anyway, JANET had it's own intepretation of various RFCs
<psu> the biggest pain of which was
Action: ajmitch could go up to about 6Mbps here if he was prepared to pay 20c/MB :)
<psu> that e-mail addresses were big-endian not little-endian
<psu> so I have to e-mail to friend@uk.ac.leeds 
<ajmitch> hehehe
<psu> and for incoming mail
<psu> I had to "accept & route" mail for uk.co.demon.manorcon.demon.co.uk
<psu> as a sub-somain
<psu> s/-s/-d
<ajmitch> lol
<psu> Jonathan Swift had it right - the eternal war between the big-endian and little-endian
<psu> in Gullivers' Travels.
Action: psu probably had his first modem when ajmitch was in diapers ;-)
<ajmitch> possibly, when did you have it? ;)
Action: ajmitch is only 19, remember ;)
<psu> I *think* it was 1992 or 1993
<psu> so unlikely unless you had childhood "problems"
<ajmitch> lol
<ajmitch> i'd say
<ajmitch> even i went online in 1994
<ajmitch> tho not on my computer
<ajmitch> i had a deprived childhood, didn't have a computer until my teenage years
<psu> ISTR my old CI$ id was [11011,1103] or somesuch
<ajmitch> had to use parent's one :)
<psu> I had my first computer at 13
<psu> which must have been 1981 or so
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> before i was born :)
<psu> Sinclair ZX-81 with the 16k expansion memory board
Action: psu feels very old
<ajmitch> such power
<psu> problem was it was a bit wonky
<ajmitch> my first computer was a p166mmx ;)
<ajmitch> i started off for the first few years on the parent's 286
<psu> so we used to hold in in place with blu-tack and/or masking tape
<ajmitch> anyway, gotta run off & cook for flatmates, talk to you later :)
<psu> the basic model came with 1k RAM
<ajmitch> have a good day sir
<psu> I held out for the 16k expansion from the parents 
<psu> even tho' 16k was more than anyone could ever need
<psu> & same to you
Action: Yurik remembers his first computer w/ 64k RAM and tape loader... :)
<psu> casette tapes -there's a thing
<psu> a whole generation brought up on the discussion of why 
<psu> the special 5-minute tapes were better than the standard 30-minutes
<psu> (basically shorter tapes were less likely to stretch)
Action: Yurik used 60-minutes cassetes, afair
<Yurik> bah, that computer was both awful and device thing
<Yurik> bah, that computer was both awful and nice device thing
<Yurik> and there was no xemacs :( ;)
Action: psu remembers CP/M's ed 
<psu> line-editor originally for TTYs
<psu> now there was an editor to sort the men from the boys
<psu> Just think, if Gary Kiddell hadn't been unreachable (in his private plane)
<psu> on the day IBM called 
<psu> we might never have heard of Bill Gates.
<Yurik> yeah... um
<psu> (Story, probably a myth, is that IBM were shopping for an OS for their first PC
<psu> were trying to contact CP/M and couldn't
<psu> so turned to Microsoft, who were already signed up to do the Basic 
<psu> and said, "could you provide the OS as well?")
<psu> Anyway
<psu> time for work
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<derek> if all jack gets for his effort at work is a 'dial-up' connection i would suggest just playing
<derek> as in the newly found time he could scan the country side for open 802.11b connections ;)
<nickr> you didn't hurt me, nothing can hurt me, you didn't hurt me, nothing can stop me now
<nickr> I wanna go 'war driving' sometime
<nickr> I have the hardware for it. hehe.
Nick change: SachaS -> SachaS_away
Action: nickr deafens himself.
<dtm> @#*%)
<nickr> %^&**&%#!=
<nickr> ]
<dtm> .
<nickr> æðæßð¢ßð»¢hhhhøµ¶¶ðð¢»
<nickr> .
Action: dtm grapples with nickr, ascii to ascii
Action: nickr beats dtm down with a highbit.
<dtm> HEY NOW.  i dont play none of that high ascii booolsheeit.  That's dirty pool, old man!
Action: dtm succumbs
Action: nickr wins!
<dtm> Tsk Tsk.  Dirty pool!
<nickr> someone should call the pool boy, then
<nickr> chillywilly! where are you?!
<dtm> That would be me.
<nickr> naw
<nickr> #gnuenterprise: we say more funny pointless things before 5am than most people say all day
<dtm> that's right
<nickr> yep
<nickr> !@$#%^&)
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<ajmitch> w0000000!
Action: ajmitch pokes dtm in the ribs
<ajmitch> wanna paste?
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<ajmitch> yo gopal
<ajmitch> you don't mind me calling you that? :)
<t3rmin4t0r> nope (as long as someone doesn't start the "yo momma..." series)
Action: dtm 's ribs swell painfully
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> sorry dtm
<ajmitch> ok, where were we?
Action: dtm recognizing ajmitch's pokings resulting in welts spelling the word "SATURDAY" in reverse ... coincidence?
<ajmitch> lol
<dtm> ajmitch: what... whha...wh...what di dyou DO to me, ajmitch?!
<dtm> ok anyway.
<ajmitch> someone do the honours of pasting? :)
<dtm> ajmitch: you email psu the log in #phpgroupware
<dtm> @*#
<t3rmin4t0r> so back to topic ?
<dtm> i dont know wtf KC is anyway
<dtm> ok yes
<ajmitch> kernel cousin
<ajmitch> ya know?
<ajmitch> yeah, back to topic
<dtm> another directoin of topic is that I believe a lot of gnue's leadership focuses on DCL right now
<dtm> no i have no idea what kernel cousin is :)
<dtm> all i know is that it's a big building full of doctors and patients, but that's not important right now!
<ajmitch> you're missing out
<ajmitch> you think GNUe is focussing on DCL quite a bit?
<dtm> i think mdean and derek are
<dtm> i know they are
<dtm> it rocks their worlds
<ajmitch> yeah, they are
<dtm> derek *loves* it
<ajmitch> but there is a lot of forms/designer/reports development going on
<t3rmin4t0r> DCL ?
<ajmitch> which i think would be useful for anyone who wants it
<dtm> not only that, but it's a metaphorical bridge.  it is a conduit for absorbing mdean's technology and personal talents
<dtm> which is important
<ajmitch> double choco latte
<ajmitch> project management software
<dtm> so they're doing that, and derek is increasingly depending on it for his workplace
<ajmitch> ye[
<dtm> t3rmin4t0r: http://dcl.sf.net -- read there briefly
<dtm> derek is hacking away at it
<dtm> that's derek's directoin
<ajmitch> i think that dotgnu could find gnue forms useful at some stage
<dtm> from mdean's direction, he is increasingly grokking gnue
<ajmitch> yeah
<dtm> derek and mdean are synergizing@!
<ajmitch> t3rmin4t0r: what do you see dotgnu lacking?
<dtm> can you feel the love?  FEEL THE LOVE, FEEL ALL THAT LOVE!
<ajmitch> ooh yeah baby
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<dtm> purely platonic.
<ajmitch> disconnect?
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Action: dtm awaits the transformation.. form somebody_ to t3rmin4t0r!!!
<dtm> ROOOWWWRRRR!!!!
Action: ajmitch pumps dtm's medication into him
<dtm> "Please don't make me angry.  You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.  aaHGHHH!!  ROOOWRRR!!  somebody_ ... FEELING VERY AAAAANGRRRRYYY!!"
<ajmitch> yah
<dtm> "SOMEBODY_ BECOMING.....T3RM1N4T0R!!!"
Action: ajmitch likes mutt's 'bounce' function :)
<dtm> so.
<dtm> ajmitch: hhe
<dtm> sounds interesting
<ajmitch> i got a reply from Asif Ali about GEAS, he cc'ed the wrong address
<dtm> i think i've dumped what i know.
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> from what i know, an appserver is popular in webservices - see zope for example
<ajmitch> GEAS could be used in that regards, if we're allowed to make it generic enough for webservices (i think it should be)
<dtm> right
<ajmitch> if reinhard is around, he could comment on this
Action: reinhard is not around
<reinhard> ;)
<ajmitch> busy at work? ;)
<reinhard> if the question is how generic the appserver will be
<ajmitch> yeah
<reinhard> my answer is i'm not sure ;)
<ajmitch> if we can make it generic for DotGNU to use it
<reinhard> i think the way i would go is
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<dtm> so i dont know how CRITICAL dcl's development is to gnue's immediate flow, in terms of software technology, but mdean's involvement will be significant and DCL development is a high professional priority for derek.
<ajmitch> i got a question on the DotGNU list about an appserver, i'll fwd it to the gnue list too
<reinhard> design it like we need it for gnue
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<reinhard> and if we have to extend it for dotgnu then see if it's worth
<ajmitch> that was the plan
<reinhard> imho we have defined our primary goals like stability, speed, etc
<ajmitch> yep
<reinhard> and i'm not willing to give up any of these
<t3rmin4t0r> doesn't everybody do that ?
<ajmitch> we shouldn't need to with a good design :)
<reinhard> for compatibility for something not our primary goal
<dtm> (this is relevant to t3rmin4t0r) another thing i can say about gnue is that i believe if a major GNU project such as dotgnu needs something it can reasonably deliver, such as an app server, then I think gnue should and would be willing to devote priority to meeting its needs.
<reinhard> but if it doesn't mean to give up any of these
<ajmitch> reinhard: it's just i can see gnue & dotgnu overlapping in these areas :)
<reinhard> (which i expect to be the case)
<dtm> ajmitch: this discussion just popped outta nowhere, and i think if it bears fruit, then it could be worth all the time we've spent lurking and heckling in the last MONTH!  ;)
<reinhard> then it would be a good thing (tm)
<ajmitch> we won't give up anything, we shall hold our ground until the death!! :)
<dtm> once again, KILL!!
<reinhard> HOWEVER
<dtm> KILL
[04:48] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<ajmitch> continue, reinhard :)
<reinhard> i've never seen a statement less specific than
<reinhard> "it has to be more generic"
<reinhard> :)
<ajmitch> i know :)
<dtm> heh
<ajmitch> that's why we want to find out what the needs are first ;)
<t3rmin4t0r> so, how do we go about deciding what to leave to gnue (other than the default verythinh")
<t3rmin4t0r> "everything
<ajmitch> what do you mean, t3rmin4t0r?
<ajmitch> as in who implements what parts?
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<t3rmin4t0r> yup
<t3rmin4t0r> "who does what" is currently my job for pnetlib 
<ajmitch> heh
<t3rmin4t0r> so I'm aware of the stubbing toe syndrome
<dtm> owie
<ajmitch> we'll need to know what the needs of dotgnu webservices & stuff are, then organise it in with gnue's needs
<ajmitch> i guess
<ajmitch> i'm not a project manager, thankfully ;)
<t3rmin4t0r> I'm not in dotgnu SC either :)
<drochaid_> and what's wrong with project managers Mr Smythe?
<ajmitch> argh, run everyone!
Action: t3rmin4t0r ducks 
<dtm> perhaps ajmitch meant that he personally would be an unsuitable project manager, not that there is anything inherently wrong with project managers  :)
<ajmitch> yeah, that's it :)
<dtm> yeah
<t3rmin4t0r> coders make poor managers (generally)
<drochaid_> well, coders make pretty poor anything really >:)
Action: drochaid_ ducks and runs
<ajmitch> derek's a pretty good manager for gnue
<ajmitch> ok, i've mailed psu with the crap from earlier :)
<ajmitch> we've plenty more to talk about, so spill... :)
<drochaid_> you mailed psu crap? isn't that illegal? :o
<t3rmin4t0r> what is the current direction of gnue 
<ajmitch> think mdean & derek would be willing to detail their groupware stuff?
Action: t3rmin4t0r starts to ignore drochaid_
<ajmitch> direction? building the framework as is needed :)
<drochaid_> just starts?
<drochaid_> I'm still waiting for dtm and ajmitch to /ignore me :)
<ajmitch> eg, forms & designer are working quite well, reports is getting up to speed fast
<ajmitch> they are in place because people have been using them in production
<t3rmin4t0r> so where does the RPC come in ?
<ajmitch> Motivation
<ajmitch> ==========
<ajmitch> Several GNUe tools require a platform- and implementation-independent means
<ajmitch> of communicating with other GNUe tools:
<ajmitch> from the RPC-abstraction docs ;)
<ajmitch> since GNUe components will be split across a network, there needs to be someway of communicating
<dtm> ajmitch: yes they are but i'll have to appoint a meeting between them first.  i'll schedule it for this weekend, how about that?
<ajmitch> dtm: should be fine if you get hold of them
<dtm> ok
<dtm> i repeatedly send them icards and that gets their attention
<dtm> except mdean!  that only worked once!
<dtm> he's basically *offline*
<ajmitch> dotgnu stuff would most likely use gnue parts as the processing portion, and so would use the same rpc calls to access it
<ajmitch> afaik, gnue is designed to be extended & flexible :)
<t3rmin4t0r> Ok, so it solves the lack of communication between developers ;:)
<ajmitch> haha, nothing can solve those issues ;)
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<ajmitch> services still need to have a defined & agree-upon interface
<t3rmin4t0r> ok, so how can I use gnue as of now for DotGNU ?
<t3rmin4t0r> ie as an appserver or stuff ?
<dtm> is gnue ready as a general applicatoin server, even remotely comparable to zope?
<dtm> t3rmin4t0r: did you happen to get my last comment to you?
<dtm> (this is relevant to t3rmin4t0r) another thing i can say about gnue is that i believe if a major GNU project such as dotgnu needs something it can reasonably deliver, such as an app server, then I think gnue should and would be willing to devote priority to meeting its needs.
<dtm> t3rmin4t0r: that one
<dtm> t3rmin4t0r: you shuld at least know that :)
<dtm> not saying it will always meet needs in a timely fashion, but it could be possible
<ajmitch> is gnue usable for an appserver? didn't you hear that we're redoing geas, rewriting it in python instead of C? :)
<dtm> nope
<t3rmin4t0r> so is it off the drawing baord ?
<dtm> i know nothing of development status or process :)
<ajmitch> which is why i want input now, during the design stage :)
<dtm> t3rmin4t0r: yeah ok well you should state your requirements then :)
<ajmitch> there's some simple code, but nothing usable in the python version
<dtm> or i guess dotgnu probably has them documented somehwere eh?
<ajmitch> i hoep to spend a couple of weeks after exams on this :)
<dtm> ajmitch: so i guess the pre-python version is nothing to depend on then huh?
<dtm> ajmitch: destined for total obsolescence?  irrelevant
<dtm> ?
<ajmitch> dtm: the C version is usable, but nothing special :)
<dtm> ajmitch: is it currently irrelevant?
<t3rmin4t0r> how can I write a small app based on gnue ?
<ajmitch> dtm: it does CORBA only, iirc
<dtm> ok
<ajmitch> t3rmin4t0r: if you were doing it with forms, you'd do it 2-tier
<t3rmin4t0r> I wanna take it for a spin , before recommending it
<t3rmin4t0r> ajmitch: can I do it py ?
<ajmitch> i'm not the person to talk to about that, you'd want to talk to jamest, jcater, or others about that
<ajmitch> yeah, forms, etc is all done in python
<ajmitch> derek is probably one of the best people to talk to - he's the GNUe masta
<t3rmin4t0r> I'm going to get the gnue cvs (if there is one)
<ajmitch> sure there is one :)
<ajmitch> lemme just get it
<ajmitch> but remember, in dotgnu's current state i wouldn't recommend it for much either ;)
<t3rmin4t0r> ?
<t3rmin4t0r> what was that about DotGNU ?
<ajmitch> what useful things can currently be done with it?
<ajmitch> i'm not dissing the project, don't worry ;)
<ajmitch> i'm just unsure about what parts are usable
<t3rmin4t0r> what does dotgnu has to do with gnue ?
<t3rmin4t0r> I'm just taking a look-see on what gnue can do 
<ajmitch> well that's what we're trying to figure out ;)
<ajmitch> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/gnue login
<ajmitch> (blank passwd)
<ajmitch> cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/gnue co gnue
<ajmitch>     
<t3rmin4t0r> ok, I'll do that when I get home :)
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> i wish dyfet were around more
<t3rmin4t0r> I'll get that , give it some test runs and see how good it is :)
<ajmitch> heh, i'd test out forms & designer first
<ajmitch> there are quite a few samples there
<t3rmin4t0r> aah  ... the parts that work !
<ajmitch> yeah, they're in production use
<ajmitch> the old appserver was in production use, but the old maintainer up & left
<ajmitch> so we're redesigning & using the common DB drivers & RPC lib
<t3rmin4t0r> typically , any server of sorts can be put into DotGNU :)
<t3rmin4t0r> the definition is so ambigous
<ajmitch> i know :)
<ajmitch> i've just seen them being popular with dynamic websteis (eg webware, zope)
<t3rmin4t0r> gotcha
<ajmitch> except dotgnu is designed to be more than a server of flat html  :)
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<dtm> yeah, gnue wants to be UI and platform independant
Action: ajmitch guesses gopz' connection ain't too wonderful
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Action: ajmitch tries out gnue navigator & finds he has incomplete config files
<gopz> yup
<ajmitch> ok, so when should we try & get hold of people & annoy them to death about this? ;)
Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid
<drochaid> sooooo, why was python chosen for development over, say, VBA? :)
<ajmitch> drochaid: you hate life that much?
<drochaid> hey, I developed the IT Integrated WinTel Services package for Telecom Sciences Ltd in '96 ...
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<drochaid> I have a write to hate life ... it was done in Access '95 :-/
<drochaid> s/write/right
<ajmitch> ewwww
<ajmitch> thankfully we have psu here to summarise all this by the end of the week :)
<drochaid> 15 user networked, main dbfile on one of the local helpdesk machines :-(
<ajmitch> i think it should get in this week's kernel cousin
<ajmitch> dtm: kt.zork.net/GNUe
<ajmitch> access is just wrong
<drochaid> welllllllll
<drochaid> access is just wrong, that I agree with ... but the jet dbengine absolutely rawkz
<drochaid> or it did ... until they changed it :-(
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> use GNUe d00d
<drochaid> I programmed most of the system in DAO, only using VBA where absolutely necessary
<drochaid> I think it took me 2 weeks to learn how to use access, and 6 months to learn how to work around all the bugs :)
<drochaid> GNUe? wassat then? ;)
<gopz> I had a close encounter with ADO last year .. I'm still shaking
<dtm> ajmitch: so did we have a resolution tonight?
<ajmitch> dtm: not sure :)
<dtm> ok
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<ajmitch> dtm: everyone seemed to go quiet ;)
<dtm> ajmitch: well go ahead and summarize what happened or what needs to be done then
<drochaid> I know, I stopped using access when they started the move from DAO to ADO
<ajmitch> dtm: you & i pick up cattle prods & visit the people who need convincing
<drochaid> then I found postgresql :-D
<drochaid> and then I found mysql :-(
<drochaid> then I set fire to mysql, and went back to postgresql :)
<ajmitch> we talk to those people in the know (derek, other GNUe people), and DotGNU chiefs
<ajmitch> then we sort out how we will allow for DotGNu& other users of geas & other GNUe services
<ajmitch> dtm: any questions/comments?
<ajmitch> dtm: you mentioned trying to get some people here in the weekend
<dtm> so i guess the primary result is that dotgnu wants an app server, so gnue has the option to jive its priorities with that.
<ajmitch> yeah, that's one of the things
<dtm> ajmitch: well, i have only been involved with DCL
<ajmitch> alrighty
<dtm> so i'm on one splinter/tangent
<dtm> well, and even more distantly, i'm working on phpgw-related stuff
<ajmitch> which is why you thought that GNUe is quite focused on DCL
<dtm> with a curious mind toward gnue collaboration
<dtm> ajmitch: well gnue's leadership is
<ajmitch> as we mentioned in #phpgroupware earlier, phpgw was meant to be 'part' of DotGNU
<dtm> ajmitch: apparently
<dtm> ajmitch: yeah i'm taking your word on that
<ajmitch> it's ont he dotgnu.org webpage
<dtm> i'm not in sync with dotgnu at all
<dtm> ok
<dtm> well great then
<ajmitch> as t3rmin4t0r said, there hasn't been much visible contact tho
<ajmitch> i always hang out in the #dotgnu channel :)
<dtm> well at least the conversation rekindled an empathy loop
<dtm> :)
<ajmitch> and have done some packaging for dotgnu
<ajmitch> i'm one of the lucky ones who can grovel up to all the dotgnu coreteam ;)
<dtm> dotgnu should ask openprivacy.org (burtonator in #infoanarchy) about distributed anonymous authentication
<dtm> heheheh
<dtm> yay
<ajmitch> there are a few auth projects for dotgnu at the moment
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Nick change: cw-zzzzZZZZ -> chillywilly
<ajmitch> wb dude
<ajmitch> you missed a big discussion
Action: ajmitch got bored & did a bit of GNUe advocacy
<chillywilly> just read the back log
<chillywilly> *sorta*
<chillywilly> skimmed is more like it
<chillywilly> well I have a few minutes to get ready so...
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> abandon me then...
<dtm> chillywilly: @#*)%
<dtm> chillywilly: holy shit you're going to work and i haven't gone to bed
<dtm> :(
[06:04] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<dtm> ajmitch: you need to summarize it!  :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> i shoudl leave that to psu ;)
Action: ajmitch knows psu won't mind (much) ;)
<ajmitch> plus i'm not good at summarising ;)
<chillywilly> it's ok I have logs
<chillywilly> I am utilizing my broadband connection ;)
<chillywilly> yea dtm that's pretty bad
<dtm> :/
<chillywilly> you need to discipline yourself
<chillywilly> g
<dtm> HEH
<dtm> i need to barf out everything i need to get done in order to produce healthy life infrastrucutre
<dtm> set up dcl and input all my data into dcl and phpgw
<chillywilly> you know what though
<dtm> then comes the discipline
<dtm> :/
<dtm> tell me what
<dtm> :)
<chillywilly> I think everyone natural sleep cycle is like 4am to 12pm
<dtm> heh!
<chillywilly> so go to bed ;)
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> chillywilly: so whaddaya think?
<dtm> ok i'm almost done with this barfing cycle; pray i dont make many more dry heaves
<chillywilly> ajmitch: ummm, all I can gather is that geas needs to be generic but reinhard is not that concerned about it which I have heard him say before
<chillywilly> he wants to focus on GNUe
<chillywilly> this si form skimming
<chillywilly> so if I missed some important info plz let me know
<ajmitch> yep
<chillywilly> er, is from
<ajmitch> he doesn't have a problem with it if it doesn't compromise the goals for GNUe
<chillywilly> which it shouldn't
<ajmitch> which was my point
<ajmitch> we just need to get the support of others
<chillywilly> how would the API(s) differ and how does one make an app server become a web service component?
<chillywilly> does DotGNU even have an architecture layer out?
<chillywilly> laid
<ajmitch> nah, not really afaict
<dtm> wtf?
<dtm> why not
<dtm> how does that make sense :)
<chillywilly> well if it goes as far as exporting some imterfaces it should be easy to add
<ajmitch> a webservice would basically just be a different frontend rather than forms
<dtm> why would they be in here if they have no arch layout
<ajmitch> dtm: cos it's all so bloody vague at the moment! ;)
<chillywilly> they going to use WSDL?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: dunno
<chillywilly> ajmitch: precisely
<chillywilly> vague
[06:16] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<ajmitch> this might give them a bit of order if they do go ahead
<chillywilly> just like current geas ;)
<dtm> THER'ES BLOOD IN IT?
<dtm> :(
<chillywilly> there's time that we both need to grown
<dtm> HOW MACABRE
<chillywilly> er, grow
<ajmitch> chillywilly: you see Asif's last message to the dotgnu list?
<chillywilly> hmmm, I don't think so
<chillywilly> but aI don't read it close
<ajmitch> webservices aren't that much different from a non-web app, surprisingly
<chillywilly> sometimes I just skip through the messages and don't read them at all
<ajmitch> they are different forms of conveying info
<chillywilly> (tab through via mutt)
<chillywilly> ;P
<ajmitch> same here :)
<ajmitch> i replied to a few tho
<ajmitch> as you saw, we got gopal in here for a chat
<ajmitch> since i saw him in #phpgroupware
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> we need another meeting of the minds
<chillywilly> or something
<ajmitch> i was mainly wanting to prod them into looking at gnurpc
<ajmitch> and geas
<chillywilly> hey I don't even know how that code works
<ajmitch> since that is where the most overlap is
<chillywilly> :P
<ajmitch> still on for a weekend meeting?
<chillywilly> gnurpc that is
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> dudes I gottw run
<chillywilly> gotta
<dtm> chillywilly: have fun dewd
<chillywilly> we'll talk more
<ajmitch> bye
<chillywilly> bye
<dtm> chillywilly: travel safely
Action: chillywilly is away: work
Action: ajmitch guesses why he isn't getting some mail to gnue lists :)
<ajmitch> procmail removing the duplicates that are cc'ed to dotgnu & gnue lists
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<ajmitch> hey jbailey
<ajmitch> how's gnue debs coming along? :)
<jbailey> Which ones?  dcl ones are doing just lovely.
<jbailey> sapdb cd should arrive next week.
<ajmitch> cool
<ajmitch> is dcl updated in sid?
<jbailey> No, I've decided to hold off on that.
<ajmitch> i should get more debs done, i have pnet ones ready for dotgnu
<jbailey> I don't want a package that I've just adopted going into stable without any testing.
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> but would it get into stable?
<jbailey> Because it's just a php app, people can fetch it if they want.
<jbailey> I think there's still time for it to get into woody.
<ajmitch> k
<jbailey> The freeze isn't for another 6 days or so.
<ajmitch> alright
<ajmitch> guess that leaves me just to code & harass the others then
<ajmitch> seems to be all i'm good for :)
<jbailey> Cding's good.
<ajmitch> yeah but how much of that have i done?
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<ajmitch> hi dsmith
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<ajmitch> hi jamest
<jamest> hi
<ajmitch> damn, looks like i got some people talking about geas now :)
<jbailey>   REally?  Where?
<ajmitch> on the dotgnu & gnue list
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<dsmith> Good Morning!
<ajmitch> yeah hi
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<^chewie> mornin
Action: dsmith is away: Testing stonebeat and fw-1
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<jcater> morning
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<reinhard> maybe someone finds this funny:
<reinhard> i started to write an explaination of a few terms for my homepage
<reinhard> (in german certainly)
<reinhard> because people tend to aks me questions like
<reinhard> "what's the difference between unix and linux?" etc.
<reinhard> where i explain "operating system" i write
<reinhard> "operating systems provide functions for writing and compiling programs, accessing and protecting data, sharing resources, administration of the system, backups, and automatisation of processes.
<reinhard> Most small users that have only low demands to their computer system use Microsoft Windows instead of an operating system. However, it is possible to extend Windows into a complete operating system by extending it with several separate products."
<reinhard> --
<ajmitch> heh
<reinhard> would you agree with the last sentence?
<ajmitch> certainly
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<psu> struck a blow for free s/w today (sorta)
<psu> I am still trying to get my head round the license fees for the new ERP project at work
<psu> & I said to my boss
<psu> "why is it that if I keep selling the same physical propetry over and over again 
<psu> I'm a conman
<psu> but if I keep selling the same intellectual propetry over and over again 
<psu> I'm an entrepeneur?"
<psu> turns out he agrees
<psu> his particular beef is per-user licensing
<psu> as the s/w doesn't change the more users you add
<dneighbo> yummy dont let him talk to me ;)
<dneighbo> i have no idea if the English like/dislike or have any respect for Edison
<dneighbo> but he had the BEST possible analogy for "intellectual property" (sic)
<dneighbo> let me run it for you...
<dneighbo> Imagine its say 1850 (pre electricity)
<dneighbo> its dark at my house I need light
<dneighbo> i can obtain it under two models 
<psu> heh
<dneighbo> ...
<dneighbo> just a second
<psu> Personally, what I've read of Edison he sounds not the sort of boss I'd want
<psu> but someone who can come up with the idea of inventing the electric chair
<psu> in order to discredit a rival on saftey grounds
<psu> is obviously on a different plane to the rest of us ;-)
Action: psu shuts up in case dneighbo wants to continue
<nickr> he was a wacko, jsut a very successful wacko
<dneighbo> ok sorry distracted
<dneighbo> ok two ways to get that light
<dneighbo> a. i can come to your house and take your candle.
<dneighbo> b. i can come to your house with my candle and ask you to light my candle with your candle.
<dneighbo> (a) is an example of physical sale, where i get something you lose something
<dneighbo> (b) is an example of intellectual sale, where i get somethign you lose nothing
<dneighbo> you GAVE me a FLAME, but it cost you NOTHING
<dneighbo> i think seat licenses and music etc fall into this category
Action: dneighbo is still amazed that we can call something IP theft
<dneighbo> when there is nothing to 'steal'
<dneighbo> example, you have some great idea
<dneighbo> and i 'take it'
<dneighbo> do you still have the idea?
<nickr> no!
Action: dneighbo assumes unless you have alzheimers you probably do
<nickr> you killed me to take it!
<dneighbo> nickr ah but then the crime is murder not theft
<nickr> i think the penalties under the DMCA are greater for the theft than the murder.
<nickr> </joke>
<dneighbo> nickr i wish you were kidding
<nickr> I'm just waiting for the roving death squa^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H copyright enforcement personelll
<dneighbo> nickr you didnt hear 
<dneighbo> the new head of IT for govt (the microsoft weenie)
<nickr> yea
<dneighbo> is working with CIA and FBI and they are formulating
<dneighbo> the CEA - Copyright Enforcement Agency
<nickr> uh oh
<nickr> that sounds dangerous to civil liberties.
<dneighbo> they hope to have their charter by end of year
<nickr> that and the shadow government doesn't bode well.
<dneighbo> and will be in charge of monitoring things like
<dneighbo> DMCA and SCCCA and such
<nickr> I thougt that was the FCC/FTC job
<nickr> hrm
<dneighbo> btw: im just kidding, but i shouldnt because it will probably become a reality all too soon
<jcater> you should've published that on April 1 on slashdot :)
<jcater> you had me going for a minute too :)
<dneighbo> yeah i suppose so
<jcater> 'cause I certainly don't doubt the possibility
<nickr> heh
<nickr> theres always next year
<nickr> there should be more april1s per year
<jcater> of course, I would've hoped my EFFector or ACLU Action List would've notified me by now
<dneighbo> its one of those things thats far enough out there it seems ridiculous
<jcater> I rely on those two :)
<dneighbo> but is close enough to home its almost believable
<dneighbo> jcater : well to do the joke PROPERLY would be to eff release the announcement and post bogus documents
<dneighbo> then have linuxtoday and slashdot pickup the story ;)
<nickr> jcater: what if they are secretly controlled by the shadow government under the direction of Disney!?
<jcater> :)
<jcater> they are one source of my information
<jcater> I don't blindly follow them :)
<dneighbo> nickr i almost said it was DEA (disney enforc agency)
<dneighbo> but DEA is taken
<jcater> but they are a good mailing list to be on
<nickr> hehe
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<nickr> hrm, is there a simple way to submit forms from a python script with httplib?
<jcater> os.system('/usr/local/bin/gfclient myform.gfd')
<jcater> :)
<nickr> no no
<nickr> a web form.
<nickr> bastard.
<jcater> I know
<jcater> hence the :)
<jcater> hey, now
<nickr> hehe
<jcater> only my wife and son can call me a bastard
<nickr> I could make a forms frontend for the database but I need a console client.
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<siesel> hi jcater. 
<siesel> just wanna tell you: both xmlrpc librarys should be implemented, because the gpl'd one has no https.
<siesel> so your choise wasn't so bad.
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> interesting
<jcater> I wonder how hard it'd be to patch the gpl'd one?
<jcater> (btw, I'm not suggesting you do that :)
<siesel> dunno, possibly the newest version already includes it...
<nickr> how do I exect things in python?
<nickr> exec
<siesel> ... but I like debian packaged versions, ... so we have to wait until  maintainer  has some free time
<siesel> ... by the way, it's mostly written in c. ...
Action: siesel hates to patch c code.
<siesel> nickr: os.system()
<nickr> danke
<nickr> is there a fast easy way to turn a list into a string?
<siesel> string.join(list,".") if i remember right.
<siesel> nichts zu danken
<jcater> nickr: yeah, what siesel said
<siesel> jcater: do you know anything new about the dotgnu rpc discussion? what did they plan to use? 
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'll be honest
<jcater> I don't know anything about dotGNU
<dneighbo> i hate bitchx
<jcater> I know they're interested in our grpc stuff
<dneighbo> put lightly i THINK unless things have changed
<jcater> but I still don't fully understand what they're doing :)
<dneighbo> 'their' rpc stuff is gnurpc
<dneighbo> which is what is in our cvs :)
<jcater> ?
<nickr> dneighbo: use irssi
<jcater> nickr: is that text based?
<siesel> dneigbo: Really? i just visited their web site and read something about jabber. And a jabber site tells RMS and some other guys had taken a look at  beep..
<siesel> So I'm a bit confused.
<jcater> I am too
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<jcater> siesel and I will just be confused together :)
<dneighbo> FSCK FSCK FSCK
<dneighbo> i hate bitchx
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> siesel maybe im confused
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> to my knowledge
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> david sugar, bradley kuhn, myself, jason and others had a meeting
<dneighbo>            on this
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> it was determined we would all use XML-RPC to interoperate for
<dneighbo>            right now
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> and that we would investigate RPC abstraction first in python
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> and if success was found
<dneighbo> <talli> wow
<dneighbo> -:- SignOff SachaS_away: #gnuenterprise (Read error: 110 (Connection timed
<dneighbo>           out))
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> that dotGNU might look at making a portable implementation of that
<dneighbo> <talli> what app did you write that in?
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> as recently as last week david sugar (lead of dotGNU) seems to
<dneighbo>            still think that is a course of action
<dneighbo> <davb> oops. 
<dneighbo> * davb/#GNUe goes home
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> in fact i think he stated so in our list as of today
<dneighbo> * dneighbo goes to look
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> talli write what in?
<dneighbo> i was in wrong window when i replied
Action: siesel takes the shimmering potion. quaf
Action: siesel is feeling less confused now.
<dneighbo> btw: one think i have always said is i want asynch rpc
<dneighbo> like msmq and ibm mqueue series
<dneighbo> i think JABBER is the right protocol for that
<siesel> the lgpl'd xmlrpc solution does some kind of asynch rpc. It can collect rpc calls and call them alltogether some time later..
<nickr> yes, irssi is text based
<nickr> at least there is a text version
<nickr> and now how do i turn a number into a string?
<dneighbo> str(my_number)
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<nickr> right
<btami> hello all
<jcater> nickr: it doesn't look much different than bitchx
<jcater> at least in functionality
<jcater> you know of any that actually do curses-based windows :)
<jcater> this is dneighbo we're talking about
<jcater> :)
<nickr> er
<nickr> uh
<nickr> 'curses based windows'?
<nickr> thats so silly.
<nickr> irssi is much nicer than bitchix though
<jcater> sure
<nickr> it opens new panes automatically
<jcater> but it's the same principle :)
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<nickr> your inceasent smilies are annoying
<jcater> anyone know how beepcore.org is much different than dotGNU?
<nickr> you shall have to be terminated
<jcater> :(
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<siesel> jcater: i had a look at pybeep. they have nice diagrams there: http://pybeep.sourceforge.net/arch.png
<siesel> ...but not much more... :(
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I don;t like diagrams
<jcater> to me, there avoidance of work
<jcater> :)
<siesel> rofl
<siesel> ... whats about documentation ? ;)
<jcater> um
<jcater> documentation causes MORE work
<jcater> because as soon as ppl understand what you should be doing
<jcater> they expect you to make it do that :)
<siesel> good point.
<jcater> siesel: do you know what "problem" beep is trying to solve
<jcater> it looks need, but I guess I don't quite get "why"
<jcater> s/need/neat
<jcater> btw, I'm asking from the perspective of gnurpc
<siesel> eeeeh.  something with rpc ... async?  I don't know excatly.
<jcater> ok :)
<siesel> beep= BEEP, the Application Protocol Framework
<siesel> BEEP is a turbocharger for Internet applications that offers advanced features such as:
<siesel>     * a standard application layer that supports dynamic, pluggable application "profiles" (protocols)
<siesel>     * peer-to-peer, client-server, or server-to-server capabilities
<siesel>     * multiple channels over a single authenticated session
<siesel>     * support for arbitrary MIME payloads, including XML
<jcater> yeah, I got that from the home page
<jcater> but that's pretty vague 
<jcater> oh, well... just curious
<siesel> yep. its something like "All ever wanted and never got"
<nickr> hrm, that was easier than i thought
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<dneighbo> what was?
<nickr> writing a command line client for my journal program in python
<nickr> I'm going to be X-less!
<dneighbo> why?
<dneighbo> i.e. by choice?
<dneighbo> or you have issue where you cant use X
<nickr> I have to ship my boxen
<nickr> so I'll have my laptop
<nickr> and I don't have teh patience to download X for it
<dneighbo> you driving?
<dneighbo> or flying?
<dneighbo> going tomorrow?
<nickr> no, I've got to have everything ready to ship tomarrow though
<nickr> I'm leaving tuesday
<siesel> l8r
<dneighbo> ah so you will be w/o boxes for abit
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<nickr> yea
<dneighbo> flying or driving (or did i ask that)
<nickr> but my journal is important!
<nickr> flying
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<nickr> but theres no command line jabber client :P
<nickr> fie
<dneighbo> when you check into that crack recovery house again :)
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> 3y3l show j00 crack!
<dneighbo> this mean your playlist is giong down?
<dneighbo> as how else will get lists of new music to try/
Action: dneighbo envisions nickr ircing for 40 hours straight
<dneighbo> then getting on to that plane 
<dneighbo> and pulling a John Lithgow
<dneighbo> 'there's a man on the wing of the plane'
Action: dneighbo wonders if anyhone gets that reference or not
<nickr> hrm
<nickr> that was originally a William Shatner ;)
<nickr> the playlist will be back and better than ever when I get there as I unify my work environment with my ongoing digital existance
<nickr> hrm, I like my command line submitter much better than doing it via the web
<nickr> just need to parse the repsonse
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Action: chillywilly is back (gone 10:43:03)
<chillywilly> wooo 10 hr day!
<chillywilly> yipee!
<chillywilly> anyone home?
<jcater> no
<dneighbo> no
<dtm> chillywilly: #@)*
<nickr> mahna mahna, chillywilly 
<dneighbo> alive:yes
<dneighbo> here:yes
<dneighbo> home:no
Action: nickr considers itp'ing cabber
<dneighbo> ?
<nickr> console jabber client ;)
<dneighbo> i understood considers and you lost me after that :)
<nickr> itp=intent to package
<dneighbo> ah
<chillywilly> sup dewds
<chillywilly> broadband rocks my socks
<dtm> dneighbo: reference to Ace Venture 2?
<jcater> chillywilly: downloading that pr0n again?
<chillywilly> ;)
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<dtm> chillywilly: now you need to get dyndns.org@#(*)
<chillywilly> I already been using that since ai had dialup
<dtm> chillywilly: i bet it rocks your sister's mp3 hoarding socks huh?
<dtm> chillywilly: oh yeah
<chillywilly> frell.dyndns.org and obfuscation.dyndns.org are mine :)
<dtm> chillywilly: how old is your sisteR?
<chillywilly> frell is my server and obfuscation is my laptop
<chillywilly> which one?
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> my little sister is 16
<nickr> ooh
<nickr> ripe and tender
<dneighbo> dtm: reference to Twighlight Zone the movie
<dtm> nickr: :-o
<chillywilly> my other little sister is 21
<dtm> chillywilly: NICKR WANTS TO KNOW IF THE LI'L ONE IS HAUT.
<chillywilly> and I am 24
<dtm> s/HAUT/HAWT/
<dneighbo> and nickr was correct that Shatner played in original episode in the 60's 'Terror at 20,000 Feet'
<dtm> dneighbo: hahaha
<chillywilly> uh, nickr can back the fuck off
<nickr> thatcs because I'm smart.
<dtm> chillywilly: heh
<chillywilly> and my 21 year old sister is married
<dtm> chillywilly: cool is she doin good?
<chillywilly> she's ok
<dtm> chillywilly: i.e.  husband not a deadbeat, etc
<chillywilly> he's not may favorite person
<dtm> chillywilly: heh!
<chillywilly> let's just leave it at that
<dtm> chillywilly: did she used ta beat ya up, buddy? 
<nickr> chillywilly: shall I put a team on that?
<dneighbo> nickr 21 + married is his way of saying if you want to see what she looks like you will have to go to hotnhornyhousewives.com
<dtm> hmmmmm
<dneighbo> j/k chillywilly 
<dtm> dneighbo: fascinating
<nickr> lol
<dtm> dneighbo: are you interested in a DCL Steering Summit this weekend for like 1 or 2 hrs ?
<nickr> I knew it!
<dtm> dneighbo: me, you, mdean, etc
<dneighbo> um its possible
<dtm> dneighbo: answer: yes
<dneighbo> will mdean be around
<dtm> dneighbo: unknown
<dtm> dneighbo: i haven't contactificated him yet
<jcater> wouldn't mdean be a necessary participant of that?
<dtm> for he is remote and silent to us
<dtm> jcater: that is a fact
<dneighbo> i have a LAN party scheduled on Saturday from like 3pm to sunday morning
<dtm> dneighbo: oh cool
<dtm> lan parties
<dtm> @#(*
<chillywilly> http://goats.gnue.org/~chillywilly/photos/family.png
<dneighbo> but im just the 'house dad' for it so to speak
<chillywilly> the ugly guy is me ;)
<dneighbo> so i might be around during that time
<chillywilly> that picture is pretty recent
<chillywilly> about a year old
<jcater> chillywilly: damn, dude
<jcater> you're hurting my eyes
<nickr> Error en el resultado:
<chillywilly> thanks
<chillywilly> I used to look better
<chillywilly> (yea right)
<dtm> DAN YOU'RE LOVELY
<chillywilly> uh, no
<dtm> chillywilly: so who are the ones what ain't you?
<dneighbo> man you make jcater look like an underwear model
<chillywilly> littlest sister is to the right
<dtm> dneighbo: omg
<chillywilly> older little sister is standing up
<chillywilly> my mom is in the middle
<dtm> cool
<chillywilly> (obviously)
<dtm> tell em i said 'hi'
<dtm> well ya never know!
<dneighbo> j/k
<chillywilly> this picture is funny
<chillywilly> http://goats.gnue.org/~chillywilly/photos/hs_grad.png
<dneighbo> welcome to teh club though
<dtm> chillywilly: hey dood  i did some refresher research on Jeffrey Dahmer this week.  he lived about 30 mins from you huh?
<nickr> hotchy motchy
<dneighbo> the you be getting fat club
<dneighbo> ;)
<chillywilly> yea Dahmer lived in Milwaukee when I lived there but he lived on the east side downtown
<dneighbo> as you look about 15lbs heavier in this picture then last one i saw
<chillywilly> I ma up to 210lbs now
<dtm> chillywilly: did you go and say hi to him or anything?
<chillywilly> I am getting fat
<chillywilly> uh, no
<dtm> chillywilly: those file sizes are the REAL fat in this picture
<chillywilly> I didn't know Jefferey Dahmer
<dneighbo> man dont fight it
<dneighbo> embrace it
<dneighbo> fat is chic
<dneighbo> right jcater ?
<chillywilly> lol
<jcater> absolutely
Action: dneighbo keeps telling him self that anyhow
<chillywilly> you see my highschool pciture?
<chillywilly> and then my family photo
<dneighbo> i get an image
<dneighbo> but i cant see you
<dneighbo> just hair
<chillywilly> :P
<dneighbo> in the hs_grad
<chillywilly> my fro grows fast
<chillywilly> apeaking of which I need another hair cut
<chillywilly> dtm: I should shrink them down some but now I have broadband so who cares ;)
<dtm> the world cares!
<chillywilly> eveyone should just get broadband
<dtm> everyone should throw their trash out the window too, so the little critters can get attracted to the highway and become ROAD KILL.!!  IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT, DAN?!
<chillywilly> can you tell some of those pictures were in my wallet getting all beat up? ;)
<dtm> yeah
<chillywilly> hey at least my kid is cute ;)
<dtm> yes he is
<chillywilly> I have that ;)
<dtm> you got some good pictures there
<chillywilly> hmm, how can I shrink them will the gimp let me up the compression ratio or should I convert to jpg?
<chillywilly> this is caroline's family
<chillywilly> http://goats.gnue.org/~chillywilly/photos/my_other_family.png
<dtm> chillywilly: you will convert to jpeg
<dtm> chillywilly: perhaps even with a 10% blur first
<chillywilly> why a blur?
<dtm> because jpeg likes continuous colors
<dtm> and a 10% blur doesn't make a visible diff
<dtm> and people iwll go "my, what tiny file sizes you have, dan!"
<chillywilly> upping the compression to 9 doesn't do much
<jcater> plus, the 10% blur will help ppl look at your pics without cringing
<chillywilly> -rw-r--r--    1 danielb  danielb    339274 Apr 25 17:28 caroline-small.png
<chillywilly> -rw-r--r--    1 danielb  danielb    418158 Apr  7  2001 caroline.png
<chillywilly> thanks jcater, but at least I have the balls to put them up there
<dtm> jcater: yeah, shadddap!
<dtm> :)
<chillywilly> where are your pics at?
<jcater> hang on
<dtm> jcater: let's see em!!
<dtm> i gots mine somewhere
Action: chillywilly envisions jcater scanning pictures in as we speak
<chillywilly> we'll be able to see the timestamp you know ;)
Action: jcater is at work, dufus
<chillywilly> what is your problem eh?
<chillywilly> if you don't have something nice to day then keep it to your damn self
<chillywilly> s/day/say
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
<ajmitch> hi all
<dtm> ajmitch: werd
<ajmitch> greeting & salutations to you, dtm
<dtm> dneighbo: so are we talking about < 3pm saturday?  or on saturday night or on sunday or what
<ajmitch> dtm: i got a hold of dyfet, btw
<dtm> cool
<ajmitch> well, why does everything go quiet just when i arrive, eh? :)
<jcater> well, you are down under
<jcater> maybe you should stand on your head
<jcater> and then you can read our dialog
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> sure
Action: ajmitch turns monitor upside down
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:19:16)
Action: ajmitch does renice 19 -u anth
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> hi
Action: ajmitch just to seize back some cpu time to listen to music
<ajmitch> well, you gonna talk to me or not??
Action: drochaid installs seticlient on ajmitch machine and sets it to "reallynotnice" mode :)
Action: ajmitch smacks drochaid around a bit with a large lead-lined trout
<drochaid> oi, lead is bad for the environment
<drochaid> use aluminium instead
<ajmitch> and for skulls
<chillywilly> but lead is heavier
<drochaid> depends how much aluminium you use :)
<ajmitch> and how fast it's going when it hits drochaid...
<drochaid> indeed
<chillywilly> you would need less lead though wouldn't you?
<chillywilly> lead has a higher density does it not?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> it's soft too
<drochaid> but that would also make it harder for ajmitch to throw it halfway around the world to hit me
<chillywilly> just shutup and take your lead like a man
<drochaid> and wouldn't it be irritating to throw it all that way, and then for it to fall 6 feet short?
<chillywilly> sheesh
Action: drochaid totters off to make a turkey, lettuce and parmesan roll
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> chillywilly: back in the right channel
Action: drochaid returns
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> who is the Asif guy and what is he working on?
<ajmitch> i have no idea, he seems to be doing something for enterprise-based stuff
<chillywilly> o he wants to go a step further and make the app server support various environments?
<chillywilly> s/o/so
<ajmitch> i was thinking that for a DotGNU-GEAS object loader, we could wrap some of pnet/SEE in a shared lib & python code, to make stuff accessible
<ajmitch> yeah
<chillywilly> hmmm
<ajmitch> o course that stuff would still be secondary to what we want to do :)
<ajmitch> but it's doable
<chillywilly> cause the way I was thinking we were going to do methods in other langs and that would the extent of it
<chillywilly> but that proposition is intersting...
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I see what you mean with the loader thing
<chillywilly> hmmm
Action: jcater fears another case of over-complicating things
<chillywilly> jcater: I'm not sure I will worry much about this
<ajmitch> or even have a separate object loader that only talks via gnurpc?
<ajmitch> jcater: this'll be bloat we add later to a sleek, clean core :)
<jcater> lol
<ajmitch> it'll be optional
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> yea
<jcater> sounds cool, then
<chillywilly> I don;t think we want to be tied to hard to dotgnu
<jcater> I'd just hate to see us get diverted before we have our base stuff :)
<chillywilly> yea...I really don't want to think too mich abotu dotgnu right now
<ajmitch> with a decent structure they can work on that stuff while we get the base working right :)
<chillywilly> sorry to say
<ajmitch> it's a good idea
<ajmitch> to focus primarily on GNUe
<chillywilly> well, we should keep things in mind for reusability, but I don't want to freakin' make it the focus
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<chillywilly> dotgnu intergration probably will happen after they start getting something going
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<ajmitch> exactly
<chillywilly> and after we have something too
<chillywilly> and tlak it cheap ;)
<chillywilly> er, talk
<chillywilly> blah
[18:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> :P
<ajmitch> i just wanted to keep these nice people in mind :)
<chillywilly> sure
<chillywilly> but we have some other fidh to fry at the immediate moment
<chillywilly> er, fish
<ajmitch> so shall we get down to funky bidness tomorrow?
<chillywilly> not to say it is bad
<chillywilly> tomorrow is your saturday
<jcater> I bet talk w/lots of typos is even cheaper
<ajmitch> and sort out what GNUe needs from an appserver?
<chillywilly> not mine ;)
<ajmitch> yeah, but what you do on friday nights?
<chillywilly> only pressing thing on my schedule is the season finale of Farscape ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jcater> chillywilly: that's what video-in cards are for
<chillywilly> jcater: yea, well...
<jcater> err, vcrs
<jcater> yeah, that's what I meant 
Action: ajmitch points chillywilly to davedina
<chillywilly> who? what?
<jcater> when? where?
<jcater> WHY?
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<chillywilly> how?
<ajmitch> thomasvs's mutation
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> gst based mutation?
<ajmitch> i think so, yeah
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<ajmitch> it's a 'home entertainment system' 
<chillywilly> in software?
<ajmitch> davedina.apestaart.org
<chillywilly> you about to go to bed ajmitch?
<ajmitch> heck no!!!
<chillywilly> or you staying up some?
<ajmitch> look at the time man!
<chillywilly> oh sorry
<chillywilly> DUH
<chillywilly> I am really tired and my mind is playing tricks on me
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Action: ajmitch wonders if he should keep a list of the last 10 deleted items
Action: ajmitch waits for apt-get update
<ajmitch> sigh
<chillywilly> :(
<ajmitch> what?
<chillywilly> you can come over and use my cable connection anytime
<chillywilly> :)
<ajmitch> it's not the bandwidth, it's the fact that there are *still* broken packages that apt-get wants to remove
<chillywilly> I'll hook up a network outside so you can just drive up and hook up ;P
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> network jack
<chillywilly> I meant
<ajmitch> just cos of stupid deps
<chillywilly> craxymike was joking around about that
<chillywilly> crazymike even
<chillywilly> he should be online later so we can play NBA Jam at full speed over Road Runner :)
<ajmitch> oh joy
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> and TMNT
<ajmitch> chillywilly should be hacking!
<chillywilly> yes
<chillywilly> but I have to see caroline tonight
<chillywilly> I miss them :(
<chillywilly> :'(
<chillywilly> soon I am moving out of this hole ;)
<ajmitch> and you have to pay to get cable changed over, too?
<chillywilly> my ma will probably keep this connection ;)
<chillywilly> all I have to do is delete my email accounts and set them up with my own account
<chillywilly> no biggie
<chillywilly> soon is a relative term you know ;)
<chillywilly> I have about $600 saved
<chillywilly> big deal
<chillywilly> we need to buy some more things
<chillywilly> like a couch
<chillywilly> for one
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> I got a kitchen table and  bed for scotty (he can have mine)
<chillywilly> what else
<chillywilly> we have dishes
<chillywilly> towels
<chillywilly> glasses
<chillywilly> I dunno I have a list somwhere
<chillywilly> of what we have and what we need to get
<chillywilly> before we can move out
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> what about a place to move into?
<chillywilly> well that comes after we get some more stuff because then I have to save some more money for a deposit
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> or get a Real Job (tm)
<ajmitch> might as well
<chillywilly> then I have to save money for our wedding
<ajmitch> then you can get away from crazymike! ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> I wub crazymike
<ajmitch> suuure
<chillywilly> It'll be hard to let him go ;)
<ajmitch> you can break off this relationship you know! this is a way out!
<chillywilly> :P
<ajmitch> you won't have to live as a man's man no longer ;)
Action: ajmitch wonders why the silence ;)
<chillywilly> talking on the phone
<ajmitch> sure sure
<ajmitch> you just don't want to talk to me!
Action: ajmitch wonders what psu will think of this - i guess he's used to it by now ;)
<ajmitch> linux sucks, btw
<chillywilly> the kernel?
<chillywilly> why do tou say that?
<chillywilly> er, you
<chillywilly> it's design is as old as the times
<ajmitch> yeah, a friend in the lug channel having to reboot just cos he needs minix fs support :)
<chillywilly> and proven
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> which he wouldn't have to do witht he Hurd ;)
<ajmitch> he shoudl just be able to compile the fs translator & load it as a user
<chillywilly> with the
<chillywilly> yea :)
<chillywilly> now your talking
<ajmitch> the Hurd has it's pitfalls, of course
<chillywilly> sure
<ajmitch> but it's got pretty reasonable design
<chillywilly> yea
<ajmitch> just taking a long time to be implemented :)
<chillywilly> wow, dude
<chillywilly> if I take one of those pngs and convert it to a jpg I cut it form 400K to 16k
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> that blows
<chillywilly> freakin' eh
<chillywilly> why does that blow?
<ajmitch> cos jpg sucks ;)
<chillywilly> why?
<drochaid> wtf is wrong with jpegs???
<ajmitch> drochaid likes them
<chillywilly> they suck for a transparent image
<drochaid> of course I do, they have their place just like most other formats
<chillywilly> but for photos they're cool
<drochaid> anything that lets me put a 4 meg tiff on my website as only an 80kb jpeg has got to be a good thing when there is little or no perceptible quality loss at 72dpi
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<chillywilly> definitely
<drochaid> unless you don't like my photography, in which case you'll probably think that a format such as tiff which is high quality but massively oversized is preferable :)
<nickr> I only use Targa Truevision files
<drochaid> targa? blast from the past there dood
<nickr> hey man
<nickr> don't be knockin my RLE
<drochaid> haven't used that format since ..... around '94 I think
<ajmitch> heh
<nickr> i used it last time I raytraced
<nickr> prolly 3 years ago :)
<drochaid> heh
<drochaid> . o 0 ( bubble!! )
<chillywilly> like I never saw that before ;)
<drochaid> I know, they're sooooo rare :)
<drochaid> just got a bit quiet
<nickr> ssssh
<chillywilly> yea, shut your yap ;)
<drochaid> bleh
<drochaid> anyone know of a decent open source asset tracker?
<chillywilly> open source....does not computer
<chillywilly> compute
<nickr> asset tracker
<nickr> yes
<chillywilly> we don't speak of any open source here ;)
<drochaid> uh?
<chillywilly> only Free Software laddy
<drochaid> oh
<drochaid> politics
<drochaid> joy
<chillywilly> welcome to out Brave GNU World
<chillywilly> s/out/our
<drochaid> I Herd you the first time :)
<drochaid> or is that hurd?
<chillywilly> Hurd
<drochaid> heh
<chillywilly> but nice try anyway :)
<drochaid> I'll get it right one day ... just after they rename it :)
<chillywilly> hey nickr, ajmitch what's the recursive acronym again?
<ajmitch> Hurd of interfaces representing depth
<ajmitch> Hird of unix-replacing daemons
<ajmitch> iirc
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> thanks
<drochaid> ok, so ... anyone know of a decent free software asset tracker? ;)
<chillywilly> or is it
<chillywilly>  Herd of interfaces representing depth
<ajmitch> it's hurd, dammit
<chillywilly> you sure?
<drochaid> lol
<ajmitch>   HURD
<ajmitch>           HIRD of Unix-Replacing DAEMONs (GNU, HIRD)
<ajmitch>   HIRD
<ajmitch>           HURD of Interface Representing Depth (GNU, HURD)
<chillywilly> ah yea
<chillywilly> that would only make it double recursive
<chillywilly> whatever, I am smiking good stuff tonight
<chillywilly> smoking
<chillywilly> crap I have to take the trash to the road
<ajmitch> hehe
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<drochaid> talk to me dagnabbit
<ajmitch> nah
<ajmitch> can't be bothered
<drochaid> that's ok, you're not called dagnabbit :)
<chillywilly> no one here by that name
<drochaid> hmm, must be why they ain't talking to me then :-/
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<ajmitch> why is crazymike here?
<chillywilly> dccing him a samba config file
<chillywilly> ;P
<drochaid> because he's not over there?
<ajmitch> sad
<ajmitch> drochaid: crazymike is chillywilly's 'friend'
<drochaid> I know ... and I have no idea about the context you used for 'friend' .. nope, none at all ...
<crazymike> hey
<crazymike> fuck you all!!!
<ajmitch> yeah, that's nice crazymike
<nickr> not that theres anything wrong with that
<chillywilly> whatever
<chillywilly> youse guys need to get a life
<ajmitch> i know
<drochaid> crazymike: I don't think ajmitch was suggesting you fuck ALL of us >:)
<crazymike> ajmitch: why are you so concerned with me all the time???  Homo-sexual tendencies, eh???
<ajmitch> crazymike: oh i'm just sooo jealous that you take up some much of chillywilly's time ;)
Action: chillywilly feels the love
<ajmitch> chillywilly: keep it to yourself
<ajmitch> you and your 'fat pipe' you're bragging about :)
<chillywilly> byt love isn't love until you give it away
<chillywilly> er,but
<drochaid> he didn't get a son by keeping it to himself ajmitch
<ajmitch> drochaid: that's true
<nickr> sage words.
<chillywilly> speak english nickr
<drochaid> sage financial controller
<ajmitch> we shall all gather around the feet of drochaid the wise
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<drochaid> does that mean I should deodorise them ajmitch?
<ajmitch> drochaid: could be a good idea
<chillywilly> plz do
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<chillywilly> uh oh
<jcater> howdy
<drochaid> hey there doodle pip
<nickr> I don't speak any language aside from english :P
<chillywilly> me either
<nickr> well I speak Brooklynite also
<chillywilly> heheh
Action: chillywilly is away: family
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<ajmitch> hi riandouglas
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<riandouglas> Howdy Folks
<derek> hi riandouglas
<ajmitch> hi derek
<riandouglas> Hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> greetings riandouglas
<jamest_> derek: did you ever test forms
<derek> no
<derek> :(
<derek> i need to but no one is ever around when i am and vice versa :(
<derek> and i dont want to start playing w/o someone around to ask questions 
<derek> as i ahve some specific stuff i wish to try that isnt documented  :)
<derek> i have to eat and put kids down then i w ill have a few hours tonight
<ajmitch> fun
<ajmitch> 'put kids down'?
Action: ajmitch hopes he means put to bed :)
<jamest_> "Um kids...you suck."
<ajmitch> 'just take these pills, will you?'
<jcater> "but finish your dinner first."
<riandouglas> I was thinking more of taking them to the Vet, but same result :-)
<ajmitch> hehe
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<derek> jcater: you around?
<jcater> somewhat
<derek> my kids are watching robin hood (disney)
<jcater> hypocrit
<derek> daughter comes in and asks what does carnation mean
<jcater> :)
<derek> i say its a flower, she says no really dad
<derek> i say really
<derek> so i hear her back up the movie and replay the part
<derek> adn the vulture shoots the sheriff 
<derek> and he says 'what in Carnation are you doing'
<derek> now being a southerner im pretty darn sure its Tarnation
<derek> and its short for Entire Nation
<derek> but i was curious if you knew?
<jcater> it's tarnation
<derek> damn disney suits
<derek> cant even make fun of hicks right
<derek> i spose we oughta trow der arses in da crick
<jcater> iirc it's from "eternal damnation"
<derek> i still find it funny that disney said 'carnation'
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I'm not sure which is worse
<jcater> that 1) I knew the spelling
<jcater> or 2) I knew the history
<jcater> or 3) that I actually use the phrase
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<derek> dont feel bad the tarnation uses the word ;()
<derek> i use it a lot too :)
<derek> and my family teases and says its the 'entire nation' ;)
<jcater> it's a euphemism for "What in damnation!"
<jcater> so by your account
<jcater> entire nation == damnation
<jcater> I could buy that
Action: derek is slurping cvs 
<derek> prepare to die
<derek> or something like that (think princess bride)
<ajmitch> uh yeah
<derek> holy appserver
<jcater> derek: they're trying to fix all the holes
<ajmitch> holy appserver?
Action: ajmitch sees cvs has been fairly quiet lately
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I beat it with a bat
<jcater> and it finally caved in 
<ajmitch> alright
<derek> -------------------------------
<derek> The Los Angeles Times is reporting that the CIA is warning of possible cyber-terrorism  against U.S. and Taiwanese computer systems by the Chinese Army. Or, China could just launch a massive denial-of-service attack by sending billions of "GET HERBAL VIAGRA" e-mails from the .cn TLD." 
<derek> -------------------------------
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> now China uses that unAmerican operating system
<rdean> saw that on slashdot!
<derek> so we can only deduce they plan to hack america right?
<ajmitch> sure
<derek> why else woudl they stop using M$ products
<ajmitch> isn't that everyone's aim in life?
<derek> plus the CIA is shitting thier pants
<derek> as for the first time they arent able to read the chinese governments email
<rdean> wouldn't that DOS clog up their traffic loggers that they use to spy on their people?
<derek> rofl
<derek> rdean: i think the US is proof that spyware
<derek> wont clog lines :)
<derek> er or rather DoS doesnt stop spyware :)
<derek> it merely 'delays' it for a bit
Action: rdean remembers reading that China has a massive gateway to control access to what their people can get to on the internet
Action: derek is a conspiracist
<rdean> probably has loggers on it to find the dissidents
<derek> i think nimbdia and code red were worms put in by microsoft
<derek> as they had so many programs out there collecting information but not sending it anywhere
<derek> they need a virus to help bundle it 
<derek> and send it all 'home'
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:39:53)
Action: rdean 's apache server still gets code red/nimbda hits
<derek> well you see i think they are smart
<ajmitch> rdean: so do i :)
<derek> release a virus that does bad things
<derek> hackers dissect it and say it does X and thats bad
<derek> so then put your 'trojan' in the fix
<derek> as the hackers never 'inspect' the fix
<derek> they just make sure it closes the hole
Action: rdean is thinking about hacking apache to recognize those worms and send out a new response code -- "xxx - No IIS here, dumbass!"
Action: derek thinks this is a common microsoft tactic and the proof is in the pudding
<derek> ex: on more than one occassion m$ has submitted patches for things
<derek> and in basic testing its found they dont close the hole
<derek> no i can not imagine that m$ is that incompetent
<ajmitch> or open more holes
<derek> the people there are smart
<derek> rather im more inclined to think they ahve 'trojan'
<derek> and they test that
<ajmitch> mmm, remember nt4 SP6?
<derek> and a fix and they test that
<derek> and at the last minute they merge them and ship
<rdean> yes, but they've all gone through that training class, so now they no more about security than ANYONE in the world, especially those grungy open source programmers who haven't spent as much time security checking their software (in man-years, no less) as Microsoft
<derek> and these 'failed' patches are just instances where tehy forgot to include the close patch with the trojan ;)
<derek> hey we arent grungy we are grubby
<derek> as in 'get your grubby hands off our music' --RIAA president
<chillywilly> rdean: I want to mail them too ;)
<chillywilly> stupid IIS lusers
<chillywilly> ;P
<derek> cvs [update aborted]: cannot close packages/base/phone/classes/CVS/Root: No space left on device
<derek> bitch
<rdean> half of them prolly don't even know they're running PWS
<ajmitch> chillywilly: j00 c0u|d d05 th3m w1th j00r f4t p1p3!!!
<jcater> derek: me thinks you can delete just one of the "videos" and have plenty of space
<chillywilly> ajmitch: lol
Action: ajmitch has eyestrain now from typing that
<chillywilly> you should be thoroughly beaten for typing that ;)
<ajmitch> oh please do
Action: chillywilly wields trout
<jcater> hmm... juice could do them with four fat pipes?
<jcater> who's "juice" ?
Action: riandouglas out to lunch
Action: chillywilly smacks ajmitch repeatedly with a 30lb trout
<derek> jcater: you know what sucked my disk?
<derek> i untarred two old gnue trees
<derek> so i had 3 gnue trees
<jcater> ah
<ajmitch> ok
<chillywilly> plz no one wants to "suck your disk"
<ajmitch> go on chillywilly
<chillywilly> is that how you kids clal it these days?
<jamest_> rofl
<chillywilly> call
<derek> whacking them got me back 163mb
<rdean> all your sectors are belong to us
<derek> what is the trick to get a size count on a directory
<chillywilly> du -c dir/
<chillywilly> or something
<chillywilly> any combo thereof
<jamest_> du -sk dirname
<jamest_> du -sk * | sort -n 
<chillywilly> yea, listen to the unix gh0d
<jamest_> to see a sorted list of space usage
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<chillywilly> jeff
<derek> 32896	public_html
<derek> 40068	soplayer
<derek> 257888	office52
<derek> 409964	cvs
<derek> 463784	downloads
<derek> 487584	games
<derek> jamest that just rocks
<jcater> sheesh
<jcater> we see where you're priorities are
<jcater> s/you're/your
<jbailey> Heya chilly.
<jamest_> he left off
<jamest_> 1534534 gnue-pr0n
<chillywilly> 456787 pr0n
<ajmitch> 2 pr0n dirs?
<jbailey> ajmitch: Why not?
<jcater> 4335551 g0at-pics
<chillywilly> 876456787 goat-pr0n
<jamest_> btw
Action: jamest_ needs to gloat
<jbailey> ajmitch: Notice they're filed by topic.  The gnue ones are the programming team.
<ajmitch> why, jamest_?
<jamest_> euler$ df -k .
<jamest_> Filesystem            kbytes    used   avail capacity  Mounted on
<jamest_> nfs:/home/jamest     327999600 8115720 303222408     3%    /home/jamest
<ajmitch> not bad
<jamest_> not bad!?!?!?!?
<jamest_> a 327GB home partition isn't bad?
<ajmitch> i guess not
<chillywilly> eh
<chillywilly> you can do better
<jamest_> i think it rocks :)
<jamest_> this is my new home dir server
<jbailey> Gah.  You can't install the Hurd on that! =)
<jamest_> it will replace the 8GM home partition currently in use :)
<jamest_> lets see those users fill this up in a year ! 
<jamest_> who am I kidding
<jamest_> they will
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<derek> jamest_: install gtk-gnutella and a web browser on the machine and its full by end of july
<jcater> you kidding
<jcater> apt-get install gnucash-dev
Action: jcater ducks
<jamest_> lol
<chillywilly> heheh
<jamest_> too true
<jamest_> what is sick
<chillywilly> brb
<jamest_> is that for less that $2000 I put this machine together
<jamest_> it's got 4 120GB drives, dual atholon 1800+, 1 GB ram
<jamest_> my home computer cost as much and it's no where near this kina spec :(
<jcater> now, if it was 4 160Mb SCSI drives, I'd be impressed :)
<derek> sounds like you screwed yourslef then
<jcater> derek: how's that forms testing going?
<chillywilly> mmm, string cheese
<derek> jcater: like crap :(
<derek> im spending the time cleaning my disk up
<derek> i am trying to get my desktop to be my main machine
<derek> so i can wipe laptop and start over with debian
<derek> but having friends over for lan party and will have to install games on laptop to play
<derek> so have to carve some space 
<derek> sigh
<chillywilly> you have friends?
Action: derek is going to get smart and start checking out cvs on my shared drive
<derek> so can use it with laptop or desktop 
<jamest_> apt-get install kleandisk
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<jamest_> k for kde
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<derek> jamest_: this is redhurt 6.2
<jamest_> oooooo
<derek> chillywilly: i dont have friends they are 'church youth' and their paretns make them come :)
<chillywilly> heheh
Nick change: ajmitch_ -> ajmitch
<derek> damn i have a lot of source on here
<derek> i havent installed an .rpm for probably 8 months
<derek> how can people use a 'custom' linux w/o packaging
<derek> for any length of time and not be in hell
<jamest_> encap
<chillywilly> gentoo linux
<jbailey> derek: Custom linuxs are okay.  It's the cross between custom and packaged that's a bitch.
<chillywilly> ports-like system
<derek> jamest_: encap: thats what i said take it in the ass (encap)
<derek> chillywilly: ports like system = packaging
<chillywilly> bu they are all compiled
<derek> so
<chillywilly> ok fine you win
<derek> its still 'managed'
<chillywilly> bastards
<derek> i suppose saying you build your own
<derek> and you dont need no stinking packaging
<chillywilly> fuck no
<chillywilly> I use debian
<chillywilly> and only debian
<jbailey> Woo Debian!
<derek> gives the illusion in CS jerk off circles that you have a bigger penis or sometjhing
<chillywilly> I'm not going to compile it all
<ajmitch> woo, i just killed debian!
<jbailey> chillywilly: I don't compile anything.  Not even my kernel..
<chillywilly> well I make my own kernel debs
<chillywilly> :P
<jcater> dd if=/c/win/command.com of=/dev/hda1
<jbailey> chillywilly: I haven't found anything that the stock ones didn't do for me.
<ajmitch> jbailey: i have
<chillywilly> how about preemption patch and O(1) scheduler patch ;)
<derek> and those are 'soooo' necessary for a desktop ;)
<chillywilly> actually they make the desktop snappier
<chillywilly> so there
<ajmitch> how about a working ppp setup since 2.4.18 is broken with this adsl modem?
<chillywilly> apt-get downgrade testing/ppp
<chillywilly> ;)
<derek> chillywilly: thats like saying i only fuel my station wagon with nitro
<derek> cause i get better performance
<ajmitch> dumbass, it's the kernel ppp, not the userspace daemon
<derek> no matter the cost, the risk and futiliness
<chillywilly> fuck you
<jbailey> ajmitch: Huh.  I know that I had to install userspace pppoe when they broke that, but that was fine.
<chillywilly> ajmitch: boot your backup kernel you freak
<jbailey> derek: Nitro in the station wagon.  Cool.
<ajmitch> jbailey: this is with a speedtouch usb which does userspace pppoa
<chillywilly> your 2.4.17 that left lying around for just these purposes ;)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: wtf are you on about? 2.4.18 is broken, 2.4.17 & lower are just crap
<jbailey> ajmitch: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. 
<derek> jbailey: i said taht example then though man chillywilly might be running a nitro moped or something ;)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you need to just chill
<jamest_> 2.4.18 is broken? in what way?
<ajmitch> jamest_: only in rare cases like with these userspace adsl drivers
<chillywilly> ajmitch: it's not getting under your skin is it?
<chillywilly> ;)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: no, if you were, i'd just leave you on /ignore for a few days until i remembered about you :)
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<ajmitch> chillywilly: i use 2.4.19-pre6 anyway, last time i used a packaged kernel was with mandrake 6.0
<chillywilly> "it" as in the modem situation
<chillywilly> but it is so nice of you to reduce me to a mere object
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<ajmitch> 'it' doesn't bother me since it's not a problem with this kernel
<derek> ajmitch: or you could just kick him
<chillywilly> derek: do it you little bitch
<ajmitch> when talking about ignoring you, i thought you meant 'it' as in your harassment
<chillywilly> I was trying to help
<chillywilly> but I can see you just like whining about it for no reason, even thought you have a working kernel
<chillywilly> go figure
<derek> do what?
<jamest_> nite everyone
<chillywilly> let's see you get ops
<chillywilly> then you mention kicking
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<chillywilly>  2 + 2 is?
Action: chillywilly thwaps derek before it is too late
<derek> huh?
<derek> what you think i would say
crazymike kicked from #gnuenterprise by derek: derek
<derek> kick you like i just did crazymike ;)
<chillywilly> hey that was shitty
<derek> he was sleeping ;)
<chillywilly> yes you would because you're a fucking cock smoker
<derek> i only like grande's
<derek> guess you're out ;)
<derek> muahahahahaha
<ajmitch> chillywilly: would you settle down please?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: maybe you shouldn't be so damned nasty then
<chillywilly> callign people dumbass and all
<chillywilly> then they wouldn't get riled up
<ajmitch> i'm sorry, ok?
<jbailey> "cock smoker"?  What does that mean?
<chillywilly> whatever
<chillywilly> derek: you wouldn't know a grande if it slapped you upside the head
<derek> prolly not
<derek> ok have newest cvs
<chillywilly> derek: but I am sure you would enjoy it if it did
<derek> not as much as i enjoyed your sister last night
<chillywilly> heh, yea she just fkies over to AZ ever so often
<chillywilly> flies
<chillywilly> you fucking twit
<derek> thats right it was your mom, i get so confused at times ;)
<jbailey> MILF! MILF! MILF!
<jbailey> G'night all!
<chillywilly> derek: why do you have to drag everyone else in this you can't be a man and go toe to toe
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Action: derek was gonna say whats the matter, cat got your tongue
<chillywilly> typical
<derek> but i forgot its been years since you have been that close to pussy
<chillywilly> yea, that makes sense
Action: derek misses good old momma and sister bagging, this brings back fond high school memories
<derek> i have a whole bevy of your momma's
<chillywilly> who cares?
<chillywilly> that shit is old school
<derek> yo momma so ugly she hung her head out the car window to yell at someone and she got arrested for mooning
<chillywilly> oh gawd
<chillywilly> don;t even say it
<derek> or another classic
<derek> yo momma so ugly, she had to get the baby drunk, just to breast feed it
<chillywilly> your mom is so old she farts dust
<derek> i like that one
<derek> yo momma so old, i told her to act her age and she died
<nickr> lol
<nickr> derek: I bow to the master of talking shit.
<chillywilly> I can't remember any more of them
<derek> all we did in highschool was talk smack
<derek> i could do yo momma all night (pun intended)
<chillywilly> that is weak
<chillywilly> and I have heard all of those
<nickr> derek: naw, mostly the come backs, etc
<nickr> up there
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<derek> another great one is...
<nickr> yo momma is good, but not the best
<derek> yo momma so stanky, she slows down 'speed stick'
<nickr> man, I just made the best gridcosm tile ever
<jcater> yo momma so old, she still uses a 486
<derek> rofl
<derek> i like it i like it
<jcater> for all you kiddies out there
<rdean> yo momma so old, she still uses punchcards
<jcater> a 486 was the predecessor to the Pentium
<chillywilly> really??!?!?!?!?!
<chillywilly> wow, thanks mr. computer guy
<jcater> np
<chillywilly> I don't know how to even turn this thing on
<derek> better than your mom, every one gets a turn on that thing
<derek> ;)
<rdean> chillywilly: sarcasm should be denoted by <sarcasm>...</sarcasm>
<chillywilly> (don't even thingk about it)
<chillywilly> derek: haw haw
<chillywilly> like I didn't see that shit coming
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> yo momma so nasty, she gets slashdotted twice a week
<rdean> another one to date: yo momma so skanky even Leisure Suit Larry wouldn't do her
<nickr> hey, he had his limits
<derek> rofl
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<chillywilly> yo momma is so skinny she can hoola hoop with a cherio
<chillywilly> aaaaaaw sheeeit, it's all coming back now
Action: rdean doesn't think chillywilly truly gets the concept
<jcater> yo momma so old she still runs DOS
<jcater> err, the humor factor didn't come out as intended on that one
<chillywilly> rdean: I said it a bit wrong so sue me
<chillywilly> you guys are just biased
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<derek> jcater: hmm cvs still might be busted
<derek> or my form is dorked
<derek> or both
<jcater> derek: what in tarnation are you doin'!!!!
<derek> herding cats apparently ;)
<chillywilly> herding gnus
Action: chillywilly is going to become a gnu hurder ;)
<ajmitch> yeah right
<chillywilly> shutup
<ajmitch> you wouldn't last a day out there on the savannah
<jcater> rofl
<chillywilly> how would you know?
<derek> give me a minute jcater 
<chillywilly> you haven't seen me in action
<ajmitch> you know how hot it gets?
Action: ajmitch is thankful there :)
<chillywilly> yea oenguins would melt out there
<chillywilly> penguins
<chillywilly> fine then I'll just go back to my igloo
<ajmitch> yeah, you can overclock better in an igloo
<chillywilly> it's easier to keep your beer cold in an igloo
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<chillywilly> wimp
<chillywilly> he's going to bed like a little girl and I will still beat him to the park and ride
<chillywilly> ;)
<ajmitch> yeah, sure
<derek> jcater things dont seem to work
<derek> let me test one more thing
<chillywilly> I have been the fist one there all week ajmitch
<ajmitch> how would you possibly know he's going to bed like a little girl?
<chillywilly> cause I know mike and he wimps out like that
<ajmitch> it's early!
<chillywilly> and even though I don't get as much sleep who do you think goes out into the field and busts their ass all day ;)
<ajmitch> mike?
<chillywilly> no
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<derek>       <trigger name="Trigger_2" type="PRE-COMMIT">
<derek> blckPerson.autofillBySequence('ntryPK','seq_dcl_contact')
<derek> </trigger>
<derek> is a valid trigger for a block tag correct?
<derek> i.e. PRE-COMMIT
<derek> or has it been altered
<chillywilly> ajmitch: yea, it's not even that late
<derek> jcater?
<jcater> derek: is it not firing?
<derek> let me run with debug on
<derek> its not 'working' 
<chillywilly> btw, where in tarnation is the forms api defined?
<derek> no errors, but its not loading the key in the detail tables
<derek> whether its my form or the forms engine is yet to be told
<jcater> we have an api?
<chillywilly> like if I gots me a widgit and I wants to do sumpin wit it how do I no whats to do wif it
<ajmitch> looks like there's a little interest in geas
<jcater> doc/techref.*
<chillywilly> there's no functions defined int here afaict
<chillywilly> object methods or whatever
<jcater> wtf you be talkin 'bout, fewl?
<chillywilly> he just called autofillBydequence() right?
<chillywilly> er, autofillBySequence()
<chillywilly> is that documented in there?
<chillywilly> I could swear I didn't see it
<derek> DB001: [GFForm:440] Saving blckPerson
<derek> DB001: [GFBlock:250] processing commit on block blckPerson
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcperson
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcperson
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact (last_name,
<derek> first_name) VALUES ('Flinstone','Fred')
<chillywilly> maybe I am just one crack
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcphone
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<chillywilly> s/one/on
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcphone
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact_phone (cont
<derek> act_id,phone_type_id,phone_number) VALUES (NULL,'7','33432342')
<derek> it definitely is passing null's
<jcater> chillywilly: that's recent
<derek> and it appears PreCommit and PreInsert have issues (im not calling preinsert) to my knowledge
<jcater> we verify docs before a release
<jcater> hmm
<chillywilly> er?
<chillywilly> which means?
<derek> chillywilly: the docs actually are good
<derek> they just get a final update before each release
<chillywilly> I read the whole forms ref a while ago
<derek> as you cant tell by my bug bitching righ tnow
<derek> autoFill still isnt release reasdy :)
<derek> though jamest swears it works for him
<jcater> fwiw
<chillywilly> well whatever, that wasn't me point
<jcater> that should be in a Pre-Insert trigger
<jcater> chillywilly: then what was your point, eh?
<chillywilly> me point was I thought the methods of forms objects wasn't docuented
<derek> though last week i gave him a form and he couldnt get it to work so he was 
<chillywilly> cause when I read it I didn't remember seeing it
<derek> chillywilly: there arent methods really like that
<derek> there are events(triggers) pre-insert etc
<derek> and i JUST updated the docs on those like two weeks ago
<chillywilly> but you manipulated the "block" object right?
<derek> the other ones are 'oddities'
<chillywilly> and called a method on it
<chillywilly> right?
<derek> jcater: you want me to chagn ethat to pre-insert and try again
<chillywilly> other widgtes have other methods right?
<jcater> yes
<chillywilly> widgets
<jcater> err, derek: yes
<chillywilly> are those documented...yes...no...maybe so
<jcater> chillywilly: they were just added
<jcater> so, no, they're probably not in there yet
<jcater> but, yes, will be before the release
<jcater> I thought that's what we just said
<chillywilly> the widgtes never had methods before?
<jcater> chillywilly: triggers were not "supported" prior to this next release
<chillywilly> I didn't pick that up from what you said
<jcater> and most of the trigger code has been recently added
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> they never worked until when?
<jcater> we had "triggers" of some fashion or another the last few releases
<chillywilly> what good is a form without triggers?
<jcater> but they were "proof of concept"
<chillywilly> I thought we always had them
<jcater> with this release, we are laying down what a valid trigger is
<chillywilly> and jamest reworked them a bit this time
<jcater> chillywilly: well, in the past, we were directly accessing Form's internals via the triggers
<jcater> which we certainly didn't want form designers doing :)
<chillywilly> ah, so you are telling me that api is changing?
<jcater> I'm saying there was no api until this release
<chillywilly> no more monkeying with forms widget methods
<chillywilly> wellt he examples use(d) objects like block.doSomething()
<chillywilly> I thought they did anyway when I looked at some examples
<derek> 001: [GFBlock:250] processing commit on block blckPerson
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcperson
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcperson
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact (last_name,first_name) VALUES ('Neighbors','Derek')
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcemail
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcemail
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact_email (contact_id,email_addr,email_type_id) VALUES (NULL,'yomama@industrialmeats.com','3')
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcaddress
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcaddress
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact_addr (contact_id,country,addr_type_id,add1,add2,zip,state,city) VALUES (NULL,'USa','2','96 West Betsy Lane','Gilbert AZ 85233','23423','AZ','Memphis')
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsrcphone
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsrcphone
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact_phone (contact_id,phone_type_id,phone_number) VALUES (NULL,'7','911')
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:289] DB-SIG database driver: commit()
<derek> oops didnt mean to paste that much
<jcater> sifg
<derek> jcater: still no dice
<jcater> sigh
<derek>       <trigger name="Trigger_2" type="Pre-Insert">
<derek> blckPerson.autofillBySequence('ntryPK','seq_dcl_contact')
<jcater> wish jamest was here
<derek> </trigger>
<derek> is the trigger
<chillywilly> my typo disease is contagious
<chillywilly> muwahahahaha
<derek> certainly its something dumb in my form
<derek> let me try using the wizard
<derek> with simple form
<jcater> <derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<jcater> <derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<jcater> that's what's concerning me
<jcater> I wonder if jamest changed something I don't know about
<jcater> err,accidentally of course :)
<chillywilly> <entry x="1" y="2" name="one" width="48" typecast="number">
<chillywilly>         <trigger name="Trigger_A" type="PRE-FOCUSOUT">
<chillywilly>            block1.three.__properties__.readonly = True
<chillywilly>            block1.three = "5"
<chillywilly> this is a no no?
<jcater> that's cool
<jcater> but is recent
<chillywilly> so you are still going to argue with me that there's no api for the widgets?
<jcater> argh!!!!
<jcater> no
<jcater> what I said was
<chillywilly> i was just asking if this stuff was documented
<jcater> there was no api until this upcoming release
<jcater> and we finish updating the docs prior to the release
<jcater> at least, no "supported" api
<chillywilly> do you think I care it is "supported"
<chillywilly> I just want to know how to manipulate a block or whatever
<chillywilly> ;
<chillywilly> )
<chillywilly> ok, anwyay I'll stop harassing you now
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> I am just tired and my brain's not working
<ajmitch> ok
<chillywilly> thanks for being the patient and understanding person that you are jcater ;)
<jcater> why does gnuebot run w/operator status?
<derek> DB001: [GFBlock:250] processing commit on block blkDcl_contact
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsdcl_contact
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsdcl_contact
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact (last_name,first_name) VALUES ('Neighbors','Derek')
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:652] Preparing to post datasource dtsdcl_contact_email
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreInsert 
<derek> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: PreCommit 
<chillywilly> I'll just wait until it's all hashed out good now
<derek> DB005: [GDataObjects:677] Posting datasource dtsdcl_contact_email
<derek> DB005: [DBdriver:50] _postChanges: statement=INSERT INTO dcl_contact_email (contact_id,email_addr) VALUES (NULL,'derek@gnue.org')
<derek> same thing on simple form
<jcater> derek: add a "print" to that trigger
<jcater> to see if it's not getting called
<jcater> or whether the autoFill part isn't working
<derek> jcater: he runs with status as under old opn it was only way we could keep channel and get our ops
<chillywilly> print form.Page_1.block2.alter.allowedValues()...I take that's no where to be found either?
<derek> jcater ok
Action: chillywilly will dig through code
<derek> DB000:     self.this = apply(controlsc.new_wxTextCtrl,_args,_kwargs)
<derek> DB000: TypeError: new_wxTextCtrl() argument 3 must be string, not int
<derek> odd
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<derek> jcater: how do you do prints in triggers?
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<jcater> print "blah"
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<derek> ah
<derek> i did print("blah")
<derek> wtf
<derek> DB000:     widgetWidth, widgetHeight, interface, spacer,initialize)
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 773, in _createWidget
<derek> DB000:     newWidget = wxTextCtrl(container, -1, value, defaultPoint, defaultSize, styles)
<derek> DB000:   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/controls.py", line 774, in __init__
<derek> DB000:     self.this = apply(controlsc.new_wxTextCtrl,_args,_kwargs)
<derek> DB000: TypeError: new_wxTextCtrl() argument 3 must be string, not int
<derek> i keep getting this
<derek> sigh
<derek> i cant run forms at all now
Action: derek thinks its possessed
<ajmitch> heh
<derek> sigh wtf
<derek> brb
<derek> jcater: this thing is JACKEd
<jcater> that's a pretty jacked way of typing jacked
<chillywilly> you guys are punding on forms to ready for another release right?
<chillywilly> pounding
<jcater> yeah
<chillywilly> groovy
<jcater> and designer and reports and common
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<chillywilly> hey does each form instance get a serial number because there can be many instances running at the same time?
<jcater> that's the plan
<chillywilly> "plan"
<chillywilly> so how does forms handle concurrency right now?
<jcater> single instances :)
<chillywilly> like if 2 dudes were running the same form and modifying the same info
<jcater> oh
<jcater> then we would have the database lock the record being modified
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> or geas as the case may be
<chillywilly> yea, geas should support an object locking mechanism like in the "Object" interface
<ajmitch> and if the db driver is too crap to provide proper locking?
<chillywilly> pessimistic locking
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> i was thinking about that ;)
<ajmitch> what, lock all accesses to the db?
<ajmitch> not all of them can do row locking, i guess
<chillywilly> yea, some of them blow
<ajmitch> some only manage table locking
<chillywilly> what does the other guy see who doesn't lock the db?
<chillywilly> he gets readonly values?
<jcater> ajmitch: if someone chooses to use a crappy database
<jcater> well, then, that's their decision
<ajmitch> hehe
<jcater> no, I'm serious
<ajmitch> is there a flatfile driver yet?
<chillywilly> bah
<jcater> there's reasons there are "crappy" and "good" databases
<jcater> ajmitch: no
<ajmitch> for those that really don't need any mroe fetures?
<jcater> but it's needed
<ajmitch> yeah
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<jcater> I'd like to get one whipped up by the next-next release
<chillywilly> shouldn't you emulate that behvior if the db does not support it?
<jcater> (i.e., obviously not this one :)
<jcater> chillywilly: how on earth would you do that?
<ajmitch> when are you hoping to release next?
<chillywilly> db abstraction
<chillywilly> of course
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> chillywilly: sure, if they are on the same machine running under the same session
<chillywilly> do your own locking
<jcater> ajmitch: soon
<chillywilly> ?
<jcater> we'd planned on this week
<jcater> but things happened
<chillywilly> well what does it look like if some dude lock the record I am modifying?
<chillywilly> locks
<chillywilly> I am just curious
<chillywilly> how much simulataneous access stuff have you guys tested?
<chillywilly> simultaneous
<jcater> chillywilly: um
<chillywilly> do you get a phantom read? do you step on each others toes? what happes?
<jcater> it's in the works
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> the databse wouldn't let you
<jcater> it'd be a standard database error
<jcater> that gfclient would display
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<jcater> something like
<jcater> "Unable to reserve record for update"
<jcater> would popup on your screen
Action: chillywilly is trying to remember back to his php and postgres hacking days
<chillywilly> ah yes
<chillywilly> would it reread then?
<chillywilly> because someone else has it locked or how would that work
<chillywilly> man I need to play with some of this stuff more
<chillywilly> It's been too long
<jcater> you can read the record if it's locked
<jcater> (or should be able to)
<chillywilly> well in the psssimistic locking thing it goes like...
<jcater> forms will (when we finish it) try to lock the record on the first keystroke you make that would modify it
<jcater> if it can't lock
<jcater> then it wouldn't let you modify the record
<jcater> and issue a warning
<chillywilly> - readers do not conflict with other readers, but writers conflict
<chillywilly>     with both readers and writers
<jcater> "This record is being modified by another user"
<chillywilly> ah, ok
<chillywilly> makes sense
<chillywilly> that would work pretty cool then
<chillywilly> now theoretically shouldn't a db abstraction layer support all features and provide emulation for those that don't support things or do you go with the common denominator? where do you draw the line?
<chillywilly> currently if the pick some crummy db they are SOL right ;)?
<chillywilly> ah well too much "theory" ;)
Action: chillywilly is babbling on and on
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> :)
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> it's good to think about such things isn't it?
<ajmitch> sure
<chillywilly> I really need to take that old project and convert it in order to learn the rest of the tools
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> oh dude
<chillywilly> I forgot to log into my internet banking account
<ajmitch> and?
<chillywilly> er?
<chillywilly> I am just making a statement
<chillywilly> I just got it set up
<chillywilly> and they mailed me my inf
<chillywilly> o
<ajmitch> oh, i thought you might be making a statement for a purpose
<ajmitch> and i was waiting for it
<chillywilly> well it's going to be nice to be able to see all my transaction in real-time
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> chillywilly: for the most part, it's a common denominator
<jcater> but all dbms' should support a minimum of features
<jcater> if not, then they should be renamed to a "relational file system"
<jcater> and not a "relational database"
<jcater> <cough>MySQL</cough>
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<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> mysql does not do record locking does it?
<jcater> um
<jcater> they've gotten better w/4.0
<jcater> but I'm not sure what kind of locking they have there
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<derek> ok back
<derek> um what should i do about my 'issue'?
<derek> file bug?
<derek> wait for jamest?
<derek> send you a tar file of the sample?
<derek> go to bed?
<derek> i cant seem to add a print statement
<derek> if  do then forms breaks
<chillywilly> cool I can transactions that caroline did today
<chillywilly> er, see
<derek> jcater: if i add the print "here"
<derek> to this
<derek> <trigger name="preload" type="Pre-Insert">
<derek> blkDcl_contact.autofillBySequence('contact_id','seq_dcl_contact')
<derek> print "here"
<derek> </trigger>
<derek> i get
<derek> DB000:     widgetWidth, widgetHeight, interface, spacer, initialize)
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 603, in createWidget
<derek> DB000:     widgetWidth, widgetHeight, interface, spacer,initialize)
<derek> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 773, in _createWidget
<derek> DB000:     newWidget = wxTextCtrl(container, -1, value, defaultPoint, defaultSize, styles)
<derek> DB000:   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/controls.py", line 774, in __init__
<derek> DB000:     self.this = apply(controlsc.new_wxTextCtrl,_args,_kwargs)
<derek> DB000: TypeError: new_wxTextCtrl() argument 3 must be string, not int
<derek> dneighbo@latitude:~/cvs/fsfoffice/contacts$ 
<derek> grrrrrrrrrrrrr
--- Fri Apr 26 2002