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<ra3vat> hi all
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<btami> good morning
<ra3vat> hello
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<reinhard> good morning usa!
<jamest> morning
<jamest> is that commit traffic I see coming from reinhard in the appserver folder?
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<jamest> welcome back reinhard
<jamest> you appserver'n again?
<reinhard> not sure about today
<reinhard> at the moment i work for my job
<reinhard> tomorrow possibly yes
<reinhard> btw in case you didn't hear until now
<reinhard> microsoft is going to buy navision
<drochaid> navision?
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<reinhard> one of GNUe's biggest competitors
<reinhard> so to speak :)
<drochaid> ah
<drochaid> maybe their scared of GNUe ;)
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<btami> hi all
<reinhard> hi btami
<btami> is jamest around?
<drochaid> he was recently, probably look in soonish
Action: jamest looks in
Action: drochaid is proved right ;)
<btami> i'm praying for pdf docs
<jamest> argh!
<jamest> dude, I'm sorry
<drochaid> PDF PDF PDF!!! :-D
<btami> i can't print from lyx :(
<jamest> was working on i18n issues last nite
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> let me see what I can do
<jamest> which doc you after?
<btami> techref-common
<drochaid> jamest: I know very little about linux doc formats, but if I can read them on Windows, I'd be happy to write them to pdf
<btami> i can read it on linux, but want print :)
<drochaid> what format are the docs in btami?
<btami> lyx
<drochaid> erk
<drochaid> can I read that with anything on windows?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> lyx
<btami> db2dvi always fails here
<drochaid> heh
<jamest> btami: prepare to be underwhelmed
<jamest> www.math.ksu.edu/~jamest/common-techref.pdf
<jamest> but this is very, very rough and incomplete
<btami> thanks
<drochaid> ah, I see setting up lyx on win32 isn't quite straightforward
<btami> jamest: the requested URL ... not found
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<Arturas> Hello :)
<btami> hello
<jamest> try again
<btami> now ok
<jamest> Arturas: i fixed the gettext issue i believe
<btami> jcater: i fixed the record jumping problem (in ticket #32)
<jamest> btami: lemme look at that ticket
<jamest> ah cool
<jamest> bbias
<btami> bbias?
<jamest> be back in a second
<btami> ok :)
<jamest> btw: maybe this will fix another record jump issue we have
<jamest> :)
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<btami> jamest: the tables in pdf are cut off on right side :(
<btami> in lyx too
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<btami> i know it's rough and incomplete :)
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<btami> Arturas: hi
<Arturas> :)
<btami> i like your i18 working
<btami> it's essential for me
<Arturas> most of the work did jamest
<jamest> huh?
<btami> i just started to make hu_HU
<jamest> i don't have a clue how to do i18n
<btami> not huh, hu_HU :)
<Arturas> he has, he is too shy to admit :)  (=> jamest)
<jamest> i just move code around to make it fit a bit better 
<Arturas> btami: it a bit to early - in about a week it should be ready
<Arturas> is
<Arturas> it's
<btami> i'v just tried it with some hu strings 
<btami> and it works !
<Arturas> :)
<derek> dont be decieved
<derek> working is 'relative'
<Arturas> what is decieved?
<derek> fooled
<derek> tricked
<derek> lied to
<Arturas> mhm, thank you :)
<btami> working is not so 'relative' for me :)
<btami> i'v used "Szerkeszt" in place of "Edit" in wx menu
<btami> and it worked
<jamest> Szerkeszt = Edit?
<btami> yesss
<Arturas> btami: what was text encoding?
<btami> cp1250
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<StyXman> good morning...
<^chewie> morning
<StyXman> uh, who is responsible of designer, again?
<StyXman> (sorry, I sometimes have bad memory)
<StyXman> could be jamest or jcater?
<btami> maybe jcater :)
<StyXman> ack
<StyXman> ok, I've been poking into designer' code. 'vrything looks good, except for Incubator. I can't fond where elemwnts is defined.
<StyXman> s/fond/find/
<StyXman> s/elemwnts/elements/
<jamest> which elements
<jamest> the entry, box, etc?
<StyXman> elements as in Incubator.py:46
<jamest> hang on
<StyXman>   try:
<StyXman>     objclass = elements[tag]['BaseClass']
<StyXman>                 ^that one.
<jamest> same file line 133 i think
<StyXman> oh, shit. yes, there. tnx
<jcater> those are pulled directly from forms/src/GFParser.py
<jcater> iirc
<jamest> they are 
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<StyXman> jamest: it's me, or all the available widgets are *hardcoded* in that file? I thought you loaded from some xml file...
<jamest> That file is the xml to internal widget mapping so is hard coded
<jamest> but that file is only the parser mapping
<StyXman> uh, I'm rather lost. gimme a sec.
<Arturas> what does it do:
<Arturas> self.handleStartupError('Error ..... ')
<Arturas> (from gfclient)
<Arturas> does it only prints error on screen
<Arturas> or does it take additional actions according to the string?
<jcater> no actions based on the string
<jcater> it just displays the string in a fancy format
<Arturas> thank you :)
<jcater> (i.e., neatly on the screen or, in the future, using a popup box)
<StyXman> ok, whar does that big structure mean? I see that Attributes list the valid attributes, and some mappings, but what do the rest of keys mean?
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> i thought that was documented somewhere
Action: jamest looks
<jamest> guess not
<jamest> BaseClass = python class to map to
<jamest> Required = must exist in file
<jamest> SingleInstance = only create one
<jamest> ParentTags = container object in the xml file (example block can contain entry but entry cannot contain block)
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<StyXman> and where are the available widgets defined? I see that those are just for loading already built forms...
<sledge_> Incubator.py worries me
<StyXman> sledge_: me too. why exactly?
<sledge_> it is not OO, beside that fact that it functionality would fit quite nicely in an object
<sledge_> s/in/into/
<sledge_> btw, it is defined in line 133
<jcater> why?
<sledge_> why, why?
<jcater> <sledge_> Incubator.py worries me
<sledge_> the functionality is here, but i miss the readability :)
<StyXman> which why?
<StyXman> (just kidding)
<sledge_> which what -> /usr/bin/what
<jamest> StyXman: all publicly available (via the gfd) widgets are defined in there
<jamest> they are implemented in forms/src
<jamest> sledge_: not OO != bad
<sledge_> jamest: yep, i just mean that it could have been written more clearly; i don't say the code is bad!
<jamest> Incubator does something that will eventually be cleaned up but it works for now
<sledge_> then, i'm happy
<jamest> we have no clean API for designer to work with a form yet
<sledge_> is gnue.common documented?
<jamest> starting to be
<sledge_> you mean, an api which allows for the manipulation of forms? and designer as a front-end to that api?
<sledge_> great (docs rule!)
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<StyXman> jamest: what you mean '(via the gfd)'
<StyXman> (remember I'm truly new, and that I already warned you about me :)
<jcater> well, I'm not sure that's a fair statement, jamest
<jcater> I think designer plays nicely with forms objects
<jcater> the big API deficiency
<jcater> is in drawing the objects
<sledge_> gfd: gnue forms definition, an xml file which contains the definition of a gnue form, created by designer (or by hand) and processed by the forms client
<jcater> i.e., the wx driver needs a better designer-compat api
<wilco> Have you guys looked at using HappyDoc for generating API docs?
<jcater> but I don't foresee Incubator changing too terribly much
<jcater> (as it works w/forms, reports, ....)
<jcater> wilco: yes, I think someone has HappyDoc's of Common somewhere
<jcater> but I'm not sure where
<jcater> we were looking into that last week as a matter of fact :)
<wilco> I noticed there was talk in KC about it
<wilco> Er, about documentation with DB
<jamest> jcater: my bad, i was speaking of the hacks to draw things
<sledge_> well, my problems with designer are (a) few comments (b) the data processed by designer has very implicitly-seeming structures
<jcater> (b) is an extension of (a)
<jcater> as I don't see (b) changing due to the nature of designer
<jamest> i guess that's layoutEditor though isn't it
<jcater> but more of (a) would certainly help aleviate it
<sledge_> damn :)
<jcater> the beauty of designer is that if jamest adds a l33t new widget to the Forms client, 
<jamest> sledge_: we accept patches :)
<jcater> then designer can create/modify that widget without any programming in designer
<sledge_> i see
<jcater> but, I do agree that the interactions need to be better documented
<jcater> s/better/
<gontran> who can i speak with about nstti?
<jcater> that'd be jamest 
<gontran> :)
<sledge_> jcater: if i wanted to document designer's code, (a) how to do (doc strings sufficient?) (b) simply submit as a patch?
<jcater> sure
<jcater> works for me
Action: jcater is away: lunch
<sledge_> well :)
<gontran> jamest: is nstti dusty?  would you mind if i mucked about adding doc strings (for happydoc:) and cleaning up --
<gontran> right now the test script fails in numerous ways
<sledge_> what's nstti?
<sledge_> (sorry for my ignorance)
<jamest> nstti has barely started
<gontran> sledge_: curses implementation
<jcater> gontran: I'd imagine dusty is the wrong word... perhaps "is nstti still swimming in embryonic juices?"
<sledge_> ah. terminal stuff :)
<jamest> it's working w/ a copy of nstti that isn't even availble to the public
<gontran> heh
<gontran> well, i dloaded from viewcvs the tarball and have been cleaning up -- in order to understand and document. From there
<gontran> i'd like to , you know, fix it. :)
<jamest> that would be wonderfull
<jamest> however where are you getting nstti from ?
Action: gontran coughs
<gontran> from view cvs
<gontran> at gnue.org
<gontran> :)
<jamest> um
<gontran> got a fresher tball?
<jamest> we link to that somewhere?
<gontran> must have
<gontran> maybe in the docs on cvs
<gontran> speaking of -- where's the directory reinhard referred to on gnue-dev?
<Arturas> what GFConfig.py (from /forms/src) is responsible for?
<jamest> it takes the place of gnue.conf for providing defaults to an app
<jamest> gontran: nstti status 
<jamest> the author let me put in our cvs as he doesn't have time to work on
Action: gontran nods
<jamest> i started looking at what it would take to make an nstti driver for forms
<jamest> nstti is going to need work before it'll work properly
<gontran> looked a bit like wxUidriver copied over and commented .. yeah.
<gontran> that's what i figured
Action: gontran ADORES curses
<gontran> um, as a user.:)
<sledge_> bye, gotta go.
<Arturas> bye
<gontran> jamest: just wanted to make sure i wasn't duplicating work
<sledge_> Arturas: hey, and have fun with i18n :)
<Arturas> thanks :)
<jamest> gontran: we'd love the help
<gontran> i'll send you patches as soon as things starts getting fixed. :) 
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<jamest> gontran: cool
Action: gontran looks for pen
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<gontran> reinhard: thx for working on documentation
<gontran> reinhard: i can't find it in cvs :)
<reinhard> gontran: what you're looking for?
<gontran> gnue/appserver/docs/Makefile
<reinhard> that file doesn't exist
<reinhard> there is a
<gontran> i seem to be missing the doc directory
<reinhard> gnue/appserver/doc/api/Makefile
<reinhard> and a
<reinhard> gnue/appserver/doc/whitepaper/Makefile
<reinhard> you have to do cvs update -d
<reinhard> to scan the server for new directories
<gontran> ok.  lemme check
<reinhard> even better cvs -z3 update -Pd
<gontran> will that delete anything?
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> empty directories :)
<gontran> ok :)
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<reinhard> -z3 is for compression (you get more speed in updating)
<reinhard> -P means Purge empty directories
<reinhard> -d means create new directories as needed
<gontran> thx
<reinhard> without -d only existing directories are scanned
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<reinhard> off for today
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<Arturas> bye :)
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<siesel> hi!
<chillywilly> yo
<Mr_You> yo
<chillywilly> should I work on the GEAS architecture? ;)
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> or figure out how to lock my thread-safe c++ streams?
<chillywilly> decisions, decisions
<Mr_You> we needed GEAS v2 yesterday
<Mr_You> ;-)
<chillywilly> whatever
<chillywilly> you're not happy with reinhard's API?
<chillywilly> ;P
<Mr_You> I haven't messed with cvs 
<chillywilly> siesel: you look at the Transaction and Database APIs?
<chillywilly> from odmg.txt
<siesel> cw: I just gave it a "small?/ bit?" look.  I 've to look at it again.
<chillywilly> ok, well you need to join me and help sway reinhard into adopting these things ;)
<chillywilly> muwahahahha
<jcater> chillywilly: sorry, but the best I can tell, siesel likes the KISS principle like the rest of us :)
<chillywilly> there's nothing compicated about it
<siesel> KISS?
<chillywilly> it's just a freakin' api
<jcater> Keep It Simple, Stupid
<jcater> a principle that says, if you CAN do it simply, then why overcomplicate
<Mr_You> I prefer KISS and dislike over engineering ;-)
<siesel> I thought KISS=Keep it super! Siesel
<Mr_You> heh, nick with a slogan! ;-)
<jcater> well, that too!
<chillywilly> hey if I can undertsand it, it IS simple
<chillywilly> I don't know what is so "complicated" about it
<jcater> too many prerequisites to get started using it
<chillywilly> how do you figure?
<jcater> nevermind
<chillywilly> that's like saying forms has too many prerquisites in forcing me to learn XML or something ;)
<chillywilly> oh an python
<chillywilly> s/an/and
<chillywilly> etc.
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> nevermind chillywilly
<chillywilly> why?
<siesel> pooh, ....
Action: siesel has read allmost 60% of odmg.txt ...
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<siesel> cw: I think defined in odmg.txt is a superset of the reinhards api.
<siesel> cw: I think the api defined in odmg.txt is a superset of the reinhards api.
<chillywilly> possibly, I;m not discounting his work at all ;), I was teasing
<chillywilly> I plan to look at how to fit them together
<siesel> Their is much good stuff in odmg.txt. f.e. I really like the transaction idea, and the spliting in objects and literals.
<ajmitch> hello
<siesel> hi ajmitch. breakfast time?
<ajmitch> yeah ;)
<siesel> cool.  I still have to wait some hours for breakfast... :(
<ajmitch> i'm a few hours late for breakfast
<siesel> cw: the only problem with odmg.txt is, that its too much stuff in one long text file. And its not quite clear how to implement the stuff.
<ajmitch> chillywilly: managed to convince siesel yet?
<siesel> so, if we could add some code, f.e. some example transaction code, to the example, it would be easier to understand for others, and we could decide if it makes sense or not.
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> could be a good idea to get something working
<siesel> the way to an ODMG compatible GNU application server is long.  so let us first implement GEASv2 and then continue
<ajmitch> implement GEASv2 0.0.1? ;)
<Mr_You> bbl
Action: Mr_You &
Action: ajmitch sees the AI are coding again
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<chillywilly> well at least I know I am not crazy
<ajmitch> yes you are
<chillywilly> :'(
<drochaid> am I crazy?
<ajmitch> definitely
<chillywilly> absolutely
<chillywilly> certifiable
<drochaid> oh good, I'd hate to think I was sane
<ajmitch> it's a scary thought, being sane
<drochaid> it is
<drochaid> it would be enough to drive a sane man insane!!
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<drochaid> heh
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<chillywilly> 8=}
<chillywilly> 8-}
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<dneighbo> N  16 May  7 eToys.com            (18K) Kiddie Pools Starting at $19.99
Action: dneighbo wonders if the pee comes included for free?
<chillywilly> heheh
<jcater> "Hey, j0hn. Wassup!  so, y0u a script kiddie like me yet?"
<jcater> "Hell, no, man.... I'm a p00l kiddie... I pee in ppl's p00ls!"
<chillywilly> boooo...
Action: chillywilly hurls tomatoes at jcater
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<chillywilly> did I mention they're rotten?
<chillywilly> ;P
<dneighbo> rolfmao
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<chillywilly> what are you laughing at dneighbo?
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<chillywilly> wb jcater
<jcater> thanks
<jcater> tank maint?
<jcater> is that your old 486 monstrosity?
<dneighbo> i hate our lug list
<dneighbo> thier answer to 90% of thigns is non free software
<dneighbo> sigh
<siesel> cw: do you like a docbook'ed odmg.txt?
<siesel> l8r
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<jamest> where are we at wrt to release?
Action: jamest is back (gone 00:32:35)
<jcater> well
<jcater> jamest would probably know best
<jcater> might want to ask hi....
<jcater> oh, hi jamest
<jamest> hi
<jcater> well, the biggies iirc were gconfig support
<jcater> derek's trigger troubles
<jcater> which are probably a lack of understanding of the new way
<jamest> i'd say if our development team were not so worthless then we'd be done by now
<jcater> which implies better documentation
<jamest> considering I don't recall the right way I'll cut him some slack :)
<jcater> have we updated docs to reflect trigger support yet?
<jamest> um
<jcater> I don't recall
<jamest> better ask jame....er
<jamest> i don't recall
<jcater> hey
<jcater> that's my line
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> ask jcater
<jamest> that's my line
<dneighbo> i really think we need
<jamest> sounds like we have release issues covers
<jamest> jamest: ask jcater
<dneighbo> prequery support added back in boer release if its not major
<jamest> jcater: I dont recall
<jcater> rofl
<dneighbo> s/boer/before
Action: dneighbo insertints 'total recal' disk to jcater's onboard memory
<jcater> um
<jcater> prequery support
<dneighbo> wtf: general protection fault?
<jcater> well
<jcater> tjat'
<jamest> old arnold flicks will only confuse him
Action: dneighbo smacke jcater
<dneighbo> hmmm
<jcater> that's not just a bug fix
Action: dneighbo calls AI bot support
<dneighbo> darn line is busy
<dneighbo> jcater: tecnically it is
<dneighbo> as it used to work
<dneighbo> so it being broken is a bug :)
<jcater> well
<jcater> last time it worked was one year ago this month
<dneighbo> but as stated only if its not major
<dneighbo> i dont want to hold a release for it
<jamest> i don't recall (tm jcater) the issue
<jcater> it's probably not major
<jcater> but I can almost promise we'll introduce bugs by doing it :)
<jamest> but prequery has to work or dropdowns wouldn't work today
<dneighbo> jcater: ive been complaining about it for 7 months
<jcater> prequery DOES work
<dneighbo> so i was only 5 months slow in noticing it :)
<jamest> jcater: did you hear something?
<jcater> but it's not doing like it did last year
<dneighbo> jcater: just not for ui :)
<jcater> jamest: no?
<jamest> neither did I
<jamest> damn we're good
<jamest> i'm looking at the sequence thing now
<jcater> we will need to remove the
<jcater> if os.environ['LOGNAME'] in ('dneighbo','derek'): self._prequerySupport = None
<jcater> line
<jcater> because that's buggy
<jcater> we really need
<jcater> if os.environ['HOSTNAME'] == 'latitude': self._prequerySupport = None
<jcater> as we may attract other "derek"'s with the next release
<ajmitch> ah
<jamest> yeah
<ajmitch> that's a good idea
<jamest> man that's all done with ordnals and lambadas though isn't it 
<jamest> so it'll be a pain
<jamest> sigh
<ajmitch> what do you have in place for chillywilly?
<jamest> can you can care of that part jcater
<jcater> if os.environ['LOGNAME'] == 'chillywilly': 
<jcater>   print "Oh my gawd, hell froze over and chilly's running our programs!"
<jamest> rofl
<jcater>   raise "Unexpected Fault"
<jamest> oooo
<jamest> typo
<jcater> err
<jcater>   raise _("Unexpected Fault")
<ajmitch> he uses 'danielb' as username
<jamest> raise _("TotallyUnexpected Fault")
<jamest> this sucks
<jamest> i've lost my autofillBySequence test form
<jamest> and I don't recall how it works :)
Action: jamest jumps into .py files
<dneighbo> rofl
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> to the things
<jcater> autoFillBySequence is overkill imho
Action: dneighbo is nice and submits patches
<jcater> as you should simply be able to create a block-level "pre-insert"
<jamest> with 
<dneighbo> a. its ['HOSTNAME'] == 'latitude' OR ['HOSTNAME'] == 'aegagrus'
<jamest> entryname.autofillBySequence('sequencename')
<jamest> by the looks of the code
<dneighbo> b. definitely dneighbo/derek wont work as i use 'laurie' account way to much
<dneighbo> jaemst: that is what you told me :)
<jcater> and have self.myfield = dtsMine.extensions.getSequence('sequenceName')
<jamest> ?????
<dneighbo> jcater: hmmm
<jcater> but I think jamest is rught
<dneighbo> perhaps this is why my form doesnt work :)
<jamest> that's old school jcater
<dneighbo> ah
<dneighbo> i ahve autofillbySequence
<dneighbo> and it no working
<jcater> jamest: no, it uses my l33t pre-insert
<dneighbo> anyhow will be back later
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<jcater> so it's a combination of old-skewl and l33t new code
<jcater> he really should find a better solution than bitchx
<chillywilly> hardy har har
<chillywilly> I am just a wannabe GNUer
<chillywilly> some day when I grow up I'll GNUe
<chillywilly> some day...
Action: chillywilly weeps
<ajmitch> some day chillywilly
<chillywilly> how about today?
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> muwahahahahaha
<ajmitch> go on then chillywilly, hack away
<chillywilly> this fuckin templated i/o shit is giving me a headache I think
<ajmitch> watch yer language, mr chillywilly sir :P
<chillywilly> I keep debating back and forth whther I want to make my class a template or not
<chillywilly> c++ licks balls
<chillywilly> I suppose if I make it a template I will support both char and wchar....yipeee
<chillywilly> screw this, time for a GNUe break ;)
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<chillywilly> hey when is the new forms, designer, etc. release? ;)
<jamest> be on the lookout for airborne pork
<chillywilly> heheh
<jamest> we're trying
<jamest> honest
Action: jamest is stomping bugs now
<chillywilly> yea, I see
<jamest> ?
<chillywilly> freakin' subversions bitch slapped me
<chillywilly> commit-gnue@gnu.org ;)
<chillywilly> that's how I see ;)
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> chillywilly: haven't seen much of you on that list lately
<chillywilly> well that's going to change tonight ;)
<ajmitch> cool
Action: ajmitch has to head off to the bank
<chillywilly> oh crud I am midssing this show
<chillywilly> bbiab
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<chillywilly> back
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<chillywilly> anyone home?
<chillywilly> cool mxdatetime has classes for ODMG
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--- Wed May  8 2002