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<psu> hi
Nick change: gont|way -> gontran
<gontran> hi psu
<ajmitch> yo psu
<psu> ah... and I was just going to do a joke about gont|way being a new form of pyramid selling...
<gontran> lol.  I've got a great story about multilevels :)
<gontran> So i'm buzzing through the local electronics superstore
<gontran>  a couple of months ago, checking out laptops with my pal nigel
<gontran> we're talking about this compaq model's formfactor running
<gontran> a little hot on the ol' lap.
<gontran> making a couple jokes, having a good time,
<gontran> And this fellow walks up, listens a couple seconds, and
<gontran> engages us like he was interested in picking one up
<gontran> ... well we give him some tips on what to buy (he asked)
<gontran> next thing you know, he's giving us his card, and not
<gontran> just any card mindyou, this guy was a
<gontran> VP at BankOne, real estate division
<gontran> he dropped a couple of lines ... 'e*blah', websites, looking for bright young men ... da da da
<gontran> cool.  nigel and i are stoked, spend the rest of the afternoon talking
<psu> "the Bank are looking for a few good men..."
<gontran> about working for bankone making shitloads (heh) of $ 
<gontran> desinging real-estate web pages .
<gontran> So, some time goes by
<gontran> Nigel contacts Dave Egabe (the VP) and
<gontran> tells me 'balls, the guy wanted me to sell real-estate'
<gontran> ok, i figure.  blow it off.  
<gontran> 1 month later i get a call, damn that nigel
<gontran> gave Egabe my phone number, it's Dave.
<gontran> Hey Gontran .... 
<gontran> blah blah get together, e*blah ...d da da
<gontran> cool, so I'm still thinking **dollars!** and set up some
<gontran> swank meeting at the local Hyatt rotating restaourant
<gontran> dress up in flashy city duds, meet Egabe
<gontran> there .  
<gontran> We hit the elevator, and I know it's sour.
<gontran> Dave is talking to complete strangers on the car like 
<gontran> he's their pal.
<gontran> I blow it off, whatever, he's just like that...
<gontran> long story short 
<gontran> heh
<gontran> We start to get to bones over an iced tea
<gontran> and I realize he's pitching me multilevel!
<gontran> fex!  I was pissed.
<gontran> So I start saying things like:
<ajmitch> hehehe
<gontran> 'So Dave, if you're guys are bringing the website, the product, and the clients to the floor,
<gontran> what the hell do you need me for?'
Action: ajmitch wonders at the legality of those things
<gontran> So a couple more hard questions like that
<gontran> <almost to the punch line now ... :)>
<gontran> and Mr. Egabe, Actual VP at BankOne Realestate, 
<gontran> becomes slightly flustered (and confused)
<gontran> and proceeds to 
<gontran> pull  o u t  c u e  c a r d s  with like highlited parts and shit!
<gontran> !
<gontran> So i can't believe it, and I say:
<gontran> 'Dave, are those _cue cards_?!
<gontran> '
<gontran> heh
<gontran> and he like shoves them back in his pocket
<gontran> hehehe
<gontran> I made him buy the lousy tea.
Action: gontran is surprised he didn't get kicked.
<gontran> that's it.
<psu> heh
<gontran> hehe, i've been looking forward to hanging out with the islanders here
<psu> on the ethical scale, I guess MLM is a bit higher than pure pyramid
<ajmitch> islanders?
<ajmitch> only a slight bit higher
<gontran> idk, they all strike me as mostly sad. 
<gontran> see i'm hoping to study in Ire soon ...
<gontran> wanted to get used to the +0000 and +0100 crowd :)
<psu> i'm not aware of any regulars in here from the emerald isle
Action: psu has been to Ireland several times on biz
Action: gontran visited round milenium
<psu> I seem to specialise in finding Dublin taxi drivers who take me to wrong hospital
<psu> happened twice now
<gontran> heh
<psu> 1st time I was v early & managed to recover w/ another taxi
<psu> 2nd time I was already late (fog bound flight in) so it sorta didn't matter either
<gontran> psu you work in medical field?
<psu> but still a good start to the day... NOT
<psu> I used to work for a UK financial s/w provider
<gontran> ah
<psu> that sold into UK health market a lot
<gontran> i work for jamest 
<gontran> currently 
<gontran> though i'm ambitious :)
<psu> and seemed to have every Dublin hospital known to man
<gontran> cool
<gontran> you have any commentary about mater maestercordia <sp>
<psu> gontran: this is definantely the right project for ambitious people 
<gontran> :)
<psu> as we may fizzle out, or may be a small player in ERP
<psu> but 
<psu> we might
<psu> just might
<psu> become a major player in all/some ERP markets
Action: gontran nods
<gontran> i could see the timing work out
<psu> Just imagine the impact as GNUe consultants return those tenders that say
<psu> "License fees $0 - unlimited users"
<psu> "Bespoke work $x, or do it yourself for $0 (we can't stop you)"
<gontran> it's huge. hehe
<psu> "Advice on doing bespoke work, $reasonable"
<gontran> something i haven't broached with anyone on the channel yet (heh, reasonable) is doing some quick work for local edu's in US.
<gontran> there's new legislation requiring edu's that take international 
<gontran> students to "coordinate" via 'the web' to the Immigration and naturaliztion service (INS)
<gontran> There's apparently no spec yet [tm], but the gov't
<gontran> is looking to do it all really quick 
<gontran> (political reasoning aside) 
<gontran> i believe there is an opportunity for some of the base components here, and a good
<gontran> chance to get a 'gov't feather' in the gnue cap, potentially.
<psu> sounds good
<gontran> disclaimer: i've done no reaserch, but heard it ont he news the other day :)
<psu> security would presumably be a big issue
<gontran> yes
<gontran> https
<psu> we can offer ssh, which ought to be good enuf
<psu> better than https, I would have thought.
<gontran> sure.  really, i need to see if a spec is available and do some ananlysis. (for sure.)
<psu> Of couse, y'all US guys have those strong encrypted browsers 
<psu> that we're not allowed
<psu> over here
<gontran> i know.  even though HQ did public key first!
<psu> in case we talk dirty about US & CIA can't crack it ;-)
<gontran> i gotta go
<psu> nite ;-)
<gontran> it's been a real pleasure psu.  
<gontran> ajmitch goodnight
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<ajmitch> hi reinhard
<reinhard> hi ajmitch and all
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<ajmitch> greetings, laurie :)
<psu> hi laurie
<psu> of course, the joke's on us, as it really is laurie ;-)
<ajmitch> heh
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<reinhard> just in case someone looks for me
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<reinhard> i'm out of country for 3 days starting....
<reinhard> ...
<btami> morning all
<reinhard> now
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<esands> hey
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<ajmitch> greetings, esands
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<esands> query.  Just fiddling around with a basic data schema for my 'learn gnue' project and I was wonder...
<esands> is there any guidelines with regards to SQL data types and how gnue sees them?
<esands> ie. money - any particular type I should use?  I guess eventually geas will take care of this
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<ratmice> i was looking at that before i was interrupted esands, learning myself
<ratmice> i was looking for field=
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<Yurik> madlocke: hi
<madlocke> hi yurik...
<btami> hi madlocke
<madlocke> hey btami... any success with postgres?
<btami> yesss
<madlocke> great... what was the problem?
<btami> solution: i used  connection.conf host= (nothing!)
<btami> then in login 
<btami> no user
<btami> no passw
<btami> just enter enter 
<btami> and voila
<madlocke> ah... then it is maybe really the prob that your postmaster doesn't listen on tcp port
<madlocke> did you try the contact_manager.gfd?
<btami> yes
<btami> errors
<madlocke> works?
<madlocke> ah... great...
<madlocke> not good that there are errors but now i know my system is ok ;)
<btami> and errors with another gfd -s
<btami> witch have prequery=""
<madlocke> is prequery something new?
<btami> when it works it makes a "full" query on startup
<madlocke> ah...understand
<btami> it is useful with small lookup tables
<btami> most of time i'm in win32, so i was slow in linux/postgres :)
<madlocke> :)
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<SachaS> hi ajmitch
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<laurie> to someone
<laurie> forms isnt particularly bitchy about data type
<laurie> you can set datatypes in the entry tags
<laurie> so that it will validate against that type in entry
<laurie> and 'masks' exist
<laurie> to format things as date/money etc (though i havent confirmed usage)
<laurie> geas i suspect will be much more bitchy about data typing
<laurie> as it should be
<laurie> jcater: re: reports
<laurie> i think the rtf page break is not working correctly
<laurie> when i created that output.rtf
<laurie> on windows the first page is almost correct and every subsequent page is paged incorrectly but every page has correct data starting at SR 1 and going through
<laurie> on openoffice in linux the paging is also out of sync
<jamest> nice try derek
<laurie> but for some reason every page is 146
<jamest> will still won't help you
<jamest> will = we
<jamest> :)
[09:39] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<laurie> so im not sure exactly what is going on
<jcater> it's gonna take some tweaking w/the rtf
Action: laurie was wondering if you were able to look at the sample at all
<laurie> i can make a more 'simple' rtf
<jcater> as all it does is use a regex to find the header, repeating body, and footer
<laurie> BUT
<laurie> it would be super impressive to them to basically be populating their existing word doc :)
<jcater> there's some changes in CVS
<jcater> btw
<laurie> pre or post tarball creation
<jcater> post
<jcater> err
<jcater> wait
<jcater> it should be in last night's midnight run
<laurie> ok
<laurie> i will update cvs when i get to the office
<jcater> it's still not perfect
<jcater> as like I said, I'm using a regex
<jcater> that needs a little tweaking apparently
<jcater> as looking at your rtf
<jcater> you start off with a table
<jcater> instead of a paragraph
<jcater> you freak
<laurie> well i have heard before that m$ does wild rtf (not quite standard) so this could be part of issue to perhaps?
<laurie> jcater: i dont, jamest created the form
<laurie> blame him
<jcater> oh
<jcater> in that case
<jcater> nice form
<jcater> :)
<laurie> well different jamest :)
<laurie> but a jamest none the less
<jamest> what!?!?!?!?
<jcater> gah!
<jcater> there's more than one?
<jamest> There can be only one!
<jamest> oooooo
<jamest> wait!
<jamest> did the cloning vat work?!?!?!?
<jamest> rock!
<jamest> grab a box of snickers, a big box, and ship him up 
<laurie> jcater: just remember my inate ability to find oddities
<laurie> by the time we get this working
<laurie> it will be like 0.5 state :)
<jcater> it'll be half useful as it is now?
<jcater> is that what 0.5 state means?
<laurie> something like that
Action: laurie runs off to work to cause trouble
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<StyXman> hi people.
<nickr> Hi
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<ra3vat> ÈÅÊ, Õ ÎÁÛÅÇÏ ÈÏÓÔÅÒÁ ÄÁÖÅ ÐÉÔÏÎ ÅÓÔØ 2.1 :)
Action: ra3vat is doing a happy dance
<ra3vat> oops, wrong channel
<drochaid> so your only happy in other channels? :-(
<ra3vat> wrong was to place here the text before dance, my happy is so big it spreads on all channels :)
<drochaid> :)
<StyXman> well, we built a form with a float entry. I can enter float nuber, good, but if I save them, close the app, I get:
<StyXman> (wrong, the error occurs when I reload the app)
<StyXman> DB000:     newWidget = wxTextCtrl(container, -1, value, defaultPoint, defaultSize, styles)
<StyXman> DB000:   File 
<StyXman> nono, it's:
<StyXman> DB000:   File "/home/pronotti/tests/gnue-cvs-2002-05-06/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 775, in _createWidget
<StyXman> DB000:     newWidget = wxTextCtrl(container, -1, value, defaultPoint, defaultSize, styles)
<StyXman> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/controls.py", line 561, in __init__
<StyXman> DB000:     self.this = apply(controlsc.new_wxTextCtrl,_args,_kwargs)
<StyXman> DB000: TypeError: new_wxTextCtrl() argument 3 must be string, not float
<StyXman> (sorry for pasting)
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<dneighbo> are you all aware that gnucash forked?
<dneighbo> it appears gribble and company are creating a new tree
Action: dneighbo is seriously curious if they start to step into GPL violation here soon
<jcater> ?
<dneighbo> jcater: on the list i keep hearing grib say that they moved cvs
<dneighbo> and 'forked' gnucash
<dneighbo> i think his company is tearing out a bunch of stuff
<dneighbo> and adding thttpd and xml-rpc support
<dneighbo> its an odd group there
<dneighbo> but i know grib's company seems very 'commercial'
<dneighbo> and possibly desperate (if they took capital)
<dneighbo> so im curious if this 'fork' is public
<dneighbo> if it is not does his company (all developers of gnucash) have enough of the codebase that they can change license
Action: dneighbo is more curious than anything
<dneighbo> oh dear it just doesnt look good
<dneighbo> http://www.linuxdevel.com/linuxdevel/software/small-business.php
<dneighbo> and they took 500k in venture capital
<dneighbo> to make a peachtree replacement
Action: dneighbo is not beeming with free software confidence on this one
<dneighbo> :(
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<drochaid> dneighbo: console yourself, hitmen are cheap and lawyers are even more effective ;)
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> i dont have a goal to use gnucash for business accounting so im not 'worried' for me
<drochaid> heh
<dneighbo> i do use it for personal finance, but someday i will use gnue i imagine
<dneighbo> just concerned 
<drochaid> hmm, I use Sage for my business needs at the mo
<dneighbo> similar to miguel moving gnome to ximian and going 'corporate'
<dneighbo> im not worried that gnome will not be free
<nickr> hmmm
<dneighbo> im more worried that the big 'free software' projects are going 'corporate'
<dneighbo> as it just sends the wrong message
<dneighbo> if they were successful and making real businesses great, thats a good message
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<dneighbo> but what we have is shitty business models getting venture cash
<dneighbo> and then sinking
<dneighbo> and out of desperation they compromise their morals
<dneighbo> and it just sends bad messages :(
<drochaid> agreed
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<dneighbo> hey dres we were just talking crap about you :)
<dneighbo> maybe you can answer some of the questions :)
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<nickr> that implies that they chose the free software methodology bashed on morals in the first place
<dneighbo> most definitely
<dneighbo> in the case of linuxdevel
<dneighbo> i think they had no allegiance to 'free' software, but are pro open source (if it makes sense to them fiscally)
<dneighbo> they just happened to get hired by gnumatic at the time that did gnucash which was GPL by its original authoer
<dneighbo> in the case of miguel
<dneighbo> im so suprised
<dneighbo> as GNOME was started specifically because Qt/KDE was not free enough
<dneighbo> and miguel very much was clos to FSF
<dres_> talking about linux developers group?
<dneighbo> er close (as in on the board)
<nickr> Its easy to be virtuous when you have no pressures on your
<dneighbo> dres_ yes
<dneighbo> you willing to answer questions about the fork?
<dneighbo> or clarify things :)
<dres_> not really a fork at the moment.
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<dneighbo> dres_ it sounds like it will be
Nick change: dres_ -> dres
<dres> might.
Action: dneighbo considers spliting into a new cvs a fork
<dneighbo> whether the parties want to call it that or not
<dneighbo> this reminds me of some companies that were doing 'developer' cvs vs. end user cvs
<dres> and we are pro free software.  hell we are a couple non programmers, two debian people and two long time free software contributers.
<dres> what have you heard?
<dneighbo> being pro freesoftware and being moral about software are two different things
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<dneighbo> i.e. being 'pro freesoftware' when it suits your agenda only is not being moral :)
<dres> how about.  we all believe in the moratilty of free software, but the reality of the world sometimes means that we can't be pure. (these are purely my views)
<dres> sure it is.
<dneighbo> we can agree to disagree
<dneighbo> its like saying cheating on your wife is wrong (im pro monogamy)
<dneighbo> but damn it if im horny and my wife aint around (i have needs) so bang roadies
<dneighbo> it strongly hurts my stance of being promonogamy :)
<dres> umm.  no it really isn't anything like that example.
<Yurik> guys, how can I say gnome to stop starting nautilus? ;)
<dneighbo> uninstall ximian
<dres> Yurik: uninstall it? :)
<dres> Yurik: sorry.  don't have a better answer.
<dneighbo> but im not here to criticize linuxdevel and/or their practices
<dneighbo> my main question was about the fork
<dneighbo> or 'new cvs' if that is a more comfortable term
<dres> dneighbo: I'm just curious what "practices" we have according to rumor.
<dneighbo> dres: no rumor and not saying you have any practices are bad
Action: dneighbo simply stated the following
<Yurik> i don't want to uninstall :(
<dres> and what have you heard about a fork?
<dneighbo> a. linuxdevel seems to be getting ready to make own cvs of gnucash (and i dont have answers to some thigns)
<dneighbo> b. linuxdevel is over 500k in the ringer to capitalists (which makes them indebted)
<dneighbo> c. common trends show that free software companies that are in debt start to do things that generally they were not doing before they were indebted (and (a) is a good sign its time to watch closely)
<dneighbo> so no rumors exist that anything evil is going on
<dneighbo> or that linuxdevel is doing something wrong
<dneighbo> the answers im curious about
<dneighbo> in the new cvs(fork)
<dneighbo> a. will it be public
<dneighbo> b. will it be GPL
<dneighbo> c. will it have prop extensions
<dres> "prop extensions"?
<dneighbo> the answers to those questions tell me a lot
<dneighbo> proprietary extensions
<dneighbo> i.e. non free software add-ons
<dneighbo> so say the base code is extended and relicensed to BSD or LGPL so that add-ons can be made that are completely non open and/or non free
<dneighbo> see Zend.com for how this plays out :)
<dres> I'm not in charge, but I'm bugging the guy who is for an answer for you.
<dneighbo> i.e. take php (free)
<dneighbo> alter it to allow a semi free (engine) zend
<dres> i'm not aware of a way to turn GPL code into anything else.
<dneighbo> then take that semi free engine and make prop non open no free add-ons for it
<dres> GPL can't be relicensed as BSD or LGPL.
<dneighbo> dres: it depends on if you have copyright
<dneighbo> example if grib and others own say the plugin code copyright
<dneighbo> they could relicense or DUAL license that as BSD
<dres> lol.  sure.  but the twisty maze of gnucash copyrights make that impossible.
<dneighbo> then make plugins or such that are non free
<dneighbo> dres: generally the more 'twisty' and poorly done copyright the EASIER it is to do that
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<dneighbo> as proving who has authority becomes non provable in a court of law
<dres> dneighbo: legally maybe, but not morally.
<dneighbo> look at the state of gnome
<grib> hi all
<dneighbo> at one point it was mostly copyright FSF and RedHat
<dneighbo> now there are more copyright header lines that code
<dneighbo> s/that/than
<dneighbo> hey grib
<dneighbo> dres: i agree that morally its wrong
<grib> dneighbo: dres just pinged me with some transcripts ... did you have some questions I can answeR?
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> in the new cvs(fork)
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> a. will it be public
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> b. will it be GPL
<dneighbo> <dneighbo> c. will it have prop extensions
<grib> a. no ; b. yes ; c. not possible with gnucash (GPL). 
<dneighbo> ok
<grib> there are some proprietary components that work with gnucash, but they aren't linked with it at compile or run time
<dneighbo> so you will not be distributing your code to anyone other than linuxdevel?
<grib> dneighbo: ATM the code hasn't been distributed to anybody.  when it is, those folks will receive a copy of the source code and the GPL. 
<dneighbo> grib: with the understanding if you sell/give the code to company Foo
<dneighbo> if Foo asks for the source you must give it to them
<dneighbo> and further more
<dneighbo> if I as Foo for the software and they give it to me
<dneighbo> I can request the source from you as well, and you are under obligation to give it to me as well
<dneighbo> and restricting Foo from giving the binaries or the source to anyone they please would be a GPL violations
<grib> dneighbo: actually, no.  If I distribute the software and source code to Foo, that's the end of my obligation.  If Foo gives you the software, then Foo is obligated to give you the source.
<dneighbo> i do not believe that is how it is stated in the GPL
<dneighbo> you might have your counsel review it
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<grib> ok, i'm willing to be wrong, but i've read the GPL oh, a million times or so. 
<dneighbo> as iirc this is one area the BIG guys are bitching about
<dneighbo> as they dont want to be left holding the bag as a DISTRIBUTION conduit
<dres> "BIG guys"?
<dneighbo> IBM
<dneighbo> SUN
<dneighbo> etc
<dneighbo> i could be wrong, but i off hand recall some conversation to this effect
<StyXman> uh, running designer, I got this:
<StyXman> Traceback (most recent call last):
<StyXman>   File "/home/mdione/src/work/fvl/gnue/src/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/Designer.py", line 74, in ?
<StyXman>     from gnue.forms.uidrivers.wx import UIdriver as UIwxpython
<StyXman>   File "/home/mdione/src/work/fvl/gnue/src/designer/src/__init__.py", line 1, in ?
<StyXman>     #
<StyXman>   File "/home/mdione/src/work/fvl/gnue/src/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 212
<StyXman>     EVT_MENU(self._wxapp, 102, lambda event, l=self: l.dispatchEvent(GFEvent('requestROLLBACK')))
<StyXman>            ^
<StyXman> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
<dneighbo> StyXman someone doing i18n work isnt testing thier work :)
<grib> dneighbo: where did you get the bits about linuxdevel being in the hole to capitalists?  just curious... it's not true.
<dneighbo> i didnt say in the hole
<StyXman> should I update cvs?
<dneighbo> i said indebted to
<dneighbo> im showing in late june of last year you took 500,000 in private funding
<dneighbo> unless it came from a rich uncle or a dead relative
<dneighbo> i assume that linuxdevel has a certain loyalty or even obligation to produce
<dneighbo> i never said that it was not already repaid
<dneighbo> or that it wasnt partially repaid
<dneighbo> but the world i live in, if someone gives you 500,000 they expect more than 500,000 back
<dneighbo> or something in return (like a dividend of sorts)
<dneighbo> while this amount is paltry compared to the tens of millions ximian received
<dneighbo> it is enough to be held over one's head
<dneighbo> imho
Action: dneighbo wants to make it clear im not accusing, im asking questions
Action: grib is wondering why the questions got forwarded from a third party, in the form of declarations about what we were/weren't doing
<dneighbo> um ask dres
<dneighbo> i simply asked this channel (my friends) what they thought of what was discussed on the gnucash mailing list
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<dneighbo> when dres showed up, i said (hey we were talking about you)
<ICJ> hi
<dneighbo> knowing he was close to gnucash
<dneighbo> i said i was curious about the fork could he answer questions
<dneighbo> he said know but he would ask you
<dneighbo> i also emailed linas and asked him his opinion
<dneighbo> nothing underhanded
<nickr> except for the assassination plot
Action: dneighbo purposely did NOT send a mail to the gnucash list
<drochaid> :)
<drochaid> nickr: not so much a plot as ... an arrangement ;)
<dneighbo> as i didnt want to bring into question the practices of linuxdevel on that list in any way shape or form,(ie i didnt want people to think the questions meant that something was being done incorrectly)
<dneighbo> grib: im a lazy programmer if i knew your email by rote memory like i do linas i would have sent the questions to you :)
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<dneighbo> hearing your answers makes me feel slightly better but not overly confident
<dneighbo> btw: its a good idea when you do things the community might questions to do a release or a FAQ to avoid any confusion :)
<grib> fyi, we forked gnucash CVS several months ago, mainly because people were checking in significant changes that could only cause trouble for us.  we wanted to snapshot CVS for stability.
<grib> all our other code is totally outside the gnucash source tree.  Some of it is required to be GPL because it links against gnucash libraries, but it's not  really "incompatible changes" to gnucash. 
<grib> the direction we're going is more and more to ditch gnucash completely because its architecture is pretty broken in some respects and not very scalable.  we can do better for our special purposes.
<ICJ> what is the topic at the moment?
<ICJ> my car is broken :-(
<drochaid> ICJ: the topic is "Do you prefer green or red peppers?"
<ICJ> no, who forked Gnucash?
<ICJ> Who is grib?
<grib> me :)
<ICJ> ;-)
<ICJ> Do we have the 5th season in this channel?
<dneighbo> sorry got pulled away
<dneighbo> grib: re your comments, i see no problem with forking, sometimes its just necessary
<dneighbo> doing so with out really announcing is not a way to win the community over though (imho)
<dneighbo> the other problem i see
<dneighbo> is that you are taking gpl code and virtually making it private
<dneighbo> and evolving that
<dneighbo> at some point you will say 'we rewrote it' it isnt gpl anymore
<dneighbo> but people will have a hard time discerning the truth behind this
Action: dneighbo is doing some research
<dneighbo> if you take gnucash
<dneighbo> and add to it
<dneighbo> and give that new code to someone else
<dneighbo> you might be under obligation to give it to anyone that had the original code you started with
<grib> dneighbo: is that legal advice?  :)  thanks for the warning.  
<drochaid> I'm definately no expert on GPL, but I was under the impression that unless you held 100% copyright on the codebase, you were under obligation to release any modified source that was used anywhere other than internally?
<dneighbo> its not legal advice
Action: dneighbo is curious of matters of licensing
<dneighbo> not saying something is right or wrong
<dneighbo> that is for a lawyer or someone with a legal degree to discern
<grib> drochaid: it's not that simple.  you should check out the GPL text.  it's actually quite straightforward and clear.  Also there's an FSF GPL FAQ that fills in with examples. 
<dneighbo> im just stating some of my understandings (which could be incorrect)
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<drochaid> grib: absolutely nothing is simple when it comes to licensing, if it was laywers would be poor ;)
<grib> dneighbo: ok.  i hope you will be satisfied ATM with this: (1) our software has not been distributed, so it doesn't yet have a license (in our source trees of 100% our code, the file COPYING states "you have no rights to this software if you do not work for Linux Developers Group.")  (2). I grok the GPL and have no intention of violating it in any way, because that would be illegal and there's no reason to go there. 
<nickr> You aren't
<nickr> obligated afaik
<nickr> you only have to provide the source and rights to those you distribute to
<nickr> but the right give them the ability to also distribute it.
<drochaid> "<nickr> you only have to provide the source and rights to those you distribute to" sorry, I call that a release
<dneighbo> nickr: where it was ambigous was it states iirc
<dneighbo> 'All Third Parties'
<dneighbo> but is a third party whom you distribute to or anyone
<dneighbo> from the FAQ
<dneighbo> it does appear that if you distribute to company Foo
<dneighbo> and Foo distributes to Me
<dneighbo> i could stil come to you for the source
<nickr> I don't think so, I think its foo's responsibility,
<dneighbo>  What does this "written offer valid for any third party" mean? Does that mean everyone in the world can get the source to any GPL'ed program no matter what?
<dneighbo>     "Valid for any third party" means that anyone who has the offer is entitled to take you up on it.
<dneighbo>     If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source code later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means that people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.
<dneighbo> The reason we require the offer to be valid for any third party is so that people who receive the binaries indirectly in that way can order the source code from you. 
<nickr> at least thats what I gathered from FSF propoganda
<dneighbo> This means that people who did not get
<dneighbo>                the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.
<dneighbo> now i could be misreading that
<dneighbo> and its saying Foo is obligated
<dneighbo> which i think they are as well
<dneighbo> ah ok they clarify later
<dneighbo> i think perhaps you could put the onus back on Foo
<nickr> yea
<dneighbo> grib: i think your answer to (2) is what is important
<dneighbo> and that is there is no intention to violate
<dneighbo> as to #1 thats custom software and there certainly is nothing wrong with that :)
<dneighbo> we do it all the time with gnue
<nickr> the letter of the GPL appears to only require the distributer himself to include a source code vector
<nickr> so if I distribute it to you, and you distribute to him, you are responsible for his source
<nickr> OH
<nickr> scratch that
<nickr> see the GPL, term 3, a, b and C
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<gontran_> morning all
<gontran_> i love the smell of licensing in the morning
<grib> on a completely different subject, and of you SQL weenies know what the standard approach for disconnected operation is WRT allocation of sequence numbers?  say I want to failover to a local server when the "master" goes offline... I can use write replication to keep the local DB up-to-date until the offline event happens... but after that...
<grib> when I unsert stuff into my local db and allocate a sequence number, and some other client does the same.. oops
<grib> er, 'insert'
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<dneighbo> ok two things
<dneighbo> a. built-in sequences generally are evil :) (but even if you used the more correct approach it doesnt solve this issue)
<dneighbo> b. it would happen on the resync routine
<dneighbo> many vendors do this in briefcase or 'disconnect' mode that has nothing to do with failover but rather is used for 'mobil' purposes
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<dneighbo> what you do is bring the data set down
<dneighbo> i think you were caling this local DB up-to-date
<dneighbo> and as soon as its flagged 'offline'
<dneighbo> the local db begins assigning sequence numbers
<dneighbo> which will be unique to the local db
<dneighbo> but obviously all the local dbs will be doing the same thing so you wont be unique
<dneighbo> then when you flag 'online'
<dneighbo> it basically does a sync routine
<dneighbo> and during this routine it does its inserts back into the master w/o a seq
<dneighbo> letting the master assign the seq
<nickr> dneighbo: whats the proper way to do sequences?
<dneighbo> i.e. the seq assigned during 'offline' mode
<dneighbo> generally you dont let the db do it because its not standard among db's
<dneighbo> and some dbs are REALLY horrid about letting you maintian (reseed and such)
<dneighbo> so you handle by making your own sequence tables
<dneighbo> and manipulating
<grib> dneighbo: makes sense ... I was basically on the right track :) 
<dneighbo> it gives finer control and is more portable
<dneighbo> but definitely more of a pain
<dneighbo> postgres actually does sequences pretty good (i.e. they give you lots of tools to manipulate)
<dneighbo> but try using autonumber in mssql or sybase
<dneighbo> and be ready for hell :)
<dneighbo> if i was using a good database and wasnt overly concerned about portablity i would use the sequences of the database :)
<dneighbo> just cause im lazy
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<dneighbo> jcater did you look into supporting 'table' as first element instead of 'paragraph' in the rtf filter?
<jcater> not had a change
<jcater> chance
<dneighbo> no problem was just curious
Action: dneighbo is going to play with master/detail in the grd i think
<dneighbo> and then will play with parameters
<dneighbo> so i only print one of these things at a time :)
<dneighbo> nulling the need for paging :)
<dneighbo> at least temporarily
<jcater> I find the rtf format thoroughly confusing
<jcater> so I'm still trying to figure out just which tag is the table tag :)
<dneighbo> um
<dneighbo> we have case sensitive issues in datasources again i think
<dneighbo>   <sources>
<dneighbo>    <datasource database="dcl" name="dtsWO" table="workorders"/>
<dneighbo>    <datasource database="dcl" name="dtsUser" table="" master="dtsWO" detaillink="id" masterlink="responsible" />
<dneighbo>   </sources>
<dneighbo> is the source definition
<dneighbo> ommon/GDataSource.py", line 243, in secondaryInit
<dneighbo> DB000:     raise StandardError, \
<dneighbo> DB000: StandardError: Detail source 'dtsUser' references non-existant master 'dtswo'
<dneighbo> is error
<jcater> you have no table defined there
<dneighbo> nevermind
<dneighbo> gack
<dneighbo> do now
<dneighbo> same error
<jcater> yeha, I knew it was unrelated
<dneighbo> but i get same error even making lower case
<jcater> but still....
<dneighbo> wondering if its just a reports thing
<dneighbo> as forms seems to be ok master/detail
Action: Yurik is thinking whether to go home and have some beer or to stay here for the night and code 
<dneighbo> what i dont get is it seems to be in common's datasource code
<dneighbo> which works for forms
<jcater> I'm sure it's an initialization problem
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<sledge_> hi there
<sledge_> jcater: concerning rtf, there is an open rtf and a microsoft rtf
<jcater> ya
<dneighbo> ok its definitely a reports issue
<jcater> Yurik: go home, get bear, come back, and code all night
<dneighbo> i took a workign gfd
<jcater> s/bear/beer
<dneighbo> and copied its datasrouces into my grd
<dneighbo> and get the same error
<Yurik> jcater: i can't drink beer at office :-( it's prohibited
<sledge_> Yurik: please go fetch us all a beer :)
<dneighbo> Yurik he said 
<dneighbo> GO HOME
<dneighbo> get beer
<dneighbo> come back 
<Yurik> sledge_: :)
<dneighbo> code all night
<Yurik> :)
<sledge_> "teach people not to drink and hack", remember? :)
<dneighbo>  /msg jcater guess the russians havent found out that "lemonade" is better than beer and generally isnt prohibited (wink wink)
<sledge_> what is .ua domain?
<dneighbo> uganda?
<sledge_> whoa
<dneighbo> whoa?
<dneighbo> isnt vim descended from uganda?
Action: Yurik got a phone call from GF to have a party w/ friends.. :)
<Yurik> sledge_: Ukraine
<dneighbo> i.e. didnt original vim author used to be missionary or something there and original license said donate to uganda :)
<sledge_> nope, the main vim hacker asks people to donate money
<sledge_> Yurik: oh, that's quite a difference, ukraine and uganda :)
<Yurik> sledge_: yeah, really. Ukraine differs from Uganda :)))
<dneighbo> i was going to say ukraine as my first choice
<Yurik> Ukraine is quite famous by its Chernobyl ;))))
<dneighbo> but was thinking it was ur for a minute
<sledge_> Yurik: i hope you are an active developer, not a radioactive one :)
<Yurik> sledge_: I'm quite far away from Chernobyl, something about 1k km
<Yurik> sledge_: so just an active one ;)
<dneighbo> http://www.din.de/gremien/nas/nabd/iso3166ma/codlstp1/en_listp1.html
<dneighbo> if you ever question a code :)
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<dneighbo> .ug is uganda it appears
Action: Yurik is closing windows and starts going to a subway to have a party
<dneighbo> i wouldnt want to be from bolivia (.bo) is just a bad stigmatism to have :)
<dneighbo> example, if the net is good but .net is better
<drochaid> lol
<dneighbo> then if bo is bad imagine .bo ;)
<sledge_> the coolest country with a domain is still .tv :)
Action: Yurik is submitting changes
<Yurik> .to is a good one to ;)
<Yurik> go.to
<Yurik> :)
<dneighbo> .ma :)
<dneighbo> and .pa
<dneighbo> morocco and panama, unlikely parents i think ;)
<Yurik> We, russian-speaking, have fun at .no (Norway)
<Yurik> since gov.no is like sh.it :-)
<dneighbo> im gonna be really politically incorrect here but
<dneighbo> PALESTINIAN TERRITORY, OCCUPIED
<sledge_> *g*
<dneighbo> PS
<dneighbo> how on earth can there be a country code for something that doesnt have a country?
<sledge_> israeli-bomb-ooo.ps (ducking)
<dneighbo> i.e. can someone show me palestine on a map?
<Yurik> dneighbo: somewhere there
<Yurik> :)
<sledge_> there ->
<sledge_> see it?
<dneighbo> i see israel with some shaded areas that say 'occupied by palestine' ;)
<dneighbo> or somethign to that effect
<sledge_> i hate their damn childish war
Action: dneighbo assumes there wouldnt be a war going on if palestine had a country to call its own
<Yurik> in fact, israel occupied palestine and not palestine occupied israel 
<Yurik> afair
<dneighbo> Yurik ture
<dneighbo> er true
<dneighbo> i didnt mean to get grossly off topic, but i found it funny that a country code exists :)
<dneighbo> for well, a non country
<Yurik> well, lucky top domains and coding
<Yurik> byebye
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<sledge_> .aq is antarctica *g*
<sledge_> perhaps a good place to host intel servers (hint hint)
<drochaid> surely you're not claiming they run hot? ;)
<sledge_> i never would ;)
<StyXman> wow, www.gnue.org.aq, out farm of very silent quad 2GHz computers :)
<sledge_> perhaps gnue can move its cvs there, then code freezes are much easier
<dneighbo> http://www.frozenscrotum.aq
<StyXman> :)))
<dneighbo> jcater: any hints where to look for init problem?
<dneighbo> as all the trace is in common
<dneighbo> but i assume common is ok if forms is working
<dneighbo> and its just how reports is calling it?
<jcater> prolly
<StyXman> and who the *hell* has .aq NIC? UN?
Action: drochaid considers buying a little cottage in antarctica
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo> ########
<dneighbo> ########  Please keep this file neat !!!
<dneighbo> ########
<dneighbo> no emphasis there eh :)
<sledge_> StyXman: http://www.linux.aq/
<dneighbo> def loadReport(buffer, connections, initialize=1):
<dneighbo>   return GParser.loadXMLObject (buffer, xmlReportHandler, 'GRReport', 'report',
<dneighbo>            initialize, attributes={"_connections": connections})
<dneighbo> might be where issue lies, but i dont know the code well enough
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<dneighbo>       report = GRParser.loadReport(fileHandle, self._connectionManager)
<dneighbo> seems to make that call
<dneighbo> do you think self._connectionManager is passing bad connection information?
Action: dneighbo doesnt know internals enough
Action: dneighbo cant seem to find where connectionManager is defined
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<dneighbo> it seems to get passed allover town but not sure where it originates from :)
<jcater> GBaseApp.py
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<StyXman> if I want to use postgres, whuch driver should I use? I use psycopg...
<dneighbo> that is a good choice :)
<StyXman> ... and get error like:
<StyXman> DB000: TypeError: new_wxTextCtrl() argument 3 must be string, not DateTime
<StyXman> (ah, the the error is not related to that, but the error is there.)
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<dneighbo> sigh we are seeing this alot
<dneighbo> can you try another form?
<dneighbo> i think this is a form issue
<dneighbo> i.e. what form are you running?
<StyXman> uh, it's the *only* form we developed... the only one with data.
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> fwiw: i had this problem too
<dneighbo> and i cant recall how i got rid of it
<dneighbo> but i thought it was a form problem
<StyXman> mdione@tempest:~$ gfcvs src/work/fvl/gnue/src/forms/samples/contact.gfd
<StyXman> Unable to load locale information falling back to default English language translations.
<StyXman> Gdk-ERROR **: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
<StyXman> using forms/samples/contact.gfd....
<StyXman> YFI, I'm using lxr to btowse gnue's source code. it rocks.
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<gontran_> evening psu
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<psu> evening gontran
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<ICJ> as to dneighbo writing: how on earth can there be a country code for something that doesnt have a country?
<ICJ> country codes are not only for countries
<ICJ> well, technically they
<ICJ> are
<ICJ> ´but the maintenance agency does not make decisions what a country is
<ICJ> Taiwan, province of China is also a country for that purpose
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<ICJ> Jersey and Guernsey also are
<ICJ> United States Minor Outlying islands
<ICJ> also are
<Harald1> ICJ: Taiwan province of China? Don't let an Taiwanese here this
<ICJ> why?
<ICJ> you are wrongly informed
<Harald1> ICJ: because from their point of view they are independent
<ICJ> Taiwan holds itself a province of the R.O.C.
<ICJ> no, they are not
<ICJ> and they have not declared themselves indep.
<ICJ> Taiwan is an established de-facto regime for nearly all purposes of international law
<ICJ> but it is not an state by itself
<jcater> it's all a matter of perspective
<Harald1> ICJ: hmm, ok. it sounded a bit strange as Taiwain hasn't really good relationships with China
<ICJ> it considers itself part of the R.O.C, the R.O.C.'s government having its temporary seat in the province of Taiwan
<jcater> which is why there can be country codes for countries that don't exist (in your perspective) :)
<ICJ> whereas most parts of China are under control of the government of the P.R.O.C.
<ICJ> which also considers Taiwan part of China
<ICJ> *g*
<ICJ> they only differ in what is the legitimate government of China
<ICJ> I think most US protectorates will have country codes
<Harald1> so both say they are china, just remembering the joke from mad tv: with the democratic republic of congo and the peoples republic of congo (afair both exited, too=
<ICJ> yes
<ICJ> with their capitals on the two sides of the Congo
<ICJ> they both exists
<Harald1> yes  zaire and conga-brazzaville, right?
<ICJ> I don't know with what status code they will exit
<Harald1> zaire now being congo
<ICJ> one is Ex-Zaire, yes
<ICJ> yes
<ICJ> Congo-Kinshasa, for simplification
Nick change: gontran_ -> gontran
<ICJ> that are only countries having the same name
<ICJ> not two countries thinking of them as the same
<Harald1> well that's far more complicated in africa ...
<StyXman> guinea appears on several afrincan countries and there's papua and new guinea in oceania.
<StyXman> guinea conakry, and I cna't remenber the rest.
<Harald1> guinea bissau?
<gontran> StyXman how do you like lxr?
<StyXman> that ine too.
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<ICJ_> reee
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<ICJ_> anything I missed?
<StyXman> gontran: how? 
<gontran> StyXman :) do you find any faults with it?  
Action: gontran is considering making a gentoo ebuild for it to try 
<dneighbo> lxr is out of date
<dneighbo> for gnue
<dneighbo> iirc
<dneighbo> unless someone fixed the rsync
<gontran> ?
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<StyXman> yes, it fails to catch some identifiers. it's e-ctags, really.
<gontran> hmm
<StyXman> ah, no, I use my copy of lxr.
<ICJ_> hi siesel
<psu> does anyone know how to make mutt use another editor than vi?
<psu> I've added EDITOR=foo to my .bashprofile
<psu> but it doesn't seem to want to play
<gontran> .muttrc , set editor=''
<psu> ?
<StyXman> psu: and setting it .muttrc?
<psu> if I don;t have a.muttrc, do is just cretae one?
<dneighbo> jcater: how can you use params as query options?
<dneighbo> i.e. pass a param like SR Number
<dneighbo> and then it queries that SR?
<gontran> yup, maybe just one line in it set editor="your_editor '+/^$'"
<jcater> um
<gontran> that way other defaults don't get overwritten, ithink
<jcater> <datasource name=".." ...>
<jcater>   <condition>
<jcater>   <eq>
<siesel> hi _ICJ
<jcater>    <cfield name="srnumber"/>
<jcater>    <cparam name="srnumberparam"/>
<jcater>   </eq>
<jcater>   </condition>
<jcater> </datasource>
<jcater> iirc
<dneighbo> ah cool, i was thinking totally different :)
<gontran> psu that line works for using vim at least :)
<dneighbo> in looking at params
<dneighbo> do i have to define a param?
<dneighbo> like
<dneighbo>   <parameters>
<dneighbo>      <parameter name="sr_range" description="Range For Query"
<dneighbo>                 default="%"/>
<dneighbo>   </parameters>
<dneighbo> and then in what you posted it would be 
<dneighbo> <cparam name="sr_range"/>
<jcater> yip
<jcater> btw
<dneighbo> what can i use for like
<jcater> you HAVE to pass parameters on the command line at the moment
<dneighbo> instead of <eq>
<jcater> reports does not prompt for missing parameters
<jcater> at the moment
Action: dneighbo needs to start a manual :)
<jcater> um
<jcater> I *think* there's a like
<jcater> lemme look
<jcater> btw, you are getting into untested waters, right now
<jcater> just be forewarned
<jcater> the code is there
<jcater> but isn't heavily tested
<jcater> yeah, I think there;s a <like>
<jcater> dneighbo: for an idea of what's supported, look at common/src/GConditions.py
<dneighbo> cool
<dneighbo> um odd
<jcater> at the bottom of that file is a dictionary of supported tags
<dneighbo> B000:   File "/home/dneighbo/downloads/gnue-cvs-2002-05-14/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/dbdrivers/_dbsig/DBdriver.py", line 376, in __conditionToSQL
<dneighbo> DB000:     raise GConditions.ConditionNotSupported, \
<dneighbo> DB000: gnue.common.GConditions.ConditionNotSupported: Condition clause "cparam" is not supported by this db driver.
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:~/service_requests$ 
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<jcater> sigh
<jcater> @#$!#$
<dneighbo> my syntax wrong?
<dneighbo>   <parameters>
<dneighbo>      <parameter name="sr_range" description="Range For Query"
<dneighbo>                 default="1"/>
<dneighbo>   </parameters>
<dneighbo>   <sources>
<dneighbo>    <datasource database="dcl" name="dtsWO" table="workorders">
<dneighbo>      <condition>
<dneighbo>        <eq>
<dneighbo>          <cfield name="jcn" />
<dneighbo>          <cparam name="sr_range" />
<dneighbo>        </eq>
<dneighbo>      </condition>
<dneighbo>    </datasource> 
<jcater> that's right
<dneighbo> when i 'called' the report i didnt give it a param (on purpose) hoping the default would kick in
<jcater> ok
<jcater> you don't have cvs do you?
<dneighbo> mostly because i wasnt sure how to pass param
<dneighbo> nope :(
<dneighbo> i need to get that fixed here though
Action: gontran watches glibc-2.2.5 compile output scroll by
<jcater> in common/src/_dbsig/DBDriver.py on line 352
<jcater> change that to 
<jcater>       elif otype == 'cparam':
<jcater> currently it is
<jcater>       elif otype == 'param':
<jcater> which is wrong
<jcater> I've fixed in CVS
<jcater> but it's one character, so you can probably change
<jcater> unless you want me to email you a fixed file
<dneighbo> kick ass params work
<dneighbo> i think this will over come my paging issues for now
<dneighbo> since i will only be generating one sr at a time
<jcater> cool
<dneighbo> only thing outstanding i think to make this work is
<dneighbo> a. getting master/detail working
<dneighbo> b. making php call the reports via 'exec'
<jcater> lol
<jcater> I'm doing b. right now :)
<jcater> well, indirectly
<jcater> if you want my script, I can send it to you
<jcater> it's a little specialized to my setup though
<dneighbo> well the real bitch
<dneighbo> is going to be getting gnue working on the redhat 6.2 production box where the webserver is here :(
Action: dneighbo is just spoiled by apt
<jcater> lol
<jamest> have your php exec an ssh which commands reports to dump to stdout 
<jamest> then you can put reports on a debian box 
<jamest> hmmmm
<jcater> well
<jamest> wonder if that'd hurt responce time much :)
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<jcater> jamest: no
<jcater> you should see what I'm doing w/my Zope setup :)
<jamest> does it involve recursion?
<jcater> not completely
<jamest> does it involve self modifying code?
<jcater> yes
<dneighbo> jamest: well you see the code he is writing doesnt have recursion
<dneighbo> but the self modifying code produces recursive code
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<jamest> lol
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<jcater> well, I have my zope server talking to Oracle on my solaris machine w/no problem
<jcater> however, I want to let out sales reps download the actual reports we print for them
<jcater> so I've hacked Oracle Reports to spit out PDF to a file
<jcater> (thank you ghostscript!)
<jcater> so I have apache+php running on the reports server
<jcater> which exec's oracle's runrep
<jcater> zope calls this php server
<jcater> to retrieve the pdf reports
Nick change: gontran -> gon|away
<jcater> and sends them on their merry way
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<dneighbo> im hoping php has an exec
<dneighbo> that waits until completion
<dneighbo> as in my case i will have dcl call a page
<dneighbo> that passes the sr_number
<dneighbo> execute the report and create the rtf
<dneighbo> when exec is done
<dneighbo> php checks file exists 
<dneighbo> if it does it merely opens the rtf otherwise it errors
<dneighbo> or something SIMPLE
<dneighbo> as i want a different solution long term this is the 8 hour fix
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<siesel> \quit later
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<jcater> dneighbo: if you can whip me up a master/detail test report
<jcater> I can debug it tonight
<chillywilly> sup niggies?
Action: chillywilly is goign to see Star Wars tomorrow at 10:30am
<jcater> not much
<chillywilly> be there ot be square
<chillywilly> s/ot/or
<chillywilly> is da masta here?
<chillywilly> is he going to catch star-wars-itus tomorrow?
<chillywilly> hehe, psu's wuit message is cool
<chillywilly> er, quit
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<chillywilly> heelllloooo!
<chillywilly> wake up dudes
<dsmith> I'm probably going Friday night with the family
<chillywilly> I am taking my family
<chillywilly> scotty, caroline, and I
<chillywilly> hehe, someone suggested using a 'rubber' icons for clear form
<chillywilly> icon
<chillywilly> gee, I wonder where he could be from
<chillywilly> hmmm, they call erasers rubbers in hungary?
<chillywilly> hu == hungary right?
<dneighbo> jcater no problem :)
<chillywilly> dneighbo: well?
<chillywilly> dneighbo: you finna see star wars dawg?
<chillywilly> *sigh*
Action: chillywilly trout slaps dneighbo for fun
Action: chillywilly wonders where caroline is and why she doesn't answer the phone
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> if I had to guess
<chillywilly> don't say it
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> stop right there
<jcater> brb
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<StyXman> hi, chillywilly 
<chillywilly> ello
<dneighbo> chillywilly hello
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<dneighbo> um i have tomorrow off :)
<dneighbo> going to zoo then hopefully to starwars
<chillywilly> weeee :)
<chillywilly> dneighbo: but do you hav tickets yet?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> i might actually wait until next week to go
<chillywilly> I bought mine online
Action: dneighbo isnt a huge movie guy
<dneighbo> i prefer home theater
<dneighbo> jcater: any chance datemasks work in reports :)
<jcater> um
<jcater> no
<jcater> but I might can hack in 
<jcater> if you want to be beta tester for them
<chillywilly> dneighbo: I like home theater too
<dneighbo> not huge item, master detail much more important
<dneighbo> btw: abiword pukes on the rtf 
<dneighbo> formats it like crap
<dneighbo> but msword and openoffice do well
<chillywilly> dneighbo: but some movies have to be seen ion the big screen
<chillywilly> s/ion/on
<dneighbo> i think its cause it was word saved rtf though
<dneighbo> not something you are doing wrong in rtf
<dsmith> Hah!
Action: chillywilly slaps dneighbo aroud some more
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<dsmith> My brother-in-law (also known as "boss") has seen the original Star Wars 33 times in the theater.
<chillywilly> hehe
<chillywilly> so why isn't the whole office going together dsmith?
<dsmith> Can quote the whole movie. line for line.
<dsmith> With sound effects.
<chillywilly> you should close down for the day ;)
<dsmith> I'm still in Michigan.
<dsmith> Leaving tomorrow.
<chillywilly> I read in an article that $200 million will be lost in the tech industry due to star wars movie
<dsmith> Gonna implement on Sunday.  I hang around on Monday for any problems.
<dsmith> Then I'm free.  FREE!!!
<chillywilly> w0000!
<dsmith> And looking for another gig. :(
<chillywilly> heh
<dsmith> I've just submitted a project to be housed at savannah.
<dsmith> Waiting for an email.
<chillywilly> what project is that?
<dsmith> mod-guile
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> is that an official GNU project?
<chillywilly> er, you making it one?
<dsmith> Not GNU but it's gpl
<chillywilly> I wish someone would respond to my email on bug-commoncpp
<dsmith> Actually, it's the Guile license.  GPL but you can link to it without making your app GPL.
<dsmith> Apache and GPL have conflicting licenses
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> I know
<chillywilly> apache is non-copyleft
<dsmith> Soon, all the world will be writing web pages in Scheme instead of php.
<chillywilly> you knwo I was thinking about this the other day and the GPL reminds me of the Boston Tea Part in that it a sort of protest-like license...the digital equivalent of dumping tea into Boston harbor
<chillywilly> Party
<dsmith> Yeah.
<chillywilly> wan
<chillywilly> er, wasn't the battle cry No Taxation Without Representation?
<chillywilly> or something
<chillywilly> I like my analogy though...I need to make good use of it ;)
<chillywilly> ok, well I have a bunch o' thing to do
<chillywilly> cya l8r ppl
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<dneighbo> is dtm around?
<dneighbo> sigh 
<dneighbo> i remember him saying rpm was easy
<dneighbo> on this slow machine its taking me nearly 30 minutes to browse around to find gnue dependencies (rpms)
<dneighbo> and chances are they will fail once i get them
<dneighbo> how is this 'as easy as' apt-get again?
<dsmith> dneighbo: Bah!  don't listen to 'em.  rpm is terrible.
<dsmith> Time to Leave
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<dneighbo> not to mention the dependencies are on slowforge
Nick change: gon|away -> gontran
<gontran> dneighbo got my papers, posting the both (gnue, and nstti) today. do you
<gontran> know, could you xplain to me the deal with nstti again?  authors licesnes etc. 
<dneighbo> i can try
<dneighbo> i think jamest found it and liked it
<dneighbo> he contacted the maintainer who basically said he wasnt really using it anymore so wasnt maintaining
<dneighbo> jamest felt it was better than what existed
<dneighbo> so him and the maintainer agreed it would be ok for us to put in our cvs tree and alter it
<dneighbo> i think the idea is that if we start to alter it that we will just 'adopt' it
<dneighbo> and it will be pretty much GNUe Curses (under the nstti name) or such
<gontran> is says 'this code usable under lgpl' is that good enough?
<dneighbo> the problem is that we dont put things in our tree w/o assignment
<gontran> right
<dneighbo> so its in our off tree
<dneighbo> so its not 'official' GNU
<dneighbo> there has been talk amongst us of whether its worth getting assignment from original authors
<StyXman> ok, see you tomorrow.
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<dneighbo> at which point it would be come official gnue
<gontran> I mentioned the authors to the fellow at the fsf, he mentioned he was looking into it
<dneighbo> the issue there was current maintainer isnt current author
<dneighbo> so its kind of been handed from person to person without good record
<gontran> hmm
<gontran> well, i'm sending my papers in today.
<dneighbo> which is why i preach that REGARDLESS of what license a project is under if you contribute code to it make sure it has its copyright in order or you could learn lessons the hardway :)
<dneighbo> SOOOO many projects have done copyright so poorly
<dneighbo> i would rather see a project say
<gontran> interesting discussion re gnucash this am
<dneighbo> im the copyright holder if you submit a patch to me it becomes mine
<dneighbo> than have this hodgepodge that is indefensible should the time arise
<gontran> ... for licensing. :)
<dneighbo> with gnue i think we approach nicely because we ask for the copyright so we dont have the hodgepodge, but we dont want to restrict the contributor from his own work so we leave full copyright with them
<dneighbo> as well
<gontran> oh, i wasn't aware.
<gontran> that is nice
Action: gontran looks for photocopier
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<dneighbo> you heard it here first
<dneighbo> "Friends dont let friends use rpm's"
<gontran> a twelve step program for rpm addiction
<drochaid> rpms rawk dood
<drochaid> if only deb used rpms .... the world would be happy and fighting would cease :)
<dneighbo> where on earth can i get
<dneighbo> libcrypto.so.2
<dneighbo> libexpat.so.0
<dneighbo> libssl.so.2
<dneighbo> none show up in rpmfind.net
<drochaid> they're part of openssl I seem to recall
<drochaid> I had a hell of a job finding libcrypto.so.2 when I wanted to test pgsql crypt auth
<dneighbo> drochaid you are correct but will take me another 20 minutes to confirm
<dneighbo> rpm sooooo painful
<drochaid> lol
<drochaid> you're about to find out I'm wrong
<drochaid> consultants aren't allowed to be correct ... goes against everything we stand for ;)
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<dneighbo> yo yo yo mdean
<dneighbo> i have some stuff to email you
<dneighbo> changes to dcl and such
<dneighbo> it should be ramping up quick :)
<jcater> quickly
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<drochaid> dneighbo: any joy with libcrypto.so.2 et all?
<mdean> wassup?
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<dneighbo> he lives :)
<dneighbo> sigh drochaid the openssl stuff wants newer libc than i have
<dneighbo> im just gonna FORCE it
<dneighbo> with nodeps
<drochaid> :-(
<dneighbo> fsck
<dneighbo> its still bitches about libssl
<drochaid> what about an older openssl ver?
<dneighbo> libcrypto and such
<dneighbo> i gvie up
<dneighbo> i give up
<dneighbo> trim eto install from source
<gontran> now your talking!
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<gontran> dneighbo can i send you slackware style package tarballs to try?
<drochaid> ssh, don't say slackware to dneighbo unless you want your nether regions branded with a hot iron ;)
<gontran> dneighbo slackware!
[19:22] Last message repeated 4 time(s).
<gontran> :)
<drochaid> lol
<gontran> drochaid that was 'slackware _style_' :0
<gontran> just going to let him try binary copies of my libs 
<gontran> why not!
<drochaid> hey, *I* like slack
<gontran> you guys like binary only right!?
<gontran> cool, it's an excellent distro
Action: gontran sniffs with memories
<drochaid> heh
<gontran> it was ... my first 
Action: gontran exhales
<drochaid> I started linux with slack v3
<drochaid> much nicer than netbsd on an amiga ;)
<gontran> wow
Action: gontran bows to drochaid
<gontran> hows gnue ipv6 support drochaid?
<drochaid> nah, now if I'd got it working on my speccy 48k or commodore 8032sk .. that would be worth a bow ;)
<drochaid> I'm not a programmer so I can't answer that ... well, I could, but it would be wrong
<drochaid> but would gnue require ipv6 support if the systems it ran on were using it?
<gontran> heh.  my most exotic install was ppclinux on a mac powerbook 1440
<gontran> drochaid: that's what i figure :)
<gontran> but it would be sexy to say : 'Now with IPV6 support!'
<drochaid> lol
<drochaid> well I've got a friend doing lots of ipv6 work just now
<drochaid> just got him hooked on dcl .. so maybe I can get him interested in gnue as well
<gontran> man ipv6 is just sooo cool!  i love that stuff. 
<gontran> heh
<gontran> i'm excited to have gotten snail mail from gnu.org :)
<drochaid> snail mail?? o
<drochaid> people still use that? ;)
<gontran> :)
<gontran> i'm stoked about gnue.
Action: gontran wags tail
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<drochaid> heh
<drochaid> bbiab
<dneighbo> im going from source
<dneighbo> just too busy righ tnow 
<gontran> :)
<dneighbo> must run tata
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<ajmitch> gontran
--- Thu May 16 2002