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<chillywilly> night all
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<ajmitch> hi reinhard
<reinhard> morning
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<btami> morning all
<ajmitch> hi
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<Harald1> hi
<reinhard> hello Harald1
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<ariel_> HI!
<ariel_> Does forms works with a "number" entry against  an "int4" field in a postgres database?
<ariel_> if i try to add a new  record, with, say value 1, it tries to do an atoi(1.0) and raises an exception
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<reinhard> ar7
<reinhard> oops
<reinhard> wrong window
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<siesel> hi gnue
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<siesel> hello reinhard. 
<reinhard> hey siesel
<siesel> sorry, Yesterday evening  I 'd no time.
<reinhard> no problem
Action: siesel got a daughter.
<reinhard> yesterday
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<reinhard> ?
<siesel> "Mia" born at 3 o'clock tonight.
<reinhard> congrats!
<siesel> thx. 
<Yurik> siesel: congratulations! :)
<siesel> btw. you remember the point we talked about yesterday?
Action: siesel is a very happy father.
<reinhard> yes i remember
<reinhard>   (i think)
<reinhard> btw saw your ROADMAP and agree mostly
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<siesel> I thought of adding some more definitions to the whitepaper. like introspection ( i.e. passthru of table definitions in case of v.0.1)
<StyXman> hint: gfcvs cannot open files with spaces in its name.
<StyXman> mdione@tempest:~$ gfcvs src/trash\ \&\ toys/table_against_table-test.gfd
<StyXman> Error: Unable to open file
<StyXman>      [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'src/trash'
<StyXman> :(
<siesel> what do you like to change?
<reinhard> i think there are a few points to add
<reinhard> like you said introspection
<reinhard> or support of more than one database
<reinhard> or security concept
<reinhard> which are all features that will appear in some version
<siesel> i think introspection should be implemented when the GClassDef/GObjDef Stubs are added. that means before v 0.0.2
<reinhard> yes agree
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<reinhard> if we decide to put class definitions in the database then introspection will be easy anyway
<siesel> I think we have to put very very basic introspection support into v 0.0.1 just to make the dbadapter work.
<reinhard> does forms need that?
<siesel> I've added an "0.0.4   has very basic security support". 
<reinhard> hmmmm
<siesel> The driver seems to need it. But it should work without too.
<reinhard> i wouldn't put security so early
<siesel> ok, i'll change it into "0.0.4   has very basic security support (=login and password check)"
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> :)
<reinhard> we could do a list like
<ajmitch> hi
<reinhard> 0.0.1 ...
<reinhard> 0.0.2 ..
<reinhard> until 0.1.0
<reinhard> then add
<ajmitch> siesel: congrats :)
<reinhard> Later (unsorted):
<reinhard> ------------
<reinhard> * ...
[09:11] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<reinhard> etc.
<siesel> hi ajmitch. thanks.
<reinhard> it looks strange to me to have 0.2 through 0.4 undefined and then 0.5 again defined
<reinhard> :)
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<jcater> hi
<Yurik> jcater: hi
<siesel> I just added "0.5" to say that there will be a important milestone. (=0.5) which is the point where appserver supports transactions. i.e. appserver is getting usable in large enviroments, like 0.1 means usable for a small application.
<siesel> hi jcater.
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<reinhard> siesel: ah
<StyXman> DB000:   File "/home/mdione/src/work/fvl/gnue/src/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFDisplayHandler.py", line 717, in __init__
<StyXman> DB000:     self.trueValues =  ('Y','y','T','t','1','x','X', trueValue)
<reinhard> i don't usually see 0.5 as a special version (other than 0.4 or 0.6)
<reinhard> but now i understand what you are after :)
<StyXman> I grep'ed all the sources. no reference ti trueValue. could it be a misspelling?
<siesel> So which from which version number do you think should appserver itself support transactions? 0.6 ? 0.8 ?  
<reinhard> i'm not sold about version numbers
<reinhard> what we could do is just list the post-0.1 features unsorted and decide about the order to implement them later
<reinhard> after talking to jamest and jcater about appserver and what they want to see
<reinhard> and maybe after getting experiences with 0.1 and seeing what is missing most urgently
<StyXman> uh, I changed it to 'self.trueValue', as I see that 3 lines before that member is loaded from the config files. could it be the right fix (tm)?
<reinhard> if we see that we need transactions very bad then maybe 0.2 will support transactions
<reinhard> if we see it's not a big problem then maybe 0.8
<siesel> ok.  I aggree.
<reinhard> "Planung ist die Ersetzung des Zufalls durch Irrtum"
<reinhard> ;)
<reinhard> (sorry don't know the proper translation to english)
<siesel> But I would like to have a "Version 1.0 must have" in the roadmap. just to see what feature is really really needed.
<ajmitch> ah, feature punting :)
<reinhard> yeah
<siesel> "Das Missverstaendnis ist der Ausgangspunkt fuer einen Dialog"
<reinhard> i would say in the "other planned features (unsorted)" we have a line
<ajmitch> so you're gonna have a list of milestones & features to be done by each milestone?
<reinhard> -------- end pre 1.0, start post 1.0 -------
<reinhard> or like that
<siesel> I would do it not quite like that. I don't want to decide which feature is post and which is pre 1.0. I just want to have a "minimum requirements" for release 1.0 list.
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> agree
<siesel> This could be archieved also by adding a "(required for 1.0)" after the feature in the list.
<reinhard> i let you post a ROADMAP and tell you later where i disagree
<siesel> hehe
<reinhard> j/k
<reinhard> ;)
<ajmitch> so are these targets going to be set in DCL?
<ajmitch> would be a nice way of keeping track of things ;)
<siesel> the new ROADMAP is in cvs.
<ajmitch> ooh fancy
Action: ajmitch does cvs up
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<ajmitch> wb siesel
<ajmitch> ltns
Action: siesel hate broken irc clients
<siesel> there is no one faster killing irc clients
<ajmitch> hehe
<siesel> btw. what do do to get an dcl account, and how should we manage that list?
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<ajmitch> pester derek until he gives you an account?
<reinhard> siesel: thanks for ROADMAP
<reinhard> looks good
<reinhard> however i fear after talking to others a few more lines will get the (required for 1.0) remark :)
<ajmitch> especially once jcater & others get to it
<reinhard> i guess it's really my turn now to implement data writing
<ajmitch> the 'customers' ;)
<reinhard> siesel: how is the status with the python-xmlrpc library replacement?
<siesel> possibly we should add an (required for 0.4) and an (required for 0.6) just to make everybody lucky ;)
<reinhard> siesel: lol
<siesel> ajmitch: done.
<reinhard> did i understand correctly that we need xmlrpc to connect forms with appserver?
<ajmitch> what is?
<ajmitch> reinhard: i hope not - it shoudl be able to run without xmlrpc
<ajmitch> for single-server installs
<ajmitch> well, when forms & appserver are on same box
<siesel> ajmitch: But there are still some things to fix. like a garbage collection etc.
<ajmitch> siesel: right
<siesel> reinhard: as I understand it : appserver needs GNURPC to run. but there is only XMLRPC working now.
<reinhard> ah ok
<ajmitch> what other rpc transports could we do?
<reinhard> then it would be great to have a version of gnurpc available with geas 0.0.1
<siesel> SOAP, Corba, piro...
<ajmitch> gnurpc is in common, right?
<reinhard> that doesn't have to be installed from source on usual distributions (= debian)
<ajmitch> hmm, make appserver dependant on gnue-common
<siesel> yep. gnurpc = GComm.py GCommBase.py and drivers from common/commdrivers
<reinhard> ajmitch: it is anyway
<ajmitch> reinhard: then we have nothing to worry about :)
<reinhard> for data access, too
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<ajmitch> so there needs to be a driver written so forms can talk to appserver?
<ajmitch> there's an old geas DBDriver
<jcater> how's it going, goys?
<reinhard> ajmitch: siesel has done (parts of) that driver
<siesel> GNURPC has two working xmlrpc drivers now: one supports the python-xmlrpc in debian.
<reinhard> jcater: you sure you want to ask that?
<reinhard> ;)
<ajmitch> morning jcater
<reinhard> siesel: finished that? cool!!
<ajmitch> ok, that's good to know, reinhard :)
<siesel> if you want to know if it works, just start appserver by calling gacvs and choose option 3 from the gtestcvs program
<ajmitch> so what can i do after exams? :)
<siesel> it= GNURPC
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<ajmitch> dneighbo!!!
Action: ajmitch bows down
<jcater> reinhard: I wasn't ignoring you this weekend
<jcater> wife and I are buying a new house
<jcater> so I'm having to deal with all that packing
<jcater> AND finishing all those house projects I started over the years :)_
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<reinhard> jcater: no problem
<reinhard> dneighbo: have you already seen the new whitepaper and our roadmap?
Action: reinhard is away: dinner
Action: jamest has also been busy with real life
<jamest> it's looking bad most this week and weekend
<dneighbo> reinhard: havent looked
<dneighbo> but have followed most of discussion and figure its not high on my list
<dneighbo> as i disagree with direction and implementation
Action: dneighbo runs off to work
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<nickr> I'm a non-dairy creamer addict.
<ajmitch> nickr!!
<nickr> hey
<drochaid> non-dairy creamer?
<drochaid> you mean tipex??
<jcater> non-dairy creamer?
<jcater> you mean, donut filling?
<drochaid> jcater: I think you're entering the realms of what should only be discussed in #sexwithdonuts, wouldn't you agree?
<siesel> bbl
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<StyXman> suppose I have 2 tables, A and B, with the following particularity:
<StyXman> table B is for relating one element from A to several elements *also* in A
<StyXman> I wrote a form that has a master view on table A, a slave view on table B, and a slave view on table A, being slave of the previous slave.
<StyXman> but the from doesn't work as I spect. the view on table B shows all the record, but the second view on table A just shows the A's recods related to the actual B's record.
Action: drochaid is away: food time
<StyXman> I need it to show all the records that are related to B's records.
<StyXman> hint: the relation type between B an tha second A is one-to-one.
Action: Yurik is away: beer
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<reinhard> StyXman: not sure if i understood your data model
<reinhard> why don't you make table A and table B into one table
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<reinhard> and let table A have a column that points to the "parent"?
<dneighbo> jcater: were you able to look at m/d reports last night?
<reinhard> has anybody here taken my pen?
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<jamest> StyXman: what are you wanting it to do
<jamest> ?
Action: drochaid is back (gone 00:34:04)
<dneighbo> jcater: can you do compound queries in reports?
<dneighbo> like
<dneighbo> thisfield = foo and thatfield = true
Action: dneighbo tried a few variations of teh <and> tag 
<dneighbo> and didnt get crashes but didnt seem to work
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<StyXman> reinhard: we have things in A that can be composed of more things in A. B tells how much of A things comopose an A thing.
<StyXman> A things are products. some products can be composed of other products.
<StyXman> reinhard: why? because is the exception and not the rule. if I put the qty and parent, I'll be wasting too much space.
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<reinhard> StyXman: ah now i understand
<dneighbo> i think your layout might be slightly flawed for concept of master/detail
<dneighbo> do you have a sample schema or sample form?
<dneighbo> it might be easier than discussing A vs B vs A
<dneighbo> StyXman ?
<dneighbo> also you work with chipca right?
<dneighbo> i think he submitted some ERD stuff
<dneighbo> but it was .toz or something, what format is that?
<StyXman> dneighbo: sorry, working in another desktop...
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, I work with chip, yogur2 and aprono.
<StyXman> dneighbo: zot. it's very simple. it's text.
<StyXman> table
<StyXman> <ident>field
[12:16] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<StyXman> <ident>field -> Table
<StyXman> (that was foreign key)
<StyXman> then 
<StyXman> table
<StyXman> <ident>field
<StyXman> ...
<StyXman> and so on.
<StyXman> there are some thing marked as :thing:. ignore them.
<dneighbo> hmmm is it merely schema?
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, with little things to draw it properly (:things:)
<dneighbo> if so we have an xml format you could use
<dneighbo> that then creates sql create scripts for most of our supported databases
<dneighbo> and creates pretty html documentation for them
<StyXman> chip developed a zot -> dotty translator. dotty rocks. we get a very nice ERD.
<dneighbo> http://gnue.org/~dneighbo/fsf/datadictionary.html
<dneighbo> is an example of the html output
<dneighbo> if you click on a table name it expands
<dneighbo> i am looking to make it so you can from a dia ERD document
<dneighbo> push a button and it generates our xml data definition
<dneighbo> which then makes the purdy documentation schema
<dneighbo> as well the scripts to actually create tables
<StyXman> xml? at the beggining was just to remember what we said about the tables. then it become the actual ERD. next time, maybe.
<StyXman> and we wanted to get a nice drawing we can print a put on the wall for later consults.
<dneighbo> im excited that you guys are using gnue
<dneighbo> and hope we can help you move forward
<StyXman> we too. we hope to help you as much you help us. or maybe more.
<dneighbo> if you can give jamest or i more detail about what you are trying to do (re: a to b to a) we might be able to help
<StyXman> uh, how?
<StyXman> can I send you a gfd?
<dneighbo> you can post it to web or email it me
<StyXman> no dcc?
<StyXman> ok, web will be. just a sec.
<StyXman> http://www.grulic.org.ar/~mdione/table_against_table-test.gfd
<dneighbo> ok looking now give me a few
<StyXman> ack
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> what is a whiphit?
<StyXman> dneighbo: it's just a quantity.
<StyXman> uh, don't take much time looking at form component's names. they're just names (fun ones, I think, but names)
<dneighbo> i misread
<dneighbo> i thought whiphits was FIELD name
<dneighbo> not ENTRY name :)
<dneighbo> i see qty now 
<StyXman> the trick is that one thing in whipBlock has one thing on slaveBlock.
<dneighbo> im still not understanding why you would want this relationship
<StyXman> uh, may be I'll cal chip to join us.
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<dneighbo> well i might understand it, but trying to get teh logic behind it more
<Chipaca> hello, salchicha!
<StyXman> again, a product can be composed of several other products.
Action: Chipaca 's brain is somewhat shorted from his exam
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<dneighbo> i assume that is what product structure is
<StyXman> wow, the whole gang...
<Chipaca> dneighbo: you're trying to understand the zot?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> the form
<Chipaca> oh
<StyXman> yeap. tells how much products we need to make another product.
<dneighbo> i guess im thinking that if you defined tables differently you wouldnt need product twice in this form
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<dneighbo> but i want to make sure im not missing some logic :)
<StyXman> we can't use two fields. a product can be a component of several other products.
<dneighbo> StyXman : im not sure the value of productstructure
<StyXman> and a (composed) product can have several (kinds of) products composing it.
<StyXman> value?
<dneighbo> er sorry of the last product display
<dneighbo> the table looks ok
<dneighbo> but not sure what you are getting at on the form
Action: Chipaca slows down to have some lunch
<StyXman> I don't know how to do it.
Action: StyXman loves gnoquis.
<Chipaca> gnocchis you mean
<Chipaca> umm
<Chipaca> not sure about the cch
<StyXman> por'ai.
<dneighbo> im thinking if you make product structure the master and product slave you wont need product twice
<Chipaca> whatever, this is delicious
<dneighbo> you can use 'lookup' to get the name of the product from product_structure.product
<StyXman> dneighbo: the problem is: ...
<StyXman> dneighbo: uh?
<dneighbo> and in the list of products you would see the perishable item
<Chipaca> what happens in other situations where we have one table with two masters?
<Chipaca> well, actually, this is one of them. Heh.
<dneighbo> i'm not saying that there is not an issue with forms that might need to be addressed
Action: StyXman weight lookup solution...
<dneighbo> you know the saying
<dneighbo> a man can not serve two masters :)
<StyXman> :))
<Chipaca> you're only saying that because you don't live in Argentina
<StyXman> uh, my problem is not perishable, the problem are the names that should appear at the right.
<StyXman> :)))
<xeroz> Can GNUe client run as standalone and use dbase files on shared folder as backend?
<Chipaca> i.e. the name always shows up in the first textbox
<StyXman> only appears the name of the product related to the row of whip that is being slelcted.
<StyXman> we need the name of *every* qty that appears at the left, as in:
<StyXman> qty 10 name blah
<StyXman> qty 20 name bluh
<StyXman> ...
<StyXman> and so on.
<StyXman> we actually get:
<StyXman> qty 10 name blah
<StyXman> qty 20
<dneighbo> xeroz yes and no
<dneighbo> you would just need to make a driver for dbasefiles
<StyXman> and when I move the 'cursor' to the qty 20, then I get:
<StyXman> qty 10 name bluh
<StyXman> qty 20
<dneighbo> i think someone was toying with using gadfly (or whatever zope's local db is)
<dneighbo> that is because of how you are doing thigns
<dneighbo> make product structure the master
<dneighbo> ditch one of the products
<dneighbo> and turn it into a lookup
<dneighbo> and i think it would fix you problem perhaps
<dneighbo> thoguh i cant look at it live righ tnow
<StyXman> dicht one and turn it into a lookup? I miss the meaning of 'ditch' and don't know about lookups...
<Chipaca> ditch: tirar
<Chipaca> largar, mandar al carajo
<Chipaca> cortar (una novia)
<Chipaca> got it?
<StyXman> eso. skip the spanish lessons.
<dneighbo> leave it, dont use (ditch) :)
<StyXman> *how* do I do lookups?
<dneighbo> um you can do in designer
<dneighbo> i have to go upstairs for a bit i can explain when i get back
<StyXman> uh, I don't like designer yet...
<StyXman> ack.
<dneighbo>  <entry x="2" y="13" field="phone_type" name="ntryPhoneContext"
<dneighbo>              width="20" rows="1" style="dropdown" foreign_key="dtsrcPhoneType.id"
<dneighbo>              foreign_key_description="description"/>
<dneighbo> is an example of a lookup
<dneighbo> its taking the phone_type field and using the phone type table to infer the description
<dneighbo> this woudl be like using your product_structure tables 'product' field
<dneighbo> and using the product datasource to determine the 'name'
<dneighbo> again with out fully understanding the system and what you are wanting to do i hate to make recommendations
<StyXman> dneighbo: the system? you maen gnue?
<dneighbo> but this might be away to work through it until jamest or jcater can look at the actual datasource code
<dneighbo> no i mean the ERP or application you are writing
<dneighbo> must run up stairs to finance will be back
<StyXman> and that would work for just one such fields. sippose we have several... say, not just names, but also price and the likes.
Action: StyXman awaits you just here.
<StyXman> (right here. need to enforce my english.)
<dneighbo> i guess im not seeing why you want single fields a grid and then another grid
<dneighbo> for UI design purposes
<dneighbo> what im saying would make it two grids
<StyXman> wait. I *have* two grids.
<dneighbo> but if you have to look up a ton of stuff i think your schema is wrong
<dneighbo> you have two grids PLUS a non grid
<StyXman> I never thought of lookups.
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<dneighbo> i.e. nothing should be in your product structure table
<dneighbo> that is in your product table
<dneighbo> as that would be wrong :)
<dneighbo> but i assume you made the first thing because you wanted to see the name
<dneighbo> as an integer isnt really descriptive :)
<dneighbo> but a lookup turns that integer into a descriptions
<StyXman> uh? an integer? which one? ah, you mean the id?
<dneighbo> so you form might look like
<dneighbo> Product Name   Qty
<StyXman> my form should say, among another things:
<dneighbo> ------------ ------
[13:30] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
<dneighbo> Product Name  Perishable
<dneighbo> ------------ ------
[13:30] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<StyXman> yes, but with a product name above, the one of the product I'm "building"
<dneighbo> ------------ ------
[13:30] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<dneighbo> where the first one is a list of products
<StyXman> forget perishable, is just a test.
<dneighbo> and the second one is a list of product that make up that product
<StyXman> nono, should be like:
<StyXman> composed_product_name: ---------
<StyXman> composition:
<StyXman> qty     product
<StyXman> ----   ---------
[13:31] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
<StyXman> or the like.
<dneighbo> thats fine
<StyXman> *but* qty caomes from ProductStructure and the names from Product
<StyXman> s/caomes/cames/
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<dneighbo> right
<dneighbo> i still think what i said will work
<dneighbo> ok i see difference
<dneighbo> you can do that easily too
<dneighbo> i just dont get why you are doing the second grid
<dneighbo> and using product twice
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<dneighbo> <StyXman> composed_product_name: ---------
<dneighbo> <StyXman> composition:
<dneighbo> <StyXman> qty     product
<dneighbo> <StyXman> ----   ---------
[13:34] Last message repeated 3 time(s).
<dneighbo> is a no brainer to do
<dneighbo> its the second grid that is causing you problems
<StyXman> because I need it. leave it there. we may find similar cases involving three tables 
<StyXman> *why*?
<dneighbo> seems like bad UI design to me
<dneighbo> but who i am to judge
<dneighbo> submit a bug to forms-support@gnuenterprise.org
<StyXman> later we can discuse abou=t UI design...
<StyXman> a bug! wow...
<dneighbo> explaining the product and some one can look into it
<dneighbo> well personally i dont think its a bug persay
<StyXman> e.g., me. I dinid't know it was a flaw.
<dneighbo> i think the design might not be right and thats why its not supported
<dneighbo> but i dont think persay we should force our design principles on others
<dneighbo> so it probably should be classified as bug and fixed
<dneighbo> i can try to look at it at home in a few days
<StyXman> hmmmm, I don't think you get the problem, but I tell you, this can happen.
<dneighbo> to verify but dont have the time here :(
<dneighbo> StyXman i think i get the problem
<dneighbo> you have two datasources going against the same table
<StyXman> yes
<dneighbo> and forms is probably only managning a SINGLE cursor for that table
<StyXman> *that's* the problem?
<dneighbo> so its getting confused
<StyXman> nononon, it's not a cursor problem.
<dneighbo> i could be wrong but i believe thats what it is
<dneighbo> forms doesnt like having two datasources pointing to same table
<dneighbo> as i believe i ran into a similar problem before
<StyXman> (just a sec)
<StyXman> (I have *three* datatsources)
<dneighbo> correct and two of them point to same table
<dneighbo> i would just submit the bug
<dneighbo> as jason is moving and jamest is well tied up by rabid users somewhere :)
<dneighbo> and i have limited time to test
<dneighbo> as moving files around here is a hassle :(
<dneighbo> the gfd is a good start
<dneighbo> any way you can do a pg_dump on the tables
<dneighbo> and post as well
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<StyXman> you'll stay here a lttle?
<dneighbo> so i can see exact issues
<dneighbo> i can try
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<StyXman> see http://www.grulic.org.ar/!mdione/snapshot1.png
<StyXman> s/!/~/
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<StyXman> that's whst's shown if I have the focus on the 10.0, because that's the name of the product , etc, etc./
<StyXman> see http://www.grulic.org.ar/~mdione/snapshot2.png
<StyXman> that's whst's shown if I have the focus on the 20.0.
<StyXman> see http://www.grulic.org.ar/~mdione/snapshot3.png
<StyXman> that's what we need.
<dneighbo> i only see snapshot3.png
<StyXman> ok, snapshot 1 shows just 'thing #2' and ss2 shows just 'thing #3'
<StyXman> we need *both*
<dneighbo> looks is all yu need
<dneighbo> i only see snapshot3.png
<StyXman> there now.
<StyXman> can you take a look?
<dneighbo> it would be easier if i had table dump
<dneighbo> i still think the right answer is to use a lookup
<StyXman> just a sec.
<dneighbo> though that might have similar issue
<Chipaca> you want a table dump, or a schema dump? or is the zot enough?
<dneighbo> pg_dump
<dneighbo> w/ schema and data woudl be best
<dneighbo> but if just schema that would probably work as well
<Chipaca> please check this http://freesoftware.fsf.org/download/papo/zot/PAPO-ER.zot (it might be enough)
<dneighbo> nope im lazy
<dneighbo> i dont have time to create the table definitions and load iwth data
<Chipaca> damn. me too.
<dneighbo> at least not today
<dneighbo> but you have to already have if you are testing
<dneighbo> just do a pg_dump (assuming you are using postgres)
<Chipaca> did you look at it? it's very much like a description
<Chipaca> *sigh* ok
<dneighbo> i see the tables
<StyXman> see http://www.grulic.org.ar/~mdione/product.sql
<StyXman> see http://www.grulic.org.ar/~mdione/productstructure.sql
<dneighbo> bingo StyXman wins the prize :)
<Chipaca> may I dcc you a .ps ?
<dneighbo> im behind like 10 layers of firewall so web or email are only real options :(
<Chipaca> StyXman: up /home/john/src/cvs/PAPO/zot/out.ps.gz to your web
<Chipaca> please :)
<Chipaca> or would yuo rather a jpeg?
<StyXman> Chipaca: don't make me work more than I already do :)
<StyXman> that's the data I'm using.
<StyXman> you see, 'thing #1' is made of 10 'thing #2's and 20 'thing #3'
<StyXman> that's what I wnad to show.
<StyXman> s/wnad/what/
<StyXman> want, want.
<Chipaca> bbl
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<StyXman> they're abandoning the ship. cowards!
<StyXman> uh, I guess i've been talking to chilliwilly too much :)
<dneighbo> i forgot i dont have postgres on this workstation
<dneighbo> so took me a minute to install
<dneighbo> the defaults changed a bit
<dneighbo> i need to get rid of ident auth so i can test for you :)
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Action: StyXman waits
Action: StyXman waits reading e-mail :)
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/home/dneighbo/downloads/gnue-cvs-2002-05-16/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFDisplayHandler.py", line 717, in __init__
<dneighbo> DB000:     self.trueValues =  ('Y','y','T','t','1','x','X', trueValue)
<dneighbo> DB000: NameError: global name 'trueValue' is not defined
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:~/downloads$ 
<dneighbo> hahaha
<dneighbo> isnt that the error you get?
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes; I changes that line and the following one to 'self.trueValue' and 'self.falseValue'
<dneighbo> i just commented out the boolean on the form and it works for now
<StyXman> so? you get what happens?
<dneighbo> ok yes
<dneighbo> and it makes sense
<StyXman> what do you think?
<dneighbo> you are saying cantidad is master to prodnam
<StyXman> wait. I forgot the names...
<dneighbo> the way master detail works is by focus (cursor)
<StyXman> yes, cantidad is master of sProdName
<dneighbo> so when you have the the result set for product ok
<StyXman> yes, I realiae that... 
<dneighbo> the first thing is thing#1
<StyXman> yeap.
<dneighbo> and its detail is productstructure WHERE id=1
<dneighbo> so you get two rows back for that datasource
<StyXman> aha.
<dneighbo> id 1 and 2 of productstructure
<dneighbo> and yu then say give me a detail of that
<dneighbo> and it does
<StyXman> yes...
<dneighbo> the detail for id 1 is component 2
<dneighbo> not compnent 2 and 3
<dneighbo> if you move down to the 20.0
<StyXman> what I don't want it to do.
<dneighbo> you will notice the compenent name changes :)
<StyXman> yes, I know. 
<StyXman> what I need is
<dneighbo> do you understand why
<dneighbo> i think this is fixiable via lookups though :)
<StyXman> 10     thing #2
<StyXman> 20     thing #3
<dneighbo> give me a second and i will try to fix it for you
<StyXman> ok...
<StyXman> yes, I understand. I understood it when I saw it.
<dneighbo> well why didnt you explain it :)
<StyXman> is not possible to make a select from several tables at the same time?
<Chipaca> there's a problem with boolean
<StyXman> well, actually I always have problems to explain what I think.
Action: Chipaca abstains from commenting
<StyXman> Chipaca: you....
<Chipaca> where is boolean defined? something is wrong; even gnuedtd gets it wrong
<StyXman> Chipaca: try replacing 'trueValue' with 'self.trueVale'.
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<Gilbertyoda> gnuebot: hullo
<StyXman> and the 'same' in the next line...
<Gilbertyoda> What is gnuenterprise about?
<Gilbertyoda> gnuebot: info
<Gilbertyoda> gnuebot: help
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: this is about the gnu enterprise project
<reinhard> see http://www.gnuenterprise.org
<Gilbertyoda> Ahhhh
<Gilbertyoda> nice
<Chipaca> StyXman: that doesn't explain gnuedtd, or does it?
Action: Chipaca checks
<StyXman> Chipaca: I never used it.
<Chipaca> StyXman: you've never validated the gfd you write?
<Gilbertyoda> so reinhard how succesful is it?
<Chipaca> can anyone tell me where the gnue-forms.dtd is generated from? i mean i know it uses gnuedtd, but against what gfd?
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: we'll see, we are still in development
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<Gilbertyoda> Please don't say C or c++
Action: Chipaca says 'C or C++'
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: python
<Gilbertyoda> REALLY?
<reinhard> yes
<Gilbertyoda> you are pulling my leg!
<dneighbo> ok i have it working now
<Gilbertyoda> my right leg ie
<StyXman> Chipaca: no, never. always checked by 'watch and see' :)
<Chipaca> StyXman: that's because you use a lame editor :)
<dneighbo> StyXman where do you want me to put the new workign gfd :)
<dneighbo> web ok?
<StyXman> Chipaca: take you great emacs an put it where it belongs.
Action: Chipaca moans
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, no prob.
<Chipaca> I repeat: "can anyone tell me where the gnue-forms.dtd is generated from? i mean i know it uses gnuedtd, but against what gfd?"
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<StyXman> Chipaca: it was trash, just in case you thought of anything else.
<Gilbertyoda> reinhard:  tell me more or are you busy?
<Chipaca> psu!
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<psu__> Chipaca!
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/table_against_table-test.gfd
<dneighbo> that shoudl do what you were trying to accomplish (or i think it does) :)
<dneighbo> can you please test
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: what do you want to know?
<reinhard> please ask right away
<reinhard> maybe read the faq on the web page first :)
<dneighbo> Chipaca / StyXman also the dropdowns are better for entry in this case as they will only select valid products :)
<Gilbertyoda> surey
<Gilbertyoda> doing that.
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, it works. but I don't think is what we want.
<Gilbertyoda> what do you do for gnuE btw?
<dneighbo> its what you described no?
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: i'm the one responsible for breaking code ;)
<ICJ> *g*
<psu__> reinhard - I thought that was dneighbo?
<Gilbertyoda> but you don't really do stuff in python do you?
<Gilbertyoda> I wish you were though :(
<StyXman> yes, but suppose I want more info, and just info, from the slave products. *we don't like it*. :-|
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: 99.5 % of our code is python
<StyXman> just a sec....
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: the rest of 0.5 % is shell script ;)
<Gilbertyoda> hmmmm url per favore?
<dneighbo> well i would say suggest a patch or write one that just doesnt do dropdowns
<reinhard> url of what?
<dneighbo> for now you coudl do dropdowns and make fields 'readonly'
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - the original App Server was in C
<Gilbertyoda> well how come the python page is not blowing your trumpet par example.
<psu__> the current re-write is in python
<Gilbertyoda> ah okay.
<psu__> the logic is
<dneighbo> but the concept is the same i think you are just hung up on the dropdown box
<dneighbo> am i correct?
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes... we'll weight the solution. :)
<psu__> a) people write appservers in java, which is if anything slower
<dneighbo> if that form i gave you wasnt a dropdown it woudl be acceptable right?
<dneighbo> i.e. its a visual hangup you have
<psu__> b) if we get serious perf issues, we can optimise the key parts of code in C & link them in 
<psu__> as python is a good C wrapper
<psu__> This was what we were going to do with the Forms client
<psu__> but it never proved necessary
<reinhard> well if you hear psu talk you wouldn't think that he hasn't written a single line of code yet, would you?
<reinhard> ;)
<psu__> I think what clinched us on python for the AppServer rewrite
<Gilbertyoda> hehhe.
<reinhard> j/k psu does absolute valuable work for this project :)
<psu__> reinhard: I said the first day I came here IANAP (I am not a programmer)
<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, I guess it would do... just a sec, we're 'deliberating' :)
<Gilbertyoda> so psu__ what are you?
<psu__> I actually wrote a non-hello world python prog the other day
<Gilbertyoda> no WAY!
<reinhard> psu__: what scares me is that you can talk like a professional senior programmer :)
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - general hanger-on & diarist
<Gilbertyoda> diarist?
<Gilbertyoda> Goodness someone got my job already!
<psu__> reinhard: I just repeat what Derek says - works for me ;-)
<reinhard> lol
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/archives.html
<psu__> "Everything you never wanted to know about GNUe, and then some"
<Gilbertyoda> okay if I ever want to do anything in GnuE how much python do i need to know?
<dneighbo> StyXman i would think if you are ADDING components to make a product you would want the name to be a combo box like this to only allow valid selectoins
<Gilbertyoda> ie do I just memorize the python manuals and then announce my prescence?
<dneighbo> but then once selected woudl want other fields like price, etc to be auto populated as read only
<ICJ> reinhard:
<StyXman> dneighbo: wait more...
<dneighbo> which you could do via triggers
<ICJ> you didn't understand my hook stuff, right?
Action: psu__ bought the Boy's Bumper Book of Python Fun for Xmas
<Gilbertyoda> psu__:  there is no SUCH book!
<ICJ> In your whitepaper, events are raised (by whatever)
<ICJ> then automatically appropriately named methods are called
<ICJ> in my proposal
<ICJ> events are also thrown
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - well, there should be
<ICJ> s/thrown/raised
<psu__> As I was saying, I think what clinched us on python for the AppServer
<Gilbertyoda> so psu__ do you ever plan on learning python?
<ICJ> and then the listeners registered for the event are called
<psu__> was that we had AppServer accessing d/b in C
<psu__> and the Forms client accesing d/b using a python library we wrote
<ICJ> basically the same
<psu__> and the Forms client was faster 
<psu__> by a lot
<reinhard> yes ICJ
<ICJ> just a little bit more dynamic
<psu__> i.e. good python better than bad C
<psu__> well, not bad C
<psu__> just sub-optimal C
<ICJ> but I did not have the override mechanism in mind
<reinhard> psu__: lol
<Gilbertyoda> but python is a moving target ...
<Gilbertyoda> which version are you using now?
<ICJ> that another module can define a method for an existing one
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - we are standard on version 2
<ICJ> that's it
<psu__> ISTR some issues with 2.1
<reinhard> ICJ: you think the system described in the whitepaper will do the job well enough?
<psu__> but 2.0 & 2,2 are friendly
<psu__> Main problem is that most of the standard distros(esp Debian) are still stuck on 1.5.3
<reinhard> it is imho easier to understand and to handle than a system where hook methods have to be registered
<reinhard> and if we have the choice between two methods that do the job well enough i choose the one that is easier to understand
<psu__> I will probably end up learning python when it becomes no longer necessary
<reinhard> but i value your opinion very much
<ICJ> why is that easier to understand
<ICJ> ?
<reinhard> i understood it ;)
<ICJ> well, the registration would take place automatically
<psu__> i.e. by the time we have the Designer working with AppServer to allow you to graphically create triggers
<Gilbertyoda> psu but upgrading is not a big problema is it?
<psu__> w/o knowing any python at all
<ICJ> you know
<reinhard> seriously
<ICJ> in the definition (XML) there would be something like
<ICJ> <listener>
<ICJ> no
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - Not really. Biggest problem usually is people have stuff that depends on 1.5.3 as well
<Gilbertyoda> well it is up to python to find a migratory path!
<reinhard> we need the mechanism of one module extending classes of the other module anyway
<psu__> so you have to make sure you get the python 2.x executable to run GNUe not 1.5
<Gilbertyoda> reinhard what can I do? I want to do something.
<ICJ> <listener event="base.currency.PriceChange">
<Gilbertyoda> wait this looks like an XML affair!
<psu__> We actually have a shell script somewhere that tells you what pythons you have and what to do about it ;-)
<Gilbertyoda> I have stackless python and python
<Gilbertyoda> both 2.*
<Chipaca> Gilbertyoda: cvs co gnue; while !(gnue.understood()) { gnue.read() }
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: the best place to start with is download CVS and play with it
<reinhard> then find out what you don't like
<reinhard> and then change it ;)
<reinhard> um :) not ;) as this is serious
<Gilbertyoda> oh :(
<Gilbertyoda> but I don't wanna watch you guys have all the python fun!
<reinhard> lol
<Gilbertyoda> I am in search of a python project atm and this looks like fun.
<ICJ> the Python Tutorial is quite short
<Gilbertyoda> esp because it is not only geek heaven, it is Business heaven!
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: seriously gnue is a _very_ big project and you have to pick your favourite part out of it
<Gilbertyoda> reinhard:  I understand completement.
<Gilbertyoda> okay do I need to know XML?
Action: Gilbertyoda hopes not.
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: i don't know XML and i still pretend to work for this project
<Gilbertyoda> good.
<Gilbertyoda> :D
<StyXman> uh, ok. we think that's right. now, moving to the next issue.
<Gilbertyoda> are there tiny portions of this project that can be demoed to impress some small businesses?
<StyXman> Chipaca: that's C.
<ICJ> reinhard: when will you check in?
<StyXman> it would be:
<reinhard> now
<StyXman> import os
<StyXman> os.system 'cv co gnue'
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - if you know HTML, you know XML 
<Gilbertyoda> No I dun think so.
<Gilbertyoda> XML is one ugly mother
<psu__> After all, IANAP and *I* understand XML, at least enuf to write it
<StyXman> while not gnue.undertood():
<StyXman>   gnue.read ()
<ICJ> but not enough to understand what you've written?
<psu__> Eventually, most of the XML will be auto generated
<psu__> already we have Designer set up to produce the XML for Forms definitions
<Gilbertyoda> so is postgresql playing a part in any of this?
<reinhard> yes it's our prefered db backend
<psu__> and intend to use it for Report Definitions, App Server definitions, Navigator menu definitions... oh, and world peace and harmony between the nations
<psu__> (quick python reference for you there)
<Gilbertyoda> okay I am gonna wake up from my dream now... the clock looks a bit fuzzy and I can't turn off the lights.
<Gilbertyoda> psu__ I concur!
<Gilbertyoda> Python shall bring world peace!
<psu__> we work with shed loads of d/bs free and non-free
<ICJ> reminds me of Günter Grass - Die Rättin
<psu__> SAP-DB is now GPL and hence FSF preferred
<ICJ> the nuclear defence programs "Make peace" and "Peoples' Peace"
<Gilbertyoda> are you kidding psu?
<psu__> but we are a broad church
<psu__> Gilbertyoda - kidding about what? www.sap-db.org
<psu__> SAP have been very helpful making debs and the like
<Gilbertyoda> host not found.
<dneighbo> StyXman should i still be waiting?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: coffee?
<psu__> oops - try w/o the hyphen www.sapdb.org
<dneighbo> Chipaca rofl
<dneighbo> well he told me to wait
<dneighbo> i have email and such 
<Gilbertyoda> Rawk ONNN
<psu__> avoid www.sap.com as it's a pr0n site - cybersquatters
<psu__> or is it the other way around?
<Gilbertyoda> so thats what www.whitehouse.com is also!
<Gilbertyoda> a cybersquatter.
<Gilbertyoda> I thought they were dead.
Action: psu__ hopes Gilbertyoda doesn't find out the hard way
<psu__> pun inintended
<Gilbertyoda> so when are these things gonna be implemented? 
<dneighbo> what things?
<Gilbertyoda> ie when are the companies going to start lining up to hire geeks in droves again?
<dneighbo> um what does that have to do with gnue?
<Gilbertyoda> who is gnue for?
<Gilbertyoda> I thought it was for companies! 
<Gilbertyoda> when is gnue going to be ready enough to start pitching is what I am asking.
<StyXman> Gilbertyoda: everybody! yiu want it? you get it!
<Gilbertyoda> yes indeed, but is the cake ready to eat?
<Gilbertyoda> no that didn't come out quite right.
<Gilbertyoda> Is the cake ready to be eaten?
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: as most free software projects we have no fixed and planned release dates
<dneighbo> it is for companies but what does that have to with high tide economy?
<Gilbertyoda> ah okay.
<reinhard> it will be sooner if we have more people that help
<reinhard> :)
<dneighbo> you can eat the cake today
<Gilbertyoda> dneighbo:  you missed the point or I miscommunicated my point.
<dneighbo> Gilbertyoda : thats possible
<Gilbertyoda> reinhard how much python do I need to know to help?
<dneighbo> none
<StyXman> uh, ac'a hay gente que se come la galletita?
<Gilbertyoda> none?
<dneighbo> si, muy galletita
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<psu> gah
Action: psu hates flakey dial-up
<dneighbo> opposed to 'stable' dial-up
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: you can also help by finding bugs, testing, making proposals on how to improve things, writing documentation...
Action: dneighbo just cant stop laughing
<Gilbertyoda> ah ok. reinhard ... where are you guys getting your experience from?
<Gilbertyoda> There has to be a basis for all of this no?
<reinhard> different
<Gilbertyoda> wait lemme think ... volunteers?
<dneighbo> cu?l es galletita
<reinhard> we have hackers with zero business knowledge as well as non-programmer accountants
<reinhard> that's the good thing actually
<reinhard> the mix of different knowledges
<StyXman> dneighbo: uh? stuck with spanish?
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<reinhard> any _everybody_ so far has been able to contribut something that wasn't there before
<dneighbo> what is galletita?
<StyXman> dneighbo: cookie.
<dneighbo> ah then yes
<dneighbo> si, muy la galletita :)
<Gilbertyoda> okay ...
<StyXman> what== qu'e
<Gilbertyoda> lemme see I study economics and  I can do a little more than hello world in python.
<StyXman> which== cu'al
<dneighbo> like
<dneighbo> que pasa
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<StyXman> (study spanish in... #gnue!)
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: that's a good combination :)
<StyXman> what happens, yes.
<dneighbo> i live in northern mexico
<dneighbo> er arizona :)
<StyXman> h.
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: may i ask where you are from?
<StyXman> :)))
<Gilbertyoda> some place in the sticks of Ohio.
<dneighbo> near toledo?
<Gilbertyoda> hehe.
<Gilbertyoda> :D
<Gilbertyoda> BG
<ariel_> can someone help me with forms?
<dneighbo> i think we are trying to get someone to the conference up there
<dneighbo> ariel_ we can only help people that are ready to be helped :)
<dneighbo> j/k
<Gilbertyoda> you have a conference here? just when I am almost about to move to FL?
<dneighbo> whats up
<Gilbertyoda> dneighbo:  tell me more about the conf.
<dneighbo> Gilbertyoda : there is an open source conference i think in toledo
<Gilbertyoda> toledo is 25 minutes away.
<ICJ> how is the Debian packaging status?
<dneighbo> though it might be canceled due to economy sucking
<dneighbo> ICJ ask ajmitch nickr or jbailey
<reinhard> ICJ: i would guess no release == no debian package :)
<ICJ> oh
<Gilbertyoda> the economy sucketh not. just too many unemployed professionals unwilling to do unskilled work.
<ariel_> did you never made a "number" entry against an "int4" field of a postgres database?
<reinhard> because afaik debian only packages released versions
<ICJ> for Mozilla, there are packages for the trunk ...
<psu>  anyway, time for bed
<ICJ> daily snapshots
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<reinhard> um psu good idea
<reinhard> have to get up early tomorrow
<reinhard> night all
<reinhard> Gilbertyoda: i really hope to see you again :)
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<Gilbertyoda> I think I found my OS project :D
<dneighbo> um i havent tried
<dneighbo> the number vs int4
<dneighbo> probably wont work
<dneighbo> as i think int4 is like 5 but number woudl be 5.0
<dneighbo> or such
<ariel_> that's it 
<dneighbo> if you dont define a type you can enter what you like and then postgres will be ok ifyou put in valid ints
<dneighbo> you just lose 'validation' so to speack
<dneighbo> but you could do that in a trigger
<dneighbo> also there might be types other than number
<ariel_> when you commit you get: pg_atoi:error in 1.0 can't parse .0
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<dneighbo> like type integer, but i havent needed so i havent investicated
<dneighbo> ariel_ yip that would be problematioc
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<Gilbertyoda> btw are there other projects of this sort?
<Gilbertyoda> ie enterprise sort?
<ariel_> workaraund is changing all int4 or similar fields to numeric.
<ariel_> but if i wont to use a large legacy DB?
<dneighbo> ?
<dneighbo> have you tried other types in yoru form?
<dneighbo> i assume now you have <entry type="number" 
<dneighbo> or such
<dneighbo> have you tried type="integer"
<dneighbo> ?
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<ariel_> is integer legal? (not in doc - techref)
<ariel_> i'm trying...
<dneighbo> not sure
<dneighbo> somethings are 'undocumented'
<dneighbo> in designer it lists text, date, number
Action: dneighbo must run again sigh...
<ariel_> i tried, after the login splash, CRASH!
<Gilbertyoda> who is working on the finance package?
<StyXman> finance?
<Gilbertyoda> si si
<Gilbertyoda> I just saw it there!
<StyXman> wow.
<Gilbertyoda> its my first day here and I am all agog.
<Gilbertyoda> :D
<StyXman> another *big* quiestion.
<Gilbertyoda> what is the big question?
<StyXman> dneighbo: do you remember the form?
<StyXman> Gilbertyoda: nevermind. it's related to a long talk before you entered the channel.
<Gilbertyoda> ah neba mind.
Action: ariel_ is away: Sono occupato
<StyXman> ok, for whoever can answer. I have a form. There lies a entry, with, say, 5 rows. can I enlarge or shrink the # of rows, from the form?
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<dneighbo> from the form?
<dneighbo> you mean runtime?
<dneighbo> if you ahve 5 rows you can make it say 10 or 20 or any number at design time
<dneighbo> but at run time you can not
<dneighbo> did that answer your question?
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<dtm> hello all
<btami> hi
<Chipaca> dneighbo: why not?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: let me rephrase that: is there a design decision behind that, or is it just "not at this time"?
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<StyXman> dneighbo: yes, that answers. wtong answer, tho.
<StyXman> Chipaca: keep asking. I gotta go. see you later.
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<dneighbo> "not at this time"
<dneighbo> there are plans to use real grids which would give you some resizing capabilities
<dneighbo> but really i dont see much value in being able to 'add' more rows
<dneighbo> let me retract that, if you resize the form then i see value
<dneighbo> but resizing columns would be nice
<dneighbo> remember gnue is designed to be highly portable to many platforms and be extremely quick to write applications
<dneighbo> which means generally you will lose some of the 'pretty' fluff microsoft has taught you to love
<Chipaca> dneighbo: I was wondering if there was a way to get ctrees, but we thought nah they mustn't have done that because of the html, but then I saw the dhtml (your dcl_dict i think it was), and I said hey! that's how you do it with html! so where are the ctrees?
<dneighbo> some of that will develop over time, but its not highest priority currently
<dneighbo> trees are same principle
<dneighbo> do a tree on a palm pilot, or curses or with a telephone
<dneighbo> we are not opposed to such items, but because they cause other issues they are not super high on the todo list
<dneighbo> but we would be willing to do or support as much as possible others efforts to do such things
<dneighbo> i hope that makes sense to you
<Chipaca> methinks the curses point is rather moot seing as designer picks up its widget lists from wxwindows
<dneighbo> Chipaca: we made a decision that for now designer would be dependent on wx
<dneighbo> but applications should not
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<dneighbo> as we dont see a huge value in having a full fledge IDE for palm or the telephone :)
<dneighbo> we do see value in having applications run there :)
<Chipaca> ok, but if we made the decision that a palm device, or curses, or telephone were out of the question for other reasons, we could hack in ctrees, right?
<sledge_> hi all
<dneighbo> yes thats the point :)
<dneighbo> we plan on putting layers in
<Chipaca> ctrees aren't really trees :)
<dneighbo> so that we can have 'non standard' items
<dneighbo> like a cTree say
<dneighbo> and 'official applications' would not use it
<Chipaca> not unless we came up with a curses way of looking at ctrees
<Chipaca> :)
<dneighbo> and we would disclaim that we cant guarantee that these 'extensions' will be up to date with newest version etc
<dneighbo> but we wouldnt be unfriendly to someone wanting to write an extension
<dneighbo> in fact we woudl like that peopel do that
<dneighbo> you can almost think of it like python modules
<dneighbo> and if a module gets proper support maybe it becomes a part of
<dneighbo> jcater and jamest are best to discuss this with
<dneighbo> to see if cTree and grids are things they wish to include or have as 'external' items and such
<Gilbertyoda> okay, I will be back. this project RAWKS
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<sledge_> dneighbo: is it possible that there are more and more people on irc? :)
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<dneighbo> sure
<sledge_> i hope this is a good sign :)
<dneighbo> wish me luck, i go to present gnue dcl in 5 minutes to the 'big boys'
<sledge_> hey, have fun.
<sledge_> perhaps you can get some funding :)
<dtm> dneighbo: good luck dewd
<Chipaca> dneighbo: focus.
<sledge_> someone of you on the linuxtag trade show?
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<dneighbo> well presentation went really well, but its rather possible we have already lost due to the purchase of support magic
<chillywilly> :(
<dneighbo> well on a good note EVERYONE there seemed to like it
<dneighbo> and most wanted to switch now
<dneighbo> which is highly promising even if we lose
<dneighbo> anyone know how to prevent i.e. from caching files from teh server side?
<chillywilly> yea, that's cool
<dneighbo> i thought there was a header you could send or something
<chillywilly> dude my online banking account blows
<dneighbo> does it charge extra for that?
<chillywilly> no, but I can't set up the bill pay thing
<chillywilly> I emailed them a while ago
<chillywilly> heard nothing
<chillywilly> fuckers
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<ratmice> could we make DevelopersGuide-Forms.lyx some other format? lyx depends on xforms which is non-free
<ajmitch> hehehe, let's revive the docs flamewar! come on chillywilly! ;)
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<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> ih nevermind
<chillywilly> s/ih/oh
<chillywilly> ratmice: I have complained before, but well...it got ugly ;)
<ajmitch> ratmice: if you read in the KCs, this has been brought up before
<ratmice> hmm i do, havent seen that.
<ajmitch> the freedom fighters lost against the evil proprietary-luvin' strongmen ;)
<chillywilly> a while back though
Action: ajmitch ducks away from jcater's sight
<ratmice> it's just like installing lyx once installed some crappy old cygwin1.dll on a boxen before it annoyed me.
Action: chillywilly waits for a TRULY free ly
<chillywilly> x
<chillywilly> one with a Gnome gui or even kde if it has to come to that ;)
<ratmice> anyways most everything but the schema navigator semes to bring up the spiffy login 
<ratmice> i know... connect to
<ratmice> i just cant figure out how to associate shit to entry boxes and such.
<ratmice> probably a combo box in the property editor fields?
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<ratmice> is accessing previously entered data in the scope of usage for the forms client? or will it be just for new data?
<chillywilly> like history?
<ratmice> yeah
<chillywilly> I think that feature has been talked about
<chillywilly> but that's probably as far as it goes
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: ariel_ is back (gone 08:07:14)
--- Wed May 22 2002