[00:14] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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<KobayAshe> what does the gnuebot do?
Action: KobayAshe pokes someone hard.
Action: ajmitch pokes back
<ajmitch> it just logs
<ajmitch> it doesn't sing, doesn't dance, or do tricks
<KobayAshe> hey I have no idea what zope is, does it have anything to do with GNUe?
<ajmitch> zope is a web application framework
<KobayAshe> and GNUe is a ....
<ajmitch> see www.gnuenterprise.org
<ajmitch> it's not primarily web-bsed like Zope, but is an enterprise app development framework :)
<KobayAshe> excellent... what do you do for/with GNUe?
<KobayAshe> NEEDED: GNUe tee-shirts :D
Action: ajmitch is an irc lurker
<KobayAshe> ah you are a groupie too?
<ajmitch> yeah
<KobayAshe> I implemented my first sorting program in python today.
<KobayAshe> And I thought it through :D
<ajmitch> heh
<KobayAshe> I invented it, no referring, no nothing ... 
<KobayAshe> but I think it is known as the binary sorter or something like that. Sucks.
<KobayAshe> slow.
<ajmitch> at least not bubble sort
<KobayAshe> it might have been bubble sort.
<KobayAshe> I haven't given it a name yet.
<KobayAshe> I call it 'sortem.py' for now.
<ajmitch> how simple was it?
<KobayAshe> ummm it had two for loops.
<KobayAshe> and it takes FOREVER
<KobayAshe> but it works .
<ajmitch> sounds like bubble sort :)
<KobayAshe> for j in (len(sorter)):
<KobayAshe>     for i in range(len(sorter)-1):
<KobayAshe>       if sorter[i]>sorter[i+1]:
<KobayAshe>         tmp = sorter[i+1]
<KobayAshe>         sorter[i+1] = sorter[i]
<KobayAshe>         sorter[i] = tmp
<KobayAshe> blam.
<KobayAshe> does that look bubbly?
<KobayAshe> without the first for loop, it only goes through the bloody thing once :(
<ajmitch> yep, it is
<KobayAshe> Are you a programmer?
<ajmitch> i am
<KobayAshe> what kind of programming do you do? And what langauges do you use/know?
<ajmitch> i know C/Java/Python
<ajmitch> and have mainly done apps programming
<KobayAshe> what kind of apps?
<ajmitch> some data entry stuff
<KobayAshe> are there still jobs out there?
<ajmitch> sure
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<ajmitch> depends where you are, i guess
<ajmitch> hey reinhard
<KobayAshe> ummm okay I just got done cvs-uping ...
<KobayAshe> what next?
<KobayAshe> I can't find the 'key'.
<ajmitch> sorry?
<KobayAshe> :D how do you start the whole thing?
<ajmitch> you've run the setup-cvs.py?
<KobayAshe> si
<ajmitch> play around with forms, designer, etc
<ajmitch> forms is gfcvs, designer is gfdes, i think
<ajmitch> or try out reports, appserver
<KobayAshe> ah I need mx.dateTIMe ...
<reinhard> good morning
<KobayAshe> hi Reinhard.
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Action: ajmitch will bbiab
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<ajmitch> hey psu
<psu> hi
<ajmitch> how goes the good fight?
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
<psu> dodgy
<psu> the floppy which I had the only copy of KC30 (yes, I know)
<psu> died on me last night
<ajmitch> oh dear
<psu> with Windows, I would have been completely hosed
<ajmitch> now is when you need to be storing it in CVS
<psu> as it was, a quick cat/dev/fd0 > /root/rescue.txt
<ajmitch> lol
<psu> seems to have gotten 90-99% of it back
<ajmitch> excellent
Action: psu hugs his GNU/Linux
Action: ajmitch hasn't used floppies for years
<ajmitch> how soon until KC30 is out?
<psu> probably by Sat lunchtime UTC
<psu> I had almost finished it 
<ajmitch> cool
<ajmitch> how do you keep up with demand? ;)
Action: ajmitch sees quite a number of reads on linuxtoday.com
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<psu> as far as traffic goes, the kt.zork.net has about half a dozen mirrors IIRC
<psu> and you get silently transferred to one of them 
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> but how do you put up with people like me? ;)
<psu> not sure how many of the linuxtoday.com readers actually click thru'
<psu> I'm sure some just look at Table of Contents & go away
<psu> It's actually been fairly quiet so far this week
<GilbertBSD> I am having trouble with the mx package :(
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: you're on *BSD?
Action: ajmitch generally reads the whole thing
<GilbertBSD> si
<GilbertBSD> freebsd
<ajmitch> poor fella
<ajmitch> what problems are you havin?
<GilbertBSD> it doesn't seem to be invoked.
<GilbertBSD> It is installed.
<GilbertBSD> lemme see something ...
<GilbertBSD> it is simply not 'alive'.
<ajmitch> heh
<psu> bb this eve
<ajmitch> k
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Action: ajmitch would be scared if software was truly living
<GilbertBSD> it is a ghost . in a manner of speaking.
<ajmitch> i do not understand
<GilbertBSD> the package is registered as installed, but it has no contents.
<ajmitch> sounds more like a freebsd packaging issue
<GilbertBSD> it sounds like a Gilbert hack.
<GilbertBSD> I broke it... 
<ajmitch> heh
Action: ajmitch hands GilbertBSD a debian cd ;)
<GilbertBSD> I happen to have a debian CD.
<GilbertBSD> it calls it self 'recovery'
<GilbertBSD> I can do nothing with it.
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<ajmitch> bbl
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<ajmitch> okee
<GilbertBSD> I got designer working :D
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<GilbertBSD> Umm is designer the main part of GNUe?
<ajmitch> i wouldn't call it the main part
<GilbertBSD> it gave me gui for the photo-op :D
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<GilbertBSD> and of course, I am lost. I don't know what to do first.
<ajmitch> hey siesel
<siesel> hey ajmitch
<siesel> do you have any opinions about "list" objects (called collections in java)? what do you think about that iterator interface.
<GilbertBSD> why am i getting this error?
<GilbertBSD> DB000:     initialize, attributes={"_app": app,
<GilbertBSD> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/GParser.py", line 82, in loadXMLObject
<GilbertBSD> DB000:     parser = xml.sax.make_parser()
<GilbertBSD> DB000:   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/xml/sax/__init__.py", line 93, in make_parser
<GilbertBSD> DB000:     raise SAXReaderNotAvailable("No parsers found", None)
<GilbertBSD> DB000: xml.sax._exceptions.SAXReaderNotAvailable: No parsers found
<GilbertBSD> someone wake up or someone.
Action: GilbertBSD pokes each person pointically.
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<gontran> GilbertBSD hey! don't poke so hard
<siesel> hi gontran.
<gontran> heya siesel
<gontran> :)
<GilbertBSD> diesel you weren't asleep!
<gontran> GilbertBSD i saw the traceback you posted, and i believe i might be able to help
<GilbertBSD> thank you very much sir.
<gontran> i had that problem the other day 
<gontran> the problem was that pyexpat.so was not installed in my python installation -- the direct
<gontran> result of /usr/include/expat.h not being available
<GilbertBSD> so I need pyexpat?
<gontran> not exactly
<ajmitch> hello gontran
Action: siesel falls asleep again
<gontran> you just need the expat libs and headers when you compile python 2.2
<ajmitch> siesel: can't really say i have an opinion about them at the moment :)
<gontran> hiya ajmitch
<gontran> in my case, lousy reiserfs ate my expat.h so that the 
<gontran> python compile went fine, just didn't build and install pyexpat.so -- which is needed by the default SAX parser
<GilbertBSD> so how do I get it there gontran?
<gontran> well, i'd look for expat in ports if you don't have expat.h on you fs
<gontran> :)
<GilbertBSD> expat ? are you a bsder too?
<gontran> heh, i dabble a bit.
<gontran> my colo box is running OBSD 2.9
<gontran>  1:05AM  up 275 days,  6:14, 1 user, load averages: 0.08, 0.09, 0.08
Action: gontran needs to fix ntpd on that box
<GilbertBSD> 2seventy freaking 5 days?
<gontran> GilbertBSD i'm really a gentoo fan :)
<gontran> heh
<GilbertBSD> Nooooooooooooooooo
<gontran> that's when i put it at the colo :)
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: what's wrong?
<GilbertBSD> he to the dark side has fallen!
<GilbertBSD> poor gontran
Action: ajmitch is a debian fan
<gontran> thing is i started with slack GilbertBSD :)
<GilbertBSD> but I started with slack too!
<GilbertBSD> Zipslack as a matter of fact.
<gontran> he to the dark side has fallen!
Action: ajmitch started with dragonlinux
<ajmitch> which was a zipslack derivative ;)
<gontran> heh, i think i have something like dragonlinux (jailbait) on this compaq internet appliance
Action: gontran find ./ -name expat in /usr/ports
<gontran> textproc/expat
<gontran> GilbertBSD that's where ::))
<gontran> ************** psu ***************
<siesel> there will be a debian for BSD.
<gontran> maybe we could put that in the faq ? :)
<gontran> ************** /psu ***************
<gontran> so he says in his last breath in consciousness ;)
Action: Yurik is eating ice-cream
<gontran> GilbertBSD hth
<gontran> just dropped in for that, reading
<gontran> logs like a voyeur.
<GilbertBSD> I have expat now
<GilbertBSD> so what next?
<gontran> rebuild python :)
<gontran> later 
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<GilbertBSD> WHAT?
<siesel> l8r
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<corr> okay hyped up wannabe VB mofos
<corr> wtf is GNUe and why should i use it
<corr> 100 words or less. NOW.
<ajmitch> yes, that's a nice way to introduce yourself
<corr> yes it is.
<corr> Mr. *squints* ajmitch
<ajmitch> in short, RTFM, see www.gnuenterprise.org :)
<corr> GNUe is VB.
<corr> is it not?
<corr> its a wannabe VB.
<ajmitch> no, it is not VB
<ajmitch> read the 'What is GNUe' link on the LHS
<corr> GNU Enterprise (GNUe) is a suite of tools and applications for solving the needs of the enterprise. From human resources, accounting, customer relationship management and project management to supply chain or e-commerce, GNUe can handle the needs of any business, large or small. If you are looking for a full-function ERP, GNUe is the package for you.
<corr> its a wannabe VB.
<corr> "e-commerce"
<corr> what kind of buzzword is that
<ajmitch> is there anything else i can help with, or do you just wish to trash something you know nothing about? :)
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<pro_nerd> hola
<ajmitch> hi
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<pro_nerd> que es GNUe?
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<corr> pro, my opening line was "okay hyped up wannabe VB mofos"
<Harald1> hi
<ajmitch> hi Harald1
<pro_nerd> que es GNUe? es un M$ VB clono, si?
<corr> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=24
<GilbertBSD> http://www.cio.com/research/erp/edit/erpbasics.html
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  go to that link above and find out.
<corr> that entire page is buzzword after buzzword
<corr> hyped up marketing crap
<corr> cut to the point
<ajmitch> corr: if you have a problem, leave
<pro_nerd> Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP)
<pro_nerd> A comprehensive, integrated set of business solutions which helps your
<pro_nerd> company gain a competitive edge by integrating all business processes and
<pro_nerd> optimizing the usage of the resources you have available.    -que es?
<corr> ajmitch: no i came here for a reason - i am unable to sift through your hype - please explain it to me.
<corr> i only pseak english and girl.
<corr> not Suit.
<ajmitch> corr: i am not a GNUe developer either
<corr> well gnebot!
Action: corr kicks gnebot
<corr> hey mofo!
<corr> wake da fawk up
<corr> but you surely know what it is?
Nick change: corr -> bfinn
<bfinn> INEED HELP WITH THE QUACK
Nick change: bfinn -> corr
<ajmitch> no kidding
<corr> -NickServ- This nickname may not be used.  Please choose another.
<corr> they banned bfinn!
<corr> that guy is legend!
Nick change: pro_nerd -> ltorvalds
Nick change: ltorvalds -> pro_nerd
<corr> and now
<corr> for your viewing pleasure
<corr> Bfinn invades #gnuenterprise
<corr> I NEED TO HELP FOR TO THE QUACK!!!
<corr> DOES TO SOMEONE HAVE TO IDEA FOR ME???
<ajmitch> yes, stfu
<corr> HE QUACK NOT TO WORK OF WELL FOR TO ME
<corr> I NEED TO FIX OF THIS FOR TO NOW BEFORE TO SISTER GO AWAY FROM NOT HERE!!
<corr> PLEASE TO HELP ME!!!
<corr> ALL FOR I WANT IS THE HELP WITH TO THE QUACK!!
<corr> I RUN TO QUACK AND TO DIE IT
<corr> THE QUACK IS GAME TO PLAY TO KILL OF PEOPLE TO GUN
<corr> PLEASE TO HELP FOR ME
<corr> oh forget it
<corr> its not even fun anymore
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<ajmitch> yay
<pro_nerd> really though, what is the purpose of GNUe, besides to be a VB clone?
<ajmitch> why do you call it a VB clone?
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  go learn a little more about what ERP is .
<GilbertBSD> ajmitch:  because the screen shots have forms in them.
<pro_nerd> It is RAD tool... but there is sooo much gibberish and vagueness on the site, its impossible to understand that, the only comprehensible thing on the site is the screenshots.
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: ah i see
<pro_nerd> Its a RAD tool, correct?
<ajmitch> pro_nerd: that's probably because the site is written for people who would find GNUe useful
<ajmitch> the RAD tools are part of it
<ajmitch> currently the most functional part
<pro_nerd> ajmitch: people that speak in only buzzwords?
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  IT is BUZZWORDS
<GilbertBSD> duh
<ajmitch> a sad fact of life
<GilbertBSD> it is all about the benjamins
<GilbertBSD> INFOtech == Buzz ... no buzz no infotech.
<GilbertBSD> the last big buzz word before CRM was eCommerce.
<GilbertBSD> and before that, there was y2k problem
<GilbertBSD> ;)
<pro_nerd> well, does it support LDAP, any database connectivity? 
<GilbertBSD> sure it does.
<pro_nerd> I see no use for it, that java con't provide.
<GilbertBSD> pro, you can write ANY piece of software in Cobol.
<Harald1> GilbertBSD: why are you discussing with them, they actually only want to argue. Just ignore  them
<ajmitch> it supports about 30 databases currently
Action: GilbertBSD sighs
<pro_nerd> I want to know why any business would pick GNUe over a well made custom java app?
<GilbertBSD> I unfortunately told them about gnuE in an effort to spread the word.
<GilbertBSD> I regret my decision.
<ajmitch> it's hard to tell
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: I'm just trying to understand the project.
<ajmitch> most people are mature enough to take it seriously
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd if you know what peoplesoft, SAP, oracle's erp are ...
<GilbertBSD> this is just a free version of the above thats all!
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: no, because I create my own apps.
<ajmitch> using what, pro_nerd?
<pro_nerd> java of course.
<ajmitch> oh, of course
<GilbertBSD> and the same reason a company would choose GNUe over a java app is the same reason they would have  been using peoplesoft or sap or baan to begin with.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  any program can be written in any number of languages so it is pointless to say 'java can do that too'.
<ajmitch> actually the other functional pieces would be DCL and GNU Bayonne
<GilbertBSD> what you should be wondering about is why infoTech is all about buzz words.
<pro_nerd> well, Its just hard to understand what GNUe does by its site... it is very vague.
<GilbertBSD> good ... vague is good.
<pro_nerd> no, vague is bad.
<GilbertBSD> if you understand ERP, nothing is vague after that.
<GilbertBSD> since you don't know what ERP is, well ;) you have not been initiated!
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP)
<pro_nerd> A comprehensive, integrated set of business solutions which helps your
<pro_nerd> company gain a competitive edge by integrating all business processes and
<pro_nerd> optimizing the usage of the resources you have available.
<pro_nerd> There definition is really vague.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  t hink about it deeply and stop quoting.
<pro_nerd> rather.. their.
<GilbertBSD> Also, the brand names are bloody expensive.
<GilbertBSD> anywhere from $500,000 to $50,000,000.00
<pro_nerd> by that definition, an alarm clock is a piece of ERP.
<GilbertBSD> no its not.
<GilbertBSD> its like saying 'by that definition, a lamp switch is a computer'.
<pro_nerd> it can be integrated into the workplace and is very easy to use, its comprehensive, and it manages an important business resource... time.
<GilbertBSD> :D
<GilbertBSD> Good man.
<pro_nerd> correct?
<GilbertBSD> clocks are no longer being sold to business, Taylors experiments are also over .
<GilbertBSD> They used to be the Buzz words in factories of old.
<ajmitch> now if that alarm clock was integrated into the workplace via something like phpgw or other 'groupware'...
<ajmitch> and all that was tied into the rest of the system...
<pro_nerd> ajmitch: what if... there was a hardware clock sitting in front of the monitor? directly integrated into the workplace.
<ajmitch> how is that integrated?
<GilbertBSD> look you don't need a clock. All that is needed is synchronized watches.
<GilbertBSD> and a time table.
<GilbertBSD> something they already have.
<GilbertBSD> integrated, etc.
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: I was trying to demonstrate the vagueness.
<pro_nerd> but then, I guess you just call being vague, being dynamic.
<GilbertBSD> me?
<GilbertBSD> I have never called you dynamic.
<pro_nerd> not neccessarily you.
<pro_nerd> but, the people that embrace erp.
<GilbertBSD> who is 'you' then?
<GilbertBSD> ah si... pro_nerd man, it is all about the benjamins.
<pro_nerd> erp is more of an idea then, like OOP.
<GilbertBSD> ummm not really but that is allowable.
<GilbertBSD> pro it is a simple attempt to make sure that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing, and vice versa.
<GilbertBSD> scratch simple... a process rube Goldberg would approve of completely.
<pro_nerd> its an idea though, not a technology.
<pro_nerd> just like oop.
<GilbertBSD> what is the difference kind sir?
<GilbertBSD> or how are they even related?
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: are there any specifications, requirements for a ERP app? Any special interfaces that it requires? can any app become an ERP app?
<pro_nerd> actually, I should correct myself, I mean OO, not oop.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  an ERP module
<GilbertBSD> ERP itself has a core, upon which modules are 'contributed' so to speak.
Action: ajmitch wonders if pro_nerd read right thru that URI that GilbertBSD pasted
<pro_nerd> URL? didn't see one.
<GilbertBSD> http://www.cio.com/research/erp/edit/erpbasics.html
<GilbertBSD> re
<GilbertBSD> that is the 3rd posting.
<GilbertBSD> pro, GNUe can save companies millions of dollars.
<GilbertBSD> it has all the advantages of GNU ... it is the Penguin (or RMS) in a Business Suit.
<pro_nerd> ok, so an erp app is an all in one business solution.
<pro_nerd> I guess I just don't see why ERP should be used instead of LDAP/JNDI w/ C/C++/JAVA and a RDBMS
<GilbertBSD> ummm no.
<pro_nerd> " It attempts to integrate all departments and functions across a company onto a single computer system that can serve all those different departments' particular needs."
<GilbertBSD> ERP is not a language, an ERP system is written in a given programming language.
<GilbertBSD> and it depends quite heavily on a database.
<GilbertBSD> postgres, sap-db, oracle, etc.
<pro_nerd> I understand that. hence. ERP is an idea.
<GilbertBSD> is Accounting an Idea?
<pro_nerd> yup
<GilbertBSD> really?
<pro_nerd> yup
<GilbertBSD> if you say so.
<pro_nerd> a business would have an implementation of that idea though.
<GilbertBSD> EVERYTHING is an IDEA!
<pro_nerd> no... not everything is an idea. Is C an idea?
<GilbertBSD> is GNUe an Idea?
<GilbertBSD> C was an idea.
<GilbertBSD> now it is a mess.
<GilbertBSD> poor thing.
<pro_nerd> GNUe is an ERP development tool.
<pro_nerd> correct? It allows a business to implement their own ERP system based on their own needs.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd, GNUe == peoplesoft == baan == sap/r3
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  they implement a core, 
<GilbertBSD> and then they add whatever modules they want.
<GilbertBSD> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/docs/GNUEnterprise/c31.html#AEN96
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<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: I'm having trouble seeing how a business can spend $15million on an ERP tool.. it would be much cheaper to write your own tools in-house.... 1-3 months w/ a 10 person team.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  no it won't.
<GilbertBSD> if it were, they would have done that a looong time ago.
<GilbertBSD> ERP is fairly new mind you.
<GilbertBSD> and not just the tool, the implementation of the ERP system as well.
<pro_nerd> well, it makes no sense to me.
<ajmitch> and most ERP systems take a lot longer than 1-3 months
<GilbertBSD> sure it doesn't.
<ajmitch> perhaps for quite a small business
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  MS uses 34000 + programmers, and it still doesn't get anything done in 3 mths ;)
<pro_nerd> one day to draft the system, an 2 hours max to setup the database and create all the tables.
<GilbertBSD> right... 
<pro_nerd> then a few weeks to work on the implementation.
<GilbertBSD> The CEO might as well administer his own database.
<GilbertBSD> the secretary can handle any development ...
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: well, its hard to program with a finger up your nose while playing quake3
<GilbertBSD> hmmm they cut costs already!
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<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: a decent team of developers could hack one out pretty quick.
<GilbertBSD> sure ... with GNUe .
<ajmitch> pro_nerd: go ahead then
<pro_nerd> ajmitch: I already am.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  first of all ''decent developers" are pretty hard to come by.
<GilbertBSD> they cost a lot of $$$
<GilbertBSD> and they are one of the reasons ERP systems are so expensive.
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: not right now... there is a suprlus of techies out there, and I'm sure there are plenty of good coders.
Action: ajmitch wonders what sort of system is going to get designed in 1 day, and have the db setup in 2 hours
<corr> you should all be using .NET
<GilbertBSD> are there really?
<GilbertBSD> how many are that good?
<GilbertBSD> How many of them are like corr! full of talk and no action what so ever?
<ajmitch> now .NET is vague...
<pro_nerd> You can draft quite a bit of stuff out in one day. Especially if somebody already told you what the system needs to do, or exactly how the business operates, if you know all the details, its simple.
<GilbertBSD> sure it is pro_nerd.
<corr> GilbertBSD: shut the hell up you hyped up motherfucker
<corr> you dont know me
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<corr> so dont insult me
<GilbertBSD> hey a company that uses ERP is amazon.com
<GilbertBSD> and dell as well.
<pro_nerd> they both use AIR too. heh
<GilbertBSD> AIR?
<GilbertBSD> what would that be?
<corr> man fuck you
<corr> i hope you die
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<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: google.com air.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd that is very vague.
<GilbertBSD> too many links.
<pro_nerd> Air... a combination of oxygen, nitrogen, and other elements.
<pro_nerd> what you breathe.
<GilbertBSD> ah I thought you meant 'air guitar' 
<GilbertBSD> or air jordan
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  a very important component of life.
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<GilbertBSD> w/o which you certainly would stop typing.
<corr> fuck you GilbertBSD
<corr> fuck you
<corr> all talk?
<pro_nerd> maybe I should market air... "many large businesses employ air, it is a neccessary tool for all large businesses"
<corr> you're all talk
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd yes you can market air.
<GilbertBSD> Especially to those large businesses with central AC
<corr> you're the one who constantly tries to force your bullshit on everyone else and then refuses to justify it
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: how big of a business do you use GNUe at?
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  try Ford inc.
<pro_nerd> you've gotten them to switch to GNUe? completely? they use it on all systems?
<GilbertBSD> huh? I thought you were wondering about the kinds that can use it.
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: no. how do YOU use it.
<GilbertBSD> I run it on my computer
<GilbertBSD> in an attempt to learn it and contribute to it.
<pro_nerd> how big of a business do you use with it?
<GilbertBSD> did you read my last post?
<corr> no bitch
<corr> say it again
<corr> bitch
<pro_nerd> how hard would it be to write a custom application that would fill the requirements for your business?
<GilbertBSD> look before GNUe, to use or get close enough to an ERP system, you had to be working for a company that had it implemented.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd you can write as many custom apps as you want.
<pro_nerd> soo... you don't even use GNUe w/ a business?
<GilbertBSD> but there are costs involved in simply writing hacks to solve problems and not standardising the whole process.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  :D I do know wtf ERP is ;)
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: ever heard of EJB's? or even just normal java beans?
<GilbertBSD> EJB, Enterprise Java Beans ...
<GilbertBSD> superb ideas... 
<GilbertBSD> Go ahead and use it as you please.
<pro_nerd> yeah, those are standardized.
<GilbertBSD> sure sure, but I can't run it on BSD.
<GilbertBSD> so whats so great about that?
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: wtf? www.sun.com get the JDK, they work just fine on BSD.
<GilbertBSD> oh?
<GilbertBSD> BSD and java have quite a history.
<pro_nerd> I'd just about swear by it.
<corr> you bastard guy
<pro_nerd> and anyways... linux is better.
<GilbertBSD> whereas every one else is off on java 10, bsd java is always lagging.
<GilbertBSD> http://www.gnu.org/projects/gnue/faq.html#GNUe-FAQ-2.12
<GilbertBSD> there happens to be a javalike version you can contribute to if you want.
<corr> http://www.goatse.cx
<GilbertBSD> lets not get too hasty with the 'linux is better' thing. We all know BSD is the OS linux wants to be when it Grows up.
<corr> enough of your FUD hype boy
<corr> yes, you.
<corr> i'm talkin ta you, partner
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: a good read, that article
<GilbertBSD> :D ...
<corr> look
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<corr> the fact of the matter is GNUe is *dying*
<ajmitch> wb esands
<GilbertBSD> hmmm interesting. Cutting and pasting in links is not possible?
<corr> hmmm interesting.
<GilbertBSD> btw pro where art though?
<GilbertBSD> you didn't fall asleep did you?
<GilbertBSD> F_ck I can see daylight :(
<esands> wb?
<ajmitch> welcome back :)
<esands> right
<ajmitch> having a good evening, esands?
<esands> building a XP1800+. 8)  80Gb HDD Seagate B-IV. Nice case.
<ajmitch> lovely
Action: esands likes this sort of stuff. 8)
<ajmitch> esands: so what were you interested in GNUe for?
Action: ajmitch cannae remember
<esands> Not for me though, for my brother.  His new desktop
<ajmitch> a pity
<esands> I don't think I ever mentioned it
<corr> GNUe Creating the Digital Future
<corr> WHA DUH FUCK?
<corr> that is bullshit if i ever saw it
<esands> Means though I get another (his old machine, P3-550) for my dev lab.
<ajmitch> nice
<esands> If you look in the mailing list archive, you'll see I posted a few times will gnue first started.  So I've been a lurker for a while. ;)
<ajmitch> fastest box i have here is a k6/2-400 :)
<ajmitch> wow, that must be awhile :)
<esands> heh
<ajmitch> decided to come back & lurk on irc for a bit? :)
<esands> Involved in running the family business here in NZ.  So I do the tech stuff (4 branches, computer spread all over) plus I'm the finanical controller. 
<ajmitch> cool fun, what's the biz?
<esands> We run an accounting system on linux at the moment (www.fastbase.co.nz)
<ajmitch> ok
<esands> Its pretty good, but I'm always interested in something that I can do RAD for particular business processes
<esands> Thus the current interest in gnue.  Maybe in the future I might move the business over to running on it.
<esands> Or one of our businesses
<ajmitch> so you use fastbase currently, or that's the family business? :)
<GilbertBSD> how large is your business esands?
<pro_nerd> I thought GNUe wasn't about RAD?
<esands> 13 people employees, 3 family members working closely.
Action: GilbertBSD rolls his eyes.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd when you get the chance/$$$ don't use gnue. use oracle.
<esands> er, 13 employees, ....
<GilbertBSD> it is all javaey and all.
<pro_nerd> I use my own custom apps.
<GilbertBSD> and who maintains them after you have been hit by a bus?
<GilbertBSD> don't say anything about documentation because that is BS.
<esands> I have my own consultancy thoug, plus a few other small marketing companies
<pro_nerd> Well, since they are for my use, and my businesses use, nobody, since without me, the business would go under.
<GilbertBSD> esands: is business that good in NZ?
<ajmitch> esands: sounds good, you're based in auckland aren't you?
<esands> Business is business
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  what kind of business is it btw?
<esands> Always a matter of hard work.
<GilbertBSD> esands:  me thinks not...
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: Web/software dev/Technology consulting. Basically, whatever needs to be done.
<esands> NZ is a small market, without much room for mistakes
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  you do not really need GNUe then.
<GilbertBSD> the business is small enough to be understandable by a few people.
<pro_nerd> And when I get bored w/ that, and want some exercise, I've got a small landscaping business.
<ajmitch> most businesses in NZ are small
<GilbertBSD> but if you are into software dev how come you were asking all those questions about ERP?
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: correct, but the businesses I work for need custom apps.. but even for them, GNUe wouldn't fit the bill.
<GilbertBSD> had you not heard of baan (RIP) or sap ?
<esands> 80% of businesses in NZ employ less than 5 people
<ajmitch> yes, that's the stats i was trying to recall :)
<GilbertBSD> pro Eg?
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: no, because I'd yet to encounter them.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  how come I knew about them then ;)
<GilbertBSD> and I am not a computer person at all :O
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: can you create custom graphical objects? Dynamically build the "forms" ?
<GilbertBSD> sure why not?
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD:  you probably experienced them.
<GilbertBSD> yes sap/r3 finance and baan.
<GilbertBSD> baan IV
<GilbertBSD> baan is dead though, the greedy cobolites helped kill it.
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: and you have full control of how each "control" or "widget" is drawn? etc? I don't see how that can be done if it uses multiple graphical libraries... GTK/QT/etc.
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd ... you can do whatever you please.
<pro_nerd> It takes a matter of minutes in netbeans.
<GilbertBSD> Try the bloody thing first.
<pro_nerd> I can only apt-get the server and the common stuff.
<GilbertBSD> it is free, and I bet you have a large hard drive.
<GilbertBSD> cvs ...
Nick change: corr -> corr|sleep
<pro_nerd> until it is proven stable enough to be apt-gotten, I'll stay away from it.
<GilbertBSD> *shrugs* that is what the detractors of linux 0.0 said by the way...
<GilbertBSD> same attitude.
<ajmitch> [ajmitch @ ajmitch pnet-0.3.6] apt-cache search gnue
<ajmitch> gnue-common - The shared library for many items of the GNU Enterprise Framework
<ajmitch> gnue-designer - A Rapid Application Development tool for GNU Enterprise.
<ajmitch> gnue-forms - An XML-based forms painter
<ajmitch> hmm....
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: its almost 3am... and I'm on dialup, Ir really don't feel like cvs'ing a bunch of stuff
<ajmitch> well leave it for another day
<GilbertBSD> pro it took 1 hr to get it.
<GilbertBSD> I am on dial up too. 33.6k.
<pro_nerd> hmm. I only have gnue-common and some other non-gnue stuff when I apt-cache saerch it.
<esands> dsl is all good, even if it is only 128kbit
<pro_nerd> only if its available in your area...
<ajmitch> hehe, certainly is, esands
<esands> there is that
<GilbertBSD> guys dial-up is a tried and true method as well!
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: i know, i was on dialup until a month or so ago
<ajmitch> 33.6k
<GilbertBSD> I shall remain on dial up... 
<GilbertBSD> the larger the bandwidth, the larger the harddrive has  to be 
Action: esands remebers being on JANET.  100Mb to the bedroom.  Damn that was fun
<ajmitch> esands: where was that?
<esands> In the UK
<esands> JANET is the academic network
<ajmitch> ah, you're from the UK? interesting
<esands> Nope, studied there for a while
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<ajmitch> ok, my bad then :)
<pro_nerd> well, I'm getting tired of this. I'll check it out tomorrow... and if its better than its website, maybe it'll have a chance.
<ajmitch> hey reinhard
<esands> Also went to Canterbury University
<ajmitch> ok
<reinhard> hi
<pro_nerd> later GilbertBSD
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd, you dont' have to use it.
<ajmitch> i'm currently at Otago Uni
<ajmitch> bye pro_nerd
<esands> I figured
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: after all this debating, I'm at least going to give it a shot.
<GilbertBSD> but before you poo poo it, use it.
<GilbertBSD> :)
<GilbertBSD> and after you poo poo it, contribute 
<pro_nerd> I've got make sure I don't like it before I really trash it :)
<GilbertBSD> it is all open source.
<pro_nerd> hehe. j/k.
<esands> Used to go down to dunedin period many years ago- easy hitching
<ajmitch> heh, it would be
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: my little project, actually seems similar to an ERP app.
<ajmitch> there'll probably be a few people hitching to chch for the super12 final...
<pro_nerd> although, I designed it before I even heard of ERP.
<esands> If they can get any tickets. 
<ajmitch> yeah
<esands> That ticket situation sounds rather crazy
<ajmitch> doesn't worry me too much
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: Its a modular piece of business software that will be like Outlook on crack to start with... with full team management, and user administration type of stuff.
<ajmitch> Outlook is on crack
Nick change: pro_nerd -> bigger_nob_sac
Nick change: bigger_nob_sac -> pro_nerd
<GilbertBSD> pro_nerd:  do book mark and read http://www.cio.com/research/erp/edit/erpbasics.html
<ajmitch> so just some groupware & project management tools then?
<GilbertBSD> w/o ERP, there is no gnue
<pro_nerd> GilbertBSD: yeah... I'll see what my project amounts to... I'm pretty biased.
<pro_nerd> later all.
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<ajmitch> biased? him? nah....
<GilbertBSD> hahahahaha
<ajmitch> he must be a legendary coder/designer to implement an ERP system in one day & get the DB up in 2 hours :)
<GilbertBSD> blah.
<ajmitch> sorry, design in a day
<GilbertBSD> Vaporware is an important aspect of program design.
<ajmitch> hehe
<esands> heh
<esands> Classic 
<ajmitch> i see our good buddy corr is still in the channel
<GilbertBSD> Corr should be sleeping.
<ajmitch> yes, he seems to get grumpy if he doesn't sleep
<GilbertBSD> hehehe.
<ajmitch> you did a good defense of ERP & GNUe, GilbertBSD :)
<GilbertBSD> :D it is a good project.
<ajmitch> psu will have a bit of trash to wade thru now :)
<GilbertBSD> hehe.
<ajmitch> you got the mx package installed ok, btw?
<esands> seems to be getting somewhere now.  Unlike alot of the other OSS/FS ERP projects
<GilbertBSD> yes I did.
<GilbertBSD> it works well.
<ajmitch> cool
<ajmitch> how do you like forms & designer?
<GilbertBSD> it was under site-packagesold
<ajmitch> there are a few sample forms to play with
<ajmitch> and apparantly reports is shaping up nicely
<GilbertBSD> I have seen designer, but I am still re-compiling python.
<GilbertBSD> I was a little busy before then .
<GilbertBSD> :D
<reinhard> omg
Action: reinhard has read the logs
<ajmitch> hehehe
Action: reinhard is so happy he missed _that_ discussion
<ajmitch> reinhard: did you miss the good bits?
<ajmitch> or read the logs from the bot?
<esands> Designer doesn't work with reports yet, right?
<ajmitch> esands: dunno yet :)
<ajmitch> i should find out how one uses multiple orms, reports, etc in an app that does something
<reinhard> ajmitch: read from the bot
<GilbertBSD> ah voila.
<GilbertBSD> gfclient works now.
<ajmitch> i'm guessing that one would not use gfclient directly, but would instead call it's functionality from an app?
<GilbertBSD> ajmitch:  I cvsed gnuE a few hours back and am now testing it to see what works and what doesn't so I really dun know.
<ajmitch> GilbertBSD: yeah, i wasn't expecting you to know much in detail :)
<GilbertBSD> it looks pretty good thus far.
<esands> Problem I'm finding is that the documentation is either lacking or all over the place.  Makes it tricky to pick up and run with.  Still better than rapid development occurs at this stage
<GilbertBSD> documentation?
<esands> Although, at the moment I'm not sure quite what I can do with forms/reports. Thus I can't really get my head around how to (high level) 'design' a test application to gain some gnue experience and thus figure out suggestions from the developer-user pov to contrib back
<GilbertBSD> I think GNUe so far is currently in the 'for hackers only' stage of development.
<ajmitch> mainly it's all over the place
<ajmitch> esands: yes, that's the sort of question i was meaning
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<GilbertBSD> hey baan is dead no? why not just gather a number of baan manuals and see how things flow?
<GilbertBSD> it should be pretty cheap.
<ajmitch> it's silly since i've been in this channel long enough, i just haven't picked up on things ;)
<ajmitch> for now i'm going to attempt to help reinhard, siesel, and co. on appserver
<GilbertBSD> appserver?
<ajmitch> yup
<GilbertBSD> isn't that what mx does?
<ajmitch> um, exsqueeze me?
<ajmitch> not as far as i know
<GilbertBSD> ah see.
<ajmitch> there's some docs in the appserver/docs dir
<ajmitch> or the previous implementation, geas
<GilbertBSD> who is the resident business process analyst?
<ajmitch> currently awake? uhmm....
<GilbertBSD> either/or
<ajmitch> i'd say there'd be ones like neilt, or maybe psu
<ajmitch> certinaly there are others, i just can't think :)
<GilbertBSD> psu said he was the groupie/diarist 
<ajmitch> i'm more just a groupie
<ajmitch> derek would be one to ask
<ajmitch> he's the GNUe masta
<GilbertBSD> you are not psu are you?
<ajmitch> do i look like psu?
<GilbertBSD> I can see text ...
<GilbertBSD> text is pretty neutral.
<GilbertBSD> <GilbertBSD> psu said he was the groupie/diarist 
<GilbertBSD> <ajmitch> i'm more just a groupie
<ajmitch> apart from the fact that psu is about on the other side of the world to me :)
<GilbertBSD> I was referring to psu ...
<ajmitch> yes, i know
<ajmitch> and i added to it saying that i'm just a groupie :)
<GilbertBSD> oh.
<GilbertBSD> I thought you thought i meant you.
<ajmitch> i'd be worried if i were psu
<GilbertBSD> why?
<ajmitch> since you were in here when i was talking to him earlier :)
<GilbertBSD> indeed.
<GilbertBSD> hahahaha
<ajmitch> that'd be creepy strange like me talking to myself :)
<GilbertBSD> I do it all the time.
<GilbertBSD> I tell myself how strong I am all the time.
<GilbertBSD> oh, and how the chix dig me. 
<ajmitch> using 2 nicks on a public irc channel?
<GilbertBSD> I tell myself that.
<GilbertBSD> nope.
<ajmitch> i wish i could tell myself that
<GilbertBSD> go ahead. it will make you feel better about your geekiness.
Action: ajmitch sighs & gets depressed
<GilbertBSD> c'mon you don't need prozac.
Action: ajmitch gets out the needle
<GilbertBSD> python will cheer you up.
<ajmitch> mmm
<ajmitch> yay, package build finished
<GilbertBSD> there you go.
Action: ajmitch installs updated pnet deb
<GilbertBSD> time to sleep.
<ajmitch> night
<GilbertBSD> I have stayed up all night again :(
<ajmitch> hehe
<GilbertBSD> ciao.
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<reinhard> uups
<reinhard> funny mail
<reinhard> "Is the GNUe project actively being worked on?  I looked at the
<reinhard> IRC logs and it really looked like a joke.
<reinhard> "
Action: pattieja is back (gone 24:24:30)
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<Yurik> jcater: hi
<jcater> hi
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<Chipaca> hi all
<Chipaca> curse this thing, i turned off autoaway
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<solibre> Hi ! Is it the right place to get some help to install a GNUe tool (GNUe-Report)?
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<Chipaca> solibre: it's a bit too early :)
<solibre> Well, I'll wait a while (depends on how much I'm too early :-)
<dtm> reinhard: heheheh
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<dtm> reinhard: what a ridiculous question  :)
<dtm> reinhard: "however, i absolutely refuse to download code or read docs.  i consider irc logs to be authoritative representation of software I may commit my enterprise to.  KTHXBYE ^_^"
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<sledge_> hey ho
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<sledge_> hi
<GilbertBSD> oy
<sledge_> t'es francais? :)
<GilbertBSD> Non.
<GilbertBSD> Anglais
<sledge_> hm, "dacor.net" sounds like a french pun :)
<GilbertBSD> dacor.
<GilbertBSD> Dan Angley Corporation.net
<sledge_> that company will have no problem advertising in france :)
<GilbertBSD> haha.
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<solibre> Hi
[12:46] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<solibre> Is it possible to get some help about GNUe-Report ?
<sledge_> i assume the right people are here
<solibre> Problem is with prerequisite package pysablot
<sledge_> what's the prob?
<solibre> seems sourceforge pysablot targz files are not valid archives
<solibre> so I can't install Report
<sledge_> strange, i will check that
<solibre> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pysablot/
<sledge_> have it
<sledge_> did you use the source tar.gz or the binary version?
<solibre> I tried both
<sledge_> can you use the "file" command on that two files?
<solibre> what do you mean
<sledge_> on a console: "file xyz.tar.gz"
<sledge_> it returns the file type
<sledge_> p.ex. "GNU tar archive" or "HTML file"
<solibre> [solibre@p350 solibre]$ file PySablot-0.1.tar.gz
<solibre> PySablot-0.1.tar.gz: HTML document text
<sledge_> hell
<sledge_> i noticed that
<sledge_> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/pysablot/PySablot-0.1.tar.gz
<sledge_> is *not* the tar.gz file.
<sledge_> it is solely a list of mirrors that have the file
<solibre> [solibre@p350 solibre]$ file PySablot-0.1.linux-i586.tar.gz
<solibre> PySablot-0.1.linux-i586.tar.gz: HTML document text
<sledge_> http://telia.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pysablot/PySablot-0.1.tar.gz is the real pysablot package ...
<sledge_> let me guess: you have right-clicked on the file and saved it to disk?
<solibre> yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssss :-))
<sledge_> the sourceforge user interface has been designed by a three-year-old child.
<solibre> the pros and con of GUI :-)
<sledge_> when i have a link to a tar.gz file, then i expect to retrieve a tar.gz file and not a list of mirrors.
<sledge_> :)
<solibre> I often use sourceforge, and it's the first time I experience thing like this
<solibre> then I go on installing, thanks
<sledge_> have fun
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<sledge_> hi Harald :)
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<Harald1> hi sledge_
<sledge_> jcater?
<sledge_> [core team member]?
<sledge_> okay, i'll file a bug report, hehe :)
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<sledge_> hi xeroz, aprono
<xeroz> hi
<xeroz> if I make forms with designer, must I also change database structure manually? How structure changes can be done in practise?
<sledge_> no, you don't have to change the structure of your database
<sledge_> if you want to change your database structure, you can't use designer for that task
<sledge_> (yet :)
<xeroz> ok, so I just desing database structure, and then make sql queries etc with designer?
<sledge_> yes
<xeroz> how large applications have been made with gnuenterprise?
<sledge_> i don't know whether designer supports direct sql statements, i haven't used that yet
<sledge_> currently, we are all waiting for the application server, which sits between the forms and the database
<xeroz> what kind of applications you have made with currect GNUe?
<aprono> hi, sledge_
<sledge_> when it is usable, we can write big applications on top of the gnu enterprise tools
<sledge_> but you can use current gnue as a ms access replacement very well
<sledge_> there are some in-house applications written by some core team people
<sledge_> but i don't know what kind of applications exactly
<xeroz> how is reporting made currently? is it just text or do you use external tools for that purpose?
<sledge_> gnue reports makes heavy use of sablotron, which is an xsl transformation processor. it processes xml->text and xml->xml
<sledge_> thus, you have to install PySablot (the python binding for sablotron) to make Reports work.
<xeroz> I'm interested because I have developed quite large app with ms access
<sledge_> ah
<sledge_> i have done that in the past and it drived me crazy :)
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<sledge_> gnue is already a good replacement for access, to a certain extent
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<xeroz> I have sql queries that are based of other queries and some queries are made witb vb, saved and run based on user selections
<xeroz> and then there is vb code in queries, forms, modules all around :)
<sledge_> uuh :)
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<sledge_> hi btami
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<sledge_> xeroz: what's the task of your application?
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<xeroz> currently it's just file-based .mdb backend. there are other firm's apps made with foxpro etc, and becouse all pc:s don't have ip address I don't know is client-server tcp-ip app possible
<btami> hi all
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<sledge_> hm, a network without tcp/ip is problematic, as gnue relies on that
<xeroz> customer feedback summaries, quality control, fitness test results comparing
<sledge_> these tasks will hopefully be covered by the gnue packages
<sledge_> hi psu_
<xeroz> what tool is used usually to make graps with GNUe?
<sledge_> graps?
<xeroz> graphs :)
<sledge_> ah :)
<sledge_> i suppose they should be created by Reports, but i'm not sure.
<sledge_> as a workaround, you can write raw text data with reports and make graphs with gnuplot, starcalc, excel or something like that
<psu_> hi sledge_ we both have our "tails" on tonite
<sledge_> tails? cow tails?
<xeroz> are all GNUe tools made with python / wxPython?
<psu_> sledge - if the reports module is on the same box as the MDB, you could use TCP/IP to talk to yourself ;-)
<sledge_> xeroz: yes
<psu_> sledge_ - I mean our nick_ tails_
<sledge_> it's a really fine language
<sledge_> psu_: i always wear a tail. it's sexy. *g*
Action: sledge_ smokes a cigarette and hopes that jcater doesn't see it :)
<xeroz> sledge: got a webcam? ;)
<psu_> sledge - you're European and cool, you're allowed to smoke if you want to
<psu_> same goes for Yurik
<sledge_> xeroz: nope, but i have some ugly photos of me on the web, that's tough enough :)
<reinhard> brb
<sledge_> psu_: oh, thanks for the compliment
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<btami> i hate cigarette, but i don't mind virtually :)
<sledge_> btami: =====~   <- here, have a virtual cigarette
<btami> thanks
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<sledge_> hi alexey_ 
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<sledge_> hi reinhard
<reinhard> hello sledge_
<xeroz> is traffic between GNUe client and server crypted in any way or is there option for that?
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<Chipaca> xeroz: gnue is crypted at the source level :)
<xeroz> buahaha, cool :)
<btami> by jcater :)
<Chipaca> today's bach-jcater day?
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Action: Chipaca didn't notice the strings with balloons
<psu_> hey, nobody ever got cancer off a virtual cigarette
<StyXman> me, I have virtual colon and pancreas cancer.
<StyXman> not from a virtual cigarrete, tho.
<StyXman> it was a endless virtual bagna cauda.
<dtm> StyXman: our deepest condolences to you
<dtm> StyXman: so are you fixin' ta die from it, and stuff?
Action: Chipaca wants his monitor
<StyXman> yes. good thing of virtual deseases is that you can hack it down :)
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<StyXman> ok, I'll add you to my testament, just in case. anybody else?
<Chipaca> StyXman: that's a will, not a testament
<GilbertBSD> how are business analysis to be handled?
<GilbertBSD> is there a standard way?
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: what is 'business analysis'?
<GilbertBSD> before you can implement GNUe, you have to do that.
<GilbertBSD> it is the 'algorithm/planning' stage of it all.
<xeroz> Is the xml made with GNUe designer stored in db or files at server?
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: sort of like process reengineering?
<sledge_> XML made by Designer is stored in files, but there will be facilities to let it reside on the server as well
<GilbertBSD> Chipaca:  si.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: I see no negation
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: oh, sorry, no, you weren't french :)
<Chipaca> who was the french guy?
<GilbertBSD> Heh.
<GilbertBSD> Chipaca:  Closeau?
<GilbertBSD> Inspector Closeau?
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: Miterrand
<GilbertBSD> Hmm, don't know Miterrand. Must be a cartoon character or something.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: i meant mitterand
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<Chipaca> Francois Maurice Marie Mitterand
<GilbertBSD> She was a she?
<sledge_> former president iirc
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: no, she was a he.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: do 'dict mitterand'
<GilbertBSD> you know him and you don't know Inspector Closeau?
<sledge_> pink panter?
<GilbertBSD> Oui!
<GilbertBSD> He is more famous!
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: don't say Oui, say yes.
<sledge_> how come that you speak french?
<xeroz> so is python entry validation code of forms stored in files made with designer too?
<GilbertBSD> Oui is unambigously 'yes'.
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<gontran> now that was an interesting session last night!
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: and you claim to know Closeau?!?
<sledge_> xeroz: i think the code is in gnue-common and is used by designer and forms
<GilbertBSD> Si.
<gontran> bigups gnue!
<GilbertBSD> Nah, it was all a silly pun gone awry.
<sledge_> hey gontran :)
<GilbertBSD> Hi Gontran.
<gontran> sledge_ :)
<gontran> GilbertBSD :)
<sledge_> xeroz: so validation code doesn't have to be copied for every forms definition file
<sledge_> s/for/into/
<GilbertBSD> heheh...
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Action: GilbertBSD is quite happy vi commands reign everywhere.
<sledge_> hey, argentine convention here today? *g*
<StyXman> uh, cancer hit me before I could hackit. damn.
<Chipaca> sledge_: where?
<StyXman> Chipaca: hete in the channel, I think
<sledge_> Chipaca: here. iirc three argentinians are on this channel right now
<StyXman> s/hete/here/
<Chipaca> StyXman: nah! you've got to be kidding!
<StyXman> yes! I *swear*!
<Chipaca> oh my god! what is this channel coming to!
<xeroz> but can I embed python code to forms with designer?
<sledge_> join #gnuenterprise-ar :)
<GilbertBSD> so StyXman, Chipaca ... 
<GilbertBSD> how is .ar these days?
<StyXman> I count 4 argies.
<aprono> How do I save block data in a trigger?
<sledge_> xeroz: designer has iirc a bug, so you cannot yet use designer to write code
<StyXman> GilbertBSD: you mean... what?
Action: gontran runs from wild mad goats
<Chipaca> BAAA BAAAA
<GilbertBSD> there were a few problems recently, on TV...
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<GilbertBSD> how are things now?
<gontran> heh, not that kind ;)
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: only slightly worse
<sledge_> xeroz: you have to write the gnue forms definition file by hand, which is anyway the preferred method as long as designer isn't entirely ready
<StyXman> recently?!? we have problems since 30 years ago!
Action: Chipaca counts with his fingers
<GilbertBSD> Is there any thing that can save .ar ?
<Chipaca> let me see... since 1804?
<GilbertBSD> do you have any solutions?
<StyXman> ah, yes, ok. 200 years will be, then.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: solutions? ROTFL!!
<StyXman> :)))
<GilbertBSD> There have to be solutions! 
<sledge_> GilbertBSD: oh, the helpful and gracious world bank will surely donate money to argentine without require it to be paid back. ha - ha. (this is not exactly funny)
<GilbertBSD> heh.
<GilbertBSD> Wait lets see, I can lend you some money.
<GilbertBSD> I have 1, 2, 3.
<StyXman> what we need is a H-bomb.
<GilbertBSD> 3 dollars.
<sledge_> StyXman: H-bomb? who is the target?
<GilbertBSD> *.ar :)
<StyXman> we. or you. just choose.
<yogurt2unge> GilbertBSD: 3 for each of us?
<Chipaca> StyXman: yah, we could fake some nuclear tests, then the US will suspend all our trade shit (say what?), and then a bit later will lend us money to go away
<GilbertBSD> heheh. No for your government.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: keep it.
<GilbertBSD> your government represents *.ar no?
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: ROTFL!!!!
<yogurt2unge> No...... not to the  government!!!!>.. please
<sledge_> you guys threw out two presidents in a row IIRC, so what is impossible in argentina at all?
<StyXman> represents? who represents anyone? oneself.
<GilbertBSD> who will responsibly adiminister the dough then?
<StyXman> 4 presidents.
<GilbertBSD> Oh.
<sledge_> holy shit, you guys are even better than i thought.
<GilbertBSD> gimme some names.
<GilbertBSD> Peron, Peron jr, Evita and Che?
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: *********, ***, ******* ********, *****
<StyXman> and we're about to throw out another one. come on, what we need is the destruction of the whole world economy.
<sledge_> i read my daily indymedia, so i'm quite informed about what goes on in argentina
<GilbertBSD> Chipaca:  I don't want their passwords.
<Chipaca> GilbertBSD: oh, and ****** **** fuck-*********-sucker
<yogurt2unge> Who was Peron Jr?
<GilbertBSD> Peron must have had a child no?
<sledge_> who's the president right now (i have heard that can change within minutes in .ar :)
<StyXman> nope.
<StyXman> still being cabeza.
<StyXman> er, duhalde.
<sledge_> *g*
<sledge_> i thought it's the IMF
<Chipaca> sledge_: no, that's congress
<StyXman> well, yes. but they say us that cabeza is. just to make us think we elected him.
<StyXman> well, we didn't even elected him.
<GilbertBSD> Election is a symbolic act to make the populace think it is responsible for electing presidents :D
<GilbertBSD> isn't that cool?
<GilbertBSD> elect Puppet A or Puppet B
<sledge_> I don't need a president. i can represent myself very well on my own.
<StyXman> the problem is who owns the enterprises here.
<GilbertBSD> Puppet A has nice hair, Puppet B wears nice suits.
<sledge_> who owns them?
<GilbertBSD> sledge_ What if GW Bush comes over to meet *.ar
<GilbertBSD> who will meet him then?
<StyXman> you puppet is managed for peopel with enterprises inside the country, so the country must grow.
<StyXman> we don't have 'our enterprises'. everything is owned by people outside the country.
<GilbertBSD> Styx that can't be right.
<StyXman> GilbertBSD well, I could receive him, and tell him one thing or two.
<GilbertBSD> The Corned Beef company is still owned by the *.gov.ar no?
<sledge_> GilbertBSD: well, 70.000 people waited for him in berlin :)
<GilbertBSD> sledge_:  in the end he spoke to one person only... the chancellor of *.de and the representative of *.gov.de
<GilbertBSD> ;)
<sledge_> StyXman: "fremdsteuerung", or external control. a term commonly used in economic aid circles. it describes the control of a country's economy through external forces.
<StyXman> no? we have two telcos. they splited the country in two and each one ocuppied a half. one's from france and the other's from spain.
<sledge_> GilbertBSD: pitily. we had nice signs for him, i.e. "stop your wars" and "sign the kyoto protocol"
<GilbertBSD> sledge_ but if he signs the kyoto protocols, the puppet masters are gonna be upset!
<sledge_> StyXman: telefonica and ...?
<StyXman> sledge_: telecom (france)
<sledge_> GilbertBSD: metallica - master of puppets ;)
<StyXman> ('Stet' I guess)
<sledge_> StyXman: they 0wN y0u
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<StyXman> everybody owns us. except we.
<GilbertBSD> STyx you can get the Che brand from .cu and use it to help boost consumption in .ar :D
<sledge_> StyXman: reclaim your contry
<StyXman> hey, che is from cordoba. I mean, here.
<Chipaca> how was it I started appserver yesterday?
<StyXman> he gone tu cuba, but he grew here.
<GilbertBSD> STyx so get him back and use him as your marketing icon.
<GilbertBSD> He will be very proud of you. Remember, he wasn't really a communist.
<GilbertBSD> Communism was sprung onto him by Fidel. 
<StyXman> he's dead.
<GilbertBSD> yes but his brand still makes .cu a lot of money.
<GilbertBSD> you need him back.
<StyXman> and he's an icon. you can still buy a shirt with his face on it.
<StyXman> :) :-\
<GilbertBSD> si si, but the money goes to who? Not the people of .ar!
<StyXman> GilbertBSD: you get it.
<StyXman> you see? nothing belong to us.
<GilbertBSD> who does Exeter beef company belong to?
<StyXman> not even the people who we should be proud of.
<sledge_> StyXman: are there still asambleas?
<StyXman> sledge_: uh? there are lots of them, but at different levels.
<sledge_> StyXman: do they have any effect?
<StyXman> we'll see. give them time.
<sledge_> perhaps argentina manages to create the first assembly-based form of government, that'd be really cool
<StyXman> ??? who knows, maybe tomorrow you'll read in the papers that the half of the popilation killed the other half.
<GilbertBSD> aww the telefonica half?
<GilbertBSD> thats terrible!
<Chipaca> enough about us!
<sledge_> Chipaca: okay, but it was very interesting
<Chipaca> this is #gnuenterprise, not #yeatanotherletsallcryaboutargentina
<GilbertBSD> <sledge_> hey, argentine convention here today? *g*
<GilbertBSD> and that is how it started.
Action: GilbertBSD blames sledge
Action: gontran maintains: gnue's existance is justified on the precipitation of cultural exchange alone
Action: sledge_ is guilty :)
Action: dtm elevates gontran to a higher existential plane
<StyXman> yes, enougth! 
Nick change: gontran -> sartre
<sartre> D T M
[14:39] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
Nick change: sartre -> ft_gontran
<sledge_> sartre: i have an existential map for you, it reads "you are here" everywhere
Action: Chipaca precipitates gontran from his high plan
<GilbertBSD> Sartre "we make our own destinies".
<ft_gontran> sledge_ heh, where?
<dtm> sledge_: hahaha
<ft_gontran> HA Chipaca :)
<dtm> ft_gontran: where?  it's everywhere?  IT IS YOU.
<ft_gontran> D T M
<sledge_> ft_gontran: you are not a satre expert? :)
<ft_gontran> D T M
<Chipaca> what is IT?
<Chipaca> :)
<ft_gontran> sledge_ no, not at all.
<ft_gontran> i only know exestential buzz-words
<ft_gontran> heh
<ft_gontran> exestentialism is a vb-clone
<GilbertBSD> hahahaha
<dtm> ft_gontran: it's simple.  only if you shave your head and set yourself on fire in public protest, can you become truly enlightened
<GilbertBSD> VBClone.
<sledge_> *g*
<GilbertBSD> absolutement ridiculous.
<StyXman> d*g*
<ft_gontran> dtm children are the path to my enlightenment
<dtm> NO MORE CHILDREN
<Chipaca> dtm: unable to fork.
<sledge_> children are god's greatest gift
<dtm> they are miniature clones who can read our thoughts   THEY'LL KNOW EVERYTHING.  THEY'LL TELL.
<ft_gontran> http://www.theonion.com/onion3819/pope_forgives.html
<ft_gontran> sledge_ congrats on your new child :)
<GilbertBSD> haha
<sledge_> i don't have children, yet
<dtm> sledge_: oh really?!  then why is it that God created only ONE PLANET WHICH CAN PRODUCE CHOCOLATE?  huh?
<StyXman> Chipaca: 'unable to fork' doesn't sound very well.
<ft_gontran> sledge_ sorry, guess that's seisel :)
<dtm> _any_ planet's inhabitants can produce children
<sledge_> dtm: all other planets are made of chocolate
Action: ft_gontran puts away baptismal bowl
<GilbertBSD> dtm there were 4 othe such planets... but they were visited by the IMF
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<GilbertBSD> they are now down to 1 ... and counting.
<dtm> sledge_: :-o   it can't be!  blasphemy!!
<sledge_> GilbertBSD: you mean, the IMF created the chocolate crisis?
<StyXman> god's greatest gift? he created adam and eve, and then he told them they couldn't fork.
<GilbertBSD> no the ended the great times where chocolate was everywhere on those planets.
Action: Chipaca wants some of whatever it is you guys are smoking
<Chipaca> no I don't
Action: Chipaca does
<Chipaca> no I don't
Action: Chipaca does too
<sledge_> splitted personality, obviously
<GilbertBSD> StyXman: yes I blame god. He put the poor horny adam in the same garden as a strip tease like Eve.
<Chipaca> NOT
<StyXman> virtual cigarettes?
<StyXman> becareful of virtual cancer.
<yogurt2unge> I like the strip tease
Action: Chipaca notices fridays are bad internationally
<StyXman> it killed me just 30 mins ago.
<GilbertBSD> Chipaca:  TGIF
<Chipaca> TERRIBLE CASE OF THE KILLING MUTANT STRIP TEASE
<StyXman> nno, they're the bst day of the week. it's when chilliwilly drives himself *really* nuts
<yogurt2unge> Ups....
Action: sledge_ notices friday is the day of non-sense and unlimited fun.
<dtm> StyXman: hahahah what does he tend to do?   perhaps it's all so commonplace to me now.
<ft_gontran> D T M  <bass drums>  D T M
<dtm> :-D
<StyXman> he barfs and growls and tries to lick his nosetip.
<sledge_> dtm: your nick is the abbreviation for the german car rally championship :)
<StyXman> meanwhile, he tries to bite everybody's middle finger.
<sledge_> ouch
<dtm> sledge_: yay
<dtm> StyXman: HAHAHHAAH@#*)@!*#
<dtm> THTA'S EXACTLY HOW HE IS..   DOYOU KNOW HIM OR SOMETHING?!
<dtm> it's almost like you've met before
<sledge_> can we change the subject to something less pervert, say, sexual diseases or something like that?
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<dtm> sledge_: No.
<dtm> chillywilly is family!
<dtm> you dont understand!
<Chipaca> BURN HIM!!
<dtm> well.... ok..
<sledge_> splitters!
<dtm> first you have to catch him
<StyXman> no. I just chatted with him 5 minutes. I think that's eniugth.
<dtm> StyXman: OIC
<reinhard> l8r all
<dtm> reinhard: l8r
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<StyXman> OIC?
<StyXman> Bye
<Chipaca> oh i see
<ajmitch> morning all
<ft_gontran> mrning ajmitch 
Action: sledge_ notices that visual basic might be a sexually transmitted disease.
<StyXman> evenings
<sledge_> ajmitch: hey, how'r'ya?
<dtm> sledge_: it's an MSTD
<dtm> sledge_: to be handled by careful abstinance
<dtm> very deliberate
<ft_gontran> abstinance
<sledge_> i see
Action: ft_gontran wants to party with Jenna Bush
<sledge_> who the f*** is jenna bush?
<ft_gontran> give her some visual basic
<StyXman> I want to pary with my gf.
<StyXman> and I'm here, working.
<ft_gontran> sledge_ pres. Bushes daughter :) hehe
<ft_gontran> j/k
<Chipaca> StyXman: pary?
<Chipaca> StyXman: gf??
<sledge_> he has a daughter? that poor girl...
<GilbertBSD> 2
<StyXman> party. girlfiriend.
<GilbertBSD> they are twins
<StyXman> friend. taht
<StyXman> that. fucking coffee.
<sledge_> oh my godness. are they part of the axis of evil?
<Chipaca> StyXman: i know gf is a girlfriend.
Action: ft_gontran loosens his priests collar
<ft_gontran> kinda warm 
Action: ft_gontran thinking twins
<ft_gontran> sledge_ heh, soon! hehe
<sledge_> do they like good, at least?
<yogurt2unge> I like the twin's party
<sledge_> and do they have a higher iq than their dad? *g*
<Chipaca> StyXman: specially not one that keeps a weblog
<ft_gontran> heh. i hope not
<sledge_> s/like/look/
Action: ft_gontran is married
<ft_gontran> to my FAITH
<ft_gontran> heh
<StyXman> well, ok.
<sledge_> you make me cry, i have no gf :(
<GilbertBSD> sledge_ but I thought you were betrothed to GNUe :O
<StyXman> ok, let's work
<sledge_> no, i just fix something from time to time
<sledge_> StyXman: whaddya wanna work?
Action: ajmitch is just a GNUe groupie
<StyXman> forms
<sledge_> StyXman: not my terrain
<StyXman> I add a new widget. I modify GFParser. I modify UIdriver.
<sledge_> which new widget?
<StyXman> what's next? I mean, *how* do I say that this new GFj uses UIj as visual representation?
<StyXman> sledge_: actually, I'm tearing off the maintoolbar.
<sledge_> hm
<StyXman> we realized that it may be very confusing for somebody using our app.
<sledge_> don't know, honestly
<ft_gontran> StyXman could you make it a toggleable option ?
<StyXman> well, I don't know eithr. I don't blame you :)
<StyXman> ft_gontran: it's the same. I also try to learn how to do it. add a new widget, I mean.
<StyXman> we'll need that sooner or later.
<ft_gontran> StyXman yeah, me too, working on nstti (curses ui)
<StyXman> ft_gontran: I guess you're luckier than me. you 'just' need to reimplement everything on wx's UIdriver.
Action: StyXman wanders where's jcater
<dtm> StyXman: THERE IS NO JCATER.  ONLY ZUUL.
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<ft_gontran> StyXman did you mod wx/UIdriver.py so that the maintoolbar doesn't get created ?
<aprono> sledge_: How do I save block data in a trigger?
Action: dtm arranges a percussion medley across four tonal bass drums in celebration of ft_gontran, and gets the crowd chanting "GON TRAN   GON TRAN   GON TRAN   GON TRAN"
<StyXman> ft_gontran: yeap.
<sledge_> aprono: good question, i haven't done that
<ft_gontran> StyXman cool
<StyXman> hey, it's just comment a line...
Action: dtm signals the crowd to up their signs, forming the giant shape of the word "GONTRAN" across the stadium
<ft_gontran> StyXman make it configurable via a gfd element or something so it can be toggled :)
Action: ft_gontran dives into the crowd and gets the D T M chant restarted
<dtm> lol
<ft_gontran> StyXman and send in a patch :)
Action: ft_gontran hears the bass drums restart
<StyXman> ft_gontran: you're a genius. ok, after being cynic, my problem is 'just' how to tell that UIMainToolBar is the ui version of GFMainToolBar
<ft_gontran> hmm
<ft_gontran> i'm not sure i understand, let me restate what i think you mean, and you can correct me please
Action: dtm starts a 'wave' in the crowd
<ft_gontran> you're saying that you're problem is how to determine when it is appropriate to set the toggle?  Or when?  I'm not sure i understand :(
<StyXman> nonononono.
Action: ft_gontran hears the rustle: D T M
<ft_gontran> StyXman please enlighten me
<Chipaca> wtf is dtm, anyway
<StyXman> ft_gontran: I created both UImtb and GFmtb. I even modified GFParser to recognize a <mtb> tag. what I need is to konw how to tell the whole gnue that UImtb and GFmtb are related. that the former is a UI representation of the latter.
<ft_gontran> ah
<StyXman> (where mtb is actually MainToolBar)
<dtm> Chipaca: one may ask the same of you, may'nt one?  :)  i've been here about every day for the last N months :)
<dtm> proudly ranting up a storm, i might add
<Chipaca> dtm: so have I
<dtm> Chipaca: hmmm  it must have been in a different #gnuenterprise or on a different OPN
<Chipaca> dtm: maybe my N is smaller than your N
<dtm> ahhh
<ft_gontran> StyXman so you've created a new widget class specific to and an inheriting class of the ...
<Chipaca> ft_gontran: you're expecting completion, or writing more?
<StyXman> uihelper, uiwidget.
<StyXman> 'specific to'?
<ft_gontran> writing more
<ft_gontran> i'm just trying to grok
<StyXman> ft_gontran: O don't seem to understand your vocabulary.
<StyXman> s/O/I/
<ft_gontran> adding a uiwidget is more complicated than my understanding right now
Action: StyXman runs to grab president's kbd
<Chipaca> riot!
<solibre> Hi again. I have a question about gcd files. What are they used for ?
<StyXman> much better.
<StyXman> god files? I gues to remember who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
<StyXman> ah! gcd files. sorry.
<Chipaca> StyXman: GCD. lavate los ojos.
Action: ajmitch smacks StyXman around some
<ft_gontran> StyXman i suppose you would need to integrate it everywhere there is an maintoolbar
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> gcd files are GNUe class definition files for GEAS, the previous incarnation of the appserver
<solibre> Yes, it means they are obsolete now ?
<ajmitch> i don't know, i think they may be used in appserver
Action: ft_gontran stfs
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<solibre> I didn't try appserver so far. They have nothing to do with Forms then ?
<ajmitch> solibre: not yet, it will work with forms in the future tho :)
Action: ajmitch wonders who Joe Konecny <jkonecn@green-mfg.com> is
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<ft_gontran> siesel congrats on your new child :)
<StyXman> ft_gontran: uh? the mtb was created on UIForm.GFUserInterface.init
<ajmitch> hey siesel
<ft_gontran> hmm.  i guess i'll just have to wait and see :)
<siesel> hi ajmitch, still online? or online again?
<ajmitch> online again
<Chipaca> ajmitch: horray
<Chipaca> hip-hip-squish
<StyXman> could it be the WIDGETS hash @ the end of UIdriver? says it's for designer...
<ft_gontran> hmm
Action: StyXman washes his eyes with bleacher.
<ft_gontran> could be.
<ft_gontran> i'm not groking the problem StyXman 
Nick change: ft_gontran -> ft_estupido
<StyXman> ft_estupido: why the name? I'm trying anyways...
<Chipaca> ft_gontran: in one place you define a GFThing, elsewhere yuo define a UIThing, and you want the UIThing to show up and behave like GFThing whereever a <thing> shows up in the gfd
Nick change: ft_estupido -> gontran
<gontran> yes, i got that :)
Nick change: Chipaca -> FTP_Chipaca
<gontran> now you have added a GF element
Action: FTP_Chipaca looks at his fingers
<gontran> that you would like to behave in the same way
Nick change: FTP_Chipaca -> FTL_Chipaca
<FTL_Chipaca> bah, it doesn't work
<sledge_> bye then :)
Nick change: FTL_Chipaca -> Chipaca
<gontran> the same way as all of the other GF elements
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<Chipaca> gontran: yes
<gontran> and you've created a corresponding UI class that inherits
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<siesel> hi jcater.
<gontran> StyXman Chipaca did you really need a GF thing?
<StyXman> gontran: inherits just GFObj and GFEventAware
<gontran> ah
<gontran> that sounds right 
<StyXman> gontran: maybe not with *this* example, but later maybe.
<gontran> hmm.  personally i find the GF UI abstraction is taking me awhile to get. :)
<StyXman> jcater: excuse me, are you an expert on forms or designer?
<jcater> err, define expert
<StyXman> jcater: ok, can you try to answer something about forms?
<ajmitch> hi jcater
<ajmitch> if jcater can't, i'd be worried :)
<StyXman> say I develope a GFThing and a UIThing. where do I say that they're related?\
<jcater> UIwxpython
<StyXman> oh, shit.
<StyXman> it's incredible how a word, a simple word, can change you whole mood.
<ajmitch> :)
<StyXman> jcater: I owe you one. a big one.
<jcater> dare I ask what you've added?
<StyXman> jcater: I try to tear off the maintoolbar.
<StyXman> jcater: we think it may be confusing to inexpert users.
<StyXman> jcater: we want it off. so, I added a tag <maintoolbar>
<gontran> is that forms/src/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py
<StyXman> and try to do the rest
<StyXman> gontran: I guess not.
<StyXman> gontran: I guess it's not.
<gontran> StyXman i believe it may be
<StyXman> gontran: you mean the hash I mentioned, WIDGETS?
<StyXman> myabe /home/mdione/src/work/fvl/gnue/src/navigator/src/UIwxpython.py
<gontran> ah wait, is it navigator/src/UIwxpython.py, then StyXman YES the WIDGETS entry would possibly be required
<siesel> jcater: anything new about the release?
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<Yurik> hi all
Action: Yurik just found out that local telecom provides dialup w/o contract. now I'm here from home :^)
<StyXman> uh I don't get what UIwxpython is for.
<gontran> i haven't looked at designer StyXman, sorry
<gontran> bbl 
Nick change: gontran -> gontr|away
<Yurik> here I even do not start X - very old PC and monoSVGA ;))) so, I'm not in my tasty xchat :)
<StyXman> gontr|away: I don't use designer. I just want forms to show it. actually, all I got now is Gdk-ERROR **: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
<StyXman>   serial 2861 error_code 3 request_code 15 minor_code 0
<Chipaca> btw, is there any reason the widgets all require x and y attribs?
Action: Yurik is downloading tools for the development
<jcater> Chipaca: to position them on screen
<StyXman> yes, we think that's both wrong and wrong.
<Chipaca> jcater: can't that be done automatically?
Action: Yurik feels himself like a man from old times... 14k modem... monoSVGA... P-120...9.1Gb HDD :) Ok, ok, I'll stop spamming now ;)
<siesel> why?
<StyXman> jcater: you don't need x and y to position sth on the screen
<jcater> sure you don't
<jcater> but we have better / more important stuff to do than layout management
<jcater> and we get the most bang for the buck w/ x,y
<StyXman> jcater: ok. later we'll talk about it.
<StyXman> jcater: I did the following things:
<StyXman> jcater: modified GFParser to recongnize <maintoolbar>
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<StyXman> jcater: modified UIdriver, adding the UIMaintoolbar class, inheriting UIHelper and UIWidget
Action: Chipaca notes we should actually make a UIToolbar, and make UIMaintoolbar inherit off of it
<Chipaca> one thing at a time :)
<StyXman> jcater: modified GFFOrm (I know it may be not the best place) to add the GFmtb class, inheriting GFObj and GFEventAware
<StyXman> jcater: and added 'GFmtb': UImtb to WIDGETS hash @ the end of UIdriver
<StyXman> jcater: should I do anything else?
<StyXman> (I think that's all)
<jcater> StyXman: I don't recall
<jcater> it seems you have all the right places
<StyXman> jcater: yes, I thought so, but running gfcvs against ... gimme two seconds.
Action: StyXman tries with a form without a mtb.
<StyXman> .Gdk-ERROR **: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
<StyXman>   serial 2861 error_code 3 request_code 15 minor_code 0
<StyXman> Gdk-ERROR **: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
<StyXman>   serial 2861 error_code 3 request_code 15 minor_code 0
<Chipaca> nice!
<StyXman> sorry, I didn't mean to paste.
<StyXman> same thing.
<StyXman> Chipaca: nice?
<Chipaca> jcater: any ideas?
Action: StyXman hates when things don't work
<StyXman> it's a parser problem!! (zanx chip)
<Chipaca> 2$
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<StyXman> jcater: can you join me @ #flood?
<StyXman> Chipaca: you're curious.
<siesel> night
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<btami> hello
<gontr|away> re btami
Nick change: gontr|away -> gontran
<StyXman> how could it be that a (wrong) modification on the *parser* kills the window creation.
<gontran> brb
<StyXman> I mean, if it would be a parsing problem, it should die saying so.
<StyXman> gontran: coward :)
<btami> jcater around?
<StyXman> btami: is here, but doesn't answer.
<btami> :)
<StyXman> I'd say :(
<StyXman> jcater: helooooooooo! :(
<StyXman> btami: you know anything about forms?
<btami> not too much
<StyXman> btami: uh, you ever touched GFParser?
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<btami> just testing/bughunting
<Chipaca> when I get a 'NameError: name '_' is not defined' error, what am I missing?
<StyXman> btami: can you join me @ #flood?
<StyXman> btami: this is *not* a date
<StyXman> btami: I repeat, it's *not* a date :)
<btami> is it _() ?
<btami> for trenslatable strings
<Chipaca> btami: yes, the scripts use _()
<btami> you use cvs?
<Chipaca> btami: yes
<btami> up to date?
<Chipaca> btami: I think so
<btami> _() things are in GBaseApp.py in common
<StyXman> btami: please...
<btami> for i18n support
<StyXman> btami: !!!
<Chipaca> btami: thank you
<btami> nothing
<StyXman> btami: can you join me in the #flood channel? I need to paste lots of things I want you to see.
<StyXman> man window
<btami> huh, #flood not gnue, i'm there now
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<Chipaca> chillywilly!
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<chillywilly> hi Chipaca
<StyXman> hi chillywilly 
<chillywilly> ello
<Yurik_> chillywilly hello
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<StyXman> jcater: ok, gotta go. it's good to know I'm near.
<StyXman> bye you all.
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<chillywilly> ello Yurik_
<chillywilly> hi everyone
<btami> hi
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<chillywilly> heheh
Action: Yurik_ do not use X here :(
<chillywilly> sucks to be you
<chillywilly> ;P
<Yurik_> :)
<Yurik_> but it is better to sit home at night than at office. i'm fed w/ office
<Yurik_> :)
<chillywilly> fed up?
<Yurik_> yes, probably fed up (sorry for my ugly English =) )
<gontran> ooh chillywilly :)
Action: gontran hits the sardine pipe
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<gontran> chillywilly how's WI today?
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<chillywilly> it is fine I guess
<gontran> glad to hear it mister
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<gontran> bye
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<esands> Is there a quick way to install PySablot in debian?
<chillywilly> dunno
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<esands> I guess I need a gnue debian guy to tell me then
<chillywilly> define "gnue debian guy"
<chillywilly> if this means a gnue developer that uses debian then I fall into that category
<esands> er, "someone who's install pysablot in debian" then. ;)
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<ajmitch> greetings o ppl
<drochaid> aren't we e people nowadays?
<ajmitch> nope, sorry
<drochaid> aww :(
<ajmitch> we're doing oCommerce now, e-commerce is old news ;)
<drochaid> :o
<drochaid> oCommerce? do tell :)
<ajmitch> it's the latest buzzword
<ajmitch> of course the o doesn't actually stand for anything
<drochaid> that's good ... for a moment there I though old spice was being used as currency
<ajmitch> haha
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<ajmitch> hi jcater
<jcater> hiya
<jcater> how's life down yonder
<jcater> ?
<ajmitch> fine & dandy
<ajmitch> btw, are you having issues with subversions.gnu.org at the moment?
<ajmitch> it's incredibly slow for me & ping drops packets like mad
<jcater> does seem to be going slowly
<jcater> although it did update
<ajmitch> yeah, it's updating here, just about 10x slower than usual :)
Action: jcater is away: I'm, um, away
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--- Sat May 25 2002