[00:07] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> nope, it's his long lost brother
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<solibre> info
Action: solibre slaps solibre around with a small 50lb Unix Manual
<solibre> oups
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<siesel> hi all (good morning)
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<Tader> hi ppl!
<ra3vat> Tader: hello
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<jamest> i'm here
<jamest> or the the comment from dneighbo from last nite?
<jamest> s/the the/is the
<solibre> Hi ! does someone managed to run any sample of Report ?
<solibre> I mean successfully :-)
<jamest> yip
<jamest> but not me :)
<jamest> dneighbo uses it at work
<ajmitch> hi
<jamest> jcater does too (but he wrote the thing so he doesn't count :)
<solibre> that's what I was thinking about dneighbo
<solibre> that he wrote it so he doesn(t count :-)
<jamest> nah
<jamest> dneighbo usually is too busy breaking our stuff to write reports
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> i've got to learn how to use forms & reports properly
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<ajmitch> hi siesel
<siesel> hi ajmitch 
<siesel> hi all
<solibre> do you know about any doc about it
<solibre> hi !
<ajmitch> where use == implement an app
<jamest> i think there is a text file it's it's doc dir
<jamest> and jcater may have started a lyx doc in there as well
<solibre> there is a ReportingConcept.lyx file, but of no use when you try to underctand whty it doesn't work :-(
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<siesel> solibre: do you get pysablot working?
<solibre> sorry. Yes everything works fine
<siesel> pysablot doesN't install on debian woody. it complains: gcc -shared build/temp.linux-i686-2.1/PySablot.o build/temp.linux-i686-2.1/PySablot_wrap.o -lsablot -lxmlparse -lxmltok -liconv -o build/lib.linux-i686-2.1/PySablot.so
<siesel>  /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lxmlparse 
<solibre> Right. I had to had to create some symlinks to compile the package (from libxmltok.so.0 to libxmltok.so)
<solibre> (I use a RH7.1)
<siesel> there should be a prepacked version of pysablot :)
<solibre> Yes but I prefere to start with a tgz when I don't know to have full doc, samples, and install in /usr/local so that I don't disturb anything
Action: siesel siesel tries to depend on dpkg -i and dpkg --purge only.
<solibre> on RH, even python2 is a problem because some packages use python1.5. So python2 is also a tgz install on my system 
<siesel> solibre: why don't you switch to debian ;)
<solibre> because I'm lazy :-)
<solibre> siesel : but next time I need to make a major upgrade that require a mot of update (like libc) I surely will
<siesel> btw. pysablot depends on a libiconv. I just found it in a lisp interepreter. seems a bit weard :)
<solibre> siesel : libiconv is for handling of unicode I yhink
<solibre> I had to install it especially for pysablot
<siesel> It is not needed any more, seems to have moved into clib.
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<solibre> I did not have this libiconv on my system, so I think there is no other choice than installing it
<solibre> To fall back to report, I tried to follow the code and python traceback to find the error, but it's quite complicated. Is there any document explaining the structure of GNUe (objects structure and dependencies)
<jamest> not yet :(
<jamest> i started one on common but am too busy at the moment
<siesel> but pySablot still doesn't work, seems to have a too new version of sablotron :(
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<jcater> siesel: fyi: PySablot debs are at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/debian/
<jcater> thanks to nickr
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<solibre> for now it seems that Report does not make use of PySablot (I mean at this stage of devel)
<jcater> it does if you use the XSL filters
<solibre> I thought the only filter now available was raw
<jcater> with the SimpleTabulation style reports, you also have plain text, CSV, and HTML
<jcater> with Gnumeric/KSpread and Postscript in the works
<jcater> the foobulations example uses the SimpleTabulation style
<solibre> Unfortunately, I've not be able to run any sample up to now (that's my problem) =<:-)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> do you have reports installed?
<ajmitch> jcater: what about OO.o file support?
<jcater> ajmitch: yeah, I just need to break down their XML format and figure it out :)
<ajmitch> heh, ok
<jcater> the KOffice formats were fairly straightforward
<ajmitch> since i'd day that that format would be more popular than KOffice
<jcater> Gnumeric is quite confusing
Action: ajmitch wonders if koffice is usable yet :)
<jcater> we use it
<jcater> it's fine for basic office needs
<ajmitch> oh cool
<jcater> and doesn't crap out my server when 40 ppl need a spreadsheet
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> my mother is stupid - she's prepared to pay $$ for MS Office
Action: ajmitch is trying to convince her not to get it
<jcater> solibre: did you install reports using gnue/setup-cvs.py  ??
<solibre> jcater : I use a refreshed_this morning cvs version installed with setup-cvs.py
<jcater> ajmitch: yeah, I put OOo in my other office (in place of MS Office)
<jcater> and the response from my BUFH was "it's too generic"
Action: jcater was like, wtf.... what is "too generic looking" ?
<ajmitch> heh
<jcater> solibre: can you run ~/bin/grcvs --help ?
<jcater> does that at least work?
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Action: ajmitch seriously needs to get in & learn how to use forms :)
<solibre> I run grcvs which is a symlink in /usr/local/bin to ~/gnue/reports/client/grcvs
<solibre> grcvs start, I can see the beginning of output (<reportheader>My Report Header ....) then error 
<ajmitch> hmm, getting a boatload of errors when running trigger.gfd
<ajmitch> generally ending like:
<ajmitch> DB000:     self.__dict__[name]._triggerSet(value)
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFObjects/GFEntry.py", line 224, in triggerSetValue
<ajmitch> DB000:     value = float(value)
<ajmitch> DB000: ValueError: invalid literal for float(): You can change me!
<ajmitch> (from when i try to click in a text entry field
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<jcater> ajmitch: absolutely
<jcater> so you can do us some debs :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> jcater: got to get some of these sample forms going first
<ajmitch> some work
<ajmitch> others seem to bomb :)
<jcater> solibre: which sample are you trying to run there?
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/_base/UIdriver.py", line 287, in updateEntry
<ajmitch> DB000:     if event.data.hidden:
<ajmitch> DB000: AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'hidden'
<ajmitch> for samples/button/forms/form.gfd :)
<jcater> hrm
<ajmitch> cvs was updated ~15min ago
Action: ajmitch wants to be just like derek ;)
<solibre> jcater: sample/location/zip-by-state.grd (with table from Forms samples/zipcode correctly created )
<dneighbo> solibre: i suggest usiing foobulations not location sample
Action: ajmitch really really needs a flatfile or similar db driver, for using on windows machines with no DB installed 
<jcater> ajmitch: ok, trigger sample is fixed
<jcater> what's another one?
<jcater> ah, buttons
<ajmitch> jcater: the button sample broke for me
Action: ajmitch luvs forms
<dneighbo> ajmitch: you could implement gadfly driver for us :)
<dneighbo> or xml driver
<dneighbo> so that we could have gnue lite :)
<dneighbo> er forms lite
<ajmitch> dneighbo: heh, i was looking at gadfly the other day - saw it was orphaned in debian
<ajmitch> yeah, that would rock actually
<dneighbo> interbase used to to have personal interbase which was basically an interbase for desktops but same API
<dneighbo> i wonder if firebird has this?
<dneighbo> btami would probably know
<ajmitch> yeah, a light db that could be installed would work ok - still overkill for some
Action: ajmitch wants to see if he can do a replacement for a python app (currently using wxwindows), using forms & reports
<ajmitch> is there a grid widget in forms?
<ajmitch> argh, can't close 'property inspector' window in designer
Action: ajmitch wonders if this is yet another mysterious sawfish bug
<dneighbo> <entry rows="x"> is ouur grid currently
<dneighbo> ajmitch: i had that problem yesterday
<dneighbo> bye bye
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<ajmitch> dneighbo: yeah, the wxwindows grid is a grid of text entry widgets
<ajmitch> bah
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<ajmitch> hi again siesel
<jcater> well, anyone have any critical outstanding bugs in any of the products?
<jcater> um
<jcater> besides lack of documentation
<ajmitch> apart from the obvious designer ones where i can't close a window? ;)
<ajmitch> (unless i use the menu)
<jamest> yes
<siesel> jcater
Action: ajmitch is just trying to learn how to build a form
<jamest> if you have a dropdown pulling values from a datasource
<jamest> and the key is an int field
<jamest> the system blows up
<jcater> do we have any samples that do that?
<jamest> #2 is
<jamest> if you have an int field in your db and attempt to commit
<jamest> it's value is converted to a float and the commit bombs
<jamest> no samples
<jcater> ooo
<jcater> that last one's gonna be a biggie to fix
<jamest> both of these have very limited testing
<jamest> just something i noticed here at work and intented to fix about 2-3 weeks ago
<jamest> sigh
<siesel> jcater: can I test reports without pysablot?
<ajmitch> how up to date are docs for people wanting to learn how to use stuff?
<jcater> siesel: yeah, but it won't be overly useful
<siesel> its seems like my sablot version doesn't work with pysablot 0.1
Nick change: solibre -> solibre|zz
<jcater> siesel: what OS / PySablot?
<siesel> Debian unstable
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> did you try out PySablot debs?
<ajmitch> jcater: so is forms not being packaged at the moment?
<jcater> ajmitch:?
Action: ajmitch scrolls up to see context
<siesel> jcater: I didn't found any pysablot debs.
<ajmitch> [02:15:49] <jcater> ajmitch: absolutely
<ajmitch> [02:15:51] <jcater> so you can do us some debs :)
<ajmitch> ah, there, what debs were you wanting?
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<jcater> siesel: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/debian/
<Remosi> Mmm
<Remosi> crunchy debs
<jcater> ajmitch: I don't really know
<jcater> several have tried
<jcater> none have succeeded
<jcater> afaik
<ajmitch> yo Remosi
<ajmitch> jcater: ok
<Remosi> ajmitch!
<ajmitch> you should be in bed! ;)
<ajmitch> it's nearly 3am where you are
<Remosi> yeah
<Remosi> you're right
<Remosi> I've been doing some funky routing at work
<ajmitch> fun
<siesel> jcater: pysablot is working now. thx
Action: ajmitch goes to bed
<siesel> ajmitch: night
Action: Remosi sleeps too
<Remosi> g'night all
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<siesel> jcater: I got a "KeyError: dtsFoo" running the foobulations sample. any ideas?
Action: siesel is changing terminal
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<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> gah
<jcater> will fix in a minute
<jcater> must run to work now
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<siesel> cool. reports is working great!
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<xeroz> siegel: is there new version?
<jamest> no
<jamest> it's still in CVS
<jamest> :(
<xeroz> I haven't tried cvs version. What kind of reports you successfully made?
<jamest> <jcater> with the SimpleTabulation style reports, you also have plain text, CSV, and HTML
<jamest> <jcater> with Gnumeric/KSpread and Postscript in the works
<jamest> <jcater> the foobulations example uses the SimpleTabulation style
<jamest> ....from earlier today
<xeroz> so it will be possible to use Gnumeric/KSpread on the server to generate reports too?
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<jamest> those are output types
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<siesel> hi dneighbo.
<siesel> dneighbo: can you descibe how GRServer should work, if its finished?
<dneighbo> it will be similar to an appserver onlyh for reports
<dneighbo> er that didnt comeout right
<dneighbo> it will be the reporting engine in distributed mode
<dneighbo> i.e. it is the reports engine accessed via some sort of rpc
<dneighbo> let me find a drawing
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/docs/reporter/flowchart.html
<dneighbo> is an OLD drawing
<dneighbo> so somethings could be ignored
<dneighbo> GRServer woudl be that middle box labeled 'report server'
<dneighbo> GEDI Server would be Appserver
<dneighbo> and libgda is GNUe Common DB Drivers
<dneighbo> anywhere you see CORBA it shoucl be GNUe Common RPC
Action: dneighbo should probably update this document and the flowchart
<dneighbo> as its dated enough to be confusing but not so dated its horridly wrong
Action: jcater knows exactly what GRServices will look like :)
<dneighbo> jcater i would hope so :)
<siesel> does it makes sense to have a GRServer which is starting up a hard coded report on an RPC request for the release?   
<stbain> GNUe doesn't use the GNU Savannah Sourceforge installation anymore?
<dneighbo> stbain?
<stbain> dneighbo?
<dneighbo> siesel i dont fully follow here, the wording of the question
<dneighbo> i think for the current release of reports we werent even going to do it as RPC services
<jcater> no
<jcater> I'm not ready for that
<jcater> at all
<dneighbo> just as static server
<dneighbo> and the release after that woudl probably be ironing out bugs and getting better transformation support
<siesel> I've added RPC support to GRServer for testing purposes. I just don't know if should put it in cvs or not.
<dneighbo> and then the release after that would maybe start tackling distributed reports (or at least that is how i was seeing it)
<siesel> ok. I commit the changes after a long discussion with jcater one week after the release ;)
<dneighbo> stbain : i didnt understand your question
<dneighbo> siesel i think we will want to do it post release, but we definitely want RPC enabled reports
<dneighbo> its just a baby steps thing :)
<dneighbo> stbain : we use savannah, in part, our cvs and mailing lists are there
<dneighbo> stbain : we ditched their bug track stuff for DCL (eating our own dogfood so to speak)
<dneighbo> and we have always maintained a more enhanced webpage outside of GNU servers, for flexibilty
<dneighbo> did that answer the question?
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<stbain> yes
<stbain> so how do I get added to the project?
<stbain> BTW... you might want to change the home page pointer on the Savannah page, it's pointing to some pretty old stuff
<dsmith> dneighbo: Does savannah have a bug track system?
<stbain> dsmith: yes
<dneighbo> dsmith a cruddy one
<dneighbo> well its not horrid just not super great :)
<dneighbo> stbain do you have an assignment turned in?
<dsmith> Didn't see it anywhere. Just Curious.
<dneighbo> that is the first step
<dneighbo> then you have to register with savannah i believe
<stbain> dneighbo: yes, I mailed my FSF thingy in
<stbain> I'm registered with savannah as "stbain"
<dneighbo> and i believe the way it works is that if you are listed on savannah you have cvs access
<dneighbo> what we have been doing or discussed doing (because of administration issues)
<dneighbo> is having people just submit patches
<dneighbo> and if you submit a few patches then we give cvs access
<dneighbo> mainly becuase we were doing a lot of overhead to set people up and they werent using the accounts
<dneighbo> so then we had to maintain deleting them and such
<dneighbo> as we get larger as well i assume we will go more traditional where every 'product' has a maintainer and one or two leads
<dneighbo> and they will have cvs access and all commits will go through them
<stbain> right
<dneighbo> just for sanity purposes
<stbain> the lieutenants report to the colonels who report to the generals
<dneighbo> something like that :)
<stbain> aye aye captain, three bags full
<dneighbo> we arent nearly that complex yet as you can tell :)
<stbain> hehe
<stbain> yah
<dneighbo> if you have assignment and have account on savannah email www-support@gnuenterprise.org stating you wish to be added to develoeprs list give your name and savannah account id and such and i willl look into it
<dneighbo> normally jamest handles the savannah stuff but he is swamped
<stbain> no problem
<stbain> sent
<siesel> jcater: I'll try to run the location = zipcode example. after some changes I got a AttributeError: GRDataMapperSection instance has no attribute '_GRDataMapper__nextRecord'   ERROR.
Nick change: solibre|zz -> solibre
<solibre> siesel : I see you had "KeyError: dtsFoo" running the foobulations sample. I've got the same trouble.What have you done to correct this
<siesel> a simple 'cvs update'
<siesel> jcater is coding like a devil today :)
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<siesel> l8r
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<dneighbo> does that make jcater el diablo
<solibre> I would say jcater code like a god. After 2 days of struggle I can run Reports :-))))))))))))
<dneighbo> rofl
Action: dneighbo envisions jcater in a wooden throne (ala CP30) being paraded around by a bunch of ewoks in awe
<solibre> ( you can hear some drums here :)
<dsmith> Jub Jub!
<dneighbo> go to lunch a mortal, return a god
<dneighbo> isnt that nice
<jcater> yeah, well
<jcater> she thought so too
<dneighbo> hmmm xforms is now LGPL
<dneighbo> helps defend lyx a little more to some eh
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<jamest> i'm sure it still won't be lgpl'd enough just like qt isn't gpl'd enough for some :)
<dneighbo> yogurt2unge i asked a friend that is from mexico about what a chipaca was
<dneighbo> they said they thought is was like a 'criollo' and that in mexico had somethign similar called biscochos... and that it was like a pretzel with out salt
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<dneighbo> and after a few days it will get really hard
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: In mexico chipaca had another meaning
<dneighbo> that sound about right
<Chipaca> dneighbo: having problems with your erection?
<dneighbo> ?
<yogurt2unge> is It a hot line?
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Action: Chipaca points at what dneighbo said as I came in
<dneighbo> i get it now :)
<dneighbo> hahaha
<StyXman> the people wnats to *know*!
<Chipaca> StyXman: read the logs
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: Chipaca is in line, ask him
<dneighbo> curious if chipaca is like a pretzel
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: nop
Action: dneighbo has a fetish for learning about other cultures 
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: you can use a chipaca in the same way that the pretzel but it is diferent
<StyXman> dneighbo: think of a tit. take out the nipple. and make it of fatty bread. you get it.
<Chipaca> StyXman: you are short-rashioned on tits
<yogurt2unge> tits are tits and chipaca is another thing
<yogurt2unge> I like tits too
<dneighbo> well i can see why if a piece of food, looked like a tit and felt like a tit it woudl be popular
Action: dneighbo thinks we need chipaca's here
Action: Chipaca hopes someone comes in sensors us all away
Action: Chipaca looked for 'chipaca' on google and discovered he's on someone's ignore list
<Chipaca> http://www.em.ca/~tomg/irc/dotirc/ignore
<dneighbo> 100 bucks says a search on google for chipaca has gnue somewhere in the top 10
<Chipaca> dneighbo: top 1
<Chipaca> :)
Action: dneighbo cant search for ANYTHING anymore that i have no information on, and not have GNUe be in the top 10
<Chipaca> http://www.greenhousemusic.de/cd1011.htm
<Chipaca> hey, there's a Chipaca river in br!
<StyXman> Chipaca: short-rashioned?
<dneighbo> now me really wants to see a picture of this 'boob bread'
<StyXman> dict says no rashion.
<StyXman> mb rationed?
<Chipaca> StyXman: yes, self.spelling sucks
<StyXman> ok, then I guess I have enought tits for myself.
<jcater> dneighbo: better yet: search for "lyx docbook debian" and chillywilly's infamous email is on second page :)
Action: Chipaca tries to parse that in spanish and then retranslate it into english, and fails
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk2-0-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> anyone need any old Great Plains/Mac users manuals?
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> Chipaca could i get Chipaca at a brazilian restaurant?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: nope
<Chipaca> dneighbo: you couldn't get one anywhere more than 100km from where we stand
Action: Chipaca notes StyXman has just managed to get 'ls -l' to work on his thesis project
Action: Chipaca pulls out the beer
<StyXman> *yes* fuckin *yes*!
<StyXman> fs are so great when they work !
Action: Chipaca goes over to StyXman's box and makes the kernel panic with that sophisticated hacker tool, 'cat'.
<dneighbo> rofl
<StyXman> nono, no file ops yet.
<dneighbo> do you have receipe for this bread?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: nope
<StyXman> dneighbo: tomorrow? we're no good a cooking.
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: yes, the hand
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<StyXman> s/a/at/
<dneighbo> so Chipaca and company where are you at with your current application?
<StyXman> dneighbo: it's rather fine. tomorrow there'll be the first release.
Action: Chipaca thinks version 0.01 will leave people with the 'so, I downloaded all of gnue and made this humongous database for *this*' feeling
<Chipaca> but hey, we're learning
<StyXman> ok, what about the maintoolbar? jcater sugested to make it something like:
<StyXman>   <option name="displaytoolbar" value="false"/>
<StyXman> what I think is that options will be then difficult to build inside.
<StyXman> I mean, the parser buils some kind of object that will become either a mtb or the menu.
<StyXman> (he actually suggested this:)
<StyXman>   <option name="displaytoolbar" value="false"/>
<StyXman>   <option name="displaymenubar" value="false"/>
<StyXman> instead, I was thinking in things like 
<StyXman>   <maintoolbar enabled="true"/>
<dneighbo> i would say it depends on how its used
<dneighbo> if the tool bar is a new 'widget' than can be used any where it should be <maintoolbar
<dneighbo> if it is merely part of the 'form' and you modifying it
<dneighbo> it should be an 'option'
<siesel> if it should be switched off in allways, why not making it a command line option or an option in gnue.conf or both
<siesel>  /off in allways/ off allways/
<siesel> ls
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Action: Chipaca notes StyXman has problems with his hardware
<Chipaca> that is his *computer*'s hardware
<Chipaca> before people go off on a tangent
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Action: StyXman hates flaky hw.
<jcater> StyXman: my question to that is why is the parser building a toolbar?
<StyXman> ok, be it an option.
<jcater> that was a question, not a statement
<StyXman> I'm convinced :)
Action: Chipaca puts down the bat
<StyXman> ok, but as a form attrib or in its own tag?
<siesel> jcater: should zip-by-state.grd work? I've corrected all fieldnames and changed xml-ns from jcater.test1 to GNUe:Reports:SimpleTabulation. The only way to make it don't crash is to remove one section command.
<StyXman> I mean, <form mtb="true"> or <option mtb="yes">?
<StyXman> remember: mtb is a fixed widget, the one you alredy have.
<StyXman> custom tb will come soon.
<Chipaca> I think if it is an attribute of the form, it should be an attribute of <form>
Action: StyXman thinks the same
<jcater> siesel: no, I'm working on that now... master/detail issues
<jcater> I would think as an option tag
<jcater> as maintoolbar is UI specific
<jcater> i.e., it won't be common to all forms
<jcater> but that's just mho
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<Chipaca> hmm, jcater has a point
<Chipaca> it should be in something like <?wx thing>
<siesel> jcater: thx.
<StyXman> a hint to the ui?
<Chipaca> StyXman: a Processing Instruction
<Chipaca> StyXman: that's where you put instructions for the applications that parse the xml file
<StyXman> Chipaca: I'm just interpreting.
<Chipaca> we'd have to define the target name
<Chipaca> s/parse/use/
<Chipaca> PI    ::=    '<?' PITarget (S (Char* - (Char* '?>' Char*)))? '?>'
<jcater> err, I didn't mean go that far
<Chipaca> where PITarget is a name (i.e. [a-zA-Z][a-zA-Z0-9]*)
<jcater> I was simply voting for <option>
<Chipaca> StyXman's box died again
<jcater> since the value didn't affect the form behavior
<jcater> and doesn't always make sense
<Chipaca> jcater: but wouldn't it in effect be a processing instruction?
<jcater> one could look at it that way
<jcater> but GParser doesn't support processing instructions
<Chipaca> jcater: point
<jcater> nor does designer
<jamest> i was hoping to allow the parser to extend a preset menu/toolbar
<jamest> i think i started a GMenu class as the start of this
<jamest> in common
Action: jcater is getting a headache
<jamest> so that the gfd and/or triggers could alter menu items/item state on the fly
<jamest> anyway back to the gride
<jamest> er
<jamest> grind
<Chipaca> jamest: altering the state on the fly is important throughout, not only for menu/mtb
<jamest> ???????
<Chipaca> jamest: I don't mean to improve your headache :) but things like adding textboxes dynamically would make some stuff easier
<jcater> I was the one with the headache
<Chipaca> jcater: condolences
<jcater> well, in fairness, I'm sure jamest has one too :)
<jamest> no
<jcater> oh, nevermind
<jamest> high blood pressure and stress issues here
<jamest> but head feels fine
<jcater> ah, that's good news
<jcater> we need your head
<jamest> except for the voices 
<Chipaca> and the goats?
<jcater> what you do with the rest of your body is your business
Action: jamest looks at his almost completed webcam setup
<jamest> awwww darn
<jamest> and I wanted to share
<dneighbo> what are everyone's take on 'united' linux or whatever they are claling it
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<StyXman_> I'm kinda back
<StyXman_> so? what was the final desition?
<StyXman_> (which)
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<StyXman_> bye bye, clone.
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<StyXman> Chipaca: hit the power swtich...
<StyXman> I mean, tur it on!
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<Chipaca> StyXman: ?
<StyXman> Chipaca: NM
<StyXman> Chipaca: which was the desition, then? <?wx>? <form mtb="yes">?
<Chipaca> StyXman: no idea 
<Chipaca> StyXman: let me context-switch back in
<StyXman> ack
<Chipaca> StyXman: <option thing> seems to be the preferred way
<StyXman> :(
<Chipaca> StyXman: but IMHO <form mtb=foo> is the way to go
<StyXman> ok, master says, /me does.
<StyXman> yes, I prefer that one
<StyXman> why not? I ask. I guess it's been discussed, but I want to know.
<StyXman> *gimme a reason...*
<StyXman> switching to ml
<StyXman> Chipaca: can you confirm gnu-info@gnue.org is the proper dir? 
<StyXman> (addr)
<Chipaca> I used gnue-dev@gnu.org
<StyXman> ha, yes, that one
<StyXman> Chipaca: the crioios! go fetch!
<StyXman> (please!)
<Chipaca> StyXman: OK
Action: Chipaca grumbles
Action: Chipaca will go and buy a self
<StyXman> Chipaca: you have my patch somewhere I can reach?
<Chipaca>  /var/spool/john
<StyXman> yeah, chipacas would be great, except for the price.
<StyXman> Chipaca: ack
<StyXman> Chipaca: you mean, /var/spool/*mail*/john?
Nick change: Chipaca -> Brainfart
<Brainfart> no
Nick change: Brainfart -> Chipaca
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<sledge_> hi all
<StyXman> sledge_: hihi
<StyXman> Chipaca: then?
<StyXman> where to?
<sledge_> does reports require a database call or can i use database-less reports? 
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Action: StyXman wonders where's my patch...
<stbain> run out of Nicoderm CQ?
<Chipaca> StyXman: did you look on http://microsoft.com/patches ?
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<StyXman> Chipaca: yes, but where should be a files there's a nice page that I can't view with anything but IE. (ok, I *guess* that's beatiful)
<StyXman> does gnue-info ml have an archive?
<jcater> StyXman: what do you need?
<StyXman> jcater: my patch... :-/ I lost the machine where I have it.
<jcater> check your inbox
<StyXman> my inbox is also down... or you *just* sent it?
<jcater> I just sent it
<StyXman> yes, you sent it. zanx
<chillywilly> sup niggies
<StyXman> chillywilly: nothing mentionable.
<chillywilly> why you always talking about me when I am not around?
<chillywilly> why is you trippin'?!?
Action: chillywilly wrestles jcater to the floor and drools on him
<chillywilly> that's about the only sure thing about the nick chillywilly....it is filled with controversy and infamy
<jcater> wadidido?
<StyXman> chillywilly: oh, I better run away. and hit him once in my name...
<StyXman> oh, shit, he heard that :)
<chillywilly> [13:08:44] <jcater> dneighbo: better yet: search for "lyx docbook debian" and chillywilly's infamous email is on second page :)
<chillywilly> busted
<chillywilly> j/k
<jcater> now, chillywilly, I equally insult you to your face and behind your back
<jcater> so you can't complain
<chillywilly> anyway, I kidding
<chillywilly> jcater: yep, I love you too
<chillywilly> brb
Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-away
<dneighbo> you lie jcater , you insult him WAY more to his face
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> reports master/detail is SOOOOO fscked yo
<jcater> up
Action: jcater is fixing it though
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> i have forms to test it on
<dneighbo> er reports
<jcater> To get the subtotal to work, I always have to have the NEXT record loaded as well as the current record
<jcater> that fscks up the auto-loading of the detail sources
<jcater> but I'm getting there, darn it!
Action: Chipaca has the feeling master/detail in general (and not only in reports) is slightly twisted
<Chipaca> in gnue that is
<jcater> eh?
Action: Chipaca isn't actually proposing a solution, you'll note
<jcater> I love our solution
<jcater> it just bit me with my lookahead 
<jcater> which was a hack in and of itself
<dneighbo> the master/detail i think works rather well is far more advanced than most things
<dneighbo> if you think it has issues now....
<dneighbo> hahaha i remember pre-common
<dneighbo> and post-new datasources
<dneighbo> both of which were well 'fun' to test for jcater and jamest :)
Action: Chipaca reservers judgement until he can do more than have a feeling about the code
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Action: dneighbo thinks you need to put you face in more boobs^H^H^H^H^H bread, and then come back :)
Nick change: cw-away -> chillywilly
<StyXman> some people in this side of the channel says that boobs are way larger. ok, I admit that the boobs I was thinking about were the size of a chipaca :)
<chillywilly> master-detail means that a record refers to another via a key right?
<chillywilly> er, a table
<Chipaca> StyXman: tais-toi
<chillywilly> similar to a master-detail relationship in an ERD?
<StyXman> chillywilly: yes, that's what we understand by master-detail.
<StyXman> ok, that's all for today. see you soon.
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<dneighbo> Chipaca what distro do you guys run?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: sid
<chillywilly> mmmm, may new favorite soda is vanilla coke
<jcater> I'm a Long Island person
<chillywilly> eh?
<jcater> Iced Tea
<chillywilly> that's not soda
<Chipaca> Greased Monkey
<dneighbo> greased monkey?
Action: dneighbo needs to visit argentina soon
<dneighbo> drinks named greased monkey and bread that looks like tits, sounds like my kind of country
<dneighbo> on a hot day iced tea or lemonade will do right jcater ;)
<dneighbo> from mike's cool beverage stand
<chillywilly> bah
<Chipaca> dneighbo: where are you from?
<jcater> dneighbo: absolutely
Action: chillywilly doesn't really drink alcohol
<jcater> chillywilly?
<jcater> how can you not really drink alcohol
<jcater> either you do or you don't
<jcater> or your in denial
<chillywilly> because I don't believe in getting drunk
<Chipaca> neither do I, specially not that methanol stuff
<dneighbo> Chipaca : mars
<chillywilly> to have a good time
<jcater> chillywilly: there's a difference between drinking and getting drunk
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<chillywilly> that's why I said I don't really do it as it seems people only do it for that reaso
<chillywilly> n
<jcater> not true
<chillywilly> and I'm not about that
<jcater> some ppl drink to get laid
<jcater> not me
<jcater> but some do
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> but you don't live in WI
<chillywilly> there's nothign to do but drink
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> I drink to improve my coding skills
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> GParser was written with Mike's help
<chillywilly> well I have Mike Knoblock at my disposal
<chillywilly> does that count?
Action: Chipaca is coding a bit of Perl to purify his soul
<chillywilly> Mike Knoblock == crazymike
<jcater> Chipaca: you infidel!!!
<chillywilly> Chipaca: you are sinning against God
<chillywilly> anyway...
<chillywilly> perl is the work of the devil
<chillywilly> Larry Wall ;)
<jcater> perl rocks my socks
<jcater> but only after wringing them thru a harsh washboard
<jcater> and hanging them out to dry
<chillywilly> eeek
<Chipaca> I find perl very easy to use for doing in-place editing
<chillywilly> perl licks balls yo
Action: Chipaca considers trying in python
<yogurt2unge> dneighbo: "fernet con coca" is better than "Greased Monkey"
<Chipaca> is there something like perl's File::MMagic, i.e. do something like 'file', i.e. guess mimetype by content?
<yogurt2unge> see you soon......
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<chillywilly> try #python you may get a faster answer
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: chillywilly would answer f he knew
<chillywilly> s/f/if
<jcater> dneighbo: I *think* master/detail in reports is ready for primetime
<jcater> or at least a primetime beating
<Chipaca> l8r all
<chillywilly> wooo
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Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
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Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:05:53)
<jcater> ok, boys and girls
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/prerelease/
<jcater> round 2
<siesel> great.
<chillywilly> googly moogly
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<chillywilly> hey when't the release jcater?
<chillywilly> when's
<jcater> dunno
<jcater> depends on how many critical bugs y'all find in my prereleases :)(
<chillywilly> are you guys shooting for a time?
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> I'm shooting for tomorrow
<chillywilly> probably next week some time?
<jcater> but we'll see
<chillywilly> really
<chillywilly> cool
<jcater> well, at least tagged
<jcater> maybe not Win32 binaries and announcements yet
<jcater> but at least tagged
<chillywilly> which day is it that derek like's to release on Sunday?
<dneighbo> chillywilly im not picky anymore :)
<chillywilly> heh
<dneighbo> i prefer to do our freshmeat 'announcements' on diff days
<dneighbo> so say we have forms, reports, common, designer ready
<chillywilly> k
<dneighbo> i like to do one a day for maximum exposure
<dneighbo> but on our website and announce list would do them all as one
<dneighbo> jcater : re, mdean's emails maybe DCL will be ready for this weekend too and we can carpool and have an all out GNUe release :)
<chillywilly> appserver too?
<dneighbo> yes appserver too actually
<chillywilly> yea, seems we could release that thing too ;)
Action: dneighbo runs up stairs
<jcater> is it ready?
<chillywilly> er, I mean we could let it escape
<dneighbo> jcater: pretty close
<chillywilly> jcater: it does read/write
<dneighbo> they cleaned up the install docs and such the other day
<dneighbo> and it seems to have the functionality they said it would have
<chillywilly> jcater: no GConditions though or introspection
<dneighbo> i.e. you can read/write data with it
<jcater> damn
<chillywilly> no real security either
<jcater> if geas is releasing 0.0.1 now
<dneighbo> i think its a worthy 0.0.1 or 0.1.0 or whatever release
<jcater> I should've released reports 0.0.1 a year ago
<dneighbo> jcater: actually you should have :)
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> as i used that mailmerge almost that long ago
<jcater> dneighbo: I was serious
<jcater> that wasn't dogging geas in any way
Action: chillywilly just thiinks you all are jealous because appserver has a cool acronym like geas ;)
<jcater> well, I personally prefer appserver over geas
<jcater> but whatever :)
<chillywilly> pronounced 'geeeze'
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> GNUe Reporting and Information Transformation System
<jcater> grits
<chillywilly> cause that's what your reaction to any appserver talk is
<chillywilly> geeeze, not this shit again
<chillywilly> :-O
<chillywilly> just teasing
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> actually grits is a really good acronym
<jcater> as Reports is actually those things
<chillywilly> too hillbilly for me
<jcater> and "grits" is a good analogy for the code structure
<jcater> -- all mushy
<chillywilly> heh
<jcater> \
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<chillywilly> wb jcater
<chillywilly> what's the ASCII value for octal 134?
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> rofl
<chillywilly> seriously
<dneighbo> i pronounce geas as gee ass
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> :(
<jcater> backslash
<chillywilly> ok
<dneighbo> but i think the developers should be called geasers
<chillywilly> oh duh
<dneighbo> pronounced geezer's
<chillywilly> reinhard and neilt certainly fit the bill
Action: chillywilly runs
<dneighbo> the old geas should have been called labryinth
<dneighbo> GNUe Labrynith
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<chillywilly> why?
Action: chillywilly actually has code in the old geas
<chillywilly> woooo
<chillywilly> those were the days :P
<chillywilly> HEH
<jcater> dneighbo: you see my GRITS acronym?
<chillywilly> how many bits are in an octal digit?
<chillywilly> damn I am rusty
<chillywilly> guess I haven't done any embedded systems in eons
<sledge_> 3 bits perhaps
<sledge_> 2^3 = 8
<chillywilly> ja
<sledge_> i don't know either, i use my knowledge of combinatorics ...
<sledge_> btw, i like "gnue labyrinth" :)
<dneighbo> jcater: i liked that one too
<dneighbo> the old 'kiss my grits' would apply :)
<dneighbo> chillywilly you suck
<dneighbo> as now im gonna have to stop by the store and try to get some vanilla coke
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<sledge_> disgusting
<chillywilly> hehe :)
<chillywilly> you don't like it?
<chillywilly> vanilla coke is good
<chillywilly> crazymike doesn't like it either
<sledge_> its color has some reminescence to certain human fluids
<chillywilly> and his business alone keeps coke in business, imho
<chillywilly> sledge_: heh, what about pepsi?
<sledge_> "slurm" ;-)
<chillywilly> well I am a pepsi drinker too, but O love vanilla coke
<chillywilly> s/O/I
<jcater> pepsi reminds me of a 95 yr old dude w/spiked purple hair
<jcater> really old guy trying to be cool once again :)
<sledge_> btw, our company keep the german coffee industry alive :)
<sledge_> s/keep/keeps/
<chillywilly> sorry jc, but up here we don't refer to it as getting a "coke", we call it soda...live with it
<sledge_> lol
<jcater> Fortune Small Business a few months ago had a cover story: "Krispie Kreme - Today's Richest Franchise"
Action: jcater was thinking, "yeah, I bet they are!"
<chillywilly> thanks yo jcater!
<chillywilly> s/yo/to
<chillywilly> headlline: "Kripy Kremes Extends Most Valuable Customer Award to fat guy named Jason Cater"
<chillywilly> "he can eat his weight in donuts!"
<sledge_> that must be love
<chillywilly> "his buisness alone has made all the difference in the world for us"
<chillywilly> "I love thiiis guuuuy!" -- KK president
<sledge_> btw, anything new (except lyx docs, jcater :) in cvs that i could complain about?
<chillywilly> you go sledge_
<sledge_> i go?
<chillywilly> er, I was meaning to provide support in your quaest of lyx doc harassment
<sledge_> ah
<sledge_> thx
<chillywilly> but anyway
<sledge_> hey, my cvs update shows activity in reports ...
<chillywilly> if some nice guy would just check int the .txt version then I don't care if they write the docs in M$ werd
<chillywilly> sledge_: jcater is about to let it escape
<chillywilly> (er, release ;) )
<sledge_> reports doesn't work
<chillywilly> rtfm
<chillywilly> ;P
<sledge_> hey, why do i *have* to use a <sources> section
<sledge_> i don't *want* to use a <sources> section
<sledge_> i want a form without database access.
<chillywilly> why do you want that?
<sledge_> because i don't have a database server here and i don't want to install one.
<chillywilly> tough
<chillywilly> install one anyway
<sledge_> maybe some business just wants to send a message with the current date and some customer-specific text. such a report (sent via fax or mail) wouldn't need db access.
<chillywilly> or just setup remote access to an existing one
<sledge_> i will just wait for my new pc
<chillywilly> where would they be generating the report from?
<sledge_> they might want to use reports as a separate tool
<sledge_> so they pipe grd's generated by some other program into reports
<sledge_> btw, did i tell you that php sucks?
<sledge_> what the hell are "navigable widgets"?
<jcater> btw
<jcater> xforms is LGPL
<jcater> SO LYX IS FREE, DAMMIT
<jcater> :)
<sledge_> suck me into the rabits hole
<sledge_> :)
<jcater> btw, the Text and PDF versions of the docs are in my prereleases tarballs
<sledge_> xforms has been proprietary for quite a long time
<sledge_> calm down. 
<sledge_> in the long run, there is no way around a single document format
<jcater> sure
<jcater> and I vote for LyX now
<jcater> :)
<sledge_> but i'm quite happy to see docs at all, even though i can't read them
<jcater> it will spit out LaTex, PDF, Postscript, DOCBOOK, RTf, etc :)
<sledge_> that's what docbook does as well :)
<jcater> auew
<jcater> sure
<jcater> but LyX spits out docbook
<jcater> does docbook output lyx?
<chillywilly> xforms isn'y LGPL'd
<sledge_> docbook outputs latex which can be imported into lyx
<sledge_> do you really want to rely on gui tools?
<jcater> I don't want to program docs
<jcater> I can say that for sure
<sledge_> that's a very good argument for forcing a single program upon everyones throats
<sledge_> s/upon/down/
<jcater> no one's forcing anything
<jcater> LyX is just LaTeX after all
<jcater> just as hand editable as docbook
<sledge_> latex? i don't want to program docs
<chillywilly> not it's not
<jcater> neither do I
<chillywilly> but let's just leave this alone
<chillywilly> I am sick of it
<jcater> you give me a gui for docbook (other than LyX)
<jcater> and I'll switch to docbook
<chillywilly> weenies use guis ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<sledge_> i give up on that
<chillywilly> Forms Library is not public domain. It is copyright by T.C. Zhao and Mark Overmars, and others, with all published and unpublished rights reserved. However, permission to use for non-commercial and not-for-profit purposes is granted. You may not use xforms commercially (including in-house and contract/consulting use) without contacting (xforms@world.std.com) for a license arrangement. Use of xforms for the sole purpose of running a 
<chillywilly> ally available free software that requires it is not considered a commercial use, even in a commercial setting.
<chillywilly> You may not "bundle" and distribute this software with commercial systems without prior consent of the authors. Permission to distribute this software with other free software that requires it, including Linux CD distribution, is granted. Further, permission to re-package the software is granted.
<sledge_> so gnue uses a proprietary format
<jcater> http://bob.usuhs.mil/mailserv/list-archives/xforms-archive/0146.html
<jcater> and it's not a proprietary format
<jcater> it's tex
<chillywilly> lyx is not latex
<chillywilly> you have to ecport to latex
<chillywilly> export
<jcater> vi a file sometime
<jcater> and tell me what you see
<sledge_> i know very well how lyx docs look like, because it's the only way to read some gnue docs
<chillywilly> sure it is very similar looking but you cannot include a lyx document straight out into your latex document it's int he FAQ
<jcater> sledge_: lyx files seem as readable to me as docbook files
<chillywilly> and I would rather emacs -nw it ;)
<jcater> touche1
<jcater> touche`
<chillywilly> jcater: but you don't read the docbook source
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> you do db2html or something
<chillywilly> and then read it
<jcater> chillywilly: did you miss the whole docbook vs lyx fucking argument
<sledge_> ... as readable to *you* as docbook files
<jcater> WE COULD NOT GET DOCBOOK TOOLS TO WORK UNDER DEBIAN
<sledge_> they look like ancient chinese to me
<jcater> after months and months of wasted trying
<chillywilly> HOW DO YOU THINK I BUILD MINE
<jcater> we gave up and went back to coding
<sledge_> i don't get it
<Remosi> chillywilly: HIRED A BUILDER?
<sledge_> docbook works perfectly well on the debian machines at work
<chillywilly> oh yes
<Remosi> :)
<jcater> we seriously spent a helluva lot of time trying to get it to work under debian
<jcater> maybe they cleaned the packages up
<jcater> I dunno
<sledge_> strange
<jcater> but we wated a lot of time
<jcater> that's why we started doing it in LyX
<jcater> we honestly tried docbook
<sledge_> yeah okay, i see the point
<jcater> and it was more effort than worth
<chillywilly> I thought the whole argument was jamest couldn't get it to work on Solaris
<jcater> solaris?
<jcater> no
<jcater> he doesn't code on a  solaris machine
<jcater> he has a solaris machine to test with
<jcater> (and his users are on solaris)
<jcater> but his dev machine at home and work were debian
<sledge_> i'm disappointed that docbook didn't work for you on debian, this is extremely mysterious. that was surely some nondeterministic software failure
<sledge_> a so-called heisenbug
<jcater> but it happened to more than just me
<jcater> or jamest
<chillywilly> this builds on my machine gnue/appserver/doc/geasarch.sgml, fyi
<jcater> and like I've said all along
<chillywilly> granted it si freakin' empty ;)
<jcater> we'll take submitted docs in any format
<chillywilly> s/si/is
<jcater> even MS Word
<jcater> but we don't exactly receive many :)
<chillywilly> but that shouldn't be the format in cvs
<chillywilly> whatever why are we talking about this
<chillywilly> I don't care
Action: chillywilly blames sledge_
<jcater> nor do I
<sledge_> i would be entirely happy with a txt file that is updated alongside its source
<jcater> if anyone want to read the docs
<chillywilly> so would I but I have to beg for it ;)
<jcater> I'm begging ppl to test the prereleases
<jcater> so this should be motivation to actually download them
<sledge_> can i get pregnant from a prerelease? if not, i might try them (i won't have much time next week)
<jcater> sledge_: use adequate protection
<jcater> and if things get too exciting
<jcater> pull out
<sledge_> i will do my best to stumble over a bug which only happens on my machine *g*
<chillywilly> hmmmm, so when is lyx going to use the free xforms?
<chillywilly> so I can get it in my debian
<jcater> when is debian gonna open back up?
<sledge_> lyx 1.2.0 is out, and it is intended to support qt2
<chillywilly> jcater: what?
<chillywilly> ew
Action: jcater is anxiously awaiting several updates after the freeze
<sledge_> btw, did i tell you that php sucks?
<chillywilly> jcater: bah, just use sid
<chillywilly> yes
<sledge_> chillywilly: lyx has taken 2 years to move to gui independence. what a waste of resources.
<chillywilly> I don't care
<jcater> sledge_: I'd hate to know what you think about GNUe then :)
<sledge_> that's a different story
<chillywilly> I just want to be able to install it without adding non-free section
<chillywilly> I wonder if 1.2.0 compiles with qt
<chillywilly> and works
<chillywilly> bah, compiling sucks
<chillywilly> ;P
<sledge_> lyx could have simply moved to a good ui lib and concentrated on new features.
<chillywilly> so could gnue forms, but they didn't
<sledge_> gnue will have to be usable on a palm or a mobile phone, lyx will not. apples and peaches.
<chillywilly> yea, I know
<chillywilly> since you put it that way...I think I do see your point
<chillywilly> oh well
<chillywilly> what's done is done
<chillywilly> wow, 1.2.0 was just released
<chillywilly> like yesterday
<jcater> if I had my way, docs would be done either in plain text or Abiword :)
<sledge_> Abiword is word processing, what does that have to do with documentation?
<chillywilly> maybe I can read lys stuff after all
<chillywilly> lyx
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> (well since yesterday)
<jcater> I will refrain from answering that
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> jcater: plz
<chillywilly> I wonder if formats are compatible....muwhahahhaha latex my ass
<Remosi> what you wear on your ass is your business 
Action: Remosi shudders thinking of a cw in latex
<chillywilly> Older versions of LyX cannot
<chillywilly> read documents saved with LyX 1.2.0.
<jcater> Remosi: rofl
<sledge_> i propose we move all gnue docs to lyx 1.2 *eg* *duck*
<Remosi> chillywilly: lyx can export to latex
<chillywilly> Remosi: yea, so...if people actually did that there would be no complaints ;)
<chillywilly> s/would/would've
Nick change: Remosi -> Isomer
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Action: chillywilly proposes using docbook and building on a machine that can build them...frell.dyndns.org can be spared for such a purprose ;)
<sledge_> damn, it's 3:20am and i got to get up early
<sledge_> good night
<chillywilly> night
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<chillywilly> so what version(s) of lyx do you and jamest use jcater?
<jcater> um
<jcater> whatever's in woody
<chillywilly> 1.1.5 and 1.1.6 are compatible woith 1.2.0
<jcater> 1.1.6 iirc
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> what version of xforms i LGPL'd?
<chillywilly> s/i/is
<chillywilly> As of LyX version 1.2.0, you will need to have Xforms library and
<chillywilly> header version 0.88 or 0.89. Version 0.89.6 is the one which works
<chillywilly> best, but the old stable 0.88.1 version is still supported. On some
<chillywilly> systems, such as linux ELF, there are shared library versions of the
<chillywilly> Xforms library, which require an installation step to configure the
<chillywilly> system
<chillywilly> of course lyx does not depend on a non-free version of xforms yet as 1.0.0 hasn't been released
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<chillywilly> s/does not/does
<ajmitch> :)
Action: chillywilly rm -rf's lyx-1.2.0
Action: ajmitch rm -rf's chillywilly
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<jcater> wow
<jcater> it worked
<ajmitch> jcater: how's the release shaping up?
<jcater> swell, I guess
<ajmitch> hmm, chillywilly was rambling for quite a bit today
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<ajmitch> hi esands, dneighbo
CTCP VERSION:  from chillywilly (chillywilly!~danielb@mke-65-29-142-117.wi.rr.com) to #gnuenterprise
<jcater> chillywilly: wtf you doing to me?
<esands> dneighbo:  I noted in the irc logs a couple days back you need some help creating the debs.  I can probably do some work on that in a week or so.  I'm not a debian maintainer, but I've worked with the debian build system
<esands> ajmitch: hey
Action: chillywilly is playing with irc commands again
<jcater> oh
<jcater> ok
<ajmitch> esands: ah, another debian fan ;)
<esands> Yes, for a while. Debian 1.2 or so
<chillywilly> seems lots of people like irssi
<chillywilly> hmmm, GNU/Linuc, FreeBSD, SunOS, and Winders...interesting array of OSen
<chillywilly> Linux
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<dneighbo> ello
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/lausanne.pdf
<dneighbo> you really want to speak with nickr, jbailey and ajmitch re: debians
<ajmitch> yeah
<dneighbo> jcater: i was going to call to rent that place but i couldnt find the area code
<ajmitch> hmm, /me has to learn forms - how do i get something on a form (eg a button), to load another form?
<jcater> 901
<dneighbo> do i have to pay first month rent + 250 on move in?
<dneighbo> or just the 250
<jcater> that isn't the lease
<jcater> only a flyer :)
<dneighbo> i know
<jcater> expect at least a basic GNUe Rental Management app soon :)
<dneighbo> im trying to help you improve it :)
<jcater> ok
<dneighbo> im asking questions that are unanswered by looking at the flyer that someone would probably want to know up front
<jcater> oh
<dneighbo> i.e. if from out of town area code 
<jcater> fair enough
<dneighbo> and what is the move in cost (out of pocket) for me
<jcater> althoug this isn't phoenix
<jcater> (everything even close to memphis is 901 :)
<dneighbo> generally here they say $900 move in 
<dneighbo> or such on apartments
<jcater> deposit?
<dneighbo> generally its an accumulation of things
<ajmitch> in which doc shoudl i RTFM? the usersguide?
<dneighbo> here for leases its common for first and last month rent
<dneighbo> plus a 'cleaning deposit'
<jcater> ah
<jcater> $100 cleaning deposit (non-refundable)
<jcater> for pets
<jcater> sounds good :)
<esands> the debian/ stuff in the cvs is not upto date right?
<jcater> better than $100 fee
<dneighbo> the cleaning deposit generally runs 100 - 500 depending on the leasee
<ajmitch> esands: probably not
<esands> eg. Package: python-gnue-forms
<jcater> esands: definitely not
<dneighbo> also here its common to disclose who will pay the utilities
<esands> ajmitch: where the upto date debian/* stuff?
<dneighbo> once place we were at the water was covered and we just payed electric/gas
<dneighbo> and at an apartment they paid everything
<dneighbo> but generally the norm is occupant pays all utilities
<esands> actually I guess its easy enough to pull it from the deb-src files.
<dneighbo> btw: that is a trick, to keep the waterbill in your name (as its generally very cheap)
<dneighbo> and then you can claim as residence for insurance and other items (car registration and such)
<jcater> hmm
<dneighbo> if your primary residence has higher rates for such things
<dneighbo> as usually the water is provided by the city, and the city will accept a water bill in your name as proof of residence for many services :)
<ajmitch> esands: so you're going to go ahead & package this then?
<dneighbo> esands: no please dont, jbailey said he really didnt like the way it was laid out (old packages)
<esands> ajmitch:  I could do it.  Not this week.
<dneighbo> i believe he had started to look at it, but then started dcl packages
<dneighbo> which ajmitch if you could pretty pretty pretty pretty please be our maintainer for dcl
<dneighbo> we are having to issue a release this week :)
<ajmitch> dneighbo: but iirc jbailey was doing debs for that, and became maintainer
<dneighbo> yes he is 
<dneighbo> i meant contact him pick up where he left off 
<dneighbo> and be the guy that makes them and feeds them to jbailey :
<dneighbo> )
<ajmitch> hmm, is that wise? jbailey has much mroe experience than i
<esands> anyway the offer is open.  If anyone needs some help with packaging the debs I can get on it.
<dneighbo> i think he said he was almost done but got caught up iwth life
<dneighbo> if you could finish them up 
<dneighbo> and then everytime we release tweak as necessary
<dneighbo> that would be great
<dneighbo> as he is swamped
<ajmitch> yeah, jbailey got hitched recently...
<ajmitch> i guess that woudl cut into his time ;)
<esands> I'm sure it would
<esands> dneighbo: you talking at me or ajmitch?
<dneighbo> ajmitch: 
<dneighbo> about DCL packages
<dneighbo> not gnue packages
<esands> oh
<dneighbo> on gnue packages i dont know if anything has officially been started
<dneighbo> but i would check with nickr and jbailey first incase they have started
<esands> Ok, I'll do that
<esands> got their emails?
<dneighbo> jbailey@gnu.org nick@fargus.net
Action: ajmitch would like to help with packaging as well
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<ajmitch> wb esands ;)
Action: dneighbo whips down a prelease to test, so back off
<dneighbo> jcater: you here?
<dneighbo> if you try setup.py with py1.5 and py2.x for common it tries to use py1.5
<dneighbo> #!/usr/bin/env python
<dneighbo> i assume is why
<dneighbo> but if i just type python in shell it launches 2.1
<dneighbo> is this a python thing?
<dneighbo> hmm maybe not
<dneighbo> different bug
<dneighbo> dneighbo@aegagrus:~/gnuetest/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre2$ python2.1 setup.py install
<dneighbo> Setup requires that python's distutils be
<dneighbo> installed.  You can get a copy of it from
<dneighbo> http://www.python.org/sigs/distutils-sig/
<dneighbo>     
<dneighbo> dneighbo@aegagrus:~/gnuetest/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre2$ 
<ajmitch> hrmm
<ajmitch> crack-laden
<ajmitch> [ajmitch @ ajmitch debian] ls -la /usr/bin/python
<ajmitch> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            9 Apr 22 12:13 /usr/bin/python -> python2.1*
<dneighbo> i wonder if 2.1 doesnt have distutils
<dneighbo> as if i runt python
<dneighbo> and do import distutils it fails
<dneighbo> grr wait i think on debian its still a sep package
<jcater> here
<jcater> dneighbo: get python-dev
<jcater> :(
<jcater> have no idea why that's not part of python
<jcater> err, python = the main python deb :)
<dneighbo> python2.1-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (v2.1)
<dneighbo> jcater: its a debian packaging thing
<jcater> hmm
<dneighbo> i.e. it would violate packaging rules to put it in the python deb
<jcater> does that mean we depend on python-dev ?
<jcater> if we use stuff from their standard library
<ajmitch> that would be annoying
<dneighbo> um
<ajmitch> ok, there are some mails flying round wrt gnue packaging
<dneighbo> i dont know
<dneighbo> i think they consider distutils as 'special'
<dneighbo> more a 'developers' tool
<dneighbo> than a standard library
<ajmitch> between the 4 of us (jbailey, nickr, esand, & myself), i'm sure we'll get GNUe stuff packaged soon :)
<dneighbo> running build_scripts
<dneighbo> creating build/scripts
<dneighbo> error: file 'scripts/gnuedtd' does not exist
<dneighbo> dneighbo@aegagrus:~/gnuetest/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre2$ 
<dneighbo> want me to file bugs for these jcater or just tell you here
<jcater> gah!
<ajmitch> where do mere users file bugs, btw?
<dneighbo> productname-support@gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> forms-support@gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> designer-support@gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> etc etc etc etc
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> jcater-support@gnuenterprise.org
<ajmitch> they get auto-filed in DCL?
<dneighbo> yes
<jcater> only send Mike patches to that last address, tho
<ajmitch> nice ;)
Action: ajmitch hates that
<ajmitch> trying to access dcl on the gnue server
<ajmitch> get an error connecting to 127.0.0.1
<ajmitch> if i miss the / on the end
<dneighbo> jcater: there isnt even a scripts dir in the tar ball
<dneighbo> you want me to patch this stuff or submit bugs or....
<jcater> wtf!?!?!?!?
Action: dneighbo is on limited testing time so sorry if seem impatient
<jcater> if you can patch, please do
<dneighbo> dneighbo@aegagrus:~/gnuetest/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre2$ ls
<dneighbo> AUTHORS    PKG-INFO          build  gnue_sys.py   setup.py
<dneighbo> ChangeLog  README            doc    images        setupext
<dneighbo> INSTALL    README.databases  etc    setup.cfg     site_config.cfg
<dneighbo> NEWS       TODO              gnue   setup.cfg.in  src
<dneighbo> dneighbo@aegagrus:~/gnuetest/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre2$ 
<dneighbo> should that directory and file be included?
<dneighbo> or were you not wanting to include it
<jcater> um
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> me thinks it should be include
<jcater> d
<dneighbo> um gulp i guess  you would want that dir :)
<jcater> but not sure why distutils didn't
Action: jcater truly, truly hates distutils
<ajmitch> it's better than auto* voodoo
<jcater> that it is
<jcater> but still... :)
<ajmitch> yay, staroffice will be able to be used free by schools
<dneighbo> grr been a long time since i touched distutils
<ajmitch> it's still proprietary, but not so bad as MS office ;)
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I just don't understand
<jcater> the GNUe-Forms-... archive includes its client/ dir
<jcater> but why wouldn't GNUe-Common include its scripts dir (which is the same thing)
<dneighbo> ok this is just wierd
<dneighbo> a setup.py install gave that error
<dneighbo> but a setup.py build
<dneighbo> then a setup.py install
<dneighbo> worked
<dneighbo> no errors
<dneighbo> ah fsck
<dneighbo> that was from cvs tree
<dneighbo> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<dneighbo> ok its the tarball that is the issue
<dneighbo> i think i see the fix but i dont remember how to make distutils make the tar balls
<dneighbo> any hints
<jcater> I got it
<jcater> last release we commented out the scripts = ['scripts/gnuedtd'] 
<jcater> line
<jcater> as end users won't use that anyway
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> bdist
<dneighbo> wook
<ajmitch> hmm, so where has nickr been lately?
<dneighbo> jcater: ok so you have fixed?
<dneighbo> and checked in
<jcater> yeah
<dneighbo> and new tarball up
<jcater> posted pre3 now
<dneighbo> ok cool
<jcater> ok
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<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/prerelease/GNUe-Common-0.3.0-pre3.tar.gz
<Maniac> greetings ajmitch
<ajmitch> how are you, Maniac?
<Maniac> good
<dneighbo> ok all installed but reports
<dneighbo>   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/distutils/cmd.py", line 112, in ensure_finalized
<dneighbo>     self.finalize_options()
<dneighbo>   File "./setup.py", line 126, in finalize_options
<dneighbo>     gnue_env = \
<dneighbo> KeyError: install_lib
<dneighbo> aegagrus:/home/dneighbo/gnuetest/GNUe-Reports-0.0.1-pre2# 
<dneighbo> are last lines from reports install
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> does it do that with
<jcater> setup.py build + setup.py install
<jcater> or only with setup.py install
<dneighbo> intro.gfd works
<dneighbo> i only tried install
<dneighbo> let me twist designer real quick and then i will retry
<dneighbo> im told i have 15 minutes of testing left
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> didnt the object inspector used to have images in its tree view?
<jcater> um
<jcater> yeah
Nick change: Maniac -> Maniac-[yawa]
Action: jcater tries to remember if we had to comment that out cause it crashed on some platforms ???
<dneighbo> if i try to Debug->Run intro.gfd from designer i get the following:
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/forms/GFForm.py", line 675, in dumpXML
<dneighbo> DB000:     return GObj.dumpXML(self, GFParser.getXMLelements(), treeDump, gap)
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/GObjects.py", line 238, in dumpXML
<dneighbo> DB000:     xmlnamespaces=xmlnamespaces)
<dneighbo> DB000: TypeError: dumpXML() got an unexpected keyword argument 'xmlnamespaces'
<dneighbo> other than that precursory designer looks to open close ok 
<jcater> does it save ok?
<jcater> hmm
<dneighbo> i dont know
<jcater> ok
<jcater> it was an issue with any form with triggers
<dneighbo> i cant get postgres to work correctly
<dneighbo> and its pissing me off as its ikilling time
Action: jcater fixed
<ajmitch> so how does reports link in with forms at the moment? can a user open & produce a report from a form (via triggers)?
<jcater> ajmitch: sure, using a system call :)
<jcater> but they don't integrate just yet :(
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<dneighbo> bah there postgres take that
<ajmitch> jcater: ah i see :)
<dneighbo> ok data forms work (roughly tested)
Action: ajmitch is wondering if using appserver is the best way to do what ajmitch needs :)
<dneighbo> and no i couldnt save it jcater
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I fixed that problem
<ajmitch> which is: data entry for up to 18 gaming machines, calculated returns based on the previous weeks entry
Action: jcater is surprised it hasn't surfaced before today
<dneighbo> on reports 
<dneighbo> both build and install fail with same error
<jcater> hrm
<dneighbo> jcater: i wasnt testing before today :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<dneighbo> i dont have my laptop booted that has my gauntlet forms
<dneighbo> but have done some test forms and they seem to work so far
<dneighbo> i will test more after wifey time
<ajmitch> you should put them online as a forms test suite :)
<dneighbo> and hopefully clean up the samples as the process
<dneighbo> for now i have to run
<dneighbo> bbs
<ajmitch> cya
<dneighbo> jcater: if you fix anything please when done build new pre releases and post
<dneighbo> email me at derek@gnue.org if you do
<jcater> k
<dneighbo> and i will test them
<ajmitch> jcater: in designer, property inspector - i can't just start typing when a cell is highlighted, as the first char is lost to focus the entry widget
Action: ajmitch recalls having to fix that in his app
<chillywilly> jcater: you up?
<jcater> ja
<jcater> you feel the need to harrass someone?
<ajmitch> hello chillywilly
<chillywilly> nope, I feel the need to break your prerelease ;)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: go ahead & try
<chillywilly> :P
<ajmitch> you'll find that it's flawless, rock solid, which not a bug in sight :)
Action: jcater is in the process of uploading round 3 :)
<jcater> -pre3 series, that is
<jcater> why?
<jcater> what did you find?
<chillywilly> nothing, just teasing
<jcater> ah
<chillywilly> well I do want to run things to help test
Action: ajmitch is playing with designer, can't view database stuff at the moment
<chillywilly> see if the form that I made will actually work because it didn't work with cvs
<chillywilly> you ever fix that bug with ints?
<ajmitch> you've made a form?
<chillywilly> yes, when helping jamest test some stuff
<chillywilly> why?
<ajmitch> oh, thought it was for that TRIO crack
<jcater> ok
<jcater> round 3 is uploaded
<chillywilly> well I'll get there eventually ;)
<jcater> at the regular venue
<chillywilly> wooo
Action: ajmitch is attempting to build a form with designer
<ajmitch> jcater: is the schema navigator meant to work ok?
<jcater> ajmitch: select File | Connect To...
<jcater> and login 
<ajmitch> jcater: i did
<jcater> oh
<jcater> what backend?
<ajmitch> mysql
<jcater> hmm
<ajmitch> but i'd already tried the schema navigator before that
Action: chillywilly cleans out any gnue installs
<chillywilly> obfuscation:/usr/lib/python2.1# rm -r gnue
<chillywilly> :P
Action: jcater hasn't tested much with mysql
<jcater> but it does work
<jcater> with at least Oracle and PG SQL
<jcater> must be something wierd w/MySQL 
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> wassup?
Action: ajmitch exits & tries again
<jcater> err, with our MySQL dbdriver, that is
<chillywilly> eeek
<chillywilly> good job ajmitch ;)
<chillywilly> you found a bug
<ajmitch> chillywilly: don't be so sure
<ajmitch> ah well, we'll try & make this release a good one ;)
<ajmitch> designer is so slow on here, /me blames wxpython
<ajmitch> ok, if i login first, then select the db connection in the schema navigator, it works fine
dres_ (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise.
dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<ajmitch> i still can't close those windows without going via the menu
jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-193-024.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "must run"
<chillywilly> heh
<ajmitch> poor fella
<ajmitch> getting swamped by bugreports by clueless newbies
<chillywilly> we're not clueless newbies
<ajmitch> i am
<chillywilly> doh
<chillywilly>  File "./setup.py", line 127, in finalize_options
<chillywilly>     install_prefix = dict['prefix'][1]
<chillywilly> KeyError: prefix
<chillywilly> reports doesn't want to install
<ajmitch> fix it then
<chillywilly> I don't know dick about distutils
<ajmitch> you're the python guru
<chillywilly> hah!
<chillywilly> you're more of a python guru than I
<ajmitch> rofl
<chillywilly> that wasn't meant to be funny ;)
Action: chillywilly wishes he just didn't rm -r ~/gnue
<chillywilly> for the simple fact that I have a connections.conf file all setup there
<chillywilly> er, had
<chillywilly> oh well
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: chillywilly hacks on back up again
<chillywilly> s/on/one
Action: ajmitch shoudl try & use postgres at some stage
<chillywilly> crap my form went away too now ;)
<chillywilly> oh well it was simple enough to recreate with designer
Action: ajmitch is trying to hack together a UI with designer
<ajmitch> just wondering the best way to enter data for a week, where there will be between 3 & 18 machines
<chillywilly> cool my littlw form works
<chillywilly> little
Action: chillywilly saved data
<ajmitch> the main prob i have is that this might best be done using appserver
<ajmitch> but the software needs to be installed on windows boxes without a DB (which'll require me to write a simple DB driver)
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> appserver doesn't do introspection though
<chillywilly> kinda jard to make a nice form then
<chillywilly> er, hard
<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> I got an error
<chillywilly> I entered too many digits for a varchar(30) it seems
<ajmitch> i know it doesn't do introspection
<ajmitch> but i need to be able to enter a week's data, and have it calculate results based on the previous week
<ajmitch> dunno how best to do that in 2-tier alone
<chillywilly> hmmm, restarting gfclient with my form it doesn't pull data in anymore
<chillywilly> well thay bites
<chillywilly> that
--- Fri May 31 2002