[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> DB001: [DBdriver:62] Postgresql database driver initializing
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFBlock: Init Phase 1
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFEntry: Init Phase 1
<chillywilly> DB007: [GDataSource:167] Field value implicitly referenced
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFEntry: Init Phase 1
<chillywilly> DB007: [GDataSource:167] Field something implicitly referenced
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFLabel: Init Phase 1
[00:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFDataSource: Init Phase 2
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFForm: Init Phase 3
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:330]  WHERE ((1 = 0))
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:420] SELECT count(*) FROM somedumbtable WHERE ((1 = 0))
<chillywilly> DB007: [DBdriver:396] Implicit Fields: {'value': '', 'something': ''}
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:330]  WHERE ((1 = 0))
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:413] SELECT value,something FROM somedumbtable WHERE ((1 = 0))
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:142] Field names set to ['value', 'something']
<chillywilly> DB005: [DBdriver:146] ResultSet created
<chillywilly> DB007: [GDataObjects:392] Inserting a blank record
<chillywilly> DB005: [GDataObjects:478] Master record changed; Notifying Detail Objects
<chillywilly> DB003: [GFEvent:100] Unknown Event: updateENTRY 
[00:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> DB010: [GFTrigger:83] No triggers to fire
[00:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> DB006: [GObjects:92] GFDataSource: Init Phase 3
<chillywilly> hmmm
<ajmitch> don't flood!
<chillywilly> sssh you
<chillywilly> I think it might be that trigger thing that is the problem
<chillywilly> I dunno
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<ajmitch> wb
<chillywilly> hmmm
Action: chillywilly runs
<chillywilly> weird
Action: chillywilly is trying irssi
<chillywilly> brb
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Action: ajmitch tries to design a simple DB schema
Action: chillywilly needs to change the channel window fonts
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<ajmitch> got to design some schema where a site has a certain number of machines, and each machine has some data history, how best to model?
<ajmitch> since each machine has some data that does not change (name, serial number, etc), but some data that is entered every week or 4 weeks
Action: ajmitch is a simpleton, this should be easy
<chillywilly> I would suggest readin a socument on data modeling and some things on normalization
<chillywilly> er, document
<ajmitch> you're no help
<chillywilly> I have some links if you want
Action: chillywilly is no db design guru
Action: ajmitch goes back to forms
<chillywilly> make a table with those fields
<chillywilly> you want it so that you can add rows eaily, but you don't want it so you have to add new columns
<chillywilly> easily
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<chillywilly> bah, I don't like that client
Action: dneighbo is away: slumbering midget, liable to eat non moving red objects now sleeping
<chillywilly> lol
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<ajmitch> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello ajmitch
<chillywilly> hey hey
Action: chillywilly will sleep now
<chillywilly> g'night
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<ajmitch> hi jamest
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<StyXman> hello
<jamest> hello
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<siesel> hi gnue
<ajmitch> hi hi siesel
<siesel> hi ajmitch
Action: ajmitch was just watching world cup game
Action: ajmitch heads off to bed
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<dneighbo> whoooo hoooo senegal beats france
<dneighbo> how great is that !
<ajmitch> very good win :)
<dneighbo> ajmitch you suck, you are in like same timezone as the cup
<ajmitch> france just couldn't get any of those corner kicks in 
<ajmitch> not quite, but close ;)
<dneighbo> game started at 4:25am here
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> that would be a pain
<dneighbo> no kidding
<dneighbo> tomorrow i really want to see Germany vs Saudi but it has same start time
Action: dneighbo is debating if i want to record it or get up that early on a saturday
<dneighbo> i suppose i shouldnt complain too much though as some of the times are so whacked they are good :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<dneighbo> like argentina vs nigeria is at 22:25 :)
<dneighbo> which is about what time i go into watch tv anyhow
<ajmitch> not so bad
Action: ajmitch is learning how to use forms & designer now :)
<dneighbo> im sorry
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> fwiw we do double your salary if you actually use the product
<ajmitch> still trying to decide the best way to implement what i want
<dneighbo> lets see 0 * 2 raises you to $0/hr
<ajmitch> which is enter a few values from 3-18 gaming machines, each week
<ajmitch> and then calculate value to bank for each machine (based on previous readings), and total that for the week
<ajmitch> and then be able to print off a report for the week
<ajmitch> all to be done on windows clients, with no installed DB, and possibly no net connection ;)
Action: ajmitch might just skip doing that, and hook reports into the python app which has been written for it
<dneighbo> generally i would say 'phase it'
<dneighbo> if current app has no reports
<dneighbo> then use gnue reports to start
<dneighbo> i.e. write your flatfile driver for common
<dneighbo> and make your report and start there
<dneighbo> then look at replacing app with forms
<dneighbo> or something
<ajmitch> currently there's a python app which i wrote, using wxpython
<ajmitch> printing is pretty poor in it
<ajmitch> i don't really think it needs to be replaced with forms, but would be an interesting exercise
<StyXman> hey, don forget Argentina Nigeria this sunday!
<siesel> l8r
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<StyXman> bye
Action: ajmitch thinks argentina will probably win that one
<ajmitch> StyXman: you are doing PAPO, right?
<dneighbo> ajmitch : i dont know about that those african teams seem pretty hot right now
<dneighbo> watch out for nigeria and cameroon
<dneighbo> or is cameroon not here this year 
<ajmitch> yeah, that's true
Action: ajmitch doesn't follow it that much
<dneighbo> in fact it think nigeria beat senegal in qualifying
<dneighbo> but senegal beat cameroon 
<dneighbo> or something like that
<dneighbo> all i know is if argentina looses to nigeria it will not be a happy day in argentina
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> as much as i dislike the play of argentina and their stars (mostly hatred for the maradonna years)
<ajmitch> i'm guessing it won't be a happy day in france at the moment
<dneighbo> their country is such pain, i really want them to win so they can have something to be happy for
<dneighbo> it would be nice for them to bring the cup home
<ajmitch> yes
<dneighbo> although if they make it out of the first round, i suppose that will mean delayed times for papo :)
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<dneighbo> hello chuck
<ajmitch> so what is papo? i haven't seen much info on it apart from on the list
<StyXman> nono, papo will continued its steady progress. with bear, but progress at least.
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<ajmitch> hehe
<yogurt2unge> Hello people from the south......
<StyXman> ajmitch: te contaria...
<ajmitch> hmm, who is the southern-most here?
<ariel_> can someone help me with reports?
<StyXman> uh, we have the southest city in the world, so I suppose we are.
<ajmitch> StyXman: yes, but where in argentina are you?
<StyXman> it's yogurt2unge. too early in the morning for him.
<StyXman> ajmitch: cordoba. almost the bellybutton of the country.
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: ajmitch is in dunedin, NZ, just below 45deg south of the equator
<yogurt2unge> Yes I'm 3 meters at south of StyXman
<ajmitch> hehe
<StyXman> we're just above 35deg. about 500km to the north.
<yogurt2unge> ajmitch: is the souther man in the channel
<ajmitch> ah right
<yogurt2unge> people from Nigeria?
<ajmitch> good night everyone
<StyXman> its late thre, eh?
<yogurt2unge> nigth ajmitch
<StyXman> like 23:45?
<ajmitch> Sat Jun  1 02:13:21 NZST 2002
<StyXman> feow!
<ajmitch> a little later than that :)
Action: ajmitch wanders away from keyboard
<StyXman> wowo, it's saturday already!
<yogurt2unge> Fri May 31 11:14:01 ART 2002 in Argentina
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Action: Yurik wanna change employment
<StyXman> Yurik: why?
<Yurik> StyXman: a lot of reasons :(
<Yurik> StyXman: disagreement in technical and ideological questions and lack of money :-(
<dneighbo> ariel_ whats up with reports?
<StyXman> ow. and you have alternatives?
Action: Yurik has less than 1 cent in pocket and over than $250 of active debt :)
<StyXman> want to loose money? try to live in our country.
<Yurik> that is bad
<Yurik> I've heard about Argentina's problems :)
<ariel_> it seems that setup.py does'nt install the adapters
<StyXman> your money becomes 1/3 in a snap of time.
<Yurik> that was in Ukraine about ten years ago. hyper inflation
<Yurik> salaries were measured in millions, tens of millions
<StyXman> yeah, I still have a 1.000.000 bill.
Action: Yurik remembers his parents had salary about $18 millions :)
<Yurik> oops, not $, of coursE :)))
<Yurik> that was coupons that time 
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<ariel_> i have also a couple of questions on forms
Action: Yurik wanna be definitely out of money problems :) 
<ariel_> how do you set up a trigger to run another form?
Action: Yurik is thinking what to do (first, stop spam to #gnuenterprise :)
<ariel_> the sample in location (that calls runform() )  does'nt work.
<ariel_> i tried:
<ariel_> import commands
<ariel_> getstatusoutput( ... name of the form ...) 
<ariel_> but also does'nt work.
<ariel_> dneighbo: are you there?
<dneighbo> ariel_ : on the reports side of the fence im not sure what you mean by not installing the adapters
<dneighbo> i would rather trouble shoot as im trying to do X and get error message Y
<dneighbo> the locations sample is quite plausibly out of date in relation to new trigger support
<dneighbo> jamest would be best one to ask on the new syntax
<ariel_> when i run grrun i get: import error
<dneighbo> it is certainly doable, but i would have to go digging to find
<dneighbo> can you paste grrun error here (last 5 or 10 lines)
<ariel_> no modules named adapters.file.stdout (or something similar)
<ariel_> i sibolically linked the adapters subdirectory of reports under gnue under site-packages and it worked.
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<ariel_> *
<ariel_> ImportError: No module named adapters.destination.file.stdout
<ariel_> i have to go. i'll try to connect later from home.
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<jcater> hrm
<jcater> I wish he'd pasted the actual errors
<jcater> as line numbers would've been important
<jcater> s/important/helpful
<dneighbo> yes agree
<dneighbo> WAY too often people cant get things to work and start the symlink game
<dneighbo> i have never understood this
<dneighbo> as almost everytime it only 'masks' the real problem
<dneighbo> i.e. it gets them over first hurdle but cause destruction later
<dneighbo> especially when its things like libfoo.so.4 required
<jcater> yeah
<dneighbo> and libfoo.so.1 exists or such
<jcater> as I can't recreate his problem :(
<dneighbo> i was busy :(
<jcater> me too
Action: dneighbo goes to get pre releases and bang on them more
<jcater> ppl can be so impatient in irc :(
<dneighbo> jcater what does it take to make windows 'releases'
<dneighbo> as if we can generate somewhat easily i can probalby test here today
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<dneighbo> jcater: i know you are knee deep so im just submitting issues via dcl
<dneighbo> let me know if you need clarification on any of them
<jcater> dneighbo: re windows releases
<jcater> nothing short of an act of god :)
<jcater> j/k
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<jcater> will try to do win32 crap soon
<dneighbo> no problem lets stay focused on linux
<dneighbo> submitting tons of stuff for reports i dont have cvs so cant fix here
<dneighbo> bascially the tarball is missing entire filters dir
<dneighbo> and all documentation
<dneighbo> as well as all .in files
<dneighbo> Ticket #45 shoudl spell it out
<jcater> no no no
<jcater> you can only submit praise
<jcater> not problems
<jcater> ?!?!?
<jcater> :)
Action: dneighbo wishes i understood distutils enough to quickly fix myself and then i could submit patch instead
<jamest> that's easy to fix
<jamest> RTFM!
<jamest> :)
<jamest> of course, if dneighbo does that he'll flood distutils authors with bug reports instead of us
<jamest> ooooo, that's a good thing!
<jcater> cool!
<jcater> do it!
[10:58] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<dneighbo> its sad i really do submit bugs to way too many projects
<dneighbo> withing 5 minutes of downloading openoffice 1.0 i already filed 2 or 3 bugs
<dneighbo> i have an outstanding bug on mozilla that no one can seem to fix ableit they ahve closed it 4 times already only to have to reopen it after i test it :)
<dneighbo> and dont get me started on gnome applications
<dneighbo> like abiword, evolution and anything ximian touches
<dneighbo> as you see their stuff doesnt have 'bugs'
<dneighbo> it has 'features' we implemented on purpose, or dont ever want to implement
<jamest> it have neighbor induced features
<dneighbo> btw: gnue is has by far been the best about fixing issue (but im biased)
<dneighbo> galeon is a close second
<jamest> dude
<jamest> that's our motto
<jamest> "Anything to shut him up."
<jamest> it's part of our quality thru annoyance program
<jamest> j/k
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> well on the galeon thing it was funny
<dneighbo> i stopped by their IRC
<dneighbo> and said x is busted
<dneighbo> and one guy got all huffy and said submit via xyz
<dneighbo> and another guy said hey i can recreate that im fixing now
<dneighbo> and said oh y is busted too
<dneighbo> and he said damn you are right will fix that
<dneighbo> and the one guy said submit the bug
<dneighbo> and gave me a url
<dneighbo> my response was
<dneighbo> 'poor bastard, you are doomed now'
<dneighbo> i think i submitted about 20 bugs in a 2 minute period
<dneighbo> the poor boy that was doing the 'fixing'
<dneighbo> screamed 'stop please'
<dneighbo> and then smacked the guy that gave me the url and said dont do that anymore :)
<jamest> screamed? in IRC? damn, i'm impressed
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<jamest> i bet he dcc'd you an mp3 file of his pain
<Yurik> chillywilly: hi
<jcater>  /scream stop it!
<jcater> is that how it works?
<chillywilly> howdy
<chillywilly> don't you guys have jobs to do eh?
<chillywilly> they pay you to chat on irc?
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> it works
<dneighbo> like
Action: dneighbo runs screaming, 'stop it please'
<jcater> chillywilly: yes, they do!
<jcater> they just may not know that
<chillywilly> heheh
Action: chillywilly is off today
<jamest> aren't you off every day?
<jamest> just a little?
<jcater> jamest: I think he meant, no work today
<jamest> ah
<jamest> ok
<chillywilly> not anymore than you goat boy
<chillywilly> er, wait at least I am not "on" something...see there's the difference my friend
<chillywilly> atmospheric crack has warped your perceptions
Action: chillywilly puts some cash into his paypal account
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<jcater> paypal account?
Action: jcater steers clear of paypal
<jcater> way clear
<chillywilly> lilo needs cash dude
<chillywilly> to pay his rent as he's out of work and trying to keep OPN going
<chillywilly> http://somegeek.org
<chillywilly> what's wrong with paypal?
Action: chillywilly would like to know
<jcater> I'll explain after lunch
Action: jcater is away: lunch
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> in the meantime I am sending him some money
<chillywilly> despite paypal's evilness
Action: Yurik is away: preparing to depart. home, sweet home. beer, sweet beer
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<dneighbo> paypal suck
<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> because it is non-free software?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> well yes but no
<dneighbo> http://www.paypalsucks.com/
<dneighbo> be enlightened my brethren :)
<dneighbo> basically the biggest knock i have heard is they can 'hold' you money for ANY reason
<dneighbo> and FORCE you to divulge a CRAP LOAD of personal information including bank account numbers etc
<dneighbo> before releasing you money
<dneighbo> if they ever release you the money
<dneighbo> read some of the horror stories
<chillywilly> hmmm, sounds shitty
<dneighbo> jcater: when you return i think version numbers on preleases are wrong
<StyXman> our *release* has number epsilon...
<Chipaca> dneighbo: paypal plays with your version numbers? *horror*
<StyXman> scary.
<dneighbo> hmmm something is funny here, i dont think things installed properly
<drochaid> dneighbo: FUCH!! that was good timing for the paypalsucks site dood ... I was thinking about using them for my business!!!
<chillywilly> bah, I don;t think thos are all legtimate claims
<chillywilly> there's good arguments on each side
<chillywilly> look at the forums
<dneighbo> chillywilly i didnt say one way or another
<dneighbo> but the fact is they have the POWER to screw you
<dneighbo> and frankly for me that is enough to avoid them
<dneighbo> after some time in finance
<dneighbo> if they do say a $1,000,000 in transactions a day
<dneighbo> and they hold all funds minimum 5 days
<chillywilly> everyone who you pay electronically or that has access to your bank account has the potential to screw you
<dneighbo> if they take that money to the 'market' do you understand the profits they can pull in
<chillywilly> my employer has the potential to screw me because I have dorect deposit
<dneighbo> not to mention if they invest bad they can lose your money
<dneighbo> and they are not a BANK so they CAN invest that money legally
<dneighbo> chillywilly : NOT true
<drochaid> chillywilly: but only to a certain level, and if you deal with a company registered as a bank of finacial services business, you have built in protection
<dneighbo> your employer is under LEGAL obligation to pay you in timely manner under US law
<drochaid> the likes of paypal and nochex aren't, so they are not answerable in the same way
<dneighbo> if they dont you can take legal action
<dneighbo> if they paid but the BANK dropped the ball
<dneighbo> the BANK is under LEGAL obligation (via federal regulation) to make good on that payment
<dneighbo> and has federal insurance (FDIC) to back it
<dneighbo> Paypal is under no reall severe legal obligation and even FORCES you to sign i wont sue you agreement to use the service
<dneighbo> so say you sell me a laptop for $2500 and send it via usmail
<dneighbo> i send a paytment for 2500 to paypal
<dneighbo> and paypal sits on that money for two weeks
<dneighbo> and i never get the laptop (its lost in mail)
<dneighbo> and so i say you are a fraud
<dneighbo> and paypal credits me back my money
<dneighbo> and then lo behold next day laptop arrives in teh mail
<dneighbo> you are screwed
<dneighbo> you are out a laptop
<chillywilly> is there an alternative to paypal?
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> real banks
<chillywilly> heh
<dneighbo> i believe wells fargo and bank one over similar payment services
<dneighbo> note im not a fan of banks (and their fees)
<dneighbo> adn im sure that they will COST you more than paypal
<dneighbo> to use
<dneighbo> but is it worth say an extra 1% on all transactions to prevent being totally screwed?
<chillywilly> they are saying on that site that paypal costs more
<dneighbo> http://www.paypalsucks.com/options.shtml
<dneighbo> is a list of options
<chillywilly> alternatives?
<dneighbo> i still think if you are doing a BUSINESS and not personal transactions
<dneighbo> nut up and get a merchant account
<dneighbo> you will do SO much better allowing credit cards as well as ePayments
<chillywilly> I don;t know dick about that I just wanted to help lilo out so that was personal
<chillywilly> how do you get a merchant account?
<dneighbo> several ways
<dneighbo> generally through a bank :)
<dneighbo> http://www.paybyweb.com/mainsite/cc_referrer00151.asp?asrc=nopaypal
<dneighbo> seems interesting
<dneighbo> as it lets you take eChecks as well
<dneighbo> which are pretty sweet
<dneighbo> used to be checks were ripe for fraud
<dneighbo> but now you can use a check almost like an ATM card
<dneighbo> i.e. it posts the check immediately 
<chillywilly> yea
<dneighbo> unlike the take a check and then hope they dont move money out of account before it posts
<drochaid> chillywilly: if you're using it as a merchant account ... worldpay accept both credit and debit cards
<drochaid> but they ain't cheap
<dneighbo> btw: at one time last year was workign with some folks to do merchant stuff for GNUe
<dneighbo> i.e. to support it in GNUe
<dneighbo> it was not free software but they were willing to give us the software for free and set us up for testing and such
<dneighbo> then like a month later they were basically swallowed by red hat and i stopped pursuing it
<chillywilly> why would you stop if redhat got them?
<dneighbo> um htey got busy
<dneighbo> and we got busy
<dneighbo> and they werent as eager to help us anymore or so it seemed
<dneighbo> http://www.mainstreetsoftworks.com/
<dneighbo> was the group
<dneighbo> mainly our biggest issue is they didnt support python
<dneighbo> and since it wasnt open source we couldnt write support and give back to them
<dneighbo> if they are in SF i will try to meet with them to revamp the issue
<dneighbo> as its somethign we need to address
<dneighbo> ToyMan are you here?
<dneighbo> how are you handling this in your ecommerce stuff?
<chillywilly> so the whole point of getting your own merchant account is so you can be in control right?
<dneighbo> well you have more options and more 'rights'
<chillywilly> seems there's lots of fees
<chillywilly> for paybyweb
<dneighbo> example if you only accept paypal you wont get my business and lots of others
<dneighbo> you accept visa/mastercard thats a whole other story
<dneighbo> there are a LOT more visa/mastercard holders than paypal holders
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Action: lilo looks in
Action: lilo just wanted to apologize for being stuck with paypal
<lilo> I haven't had any problems with them personally, though I know some people have
<lilo> I just can't afford anything else
<lilo>  I have a small egold account, but I haven't been able to use it much
<lilo> it seems inconvenient for people
<dneighbo> i think its billpoint that does eBay and i think that was or is wellsfargo
<dneighbo> lilo yeah merchant stuff is expensive
<lilo> dneigbo: and I'm not really a merchant
<dneighbo> and why paypal is so popular despite is issues
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<dneighbo> and to switch to someone else is painful
<lilo> dneighbo: I did one round of fundraising for OPN, we got what we needed and sent it to the lawyer
<lilo> that's moving massively slowly, though the nonprofit has been registered
<dneighbo> as they dont have the market share of paypal so then the users get irrated
<lilo> and now I'm looking for some help, because my back is kind of to the wall
<lilo> but between the two points I haven't used the paypal account at all
<dneighbo> change it to freeprojects.net
<lilo> it's just a name 8)
<dneighbo> only allow projects with free software license
<lilo> the nonprofit is not called openprojects :)
<StyXman> if someone ask for me, well, I'm out to lunc. bbl.
<dneighbo> and approach the FSF for a grant
<lilo> oic dneighbo :)
<dneighbo> and use their non profit services
<dneighbo> i.e. they are a WELL established 501c3
<lilo> well, the nonprofit is already set up, we just need to finish the 501(c)3 application
<dneighbo> and you could set up a 'fund' through them
<lilo> and it's not actually going to be just about software
<lilo> what I have in mind is supporting and nurturing communities that do things *like* what the free software and open source communities do
<lilo> obviously, the best developed community doing that atm is the free software community, so we'll want to support it
<lilo> but the focus is going to be broader
<lilo> somewhat different niche than FSF
<lilo> the example I give is, suppose some group of people decides to design hydroponic equipment for the third world, that can be built cheaply in place
<lilo> so they're all about designing it and providing the designs around the world, getting them where they are needed
<lilo> and they don't especially want to make money at it, which is good, because when you try to make money at a project like that it usually doesn't get done 8)
<lilo> so they're just doing it
<lilo> communities like that would be what we are going to want to support
<lilo> community wireless projects would be another example
<lilo> and clearly free software would be a preeminent example atm 8)
<lilo> so the focus of the nonprofit is going to be a bit broader
<dneighbo> cool
<lilo> not on a single licensing regime or type of creative output, but very much not on things that are (or have become) pay-for-play
<dneighbo> currently where is the expenditure coming into play?
<lilo> at the moment, I'm looking for funds to try not to be out on the street in the next few months, while I finish things up and look for a few initial grants 8)
<lilo> and probably the first thing the nonprofit will do is pay me a salary to work on it full time
<lilo> not the world's biggest salary
<lilo> but something so I am not out on the street
<lilo> I figure to spend some effort on fund raising for the first year or two, and take care of OPN a bit better
<dneighbo> so basically you are looking for seed money currently
<lilo> just having an employer that will *let* me have the time to take care of OPN will help a lot
<dneighbo> not operating costs per say
<lilo> well, our sponsors provide the servers
<lilo> we couldn't afford them
<dneighbo> thats what i mean
<lilo> but sponsors rarely want to provide salaries
<lilo> they like to give you spare bandwidth and server space
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<dneighbo> rightfully so (it much harder to justify)
<lilo> yeah
<lilo> they all have shareholders and investors
Action: chillywilly is going to go get some lunch
<chillywilly> bbiab
Action: chillywilly is away: lunch
<lilo> one of the reasons I had no thought of making this a for-profit though, is that it's hard to justify this stuff to investors
<dneighbo> sounds like you have really one of three choices (as we face this with gnue as well)
<dneighbo> a. get outside investment (this is evil, plus its hard to do) (paypal contributions wont hold long)
<lilo> (yeah, all I am trying to do with the paypal is survive for a bit)
<dneighbo> b. get an employer that has a shared interest, i.e. they pay you to work on things that benefit OPN
<Chipaca> lilo!
<eMeow-v2_> what are you guys talkin' about? :)
Action: eMeow-v2_ wakes u[
<lilo> (the problem there is that employers change goals and motivations on a dime)
<lilo> hiya Chipaca!
<eMeow-v2_> up, that is.
<dneighbo> c. get normal job and slave like pig after hours chasing the dream, until you get to place where a or b can be real
<Chipaca> lilo: the guy in $ trouble is you?
<dneighbo> the problem of course is that doing it (c) means having no life
<lilo> eMeow: I've been looking for some help to not be out on the street in a month or two....it's gotten kind of bad....so we ended up discussing funding here)
<lilo> yah, that's me
<dneighbo> it taking forever and basically it sucks
<lilo> yeah, dneighbo
<lilo> I don't want to spend the rest of my limited lifespan slaving, I want to *do* useful stuff 8)
<eMeow-v2_> lilo: heh, sucks. I can't even use paypal
Action: lilo is one of those strange Save the World guys 8)
<lilo> eMeow: well, the thought is appreciated a lot
<Chipaca> lilo: I'm sorry I can't help you out in that department; you really deserve it
<dneighbo> lilo the key is like that of an artist
<lilo> Chipaca: I *really* appreciate the vote of confidence
<dneighbo> you need to find a benefactor whom believes in your causes
<dneighbo> and funds you
<dneighbo> that of course is much easier said than done :)
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: I believe in the causes, but I don't think I qualify as a benefactor :)
<chillywilly> well if everyone would just give some money now lilo might be able to pay his rent at least ;)
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:18:07)
<jcater> chillywilly: what dneighbo said re paypal
<jcater> and he posted the website I was gonna post :)
<chillywilly>  ok, Ia m going to go to lunch for real now
<chillywilly> yea
<jcater> btw, I wasn't saying don't help lilo because he uses paypal
<chillywilly> I see the points now
<jcater> I was saying be leary of paypal
<dneighbo> my problem is i practice benevolence pretty steadfastly
<chillywilly> yes
<dneighbo> over 15% of my income goes to non profit organizations
<jcater> besides
<jcater> paypal has $150 of my money in limbo
<jcater> for over 2 years
<jcater> and I can't get it resolved
<dneighbo> my problem is, dont take this wrong lilo, is i have a hard time paying someones rent
<dneighbo> if it were going to server hardware or such to me that is different
<jcater> because there's no legal watchdog over them
<chillywilly> dneighbo: what would jesus do?
<dneighbo> but im in position where i would love to see people paid to work on gnue
<lilo> dneighbo: well, I can certainly see your point of view
<lilo> dneighbo: we all have projects that are important to us
<dneighbo> but those working on it are employed (ofr the most part) and sacrifice their free time to try to bring it to reality
<dneighbo> i guess my point is its hard for me to give when i think (c) above is a viable option
<dneighbo> thats not to say the work is not appreciated
<lilo> dneighbo: as far as I am concerned, the only people who should help me out are people who (1) have used the network and want to reward my efforts, (2) have some money, and (3) don't have something they consider a higher priority to spend it on
<dneighbo> in any way shape or form
<dneighbo> and i was seriously debating giving 
<lilo> not falling within one of those three groups, particularly the last one, is perfectly understandable
<lilo> right now the economy is not all that great for a number of us
<lilo> I can certainly understand that people have other priorities
<lilo> uh, we all have to eat, for one thing 8)
<lilo> so please don't sweat it
<lilo> *seriously*
<dneighbo> the thing that makes it hard (and hard for me to give to many free software things) is lack of a plan
<lilo> oh, I have some plans....but yeah, they are a bit informal
<lilo> otoh, talk to me about them and I'll talk your ear off 8)
<dneighbo> i.e. making a donation will help for this month rent but one cant make that a regular thing
<lilo> but again, priorities are essential
<dneighbo> if i knew that x was hapening in a month
<lilo> we have 7,000 users and growing, and some possibility of corporate sponsors and others
<dneighbo> and you just needed to ride it through
<dneighbo> it would be different
<dneighbo> does that make sense?
<lilo> so when we get to formal fundraising we'll probably be in a *bit* better shape
<lilo> atm I just want to survive, and I'm just asking people who appreciate my work and feel they can, to chip in
<chillywilly> so if all those 7000 were to give what they should give to OPN as we all pratically live here then lilo would be fine
<dneighbo> i can understand that
<lilo> regardless, I'll keep working on this as long as I am able to
<dneighbo> well if half gave 1 dollar thats 3500
<dneighbo> i imagine that could cover rent at least?
<lilo> and the last thing I expect is for everybody to be able to help me out
<lilo> yeah, it would cover rent and more
<lilo> but paypal would eat fees like crazy :)
<lilo> I'd get 70% of that
<lilo> which would actually do the trick
<lilo> atm I'm just trying to decide whether we can afford to keep our health insurance
<dneighbo> what if you asked every 'registered' channel (how many are there?)
<chillywilly> ok, bye bye
<chillywilly> good luck lio
<chillywilly> lilo
<chillywilly> we love you
<lilo> thanks chilly
<chillywilly> :)
<lilo> appreciated :)
<dneighbo> if they could please contribut 10 dollars
<lilo> dneighbo: the thing is, I'm limited in what I can reasonably do
<dneighbo> how many channels are there?
<lilo> dneigbo: I can't really quite push that much
<lilo> lot of channels, maybe a few hundred active, reasonably large ones
<lilo> but I'm happy to just wander around and let whoever is willing to help out for now
<lilo> at the moment I just want to survive to do some useful work
<dneighbo> :)
<lilo> a lot of people are in my situation, though, so I don't expect them to be able to help
<lilo> we all do what we can where we can
<lilo> and there are a *lot* of people doing useful work here
<dneighbo> you know how to make debian packages?
<lilo> yah
<lilo> I did some of that at transvirtual
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> maybe i could donate 50 - 100 bucks if you could throw together some GNUe debian packages :)
<lilo> hmmm, the problem is, if I do that, it's kind of pay-for-work
<dneighbo> why?
<lilo> I give you a gift of some work, you give me a gift of some money
<dneighbo> nope
<dneighbo> i give you a gift
<lilo> the IRS gives me the gift of an audit 8)
<lilo> not that there's anything to audit this year 8)
<dneighbo> and you are good free software contributor and contribute to GNUe
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> although i think perhaps others are doing debs already
<lilo> why don't I see if I can do some packaging for you
<lilo> but don't pay me, I think that would make me nervous
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<btami> hi all
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<^chewie> 'lo
<dneighbo> jcater: im having issues with preleases on this box
<dneighbo> they seem to be installing ok
<dneighbo> but i had a workign version here before
<dneighbo> and it seems to be reporting version 0.1.1
<dneighbo> and the toolbar has new icons but not all of them
<dneighbo> so im not sure i have correct version
<dneighbo> i deleted all gfclient gfdesigner files
<dneighbo> and reran setup
<dneighbo> and it created new ones but they have same behavior
<dneighbo> last night all was well, BUT i had never installed GNUe production on that machine before
<dneighbo> any ideas
<jcater> um
<jcater> make sure there's not a /usr/python*/site-packages/gnue directory
<jcater> in previous testing cycles, we had issues w/that
<btami> dneighbo/jcater: may i ask a little bugfix in interbase driver?
<jcater> wassat?
<btami> in DBdriver.py line #208 the fix is: 'name':lower(d[SIG2api.DESCRIPTION_NAME]),
<dneighbo> jcater:
<dneighbo> wright:/home/dneighbo# cd /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/g     
<dneighbo> gdkpixbufmodule.la  gtk.py              gtkhtml.py
<dneighbo> gdkpixbufmodule.so  gtk.pyc             gtkhtml.pyc
<dneighbo> gnome               gtk.pyo             gtkhtml.pyo
<dneighbo> wright:/home/dneighbo# cd /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/g
<dneighbo> and no /usr/python2.1/ dir
<dneighbo> there is /usr/lib/python2.1/gnue/ though
<btami> i forget lower before
<jcater> nix that
<jcater> btami: give me a sec
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:~$ which gfclient
<dneighbo>  /usr/local/bin/gfclient
<jcater> btami: ok, committed
<btami> thanks
<dneighbo> import os
<dneighbo> #import os.path
<dneighbo> import sys
<dneighbo> #######
<dneighbo> # The following variable were set when GNUe was installed
<dneighbo> import os, sys
<dneighbo> sys.path.append('/usr/local/gnue/lib/python')
<dneighbo> INST_GNUE_CONNECTIONS='/usr/local/gnue/etc/connections.conf'
<dneighbo> os.environ['INSTALL_LIB']='/usr/local/gnue/lib/python'
<dneighbo> os.environ['INSTALL_PREFIX']='/usr/local/gnue'
<dneighbo> #######
<dneighbo> if not os.environ.has_key('GNUE_CONNECTIONS'):
<dneighbo>     if os.path.isfile(INST_GNUE_CONNECTIONS):
<dneighbo>         os.environ['GNUE_CONNECTIONS'] = INST_GNUE_CONNECTIONS
<dneighbo>   
<dneighbo> from  gnue.forms.GFClient import *
<dneighbo> if __name__ == '__main__':
<dneighbo>         GFClient().run()
<dneighbo> is the contents basically of /usr/local/bin/gfclient
<jcater> ok
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> did you delete the /usr/lib/python2.1/gnue directory?
<dneighbo> does that mean i should delete
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:/usr/lib/python2.1/gnue$ 
<jcater> and how hmm
<lilo> got pulled away....anyway, I'm not sure whether I would really be helpful doing that packaging, it sounds like you might have what you need?
<jcater> what is in that directory?
<lilo> I'm going to keep trying to hang in here and get stuff done with OPN and the nonprofit
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:/usr/lib/python2.1/gnue$ ls
<dneighbo> __init__.py  __init__.pyc  common  designer  forms
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:/usr/lib/python2.1/gnue$ 
<dneighbo> lilo cool
<lilo> and I appreciate the kind words and the advice
Action: lilo waves and wanders off
<jcater> dneighbo: yeah, please nix that directory
lilo (lilo@staff.opn) left #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> don't know where it came from or why it's there
<btami> dneighbo: you are talkin about a prew, next buttons icons are old in the toolbar ?
<jcater> (must be remnants of a possessed install)
<dneighbo> um that fixed it
<dneighbo> jcater: truth be known i like just copying directory hierarchies at random to different spots on my machine to see if i can get known working applications to fail
<dneighbo> btami : actaully all the icons were correct (i.e. new look)
<dneighbo> just it wsa missing some that were added like first/last
<dneighbo> ah yummy all fixed
<dneighbo> form 1 passed
<dneighbo> form 2 passed
<dneighbo> form 3 passed
<dneighbo> darn this is too much on the roll, time to break out the heavy artillery forms
Action: jcater hides
<dneighbo> ok what gives
<dneighbo> gauntlet_3_die_bitch_die.gfd even passed
<btami> will appserver be released now too ?
<dneighbo> yes i think so
<dneighbo> it is nothing more than a 'good faith' release though
<dneighbo> i.e. it does things and works as advertised for the features given
<dneighbo> but is not overtly useful just yet
<dneighbo> ok jcater need to you to look at something
<btami> on win32 the grpc/GEAS.grpc is not copyed into the shared dir  with setup.py install
<dneighbo> oh btami does firebird support what used to be deemed i think 'local interbase'
<dneighbo> jcater : http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/service_request.png
<dneighbo> notice the extreme font difference on Description: at bottom of form compared to other entry fields
<btami> doesn't IIRC
<dneighbo> i dont recall this happening before
<btami> i'v got an error with appserver script on win32 :)
<dneighbo> appserver-support@gnuenterprise.org fire away :)
<btami> :)
<jcater> dneighbo: that's always happened w/me
Action: jcater thinks it's a wx issue
<jcater> when using a multi-lined text area it seems to ignore our font setting
<dneighbo> ok just verifying its not a 'new' issue
<dneighbo> so its like combo boxes
<dneighbo> untamed wx bugs :)
<dneighbo> wrt fonts and size
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> :(
<dneighbo> shame all wx folks are foriegn or i could meet with them in SF or somethign
<dneighbo> see if we could get things solved
<jcater> am I supposed to be packaging up appserver for this release too?
<dneighbo> um if you can great
<dneighbo> if not it will afll on appserver team
<dneighbo> my impression was siesel had pretty much run tests and should just be a ./setup.py sdist or whatever
<dneighbo> and then put in prerelease dir
<dneighbo> and we push bugs to appserver-support@gnuenterprise.org :)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> they call the executable script 'appserver'
<jcater> I'm not sure if that's a good name to be distributing
<jcater> I mean /usr/local/bin/appserver
<jcater> is a little bit, um, conflicting, maybe :)
<dneighbo> nope bad bab bad
<dneighbo> geas or gappserver
<jamest> oooo
<jamest> it's a GNUe project right?
<jamest> CRappserver
<dneighbo> ?
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo> you are thinking fo the Chillywilly Retro Appserver
<jamest> if only it was easier to name forms in an honest manner like that
<jcater> well, reports is 'grits' (GNUe Reporting and Information Transformation System)
<jcater> so forms can be guido
<dneighbo> guido?
<jcater> 'GNUe User Interface to Data Objects
<dneighbo> what it busts your system at the knees :)
<jcater> exactly :)
<nickr> BAM
Action: dneighbo had that happen once
Action: dneighbo glares in jamest direction
<jcater> and we need our GNUe Universal Transaction Server
<jcater> (guts)
<jcater> guido, guts, and grits
<jcater> all working side-by-side
<dneighbo> nothing like having all your resources consumed by X to piont your machine cries mercy
<jamest> i said honestly
<jcater> I think we should nickname this release the 'otadi' release
<jamest> i can't think of something simple that implies screwed up, unstable, undocumented, mess of code that almost does what we wanted
<jcater> otadi = "Omg, They Actually Downloaded It!"
<jamest> works for me
<jamest> i still think lethargic sloth is a good code release name too
<nickr> guido eats grits, they fill its guts
<dneighbo> GNUe Integrator Really Lame Idiots Edition
<dneighbo> if we are gonna be honest
<dneighbo> its for GIRLIES
<jcater> well
<jcater> instead of guts, have 'Enterprise Advanced Transaction Server'
<jcater> so, guido eats grits
<jcater> would be enough
<dneighbo> um
<dneighbo> guido eats girlie grits
<jcater> girlie guido eats grits
<nickr> just call every part 'YERMOM'
<jcater> or "Girlie Guts" Guido eats Grits
<dneighbo> we could call the meta package
<dneighbo> GNUe Soprano's
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> how do you build the damn docbook docs in appserver into something useful ?!?!?!?
<jcater> and what should the appserver command line be called?
<jcater> geas?
<jcater> gaserve?
<jcater> gappserver?
<jcater> btw, I was seriously asking all these docbook studs here
<jcater> how do I generate PDF or Text versions of the docs in appserver?
<jcater> I need to add that to the sdist of setup.py
<StyXman> hello again. ok, this is the last time I ask. if you tell me something I don't like, I'll what I want :)
<StyXman> what I'm gonna do with mtb and mm?
<jcater> um
<jcater> <option name="displaytoolbar" value="false"/>  <-- What was wrong with that?
<jcater> dneighbo/jamest: any comments?
<StyXman> I know I'm becoming er... uh, pesaado.
<StyXman> I say: if it's a form option, be it a <form> attr.
<StyXman> but I plan to add some attrs to mtb itself. so, I propose a new tag.
<StyXman> even if the attrs are not planed.
<StyXman> (because they're *not* planned :)
<jcater> chillywilly: you around?
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:18:02)
<chillywilly> yep
<StyXman> jit
<jcater> chillywilly: what jade command do I run to generate either pdf or text versions of appserver/doc/geasarch ?
<chillywilly> I do db2xxxx
<chillywilly> but the sgml files are empty
<jcater> ok
<StyXman> ok, <option> tag, then. :-\
<jcater> so that's not directory
<chillywilly> a lot of crap is in outline.txt
<jcater> s/directory/ready
<chillywilly> no
<jcater> ok
<chillywilly> it's just the crack that I have been smoking lately ;)
<chillywilly> well now I am going to go mow the lawn
<chillywilly> :P
Action: chillywilly is away: mow the lawn
<jcater> geas it is, then!
Action: StyXman is unpleasant about the jcater's solution ;)
<StyXman> jcater: so, what BaseClass should I do that can handle both menubars and toolbars?
<StyXman> (I'm starting with GFParser, and just hit that problem)
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<StyXman> no, nultiple inheritance?
<jcater> StyXman: well, what are you trying to accomplish
<jcater> enable/disable the toolbars
<jcater> or customization
<jcater> as those are completely different
<jcater> and if its the latter, jamest has a lot of code in place for that
<jcater> that we need to work with
<jcater> fooey
<Chipaca> kswhat?
<jcater> that was a sneaze
<jcater> hachooooo!
<dneighbo> a. gappserver
<dneighbo> b. db2pdf mailsgmlfile.sgml
<jcater> appserver prerelease at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/prerelease/
<dneighbo> jcater: a chilly sneeze ;)
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<aprono> Is appserver prerelease in cvs?
<StyXman> jcater: no, no customization of the *buttons* on the toolbar, but sat, the toolbar position, direction, etc,
<jcater> hrm
<jcater> um
<jcater> I don't think the forms file is the place for that
<jcater> dneighbo?
<StyXman> or you think that kinda things are not useful?
<jcater> I *personally* think that's more of a gnue.conf setting
<jcater> than a forms file setting
<StyXman> jcater: we want to be able to do what we want with the toolbar and mainmenu from the program.
<StyXman> first, because we don't want the menu to appear at all. yes, that could be an attr in <form> tag.
<StyXman> second, we feel that the toolbar (the navigation part) is too much confusing for the kind of users we will be facin.
<dneighbo> jcater?
<dneighbo> here is my take
<dneighbo> or what i guess i envisioned
<jcater> I think the forms file defines *functionality*
<dneighbo> is that we woudl have base menu
<jcater> not UI
<dneighbo> and base toolbar
<dneighbo> and you could configure those via gnue.conf
<StyXman> so we want it off. as long we discover we can do anything with the toolbar, I started to play wit options, and found som thins very interesting. but omre about that later.
<dneighbo> i.e. what image is displayed and what buttons to show etc
<dneighbo> at form level you could shut them off 
<dneighbo> but then 'custom' menus/toolbars
<dneighbo> woudl be from navigator
<jcater> ok, just wanted to make sure I wasn't alone
<StyXman> jcater: forms file? the .gfd? 
<jcater> StyXman: yes
<dneighbo> and basically would append to the base items
<dneighbo> this might be where jcater/jamest differ from my view
<StyXman> *not UI*? and what are those x="1" y="1" I must write?
<jcater> at the navigator point, I'm not sure
<dneighbo> i definitely do NOT think mneus and tool bars belong in forms files
<dneighbo> forms should be able to 'manipulate' those items but should not generate them
<dneighbo> if that makes sense
<StyXman> uh, why not? we may want our own menubar. so, instead of using the <mainmenu> tag, just use the <[custom?]menu> tag.
Action: StyXman hopes this subject could be closed today.
<StyXman> we want to do *anything* with what we are going to show to our users.
<StyXman> and .conf files, I think, are not the way to program the ui. see that the word I used was program.
<Chipaca> let me give an example
<Chipaca> me are making a billing thing right now
<Chipaca> on the billing screen the toolbar is completely superfluous: you don't want to do 'next record'; you just want to bill stuff.
<Chipaca> but in the same application we might have a 'product inventory' thing, where the toolbar (or its functionality) is needed
<Chipaca> da?
<dneighbo> um as stated
<dneighbo> im not saying cant do custom
<dneighbo> im saying custom belongs (imho) in navigator (.gpd) not in .gfd
<StyXman> .gpd?
<StyXman> OAwhat are those? 
<dneighbo> think of it as a framework and the menu/toolbar are part of the framework and not the form
<dneighbo> so to navigate between different forms you probably would use menus and such
<dneighbo> if you put these in the form
<dneighbo> you would be repeating the menu structure all over which would be a complete nightmare
<dneighbo> StyXman look at gnue/navigator
<StyXman> wow, you use form and panel indistinctively, right?
<^chewie> blah, the acronym YMMV sucks
<StyXman> or you mean *more forms*? 
<dneighbo> currently it does some cool stuff its just not integrated into the 'framework'
<^chewie> ;-)
<dneighbo> more forms
<dneighbo> like you might have say accounting package
<dneighbo> you might have a purchase order form
<dneighbo> a invoice form
<StyXman> ack. so, ... ok, gime some time to dig into navigator.
<dneighbo> etc
<dneighbo> you dont want to have to 'start' a new application for all o fhtose
<dneighbo> you start the accoutning application
<dneighbo> and via buttons or menus you cna change what form you are using
<dneighbo> i strongly urge we disgress on purpose
<StyXman> hmmm, right. we were thinkin on those...
<dneighbo> we feel these feature laden gui's do more harm than good
<dneighbo> so gnue is not trying to be glade where everything is totally tweakable to be pretty and such
<dneighbo> its designed to do hard core business applications
<dneighbo> using things that make it easy
<StyXman> laden==bloat?
<Chipaca> StyXman: laden is oe for loaded
<Chipaca> as in bin loaded
Action: StyXman was about to say something about the actual mtb...
<StyXman> bin laden?
<StyXman> executed?
<StyXman> ok, enought disgression.
<Chipaca> 1 definition found
<Chipaca> From WordNet (r) 1.7 [wn]:
<Chipaca>   laden
<Chipaca>        adj 1: filled with a great quantity; "a tray loaded with dishes";
<Chipaca>               "table laden with food"; "`ladened' is not current
<Chipaca>               usage" [syn: {loaded}, {ladened}]
<Chipaca>        2: burdened psychologically or mentally; "laden with grief";
<Chipaca>           "oppressed by a sense of failure" [syn: {oppressed}]
<Chipaca>        v 1: remove with or as if with a ladle; of liquids [syn: {ladle},
<Chipaca>              {lade}]
<Chipaca>        2: fill or load; "load a car" [syn: {load}, {lade}, {load up}]
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<StyXman> bloat, then.
<StyXman> as in
<StyXman>   bloat
<StyXman>        n : swelling of the rumen or intestinal tract of domestic
<StyXman>            animals caused by excessive gas
<StyXman> A/msg Chipaca to get command output? 
<Chipaca> A/msg StyXman heh! 
<Chipaca> :)
<StyXman> dneighbo: any other sample besides sample.gpd? I just get a window with 3 options, but noen does nothing.
<StyXman> (double click, idiot)
<StyXman> dneighbo: so, based on sample.gpd... the form itself would be at the right, and the form would change once you select something?
<StyXman> anyways, we're not sure this is what we want. actually, we're not sure *what* we want... yet.
<StyXman> but we're sure that no toolbar and MB no menu.
<StyXman> I realize that navigator is very oriented to html.
<StyXman> I mean, easy to implement.
<dneighbo> jcater:
<dneighbo> DB000:     theClass = globals()[typeStr+"Ptr"]
<dneighbo> DB000: KeyError: GFDInstancePtr
<dneighbo> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/designer/Debugger.py", line 76, in closeTrap
<dneighbo> DB000:     object = wxPyTypeCast(eo, 'GFDInstance')
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1614, in wxPyTypeCast
<dneighbo> DB000:     theClass = globals()[typeStr+"Ptr"]
<dneighbo> DB000: KeyError: GFDInstancePtr
<dneighbo> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/designer/Debugger.py", line 76, in closeTrap
<dneighbo> DB000:     object = wxPyTypeCast(eo, 'GFDInstance')
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1614, in wxPyTypeCast
<dneighbo> DB000:     theClass = globals()[typeStr+"Ptr"]
<dneighbo> DB000: KeyError: GFDInstancePtr
<dneighbo> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/local/gnue/lib/python/gnue/designer/Debugger.py", line 76, in closeTrap
<dneighbo> DB000:     object = wxPyTypeCast(eo, 'GFDInstance')
<dneighbo> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/wxPython/wx.py", line 1614, in wxPyTypeCast
<dneighbo> DB000:     theClass = globals()[typeStr+"Ptr"]
<dneighbo> DB000: KeyError: GFDInstancePtr
<dneighbo> DB000: Segmentation fault
<dneighbo> if you do a Debug->Run on a form with data sources
<dneighbo> then try to do a prep query, execute query, you get the above error
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<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I haven't tested Debug -> Run since this time last year :)
<StyXman> SIGSEGV! python! wow...
<StyXman> btami: you asked for the patch. you get it?
<StyXman> (hi)
<btami> yes
<StyXman> ah, ok.
<btami> oh, no
<StyXman> no?
<btami> i got something papo spanish blabla
<btami> jamest/jcate: my mails returned from appserver-request@gnuenterprise.org (Postfix:Command died with status 255)
<jcater> appserver-request? or appserver-support?
<dneighbo> it needs to go to appserver-support@gneutnerprise.org or geas-support@gnuenterprise.org
<btami> sorry, support of course
<jcater> hrm
<dneighbo> spelling gnuenterprise.org correct
<jcater> can you forward the returned mail to info@gnue.org ?
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<btami> yes
<dneighbo> um jcater im pounding designer pretty hard right now (but not wizards)
<dneighbo> im very impressed
<dneighbo> few buglets im finding
<dneighbo> but nothing that im going to mention to hold up a release :)
<dneighbo> other than that debug one
<btami> sended
<jcater> gah
<jcater> that looks like a bug in dcl??
<dneighbo> what does?
<jcater> look at info@gnue.org
<btami> a bug in appserver couses a bug in DCL :)
<dneighbo> yes ouch
<jcater> oh, wait
<jcater> what is the product name in dcl for appserver
<dneighbo> can you send same mail instead to geas-support@gnuenterprise.org
<jcater> "Could not fetch product information for appserver"
<dneighbo> yeah i see that
<dneighbo> remember we created alias for that one
<dneighbo> 5YGEAS GNUe Application Serverreinhard reinhard
<dneighbo> thats our problem
<dneighbo> GEAS is the product short name its matchign on
<dneighbo> so this is a bug in dcl i think (or rather a feature that needs to be added)
<dneighbo> as you cant just 'alias' addresses to products as we have done :)
<dneighbo> btami so answer for right now is geas-support@gnuenterprise.org until we can fix :)
<btami> ok
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<StyXman> hope nothing implrtant was said while I was *off*
<StyXman> (kicked by flaky sw)
<btami> StyXman: please send your patch for me to btami@freemail.hu
<btami> i just want to learn something about new widgets
<StyXman> btami: well, it's not a *new* widget, just a teared off one...
<StyXman> but I'll send it to you anyways. what's good is that is just one widget, so you can see what was changed.
<btami> that's exactly what i want
<StyXman> btami: and any question, don't hesitate to ask.
<btami> i try to implement a wxgrid, but dont know enough gnue
<btami> yet :)
<StyXman> btami: ah, that's interesting. what are you thinking of?
<StyXman> tell you the steps I did?
<btami> yes
<StyXman> first, expand the parser hash @ GFParser.py
<StyXman> second, creae new classes GFThing and UIThing.
<StyXman> third, ... I don't remember. let me do the patch again... 
<btami> the main problem is, how to connect the datasource and the grid
<chillywilly> oh I have a question
<chillywilly> why doesn't forms load the entries in my db?
<chillywilly> it always start out ith a blank record
<btami> prequery=""
<chillywilly> is that how it is supposed to behave without programming any triggers?
<chillywilly> you use prequery?
<chillywilly> <?xml version="1.0"?>
<chillywilly> <!--  GNUe Designer (0.3.0)
<chillywilly>       Saved on: 2002-05-30 23:45:14  -->
<chillywilly> <form height="4" title="Test" width="38">
<chillywilly>   <datasource database="gnue" name="dtsSomedumbtable" table="somedumbtable"/>
<chillywilly>   <page name="pgSomedumbtable">
<chillywilly>     <block datasource="dtssomedumbtable" name="blkSomedumbtable">
<chillywilly>       <entry field="value" name="inpValue" typecast="number" width="10" x="12"
<chillywilly>              y="1"/>
<chillywilly>       <entry field="something" max_length="30" name="inpSomething" width="25"
<chillywilly>              x="12" y="2"/>
<chillywilly>     </block>
<chillywilly>     <label name="lblValue" text="Value:" width="6" x="1" y="1"/>
<chillywilly>     <label name="lblSomething" text="Something:" width="10" x="1" y="2"/>
<chillywilly>   </page>
<chillywilly> </form>
<chillywilly> where should you put that?
<btami> see form/samples/track/forms
<StyXman> btami: ah! great mistery! I didn't made a data-aware widget.
<chillywilly> I see
<btami> chill: it's a datasource attrib
<chillywilly> prequery is an trib of the databsource
<chillywilly> attrib
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> I can use designer to add that attribute right?
<btami> StyXman: making a new data-aware widget a little more compilated
<btami> i think
<jcater> hrm
Action: jcater thinks that would be a style of "block"
<jcater> and not necessarily a widget
<btami> chill: don"t know
<jcater> but that's just mho
<btami> jcater: have you seen wxgrid examples in wxpython?
<btami> what do you think about a real grid in forms?
<chillywilly> ok, used the object editor, clicked the datasource and set prequery to true
<jcater> btami: I would see it as a type of block
<jcater> we have to be *really* careful of what we add
<jcater> as wx is just *one* UI available
<btami> i know
<jcater> I hate making widgets only for wx
<jcater> but I'm thinking if it's a "style" of block
<jcater> then if the UI doesn't support a grid-style thingy
<jcater> it can fall back to a normal block
<jcater> I haven't thought about it too much yet
<jcater> but that's my knee-jerk reaction
<btami> ok
<chillywilly> yes, I got designer to segfault
<chillywilly> wooo
<btami> good night all
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<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/service_request.png
<dneighbo> a much cleaner dcl form that is highly functinoal :)
<jcater> purdy
<dneighbo> jcater: actually i hate it
<dneighbo> i dont like
<dneighbo> labels: field
<dneighbo> i like
<dneighbo> labels
<dneighbo> field
<jamest> lol
<jamest> i complete forgot I changed the icons
<jamest> i looked at that pic and was thinking WTF?!?!
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<StyXman> ok, the patch will be released tomorrow.
<StyXman> see you tomorrow.
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<jamest> l8r
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<^chewie> ahh
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<jcater> for anyone interested, http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/prerelease/ now has binary Win32 snapshots available for testing!!!!
<jcater> on that note, I'm going home
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<siesel> hi all
<jcater> hi
<jcater> siesel: appserver prerelease at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/prerelease/
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<Neil> What can anyone recommend for printing and tracking decent invoices with free software?
<siesel> jcater: Cool. I never thought that the first release of appserver would be that soon.
<jcater> oh
<jcater> I was told it was ready for 0.0.1
<jcater> is it not?
<siesel> hmmm. if we change the ROADMAP a bit it is.
<jcater> Neil: there aren't many good options :(
<jcater> I've been looking at NOLA recently
<jcater> it may serve your needs... not sure
<jcater> it is web-based, though
<siesel> I was talking with reinhard allready about that change (moving GConditions support into appserver v 0.0.2) so its ok.
<jcater> Neil: were you asking about a pre-packaged invoicing system? or were you planning to roll out your own?
<siesel> jcater: is it difficult to create an .exe installer file?
<jcater> after you've done a few, then no
<jcater> I was working on appserver and reports installers tonight
<jcater> I assume that's ok?
<siesel> that's ok, to say the truth I just wanted to test appserver on win98 and not write the installer for it
Action: siesel just hopes to learn how to create debian packages
<Neil> hm
<Neil> looks like I'm going to have to hook something into KSpread
<Neil> thanks anyway
<Neil> heh
<jcater> Neil: GNUe will provide invoicing soon
<Neil> ooh
<jcater> but I assumed you needed a solution that would work for you today
<Neil> jcater: now would be nice, but it's not vital
<jcater> you might want to keep an eye on our development, then
<Neil> I will 
<Neil> I just wish your website were easier to navigate :-)
<Neil> hard to find anything
<Neil> until just now I thougth GNUe was just a news site
<Neil> heh
<jcater> Neil: yes, we do too
<jcater> we actually have someone working on that
<jcater> but, like the rest of us, he's having to fit that into an already busy life
<jcater> :(
<Neil> sure
<Neil> hm
<siesel> chillywilly: did you do any changes to the GComm Proposal recently?
<Neil> ooh
<Neil> not java
<Neil> good good
<jcater> oh, no
<jcater> no java here
<Neil> very good
<Neil> and I like how GNUe is supporting real GUIs and not just html forms
<Neil> I think I've found my final recommendation
<Neil> :-)
<jcater> :)
<jcater> I like your style
<jcater> usually, it's more like "why not java?", "why not web-based?"
<jcater> which, don't get me wrong, I like having web support
<Neil> heh
<jcater> I think web apps are another great tool to have in the toolbox
<jcater> but not the only tool
<Neil> so
<Neil> I guess something I can do now, while I wait for invoices, is see about writing some good old KDE UI
<Neil> :-)
<Neil> I expected to have to write a lot of code to get something I'd be satisifed with
<Neil> so writing only UI is great
<jcater> you'll probably want to look at PyQT
<Neil> yes
<jcater> if you are interested in writing our KDE/QT driver
<Neil> that's likely
<jcater> I use KDE too, but I've just settled with running against GTK libraries
<jcater> but I certainly will welcome a KDE/QT driver :)
<jcater> as will the rest of the developers
<jcater> (but I have a personal interest in it :)
<Neil> heh
<Neil> mmmm
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Action: siesel hates firestarter. He has never used masquerading to cut off the host doing the masquerading from the net :(
<siesel> chillywilly: do you have done any changes to the GComm Proposal recently?
<siesel> jcater: designer 0.3.0 pre3 for windows tells me that it doesn't find xxxx.png file. 
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> ok
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<siesel> jcater: the error occurs only if I just install designer and not forms  
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> ok, thanks
Action: jcater was looking for some clues
<jcater> and that's a biggue :)
<jcater> biggie
<siesel> seems to be that forms has created an gnue.conf and designer has not.
<jcater> hmm
<siesel> and if there is no gnue.conf designer uses the default values for images i.e. png images
Action: siesel tries to increase the difficulty for  natural language parsering irc by not setting commas ;) 
<jcater> as long as you use periods, I'm happy
<jcater> err, at least when there's more than one sentence on the same line
Action: siesel begins to philosophize: what is a sentence? what is a word? when I break the syntax by concatenating two sentences  without adding a period, will it be ONE syntacticl wrong sentence or just a missing period ?
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> to my old high school english teacher, that's defined as an 'F'
<siesel> lol
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> this building process takes much longer on my slow home machine
<jcater> than it does on my Athlon XP 1700 at work
Action: siesel does the windows testing on a Pentium 200Mhz.  :(
<jcater> ouch
<siesel> I can even use KDE 2.2 on that maschine (with some wait states for the user ;) )
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<siesel> jcater: btw. I've added the text from RPC-abstraction.txt to docbook/Proposals/GComm. Should I add you to the authors of GComm too, because you've written RPC-abstraction.txz  
<jcater> nah
<siesel> :( ... really?
<jcater> well, ok
<jcater> doesn't matter to me
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<jcater> ok, new Win32 binaries uploaded
<jcater> at usual place
<ajmitch> morning
<jcater> morning
<jcater> err, evening
<siesel> jcater: which distribution method is standart for setup.py?
<jcater> um
<jcater> ?
<siesel> setup.py sdist ?
<jcater> oh
<jcater> setup.py sdist --formats "tar,zip"
<jcater> is what I use
<jcater> that creates a tar and a zip file
<siesel> I've tried it, but it just doesnt append the doc files. :(
<siesel> its just knows README an nothing else.
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<siesel> jcater: in the appserver distro the whole documentation and the grpc file is missing. 
<siesel> n8t
<jcater> nite
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<jcater> dneighbo: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/icons/
<jcater> or anyone else for that matter
<jcater> waddya think for a starter set
Action: jcater is away: movies
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<dneighbo> jcater: its a good start but im torn
<dneighbo> i love the little 'e' as its good use of the brand
--- Sat Jun  1 2002