[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
Action: derek wonders if i talked everyone away
Action: jcater is back
<esands> derek: the gfd files for the screen avaliable?
<esands> s/the/that/
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/service_request.gfd
<derek> iirc
<derek> poop its not there
<esands> 404
<derek> if you ask me tomorrow i will upload them there or put in cvs
<esands> who's tomorrow? ;)  What TZ you in again?
<derek> i dont have access to it from here or i would do now
<esands> cool.
<derek> ask in 12 hours
<derek> actually let me email me at work to remind me :)
<esands> heh
<esands> probably better, since in 12 hours I'll be still asleep
<derek> darned kiwi's always sleeping
<esands> You guys need to post more sample gfd. Maybe you should create a TWiki site for some interaction there.
<esands> 8P
<jcater> we gladly accept samples :)
Action: ajmitch has no probs with esands' TZ :)
<esands> Personal, I though it was because we where always up before evryone else, and to bed before everyone else.  Being good farmers and all... ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> you want samples like .jpg
<derek> or samples like .gfd
<derek> there are good amount of samples in gnue/forms/samples/ dir
<derek> the problem with samples are data :(
<derek> i.e. its easy to whip up forms, but then making portable schemas and such is kind of a pain
<MicahY> derek: got the screenshot, thanks
<esands> Are any of the examples with triggers up to date?
<derek> i want to make our samples a little easier to install and navigate through
<derek> but it will ahve to wait a bit still
<derek> esands: you have a workign gnue?
<esands> cvs version
Action: ajmitch has a sorta-working gnue, iirc :)
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/codeworks.sql
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/codeworks.gfd
<esands> Been busy for the last 14 days, so maybe not.
<derek> is a sample, it has some issues because postgres is a turd
<ajmitch> you prefer mysql, derek?
<derek> you can add/delete records but cant modify them
<derek> ajmitch: no i think i like sap-db
<derek> though i havent started to abuse it enough to give it full thumbs up just yet
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/service_requests.grd
<derek> is a working report for dcl
<derek> all you have to do is make an rtf file (template) for what you want it to look like using ::fieldname::
<derek> as elements for subsitution and setup the reportfilter
Action: derek is trolling my home dirs for goodies
<derek> in dcl cvs there are gfd's for dcl
<derek> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/dcl_account.png i think is in dcl cvs
<derek> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/dcl_departments.png
<derek> i think is in dcl cvs
<derek> if you like i can upload a sample application i did for the LUG
<derek> its a video management system
<esands> that'll be cool
<derek> uploading now
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<derek> warning its slightly odd as its 'staged'
<derek> i.e. i walked them through things in steps
<derek> started with db
<derek> then made form from wizard
<derek> then modified the db
<derek> then showed them how easy to modify the form to incorporate the change
<derek> so you will see two sql scripts
<derek> a starter one (that loads data)
<derek> and a modification one
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/samples/
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/samples/movies_sql.txt
<derek> creates and loads
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/samples/movie_modification.sql
<derek> adds rating system
<derek> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/samples/movie_db.gfd
<derek> is the form
<esands> sorry, just on the phone
<esands> hassle people about colecting money. usual story. 8)
<derek> well its a sample let me know if you cant get it to work
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<dneighbo> #dcl
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<dneighbo> 30 minutes and counting
<psu> I make it 50 minutes to start of match
<esands> ?
<psu> oh, is that not what you mean?
<psu> ;-)
<dneighbo> thats what i mean
<dneighbo> i have it being 35min as clock here says 10:47
<dneighbo> and the games start 11:25
<dneighbo> er 22:47 and 23:25
<psu> 06:39 here
<dneighbo> hmmm 
Action: dneighbo needs to get my linux box as its supposed to be using mil clock
Action: psu has no idea how accurate his system clock is
<psu> I think i have a timeserver check in there somewhere
<esands>  17:48:07 NZST here on my ntp-timed system
<esands> thanks for those sample dneighbo.  I'll have a browse though them when I get home. 8)
<dneighbo> psu thank you
<dneighbo> i wondered why i felt late to work so much lately
<dneighbo> my linux clock was 8 minutes fast
<dneighbo> it wsa reading 10:53 when it was only 10:47
<dneighbo> i ran ntpdate and it said server not found
Action: dneighbo did dpkg-reconfigure ntpdate
<dneighbo> and i had two servers listed, but both are not responding
<dneighbo> so i added a plethora so it shouldnt happen again :)
<dneighbo> Tue Jun 11 22:49:13 MST 2002
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Action: psu gives dneighbo the pip
<psu> Greenwich Time Signal, that is ;-)
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<MicahY> hey, what's the status on Bayonne and GNUe integration?
<MicahY> is it possible to do forms over a touch tone phone yet?
<MicahY> just curious. :)
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<psu> MicahY: I believe the trad response is "would you like to write a driver?"
<psu> seriously, the architetcure is all there
<psu> as the Forms UI is independant of the Forms client
<psu> so you could write a Forms client for Bayonne
<psu> w/o too much difficulty
<psu> Of course, not all forms are suitbale for phone
Action: psu shudders at thought of big drop down boxes on phone
<psu> "...and key 11,456 for Mr. Zybslaw"
Action: psu is away: getting ready for work
<dneighbo> kind of what psu said
<dneighbo> i think now bayonne supports python (which would have been a hurdle)
<dneighbo> so now its really driver time
<dneighbo> UIbayonne.py here we come
<dneighbo> i have been trying to work with david to get an emulator or a physical card to do testing with
<dneighbo> as that is what it will take to go from here
<dneighbo> funny thing is not less than 5 minutes ago i just sent david an email :)
<dneighbo> 5 minutes psu
<MicahY> ok cool.  I know it's been discussed a long time ago, just wondering if it's been done yet. :)
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<dneighbo> crud he left
Action: dneighbo is away: football hooligan
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<btami> morning all
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<mgedmin> echo hi|wall
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<dneighbo> woooo what matches
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<alga> Morgen
<dneighbo> styxman, yogurt, chipaca and friends my regets go out to you it is truly a sad day in argentina
<dneighbo> hi codeworks team
Action: dneighbo is back (gone 02:00:44)
Action: dneighbo jogs off to bed
<alga> dneighbo: it must look strange, poeple coming to work when you go to sleep
<ajmitch> hi
<alga> or have you already got used to that?
<ajmitch> oh it's quite normal :)
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<mgedmin> http://www.codeworks.lt/~mg/colorize_irc?url=http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/gnue-public.log
<mgedmin> and can we have gnue-public.log.YYYY-MM-DD?
<mgedmin> pretty please
Action: ajmitch is scared ;)
<ajmitch> why so?
<ajmitch> easier to sort?
<alga> 1) sorts nicely
<alga> 2) ISO standard date format
Action: ajmitch uses YYYYMMDD format for some of his stuff
Action: mgedmin finds that finding yesterday's log is quite difficult as it is now
<mgedmin> with ISO 8601 it would simply be the last one
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Action: Isomer agrees with mgedmin once again
Action: ajmitch suggests they change 'set logfile-suffix ".%d%b%Y"' in the eggdrop config if they're still using that
<Isomer> esp since americans think "MM/DD/YY" is the One True Format, where everyone else uses "DD/MM/YY" is the One True Format, and some other people use "-"'s instead of "/"'s and everyone's confused as to which field is where
Action: ajmitch notices that the #dotgnu logs are sorted in order
<esands> definitely.  Annoying sometimes trying to read a few days of irc logs, having to jump all over the place
Action: ajmitch sees that he has almost a year of #dotgnu logs now :)
<ajmitch> what a great waste of space ;)
<ajmitch> du -h ~/.xchat/xchatlogs reports about 240MB tho ;)
Action: ajmitch wonders if he spends a little too much time on irc?
<esands> heh
<ajmitch> that's the problem when you're on #gnome & leave xchat connected
<esands> I went though that phase when UO first came out
<ajmitch> ah
Action: ajmitch notes that the biggest logs by far are #gnome
<Isomer> 285M	/home/perry/.xchat/xchatlogs
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> I'm beating you by uh, 40mb
Action: Isomer remembers the days of 45mb HDD's
<Yurik> du: `/home/yrashk/.xchat/xchatlogs': No such file or directory
Action: ajmitch recalls using drivespace on a 20MB HDD, and speeding i/o up in the process ;)
<Yurik> oops :)
<esands> Those 20Mb drives. Damn they where big
<ajmitch> oh yeah
<esands> 3.25 FDDs.  Wow!
<Isomer> ajmitch: I started on dual 360k's, and eventually added 2 5mb drives!
<ajmitch> wow
Action: ajmitch is a youngun remember ;)
<Isomer> pity I'd never heard of raid
<esands> Almost the same
Action: Yurik remembers old PC clones w/ 2 5" FDDs only
<Isomer> I could have had *real* fun
<ajmitch> hehe
<esands> 1200/75 modem.  
<Isomer> Yurik: this machine was one of those, I just added 2 MFM 5MB HDD's.
<esands> Us oldies. ;)
<Isomer> esands: I had one of 'em too :)
<Isomer> mine did 300baud
Action: ajmitch just turned 20 today
<esands> Yeah, I did that most of the time as well. 
<Isomer> I used to login to BBS's and just "(D)isplay as ASCII" files
<ajmitch> hehe
<Yurik> Isomer: the machine I speaking about was a very weird clone of PC, made in USSR
<Isomer> read them at 300 baud :)
<Isomer> didn't effect your u/l:d/l ratio :)
<esands> I remeber buying my first 2400bps modem for about 500, 11 years ago.  Man it was cool.
<ajmitch> expensive
<esands> Actually maybe it was 13 years. ;)
<esands> Crazy now, cell phones can do 9600.
<Yurik> Isomer: something like XT
<Isomer> Yurik: ahh, the good ol' days of the "clones"
<ajmitch> and us lucky people are limited to 128kbps on dsl
<Isomer> where a "clone" may not even be using a 80x86 processor :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<esands> Isomer: You play loadrunner?  I figure that's the best game I every played. 8)
<Isomer> nah, I was never much of a gamer
Action: ajmitch played quite a bit of civ :)
<esands> XT CGA platform game. 
<Isomer> ajmitch: ahh, yes
<Isomer> still enjoy a good game of FreeCiv :)
Action: ajmitch has freeciv running in the background at the moment
<ajmitch> i certainly prefer a stable OS where i can actually leave a game running for a few weeks ;)
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<ajmitch> hi siesel
<ajmitch> esands, Isomer, either of you on the nzoss list?
Action: Isomer is on NZOSS I think
<esands> nope
<Isomer> or was it EFNZ
<ajmitch> they've just been talking about conferencing software for the AGM
<esands> you should get in there and suggest gnue. ;)
<siesel> hi all, hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> videoconferencing
<Isomer> ah, don't think I've seen that then :)
<ajmitch> some people think an MS solution is the way to go...
<Isomer> hmm, gnome-meeting? :)
<Isomer> shrug
<Isomer> even MS's solution is H.323
<esands> oh. openh323 then I guess
<ajmitch> i think more proprietary windows-only software rather than MS-developed
<Isomer> I Think :)
<ajmitch> but still not a good way to manage an NZOSS AGM ;)
<Isomer> Well true
<Isomer> although I'd suggest specifying the protocol
Action: btami is away: busy
<Isomer> and leaving people to use their own implementations of it
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> but this is for videoconference between main centres
Action: ajmitch wanders off to get depressed (study)
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<ajmitch> sweden won? ;)
<StyXman> ajmitch: don't even mention that.
Action: ajmitch consoles poor StyXman
<StyXman> (yes, they won. well, it was 1-1
<StyXman> (or what's left of him.)
Action: ajmitch gets back to cs study
Action: siesel should wanders off to get depressed too. :(
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<ariel_> hi all
<mgedmin> hi
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<StyXman> jamest: do you know why forms 'drops' all the widgets that would not fit inside the window?
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<Arturas> Hello
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<siesel> hi !
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<chillywilly> herro
<chillywilly> chat-text sucks shit
<chillywilly> xchat-text
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<chillywilly> wake up
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<^chewie> 'lo
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<StyXman> james?
<StyXman> jamest?
<jamest> yes?
<StyXman> ah, good. do you know why forms 'drops' widgets that would be outside the current form?
<jamest> drops?
<StyXman> I trying to add a scrollable widget.
<jamest> ok
<StyXman> yes, dey don appear, even if I resize the from manually (i.e., with the mouse)
<StyXman> s/dey/they/
<StyXman> s/don/thon't/
<StyXman> er, don't
<StyXman> s/from/form/
<StyXman> s/StyXman/asleep guy/
<jamest> ah
<StyXman> any idea?
<jamest> the form size is set at startup time via it's height and width
<StyXman> yes...
<jamest> it doesn't bother to create UI widgets for anything outside that set size
<StyXman> ouch. now that I added (I hope so) a scrollable widget, that shouldn't be the behaviour, right?
<jamest> what sets in the scrollable widget?
<StyXman> what I'm not sure is how to make those widgets to draw in the scrollabel widget canvas.
<jamest> other widgets?
<StyXman> it should...
<jamest> oooo
<jamest> hmmmmm
Action: jamest never considered putting widgets inside a scrollable widget
<StyXman> (we think is a way to achieve 'grids')
<jamest> hmmm
Action: jamest is looking in code
<jamest> ok
<jamest> i think i need to take that back
<StyXman> you want me to do it? I don't care, and I prefer it... can you point me to the correc piece of code?
<jamest> it may be creating the widgets (cause I can't find the code that stops it)
<StyXman> aja.... interesting...
<jamest> a quick way to check is via the cross reference arrays
<jamest> inside the wx UIdriver there is a function _addToCrossRef
<StyXman> yes...
<StyXman> ok, I'll take a look.
<jamest> if that is being called for the widget in question then you know it's getting a wx widget generated
<Arturas> is it possible via trigger to reach properties of the button? (something like 'print block_name.button_name.__properties__.label')
<jamest> Arturas: you could extend the GFButton trigger namespace to give you that cleanly 
<StyXman> ack.
<jamest> no, no
<jamest> it hide that stuff by default IIRC
<jamest> you as a GFObject author expose what you like
<jamest> like in GFEntry.py
<jamest> there is
<jamest>     self._triggerProperties={'readonly':{'set':self.setReadonly,
<jamest>                                          'get':self.getReadonly
<jamest>                                          },
<jamest> which sets up a 
<jamest> entry_name.readonly propery that your can set and get
<Arturas> readonly properties for entries work fine
<Arturas> but label property for button
<Arturas> x, y properties
<Arturas> give error as not defined
<jamest> right
<Arturas> DB000:   File "/home/users/guest/Arturo/gnue-cvs/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GTrigger.py", line 208, in __getattr__
<Arturas> DB000: AttributeError
<Arturas> is it possible to reach them?
<jamest> you'd have to define the properties you want exposed in a construct like above in the GFButton.py file
<jamest> as the namespace attempts to hide everything by default
<Arturas> mhm, thanks
<jamest> so you'd need a self._triggerProperties={'label':{....}},
<jamest> i _think_ 
<jamest> er
<jamest> i _think_  I made a way to quickly set this up for predefined properties
<jamest> but it seems i'm too damn old to remember much past, um, 5 minutes ago 
<jamest> hot damn!
<jamest> i actually documented something!
<jamest> in common/doc/TriggerSpecifications.txt
<jamest> go down to the section labeled
<jamest> ------------------------------------------------
<jamest> James's Notes
<jamest> ------------------------------------------------
<Arturas> thanks! :)
<jamest> it shows the 2 arrays needed to extend objects in the trigger namespace
<jamest> sigh
Action: jamest must return to the slave pit
<StyXman> good luck
<jamest> had a professor tell me yesterday about the twins
<jamest> Mary Kate and Ashley
<jamest> not sure if they are very well known outside side
<jamest> twin girls that had their own show when the were very young
<jamest> played a single character when they were even younger
<jamest> now have own clothing, movies, etc,
<jamest> er s/outside side/outside us
<jamest> anyway
<jamest> they turned 16 recently
<jamest> and have a worth of about one billion US dollars
<StyXman> wow. who is 'us'?
<jamest> us = U.S.A.
<jamest> sorry
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<StyXman> ah...
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<StyXman> hi all you three.
Action: StyXman is gonna rip blade runner... anyone?
Action: StyXman is even gonna encode it...
<StyXman> jamest: the widgets get created, but the ones that 'fall' off window's region are not shown...
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<^chewie> hmm
<jamest> StyXman: then it's probably becuase the UIdriver doesn't resize the container wx widget (panel, window, etc) on a resize
<jamest> the simplest example I can think of setting this up is in the gnue navigator wx driver
<jamest> there is a onsize event that you need to call
<jamest> a resizer function when it occurs
<StyXman> jamest: what's more strange is that the scrolledwidget (that it's a wxScrolledWindow) does not show the scrollbars...
<dneighbo> mgedmin: cool, i wrote something some time ago to do this in python and no one seemed interested it had lots of nifty features
<^chewie> hey
<dneighbo> hi ^chewie
<^chewie> brb
<^chewie> ok, back
Action: ^chewie made a snack run
<^chewie> 4 flights of stairs can take the wind out of ya
<^chewie> especially when you psychologically are prevented from walking up them
<^chewie> don't know what it is, but I MUST run up stairs
<mgedmin> dneighbo: are you talking about irc logs?
<dneighbo> yeah
<dneighbo> there is a way to get them listed way you asked but i forget how
<dneighbo> reinhard could tell you 
<dneighbo> anyone from codeworks still here?
<Arturas> dneighbo: alga, mgedmin
<mgedmin> dneighbo: about that postgresql wart
<mgedmin> I have an idea for a workaround
<mgedmin> problem: formatting numbers like 1.0 breaks queries with NUMERIC, and formatting them like '1.0' breaks updates to INTEGER fields
<mgedmin> solution: format them as '1' when the fractional part is zero
<mgedmin> i.e. ("'%s'" % number).replace(".0'", "")
<mgedmin> haven't tried it out yet
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<^chewie> hmm
<^chewie> I'm running into situations where a relational table is the only sane data model
<^chewie> i.e. An event coordinator being assigned in the event_coordinator table w/foreign keys for event and person.
<^chewie> I know this isn't really talking about the contact mgr, so we can get back on track
<^chewie> what do we need to do to get the ball rolling
<nickr> um
<^chewie> nickr: derek wanted to talk this morning about it
<nickr> I just don't understand that statement.
<^chewie> you don't have the context from yesterday to build on
<^chewie> and I was thinking aloud about something not related to contact management
<^chewie> derek wanted to start up with a module proposal
<^chewie> and I'm just waiting for his lead
<^chewie> but he seems to be occupied atm
<nickr> ah
<nickr> you're talking about how to store contacts in such a way as to maximally efficient
<^chewie> yes, and efficient carries a lot of assumptions and trade-offs
<dneighbo> mgedmin might work yes
<dneighbo> i just responded in full to alga's email
<dneighbo> and gave you all dcl accounts
<dneighbo> m a nice way to report on status in dcl
<dneighbo> and created all issues as 'tickets' in the system
<dneighbo> i have to run to work before i get lynched
<dneighbo> see you guys on the other side
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<^chewie> all?
<^chewie> rather, "you all"?
<^chewie> who's he talking to?
<nickr> he was probably referring to a specific subset of us all
<nickr> in relation to previous statements
Action: ^chewie rofls
<^chewie> you're so helpful
<^chewie> ;-)
Action: derek is away: working
<nickr> Its my way
<^chewie> so I've gathered ;-)
Action: ^chewie wishes people would have just been happy with IRC and simply created cool clients instead of reinventing the Instant Messanger wheel multiple times
<nickr> I think people probably enjoy things they create more than things other people create :)
<^chewie> very true
<nickr> I personally think IRC has a lot of flaws, too
<^chewie> certainly
Action: ^chewie cleans gooified mello yellow from his pen drawer
<nickr> ewww
<nickr> I think the design of SILC is pretty neat, tohugh ... also theres an IRC-ng project that has some good ideas
<^chewie> yeah, I finally got frustrated enough with it
<^chewie> SILC?
<nickr> basically addressing the server connection issues
Action: ^chewie nods
<^chewie> cool
<nickr> http://silcnet.org/
Action: ^chewie hasn't dug into irciid code in a long time
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<^chewie> SILC looks cool
<nickr> yea
<mgedmin> suppose I have a numeric field in the database
<mgedmin> and I create an entry field in a form
<mgedmin> can I enter NULL values into the db by leaving this field blank?
Action: mgedmin knows that he can't, but hopes it's a bug in forms client
<^chewie> if you think it's a bug and you don't find it in the current bug database, I'd say go ahead and enter one
<^chewie> if anything, you'll get a response back about it
<mgedmin> that's what i want to find out -- is it a bug or a design decision/whatever
<mgedmin> maybe i'm supposed to set some attribute on that entry field?
<mgedmin> maybe there's another way
<mgedmin> or maybe no-one has thought about this question before
<^chewie> brb
Action: ^chewie tries out irssi
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<^chewie> this is pretty nice, actually
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<^chewie> going to lunch
<nickr> irssi is nice, yes
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<mgedmin> ah, solved the issue with nulls
<mgedmin> apparently empty entry field is stored as NULL in the db if it is typecast as "numeric"
<mgedmin> and a couple of my field were missing that typecast
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<mgedmin> another obstacle
<mgedmin> suppose I have a master/detail form
Action: Yurik is away: home
<^chewie> ahh, good to know
<mgedmin> where for each master record there is a fixed number of detail records
<mgedmin> I've got a view that returns all those detail records and update rules etc.
<mgedmin> But when I'm adding a new master record
<mgedmin> the detail block is empty
<mgedmin> that sounds too abstract
<mgedmin> okay, I have two tables -- Project and Assignment
<mgedmin> for each Project table record there are always two Assignment table records
<mgedmin> (that's simplified a bit)
<mgedmin> Assignment table contains project_id, position_id (1 or 2), person_id
<mgedmin> for a given existing project I can display the assignments of persons to positions, modify it etc.
<mgedmin> but when I click on new record in gnue forms, both project and assignment blocks become empty
<mgedmin> I need the assignment block to be pre-filled with two rows containing project_id and position_id
<dneighbo> mgedmin if you have a fix to the empty set can you please log it against the ticket in dcl?
<dneighbo> so that the developers can review and document as necessary
<dneighbo> mgedmin you can do this via triggers
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<dneighbo> mgedmin im kind of muddy on exactly what you are asking
Action: mgedmin feels the same way about your answers at the moment ;)
<dneighbo> i think it can be solved via master/detail hookup along with triggers
<mgedmin> it's a bit hard to find out which question are you answering
<dneighbo> :)
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> you stated you had a fix to empty detail not inserting because of a NULL value
<dneighbo> by changing the typecast (or at least i think thats what you said)
<mgedmin> ah well yes
<mgedmin> I have a view with a couple of numeric columns
<dneighbo> i was asking you to go to http://www.gnuenterprise.org/dclgw/
<dneighbo> login 
<dneighbo> go to the ticket that is for that 'issue' (that alga sent)
<dneighbo> and fill out a resolution for it 
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<dneighbo> so jamest knows what you did and can look to see if either
<dneighbo> a. there needs to be a fix
<dneighbo> b. there just needs to be better documentation
<dneighbo> then my other response was
<dneighbo> for your two tables question
<dneighbo> i think it can be solved using triggers
<Arturas> bye
<mgedmin> okay, my first question had nothing to do with alga's issues
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<mgedmin> it was a new problem, and i found out it was a problem on my side, not on gnue's
<dneighbo> mgedmin : my bad it sounded like his issue
<dneighbo> i read too much into it :)
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<psu> hi
<mgedmin> actually my second issue is basically the same as aticket 58
<dneighbo> bet the brits are furious to make it to the second round at the expense of .ar?
<dneighbo> psu the sucky thing is the major network here is stealing the games from the lesser network and forcing tape delay
<dneighbo> so it means that either
<dneighbo> GER vs PAR or DEN vs ENG will get 'tape delay' only play
<dneighbo> and my bet is it will be DEN vs ENG :(
<dneighbo> oh wait it could be SWE vs SEN or ESP vs IRL either
<dneighbo> good chance they will delay the ESP vs IRL match
<psu> my cable company has an agreement with the BBC interactive (broadband website) service
<psu> so the Eng v Nig has been on tape loop today from 3 pm to midnight on channel 997
<psu> and Swe v Arg on channel 998 ;-)
<psu> were some people asking to change the filenames of the irc logs files earlier?
<dneighbo> yeah, but no need to
<dneighbo> you can do so by passing params, i just never remember them :)
<dneighbo> reinhard knows them i think
<psu> changing the filenames would break every single hyperlink in KC, so I'm not keen 
<psu> however
<dneighbo> :)
<psu> I have hacked together a php script that sorts them
<dneighbo> ah come on, you have time to burn right
<psu> by reverse date order
<dneighbo> i think you can do all that by doing like ?d
<dneighbo> or something
<dneighbo> sigh i wish i knew
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/irc-logs/?M=A
<dneighbo> there you go
<psu> is there any way of making that the default view?
<jcater> I'm sure there is
<jcater> but /me doesn't know
<jcater> and doesn't have time to research :(
<psu> tell me what M to RTF and I'll have a look ;-)
<dneighbo> i think its an apache thing
<dneighbo> probably the directory directives or something
Action: dneighbo is researching for you
<psu> or I can e-mail the index.php I've done that does much the same thing, but less efficiently
<psu> but includes our e-ball logo as the bullet point for branding ;-)
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<dneighbo> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/mod/mod_autoindex.html#indexorderdefault
<dneighbo> i think is what we want
<dneighbo> can someone (psu or such) and see if it works how you want now
<dneighbo> by default?
<dneighbo> it should show todays files first and yesterday files next and so on
<psu> looks good to me ;-)
<dneighbo> i.e. i changed apache config file just needs testing
<dneighbo> ok cool
<psu> slight oddity in that the gnue-public.log comes out after the gnue-public.log.12Jun2002
<psu> but so what?
<psu> the one is just a symlink for the other, anywya
<psu> & both are needed
<psu> ;-)
<dneighbo> yeah i thought that funny too
<dneighbo> as date time is identical
<psu> presume it then falls back to file name sort to split ties?
Action: psu is trying to remember what all the splitting ties rules are for group stages in World Cup
<^chewie> ls
<^chewie> heh, damnit
<psu> I know the last one is something like "q) coin toss"
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<dneighbo> oh i thought it was alphabetical by country
<dneighbo> regulation
<dneighbo> overtime
<dneighbo> shoot out round 1
<dneighbo> shoot out round 2
<dneighbo> team name with lower alphabetical order
<dneighbo> or was that a coin toss, so hard to recall
Action: psu renames England Aaaaaaaaaaaaaangland
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<psu> someone on radio suggested that last tie-break should be 
<^chewie> dneighbo: is there any working example master/detail forms w/dropdown boxes in the cvs?
<psu> "biggest payment to FIFA Presdient"
<psu> but I'm sure that's very, very unfair ;-)
<dneighbo> um probably
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/codeworks.sql
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/codeworks.gfd
<dneighbo> has both master detail and dropdowns iirc
<dneighbo> though you cant modify records only add/delete them :)
<dneighbo> due to a bug in postgres/gnue
<mgedmin> idea
<mgedmin> entry fields should have an attribute 'key'
<dneighbo> how much?
<mgedmin> and the SQL query should only list fields with key==TRUE in the WHERE part
<mgedmin> then one can add a hidden field carrying the primary key
<mgedmin> and perform queries sanely
<mgedmin> plus avoid postgresql numeric comparison issues as a bonus
<dneighbo> i dont think the ears that need to hear that are listening today
Action: mgedmin sighs
<dneighbo> please send the suggestiong to gnue-dev@gnu.org
<dneighbo> i like the idea but i dont
<dneighbo> all too often people dont make proper keys
<mgedmin> imho the union of all fields in a block is less likely to be a proper key than a developer defined set of fields
Action: mgedmin wonders if there's a place to find the description of attributes like 'Sloppyquery' and 'Editonnull'
<dneighbo> read the *.py doccumentation :)
<dneighbo> actually at one time the techref was pretty up to date
<mgedmin> (that's not a natural state for documentation)
<jcater> we accept documentation patches as well as code patches
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/docs/techref/book1.html
<dneighbo> is pretty good but it does need updating
<dneighbo> i can probalby look into that too
<dneighbo> jcater what is your opinion on the key issue
<jcater> I have purposely avoided that approach
<jcater> I think we're gonna have to do a quick schema lookup on form startup
<jcater> so we can solve these numeric issues
<jcater> as well as get the primary keys if defined
<jcater> and fall back to using the whole record
<jcater> if a table has no primary keu
<jcater> key
<dneighbo> jcater: an intersting note
<jcater> I don't particularly like that approach
<jcater> but
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<jcater> that would solve several issues at once
<dneighbo> .net usies something called xml schema
<mgedmin> what about views?
<dneighbo> basically its identical to what we are doing to generate the sql scripts
<dneighbo> read simlilar xml format
<dneighbo> their design environment uses this
<dneighbo> for its introspection
<dneighbo> as does its forms
<jcater> but, see, that would be fine
<jcater> for GNUe apps
<dneighbo> i.e. the xml schema is an 'entitiy' to the xml
<dneighbo> for the form
<jcater> but our tools are used for inhouse stuff too
<jcater> i.e., I don't have xml schemas for my hundreds of tables
<dneighbo> jcater: no im thinking we do 'introspecting' in our dbdrivers rirght
<dneighbo> and we have xmldump
<dneighbo> how hard would it be to make a schema from an existing table
<dneighbo> so we virtually support both ways
<mgedmin> I have the impression that currently in order to do anything interesting you have to create a view and some rules in the DB for updating it
<dneighbo> you can write a schema in xml if you desire and let it generat the db stuff
<dneighbo> or if you have db stuff already we can create schemas for you
<jcater> anything interesting?
<dneighbo> mgedmin i dont nkow if that is true
Action: jcater doesn't have access to writeable views
<jcater> I use Oracle
<jcater> so none of my stuff uses writeable views
<jcater> but, then again, oracle supports the concept of ROWIDs
<jcater> and that's in our Oracle driver
<mgedmin> what do you do when you need a block that does not correspond to a single table?
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> i guess maybe i use blocks funny as to me they are nothing mroe than a duplaicate of a datasoruce
<jcater> if it was a read-only block (for displaying results)
<jcater> dneighbo: no they are not, dude
<dneighbo> i.e. i dont even like the concept of block :)
<jcater> well, regardless, these issues would be the same
<dneighbo> jcater: i know they are not, but i specifically try to avoid features that use them
<jcater> whether there is a distinction between "blocks" and "datasources" or not
<jcater> dneighbo: you are cheating yourself
<jcater> at least imho
<dneighbo> well eventually my fork will fix the need to use blocks
<dneighbo> then i wont have to chagne my forms :)
<jcater> sigh
Action: jcater is afk
<dneighbo> im kidding of course
Action: mgedmin found that forms/doc/techref.* is more up to date than http://gnuenterprise.org/docs/techref/book1.html
<dneighbo> yes it should be
<dneighbo> i just donet have a cvs tree with me so didnt point to the source, my bad
<dneighbo> doing too many things one time :)
<dneighbo> and M is giving me more work :)
<dneighbo> ask M if he can send himself or one of you to LinuxWorldExpo in San Francisco in August
<dneighbo> seriously
Action: psu wonders how to route Latvia to SFO
Action: reinhard runs away again before somebody sees him
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<dneighbo> maybe we can have a GNUe Developers meeting and some trainign sessions
<dneighbo> psu: they are in lithuanian iirc
<dneighbo> i would say 'same difference' but they might hurt me :)
<mgedmin> M wanted to send alga to LinuxWorld on January, but the US firewall blocked him for some reason
<dneighbo> well you know those lithunian terrorist programmers
<dneighbo> so have him sent to SF isntad
<dneighbo> er instead
<dneighbo> M probably still has a place he can stay there :)
Action: psu was thinking Latvia as they won the Eurovision Song Contest
<alga> concerning the *.py documentation:
<alga> whay are you using #'s instead of docstrings?
<alga> s/whay/why/
<dneighbo> um stupidity
<dneighbo> no just kidding
<dneighbo> we really should be using doc strings
<jcater> well
<dneighbo> so that we can build things with pydoc or happydoc
<jcater> actually
<dneighbo> BUT
<jcater> docstrings REALLY reduce the readability of the code
<jcater> imho
<dneighbo> we dont want code to be littered with documentation
<dneighbo> i.e. the source is not hte place for the api manual
<dneighbo> jcater: im thinking happydoc actually works with # stuff
<jcater> dneighbo: I'm thinking it does too
<dneighbo> i would ike functions to have one line description
<jcater> but I hate the """What I do""" notation
<jcater> detest it
<jcater> but that's just mho :)
<dneighbo> so can build shell of api that is hyperlinks
<dneighbo> from source
Action: mgedmin thinks javadoc is nicer than Python's doc strings
<dneighbo> but i know happydoc (cant speak for pydoc) picks pu the #'s
<dneighbo> http://goats.gnue.org/~dneighbo/gnue/gnuefdoc/GFEvent.py.html
<dneighbo> is exampe of where it picked up the # cometns
<psu> Vilnius to San Fransisco is either
<psu> Lithuanian Air to Frankfurt, United to SFO
<psu> or KLM to Amsterdam, KLM/Northwest to Seattle, NW to SFo
<psu> or Lufthansa from Frankfurt toSFO, but that's probably a United flight in disguise
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<mgedmin> just another thought before I leave
<mgedmin> when you try to quit without savin the data, you get an unfriendly dialog
<mgedmin> could that dialog have three buttons "save and quit", "forget changes and quit" and "oops, continue editing"
<mgedmin> ?
<jcater> yeah, it'd be nice
<jcater> just not a priority :(
<mgedmin> btw now you can get into a nice loop if you have a On-NewRecord trigger inserting some default value into a field
<alga> select 1::numeric = 1::float;
<alga> TADA!
<alga> defined myself an operator to do that
<mgedmin> okay, /me is leaving
<mgedmin> bye everyone
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<alga> yes, cd ~; sleep 25000
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<jcater> anyone have any use for Great Plains Accounting book set?
<jcater> (prior to Microsoft buy-out)
Action: jcater is getting ready to throw them out
<jcater> version 6.1 (for macintosh)
<dneighbo> hahaha
<dneighbo> finally proof suse is evil
<dneighbo> http://www.cip.biologie.uni-osnabrueck.de/niehaus/fotos/lt2002/IMG_0785.JPG
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<dneighbo> read front license plate
Action: jcater is half tempted to get a Mississippi "GNUe" license plate when I move
<dneighbo> i didnt post pictures of mine?
<dneighbo> in california now they have symbols like a 'heart'
<dneighbo> so if @ = heart symbol you could do
<dneighbo> i @ GNUE
<^chewie> hmm, this dropdown box thing eludes me
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<Chipaca> how can I put non-ascii characters in a form?
<Chipaca> i've tried setting the encoding attribute, but it breaks gfclient
<Chipaca> i've tried using standard character entities to no avail
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<dneighbo> ^chewie its voodoo no
<dneighbo> um big ugly stick
<^chewie> I wonder sometimes
<^chewie> ;-)
<^chewie> I'll post what I have, perhaps you can tell me where the issue lies.  I can output the error log, too.
<dneighbo> post it
<dneighbo> the .gfd somewhere
<dneighbo> and then paste here last 10 lines of errorlog
<Chipaca> dneighbo: that's not for me, is it?
<dneighbo> Chipaca nope for chewie
<dneighbo> on yours im not sure of the issue im sure its a i18n issue of sorts
<dneighbo> and when it comes to that im fairly clueless
<dneighbo> what character are you trying to enter?
<Chipaca> any of áéíóúñÁÉÍÓÚÑ
<dneighbo> and do you have your locale set properly
<Chipaca> oh, and üÜ
<^chewie> http://wookimus.net/~chewie/gnue/
<dneighbo> or do you get somethign like
<dneighbo> dneighbo@wright:~$ ~/bin/gfcvs0528 service_requests.gfd
<dneighbo> Unable to load locale information falling back to default English language translations.
<dneighbo> when you run forms
<Chipaca> dneighbo: define 'properly'
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: no, I don't get that
<Chipaca> dneighbo: my locale works correctly
<dneighbo> ^chewie you want me to fix this and send it back to you?
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dneighbo> Chipaca im not much help unfortunately
<dneighbo> ra3vat and arturas know the most about the i18n stuff
<Chipaca> ra3vat: you here?
<^chewie> dneighbo: an explanation as to why it's not working would also be cool.
<^chewie> dneighbo: I'm making assumptions I shouldn't make, apparently, about how dropdown's are handled.
<ra3vat> Chipaca: yes
<Chipaca> ra3vat: how do i get non-ascii chars to display in forms?
<dneighbo> ^chewie : can you try this
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/chewie.gfd
<^chewie> will do
<dneighbo> long of the short of it is you dont need master detail here
<dneighbo> you simply need two data sources
<dneighbo> one for your event table
<dneighbo> and one for you event_type dropdown
<dneighbo> the foreign_key foreign_key_desc attributes handle the 'relationship' so you dont need the master/detail
<dneighbo> m/d does the relationship at the datasource
<dneighbo> foreign_key (lookups) do it at the entry 
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<dneighbo> also you dont have to qualify the key and the description
<ra3vat> Chipaca: try to add encoding= into xml header first and give your email i'll find some message
<dneighbo> only the 'key'
<dneighbo> so doing
<dneighbo> dtsEvent_Type.id for key
<dneighbo> you only have to do 'name' for the description
<dneighbo> and it knows to append the dtsEvent_Type.id
<^chewie> the master/detail thing was throwing me
<dneighbo> i think once designer is altered to only allow valid selections it would help
<^chewie> thanks
<dneighbo> part of me thinks it should be
<^chewie> I couldn't edit any of the properties in the designer anyway, so I handcoded this
<Chipaca> ra3vat: I tried encoding="iso-8859-1", and e.g. á made gfparse barf
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<Chipaca> ra3vat: john@vialibre.org.ar
<dneighbo> <entry fk_datasource="dtsEvent_Type.id" fk_value="id" fk_name="desc">
<dneighbo> or what have you
<dneighbo> did what i post work?
<dneighbo> er
<dneighbo> <entry fk_datasource="dtsEvent_Type" fk_value="id" fk_name="desc">
<dneighbo> just so people dont think im nuts
<dneighbo> ^chewie can you move the property editor box to the upper left most of your screen
<siesel> Chipaca: what do you mean with non-ascii encoding? I can use &auml; without problems.
<dneighbo> then expand it so that it has no scrollbars and see if you can then edit it?
<Chipaca> siesel: &eacute; doesn't work...
<^chewie> dneighbo: yeah
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<Chipaca> siesel: I get 'Telfono' instead of 'Teléfono'
<^chewie> dneighbo: it worked well, thanks!
<ajmitch> hi
<chillywilly> howdy
<Chipaca> siesel: &uml; also displays nothing... maybe it's a font thing?
<^chewie> dneighbo: I use ion for my window manager, I just disable the property manager anyway.
<^chewie> dneighbo: ion isnt' really design for SDI
<chillywilly> dude, now my password for my nick is no good
<ajmitch> why?
<chillywilly> probably because they have an old services databse going now sine the current on got bitched
<ajmitch> ah :)
<chillywilly> but even my old passwrod doesn't seem to work
<dneighbo> well i sent lilo those pictures of you with the goats and he removed your id
<ra3vat> Chipaca: sent
<ajmitch> go complain to #openprojects
<Chipaca> ra3vat: received. You mention 'sitecustomize', what's that?
<chillywilly> dneighbo: ummm, I think you have me confused with james...he's the goat-luvin' boy
<siesel> chipaca: don't know. &auml works for me, but &eacute don't hmmmmm
<siesel> chipaca: don't know. &auml works for me, but &eacute don't
<Chipaca> siesel: ack
<^chewie> hmm, weird
<ra3vat> Chipaca: it is a way not to change "system" site.py and just add <PYTHONHOME>/site-packages/sitecustomize directory with __init__.py there
<^chewie> the dropdown box reorders the items alphabetically
<^chewie> even forcing the datasource to order_by doesn't override the dropdown
<Chipaca> ra3vat: you got a pointer to one non-ascii one?
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<ra3vat> Chipaca: ?
<dneighbo> ^chewie ouchie
<dneighbo> can you submit a bug
<dneighbo> with link to sample form and data_structs
<dneighbo> forms-support@gnuenterprise.org
<Chipaca> ra3vat: I looked at site.py, and encoding is "ascii" ; what are the valid values to put there?
<^chewie> dneighbo: yeah
<ra3vat> Chipaca: mine has koi8-r, look at that message i've sent you. you'll find a list 
<ra3vat> Chipaca: what is your locale?
<siesel> ra3vat: do you know if wxpython supports XIM ?
<ra3vat> siesel: XIM?
<Chipaca> ra3vat: I've tried en_US and es_AR to no avail (both are ISO-8859-1)
<siesel> X Input Method  used for Chinese/Japanese etc.
<^chewie> ok, now that I've tackled some of the littler things...
<ra3vat> siesel: i know nothing about it :(
<^chewie> pwd
<^chewie> doh, why do I do that?! ;-)
<ra3vat> Chipaca: ISO is ok, latin-1 may be so
<jcater> ^chewie: pwd isn't a big deal
<jcater> it's when you start typing your passwords in here
<jcater> that you need to worry
<jcater> not that I've ever done that
<jcater> <cough>
<Chipaca> ra3vat: ISO-8859-1 did the trick
<Chipaca> ra3vat: thanks!
<dneighbo> jcater: ^chewie appears right order_by appears broken
<jcater> order_by is broken?
<dneighbo> it is order_by="somefieldname" in datasource right?
<jcater> or dropdowns are resorting by themselves?
<dneighbo> for lookups it appears to sort by foreign_key_description
<jcater> or both?
<dneighbo> jcater: im not sure just yet
<dneighbo> verified that drop downs definitely arent sorting properly
<dneighbo> whether its a dropdown thing
<dneighbo> or a global thing i can say in a minute :)
<jcater> well, actually order_by was a hack dating pre-0.1.0
<jcater> so I'm not sure if it works or not
Action: jcater needs to look at datasources again soon
<jcater> as I need better sorting for reports
<siesel> jcater: I've tested order_by for one single column and it works.
<jcater> ok
<jcater> then it must be that dropdowns are resorting
<siesel> jcater: seems that the order_by is just appended at the end of a query
<jcater> is someone opening a ticket for this?
<jcater> siesel: yeah, that was a temporary hack
<jcater> not the permanent solution
<ra3vat> Chipaca: ok, let me know if you'll find any mistakes in what i sent you :)
<jcater> in the future, ordering will work like conditionals
<jcater> i.e., datasources will have a <sorting> tag
<siesel> jcater: do you mean a <condition> tag is already working?
<jcater> um
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> thought so
<jcater> I use it in reports
<jcater> is it not working for you?
<siesel> I didn't know of its existenz :)
<jcater> oh
<dneighbo> jcater: confirmed its only dropdowns
<jcater> someone should document their stuff better
<jcater> <cough>
<Chipaca> ra3vat: will do ]:)
Action: jcater looks around
<dneighbo> i think that ^chewie was opening a ticket
<jcater> siesel: look at the reports samples
<jcater> there should be an example
<jcater> should work the same in forms
<dneighbo> conditionals work but compound conditionals do not
<jcater> dneighbo: ?
<dneighbo> or at least i couldnt get them to work
<jcater> someone here suggested we do a wiki
<dneighbo> i got syntax that wouldnt barf
Action: jcater is half-tempted to do that
Action: dneighbo hates wiki, but i suppose like all things i would get used to it
<jcater> dneighbo: well, I'm not big on it
<jcater> but it might jump-start better documentation
Action: dneighbo thinks it better to fix docs than enter wiki info
<jcater> as in, it makes it real easy for other ppl to contribute
<dneighbo> and if its bug stuff
<dneighbo> it belongs in dcl and not wiki
<jcater> dneighbo: the point is to get others to document for us
<dneighbo> jcater: true dat
<jcater> :)
<jcater> I agree with you, though
<dneighbo> ^chewie you alive?
<jcater> if one of us are doing something doc related
<jcater> then definitely do it properly in cvs
<siesel> jcater: I found that conditions thing in zip..state.grd, but its empty :(
<dneighbo> um i have conditions that work just a second
<dneighbo> compound are broked though :)
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/sr/service_requests.grd
<dneighbo>    <datasource database="dcl" name="dtswo" table="workorders">
<dneighbo>      <condition>
<dneighbo>        <eq>
<dneighbo>          <cfield name="jcn" />
<dneighbo>          <cparam name="sr_range" />
<dneighbo>        </eq>
<dneighbo>      </condition>
<dneighbo>    </datasource> 
<dneighbo> specifically
<siesel> cool. 
<dneighbo> i dont see that chewie has submitted somethign so i will
Nick change: Chipaca -> aprono
<aprono> what's the right way to focus the next entry in a detail list?
<aprono> not the next field of an entry, but the next entry itself
<dneighbo> ticket #62 created for dropdown issue
<aprono> we are trying to focus the next entry from a button, and
<aprono> setFocus(itemsBlock.bonusEntry)
<aprono> self._object.dispatchEvent(GFEvent('requestFIRSTRECORD'))
<aprono> works, but
<aprono> itemsBlock.firstRecord()
<aprono> setFocus(itemsBlock.bonusEntry)
<aprono> doesn't
<aprono> it moves the record, but it doesn't change the focus
<aprono> the first way is ugly because self._object seems to be "private"
<aprono> (because of the ^_)
<dneighbo> wow been a while since i looked at code
<dneighbo> but i dont know if you will will be able to do this or not
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<dneighbo> i.e. you could do first and last
<dneighbo> but if you have 5 rows of detail
<dneighbo> well sigh irc too hard to explain
<dneighbo> you can move the recordset, but i dont know if you can move focus via trigger in what i thik your trying to do
<aprono> well, the first form works, so I guess it should work
<aprono> but it breaks subtly
<aprono> i.e. you have to tab out of the _button_ to get to the detail, and the right entry in the detail will have focus
<aprono> dneighbo: btw, is there a key for first/last record?
<dneighbo> um dont know
<dneighbo> i added menu support
<dneighbo> and jamest added button support
<aprono> also, how can I access the resultset? without using "private" methods
<dneighbo> should be shift+uparrow or shift+downarrow but its not working
<dneighbo> can you file bug to 
<dneighbo> forms-support@gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> dres: first / last record not being accessible by keys
<dneighbo> s/dres:/re dumb bitchx as bad as xchat
<aprono> dneighbo: ok
<^chewie> dneighbo: you move quicker than I on that DCL report ;-)
<^chewie> dneighbo: still need sample forms/data?
<dneighbo> no
<dneighbo> i used yours
<^chewie> k
<^chewie> gotta go
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<aprono> dneighbo: sorry, again, how can I access the resultset?
<aprono> dneighbo: or should I write a getResultset, as I wrote a firstRecord ?
Nick change: aprono -> Chipaca
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<Chipaca> did I mention that <options><option name="foo" value="bar"/></> sucks?
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<Chipaca> is there an example of a working checkbox?
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