[00:20] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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<psu> hi
<ra3vat> hello
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<psu> did we ever get to bottom of  i18n problems or are there still "issues"
Action: psu doesn't really follow commit-gnue
<psu> suppose I should rtfml (read the flippin' mailing list)
<psu> Saw someone was asking about a GNUe wiki yesterday
<psu> imho this channel (plus the Kernel Cousins summaries) 
<psu> pretty much give us what we would get from a wikki anywya
<psu> (as evidenced by the fact that I am talking away here 
<psu> knowing that key people will read back log)
<reinhard> :)
<psu> and the problem is that the more channels of comm we have 
<psu> the thinner they get spread 
<psu> and the more work is involved in keeping an overall picture of the project
<psu> i.e. even at the moment 
<psu> I can be reading an IRC conversation 
<psu> & not be aware of the related mail list discussion
<psu> as I haven't checked the kcdude mailbox for a day or so
<psu> All imho of course
Action: psu actually likes the concept of wikki and is wondering about using it for project at work
<psu> not sure if it is a good fit for our org culture, however
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<psu> hi DLatterm
<DLatterm> hi!
<psu> Any questions, or are you just lurking?
<psu> "#gnuenterprise - lurker's paradise" ;-)
<DLatterm> yes, I made first contact with gnue yesterday.
<psu> how did you find out about us?
<DLatterm> tried to create some simple forms using postgresql
<DLatterm> read on your webpage.
<DLatterm> is this irc supposed to be a secret?
<psu> not at all
<psu> we're just nosy about how people find us
<psu> it can sometimes be the most convoluted route ;-)
<DLatterm> I'm not sure because gnue is all new to me, I was trying a form with a dropdown list in it.
<DLatterm> only the first 5 rows in the table were included in the dropdown list.
Action: psu is not a real developer, but that sounds familiar
<psu> 5 is the default cache size
<psu> which is no good at all for dropdowns, of course
<psu> there will be an option somewhere to increase the cache for the dropdown 
<DLatterm> yes, I guessed something like this and tried to experiment with the attributes of the datasource in the xml file
<psu> if I knew what I was talking about, I could tell you what it was
<DLatterm> Maybe I should ask some different time ro in the mailing list?
<DLatterm> are most developers american?
<psu> we seem to have a split 
<psu> Forms/2-tier mainly US
<psu> App Server mainly German ;-)
<psu> wasn't planned that way, just happened
<psu> like most things with free s/w
<psu> ;-)
<psu> US guys normally wake up early afternoon Europe time
<reinhard> German?
<reinhard> German?????????
<reinhard> you call me German?????????????
<psu> s/German/German&Austrian
<reinhard> j/k
<psu> s/German&Austrian/German-speaking
<esands> psu: check http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Codev/HowToGetInternalBuyInForTWiki and
<esands> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Main/TWikiSuccessStories
Action: psu quivers
<DLatterm> Ok. I didn't look at the appserver yet, wanted to keep as simple aspossible firstr
<psu> DLatterm: agreed. The appserver is released, but more proof of concept at moment
<psu> i.e. at the bottom of an exponential "getting useful" curve
<DLatterm> there seemed to be something else strange with the cache size:
<psu> esands: thnx
<DLatterm> i had one block with one entry on a table with several hundreds of rows.
<DLatterm> the number of rows was displayed correctly in the form, butscrolling through them only the first 5 got repeated.
<psu> once again, that sounds familiar
<DLatterm> you raise reassurance ;-)
Action: psu is going to have to be rude, as I have to get to work
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<DLatterm> bye psu
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<btami> morning
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<ra3vat> hi btami
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<btami> hi ra3vat
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<StyXman> good morning
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<derek> gack the US just sucks
<derek> portugal has two guys kicked out though so maybe, just maybe south korea will win and save our butts 
<derek> :(
<derek> yes s. korea saved our butts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<mgedmin> hi
<dneighbo> hi mgedmin
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<^chewie> mornin
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<ra3vat> hi
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Action: Chipaca waves
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: you mistyped fheinz's email address in your email to StyXman
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<StyXman> dneighbo: I received the gnu enterprise assignment.
<StyXman> I have a couple of doubts...
<dneighbo> he only his?
<dneighbo> or all of them
<StyXman> he only his? what kind of construction is that?!?
<dneighbo> um kansas english?
<dneighbo> i meant only on his
<dneighbo> but i verified and resent
<dneighbo> what are the doubts
<StyXman> a) can I reply addind what I guess are the answers?
<mgedmin> bug: you cannot turn off boolean attributes in the designer
<mgedmin> (and yes, derek, I will send a proper bug report ;)
<StyXman> b) fede's email was wrong.
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<StyXman> c) the files list should be relative to which path?
<StyXman> d) should I list *All* the files?
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<StyXman> e) where should I change that info, whenever it may change?
<dneighbo> dont worry so much about files
<dneighbo> basically just say multiple files 
<dneighbo> or something
<StyXman> f) do answers like 'not yet' work?
<dneighbo> sigh i really have to run :(
<dneighbo> yes those kind of answers work
<dneighbo> i say answer to best of your ability
<Chipaca> dneighbo: how about this:
<dneighbo> the important stuff is stuff that should be easy to asnwer :)
<dneighbo> like your name
<Chipaca> Yes. I attend the Facultad de Matemática, Astronomía y Física of
<Chipaca> the Universidad Nacional de Córdoba, and I work for the Fundación
<Chipaca> Vía Libre. However, all the work I'm doing for GNU Enterprise is
<Chipaca> done either in my own time, in my home, or in my employers' time.
<Chipaca> I don't do GNU Enterprise work at my University.
<dneighbo> birthdate and such
<Chipaca> dneighbo: does that sound Ok?
<dneighbo> Chipaca: you only need to list them if they can CLAIM RIGHTS TO YOUR WORK
<dneighbo> if they cant you probably need not list them
<Chipaca> dneighbo: they can.
<Chipaca> dneighbo: the uni would be wrong, but they can claim rights.
<Chipaca> ok, i'll leave the uni out
<dneighbo> if they can claim right to your work then you need to get them to sign a disclaimer
<dneighbo> that they wont
<dneighbo> Chipaca: i meant VALID claims :)
<Chipaca> dneighbo: OH!
<dneighbo> in the states the list would be too long otherwise
<dneighbo> as with lawyers here they think anyone is entitled to everything
<StyXman> :))
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: sent
<dneighbo> cool i have to run be back in a bit
Action: dneighbo is away: work
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<mgedmin> umm... are checkboxes supposed to work atm?
<StyXman> mgedmin: AFAIK< not
<mgedmin> ah
<mgedmin> great ;)
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<mgedmin> hm, I don't actually need a checkbox here... just a hidden field to update boolean value in the DB
<mgedmin> oops, "unable to identify an operator '=' for types 'boolean' and 'integer'"
<mgedmin> can't use an entry with type=text for boolean fields
<mgedmin> queries like "SELECT * FROM foo WHERE booleanfield=1" do not work
Action: mgedmin desperately needs WHERE clauses with primary keys only
<mgedmin> actually, any key would do
<mgedmin> as long as it is a proper key
<mgedmin> and not just an union of all fields
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<Chipaca> mgedmin: they work alright :)
<Chipaca> mgedmin: try adding a <conditions><eq><cfield name="booleanfield"/><cconst value="1"/></eq></conditions> inside your datasource definition
<mgedmin> any place where this is documented?
<mgedmin> (except the source I mean)
<Chipaca> mgedmin: amazingly, no
<Chipaca> mgedmin: and in fact it's pretty new and designer doesn't support it AFAIK
<mgedmin> any chance of a short overview here, or at least a pointer to the sources?
<mgedmin> (not a problem -- I try to avoid designer as much as possible)
<mgedmin> (too many minor irritations)
<mgedmin> hm
<Chipaca> mgedmin: GConditions.py in common
<Chipaca> mgedmin: but it's pretty straightforward
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<mgedmin> judging from the syntax and what I remeber from irc logs, conditions just limit the rows datasource can access, right?
<Chipaca> mgedmin: if you can think in parse trees
<mgedmin> I don't need that atm
<Chipaca> :)
<mgedmin> I need to have access to a boolean field in the db
<mgedmin> no need to display, need to update
<mgedmin> scratch that, I probably also want to display it
<Chipaca> mgedmin: I don't think there's a difference (but I've been wrong way too many times already on this)
<mgedmin> but if I add an <entry field="myboolfield" ...>, the updates break
<mgedmin> so, can conditions help here?
<Chipaca> why do updates break?
<Chipaca> anyhoo, gotto go, bbl
Nick change: Chipaca -> ChipAway
<mgedmin> well, they break because any <entry> in a block automatically adds a comparison to the WHERE clause on UPDATE statements
<mgedmin> and comparing a boolean value 0/1 is not supported by PostgreSQL
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Action: mgedmin really really needs proper WHERE clauses
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<ajmitch> ah debian is good
Action: ajmitch is reading the article about using openoffice with mysql (using ODBC)
Action: mgedmin loves debian
<mgedmin> and hates openoffice
<ajmitch> heheh
<ajmitch> why so?
<mgedmin> big.  slow.  unstable.
<ajmitch> true
Action: ajmitch likes decently made debian packages, makes setting up stuff so much quicker
<mgedmin> i still have hope -- mozilla was big/slow/unstable/damn inconvenient once
<mgedmin> now its the best browser ever
<mgedmin> quite far from ideal, but still the best
<nickr> I still prefer galeon
<nickr> but mozilla has improved dramaticly
<mgedmin> actually I used galeon for some time
<mgedmin> but I still haven't found a nice Gtk theme
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<nickr> hm.
<ajmitch> nickr: how be debs?
Nick change: ChipAway -> Chipaca
<nickr> I'm feeling very discouraged by setup.py.
<ra3vat> ajmitch: hi, what article?
<Chipaca> mgedmin: you are using a 'boolean' type?
<ajmitch> ra3vat: see on linuxtoday.com, it's a pdf
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<ajmitch> nickr: ah
<ajmitch> greetings dneighbo
<mgedmin> Chipaca: yes
<mgedmin> Chipaca: the same problem occurs with DATETIME
<mgedmin> hm, even better
<mgedmin> with DATETIME it works for some records and fails for others
<nickr> ajmitch: it just doesn't want to play along nicely.
<ajmitch> mgedmin: heh, sucky, the mysql-client package in debian sid don't allow me to use it for odbc (has a bug)
<ajmitch> nickr: it's not called evil without a reason :)
<nickr> Indeed :)
<Chipaca> mgedmin: let me check somethng, brb
<Chipaca> mgedmin: don't use '1' and '0', use 'true'
<Chipaca> mgedmin: and 'false'
<Chipaca> mgedmin: or '1' and '0'
<Chipaca> err
<Chipaca> I mean, "1" and "0" are integers, so the casting fails (at least with 7.2.1), while "'1'" and "'0'" are strings and it works
<Chipaca> mgedmin: in fact, edit your gnue.conf, and set 'checkboxTrueValue' to 'y' instead of '1'
<Chipaca> mgedmin: likewise for checboxFalseValue
<Chipaca> mgedmin: that should make it work
<mgedmin> will try
<mgedmin> but the same problem occurs with date/time fields -- just not all the time
<Chipaca> mgedmin: basically postgres is dumb about how to cast an integer to one of the other types
<mgedmin> Chipaca: postgres is dumb about casting anything to anything, most of the time
<Chipaca> mgedmin: if it's a string, at least it'll try :)
<mgedmin> yeah
<mgedmin> hm
<mgedmin> problem is that it *gets* the value as 
<mgedmin> 0 or 1 from the db
<mgedmin> puts it into a text entry field
<mgedmin> then tries to store it back
<mgedmin> hm... gnue-forms 0.3.0 uses WHERE completed='1' and it seems to work
<Chipaca> mgedmin: the trick is the 's around the 1
<mgedmin> CVS version uses completed=1 and fails
Action: pattieja is away: lunch
Action: mgedmin wonders if his changes to _toSqlString have something to do with this
<Chipaca> mgedmin: what's in your gnue.conf?
<mgedmin> but I only touched FloatType constants
<mgedmin> my ~/.gnue.conf now contains only checkbox{True,False} = {T,F}
<mgedmin> heh, but I do not use checkbox fields in this form
Action: mgedmin tried two approaches and is now applying the workaround for the wrong one
<mgedmin> question: what --debug-level should I use to see the actual SQL queries and as little as possible of the other stuff
Action: mgedmin bangs his forehead for being stupid
<mgedmin> DB005: [DBdriver:422] SELECT ...
<mgedmin> that 005 *is* debug level
<mgedmin> (and I guessed that only after looking into DBdriver.py line 422)
<mgedmin>  
<mgedmin> okay, to sum it up:
<mgedmin> 1. updating a boolean field through a checkbox does not work due to UI issues
<mgedmin> 2. updating a boolean field through a text entry does not work because of typecasting issues
<mgedmin> 2 might be caused by my fixes to ticket #54 (numerics), need to check that
<Chipaca> mgedmin: 2 should work if you typecast it to string
<mgedmin> 2 is broken because of my fixes *sigh*
Action: mgedmin curses silently
<dneighbo> mgedmin glad to see you working on the gnue curses ;)
Action: mgedmin always wondered why that library was called 'curses'
<mgedmin> problem: SELECT ... WHERE numericfield = 1.0 fails
<mgedmin> SELECT ... WHERE numericfield = '1.0' works, but UPDATE ... SET intfield = '1.0' fails
<mgedmin> where UPDATE ... SET intfield = 1.0 works
<mgedmin> so I tried to fix it by adding a check in _toSqlString for IntType
<mgedmin> that didn't actually work for numbers
<mgedmin> but I think it might be triggered now with booleans
<mgedmin> later I noticed that UPDATE ... SET intfield = '1' works
<mgedmin> so now I just s/.0'/'/ in _toSqlString for floats
<mgedmin> woohoo it works now!
<Chipaca> mgedmin: that sounds pretty fucked-up if you asked me
<Chipaca> mgedmin: mind you it's postgres, not yuo
<dneighbo> yes postgres on this issue is just well got its head up its rear
<dneighbo> mgedmin doesnt m have some pull with postgres team?
<dneighbo> maybe you guys could 'nudge' them for a response on this
Action: Chipaca wonders if m uses m as his nick
<mgedmin> he tried
<mgedmin> it was taken
<mgedmin> so he decided to wait until it's free
<dneighbo> m doesnt irc, or at least not that i know of
Action: mgedmin sigs
<dneighbo> you sig eh
<dneighbo> must be a hard job, with all the people using sigs now a days
<mgedmin> two of my usual nicks were taken, so I had to use my e-mail w/o domain
Action: mgedmin is proud of his e-mail sig collection
<Chipaca> dneighbo: isn't there a 'boolean' typecast?
<mgedmin> I can only see text, numeric and date
<ra3vat> ajmitch: thanks :)
<mgedmin> any chance on the read-only bugs getting fixed over this weekend?
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<mgedmin> okay, I'll know that on Monday ;)
Action: mgedmin is going home now
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: do we all have to sign this, or just the Fundación (its president)
Action: pattieja is back (gone 00:53:55)
<Chipaca> jcater: you here?
<dneighbo> what is 'this'
<dneighbo> you all will need to sign the individual assignment
<dneighbo> the president of the fundacion will neeed to sign the corporate one
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: umm, the printed one is the individual, or the corporate, or both?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: 'this' is the printed one
<Chipaca> dneighbo: ok.
<dneighbo> Chipaca you lost me
<dneighbo> the one i sent you via email you need to fill out the fields and send to emails listed in instructions
<dneighbo> the corporate one only fede will get
<dneighbo> then in a few weeks a packet should arrive with papers for you to sign
<dneighbo> individually and corporate
<dneighbo> you sign those and send them back to FSF
<Chipaca> dneighbo: yes, i just received an email from fsf explaining that. thank you.
<ajmitch> changes can't go in until papers are received back by FSF?
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<^chewie> well, time to go close on my house
<^chewie> later peoplez!
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<StyXman> hi again...
<ajmitch> hey StyXman
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<Chipaca> dneighbo: you still there? q for you
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<dneighbo> im here
<dneighbo> whats up 
<StyXman> Il call him. wait just a sec...
<Chipaca> dneighbo: is tehre any point in us sending you patches until the fsf's received our papers?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: i mean in view of the fluxing cvs state
<Chipaca> :/
<StyXman> I think it has, first, for discussing them, even if they're not applied.
<StyXman> second, cause I dont like to have the queue on this side :)
<dneighbo> um yes
<dneighbo> we are willing to go on good faith if the patch is not major
<dneighbo> the biggest thing i see is that there are two kinds of patches
<dneighbo> a. bugfixes
<dneighbo> b. new features
<dneighbo> most of what you guys have submitted are new features
<StyXman> yeap...
<dneighbo> codeworks has a lot of pending bugs
<dneighbo> we would like to apply one or two bug patches on the current cvs
<dneighbo> and tag/branch it for the 0.3.x bugfix series
<dneighbo> so until the bugfix patches are applied (later this week)
<StyXman> aha, you prefer us to try to help with patches along we submitt new features?
<dneighbo> you probalby wont see your patches applied
<StyXman> ack.
<dneighbo> StyXman no code what you need 
<StyXman> dneighbo: parse error
<dneighbo> i.e. if the bugs that exist arent cause you directly issues and new features are more important to you do those :)
<Chipaca> dneighbo: ok
<dneighbo> if a bug is causing you problems certainly send a patch :)
<dneighbo> the big thing that will hold your patches up right now
<StyXman> dneighbo: parse error. but I think I got the message.
<dneighbo> are i am kind of doing the maintenace/bug maintenance tree
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<dneighbo> and im here, so maint/bug patches will get applied quickly (Relatively speaking)
<dneighbo> new feature bugs cant just be 'tested' and 'applied'
<ajmitch> dneighbo: so for example, if i magically submit patches, they will be held up due to lack of assignment?
<dneighbo> they have to be discussed
<dneighbo> and agreed upon by the maintainers of the package
<dneighbo> who are somewhat busy this week or next so there will be slight delay
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<dneighbo> i hope that makes sense
<Chipaca> dneighbo: sure does
<dneighbo> dont take a patch not being applied same day as it not being appreciated nor it not being useful
<Chipaca> chillywilly: hi
<StyXman> ack
<StyXman> hi chillywilly 
<ajmitch> uh oh
<Chipaca> dneighbo: we'd appreciate critics
<StyXman> what is it, ajmitch ?
<dneighbo> ajmitch it would depend on the patch and your willingness to submit an assignment
<ajmitch> StyXman: chillywilly is here :)
<dneighbo> Chipaca i cant speak for all but on the two patches i saw i think there are questions
<ajmitch> dneighbo: oh i have absolutely no probs with assignments if it's needed :)
<dneighbo> on teh toolbar thing, there was question on how to implement, i didnt review patch but if its in options and such as jcater was liking, im sure it will go through
<StyXman> ajmitch: but his silent... strange, ain't it?
<dneighbo> on the scrollbar, i dont think he cares for the 'widget' that is purley a scrollbox
<ajmitch> StyXman: yes, quite strange
<dneighbo> so it will probably be requested to make that a generic container widget of sorts that gets bound to a scrollbar or such
<dneighbo> if i read jasons response correctly
<StyXman> wait a sec, you all
<chillywilly> hi all
<StyXman> (parsing outside noise)
<StyXman> (which means: meeting)
<chillywilly> I think a scrollbox is generic enough
<chillywilly> you could implement a scroolbox in most uis
<Chipaca> chillywilly: i love you.
<chillywilly> HEH
<StyXman> Chipaca: did you know that this goes to the logs? worldwide available?
<StyXman> or was it a virus?
<ajmitch> it's disturbing alright
<chillywilly> well this place is the least of the places I would expect to get any love
Action: ajmitch gets out violin
Action: chillywilly throttles ajmitch
<StyXman> dneighbo: we don't like the option thing.
Action: Chipaca licks chillywilly's ear
<chillywilly> you cold hearted bastard
Action: chillywilly 's leg begins to twitch
<ajmitch> StyXman: why not?
<StyXman> oh my, oh my. err.. what about leaving the tortolitos alone?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: eh? cold-hearted?
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<chillywilly> that was a bit sarcastic
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<ajmitch> wb StyXman!!!
<StyXman> who was the passive?
<StyXman> :) 
<StyXman> why we don't like the option thing?
Action: chillywilly sobs
<ajmitch> StyXman: i asked you that
<chillywilly> it's over Chipaca we are through
<ajmitch> prepare to defend thyself!
<StyXman> well, because if we start to add attributes to those tags, being a tag is the best way.
Action: Chipaca wails
<ajmitch> so you prefer to bloat the number of tags rather than bloating the option tag? :)
<StyXman> and options are supossed to just add attributes to objects and not fake new tags. but I gotta leave. sports calls.
<Chipaca> ajmitch: the problem is how smart you can make a tag
<chillywilly> can't you always have some ui drivers that ignore certain tags?
Action: Chipaca picks up the flag
<StyXman> where attributes means non-standar attributes.
<ajmitch> Chipaca: i haven't looked at the problem at all yet, just asking at the moment :)
<StyXman> chillywilly: well, I also think that not all tags should be rendered by all the ui's.
<StyXman> but I gotta go.
Action: ajmitch wants an image tag :)
<StyXman> ok, gone. please, send mails. please.
<ajmitch> StyXman: where to? :)
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<Chipaca> anyhow...
<ajmitch> yup yup
<Chipaca> dneighbo: what was that of a generic container system?
<Chipaca> ajmitch: thing is it isn't just an option, although at this moment all you can do is turn it on
<Chipaca> ajmitch: the idea is to be able to customize it (at least in part)
<ajmitch> Chipaca: so what do you intend it to be? customised toolbars, etc?
<ajmitch> and being able to replace/add to the menu?
<Chipaca> ajmitch: without it being "a glade"
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> how will you avoid that then? :)
<Chipaca> ajmitch: the idea is (i think, from what i've spoken with styxman) to define all the buttons in forms, but to be able to choose which ones to show, and possibly where to put the toolbar
<ajmitch> ok then
<Chipaca> ajmitch: and if gnue is against that, then
<ajmitch> fork it! ;)
<Chipaca> ajmitch: no, let me finish :)
<ajmitch> ok :)
<Chipaca> ajmitch: thing is, the <option> idea is basically flawed: either it is a separate widget and belongs in a tag by itself, or it's an attribute of the form (or the block?) and it belongs as an attribute there
<Chipaca> ajmitch: it's not for the tag itself we're arguing, it's against the proposed <options> idea
<ajmitch> i understand now
<Chipaca> ajmitch: the option tags would be *way* to smart for a humble xml tag
<ajmitch> now, you just need to persuade jcater & others
<Chipaca> ajmitch: *sigh*
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<Chipaca> good weekend all
<Chipaca> (monday is a holiday here)
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<chillywilly> hiya dneighbo
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<dneighbo> hi chillywilly 
<dneighbo> must run home bbl
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<jbailey> derek: You there?
Action: jcater is away: night
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--- Sat Jun 15 2002