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<siesel> morning
<siesel> dneighbo: you there?
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<lupo_> hi
<reinhard> hey lupo
<reinhard> long time no see
<lupo_> hi reinhard
<lupo_> wasn't very long imho :)
<lupo_> had some things to do because i just finished school
<SachaS> Hi reinhard
<lupo_> hm, pgsql supports polygons
<lupo_> do you know how to work with them through sql queries?
<SachaS> reinhard: in december i am coming back for holidays. we should go for a chat.
<lupo_> okay got it
<reinhard> SachaS: december? that's quite some time from now :)
<reinhard> i think we can make it then :)
<SachaS> reinhard: good then. i will contact you before.
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<lupo_> *g*
<lupo_> ltsp topic: support the right to arm bears :)
<lupo_> btw
<lupo_> i have finally managed to set up postgresql
<lupo_> really rules
<lupo_> i have only used mysql before
<lupo_> and mysql is really sucky ..
<lupo_> erm
<lupo_> bye
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<StyXman> hi peop
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<siesel> hi
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<reinhard> Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay
<reinhard> 	I muck with indices and structs all day
<reinhard> And when it works, I shout hoo-ray
<reinhard> 	Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay
<jamest> :)
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<dyfet> Just so long as your not picking wild flowers...:)
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<StyXman> hi again
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<StyXman> hi ^chewie 
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<^chewie> heya, StyXman 
Action: ^chewie wants to code at a coffee shop
Action: ^chewie needs a laptop
<StyXman> cofee! good idea!
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<Arturas> Hello
<StyXman> any hints in debugging?
<nickr> mmm coffee
<StyXman> I set a bp @ certain lne in certain function
<StyXman> that line prints a debug message
<StyXman> I run the program, the debug message is print but the execution continues just like no bp was set there!
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<StyXman> hints on debuging? anyone?
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<dneighbo> evite la cucaracha
<dneighbo> that is my debugging hint
<StyXman> la cucaracha, la cucaracha...
<dneighbo> that or
<StyXman> ya, no puede caminar...
<dneighbo> compre el buen aerosol del insecto
<StyXman> porque le falta, porque le falta...
<StyXman> la patita de atrás.
<dneighbo> rofl i used to have that song on my computer
<StyXman> compre un buen isecticida.
<StyXman> insecticida.
<dneighbo> ah
<dneighbo> i went with literal 'bug spray'
<dneighbo> just for clarification what you are trying to say is....
<StyXman> well, that is a short of 'spray for bugs', wich would be aerosol para insectos
<dneighbo> GNUe es un motel de la cucaracha.  
Action: dneighbo wishes he knew more spanish, since i live so close to mexican border it would come in very handy :)
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<StyXman> so, I can´t set a simple bp.
<StyXman> cantinero, deme tequila!
<dneighbo> instead i was dumb and learned french instead (so many french people in arizona and all)
<ariel_> dneighbo: real good new topic :)
<StyXman> It's all you need, I guess
<dneighbo> donde esta el banos?
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<StyXman> uh, donde esta el baño or donde están los baños.
<ariel_> segue la cucaracha
<dneighbo> is helpful after muy tequila
<StyXman> dneighbo: chipaca sends his regards
<dneighbo> hi chipaca :)
<StyXman> mucho
<StyXman> mucho tequila
<StyXman> I prefer mucha cerveza
<dneighbo> yes mucho (as stated my spanish is bad)
<dneighbo> dos equis (sp?)
<dneighbo> yummy
<dneighbo> corona yucky
<StyXman> 2x?
<dneighbo> yes 2x
<StyXman> quilmes.
<dneighbo> is a mexican beer
<StyXman> I don't know a lot of mex beer.
<StyXman> actually, I don't know a lot of beer.
Action: ^chewie makes his own bear
<^chewie> s/bear/beer/
<StyXman> ^chewie: do you?
Action: ^chewie nods
<^chewie> it's easy, actually
<StyXman> wow...
<StyXman> if you have the time an things...
<^chewie> na, it's not much of a time waster
<StyXman> I prefer quilmes anyway. let the good ones do the good.
<^chewie> I could brew up a batch in about 2 hours.  Then it's a waiting game until you have to bottle
<StyXman> where do you do it?
<^chewie> bottling 5 gals w/one helper is about a half hour operation
<StyXman> and anyways, I need help to set a f***ng breakpoint
<^chewie> the kitchen and the basement
<dneighbo> dos equis and tecate are both good mexian beers 
Action: ^chewie nods at dneighbo 
<StyXman> dneighbo: more mex spanish: chinga tu madre!
<dneighbo> hey now
<StyXman> good for asking directions
<StyXman> :)
<dneighbo> you will NOT do that to my mother :)
<StyXman> dneighbo: nono, I didn't meant YOUR mother. actually... well you understand
<dneighbo> i think your just jealous becuaue tu madre es muy gordo
<dneighbo> j/k :)
<StyXman> muy gorda
<StyXman> and, yes, she is.
<dneighbo> damn i hate that
<dneighbo> why do you all have to have make things masculine and feminine?
<dneighbo> just to piss off the americans i suppose
<StyXman> male/female? thank god there are two sexs...
Action: dneighbo is greatful we dont do that here
<StyXman> and we remeber that each time we gotta say gorda or gordo
<dneighbo> as i can imagine the women suing the government
<StyXman> why?
<dneighbo> that some words are 'masculine' and they would want them feminine
<StyXman> well, some words are masculine, yes.
<dneighbo> btw: our chihuaha's name is chica gorda 
<dneighbo> w/ still is what i think of when i see nick chipaca for somereason (though now i think nippless tit bread) i dont know which is worse :)
<StyXman> well, chip is not so happy with that metaphor...
<StyXman> and I´m not happy with py debug...
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<StyXman> brb
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<dneighbo> we have a phrase
<dneighbo> 'dont worry be happy'
<dneighbo> python debugger got you down
<dneighbo> chipaca name is an awful sound
<dneighbo> dont worry be happy mon
<dneighbo> cant get the code to stop and break
<dneighbo> makes you want to throw your computer in the lake
<dneighbo> dont worry be happy mon
<dneighbo> they say if you write enough python code
<dneighbo> some day ja gonna hit da mutha lode
<dneighbo> dont worry be happy now
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<nickr> seeng it mon,
<ulf> newbie question: is there a collection of working examples for GNUE forms *.gfd-files around?
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<jamest> ulf: you have cvs or tarball or win32 install?
<ulf> tarball.
<jamest> there should be a samples dir in the tarball
<jamest> for forms
<ulf> jamest: Sorry, there is ... I looked in /usr/local/gnue, not .../src/gnue/... . Thanks! ;-)
<jamest> no problem
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<siesel> hi again
<ariel_> hi siesel
<ariel_> siesel: got the mail?
<siesel> which mail?
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<ariel_> i sended you the diagrams
<Arturas> bye
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<^chewie> rehi
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<siesel> bbl
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<ariel_> does someone upgraded RH72 to RH73 (which, in turn upgrades python2.1 to 2.2) 
<ariel_> and evaluated the impact on gnue?
<dneighbo> python 2.2 should work
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<ariel_> yes, but you have to move manually all the mx stuff from site-packages 2.1 to  site packages 2.2
<ariel_> i'm also checking what's wrong with postgres and psycopg.
<dneighbo> thats cause redhat sucks
<dneighbo> its not 'upgradable'
<dneighbo> we cant account for poor packaging
<dneighbo> you shouldnt have to 'move' things
<dneighbo> you should install the new rpms for those packages
<dneighbo> for python2.2
<ariel_> i'm just warning all
<ariel_> also postgres is updated so i need
<ariel_> 1 to convert the database
<ariel_> 2 to rebuild psycopg (for 2 reasons: python upgraded , pg upgraded)
<dneighbo> i stopped using redhat because too hard to upgrade :(
<dneighbo> i have 2 redhat 6.2 boxes left
<dneighbo> they will be upgraded to debian :)
<ariel_> i will try to fix up all the stuff tomorrow and issue a report
<ariel_> for lame rh users like me
<ariel_> there is something like red carpet under debian?
<jamest> apt-get
<jamest> :)
<jamest> actually i think there is 
<dneighbo> red carpet works on debian
<dneighbo> BUT WHY one would use it over dpkg tools
<dneighbo> would be beyond me
<dneighbo> its packages are more stale, less stable and constantly break other packages
<dneighbo> or least that was my experience with it
<dneighbo> perhaps its improved
<dneighbo> fwiw: i dont think that .deb is like millions times superior to .rpm
<dneighbo> i firmly believe its a combo of
<dneighbo> a. good updating utilities (apt-get)
<dneighbo> b. far superior packaging (debian team)
<dneighbo> i.e. its not the package format thats better
<dneighbo> its the way things are packaged and the quality control among the whole system that is better (imho)
<ariel_> i'm used to rh/ximian and lazy ,it is not so bad, but i will try  deb on the next box 
<jamest> um
<jamest> looks to be something called synaptic in the woody distro
<jamest> no clue how good it is
<ariel_> sorry, interesting stuff always to late for me 'cause timezone, going to sleep
<ariel_> hi all!
Action: ariel_ is away: sleep
<jamest> nite
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<stbain> greetz
<siesel> ariel_: the diagrams look quite complete.
<siesel> just two comments:
<siesel> geor is in a very very early state, so it will change much.
<siesel> 2. it would be great, if you could add a dottet line in usage.dia to make it clear which happen on client and which happens on server side.
<ariel_> siesel: 1. i will try to follow, 2. i'll do
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<siesel> ariel_: :)
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<siesel> dneigbo: I've looked at that xml to sql XSLT in DCLGWdneigbo: I've looked at that xml to sql XSLT in DCLGW. It would be great to use xml files to describe the default files for appserver.
<siesel>  /default files/default database tables/
<siesel> but can we just add the files to the appserver directory in cvs, or do we need a contrib directory or ... ?
<dneighbo> um let me process what you said :)
<dneighbo> hmmm im not sure what you mean by default db tables for appserver
<siesel> f.e. appserver_users for access  or appserver_triggers etc.
<dneighbo> the way i see us doing (for now at least) these types of files (not that it answers your question) is we check in the .xml file as well as the processed .sql files (so we dont make xslt processing a requirement for cvs users) yet :)
<dneighbo> siesel : i will say as long as you use the format im tickled pink
<dneighbo> so where you put the files im not going to gripe too much about
<dneighbo> i woul dlike to see us move samples and things like this out as well as docs of the modules
<dneighbo> but thats a major undertaking and we certainly dont all feel that way :)
<dneighbo> so for now i would put under appserver i suppose
<dneighbo> what ever you feel best about
<siesel> ok, but you think, that we shouldn't provide the xslt out of the DCL cvs in our CVS too ?
<siesel> just add a README which tells users where they can find that xslt file. right?
<dneighbo> siesel : um
<dneighbo> that belongs in common
<dneighbo> i think the pyxslt or whatever is in common/scripts or something
<dneighbo> we need to move the .xsl files over there though
<siesel> Does the copyright belongs to FSF? i.e. can I directly copy it?
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<stbain> hrmmm
<stbain> so the appserver code isn't ready for prime time, eh?
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<Chipaca> hi all
<siesel> stbains: Appserver 0.0.1 : "This release is primarily a proof-of-concept release that illustrates the use of GNUe-Common's database backends...."
<stbain> ok
<nickr> you guys seen this ? http://tamber.com/
<siesel> stbain: but if you have time it would be great if you could change that :)
<siesel>  /you could/ you could help us /
<stbain> siesel: sure
<stbain> just lemme know where to start
<siesel> hmmm..
<siesel> have you tested it?
<siesel> ther e
<stbain> haven't tested it
<siesel> ok. 1. step, test it (should be quite easy)
<siesel> at the moment only basic functionality is implemented.
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> nickr 
<dneighbo> from tamber faq
<dneighbo> Q. What license is Tamber released under?
<dneighbo> A. The GNU Lesser General Public Licence (LGPL) version 2.0, that means its free (as in beer) Visit http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html for the complete license.
<dneighbo> someone should tell him LGPL does not mean free (as in beer)
<dneighbo> but rather free (as in libre)
<dneighbo> perhaps i should email him and ask him if he would like dneighbo's version of tamber for 19.95 to help prove the point :)
<stbain> as in speech
<dneighbo> nickr its an interesting sounding thing, too bad it only works with MS ASP
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<siesel> In Appserver, there are some areas which should be discussed before more coding is done, f.e. triggers.
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<^chewie> dneighbo: tamber isn't indexed under google
<siesel> there isn't an overall trigger concept for whole gnue now. questions like 'Which trigger can be moved and should be moved from forms into appserver (or DB into appserver) if migrate 2-tier to 3-tier?' etc. 
<siesel> stbain: i.e. a good way to help appserver development is to propose and discuss different implementation models.
<stbain> unfortunately, I'm probably not qualified to do so
<stbain> I'd have to pour through all of the code thus far and take a look at the roadmap
<nickr> dneighbo: asp and javascript I thought.
<nickr> anyway.
<nickr> I just paste things that look related
<nickr> there is no editorial review
<siesel> ariel_ did some diagrams of the code.
<siesel> n8t
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<nickr> are there query languagse other than SQL?
<chillywilly> for a relational DB?
<nickr> ja
<nickr> well any database really
<nickr> it seems like we're trapped in a quagmire of sql
<chillywilly> there's a query language for OODMS - OQL ;)
<chillywilly> it is SQL-like though
<nickr> its like SQL limits my perspective
<nickr> I can't think of a better language
<nickr> I feel so non-critical
<chillywilly> why does SQL limit you?
<chillywilly> SQL makes you think in relational matters
<nickr> No it doesn't
<chillywilly> s/matters/terms
<nickr> SQL makes me think in SQL and thats it
<nickr> its hard to think of whats wrong with it and what would be better
<chillywilly> you ever use a join?
<nickr> yop
<chillywilly> brb
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<stbain> what's the status of menuitem/menubar widget implementation in Forms?
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<dtm> are you guys aware of http://compiere.org 
<dtm> ?
<chillywilly> don't you read the Kernel Cousins?
<stbain> dtm: yes
<stbain> not that I speak on behalf of the GNUe team, but we are very aware of it
Action: chillywilly shakes some sense into dtm
<stbain> we are also aware of the enormous costs involved in deploying it
<dtm> stbain: goodness me.
<dtm> stbain: is that due to Oracle?
<chillywilly> there's a whole thread on it a couple KCs back
<stbain> I believe it may have something to do with the J2EE as well
<chillywilly> Oracle and non-fee Java crap is what makes it undesirable
Action: dtm helps chillywilly out with a s/fee/free/
<stbain> from what I understand, the Postgres port is coming along, but still relies on Java
<chillywilly> yea, that too ;)
<dtm> chillywilly: just to ease up your continual typing retread mechanism there  :)
<dtm> hee hee
<chillywilly> you have to be consistent
<dtm> well java's alright, but oracle's gotta become optional :)
<dtm> chillywilly: that is true
<chillywilly> if I fuck up I want to correct it ;)
<stbain> Java is not alright to some
<stbain> in a purist sens
<stbain> e
<chillywilly> you could also say that it is quite 'anal'
<dtm> i'm sure if compiere works, it is way cheaper and better than the status quo of ERP
<dtm> stbain: yeah although i'm not sure how many licensing purists are in charge of multimillion dollar ERP
<stbain> true
<dtm> stbain: or how they could keep their job with that attitude  :)
<chillywilly> you mean freedom loving people ;)
<chillywilly> oh gawd
<dtm> chillywilly: no, i mean license purists
<stbain> dtm: if the ROI is great enough... idefinitely
<dtm> stbain: it's so awesome that so much open source software is usable for such tasks, but i do accept that there's a long, hard individual migration path in order to create a new market  :)
<stbain> well
<dtm> stbain: and it'll happen by steadily accepting a diminishing compromise  :)
<stbain> I'm working on it
<dtm> stbain: you do that  :}
<stbain> I'm also working on minimizing the compromize
<stbain> err... compromise
<dtm> stbain: cool
<chillywilly> OST seems to be doing well even for some license purists
<dtm> stbain: what's your job title
<stbain> Independent IT Business Consultant
<dtm> chillywilly: they kick all ass
<chillywilly> sorry, "license purists"
<dtm> chillywilly: there's a big difference when you have master ninja kung fu
<dtm> chillywilly: and are able to singlehandedly school your clients and the industry one by one
<chillywilly> oh yea and ERP is just so well-defined
<dtm> chillywilly: they are cool because they _can_ put business first, license second, and still win
<dtm> they win eventually
<chillywilly> we must put freedom first
<chillywilly> regardless of business
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<dtm> they've accepted a ton of compromise along the way, in deference to the big picture
<dtm> chillywilly: and that one dimensional, inflexible definition of freedom is why you're the $12/hr success story around here bro
<dtm> :)
<gnukiwi> hello
<dtm> lose it, and you win.  we'll all win.
<chillywilly> dtm: I have nothing further to say to you
<dtm> keep it and you'll ride the coattails of giants with the kung fu
<dtm> continuing to eat their dust
<dtm> chillywilly: o-tay
<chillywilly> dtm: who do you think you are?
<dtm> chillywilly: i think i'm free to enable my own choices of my own accord
<dtm> and hence the community, permanently
<chillywilly> dtm: yes and you are also free to be a jerk as is obvious from your personal attacks
<dtm> your zealotry would by definition make enabling viewpoints look like a personal attack
<stbain> wow
<stbain> that's not very nice
<dtm> and give you amnesia over all the idiotic pesonal attacks that you do make to me and anyone who says things that dont fit in your window
<dtm> makes ya vicious
<stbain> chillywilly: in contrast to dtm, I'd like to thank you for your contributions... the results of which are keeping food in my daughter's mouth
<stbain> nite all
stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) left irc: "dtm: give the guy a break... he's creating software for ALL OF US for FREE"
<dtm> yeah and he's creating a zealous and impotent reputation for all of us for free too
<dtm> not to mention bigoted and vicious personal insults according to skewed, inexperienced, incomplete definitions of 'freedom'
<dtm> no matter how benevolent or successful the idea is, he goes all RMS on ya if it's not in that tiny window
<chillywilly> heh, I made on statement about what I belove to be most important and you take this as a personal attack?
<dtm> that window is perfectly relevant but incomplete
<chillywilly> believe
<dtm> no, dan   as i said, Mr Selective Amnesia, you did so in #freedevelopers and you insult me by implying and stating that i dont understand freedom which is baseless nonsense
<chillywilly> I don't remember
<dtm> i know hence your nickname
<chillywilly> you need to get over it
<chillywilly> as it is clouding your judgement
<dtm> your extreme emotionally aggressive state you had as you charged out of the channel probably helpd you black it out, as usual
<chillywilly> making you irrational
<chillywilly> I haven't charged out of #freedevelopers
<chillywilly> I think you are making up some scenario in your mind
<dtm> no... you dont REMEMBER charging out of #freedevelopers just like EVERY OTHER TIME
<chillywilly> perhaps you are dilusional
<chillywilly> are you talking back in the day?
<dtm> that's how i _MET_ you, was you verbally beating the hell out of everyone in #dotgnu 
<chillywilly> yea, I was a bit unruly at times
<dtm> no like a week or two ago last time i talked with you
<dtm> a bit unruly is an understatement dan.  you have a public bigoted hostility problem.
<chillywilly> I didn't have any sort of disagreement with you a week or so ago
<chillywilly> what are you talking about?
<dtm> you have a problem understanding the priority of human and practical freedom vs. ideological and software freedom... and the fact that practicality and humans are what _makes_ software and ideas.  then you take it out on people.
<dtm> because they do see that priority.
<dtm> and you dont.
<chillywilly> I am an idealist, but I don't see how you can say I have such problems when there is real *pragmatic* idealism at work every day
<dtm> wlel maybe it was 3 weeks, i dont know.  it was when i started posting to fd-discuss
<chillywilly> it's called the GPL
<chillywilly> I never spoke to you about your posts on FD discuss
<dtm> no you didn't speak to me, you flamed me via telling it to someone else in the channel, then barged out
<dtm> and i read it later
<chillywilly> I might have commented in the channel, but you weren't around and I didn't barge out
<dtm> or else you just blurted it into the channel to me
<chillywilly> unfortunately, I don't have my IRC logs around anymore
<dtm> i really dont care whether it's logged; everybody knows that's how it is.
<chillywilly> yea, sure they do I just go around harassing people at a whim when they disagree...hmmm like you are now?
<dtm> and you can keep riding coattails all you want, but stop insulting people who are trying to implement a course
<chillywilly> and what am I doing? nothing?
<dtm> dan as long as you're in denial about your harassment, any direct response anybody makes to it will look like original harassment to you.
<dtm> if i said "stop harassing me" you'd take offense
<dtm> it's called DENIAL
<chillywilly> I'm not the one getting all offended
<chillywilly> there's no denial
<dtm> no not right now, you were before
<chillywilly> just dtm getting all bent out of shape trying to find things to say to hurt people
<chillywilly> it's rather petty
<chillywilly> I would expect more from you
<dtm> alright fine then drop it.. i stated my case that you need to stop flaming people and implying and stating that they misunderstand or oppose freedom.  period.
<dtm> that's it.
<chillywilly> saying we must put freedom first is not a flame at people
<dtm> no, telling me in /msg th;at i dont understnad free software, so the rest of the channel can't see it, is.
<chillywilly> I rather enjoyed your comments on FD discusss
Action: gnukiwi is getting bored
<dtm> okay well dan i know you did but i happen to know that you fly into moods where you say things that you dont even believe and that dont make sense
<dtm> just to hurt people and get some shit out
<chillywilly> dtm: that's the only logical explanation for you to think that their definition is not freedom, because right here in America we have things that protect freedom in order for it to be pragmatic
<dtm> but i made my point and i dont care if you understand it or not; it's plain as anything and i'm not gonna beat you up over it
<chillywilly> the GPL wants the 4 central freedoms to apply to everyone
<chillywilly> no one is beating anyone up, but just because you disagree doesn't mean you take what I say as a personal attack....I'm not the one trying to have a pissing match based on salary/earnings
<chillywilly> frankly, I don't care if you're Bill Gates that doesn't define someone as being sucessful in my book
<chillywilly> now, if you'll excuse me I have some code to finish up and contribute to GNU Common C++....possibly I can get it in before Dave releases Bayonne again ;)
jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-193-024.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hi jcater
<jcater> hi
<chillywilly> how's it hanging dude?
<jcater> low and to the left
<gnukiwi> hello jcater sir
<jcater> wassup?
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<jcater> this aj?
<gnukiwi> this is
<jcater> gnukiwi sounds like a cool, refreshing fruit
<jcater>                             ^free, 
<gnukiwi> hehe
<gnukiwi> a kiwi is actually a bird
<chillywilly> it's both isn't it?
<gnukiwi> nope
<jcater> dude
<jcater> kiwi is a kickass fruit
<jcater> http://www.kiwifruit.org/
<jcater> that's a kiwi
<chillywilly> I like it because it tastes like strwaberry, the best fruit ever ;)
<chillywilly> strawberry even
<jcater> chillywilly: true dat
<chillywilly> and it's fuzzy
<chillywilly> I like fuzzy things...
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> http://appetizerrecipe.com/AZ/KiwiFritSls.asp
<jcater> mmmm, mmmm delicious
<gnukiwi> we call a kiwifruit a kiwifruit, so as to not confuse it with the bird :)
<chillywilly> aaaah
<chillywilly> thanks dewd
<chillywilly> I am now edumacated
<gnukiwi> okee, lunchtime
<gnukiwi> it's rather quiet around these parts
<jcater> yeah, well
<jcater> there's been a strange bird hanging around
<gnukiwi> heh
<gnukiwi> that penguin?
<jcater> lol
<jcater> sure
<jcater> if that's what you wanna call it now
<chillywilly> :'(
stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<gnukiwi> hi stbain
<stbain> hello
<chillywilly> hiya
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<gnukiwi> yo dneighbo
<stbain> greetz
<dneighbo> hello
<chillywilly> masta
Action: gnukiwi goes back to playing with MS Access
<chillywilly> nooooooo ;)
<gnukiwi> just playing with ODBC drivers
<gnukiwi> using mysql on my box as the backend DB
<jcater> freak
<gnukiwi> hehe
<gnukiwi> got nothing better to do here
<gnukiwi> takes a little while to load a 22K record table over dialup tho
<chillywilly> oooh, I should switch to g++ 3.1
Action: gnukiwi wants some decent stuff to play with
<dneighbo> jcater: many thanks re:cvs
<dneighbo> was never intent for it to be an hour plus venture
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> you know you wanted it to be that way
<jcater> dneighbo: well, it's something I wanted to do at NCS
<jcater> for internal stuff
<jcater> so not time wasted
Action: gnukiwi wonders why there's no common 0.3.0 exe, is it unneeded?
<jcater> gnukiwi: included in designer.exe and forms.exe
<gnukiwi> jcater: alright, downloading them now to play
<stbain> gnukiwi: fire up designer after you edit your connections.conf file and see if you can select a connection from the file->connect to menu
<stbain> for some reason it likes to save me the trouble of closing designer whenever I do that
<chillywilly> hehe, that's a nice way to put it ;)
<gnukiwi> stbain: on 0.3.0 release? hmm k
<stbain> also, check the file->new->from wizard menu item and see if it actually presents you with any options (blank w/ a run wizard button for me)
<stbain> yah, I just downloaded 0.3.0 today
<chillywilly> we need a quick start guide
<chillywilly> someone suggested this ;)
Nick change: stbain -> someone
Nick change: someone -> stbain
<chillywilly> hehe
<jcater> I have a quick start guide
<jcater> it goes like this: 
Action: gnukiwi attempts to use phpmyadmin & phppgadmin over very lagged dialup
<chillywilly> uh oh
<jcater> $ xchat
<jcater>  /join #gnuenterprise
<dneighbo> jcater: any ideas on this windows crash and burn designer issue?
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> ?
<dneighbo> stbain: can you run designer from command line?
<chillywilly> pay attention jcater
<stbain> yes, hold a sec
<chillywilly> ;P
<dneighbo> and pass it --debug-level=10
<jcater> are you sure it's a valid connections.conf entry?
<dneighbo> and paste last 10 lines or so
<dneighbo> of output after crash
<dneighbo> jcater: he pasted for me and it seemed somewhat sane
Action: chillywilly waits for gnu common c++ to compile with g++ 3.1.1
<stbain> hrmm
<dneighbo> but regardless even with a hosed connections.conf it shouldnt just crash :)
<stbain> Could not load MySQLdb.  For MySQL support, please install
<stbain> mysql-python 0.9.0 or later fromhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python
<stbain> Error:  cannot import name MySQLdb.constants.FIELD_TYPE
<gnukiwi> so what connection drivers are available with the windows exe?
<dneighbo> ds;lkfsa;ld;lsjdaf;jsal;fdk
<dneighbo> afd;kfljajasfjkalfds
<dneighbo> ja;slfjddsjaf
<dneighbo> I HATE FRIGGIN MYSQL PYTHON DRIVERS!
<stbain> jcater: I have tried it with both 'localhost' and the IP address
<chillywilly> stbain: you neeed the driver dawg
<stbain> looks like that wasn't the issue anyways
<stbain> heh
<dneighbo> jcater: isnt this that stupid issue we fixed
<jcater> gnukiwi: should be: odbc, mysql, pypgsql
<jcater> dneighbo: this doesn't ring a bell
<dneighbo> stbain: fwiw we have had lots o issues with mysql driver
<stbain> qhh
<gnukiwi> jcater: cool, i have all those available to test :)
<stbain> err... ahh
<dneighbo> jcater: we had something where we were calling one way and then an update of the driver broke it
<chillywilly> my-es-que-hell
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<dneighbo> and we fixed it
<dneighbo> and  someone was changing mails with mysql driver list
<dneighbo> and posting back to us
<gnukiwi> dneighbo: because most people don't like mysql & therefore don't test the driver?
<dneighbo> seemed like a bug in their driver
Action: jcater remembrs that with pypgsql, but I don't recall that issue w/mysql
Action: jcater remembers fetchone vs fetchmany issues w/mysql
<dneighbo> jcater dont make me get out dcl
<dneighbo> yes thats it fetchone fetchmany
Action: dneighbo realizes this isnt same problem
<dneighbo> but probably a similar goof problem
<stbain> provider = odbc ?
<dneighbo> but one i was referencing as well was last windoze release the drivers were not installing properly
Action: gnukiwi attempts an openoffice install on a win95 box with 32MB of RAM :)
<dneighbo> if you have mysql odbc driver installed yes you could do that
<chillywilly> gnukiwi: ouch
<gnukiwi> mysql odbc driver has issues on current debian, i tried it with the openoffice stuff
<dneighbo> gnukiwi: iirc this is windowsXP or windowsME
<stbain> what are the ODBC connection parameters?
<chillywilly> I love it when it says, "please see the documentation for details"
<gnukiwi> dneighbo: ok, mysql odbc driver worked fine on winXP for me ~20min ago :)
<stbain> comment, provider, dsn?
Action: chillywilly kicks g++
<jcater> ODBC
<jcater> ====
<jcater> *** PythonWin ODBC [http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Downloads/ActivePython/Extensions/Win32all]
<jcater>     POSIX Support: YES
<jcater>     Win32 Support: YES [prebuilt binaries]
<jcater>     Platforms Tested:
<jcater>        ??? (We need your help!)
<jcater>     Description:
<jcater>        A commercial ODBC interface for Python written by Marc-André Lemburg.
<jcater>        Supports practically any database backend with ODBC drivers (are there
<jcater>        any without ODBC drivers?)
<jcater>     Example connections.conf entry:
<jcater>        [myconn]
<jcater>        provider=odbc           # Use the mxODBC adapter
<jcater>        service=mydsn           # The DSN connection string of the database
<jcater>     Notes:
<jcater>       1. This driver has not been fully tested.  If you are successfully using
<jcater>          this driver, please let us know.
<jcater>       2. This driver does not yet support schema introspection, so you will not
<jcater>          be able to use Wizards in GNUe Designer.
<jcater> oops, that POSIX=yes line is wrong
Action: jcater goes off to CVS to fix that
<stbain> ODBC works
<stbain> but you're right... no Wizards
<dneighbo> jcater can you tackle mysql direct driver now
<dneighbo> or better to have bug submitted (well i guess bug should be submitted regardless)
<jcater> um
<jcater> well
<jcater> wife is about to lock me out of bedroom
<jcater> so a bug report is probably better
<dneighbo> stbain: please run with mysql driver
<gnukiwi> so who's going to add introspection support to the ODBC driver then?
<dneighbo> from command line and do
Action: jcater doesn't keep MySQL installed on the home machine
<jcater> c/the home/any of his
<dneighbo> --debug-level=50 --debug-file=errorlog.gnue
<dneighbo> then email
<jcater> gnukiwi: it's not that simple
<dneighbo> common-support@gnuenterprise.org
<jcater> the underlying odbc driver (C driver) doesn't support the ODBC extensions
<gnukiwi> jcater: i know :)
<dneighbo> and in body of message explain the problem and attach errorlog.gnue to the email
<gnukiwi> oh
<gnukiwi> now that's a pain
<jcater> so until someone sends them a patch, not much we can do :)
<jcater> SO
<jcater> if you know anyone good in C that wants to contribute something
<jcater> (but insists on using C)
Action: gnukiwi is annoyed, can't access phppgadmin from here
<jcater> that might be a good project :)
<gnukiwi> yeah, perhaps :)
<jcater> stbain: while you're sending in bug reports
<jcater> you might want to submit a separate one
<stbain> for?
<stbain> first one already sent BTW
<jcater> that basically says "designer should capture error messages and display more friendly"
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> jcater: i would call shutting down and cleanup its memory friendly
<stbain> hrmmm
<stbain> wait
<stbain> I Think I may see the problem
<dneighbo> much friendly than jamest's forms eating all my X resources and crashing my box :)
<stbain> I have ActiveState Python installed on my system
<jcater> oh
<dneighbo> stbain: ah, maybe its looking in the python path
<stbain> and it looks like it's picking up the Python in c:\Python21 and trying to use the MySQL driver from there
<stbain> yah
<stbain> hold a esc
<stbain> lemme change my env variables
Action: jcater assumed you were using the pre-built .exe's
<jcater> doh!
<dneighbo> jcater: though this is something we will have to deal with
<dneighbo> he is using prebuilts
<stbain> yah
<jcater> oh
<jcater> hmm
<stbain> downloaded the 0.3.0 installers
<jcater> how bizarre
<stbain> hrmmm
<stbain> actually, c:\python21 isn't in my path
<jcater> McMillan installer should pickup our drivers before searching the python path
<jcater> that's really odd
<stbain> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<stbain> Could not load MySQLdb.  For MySQL support, please install
<stbain> mysql-python 0.9.0 or later fromhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python
<stbain> Error:  cannot import name MySQLdb.constants.FIELD_TYPE
<stbain> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<stbain> doh
<stbain> sorry
<stbain> errant paste
<jcater> lol
<stbain> I meant to paste...
<stbain> PATHEXT=.COM;.EXE;.BAT;.CMD;.VBS;.VBE;.JS;.JSE;.WSF;.WSH;.py;.pyw;.pyc;.pys
<stbain> notice the .py*
<gnukiwi> hehe, the desktop shortcut still tries to point to gfdesigner.exe, not gnue-designer.exe
<jcater> gnukiwi: really?
<jcater> sigh
<stbain> yah, same here
<stbain> i fixed it manually
<dneighbo> can one of you submit a bug report for that
<gnukiwi> woo, designer just did the disappearing act on me too
<jcater> stbain: is PYTHONPATH set to anything?
<dneighbo> designer-support@gnuenterprise.org
<jcater> um
<stbain> no PYTHONPATH set
<stbain> but I'm betting there are some registry entries
Action: jcater forgot why he was "um'ing"
Action: gnukiwi got the same 'Cannot load MySQLdb' error
<jcater> hrm
<jcater> sigh
<gnukiwi> and this is on a clean box, no other python stuff installed
<stbain> I'm moving c:\python21 to a temp dir to see if it fixes it
<gnukiwi> guess it's not getting pulled into the installer?
Action: dneighbo swears we had similar problem last release
<jcater> well
<chillywilly> beat designer into shape ;)
<jcater> unfortunately, the whole Win32-installer thingy isn't very automated
<stbain> doh... same error msg
<jcater> (this is windows after all :)
<chillywilly> everyone file bugs now!
<chillywilly> hehe, :)
<gnukiwi> yeah, i've used those progs a bit
<jcater> so it's quite possible with one of the builds something was ommitted
<jcater> HOWEVER
<gnukiwi> thanks to jcater's recommendations ;)
<jcater> this is why we went thru several prereleases
<jcater> so people would test setups we don't have
<gnukiwi> yep
<jcater> <cough> gnukiwi </cough>
<stbain> wait...
<gnukiwi> well i wasn't stuck with a windows box until now :)
<jcater> stbain: that was directed at gnukiwi, not you :)
<stbain> even after I moved my c:\python21 directory
<stbain> the errorlog is still reporting errors from a python exe in that dir
<stbain> thing py2exe embedded that path somehow?
<jcater> stbain: quite possible
<gnukiwi> everyone be picking on me now...
Action: jcater isn't really sure how the internals of py2exe works
<jcater> but it's quite possible that's the case
<stbain> that has to be it
<stbain> because it's referencing libraries in c:\python21\gnue\ that I uninstalled before I downloaded the .exe installers today
<jcater> I really must run
<stbain> nite 
<dneighbo> night
<jcater> if I don't, I'll have more time to GNUe than I wanted
<gnukiwi> night
<stbain> lol
<chillywilly> jcater: ;)
<jcater> as wife will probably make me sleep w/my keyboard
jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-193-024.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "nite"
<gnukiwi> hrmm, so what DB can i use with designer then? :)
<stbain> gnukiwi: just set up an ODBC connection to your MySQL database
<stbain> that works fine
<gnukiwi> stbain: ok
<stbain> my connections.conf reads:
<stbain> [ODBC]
<stbain> comment = Development Database via ODBC
<stbain> provider = odbc
<stbain> service = gnue
<gnukiwi> says unable to connect
<gnukiwi> how irritating
<stbain> actually, what's irritating is that even once you get connected to it, you still can't do anything with it
<stbain> heh
<gnukiwi> dneighbo: umm, is this a bug, where 'testODBC' fails but 'testodbc' works as a name? :)
<gnukiwi> actually no
<gnukiwi> it doesn't work with both, but 'testodbc' pops up a username/password dialog
<gnukiwi> seems to be going ahead with the right username/pass
<stbain> yikes
<stbain> major problems
<stbain> don't even know where to begin
<gnukiwi> oh?
<gnukiwi> like not much works?
<gnukiwi> time for me to run...
<gnukiwi> bye all
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<stbain> more like nothing works
<stbain> totally unusable
<dneighbo> hold the boat
<dneighbo> odbc works just no introspection (or it used to)
<dneighbo> stbain: there will be a fix very soon for mysql db driver
<stbain> well
<dneighbo> other option is to install from source
<stbain> yah
<stbain> funny.... you took the words right out of my mouth
<stbain> hehe
<dneighbo> please remember these are developer releases and none of the developers use windows
<stbain> yah
<dneighbo> we put up preleases and begged people to test
<dneighbo> you just happen to be one of the first to test mysql on windows for 0.3.0 :)
<stbain> well... as a tester, I can tell you that I can't even edit the properties of any widgets
<chillywilly> well, they shoulod get fixed and 0.3.1 should be released then, better late than never
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> stbain: i believe that is a wxwindows scrollbox issue
<dneighbo> if you move the property editor to upper left of your screen
<dneighbo> then make it large enough that all scrollbars disappear
<dneighbo> i will bet you can edit properties
<stbain> good call
<stbain> LOL
<dneighbo> btw: this behavior is pretty erratic
<dneighbo> and so its hard for us to submit bugs to wx on it
<dneighbo> i.e. we are trying ot isolate to see if its us being stupid or real bugs in wx
<dneighbo> fwiw: windows and certain themes in linux seem to make it more consistent :)
<stbain> well... now that I have a database connection and designer running
<stbain> what's my next step
<stbain> I have my ODBC connection available
<stbain> and it has somedumbtable
<stbain> which has two fields
<stbain> value - int
<stbain> and something - varchar 100
--- Tue Jun 25 2002