[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<jcater> 3.30?
<jcater> really early service?
<jcater> :)
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<derek> yeah 
<derek> service de world cup 
<derek> copa de mundial (en espanol)
<psu> nite ;)
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<ajmitch> hi psu
<ajmitch> how are you?
<psu> pretty good
<psu> how are you?
<psu> up late, if nothing else
<ajmitch> only 2:15
<ajmitch> still enduring the DotGNU meetathon
<psu> heh
<ajmitch> over a weekend i think the logs are about the size of 1-2 weeks of #gnuenterprise
<ajmitch> with about 10% of the useful content ;)
<psu> they should try #gnuenterprise - all IRC all the time
<ajmitch> perhaps 5%
<ajmitch> that's the problem when it's on slashdot, too many people with too little clue :)
<psu> well, I'm not volunteering to KC it
<ajmitch> i wouldn't want to inflict that on you ;)
<ajmitch> we even got ascii goatse.cx pr0n ;)
<psu> hmm
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<psu> I know dotGNU is meant to be "web services"
<ajmitch> yup
<psu> but even so...
<ajmitch> disturbing, no?
<psu> i finally found a copy of Capt Beefhart's Trout Mask Replica in the 
<chillywilly> ?
<psu> bargain bin at the record shop
<psu> now *that's* seriously weird
<ajmitch> disturbed
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<psu> hi jamest
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<psu> hi dneighbo
<psu> did you get up for the fusball in the end or was it too early?
<dneighbo> no i over slept
<dneighbo> will watch replay in 1 hour
<dneighbo> but i have so much going on
<dneighbo> who won
<dneighbo> and was it a game worth watching?
<psu> do you want to know?
<dneighbo> yeah
<psu> brazil
<dneighbo> noooooooooooooooooooo
<psu> I missed the 1st half myself
<psu> but
<dneighbo> i really wanted germany to win
<psu> apparently didn;t miss too much#
<psu> "we were beaten by the champs, would have been in the final ourselves otherwise"
<psu> ?#
<psu> i can definantly recommend the second half
<psu> the ref had a good game too
<psu> "Uncle Fester"
<jamest> hi
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<dneighbo> psu: no thats not why
<dneighbo> i just dont like brazil
<dneighbo> uncle fester is not a good ref (or at least i didnt think so)
<dneighbo> if its the guy im thinking of
<psu> colligna(sp?)
<psu> he reffed Eng v Arg
<psu> both FIFA and I seem to rate him as he gets 
<dneighbo> from like saudi i think
<psu> all the big/high-pressure games
<psu> bald-headed italian
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<dneighbo> www.joinedforce.nl/sapdb/ 
<dneighbo> for the logs 
<dneighbo> SAP DB now is getting a good portal :)
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<psu> back
<Yurik> psu: wb
<psu> thanks
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<sledge_> hi there
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<jcater> slow day today
Action: dneighbo has slept most of day
<dneighbo> 5 teenage boys wiped me out yesterday
<jcater> lol
<dneighbo> 5 hours of pool baseball/softball
<dneighbo> and 5 hours of car wash
<dneighbo> is more than this old man can handle
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<chillywilly> HAH
<chillywilly> old people....
<ajmitch> morning all
<jcater> morning
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<jcater> http://eltoday.com/article.php3?ltsn=2002-06-26-002-15-PS
<jcater> I don't recall hearing about this?
<jcater> shouldn't it have gone out to our gnue-announce list?
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<chillywilly> well I know dave said he was going to release on tuesday
<chillywilly> because my patch is too late to gnu common c++ for thread-safe streams is too late :(
<chillywilly> woops
<chillywilly> I am redundant
<jcater> this coming tuesday?
<jcater> or this past tuesday?
<ajmitch> hi dneighbo
<ajmitch> & other mortals
<chillywilly> past tuesday
<chillywilly> which it seemed turned out to be wednesday
<ajmitch> which would have been thursday here :)
<chillywilly> yea, srure whatever
<chillywilly> we cannot count people who live their lives upside down
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: chillywilly ducks
<jcater> http://eltoday.com/article.php3?ltsn=2002-06-12-001-15-PS
<chillywilly> quack
Action: jcater is getting caught up on his news
<chillywilly> we need CRM ;)
<jcater> screw CRM
<jcater> we just need Financials
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> ;P
<jcater> that's be a big first step
<chillywilly> yea
<jcater> s/'s/'d
<chillywilly> any package would
<chillywilly> :-O
<jcater> true dat
Action: jcater would be happy with a simple rental management app :)
<chillywilly> so J.D. Edwards uses IBM's Websphere?
<chillywilly> why is that?
<chillywilly> you have rental property?
<jcater> yes
<chillywilly> funky
Action: ajmitch wonders what's up with the new schema stuff in designer
<chillywilly> that's so you csn design db schemas right?
<chillywilly> s/csn/can
<jcater> yip
<chillywilly> kewl
<jcater> unrelated (probably) to our packaging
Action: ajmitch couldn't
<chillywilly> ajmitch: wa?
<ajmitch> i couldn't design new schemas or nuffin!
<chillywilly> I found these tutorials helpful --> http://www.utexas.edu/cc/database/datamodeling/dm/erintro.html
<chillywilly> just to refresh my brain on db stuff
<jcater> ajmitch: it don't work just yet
<ajmitch> chillywilly: no, i mean designer was non-functional for that
<jcater> right now only the schema Wizard works
<jcater> (somewhat)
<ajmitch> it does?
<chillywilly> yea, yea
<ajmitch> but once the wizard is done, the schema stuff don't show? :)
<ajmitch> or is that just my box
<jcater> nope
<jcater> but you can save :)
<ajmitch> ah ok :)
<ajmitch> and then do what with the schema? ;)
<chillywilly> jcater: so these schemas will be written in our super cool xml format?
<jcater> um
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> they are written using the supper-cool XML that DCL already uses
<jcater> s/pp/p
<ajmitch> oh kewl
<chillywilly> yea, that's what I meant
<chillywilly> same difference
<jcater> well, almost
Action: ajmitch uses the supercool introspection in the schema wizard, adds all 7 tables, and saves
<chillywilly> I don't understand the notation in dia in their ER diagrams..anyone know exactly what type of diagram that is?
<chillywilly> er, I mean type of notation they are using
<chillywilly> what I am used to is the attributes inside the entities
<chillywilly> they have a freakin' oval thingy for an attribute
<ajmitch> what?
<dneighbo> i promise im working on financials
Action: ajmitch wonders what chillywilly is doing
<dneighbo> and CRM both
<dneighbo> just slowly
<dneighbo> being a youth pastor is totally completely rewarding
<dneighbo> but once the kids (most of who have no male figures in their life) get comfy with you
<chillywilly> ajmitch: an ER diagram using dia
<ajmitch> dneighbo: is that why www.gnue.org is a non-GNUeish site? :)
<dneighbo> they demand a LOT of time
<ajmitch> cool site tho
<dneighbo> ?
<ajmitch> dneighbo: take a look at it
Action: jcater was an Assistant Youth Pastor for a while
<jcater> and that took up most of my free time
<ajmitch> oh?
Action: jcater can't imagine being the actual Youth Pastor
<dneighbo> um crap
<dneighbo> gnue.org got moved to another new server
<dneighbo> and well something must not have been done properly
Action: ajmitch saw jade's name on that site
<chillywilly> http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/354/zaiane/material/notes/Chapter1/node7.html
<chillywilly> see the diagram there
<chillywilly> that's the notation dia uses
<chillywilly> weee
<dneighbo> the awakening is where jade is like an assistant youth pastor (iirc)
<dneighbo> anyone here use IMAP mail
<jcater> yes
<jcater> holy sh^%$#%$#t
Action: jcater was searching for jcater+gnue on google
<jcater> and a site about Viagra comes up
<dneighbo> roflmao
<jcater> no shit!
<chillywilly> rofl
<jcater> no, way
<jcater> some of y'all are on there too
<dneighbo> how do you set filter rules?
<jcater> http://www.memory-parts.com/viagra_pc1.html
<dneighbo> for imap mails
<dneighbo> i assume its not done in your email client?
<jcater> I use procmail
Action: chillywilly too
<dneighbo> ?
<dneighbo> on the server?
<dneighbo> i guess im confused
<jcater> on the server
<chillywilly> I use fetchmail to pull the mail and delivery locally
<jcater> I do my filtering on the server
<dneighbo> well i think i will use smtp for outgoing (unless you can do via imap)
<dneighbo> but i want my filtering to happen on the server
<jcater> ok
<jcater> not a problem
<dneighbo> so regardless of what client im using it happens
<jcater> log into your imap server
<jcater> and edit your .forward file
<jcater> it needs to contain:
<jcater> "| /usr/bin/procmail -t"
<dneighbo> i guess i will get with jade on that (as i know he does server filtering for himself)
<jcater> oh
<jcater> I was gonna walk you thru it
<dneighbo> for some reason i cant get my pop mail and it amkes me want to cry
<dneighbo> jcater: i will ask you again later once i get all my mail sending there
<dneighbo> right now it would be hard to test well
<jcater> did anyone check out that viagra page?
<dneighbo> its most odd
<dneighbo> the server for pop3 is up
<dneighbo> i can login to it but i run pine, pine hangs
<dneighbo> if i try a remote client
<dneighbo> it connects
<dneighbo> login's
<dneighbo> and then hangs during UIDL (thats what sylpheed calls it)
<chillywilly> hehe
<dneighbo> im trying mutt
<chillywilly> the viagra page is funny
<dneighbo> hahhahahah
<dneighbo> its an irclog
<dneighbo> hmm mutt pretty much hangs too
<dneighbo> jcater: im on mission to check out sap much closer as well
<dneighbo> as i found out they have OLAP functions too (or so it seems)
Action: dneighbo needs more time
<dneighbo> but anyone in searching and talking with sap db community did you know there is an 'oracle mode'
<dneighbo> for SAP DB
<jcater> really?!?!?!?
<dneighbo> i.e. it is a mode that lets you use ORACLE SQL QUERY syntax
<dneighbo> out of box
<jcater> btw
<jcater> since you are setting up procmail filtering for the first time
<dneighbo> i REALLY like the SAP DB  community and SAP
<jcater> I'd HIGHLY recommend you install spamassassinwhile you are at it
<dneighbo> someone was trying to start a user group
<dneighbo> and i said they really needed a good sap portal with tutorials, articles, howto's, samples etc
<dneighbo> the SAP guy responded and gave url to a wiki we could use (me doenst like wiki, so sue me)
<dneighbo> and said he wished sap would do something better, but it was resources issues and policy wouldnt let them give access to anyone outside sap to making pages
<jcater> what's this url?
<dneighbo> but then within 12 hours someone posted this
<dneighbo> http://www.joinedforce.nl/sapdb/
<dneighbo> i.e. they went and created a portal (postnuke i think) from the thread
Action: jcater rushes off to join their mailing lists
<dneighbo> jcater: go to http://www.sapdb.org
<dneighbo> and on front page in lower left corner click link
<dneighbo>  Please see the new documents Oracle SQL Mode: SAP DB 7.3 and Evaluating System Tables: SAP DB 7.3
<dneighbo> hmmm maybe it doesnt do syntax translation
<dneighbo> i was thinking somewhere i read that it did
<jcater> well
<jcater> that's not my big hangup
<jcater> my big hangup is 1) their triggers are differnt than oracle's
<jcater> and 2) GNUe Forms doesn't have an Oracle SQL-Forms emulation mode
<jcater> :)
<jcater> wow
<jcater> this sapdb resource site is pretty cool
<jcater> not bad for something that was put up today
<jcater> hmmmm
<jcater> <lightbulb going off in jcater's head)
<jcater> do they have a sample databasE?
<dneighbo> laure, dial 911
<dneighbo> there is a wild fire starting in memphis
<dneighbo> ignited by overworked lightbulb i think
<jcater> I know oracle has had the same sample database (scott/tiger) since like Oracle 5
<dneighbo> um SAP does i think
Action: jcater thinks if so we should create GNUe Forms + Reports for their sample database
<dneighbo> pretty darn sure they do (a large one iirc)
<dneighbo> i havent gotten things up and running just yet
<jcater> then become active in their community
<dneighbo> no time yet :(
Action: jcater wishes they were apt-gettable
<jcater> :(
<dneighbo> i want to desperately get working environment
<dneighbo> jcater: that has been a large part of my delay
<dneighbo> was workingg with jbailey
<dneighbo> on getting that to happen
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> for that matter
<jcater> where tf are our debs ?
<dneighbo> same place as dcl's 
<dneighbo> in limbo
<jcater> sigh
Action: dneighbo glares in direction of ajmitch
<jcater> we NEED to get whatever ppl have in CVS
<ajmitch> dneighbo: hey!
<jcater> as others can look at it and give suggestions / help with roadblocks
<jcater> hint, hint
<jcater> ...
<dneighbo> agree
<dneighbo> agree, agree
<jcater> pizza, pizza
<jcater> oops, wrong channel
<dneighbo> well i need to clean out my inbox
<dneighbo> and then start squashing dcl bugs
<dneighbo> before i get put to slaughter
<dneighbo> hmmm 2 pizza's yummy
<jcater> while we're discussing CVS
Action: jcater really thinks we need to get samples into /samples or /demos or such
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<ajmitch> interesting
Action: ajmitch just ran setup-cvs.py on GNU/Hurd, fwiw
Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( %s 15| 0:00 )15=14-
<derek> sigh my computer got stolen by a stray teenager and my oldest daughter
<derek> someone found out how to play vs mode in frozen bubble :(
<ajmitch> hehe :)
<derek> not hehe
<derek> i wanted to get some work done
<ajmitch> how old is daughter?
Action: ajmitch thinks kids should be kicked off computer :)
<derek> and my laptop is crappy old red hat and so getting frozen bubble would be painful
<derek> daughter is 7
<derek> suprisingly she can get to level 35 or so pretty quickly
<derek> but not past it
<ajmitch> pretty good
<jcater> ssh -t dneighbo@lattitude kill -9 \`ps aux|grep frozen|awk \'\{print \$2\}\'\`
Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( Aha - Take On Me 15| 3:50 )15=14-
<derek> jcater s/lattitude/aegagrus
<jcater> oops
<derek> im on latitude now
<jcater> didn't mean to kill your frozen bubbles :)
<jcater> roflmao
<jcater> I love sapdb
<jcater> this is their startup:
<jcater> jcater:/opt/sapdb/indep_prog# bin/x_server
<jcater> INFO 10004: Vserver started.
<jcater> jcater:/opt/sapdb/indep_prog#
<jcater> woo hoo! that's informative :)
<ajmitch> gah, can't run appserver
<derek> guess it went well then
<jcater> well
<jcater> it's in my ps list
<derek> maybe they use the unix philopshy
Action: ajmitch needs the PyXML package
<derek> if its going well why bother telling you (things should work, why tell you they do)
<derek> and force a -v if you need to see working messages :)
<jcater> PyXML?
<jcater> for what?
Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( The B-52's - Cosmic Thing 15| 3:53 )15=14-
<ajmitch> jcater: appserver requires it
<jcater> um
Action: jcater wonders why
Action: jcater worked hard to get rid of that dependency
<ajmitch> dunno, but it chokes without it :)
<chillywilly> what's the debian package name for forozen bubble?
<chillywilly> frozen
<ajmitch> hurd:~/gnue# gacvs
<ajmitch>    This GNUe tool requires PyXML to be installed.
<ajmitch> Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
<ajmitch>   python-xml: Depends: python2.1-xml (>= 0.7.1-1) but it is not installable
<ajmitch> how irritating :)
<derek> rock
<jcater> jcater:/opt/sapdb/depend# apt-cache search frozen bubble
<jcater> frozen-bubble - Pop out the bubbles !
<derek> frozen bubble has colorblind version :)
<chillywilly> derek: you're colorblind?
<derek> http://guillaume.cottenceau.free.fr/fb/fb-cb.png
<derek> 1.0.0 shoudl have 100 levels
<jcater> chillywilly: yes he is
<jcater> haven't you ever seen the outfits he wears 
<jcater> in those pics he pastes
<chillywilly> rofl
<jcater> ?
<ajmitch> haha
<derek> roflmao
<derek> sigh looking at sheer number of dependencies for fb, scares me from even considering it on red hat
Action: ajmitch adds deb-src line so he can build python2.1-xml
<derek> i should just nut up and wipe this machine and install debian on it tonight
<jcater> might as well
<jcater> I mean, you email is shot
<jcater> s/you/you're
<derek> true
<jcater> how much worse cna it get?
<derek> not much
<derek> can someone tell me easy way to do net install of debian
<derek> as i only have potato disks
<derek> and i want unstable
<derek> or woody
Action: jcater has never done a net install
<ajmitch> get the netinsta iso?
<ajmitch> oops
<derek> and normally i have been doing a potato install and an apt get dist-upgrade
<derek> since i have done that before maybe thats the safest for me
Action: derek needs to rsync some stuff
<derek> and i will be back
<chillywilly> how do you shoot?
<derek> up arrow
Action: derek is currently listening to : 14-15=( Culture Club - I'll tumble 4 ya 15| 2:38 )15=14-
<chillywilly> thanks
<derek> no prob
<derek> dont become a fb addict
<jcater> just.... one.... most.... level....
<jcater> s/most/more
<derek> roflmao
<derek> now this is classic
<derek> Metallica / jeremy pearl jam cover (acoustic)
<derek> ALMOST as good as foo fighters stair way to heaven cover
Action: jcater guesses you have to be listening to the music to get the humor
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<derek> can anyone else not gett to gnutella.org
Action: jcater is there
<derek> hmmm i get 0kb transferred and a blank page
<fitzix> hey there derek - it works for me
<derek> i have youth looking to experience fun of music 'trading'
<derek> he runs windows
<jcater> roflmao
<derek> (he ran debian for a while but his peers nagged him back to windows) :(
<jcater> you are such a bad influence
<jcater> Mr Youth Pastor
<derek> i dont know of a good file sharing client
<fitzix> grr - flail his peers
<derek> hey now he asked me not other way around
<derek> never mind he heard lots of LEGAL
<derek> compilation cd's i have mading by 'timeshifting' in my car
<fitzix> hehe
<jcater> fyi: http://www.mybytes.de/sapdb/
<derek> jcater: have booked marked already :)
<derek> http://www.sapdb.org/sap_db_links.htm
<derek> is a good source of some similar links
<derek> http://sapdb.2scale.net/moin.cgi
<derek> is a wiki
<derek> i think its gonna take a while to rsync this machine
<derek> though many of the files shouldnt have changed
<chillywilly> fb rules
<jcater> cool
<jcater> that wiki is python-based running under debian :)
Action: jcater likes the sapdb guys more and more
<jcater> several of their admin scripts are python
<jcater> at least, the few I've seen posted on their site
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<derek> yip
<jcater> sigh
Action: jcater is nervously upgrading to KDE 3.0.1
<ajmitch> good luck!
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<jcater> argh!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#
<jcater> ajmitch: you here?
<jcater> or chillywilly?
<jcater> or any debian apt stud ?
<chillywilly> yea, wassup?
<jcater> I'm in the middle of an apt-get mess
<chillywilly> aaaaw sheeeeit
<jcater> what file do I need to edit to tell apt it shouldn't install something
<jcater> i.e., it's not available, or something
<chillywilly> what did you do exactly?
<jcater> installed KDE 3 :)
<jcater> ooooo
<jcater> I may have it
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<jcater> whew
<jcater> I survived
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<derek> rofl'
<chillywilly> kewl, I didn't know postgres does multiversion concurrency control
<chillywilly> seems like a neat locking scheme
Action: chillywilly takes some notes
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--- Mon Jul  1 2002