[00:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<ajmitch> great :)
Action: ajmitch runs cvs2cl for curiousity reasons
<dneighbo> what was wrong with with defines.php
Action: dneighbo didnt seem to run into a problem there
<dneighbo> i.e. fonts were not required in my version
<MicahY> hmm they were here
<dneighbo> ok 2 out 3 security holes fixed 1 left
Action: MicahY will try to set defaults in the pg schema
<chillywilly> where atre defaults not set?
<MicahY> crap this will take time
<MicahY> mysql has defaults on nearly every column!
<chillywilly> where do you specify connection params for this app?
<MicahY> in defines.php
<MicahY> defaults are not set at all in pgsql.  I guess the script missed them. :(
<dneighbo> exactly :)
<dneighbo> thats why i said if going to play best to do right
<dneighbo> i.e. try jcater's new tool
<dneighbo> in designer
<dneighbo> load the mysql schema
<dneighbo> then run designer tool to make xml schema from the mysql db
<dneighbo> then shoudl be able to use that xml schema to make create scripts
<dneighbo> cept for indexes i think
<dneighbo> but its a good start
<MicahY> ok maybe jcater should do it then... :)
<dneighbo> or just modify the psql script as we find them
<dneighbo> either way
<dneighbo> i was going to just patch the postgres file
<MicahY> pg's alter table command can do it, so I can just do that and run a pgdump to produce a new script
<dneighbo> as i went 
<chillywilly> MicahY: are you running acclite or Nola?
<dneighbo> acclite
<MicahY> they're the same
<chillywilly> yea
<chillywilly> where's the original mysql script at?
<MicahY> but I'm running our branch if that's what you mean
<MicahY> original script is in official nola 1.2 from noguska
<chillywilly> that's what you were looking at?
<MicahY> yeah
<chillywilly> oh
<MicahY> ok for now I'll just worry about the tables I'm trying to use
<MicahY> no need to do everything at once
<chillywilly> well people I am off to la la land
<chillywilly> g'night
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<MicahY> hmmmmm. 'accounttype' has no defaults
<MicahY> and one of the problems was adding an account type
<MicahY> then going to edit that type later
<MicahY> it just added a new type with id 0
<MicahY> which is bad
<MicahY> so there's more than just no default problems
<ajmitch> was possbily using autoincrement for id
<ajmitch> which hasn't been carried over to posgres
<MicahY> create table accounttype (
<MicahY>      id int not null unique,
<MicahY>      description char(30) not null,
<MicahY>      primary key(id));
<MicahY> nope
<MicahY> it simply didn't ask for or save an accounttype id
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<dneighbo> i saw mail from stbain that said this was beta (even their stuff)
<dneighbo> its quite possible no one has tried to add additional types yet
Action: dneighbo should setup NOLA + MySQL out of box then setup Acclite + Postgrs
<dneighbo> er Postgres
<dneighbo> so can do side by side comparisons when there are issues
<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi ajmitch
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<dneighbo> sigh getting caught up on email oh so fun
<dneighbo> btw ajmitch you going to do dcl packages
<psu> I find d 1-65 works for me ;-)
<dneighbo> i hope ASAP to have a security release out the door
<ajmitch> dneighbo: jbailey is meant to be the DCL deb packager
<dneighbo> sigh
<ajmitch> i'll try & get hold of him when he's on irc next
<dneighbo> MicahY: how goes the war over there
<ajmitch> but i'd have to start debs from scrath - not easy to do
<MicahY> derek: got sidetracked, was reading some websites. :)
<MicahY> ok getting back to it. :)
<MicahY> am adding the defaults to the glaccount table
<MicahY> we'll see if that fixes THAT bug...
<MicahY> wait there ARE defaults in the PG... what the heck...
<ajmitch> uhm?
<MicahY> yeah now I'm confused.  I thought we determined that the defaults didn't convert to PG, but apparently they did...
Action: psu would normally do defaults in the UI rather than in the db
<psu> i.e. have a drop down list with "foo" as the first, auto-selected, choice unless you change it
<psu> but what do I know?
<MicahY> yeah but we just need to get this to work with the nola web stuff.  LOTS of PHP code
Action: psu shudders
<ajmitch> MicahY: we've found our php hacker! come on psu, join in! :)
<psu> bad php makes bad python look like good C
<psu> or something
<MicahY> ah so *derek* started the idea that there were no defaults set in PG!
Action: MicahY had to go back in the log to figure out how that idea started. :)
<MicahY> I don't even know that it's bad PHP.  There's just a lot of it.  Actually the design doesn't seem too bad from what I see.
<psu> fair enough
<MicahY> it's fairly modular... DB access abstraction... other abstraction even.... like for UI stuff
<psu> my comment was based on 
<psu> reading a book on php & thinking "hey, not too bad, reminds me of old 1980s BASIC"
<psu> & then looking at some php code (I think it was phpNuke) & thinking 
<psu> WTF...
<psu> but then, IANAP (i am not a programmer)
<MicahY> WHAT IN THE #%$#@%$#@$#@%
<ajmitch> ah, phpnuke :)
<MicahY> I thought Mozilla's "view source" bug was fixed!
<ajmitch> blank page?
<MicahY> Now I'm trying to view HTML source on a POSTed page and it's asking if I want to re-post it.  I click cancel and it gives a blank page.
<MicahY> do I have to use konqueror???
<MicahY> ok it says the postdata has expired from cache
<MicahY> also the BACK button reposts
<MicahY> so we probably just need to tweak some HTTP headers
<MicahY> I hate it when you can't even press the back button. :(
<psu> to be fair
<MicahY> DOUBLE WHAT IN THE @#%$#@%#@$#
<psu> (although, to be fair, I am not known for being fair)
<MicahY> tried it again, giving mozilla permission to re-POSt
<psu> in db-based web apps
<psu> back button can be misleading 
<MicahY> now the page renders inside the view source window, instead of showing source!!!!
<psu> as people think it = undo
<psu> but you've still committed your changes
<MicahY> agreed
<MicahY> but I know what I'm doing
<MicahY> and want to use it. :)
Action: psu is becoming more of an anti-web apps zealot than dneighbo
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: MicahY fires up conqueror
<MicahY> s/c/k/
<MicahY> agreed re: web apps.  they're HIGHLY overrated.
<dneighbo> MicahY: in the pg schema there may have been defaults
<dneighbo> but there were not on glaccount
<dneighbo> i added them to my local version
<dneighbo> its possible i checked that in but im not certain
Action: dneighbo is trying to kill last of the dcl issues
<MicahY> I'm checking my current copy (that I just got from CVS) and most tables have defaults
<dneighbo> btw dcl is a nicely laid out php app (probably best i have seen)
<psu> dcl rox my sox
<MicahY> whaaaa hasn't noguska heard of CRs?
<MicahY> in the html source for a glacctadd screen the form is all on one line
<MicahY> 1614 columns!
<psu> maybe they wrote it on a Mac
<psu> ;-)
<psu> anyway
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Action: MicahY wonders if Mac OS X uses UNIX-like line terminators...
<Isomer> MicahY: Unlikely :)
<Isomer> I think Apple spent a lot of time making programs use either/or :)
<dneighbo> well im off to bed
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<Arturas> Hello
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<siesel> hello
<siesel> ariel_: I got your mail. I like that new usage.dia :)
<Arturas> hi
<ariel_> siesel: hi, sorry, i'm not always at the terminal
<siesel> me too.
<siesel> btw. do you have an assignement? i.e. cvs access?
<ariel_> siesel: i signed fsf assignement
<ariel_> but i don't have cvs access
<ariel_> i don' remember either if i have an account in www.gnuenterprise.org
<ariel_> may be i submitted but forgot id
<siesel> hmmm. I'm not shure about the future cvs access policy..
<ariel_> any mean to check?
<ariel_> this is not crucial at the moment, i can email to you
<ariel_> the files
<siesel> yes, I will put in appserver/docs/dia/
<ariel_> thx.
<ariel_> :)
<ariel_> i have a question:
<ariel_> why the client is derived from geasClientApp and has a member derived from geasRPCClientApp
<ariel_> instead of deriving directly?
<siesel> because the test code is in test.py (geasClientApp), and geasRpcClient is just using this code.
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<siesel> hi Chad
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<Arturas> does anyone know what for file /designer/src/DataSourceEditor.py is for?
<^chewie> hey, sie
Action: ^chewie hasn't looked at it yet.
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<btami> hi all
<Arturas> hi
<btami> hi Arturas
<btami> i'v find a littel bug in forms
<btami> can you help me to fix it in CVS?
<btami> it is in GFDisplayHandler.py line #89
<btami> when an entry is a checkbox, self.display is integer (0 or 1), so
<btami> string.split is fails
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<Arturas> bye
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<dneighbo> good morning sir, and welcome to mcChickenWorld
<dneighbo> would like to try our spicy mustard chicken strips today?
<jcater> lol
<jcater> no, just the plain, old dry ones
<dneighbo> would like fries with that?
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<psu_> hi
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<Chipaca> hi all
<psu_> hi Chipaca
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Action: Chipaca has a 15-day break on finals and feels on vacation
Action: psu_ has a real vacation week after next
<Chipaca> niah niah niah
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<psu_> ah, the intellectual cut and thrust that is #gnuenterprise... ;-)
<dneighbo> ToyMan you get my email about tryign to connect
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<ToyMan> yes
<ToyMan> havn't had time to look into it yet
<ToyMan> working on new factory bldg
<ToyMan> you guys are gutting nola *really* thouroughly, yes?
<jcater> not really gutting
<jcater> as much as making it work with postgresql instead of mysql
<ToyMan> well, that's a start
<ToyMan> but.... a browser based interface?
<jcater> err
<jcater> first step is to get schema into postgres
<ToyMan> based on php???
<jcater> so it works with current php logic
<ToyMan> good first step
<jcater> then when we have the schema down
<jcater> we create replacement GFDs for the PHPs
<ToyMan> cool
<jcater> that's the plan at least
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<^chewie> hmm
<^chewie> is pgdb.py the "suggested" python api for postgresql?
<^chewie> I've seen a few python projects using it now, but I've seen very little support for it on, say Debian
<jcater> I owuld avoid pgdb.py myself
<^chewie> what have your observations been on it?
<jcater> well
<jcater> the PyGreSQL ppl created pg.py
<jcater> which is a pretty impressive library
<jcater> afterwards, the DB-SIG group of Python came up with the DB-SIG 2 standard
<jcater> so the PyGreSQL ppl
<jcater> created pydb.py
<jcater> which is a DB-SIG layer around their pg.py
<jcater> BUT
<jcater> most of the PyGreSQL do not use the pgdb.py portion, only their original pg.py
<jcater> so there have been quite a few untested "features" of pgdb.py
<jcater> I would go with psycopg or pypgsql 
<jcater> as they were designed fomr the ground up
<jcater> to work as a DB-SIG module
<dneighbo> i like to go psyco personally ;)
<dneighbo> pun intended
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Action: jcater isn't dissing the PyGreSQL ppl in any way
Action: ^chewie nods
<jcater> as their original module was/is pretty feature-complete
<jcater> just non-standard
Action: ^chewie nods
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<ra3vat> hello all
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<jcater> any postscript experts around?
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<dneighbo> i used to fight PCL a lot, some postscript
<dneighbo> whats up
Action: jcater has an EPS logo I need to embed in postscript output
Action: jcater is using Python to generate the postscript
<jcater> and the logo used to be a TIFF image converted to an EPS
<jcater> I've tried 
<jcater>  /MyLogo { <PASTE CONTENTS OF EPS HERE> } def
<jcater> so I could just call 
<jcater> MyLogo
<jcater> in the Postscript file
<jcater> but this bombs
<jcater> how do you do logos?
Nick change: stuq_ -> ToyMaN
<dneighbo> um may i ask what you are doing with postscript/python
<dneighbo> i.e. are you building an adapter for reports
<jcater> something I need done tomorrow
<jcater> for NCS
<dneighbo> or is this something custom
<jcater> that I really want to use GNue Report for
<jcater> but don't have time :(
<jcater> internal project
Action: jcater thinks i just figured it out
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> no, still no go
<jcater> dneighbo: how do you handle EPS logos in Postscript files?
<jcater> or do you?
<dneighbo> yes i do
<dneighbo> getting you a sample
<dneighbo> from GNUe even :)
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<jcater> what did you use to create the EPS to begin with?
<jcater> depending on the app I use to create the EPS, the resultant postscript error changes
<jcater> i.e., Photoshop & gimp produce similar EPS files, and get same error (go figure)
<jcater> ImageMagick gives completely different error
<dneighbo> %%BeginDocument: reporter.eps
<dneighbo> %!PS-Adobe-3.0 EPSF-3.0
<dneighbo> %%Creator: GIMP PostScript file plugin V 1.10 by Peter Kirchgessner
<dneighbo> %%Title: /home/dneighbo/cvs/gnue/submittal/reporter/reporter.eps
<dneighbo> %%CreationDate: Wed Aug 23 15:38:29 2000
<dneighbo> %%DocumentData: Clean7Bit
<dneighbo> %%LanguageLevel: 2
<dneighbo> %%Pages: 1
<dneighbo> %%BoundingBox: 14 14 440 319
<dneighbo> %%EndComments
<dneighbo> if you look in www/docs/reporter.ps
<dneighbo> on ash
<dneighbo> you will see an example of postscript w/ imbedded .eps file
<dneighbo> orginigal file is .png
<dneighbo> the sample you see there has the .eps directly embedded into the file
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I guess I will have to do it that way
Action: jcater was trying to make a macro that would print out the logo
<jcater> as a typical report will have 200-400 instances of these logos
<jcater> but I guess I'll have to insert the actual EPS data in each of these 200-400 places
<jcater> that'll make for one helluva print job :)
<dneighbo> dont slap me but any reason you are doing in raw postscript instead of somethign like latex?
<jcater> well
<jcater> I don't see an advantage from one to the other
<jcater> except that there's no intermediate processing here
<jcater> the long term goal is to make GNUe Reports capable of doing this job :)
<dneighbo> ok thats an acceptable answer the last one :)
<dneighbo> as the advantage i see is LaTeX is much more usable/friendly than postscript but has disadvantage of extra processing
<jcater> for a one-shot project, I don't see an advantage
<jcater> (plus, I know postscript better than TeX :)
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<chillywilly> can someone give me a quick example of an update sql statement...I cannot recall the syntax
<chillywilly> update table...
Action: chillywilly draws a blank
<jcater> update donuts set quantity = quantity - 12 where variety = 'Glazed';
<chillywilly> thanks
<jcater> np
<dneighbo> update donuts set quantity = quantity - 12 where uppercase(variety) = 'GLAZED'
<dneighbo> just to be safe
<jcater> and break any indexes on Variety?
<jcater> I think not
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> hehe
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<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I need a clone
<jcater> or two
<jcater> or a mini-me
<jcater> oooooooo
<jcater> that would rock
<chillywilly> heh
<dneighbo> um no lets stick to a clone
<jcater> "mini-jc: patch that python code, boy!"
Action: dneighbo isnt liking the mini-jcater look ;)
Action: chillywilly is away: dinner
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> although it would be funny to see a mini jcater down a few dozen donuts
<jcater> err
<jcater> no
<jcater> he would down donut-holes
<jcater> sille
Action: dneighbo suspects mini-jcater is more into donutholes
<jcater> silly
<dneighbo> ;)
<dneighbo> you had same thought
Action: dneighbo can see the script now
<dneighbo> setting: ye old donut shoppe
<dneighbo> donutman: what will it be for ya sonny?
<dneighbo> jcater: a dozen glazed 
<dneighbo> mini-jcater: and a dozen holes
<dneighbo> jcater and mini-jcater exchange grins
<dneighbo> donutman shakes head and fills donut box
<dneighbo> jcater's wife stumbles in from stage left
<dneighbo> wife: did you order my chicken strips yet?
<jcater> double sigh
<dneighbo> jcater/mini-jcater sigh at same time
<dneighbo> and i suppose if its a comedy
<dneighbo> jcater: yeah i got you six chicken strips
<dneighbo> mini-jcater: mutters, "w/ extra teriakyi"
<jcater> rofl
<jcater> gah
<jcater> anyone know of a good news reader on Linux?
Action: jcater used agent under Win32
<jcater> but of course those days are behind me
<jcater> knews truly, truly sucks
<jcater> sylpheed acts weird with newsgroups
<jcater> not all at once
<dneighbo> um what was the name of that one
<dneighbo> gnus yeah thats it ;)
<jcater> The following extra packages will be installed:
<jcater>   emacs20 emacsen-common ucf
Action: jcater smacks dneighbo around!
<jcater> no emacs on jcater's computer
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo> dood it does email too
<dneighbo> and um your budget
<dneighbo> and um gets your groceries
<dneighbo> gnus that is
<dneighbo> not to mention then you have emacs which means well you have a lisp virtual machine
<dneighbo> seriously there is one im thinking of and the name is escaping me
<dneighbo> i was impressed by it like 3 years ago
<dneighbo> and kepts saying if only linux would make an email client like this
<dneighbo> btw: mozilla isnt half bad for newsgroups
<jcater> btw, nget totally rocks my socks
<jcater> but I need a reader to actually find what I want
<dneighbo> ah pan
<dneighbo> thats the name of it
<dneighbo> http://pan.rebelbase.com/
<dneighbo> you might try pyne too
<dneighbo> its python based
<dneighbo> email/news program
<dneighbo> or knews
<jcater> knews sucks the big one
<jcater> knode seems fairly decent, tho
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> pan looks like what I want
<jcater> as they based it off of agent
<dneighbo>  Pan's original claim to fame was frenzied, thousand-post leeching. In this screenshot, a user is queueing a modest number of images from alt.binaries.fine-art.fractals to download into a directory of his choosing. Typing Shift-S will skip the dialog altogether.
<jcater> um, yeah
<jcater> I'll be downloading fractals
<jcater> yeah, that's it
<jcater> pan looks cool
<jcater> thx
<dneighbo> no problem
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<dneighbo> hi MicahY 
<dneighbo> u)FFesgbp
<MicahY> hi
<dneighbo> good to see you being the commit miester over there :)
<MicahY> hehe.  fixed a couple things I think. :)
<dneighbo> its always good to see momentum
<dneighbo> i.e. 2 is better than 1
<dneighbo> 3 better than 2
<dneighbo> etc
Action: dneighbo wonders where stbain ran off to
<MicahY> last night I was trying to get it to add vendors
<MicahY> not quite successfully.
<MicahY> ran into what appeared to be a postgres bug. :(
<MicahY> it inserted a record with the vendor
<MicahY> then did a select to get the new ID
<MicahY> comparing the upper() of the business name with upper() of the column that was just inserted
<MicahY> and it failed to see it!
<MicahY> I'll try to reproduce....
<dneighbo> in psql?
<dneighbo> or in their code?
<dneighbo> as it might be an ADBO thing if in their code
<MicahY> both
<MicahY> they use a transaction and then roll it back when the select doesn't return anything
<MicahY> if I do it without a transaction -- same insert -- it DOES get inserted
<dneighbo> ?
<dneighbo> when i talked with them on phone they said they were not using transactions yet
<dneighbo> hmmm
<MicahY> this is what's happening
<dneighbo> if you do the insert
<MicahY> acclite=> select id,upper(companyname) from company;
<MicahY>  id |                upper
<MicahY> ----+-------------------------------------
<MicahY>  18 | BOBS POOP SCOOPER
<MicahY>  23 | MICAHS POOP SCOOPER
<MicahY> (2 rows)
<dneighbo> can you do the select
<MicahY> acclite=> select id from company where upper(companyname)=upper('Micahs Poop Scooper') order by id desc;
<dneighbo> in psql
<MicahY>  id
<MicahY> ----
<MicahY> (0 rows)
<dneighbo> try
<MicahY> they are doing that exact same thing
<MicahY> the select SHOULD return ID 23
<dneighbo> select id from company where upper(companyname)='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<dneighbo> and what do you get
<MicahY> 0 rows returned
<dneighbo> what about
<MicahY> granted I'm using postgres 7.1 beta 3
<MicahY> maybe I should upgrade. :)
<dneighbo> select id, upper(companyname) as foo from company where foo='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<MicahY> ERROR:  Attribute 'foo' not found
<MicahY> or you mean having...
<MicahY> hmm that doesn't work either
<dneighbo> select id, upper(companyname) from company where upper='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<dneighbo> or
<dneighbo> select id, upper(companyname) from company where companyname='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<jcater> here's a silly question
<MicahY> acclite=> select id, upper(companyname) from company where upper='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<MicahY> ERROR:  Attribute 'upper' not found
<MicahY> acclite=> select id, upper(companyname) from company where companyname='MICAHS POOP SCOOPER' order by id desc;
<MicahY>  id | upper
<MicahY> ----+-------
<MicahY> (0 rows)
<jcater> those wouldn't happen to be "CHAR" fields would they?
<jcater> select the length() of those fields
<MicahY> yeah char(35)
<MicahY> wheee
<jcater> that needs to be varchar
<jcater> :(
<MicahY> you're right!
<MicahY> more heads is a good thing!
<dneighbo> rofl
Action: dneighbo forgets people even still use CHAR for anything
<MicahY> acclite=> select upper(companyname), length(upper(companyname)) from company;
<MicahY>                 upper                | length
<MicahY> -------------------------------------+--------
<MicahY>  BOBS POOP SCOOPER                   |     35
<MicahY>  MICAHS POOP SCOOPER                 |     35
<MicahY> (2 rows)
<dneighbo> definitely we should be using varchar for postgres
<jcater> ya think?
<jcater> :)
<jcater> rofl
<MicahY> ok, guess I'll go through the schema and add 'default now()' to the timestamp types that don't have them
<jcater> someone broke into my old high school with a backhoe
<MicahY> as that was an issue in a couple places
<jcater> stolen from our rival's high school
<jcater> go figure
<MicahY> and convert char to varchar
<dneighbo> generally i dont think, but hey if you are willing to give me credit for it.... ;)
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<jcater> gasp!
<jcater> night-time jamest
Action: dneighbo rubs eyes
<dneighbo> will the real jamest please stand up
<dneighbo> please stand up
Action: jamest puts one of his fingers on each hand up
<jamest> each hand up
[19:19] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<dneighbo> roflmao
<jcater> sigh
<dneighbo> thats enough sighing out of you mini-jcater
<jamest> does anyone know what art's win32 patch was supposed to fix
<dneighbo> ?
<jamest> todays commit log
<dneighbo> world peace?
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<MicahY> will try to have a 'fixed' schema committed tonight. :)
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<jamest> the commit log was
<jamest> By btami: corrected small bug on forms on win32.
<MicahY> crap
<MicahY> the pg_dump from my postgres version doesn't support the -U option
<dneighbo> dont know, thats why i want all commits to reference tickets or workorders in dcl
<MicahY> ok I'll switch to the 7.2.1 included in red hat. :)
<jamest> how about meaningfull commit messages
<jamest> instead :)
Action: jamest is as guilty as anyone in making bad commit messages
<jamest> except maybe that dude that does "syncing machines" all the time
<jcater> or how about testing the commits first?
<jamest> :P
Action: jcater has never been guilty of that
<jamest> testing code before checking it in?
<jcater> I know
<jcater> it would be a radical departure for us both
<jcater> but still....
<dneighbo> i would like to see it all done dcl im less interested about commit message
<dneighbo> in many ways
<dneighbo> i would like to see commits put in dcl so that then someone can be told to test them
<dneighbo> other than original developer
<dneighbo> before closing
Action: dneighbo considers subscribing one of the support accounts to dcl
<dneighbo> er cvs-commit
<dneighbo> any off to dodgers vs diamondbacks be back later
<dneighbo> night all
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<jcater> bah
<MicahY> ok any vi gurus?
<MicahY> what's the quickest way to take a LARGE file
<MicahY> and replace every instance of "character(" with "character varying("?
<MicahY> this could take a minute. :)
<jcater> :g/character(/s//character varying(/g
<MicahY> 180 substitutions!
<MicahY> that actually seems low...
<jamest> MicahY: you can also do this outside of vi for really huge files
<MicahY> but looks like it worked!
<jamest> cat filename | sed -e "s/character(/varying("
<jcater> MicahY: it's probably right
<jcater> the bulk of that file is zipcode data
<jcater> (which I've strongly considered chopping out!)
<MicahY> no, I'm only doing the schema file
<MicahY> which is over 8000 lines!
<jcater> oh
<jcater> nevermind then
<MicahY> ok. also got all the timestamps to default to now()
<MicahY> so that and this should fix some bugs!!!!
<MicahY> nah, why would we drop the zipcodes?
<MicahY> they seem useful
<jcater> well
<jcater> I cna tell you they are already outdated (for one)
<MicahY> and speaking of vi, is there a REALLY good tutorial somewhere?
<MicahY> I've never even figured out cut/copy/paste outside of gvim! (and I've looked at a few sites)
<MicahY> ah...
<MicahY> well there should be an up to date list somewhere
<chillywilly> use emacs
<chillywilly> ;P
<chillywilly> that's the best vi tutorial ever
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:27:24)
<MicahY> last time I used emacs I couldn't even exit
<MicahY> had to go to another console and killall emacs. :)
<chillywilly> C-x C-x
<chillywilly> er
<chillywilly> C-x C-c
<jcater> um
Action: jcater found a good vi tutorial not too long ago
<jcater> but I don't recall what it was
<chillywilly> hold down control hit 'x' then 'c'
Action: chillywilly knows of one written by a former professor
<chillywilly> one sec...
<chillywilly> http://www.t-a-y-l-o-r.com/4ltrwrd/
<chillywilly> there's a whole chapter on 'vi'
<chillywilly> granted vim is much better
<MicahY> yeah vim and gvim seem really good
<chillywilly> letting you do visual highlighting
<MicahY> for the longest time I was just using kwrite
<chillywilly> etc.
<MicahY> trying to get off that!
Action: chillywilly recommends emacs for coding though ;)
<jcater> um
Action: jcater uses kate :)
<jcater> part of KDE
<jcater> for all my coding needs
<chillywilly> wuss
<jcater> with a quick shot of vim occasionally
<jcater> MicahY: if you're on KDE, I'd highly recommend kate
Action: chillywilly was hardcore vim forever then made the switch to emacs
<chillywilly> emacs does colors in terminal mode now ;P
<jcater> gah
<chillywilly> (finally)
<jcater> how detestable
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> you don't like syntax highlighting?
<MicahY> ok will take a look at kate
<MicahY> but I need to learn vim anyway. :)
<jcater> ya
Action: chillywilly is proficient in both and can even be useful in old school vi
<chillywilly> jcater: why?
<jcater> why what?
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> syntax highlighting
<MicahY> yikes, the fonts in kate are horrible!  rest of KDE is OK.
<chillywilly> ja
<jcater> I can't stand
<jcater> syntax highlighting
<jcater> at all
<MicahY> ah. I love highlighting!
<jcater> MicahY: you can change that :)
<chillywilly> makes my life easier imho
<MicahY> I'm sure I can.
<jcater> I detest syntax highlighting
<jcater> it slows me down
<chillywilly> you're weird
<MicahY> kate doesn't do highlighting at all?
<MicahY> kwrite does
<jcater> kate does highlighting
<jcater> I have it off
<jcater> but it does it
<jcater> iirc kwrite uses KATE's text editor control now
Action: chillywilly goes off to get a vanilla coke
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Action: fitzix is away: phone
Action: jcater is away: pizza run
Action: jcater is back (gone 00:19:59)
<chillywilly> betta not tell da masta
<chillywilly> he can probably smell that pizza from where he is right now though ;)
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<jcater> that's one long phone call
<jcater> hope it was local
<chillywilly> not likely ;)
<jcater> do you substribe to any debian mailing lists?
Action: jcater is trying to decide which would be worthwhile (low volume but informative)
Action: jcater is thinking: debian-security-announce, debian-announce, debian-news
<chillywilly> only debian-hurd
<chillywilly> do not subscribe to debian-users
<chillywilly> it is HIGH volume
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: jcater mainly wants to stay up-to-date on my production / internet-exposed servers
<jcater> i.e., like the recent apache & openssh incidents
<jcater> dude
<jcater> looks like they'll be doing a 7th potato release
<jcater> where the fsck is woody?
<jcater> :)
<chillywilly> the security list then ;)
Action: chillywilly should subscribe to that one too
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--- Wed Jul  3 2002