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<dneighbo> ajmitch: for some reason NO modules were installed with the kernel :(
<dneighbo> do you know whats up with that?
<ajmitch> dneighbo: what kernel?
Action: ajmitch hasn't used a debian-supplied kernel for a long long long time
<dneighbo> kernel-image-2.4.18-686
<nickr> dneighbo: you have to install te pccard package also
<nickr> dneighbo: kernel-pcmcia-modules-2.4.18-686
<nickr> I think
<dneighbo> nickr: cool im already snagging that :
<dneighbo> hopefully it fixes thigns
<dneighbo> nickr: you here
<dneighbo> its odd modconf ONLY has pcmcia
<dneighbo> but regardless just raw out of box if i do /etc/pcmcia restart i get some errors i dont know how to resolve
<nickr> what error?
<nickr> you don't touch modconf in regards to pcmcia
<dneighbo>  Starting PCMCIA services: modules/lib/modules/2.4.18-686/pcmcia/i82365.o: unresolved symbol isapnp_find_dev_R9991be23
<dneighbo> ds: no socket drivers loaded!
<nickr> yea, okay, edit /etc/defaults/pcmcia, the line PCIC=i82365, change that to PCIC=yenta_socket
<dneighbo>  /lib/modules/2.4.18-686/pcmcia/ds.o: init_module: Operation not permitted
<nickr> um
<dneighbo> nickr: ok that removed error
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> no network card now
<dneighbo> er still (in 2.4)
<nickr> ?
<dneighbo> in 2.2 i had working ethernet
<dneighbo> in 2.4 it doesnt and if i do lsmod it doesnt appear to show tulip or anything
<nickr> try ejecting and reinserting the card
<dneighbo> nope
<dneighbo> BUT went to modconf
<dneighbo> and selected tulipc something
<dneighbo> and lights came on
<dneighbo> pulled card pushed card
<dneighbo> nothing
<dneighbo> ifup eth0
<dneighbo> and im go
<dneighbo> so looks to maybe use standard network/interfaces file now?
<dneighbo> anyhow looks good i think
<dneighbo> ext3, 2.4 kernel and bliss
<dneighbo> now just need some X loving and sound and im good to go
<dneighbo> im worried though
<dneighbo> modconf as stated before has NO modules 
<nickr> try doing a depmod -a and see if that populates your module list
<dneighbo> cept pcmcia so how will i do so sound?
<dneighbo> nope
<nickr> uhh
<nickr> go to /lib/modules/2.4.18-686 and see whats in there
<dneighbo> modules.dep
<dneighbo> modules.generic_string
<nickr> I'm really more interested in the directories ...
<dneighbo>  m.ieee1394map
<dneighbo> m.isapnpmap
<dneighbo> m.parportmap
<dneighbo> m.pcimap
<dneighbo> m.pnpbiosmpa
<dneighbo> m.usbmap
<dneighbo> s/m/modules
<dneighbo> pcmcia
<dneighbo> well working on X, if you have ideas let me know
<nickr> there is no possible way if you installed the kernel package that you'd end up without tonnes of modules in there.
<dneighbo> um
<dneighbo> im special remember
<nickr> Yea.
<nickr> I think you apply just enough knowledge to be dangerous to yourself but not enough to solve your problems
<nickr> anyway
<nickr> look at /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-image-2.4.18-686.list and do a search for /lib/modules/2.4.18-686 and verify that there are many .o files under there
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<dneighbo> i get fatal server error: trying to start x
<dneighbo> could not open default font 'fixed'
<dneighbo> i went back and apt-get xfonts-100dpi and xfonts-75dpi
<dneighbo> not sure where to go from there
<nickr> install aptitude
<nickr> go into aptitude
<nickr> install the destop environment task
<dneighbo> and yes all items seem to be in /lib/modules/2.4......
<dneighbo> that are in the package
<dneighbo> or at least all the ones i have checked
<nickr> so there are things like kernel/drivers/net/tulip.o ?
<dneighbo> btw: im too dumb to use aptitude
<dneighbo> its the worst ui i have ever seen
<nickr> uh
<nickr> aptitude is simple
<nickr> go down to Tasks
<nickr> hit enter
<nickr> find Desktop Environment, move the lin to it and hit +
<nickr> type g
<nickr> type g again
<nickr> sit back and watch
<nickr> alternatively, you can suffer
<dneighbo> nickr: will this be kde or gnome?
<dneighbo> there is basic-desktop
<dneighbo> and
<dneighbo> desktop
<dneighbo> i chose desktop
<dneighbo> it was the second g that wasnt intuitive btw
<nickr> well it gives you a chance to review its dependency resolutions before it commits them
<nickr> thats what the second g is
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<dneighbo> actually tulip.o and friends are under kernel/drivers/net
<dneighbo> i originally looked at kernel/net (my bad)
<dneighbo> i think its just a matter of something not being refreshed for them to show in modconf
<dneighbo> iirc i had similar issue before and some magic incantation solved it
<nickr> yea
<nickr> most likely a reboot would solve that problem
<nickr> sinec I don't know the incantation
<dneighbo_> hmm i had to reboot after getting 2.4 and after getting the pcmcia stuff
<dneighbo_> you think another reboot would help?
<dneighbo_> sigh, the desktop thing you had me pick i think is all kde
<dneighbo_> i love debian, but they have some kinks to work out on install 
Action: dneighbo_ wonders if they could use some of progeny's stuff
<nickr> They will
<dneighbo_> it was far from perfect but seemed pretty decent
<nickr> there is a beta piggy net install CD
<dneighbo_> as debian is like leaps and bounds superior once installed
Action: dneighbo_ admits some its install features are pretty slick too, just not enough of them
<nickr> anyway. Did you install grub?
<dneighbo_> its funny they let you do really complex stuff easily
<nickr> it shouldn't make a diff but I like grub :)
<dneighbo_> but some more simple stuff they do archaic style
<dneighbo_> i wanted grub but i didnt ping you at right time
<dneighbo_> and i dont have notes on what we did last time
<nickr> first install grub and uninstall lilo
<dneighbo_> you give bad instructions let me whip up a quick guide
<dneighbo_> 1. install grub
<dneighbo_> 2. pray hard
<dneighbo_> 3. uninstall lilo
<dneighbo_> 4. rejoice
<ajmitch> ello again
<nickr> apt-get --purge install grub lilo-
<nickr> grub-install /dev/hda
[01:03] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<nickr> update-grub
<nickr>  .. answer 'y' at the prompt
<nickr>  .. if you have your root on /dev/hda1 you're golden .. type update-grub again
<nickr> reboot
<dneighbo> let me get X working
<dneighbo> then i will do grub if you are still here
<dneighbo> as i have to try to reboot to get sound modules to show up anyhow :)
<dneighbo> might as well make it a useful reboot
<nickr> type this: apt-get moo
<nickr> and this: aptitude moo
Action: ajmitch recalls that last time he tried booting with grub he had to edit the menu.lst
<ajmitch> of course i still haven't fixed it up yet :)
<dneighbo> rofl
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<ajmitch> but that's the beauty of grub - you can fix it up even when it's partly stuffed up :)
<ajmitch> hey psu
<psu> hiya
<psu> wb me
<psu> ;-)
<dneighbo> ok x works but it defaulted to KDE
Action: dneighbo thinks some debian developers need a pimp slap :)
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<psu> hey, they are just saving you the worry of having to make a choice
<psu> if you want choices, install a non-bullying distro like 
<psu> er 
<psu> Debian
<psu> ;-)
Action: ajmitch pimp slaps psu
<dneighbo> two questions i always forget
<ajmitch> don't you be dissin' my debian here!
<dneighbo> a. how can you tell what resolution you are running?
<ajmitch> xdpyinfo
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<dneighbo> b. how can you change it (with something that doesnt involve + key
<ajmitch> hack XF86Config
<ajmitch> or wait for the XRANDR extension to be out & supported by wm's
<nickr> use dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 and only enable the resolutions you actually want
Action: psu hugs his Debian
<ajmitch> nickr: don't tell him the easy way!
<nickr> woops
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> thats what i did before
<ajmitch> this is debian, you gotta hack all the config files with ed
<dneighbo> was wondering if more dynamic tool to do it
<ajmitch> like windows? :)
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<fred_bad> hahaha
<fred_bad> trying silly kde irc program its bad
<nickr> dneighbo: oh, there is a gnome applet(s), probably kde applet(s) and other little programs to do it
<nickr> just for the session tohugh
<fred_bad> trying to go to grub
<nickr> it can't change the actual config file
<ajmitch> hello fred_bad
Action: ajmitch would not want to change resolution here - anything less than 1280x1024 is small
<fred_bad> do i really need to do grub-install /dev/hda twice?
<fred_bad> Remosi: your previous instructions?
<ajmitch> heh
<nickr> fred_bad: I don't know, its probably a good idea to
<ajmitch> nick completion is fun
<fred_bad> ajmitch: i feel same way but never seem to have hardware (cept at work) that supports it
<fred_bad> either video card sucks or monitor sucks
<ajmitch> at the moment i've got a second screen beside this one that does 640x480 max
<ajmitch> using x2x to switch between them
<nickr> x2x rawks
<ajmitch> yup
<nickr> although there is something even better
Action: fred_bad is nervous that it says 'This May Take A Long Time'
<ajmitch> xinerama & dualhead cards?
<nickr> ajmitch: no, that works on that sort of setup, I'm searching for it
<nickr> ajmitch: I saw an ITP a while back
<ajmitch> interesting
<ajmitch> ITP on the debian-devel list?
Action: ajmitch does a search
<ajmitch> hmm, mutt takes awhile to load a 100MB mbox file
<ajmitch> espcially on this crappy hardware :)
<nickr> I'm not terribly impressed by mutt.
<nickr> I mean, its better than anything else, but not quite up to my standards
<ajmitch> using gnus?
<ajmitch> ah ok
<nickr> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=no\&bug=149457
<nickr> dmx
<nickr> looks TOTALLY AWESOME
<fred_bad> i dont have / on hda1 but rather hda2
<fred_bad> i assume i need to edit menu.lst
<fred_bad> changed all (0,0) to (0,1)
<fred_bad> and hda1 to hda2
<fred_bad> is that correct thing to do?
<fred_bad> then update-grub?
<fred_bad> and reboot?
<ajmitch> afaik you don't need to update-grub
<ajmitch> grub reads the file on boot
<nickr> you do need update-grub
<ajmitch> why?
<fred_bad> ok updating grub
<fred_bad> now just reboot?
<fred_bad> brb
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Action: ajmitch thought update-grub was for installing new kernels, etc
<nickr> ajmitch: update-grub reads directives in the comments of menu.list to fill out its automatically generated lines
<ajmitch> ah
Action: ajmitch has a plain menu.lst, no update-grub used
<nickr> update-grub is one of the best tools ever created
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> well its very nice at least
<nickr> debian needs a lot more tools like it
<dneighbo> you guys rock
<dneighbo> im grubified
<dneighbo> so new shiny debian
<dneighbo> X (kde and gnome)
<dneighbo> grub
<dneighbo> 2.4.18
<dneighbo> ext3
<dneighbo> what more could a geek ask for ?
<dneighbo> oh yeah crap sound
<dneighbo> yeah stuff shows up now
<nickr> sweet
<nickr> do an lspci and look for the multimedia device
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<dneighbo> maestro installed
<dneighbo> just apt-get smbclient and xmms to test
<dneighbo> and i think im up and running
<dneighbo> grrrr scratch that after reboot ethernet is toast
Action: ajmitch wonders why so many reboots :)
Action: ajmitch wants nice shiny new KDE desktop
<ajmitch> already have gnome 2 compiled
<ajmitch> don't want to install calc's kde3 debs yet because new libarts breaks sdl & wine
<dneighbo> sigh i dont get it, it was working
<dneighbo> now a /etc/init.d/pcmcia restart brings card back up (or at least doesnt error)
<dneighbo> but no networking 
<dneighbo> an ifconfig shows only lo as up
<dneighbo> if i do an ifup eth0
<dneighbo> it says ifup: interface eth0 already configured
<ajmitch> do ifconfig eth0
<ajmitch> maybe 'ifdown eth0; ifup eth0' if you're bored
<dneighbo> error fetching interface information: device not found
<dneighbo> grr hold up
<ajmitch> hmm k
<nickr> dneighbo: first take the auto out of /etc/network/interfaces for eth0
Action: ajmitch defers to nickr
<nickr> dneighbo: then ifdown eth0, then /etc/init.d/pcmcia restart
<dneighbo> lets time i did tulip_c module install under pcmcia to get network to work
<dneighbo> i look there now and that module doesnt exist
<nickr> you don't touch the fucking modules with pcmcia
<nickr> how many times will I have to tell you for you to get that?
<dneighbo> um two things
<dneighbo> a. removing auto eth0 and restarted services no effect
<ajmitch> bbl :)
<dneighbo> b. neworking didnt work until i activated tulip_c in pcmcia modules last time
<nickr> did you do an ifdown first?
<dneighbo> yip
<nickr> remove and reinsert the card, investigate lsmod for the driver, are there beeps? do the lights turn on?
<dneighbo> yeah i have fixed
<dneighbo> by installing a module
<nickr> gar
<dneighbo> they moved xiricom_tulip_c out of pcmcica
<dneighbo> into pcmcia/net
<dneighbo> and thats why it stopped working
<dneighbo> woo hoo sound rocking
<dneighbo> how do you do audio again for normal users?
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<dneighbo> got syntax never mind
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<ajmitch> hi
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<Arturas> Hello
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<ajmitch> hi Arturas
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<SachaS_> hi ajmitch
Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS
<ajmitch> hello
<ajmitch> how are you today?
Action: ajmitch sees Arturas hard at work again on i18n :)
<SachaS> good thanks ajmitch. 
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<Arturas> ajmitch: is on good mood today? :)
<ajmitch> hmm yeah
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<Arturas> ajmitch: don't worry, the mood will go away soon :) :) :)
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Action: Arturas is away: "Lunch :)"
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<ThreeSeas> I'm looking at the freedevelopers.net and am wondering if there has been much activity since it was initiated.
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<ThreeSeas> don't much see anything dated this year
<reinhard> ThreeSeas: you might want for chilliwilly to appear here
<reinhard> he is a member of freedevelopers IIRC
<reinhard> and he appears here daily
<ThreeSeas> Ah, any ideal about what time - using now as 0:00 
<reinhard> well then it would be about 3:00 to 5:00 ThreeSeasTime ;)
<reinhard> IIRC there is also a #freedevelopers channel here
<ThreeSeas> Oh, thanks
<ThreeSeas> 3c time....:)
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<Arturas> is anyone online now?
<ra3vat> Arturas: hi
<Arturas> hi Dmitry :)
<Arturas> could you help m a bit?
<Arturas> i created a form
<Arturas> (simple one)
<Arturas> and it does not opens
<Arturas> :0
<Arturas> more complex forms i have are opened
<Arturas> source :
<ra3vat> ok, i'll try
<Arturas> <?xml version="1.0"?>
<Arturas> <!--  GNUe Designer (0.4.0a)
<Arturas>       Saved on: 2002-07-08 15:43:13  -->
<Arturas> <form height="5" title="Persons" width="39">
<Arturas>   <datasource database="ktt" name="dtsPerson" table="person"/>
<Arturas>   <page name="pgPerson">
<Arturas>     <block datasource="dtsperson" name="blkPerson">
<Arturas>       <entry field="person_id" name="inpPersonId" typecast="integer"
<Arturas>              width="10" x="13" y="1"/>
<Arturas>       <entry field="first_name" max_length="259" name="inpFirstName"
<Arturas>              width="25" x="13" y="2"/>
<Arturas>       <entry field="last_name" max_length="259" name="inpLastName" width="25"
<Arturas>              x="13" y="3"/>
<Arturas>     </block>
<Arturas>     <label name="lblPersonId" text="Person Id:" width="10" x="1" y="1"/>
<Arturas>     <label name="lblFirstName" text="First Name:" width="11" x="1" y="2"/>
<Arturas>     <label name="lblLastName" text="Last Name:" width="10" x="1" y="3"/>
<Arturas>   </page>
<Arturas> </form>
<Arturas> --
<Arturas> error i get:
<Arturas> DB000:     self.dispatchEvent(GFEvent('beginEDITMODE', formObject))
<Arturas> DB000:   File "/home/users/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFEvent.py", line 105, in dispatchEvent
<Arturas> DB000:     handler(event)
<Arturas> DB000:   File "/home/users/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFInstance.py", line 154, in proxyEntryEvent
<Arturas> DB000:     handler = self._form._currentEntry._displayHandler
<Arturas> DB000: AttributeError: GFEntry instance has no attribute '_displayHandler'
<Arturas> arturas@lambda:15:43:38:~:
<Arturas> -- end --
<Arturas> more complex forms are opened without any errors, work fine
<Arturas> there does exist database, table, data on it
<Arturas> tried to create another simple form for other table - the same error
<ra3vat> datasource="dtsperson"  name="dtsPerson"
<Arturas> checking...
<ra3vat> should it be identical?
<Arturas> still the same error
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<ra3vat> Arturas: the same error here
<Arturas> :)
<ra3vat> i delete all datasource references
<ra3vat> deleted
<Arturas> did it help?
<ra3vat> no
<Arturas> fun
<ra3vat> typecast="integer" after deleting this it started
<Arturas> yes, this helped :)
<Arturas> but anyway, we have someway broken code :/
<Arturas> thank you :)
<ra3vat> i have problem with date fields will try to find about masks
<Arturas> what problem?
<ra3vat> date fields getting localized representation which is not accepted by postgres
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<Arturas> have not i18n date fields, and their format as i remember is coded directly in the source
<ra3vat> i should check again but i saw postgres error with what really passed there initial format in a form was mm/dd/yyyy
<Arturas> yes, there is some kind of bug that postgress takes one date format and forms give another
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<ra3vat> Arturas: seems some useful info there is in DateMask.py
<ra3vat> # TODO: This is obviously not Internationalized!
<ra3vat> # TODO (after some time...): will have to check whether it works...
<ra3vat> from that file also
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Action: Arturas wants to kick someone for all the stuff of 7bit encoding, for the stuff of 8bit encoding, for unicode, for utf..... /me is going crazy... 8) 
<Arturas> bye :)
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Action: drochaid prods dneighbo
Action: nickr averts his eyes
<drochaid> allo nickr :)
<nickr> hakuna matada drochaid 
<drochaid> feasgar math nickr
<drochaid> ciamar a tha sibh?
<nickr> oingo boingo de bergerac
<drochaid> lol
<nickr> hehe
<dneighbo> hi dr
<dneighbo> er drochaid 
<drochaid> allo dneighbo
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<drochaid> hey jamest
<ra3vat> hello jamest
<jamest> hello
<ra3vat> jamest: is it possible with formatmask(displaymask..) to have datetime data passed always in mm/dd/yy format to a db backend?
<jamest> the displayhandlers store in a format different than they display
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<jamest> i don't recal the details
<drochaid> heya psu
<psu> hi drochaid
<ra3vat> now it represented it in long format with localized weekdays names which did not accepted by postgres
<psu> how's life in ntl broadband land?
Action: psu does his monthly check for cable broadband "Enter Postcode..."
<nickr> not available. Ha ha.
<psu> "Broadband Internet is not yet available in your area. so nya nya"
<ra3vat> i'd like temporary leave it in mm/dd/yy via forms, did it now with export LC_TIME=C
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<drochaid> tis fine up here psu, although my friend on the M3 corridor was down yesterday
Action: psu is going to keep his dial-up as emergency back-up even when he does get broadband
<drochaid> :)
<drochaid> my brain has just gone to sleep
<drochaid> using a combo box to select an entry by a name pulled from a remote table, where it stores the id of the entry locally ... that's a lookup table, right?
<psu> yep
<drochaid> ta
<psu> we have snazzy new functionality for that IIRC
<drochaid> hate it when I know I'm right .. but don't trust myself
<psu> in that you can see both the ID & the 
<psu> description 
<drochaid> I mean, not like I've been programming them for the last 8 years or anything FFS ;)
<psu> CVS ( & jcater) rox
<drochaid> ah cool
<drochaid> I've only got the released v0.3.0
<drochaid> I *really* must learn how to use CVS someday
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<stbain> greetz
<psu> hiya
<stbain> dneighbo: I might accept a position w/ the company I installed NOLA for :)
<stbain> that means I'll be able to devote some time to development on both NOLA and GNUe
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<StyXman> hi. I just noted...
<StyXman> uh, we have masterlink and detaillink...
<StyXman> and order_by and foreign_key...
<chillywilly> hi StyXman
<StyXman> (hi chil)
<chillywilly> why is your greeting in parens?
<StyXman> can you (we?) have a politic about attr names?
<chillywilly> hi reinhard
<chillywilly> just the man I want to talk to
Action: chillywilly checks for a pulse
<StyXman> 'cause it's not related to I was saying..
<reinhard> oh
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> he lives
<reinhard> you sure=
<reinhard> ?
<chillywilly> I was wondering if you wouldn't mind if I wrote a schema and odlml xml parser and write some xslt stuff too for the "object" format in the appserver
<chillywilly> we can write some transformations to go to ODL
<StyXman> or the politic about it is have no politic?
<chillywilly> I have been readin GParser a bit
<chillywilly> and it makes sense
<chillywilly> I am ready to dabble in it
<chillywilly> have you ever looked at the GObj class in common?
<chillywilly> in "Gobjects.py"
<chillywilly> GObjects.py that is
<reinhard> chillywilly: i haven't looked
<reinhard> and i think i have learned that the aims people have in gnue are of different nature
<reinhard> if we have a parser for odlml xml class definition files
<reinhard> i for my part are about 100% sure that i will never use it
<chillywilly> well you would use designer or you could write the simpler format
<chillywilly> I can stick it in jan's _featuretest module so it's not in the way ;)
<reinhard> currently i would think that jan has taken the role as the appserver lead developer
<chillywilly> true
<chillywilly> are you saying I should talk to him?
<chillywilly> ;)
<reinhard> i have a very specific picture of how i would gnue want to be
<reinhard> and i know that it's _my_ turn to make it look like that
<chillywilly> so what are you saying to me?
<reinhard> as most other people have their own specific picture :)
<reinhard> chillywilly: i'm saying that i am not sure if it is worth doing
<reinhard> but that i can't stop you anyway :)
<chillywilly> well it lets me play with xml ;)
<chillywilly> j/k, that
<chillywilly> 's not the *only* reason ;)
<chillywilly> seems like all the other xml elements in the various gnue formats are GObj based objects
<chillywilly> you could reuse triggers
<chillywilly> tie them into the objects
<reinhard> i'm not sure but maybe i'm the only one here working _daily_ with a buttload of different business application _users_
<reinhard> and i tend to see _their_ prolems and _their_ wishes
<reinhard> i guess most of them give a sh*t about wheter something is in XML or in foo
<reinhard> and whether it is tied to GObject or whatever
<reinhard> what they want is a stable working usable business software
<reinhard> that is easily extensible
<reinhard> to some degree extensible by an _average_ business user
<reinhard> however as derek likes to say "gnue will be all things to all people"
<chillywilly> I am just trying to leverage all the hard work that jcater and jamest have put into "common"
<reinhard> so i guess someday gnue will be ODMG compilant as well as easy to extend and performant and all the other things we want it to be
<chillywilly> seems like what you want can be defined at a higher level, like a business rule design type thing that people can use
<reinhard> anyway
<reinhard> believe me it hurts me personally to have to tell you that
<chillywilly> rant, rant, rant
<reinhard> but i think it's better when i'm honest
<chillywilly> sure it does
<reinhard> i see no value in the thing you are going to do
<reinhard> however that's my personal opinion
<reinhard> and i might not see all sides of the coin
<chillywilly> well jan was implementing the same ideas in _featuretest plus some of the things he was bringin to the table
<reinhard> i have lost track about what jan is doing as well
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<reinhard> and i'm positive we might have different opinions on some topics
<chillywilly> he has a book on appservers where he is implementing some ideas
<chillywilly> afaik
<chillywilly> the code is pretty clear, imho
<reinhard> i think the thing i need most currently is time :(
<reinhard> and sleep
<chillywilly> yea, you seem a bit cranky ;P
<reinhard> chillywilly: please talk to jan about this
<chillywilly> he started hand coding a GCD parser
<dneighbo> stbain VERY cool you will have to give me details
<dneighbo> i finally got DCL security release out door
<dneighbo> so plan on digging back into NOLA and friends
<reinhard> night all
<psu>  /leave #gnuenterprise nite
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<dneighbo> shiny new debian on laptop so ready to do damage
<ajmitch> shiny new debian works now?
<StyXman> dneighbo: hi?
<drochaid> ajmitch: not for me yet :'(
Action: chillywilly slaps dneighbo with the trout-o-matic
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<drochaid> I think you knocked him out chillywilly :-/
<chillywilly> :P
<drochaid> don't :P at me, you knocked 'im out
<chillywilly> ;-P
<chillywilly> 8-]
<drochaid> lol
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<neilt> hello all
<chillywilly> sup money
<neilt> $$$$
<neilt> no much
<neilt> and you
<chillywilly> eh, same old same odl
<chillywilly> old
<neilt> chillywilly: did you find employment?
<StyXman> jamest: can you test something?
<StyXman> or anyone? I try to make box'es be containers...
<StyXman> shite. sometimes i... just *hate* my job
Action: chillywilly is away: food, get car back from shop
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<dneighbo> mail@tiffinhealth.org                     (11K) Tiffin Health Online 
<dneighbo> neilt you spamming us again ;)
<dneighbo> sup ToyMan 
<ToyMan> not much
<ToyMan> just back from a good swim
Action: dneighbo likes to swim
<ToyMan> we have a great lake just a few miles from the factory
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<Chipaca> hi all
<Chipaca> jamest: you actually here?
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<Chipaca> siesel: hi
<siesel> hi Chipaca
<siesel> hi all
<Chipaca> we're trying (aprono is) to get the dbsig drivers to work wrt primary keys
<Chipaca> we've stumbled over something that'll break backwards compatibility if we fix it
<Chipaca> and it's a pain if we don't (because we'll have to check the type of the return value of a function, to start with)
<Chipaca> so we're wondering if we should just go ahead, or if we should leave it as is
<Chipaca> and do the ugly thing, vs. the Right Thing
<dneighbo> Chipaca thats ok we have a rule here anyhow it says
<dneighbo> "You cant fix something unless you break two of something else."
<Chipaca> dneighbo: can I count the things?
Action: Chipaca gets his dictionary of aggregates
<dneighbo> rofl
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<Chipaca> ok, so we fix this one bug in dbsig, but create a new bug in GNUe, that's a bug for a bug, so that's fine
<Chipaca> dneighbo: is that how it works?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: actually, it wouldn't break anything, except backwards compatibility between dbdrivers
<Chipaca> dneighbo: i.e. all the dbdrivers except postgres would stop working
<Chipaca> which is fine by me!
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<StyXman> jcater: hi!
<Chipaca> jcater: hi. read the last bit of the logs, please?
<StyXman> jcater: besides what Chipaca said, do you have just a sec?
<jcater> um
Action: jcater just got home
<jcater> wassup?
<jcater> I read the back logs
<jcater> so what is the fix/breakage?>
<Chipaca> jcater: to work with the primary key
<Chipaca> jcater: in dbsig, you see if the dbdriver has a string called primary key, and you use that as the name of the column that has the primary key
<Chipaca> jcater: that breaks on one table when you have multiple primary keys
<jcater> in dbsig?
<jcater> I don't recall having any primary keys in dbsig
<Chipaca> jcater: yes, isn't that you?
Action: jcater is lost
<Chipaca> jcater: PrimaryIdField i think it's called
<Chipaca> aprono says so :)
<jcater> oh
<jcater> that's not the primary key
<Chipaca> sorry
<Chipaca> yeah, that, ok
<Chipaca> umm, no, it's not the primary key
<Chipaca> it could be for example in postgres the oid
<Chipaca> but we ran into trouble there too, and the only way we could think of that fixes that is with primary keys
<Chipaca>  the trouble we ran into was when inserting a row that has an autogenerated primary key
<Chipaca>  we couldn't find out the oid of the row
Action: neilt back
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I want to petition the DB-SIG group
<jcater> to add that functionality
<neilt> dneighbo: no spam
<jcater> i.e., we can get the OID (or RowID, etc) of any inserted rows
<jcater> but that doesn't solve the immediate need
<Chipaca> jcater: exactly
<Chipaca> jcater: so we find that the only sane way of doing it is using primary keys, and that presents us with a problem
<jcater> yes
<Chipaca> jcater: that the thing we've got to return from PrimaryIdField is no longer a string, but rather a hash
<jcater> how are you getting the primary keys?
<jcater> doing introspection at startup?
<Chipaca> jcater: in postgres, asking the system tables
<jcater> ok
<Chipaca> jcater: that's in psycopg
<Chipaca> the psycopg guys told us what to do :)
<jcater> ah
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<jcater> well
<jcater> if you look in recent cvs
<jcater> recent == last week or two
<jcater> I added primary key lookup functions to the postgresql drivers
<jcater> :)
<jcater> why a hash? and not a list?
<jcater> any particular reason?
<Chipaca> jcater: yes, aprono corrected me it's not in psycopg, but in the postgres thing
<Chipaca> jcater: because, if you remember, we're working on getting multiple tables working...
<Chipaca> ...so we have several primary keys in several tables
<Chipaca> if not, we'd've done "a, b, c".split(", ")
<Chipaca> and retained backwards compat
<jcater> ok
<jcater> I see where you guys are going
Action: jcater is fine w/breaking other drivers
Action: Chipaca is, too
<jcater> just create a trouble ticket saying the other ones might be broken
<StyXman> reit!
<Chipaca> trouble tickets are the same as bug reports, right?
<StyXman> (greit...)
Action: jcater thinks the only other driver to use PrimaryIdField is Oracle
<jcater> and I'll fix it quickly if it breaks
<jcater> as I use it
<Chipaca> jcater: yeah, and it's broken
<Chipaca> oops
<jcater> lol
<Chipaca> jcater: we're pretty sure it shouldn't work
<Chipaca> rather like the bumblebee
<jcater> it's broken like the bumblebee?
Action: jcater doesn't get the reference
<jcater> s/reference/allusion
<Chipaca> jcater: didn't you know? bumblebees can't fly
<Chipaca> jcater: too small wing surface/weight ratio
<jcater> lol
<Chipaca> jcater: common-support@gnue.org, right?
<Chipaca> jcater: and that would be when we actually get the patch in :)
<Chipaca> we're suffering delays wrt getting set up wrt fsf
<jcater> common-support@gnuenterprise.org
<jcater> gnue.org doesn't properly forward everything yet
<jcater> <cough>dneighbo</cough>
<jcater> yes, when you get the patch in
<drochaid> <cough>subtle</cough>
<drochaid> :)
<StyXman> jcater: so, I tried to make box'es to be containers. you guess what I get?
<Chipaca> ok, great, thanks
Nick change: Chipaca -> papo
Action: papo is collectively glad
<StyXman> hi papudo.
Nick change: papo -> Chipaca
<jcater> StyXman: what?
<StyXman> segmentation fault
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Action: StyXman sighs
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<StyXman> I just added 'GFBox' to the containerWidgets lists in _base/UIdriver
<StyXman> I did the same when I hacked the scrollbox, and with sb'es it worked. I tryied with boxes, but I get a sigsegv
<dneighbo> jcater: i responded to your ticket w/o an answer re: gnue.org
<jcater> dneighbo: when?
<jcater> btw, my email has been down since Thursday
<jcater> actually, my entire office internet connection
<jcater> grrr
<jcater> a good chunk of XO's customers here in memphis are sans internet pipe
Action: Chipaca waves
<Chipaca> gotta run
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<StyXman> jcater: would it be a wx's bug?
<jcater> StyXman: no clue :<
<jcater> I hate python seg faults
<StyXman> the only way I think python would give a sigsegv is through external libs...
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> that's usually my experience too
<StyXman> :-f
<jcater> r0x0r... speak of the devil... my internet pipe just came back up
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<StyXman> jcater: did yoiu ever used --interactive-debuger?
<StyXman> I'll try to hunt that f***ing bug down...
<jcater> StyXman: not really
<jcater> I haven't had time to acquaint myself w/the debugger yet
<jcater> jamest demoed it to me and it rocks
<jcater> but I really don't know how to use it
<ra3vat> what kind of trigger i can use to initialize calculated variables of a form? kind of ON-STARTUP
Action: StyXman hates being stuck
Action: StyXman is not in the right mood
Action: jcater thinks something line on-newrecord is what you want
<jcater> s/line/like
<StyXman> jamest: you here?
<jcater> StyXman: I doubt it
<jcater> that is his work login
<jcater> and jamest is NEVER at work past 5:00 CST
<StyXman> so, he left his account open
Action: StyXman screams to death
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<ra3vat> jcater: thanks
<jcater> what did I do?
<jcater> oh
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<jcater> the trigger question
<jcater> never mind
<StyXman> jcater: can you help me with _base/UIdriver:140?
<jcater> wrt?
<StyXman> jcater: this box-don't-want-to-be-container thing... but wait, I found something...
<StyXman> shit, static boxes (aka GFBox'es?) cannot contain widgets.
<StyXman> so, scrollboxes is the only way to make containers.... and have the plus of scrollbars and 'virtual' space...
<StyXman> what would you undesrtand by:
<StyXman> Just
<StyXman> make the controls the siblings of the static box.
<StyXman> I took that from 
<StyXman> http://lists.wxwindows.org/pipermail/wx-dev/2000-June/004294.html
<StyXman> jcater?
<jcater> um
<dneighbo> well im off to see the mortgage wizard
<jcater> were you trying to parent the wx* stuff with the wxBox ?
<dneighbo> la, la, la la la
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<jcater> I'd make the UIbox create a wxPanel and then a wxBox (that's part of that panel)
<jcater> but make all the child widgets think the wxPanel is their parent
<jcater> (not the wxBox)
<StyXman> he, you still don't like sb'es. ;) ok, I'll try that.
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 01:26:35)
<StyXman> wb chil
<chillywilly> sup niggie
<chillywilly> what it be
<StyXman> sup? 'zing, a gs
Action: jcater is away: food
<chillywilly> gs indeed homefry
<StyXman> jcater: you're a f***ing genius
<drochaid> `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
<StyXman> drochaid: uh?
<StyXman> drochaid: stop beating your kbd, please...
<drochaid> sorry, dropped a notepad on it
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<chillywilly> oooh, you guys got ajmitch's gadfly db driver :)
<ajmitch> eh?
<chillywilly> look at the commit list
<ajmitch> sigh, i didn't think it'd be committed
<chillywilly> :)
<chillywilly> you are now an author of gnue common ;P
<ajmitch> scary
<ajmitch> it's evil ugly code
Action: chillywilly cvs updates
<chillywilly> just out of curiousity does anyone know if da masta used my BX config?
<ajmitch> dunno
Action: chillywilly watches abd cvs up hangs....for...an....eternity....
<chillywilly> aabd/as
<chillywilly> s/aabd/as
<drochaid> s/"aabd/as"/"s/aabd/as" ? >:)
<chillywilly> stop that
<ajmitch> hi drochaid
<chillywilly> s#s/aabd/as#s/abd/as#
<chillywilly> ;P
<drochaid> muahahahaa
<chillywilly> or
<chillywilly> s/s\/aabd/\as\//s\/abd\/as\//
<chillywilly> doh
<chillywilly> one out of order
<chillywilly> oh well
<chillywilly> that shit makes me crazy
<chillywilly> uytuiytY^%&^Yrtfyt65r4TFytreytrdTYR%e765ed
<chillywilly> is jcater there?
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<StyXman> jcater?
<ajmitch> hey it's the legendary StyXman!
<StyXman> legendary? wow, that sound good.. but why?
<ajmitch> because you are :)
<StyXman> wow.
<ajmitch> don't let it go to your head
<StyXman> I hope that...
<StyXman> (hi all, btw)
<StyXman> is there a X channel?
<chillywilly> XXX?
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> this is *the* XXX Goat pr0n channel
<ajmitch> sigh
Action: chillywilly troutslaps ajmitch
<chillywilly> we can only take *one* person sighing in here every day
<nickr> sigh
<chillywilly> jcater had filled the position
<chillywilly> hey nickr
<chillywilly> you freakaziod
<ajmitch> hi nickr
<chillywilly> freeeeeeekaaaaaazooooooiiiddddd
<StyXman> ya se le salio la chaveta...
<StyXman> you-are-*nuts*!
<StyXman> :)
<chillywilly> nope, you are
<chillywilly> river of hate guy
<StyXman> :) no, being serious, is there one? I don't know how to make epic to stop scrolling channel names...
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> oh an X channel?
<chillywilly> dunno of one off hand
<chillywilly> you are referring to XFree86 correct?
<StyXman> if I do /list, I get *loads* of channel names. d'you know how to stop it under epic 
<StyXman> chillywilly: yeap
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:28:24)
<jcater> 'list
<chillywilly> hi :)
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<jcater> hi
Action: chillywilly is writing a psrser based on GParser :)
<chillywilly> parser
<jcater> why not just use gparser?
<chillywilly> that's what I mean
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> dawg
<jcater> ah
<jcater> c00l
<jcater> or k00l
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<jcater> or hewl
<jcater> err, kewl
<chillywilly> k3w|
<chillywilly> ;)
<jcater> or whatever you young whipper-snappers call it these days
<ajmitch> depends on how l4m3 you want to be :)
<chillywilly> heh
<chillywilly> :'(
Action: jcater hands chillywilly a t1ssu3
Action: drochaid is away: Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Action: jcater tastes best with mustard
<jcater> mmmm
<jcater> or honey
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Action: fitzix1 is away: phone
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<dneighbo> sup my peeps
<nickr> blender may become Free software
<nickr> nickrs everywhere rejoice!
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--- Tue Jul  9 2002