just enough to keep the riff raff out --- Thu Jul 25 2002 im curious on ipcop if it might be good for my buddy i just hate to recommend never trying for myself as i will be the support if he has issues :) dneighbo: it has to do with more than ppl getting at your stuff that's only one reason you should be a responsible netizen if you have a machine always on the net i.e., I don't want mine used for DoS'ing (besides, there's a liability issue there yes agree i want a firewall and a goodone as technically I am responsible for anything originating from my machine) obviously or i wouldnt be going through this headache right now just saying i probably wont be putting as much effort into it as say a National Bank does ipcop run on alpha processor? as my ultimate goal was to get debian installed on my DEC Alpha machine no and use it as my gateway/firewall/wireless ipcop is a KISS firewall/dhcp/gateway as it has built in pcmcia and is really slim hmmm now you have me wanting to try it don't wipe what you have but you should test it sometime i.e., just be aware of it when someone else wants a linux firewall Action: jcater kicks wx around a bit the damn thing won't let go of mouse events now can someone with a graphic browser and of course a search for "wxpython releasing mouse" on google returns US grrrr lookup dc1003J digital network linux in google and try to tell me what driver to use? i have unknown network card the chip says digital 21040-AA DC1003J 21-40593-02 DEC 1993 S42167-15 That appears to be an SMC EtherPower PCI card A 9501 with a Digital chipset ok what driver in 2.4? if you happen to know duh well google returned 3 hits all OS/2 Action: jcater searches google groups i suppose if i plugged the fricker in and ran lspci -v i would get more info brb rebooting dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "[BX] Pretzel Boy uses BitchX. Shouldn't you?" jcater_ (~jason@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. help ok new card is tulip driver same as other card in there both come and work i can ping out to net and ping internally on this box now HOWEVER now none of my other boxes can use net they can ping this box 192.168.100.90 but not anything on the net are they set up to use 192.168.100.90 as their default gateway? apt-get install ipmasq states ipmasq is already installed any suggestions yes they are gateway 192.168.100.90 in the interfaces file for them hmm Action: jcater is thinking Action: jcater doesn't use linux for any NATing i had similar issue before i think i restarted networking on both machines still no dice woudl a route or something tell me something is there some config of ipmasq i need to do on this box? /etc/ipmasq/rules/A01interfaces.rul ? or /etc/ipmasq/rules/* ? is ip_forwarding enabled? ipchains setup? for the record this machine was working two days ago i upgraded the kernel and things stopped working i replaced the isa card with the pci one from which to which kernel? upgraded with a stock debian kernel? and both cards work but ipmasq doesnt or a custom compiled kernel? yes stock, i see no reason to compile kernels what does lsmod show? 2.2.x to 2.4.18 whoa, big jump /bin/sh: lsmod: command not found well for 1 i think firewalling techniques changed from 2.2 to 2.4..... no? wtf? no lsmod? something is whack Maniac they definitely did bedtime this is debian right? jcater if you arent root you dont have lsmod ;) jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jcater isn't root jason@jcater:~/cvs/gnue$ lsmod Module Size Used by Tainted: PF Mvnetd 8848 1 (unused) Mvnet 52054 0 [Mvnetd] ... Module Size Used by Not tainted parport_pc 22056 1 (autoclean) lp 6368 0 (autoclean) parport 22976 1 (autoclean) [parport_pc lp] iptable_nat 12980 0 (unused) ip_conntrack 12940 1 [iptable_nat] ip_tables 10528 3 [iptable_nat] tulip 37408 2 ide-floppy 11168 0 rtc 5528 0 (autoclean) unix 13316 7 (autoclean) ide-disk 6624 5 (autoclean) ide-probe-mod 8064 0 (autoclean) ide-mod 130860 5 (autoclean) [ide-floppy ide-disk ide-probe-mod] ext3 56736 4 (autoclean) jbd 35048 4 (autoclean) [ext3] have you set up iptable scripts? up whats nuts is i just did apt-get install iptables and it wasnt there i.e. its downloading now sigh was expecting change in firewall but not routing hmm iptables installed but doesnt seem to do anything Action: jcater isn't sure ipmasq will work with iptables iptables only installs support you have to create your own rules is there a good doc somewhere? nevermind i dont have gui to read it Action: dneighbo has no clue on iptable scrips is there some tool to aide in this? sigh now im thinking this is why i had a 2.2 kernel i didnt want to forgo the netfilter/iptables headache brb dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "[BX] Leggo my Eggo!" jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-245-216.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client" dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. wtf i have done nothing and im live now? i figured i woudl give up and get x workign on that machine so i could try to use firestarted er firestarter come back to thsi machine and now it can see the net Action: dneighbo scratches head dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. kostich_ (kostich@195.209.45.135) left irc: kostich (kostich@195.209.45.135) joined #gnuenterprise. kostich (kostich@195.209.45.135) left irc: jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-246-127.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@62.47.247.178) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi bbl Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left irc: "Client Exiting" jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jeffsw110 (~kopeteuse@146.145.164.54) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. chrono_ (~chrono@pD9EB3719.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi dneighbo hi ajmitch you are up early nope or you never went down ;) it's 1am here ah for some reason i was thinking like a 3 hour diff nah which would mean it was 3am there SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-125.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: 3hour +1 day ;) heh hmm, i've yet to try out designer changes i'm behind in my uni homework tho, which needs done by tomorrow ;) Action: ajmitch opens emacs & tries to recall latex syntax \begin{document} \end{document} the sap-db team is just too cool hi jamest how was vacation? i heard on NPR or somewhere yesterday that there is an investigation on AOL accounting practices? Action: dneighbo is curious if they will go way of enron/mci/etc Action: ajmitch looks at the geeks4christ website http://www.msnbc.com/news/785116.asp confirmation to that 'i heard' vacation good where did you go brason, mo hi jamest jamest: hillbilly j/k i assume you meant branson Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dneighbo wonders if anyone outside KS, MO, AR, TN knows what branson is :) whoops, yip branson you do shows down there? or theme parks? or just sit and do nothingness (the best kind of vacation) Action: dneighbo thinks you should have told jcater to meet you there ;) btw: i was thinking branson would be good central place to have GNUe conference not NZ? um i would love to come to NZ like really really love to come NZ might work OK but us americans get confused when everyone around us is named andrew three places i would to visit a. New Zealand/Australia b. France/Germany/Italy (Europe) c. Israel (just not right now too much turmoil) what? no KS? man jamest: i have been there WAY to much what you got against dried up crops and cows? remember i originate from Kansas City ToyMan (~Stuart@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dneighbo throws the chains around ToyMan hahaha have you now hey dneighbo ;-) just back from Wisco spent 24 hours in the Cincin airport :-( dneighbo: it worries me that you didn't mention Austria in point b. ;-) dneighbo, jamest - what are you doing here in the middle of the night?? :) Arturas: what? it's only 1:40 here! 1) here = ? dres_ (~dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) 2) 1:40 => AM or PM ? in Lithuania is already 3:40 :) anyway, can we then discuss a bit about i18n? now we can have translated menus 1:40 am here of course :) here == NZ ajmitch: it's very informative :/ :) and today == friday :) ah have i18n data and manipulate with it in fields what else do we need? jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan: thats just wrong heh, I'll say.. reinhard: austria is to be implied with the (europe) comment line of t-storms closed all the airports on the east coast Arturas: I have 0 time for things right now, playing catchup jamest: apt-get install catchup tells me no such package is this a windows game? ok, i'll try to catch you in the day-time (my evening :) dneighbo: i think it was a typo, should have been ketchup :) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning Jason :) hi jcater wassup? hey, this was just a friendly 'hello' :) hi jcater hi all the syntax for foreign keys that you and jan are definining is not what the xsl's are expecting Action: jcater has not defined any foreign keys that whole thing needs to be discussed as jan is doing a lot of stuff in there in schema that has not been discussed via the main stream so it is better that i speak to jan well ok that wasn't my point but sure Nick change: SachaS -> SachaS_away ToyMan_ (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~Stuart@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "later" dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) bye bye ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-246-127.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client" gack where did jcater go? jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. neep bye Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: bkuhnIdle -> bkuhn jeffsw110 (~kopeteuse@146.145.164.54) left irc: "Using Kopete IRC Plugin" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (~psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (~psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: No route to host bbs big boob syndrome? jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-246-38.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. jhs (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ToyMan_ (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~rm@62.47.247.178) left irc: "No problem is so interesting that you can't just walk away from it" Eraserhd (~jasonf@h-66-166-85-122.SFLDMIDN.covad.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Anyone with authority on xml2sql, .gsd in here? siesel (jan@dial-194-8-196-96.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi ! hello. btami (~btami@195.228.11.44) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Eraserhd: possibly I can help you? (xml2sql) siesel: i have some issues about schema hehe, me too. First a note: I'm not using gnue or working on it, but in the spirit of not inventing wheels, would like to use xml2sql. xml2sql is really in the early stages (maybe you remember me from a whil back). I don't think we are satisfied with its current state just fyi :) jcater: I plan on doing some hacking on _something_ ;-) siesel: in sample.gsd tags has no field attrib Action: jcater wasn't discouraging you just doing full disclosure :) Action: Eraserhd grins. btami: yes, it should be this way. value is optional. the idea of xml2sql is it will be part of common i just read GSParser.py any product with a gpl compatiable license may use it i dont necessarily seeing us packaging it outside common as ultimately in will be a tool too small in the toolbox of GNUe to segregrate out i think the idea is that integrator and designer will provide solid interfaces to it Eraserhd so what were you thinking or what questions do you have? siesel: field attrib is required on tags Well, first thing is what is the thinking about having tag? ... instead of just putting in ? btami, In my understanding: field shouldn't be required, so I will change that 1 to a 0 in GSParser.py Maybe I should back up a bit... I would like to collect multiple schemas into a composite schema. can i ask before more changes are made to .gsd that they be documented and sent to dev list siesel: but that way you can use it limited, only with all columns as i dont have time currently to necessarily discuss in irc and i want to make sure its heading in directions we intended Eraserhd explain more end game im thinking you do this with includes so schema1.gsd has and schema2.gsd dneighbor: the includes could conceivably overlap, so the "combinator" would have to be smarter. example: and if you wanted both all_schema.gsd file1:

... file2:

or if you use a diff utility you need a: GNUe schema tranlation hint file /tranlation/transformation/ The hints would have to be fairly complex. Here's an example I just did today: Used to have `record_deleted bool', changed it to `record_deleted timestamp' and `record_deleted_by text' and record_deleted is null <=> record_deleted = true. The hint would also have to take into account different versions. ... e.g. if I change `record_deleted' in the future, and client skips a version. I don't think there's a way around a tested upgrade script, but the diff utility (which prompts) is useful for developing on one db and publishing to another. I'm thinking there should be two levels to the XML. The upper level is the .gsd, the lower level is abstracted SQL syntax. lower level = jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. Use .xsl to convert lower level to pgsql/mysql/MS. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" Use .xsl to convert .gsd to .xsql (?) Use program to collect .xsls. ur, .gsds btami (~btami@195.228.11.44) left #gnuenterprise. hmmm... pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) left irc: "[x]chat" Another question... if I write my stuff in C, does that hinder its use in the GNUe project? I hear they string up C programmers at the edge of town as a warning siesel i dont see why create another thing Eraserhd i would say all upgrade files are preserved bbl so you have 1.0.gsd and then you move to 1.1.gsd and produce 1.0to1.1.gsd and then 1.1.gsd becomes 2.0.gsd and you produce a 1.1to2.0.gsd then 2.0.gsd become 98.gsd (this is a redmond version release) dneighbor: okay, that works. and produce a 2.0to98.gsd if someone never upgraded from 1.0 but wants to move to 98 the simply apply the upgrades in succession 1.1to1.1.gsd 1.1to2.0.gsd 2.0to98.gsd OK, but why would the upgrade be a .gsd? why not The .gsd is sort of a declarative "this is what the database looks like", whereas the upgrade file is a "here's how to get from a to b" i see it in my simple mind long term having the dif program so i do a here is what it looks like (db independent) then i do a here is what it looks like now (db independent) and produce a diff (which only makes sense to be db independent) i guess for me is i see upgrades as drops adds and such alters which are just additional 'syntax' Well, right, but there aren't any of those in a .gsd i.e. if gsd does insert create update or such i see no problem making it support alter drop add Hmm. I don't like that. would it make everyone feel warm and fuzzy to have a .gud gnue update defition and maintain yet ANOTHER .xsl file? What about the two-level thing I was talking about above? i guess im not seeing the reasoning for having separate I think it actually makes things simpler. other than a fetish unlike the i dont like my peas to touch my mashed potatoes Action: Eraserhd . o O ( my wife has to eat things in order... ) hehe. i guess my feeble minds sees the guts as the same so i dont see a need to make something 'different' I'm thinking that how I plan to use this is tainting the conversation... at this point, I don't care about db independence for my project. ... perhaps in the future, but then I've hacked the PostgreSQL parser, pulled it out, and done strange things with it, so PostgreSQL is pretty language independent for me ;-) to me that is only reason xml2sql is around (db independence) well after you try SAP-DB you will be wishing everything you have for postgres was done with xml2sql so you had a quick migration path SAP-DB? postgres is a good little database, but it has friggin issues is sap really that much better? not as many as mysql but still nearly everytime i go to do complex things i get bit in the arse their demanding of having things cast is silly at best example: for doubting thomas' (one i hit yesteraday) do that's a penalty of the flexibility of their typ system. s/typ/type/ select some_field, some_other_field from sometable and it will work then do select DISTINCT some_field, some_other_field from sometable and it will work then do select 'placeholder' as some_holder, some_field, some_other_field from sometable and it will work thne do select DISTINCT 'placeholder' as some_holder, some_field, some_other_field from sometable and it will fail hehe I see why. and thats perfectly valid SQL syntax select DISTINCT 'placeholder'::text as some_holder, some_field, some_other_field from sometable will work but thats just deplorable and it gets worse doing operators on integer/float must be cast which is fine if you only want to use postgres but if you are doing any kind of x DB stuff you are hosed as its so non standard dres: but its better cause you get more well mysql says table level locking is good cause its faster I've never really needed to port SQL code, so I don't worry about it. i say 'bad logic poncho' except for extreme circumstances :) postgres has other oddities as well its still a good db Action: Eraserhd . o O ( ALTER TABLE DROP COLUMN.... oh, wait ) but from what i have seen of SAP-DB i think thats where its at especially because its supported on windows exponentially better Hmm... commercial or Free? GPL so even a better license than postgres ;) Action: Eraserhd puts SAP-db on his to-investigate list. plus they have about 100 developer unit still actively developing it and specifically they have 3 folks committed to the Free/Open Source community Is this IBM? and my interaction has been nothing less than spectacular SAP AG every tool in the kit is LGPL and the database is GPL they released make environment (custom vmake) as LGPL on request within 14 days SAP like multi-million-dollar-ERP? they provide cd's for free including shipping of product (windows/*nix) plus source