[00:02] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-98-14.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
colonel (~arun@210.212.236.134) left irc: "Client Exiting"
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-99.wasp.net.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
MicahY ([u1tV1KcWg@12-225-21-62.client.attbi.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
psu (peter@158.152.23.141) joined #gnuenterprise.
MicahY ([u1tV1KcWg@12-225-21-62.client.attbi.com) left irc: "[x]chat"
reinhard (~rm@62.47.246.222) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (peter@158.152.23.141) left #gnuenterprise ("switching logins").
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-89-74.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> morning
<siesel> dneighbo: still awake?
<siesel> how can I get attachements from DCL tickets?
reinhard (~rm@62.47.246.222) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect"
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey_ (~alexey@195.151.214.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
alexey_ (~alexey@195.151.214.34) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("going shopping for new inkjet").
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-89-74.netcologne.de) left irc: "Real IRC clients know "to" is a preposition, not an adverb"
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-13.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
sledge_ (~sledge@B9766.pppool.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<sledge_> ajmitch?
sledge_ (~sledge@B9766.pppool.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/981227-pre0.9"
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-13.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-13.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
dyfet (~dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-194.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
dyfet (~dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-194.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-13.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
sledge_ (~sledge@B93d8.pppool.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<sledge_> hi jbailey
<jbailey> Heya sledge_.
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-95-134.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<sledge_> siesel!
<siesel> hi sledge, hi all
<sledge_> siesel: anything in the queue for appserver?
<siesel> yes, I wrote some notes about transaction support and locking.
<sledge_> where?
<siesel> just need to add the stuff to _featuretest
<siesel> on a good old piece of paper :)
<sledge_> oh really :)
<sledge_> good place, that's where software design belongs IMO
<siesel> its a more concrete definition then that "object_life_cicle.png" docu
<siesel> at: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/appserver/object_life_cicle.png
<siesel> but I want to do some work at that visual schema designer first :)
<sledge_> i suppose transactioning looks simpler that it is to code
<siesel> you say it. And I think writing transaction deadlock detection will be much more difficult to do code than simple transactional locking :)
<siesel> but there are many other small steps to go: f.e. appserver should read out a configuration file etc.
<sledge_> erm, since python 2.x, there is a module for that in the standard distribution
<siesel> yeah, so it should be piece of cake :)
psu (~psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> hi psu
<psu> hi siesel
<siesel> sledge: do you have any ideas concerning the visual schema designer, except that it should look a bit like the query designer of pgaccess?
<sledge_> well, i have a very specific idea on how it should look like :)
<sledge_> you really want to hear them?
jcater (~jason@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> werd up, homies
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<siesel> hi jcater
<sledge_> my master
<siesel> sledge: yes
<sledge_> well :)
<sledge_> reference fields through drag and drop
<sledge_> wait, i'll draw it up for you
<siesel> possibly you can draw something into my first implementation. I send you a screenshot
<sledge_> okay
<siesel> jcater: how can I deactivate menu entries in child instances like removing the "debug" entry from the schema designer?
psu (~psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
<sledge_> okay
<sledge_> some thoughts on behavior:
<sledge_> the order of fields should be draggable
<sledge_> a new field is created through that little "+"
<sledge_> connection of reference fields are created with d&d, the links are drawn automatically (->pgaccess)
<sledge_> tables should be freely positionable, positions should be saved
<sledge_> if you have something running, just commit it and i will fiddle around with it
<siesel> I agree to all of the things you said above, just the last point is a bit problematic
<siesel> (positions should be saved)
<sledge_> i know
<siesel> because I don't want to store the positions in the gsd.
<sledge_> but from a designer's perspective this is a big win.
<sledge_> i already thought about "how to save the positions" - saving them in .gsd is not nice, right.
<siesel> And that would mean, that you would need a seperate file for every gsd
<sledge_> that way sucks as well
<sledge_> perhaps someone else has an idea, but i suppose there is no easy AND clean solution to that
<siesel> or, what I would like, to have a position cache which safes the positions for the last 5 files
<sledge_> for the last "n" files, configurably :)
<siesel> I know, you would set it to 9999 or something like that :)
<sledge_> i don't know who told you rumors that i'd ever do that :)
<siesel> but until we have a solution like that, and even then,  the automatic positioning should have a high priority
<sledge_> honestly. i think caching is a good idea. usually, you work heavily in the development phase, where visual aids are welcome. when maintaining the package, you use the schema designer rarely.
<sledge_> automatic positioning?
<sledge_> well
<siesel> yeah, depending on foreign key conections tables should be positioned in a way make it easy to look at
<sledge_> yes, the table with the most connections in the middle
<sledge_> s/middle/center/
<jcater> erm
Action: jcater didn't intend on the first version of schema designer to be an ERD
Action: jcater was thinking ala access (grid table)
<jcater> ERD to me would be a secondary window
<siesel> Why not use display modes, i.e. you can switch between graphical or table view
<sledge_> siesel: *support*
<sledge_> jcater: ERD != schema designer
<sledge_> in a schema designer, you don't use 1..1, 1..n relations
<siesel> or, if it looks like access (i.e. tabbed windows with tabs on the left) why not add a visual table view/edit  tab?
<siesel> btw. ERD = Entity Relationship designer?
<sledge_> though, you could extend a schema designer to be an entity relationship designer
Action: siesel has to start another computer to look how access is doing it
<siesel> jcater: its just, that looking at a visual representation of tables, makes things more easy to understand for me than a tabular representation :)
<siesel> are there any big changes from access 2000 to access XP ?
<sledge_> siesel: version number *g*
jbailey (jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<dneighbo> sigh
Action: siesel is a bit unsatisfied with the "access" way of handling things
<dneighbo> can we keep things simple re schema editor in designer
<dneighbo> and have REAL design sessions for the rest
<dneighbo> siesel: well we all have different opinions
<dneighbo> i am not a huge access fan but in reality
<dneighbo> 90% of the business population uses access
<dneighbo> and knows how to use it
<dneighbo> and you CANT discount that
<sledge_> well, access itself sucks, because "desktop database" is an oxymoron
<sledge_> but there are still some good ideas in it regarding UI (and some that suck - that's the be sorted out)
<siesel> yes, but you know that the main reason for that is that access looks like word, and the only database which is taught in buissnes schools is access
<dneighbo> sledge_: the UI interface adn the 'jet engine'
<dneighbo> are two COMPLETELY different things
<dneighbo> people in my office regularly use access to get at mssql, db2, informix and interbase
<dneighbo> and postgres
<dneighbo> im not saying its a perfect UI its far from it
<dneighbo> but some of its stuff good
<dneighbo> and there is a HUGE factor to be able to say
<sledge_> access makes it comfortable to mess up visualization code with business logic
<siesel> ok, two things: a) when can we held that "REAL design session" about schema (both markup and designer questions)
<dneighbo> if you can use access you wont be too lost in GNUe Schema Editor
<dneighbo> BUT i digress
<dneighbo> the goal of gnue is not access
<dneighbo> and it certainly should have its focus on schema designers and such
<dneighbo> there are so many other parts of GNUe that need attention it seems silly to put too much effort early on into schema stuff
<dneighbo> short of making it work
Action: dneighbo would really like to propose for all products no UI changes w/o screen shots and explanations before hand
<dneighbo> since we cant all get in a room with a white board
<sledge_> hm
<siesel> because we can't all get in a room with a white board (except when we find a sponsor for flight tickets :) )
<jcater> err, I'm back
<jcater> to me, having tables with lines connecting them to show foreign keys IS close enough to ERD to call it that
<jcater> and we have a hard enough time getting wx to play nicely with our form layout editor
Action: jcater can't imagine at this point getting it to do custom widgets nicely
<sledge_> jcater: that's what i thought as well
<jcater> and I tend to agree with dneighbo re keeping it simple initially
<jcater> I'm also not proposing we create an access-like application
<jcater> just that their table designer is simple and works
<jcater> and wouild be easy to code
<sledge_> could it be that we all have the same in mind
<jcater> um
<sledge_> siesel: flight tickets to NY w/ return flight are about 2000eur
Action: jcater didn;t mention automatic positioning or remembering coordinates anywhere in what I was describing
<sledge_> either remembering coordinates or automatic positioning; otherwise, visual display won't help anything
<siesel> sledge_ : :)
<jcater> this tells me we are talking two different things
<sledge_> okay, tell me the precise diff
<jcater> wtf are you remembering coordinates of?
<jcater> it's a friggin spreadsheet-like grid
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<sledge_> of the tables, which are displayed visually with their foreign key connections on a canvas
<jcater> exactly
<jcater> this is what I'm saying is overkill for the time being
<sledge_> there are two modes: editing the tables in grids, and visual display on a canvas
<sledge_> so, strategically, either visual display has to be left out or done right
<sledge_> the decision on what to work is left to the hard-core developers; i wouldn't mind such a tool when siesel wants to commit time to it
<dneighbo> jcater: if i understand you correctly you want access like table creator?
<jcater> for the time being
<jcater> table designer
<siesel> btw. what would be needed to modify the "Schema Navigator" to be a "Schema Editor" too.
<dneighbo> the one where its column
<dneighbo> (s)
<dneighbo> key - name - type - size - note
<dneighbo> and then when you highlight a row on the grid (i.e. a field)
<dneighbo> you get a form at the bottom of the grid that changes based on 'type'
<dneighbo> and in above no size is listed (my bad)
<dneighbo> and in the little form
<dneighbo> you define
<dneighbo> null
<dneighbo> not null
<dneighbo> indexed
<dneighbo> etc etc etc
<dneighbo> is that the 'grid' you speak of jcater?
<dneighbo> will everyone be here for another hour/
<dneighbo> i have to run to the office i can do some screen shots and such to better facilitate the discussion
Action: dneighbo runs away for a bit
Action: dneighbo is away: office
<jcater> "done right" is highly subjective
<jcater> I threw away my ERD packages 3 years ago
<jcater> because they are counter-productive
<jcater> and once you move beyond a few tables, totally useless imho
Action: jcater isn't arguing against such a tool in the future
Action: jcater is just saying be careful using the words "strategy" and "done right" around me
<sledge_> this is a subjective subject, indeed
Action: jcater must run an errand quickly....
Action: jcater is away: afk
<sledge_> personally, even with large databases, a visual designer and, more important, a way to print out the visual version
<sledge_> :)
<sledge_> is very helpful
Action: siesel can understand that its quite complicated to work visually with more than 20 tables
<sledge_> again, this is very subjective; for me, it worked :)
<sledge_> siesel: godlParser.py wants to import "Objects", which does not exist..
<sledge_> well
sledge_ (~sledge@B93d8.pppool.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/981227-pre0.9"
<siesel> slegde: (if you read the log) godlParser.py is work in progress, with middle-low priority (in comparison to transactions :) ) ...
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
sledge_ (~sledge@B2d0c.pppool.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> wb
<siesel> sledge: godlParser.py is work in progress
<sledge_> re
<sledge_> yes, i read it in the logs :)
dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo_> sorry took me longer than i thought
<dneighbo_> you guys get anywhere re: schema editor
<siesel> wb dneighbo
<dneighbo_> thx
<sledge_> dneighbo: no real progress
<siesel> dneighbo: a visual editor could look like that: http://ash.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/vschema_mod.png 
Action: jcater is back (gone 01:25:47)
<dneighbo_> looking now
<jcater> is that your rendition?
<jcater> or have you already coded that?
<siesel> the code version is:  http://ash.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/vschema.png
<dneighbo_> thats a nice 'visual'
<dneighbo_> but again i want to keep it simple
<dneighbo_> i would be happy starting VERY simple
<dneighbo_> do you have pgadmin installed?
<dneighbo_> i.e. even if we get gui done as you are pasting shots
<siesel> no, just saw screenshots
<dneighbo_> wx has been will not polite with drag/drop and mouse stuff
<dneighbo_> so it scares me to put too much effort (i do want something like what you are pasting very badly)
<dneighbo_> but im going best bang for buck to start with
<siesel> ok, so what about making it an optional way to display and edit schemata, btw. at the moment (treeview broken, etc ) it would be the only way ;)
<dneighbo_> hold on
<dneighbo_> i see two things
<dneighbo_> what you are showing is more a 'relationship' or 'query' builder
Action: jcater would like to see a simple main window with this as a secondary view
<dneighbo_> and im thinking right now that is 'fluff' (i.e. more complex than we need to tackle right now)
<jcater> (we really need dockable windows so ppl can choose which is the main window)
<dneighbo_> im concerned with BASIC
<dneighbo_> single table creation/modification
<dneighbo_> i.e. im not against what you are proposing but i think its the 'second' step
<dneighbo_> not the first one
rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-4-64-030-076.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo_> i 'think'
<dneighbo_> this might be the 'grid' jcater is talking about for general table creation
<dneighbo_> http://gnue.org/~dneighbo/viewer.jpg
<sledge_> yep
<sledge_> "jcater's grid" == "hack the schema viewer to be a designer" ??
<dneighbo_> i really like pgadmin
<dneighbo_> i woudl love to see a cross db cross platform equivalent
<sledge_> except for the visualization, it does what it should.
<dneighbo_> but for now its more than we need to bite off
<dneighbo_> it uses 'trees' for everything
<dneighbo_> im not huge on that but its pretty functional
<dneighbo_> reminds me a lot of BDE Administrator
<siesel> BDE Administrator ?
<dneighbo_> something that allows me to add/delete/modify tables would make me happy
<dneighbo_> im not worried about the 'relationship' side just yet
<sledge_> siesel: borland database engine admin., shipped with most borland products
<dneighbo_> sledge_ yip
<siesel> hmmm, wasn't shipped with Borland Pascal 3.0  ;)
<sledge_> certainly not :)
<sledge_> it was a 100% windows construct
<sledge_> limited, but functional
<siesel> dneighbo: to say the truth, I never planed to go to that far (ERD) so early.
<dneighbo_> sledge_ i never used it for anything much than managing ODBC DSN's and viewing structures
<siesel> first aim is a grafiphical object tree replacement
<dneighbo_> but i think that is a lot of designer's will be needing
<dneighbo_> i would like to see ability to alter tables and such so we have one way to do it for all dbs :)
<sledge_> agree
<siesel> jcater: dockable windows,   I would like that
sledge_ (~sledge@B2d0c.pppool.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/981227-pre0.9"
<jcater> fsck
[13:01] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<jcater> jcater's grid != hack
<jcater> dammit
Action: jcater is away: playtime w/kid
<siesel> dneigbo: should I use double or single mouse click for selecting a table ? what do you think?
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: dneighbo_ wonders who is the kid
<dneighbo_> depends on the ui
<dneighbo_> most people HATE double click
<dneighbo_> im used to it so generally it doesnt bother me
<siesel> double click seems to be easier to code, but single click is easier to use, ... I will see ..
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<siesel> first visual "navigator" added to cvs :)
dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@tmp-200253.flinthills.com) left irc: "back home"
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-95-134.netcologne.de) left irc: "....o:....o:..."
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> wb me
<psu> ;-)
<jcater> welcome back!
<jcater> you
<psu> thnx ;=)
Action: psu loves checkbot
<psu> it rox my sox
<psu> works exactly the way I would want it to 
<psu> if I'd written it myself
<psu> 'cept it works, which it wouldn't do 
<psu> if I'd tired it.
<jcater> checkbot?
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> web link checker
<psu> nothing special
<psu> just works just like my own, twisted mind ;-)
<jcater> nifty
<psu> http://www.e-envoy.gov.uk/news/newonsite/oss-policy.htm
<psu> UK Government will consider OSS solutions 
<psu>                       alongside proprietary ones in IT procurements. Contracts 
<psu>                       will be awarded on a value for money basis. 
<psu>                    
<psu> UK Government will only use products for 
<psu>                       interoperability that support open standards and specifications 
<psu>                       in all future IT developments. 
<psu>                    
<psu> UK Government will explore further the 
<psu>                       possibilities of using OSS as the default exploitation route 
<psu>                       for Government funded R&D software.
Action: psu would prefer to see "free software" in there as at least an alternative terminology
<psu> but this is good stuff ;-)
<psu> Oh yes, and next time you get a free s/w = weak security FUD attack 
<psu> simply say
<psu> The UK govt says 
<psu> "             Properly configured OSS can be at least as secure as proprietary 
<psu>                       systems,
<psu>  In some cases mainstream proprietary products 
<psu>                       may be significantly less secure than open source alternatives 
<psu>       
<psu> ok, end of mini-flood ;-)
Action: rdean isn't "free software" a strict subset of "open source software"?
<psu> and "copyleft" a strict subset of "free"
<psu> s/copyleft/strong copyleft
<rdean> it would seem that they're using the terminology that encompasses more alternatives
<psu> Problem is that open source can mean anything
<psu> e.g. when I was an Oracle Financials implementor
<psu> I had the technical ref manuals with all the schema (=source code, sorta)
<psu> but they had to be kept under lock & key 
<psu> and of course were completely non-redistributable, even within the org
<psu> some people might claim that is "open source"
<rdean> even proprietary software vendors will hand over at least some of their source code to close a share code (ala Microsoft's "shared source" program)
<psu> yep
<rdean> from the customer's viewpoint, it makes sense to demand the source code to even proprietary products, as risk management in case of the vendor's demise.
<rdean> that doesn't mean it's "open" source, though
<psu> usually the supplier's counter to that is an escrow agreement
<psu> for the source
<rdean> and I was just about to mention that
Action: psu shuts up & lets rdean finish ;-)
<rdean> that was all I was going to say
<rdean> ...I'm testing out X-Chat on LM9.0b1 right now...seems they've finally fixed the "maximize causes core dump" bug.
<rdean> thinking about getting the DB2 UDB 8.1 open beta and seeing if that will run on 9.0
Action: jcater is away: house repairs
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("bedtime").
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-2-cust175.ren.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-153.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> hey siesel
<siesel> hi drochaid
<siesel> do you have any experiences in games programing with wxPython?
<drochaid> none whatsoever I'm afraid
<siesel> I need a splite, or any way to restore the background behind a moving object
<drochaid> do pc cards support bitplanes yet?
<siesel> :) 
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<ajmitch> hi all
<siesel> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> siesel: is it possible to get a list of methods & stuff that a gnu-rpc server exports, from the client?
<drochaid> allo ajmitch
<ajmitch> hi drochaid
<siesel> yes, the xmlrpc protocol supports a "system.listMethods" call.
<siesel> At the moment there is no standart defined for GNURPC
<ajmitch> which is what i want to work out with you :)
<siesel> cool :)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> I just hope that you don't speak of tonight (local time 2.22 am)
<ajmitch> certainly not
<ajmitch> i don't want to inflict too much pain on you :)
<siesel> btw: do you know a good way of restoring the background behind a moving object in wxwindows? 
<ajmitch> nope, never used moving stuff in wxwindows, only boring static things :)
<siesel> you should try: there is a designer/src/VisualEditor.py file, with many parts to be improved :)
<ajmitch> ah ok
<siesel> btw. I heard that labor party get ~ 40 %
<ajmitch> yup
<siesel> And I didn't know that ~5% unemployement is a good number
<ajmitch> yeah, according to economics ppl it's about usual
<siesel> hmm, I just know that germany has about 4 million unemployed, don't know the percentage, but this is quite bad.
<ajmitch> yes
<siesel> ok, I should go to sleep,... night all
siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-153.netcologne.de) left irc: "Real programmers code it into the client"
rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-4-64-030-076.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
Action: dneighbo is back (gone 11:50:33)
Action: dneighbo wonders if jcater is still doing home repairs?
<ajmitch> hi dneighbo
Action: ajmitch will bbiab
gontran (~gontran@206.228.140.70) joined #gnuenterprise.
<gontran> hi!
<dneighbo> yo
<dneighbo> how is montana 
<gontran> yo dneighbo!  MOntana is 
<gontran> big sky contry!
<gontran> I can say that North Dakota is definitively scary at night :)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<gontran> I'm in billings, at the internet cafe! ce za
<gontran> I just wanted to poke my nose in here ... I'm still hell bent on that curses interface - make no mistake about it.
<dneighbo> cool
[23:15] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<gontran> I'm going to be in Edmonton AB on the first for the bioinformatics open source SIG at the iscb.org annual ...
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<gontran> http://open-bio.org/bosc2002/
<gontran> where I am hoping to give a demo of designer ...
<gontran> 0.3 anyway -- cvs was broken a couple of days ago when I checked.
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> sigh xmms freaking out
<gontran> re
<gontran> heh
<gontran> tailing that log?
<gontran> I'll pick up :)
<dneighbo> made X well lets say 'unstable'
<gontran> http://open-bio.org/bosc2002/
<gontran> where I am hoping to give a demo of designer ...
<dneighbo> cool
<gontran> Just trying to find time between crossing the west and making to Edmonton to do it :).  How's AZ treating you?
<dneighbo> hot
<dneighbo> well actually nice tonight
<gontran> :)
jhs_ (~jhs@cs6668105-78.austin.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> gack 
<dneighbo> sarge scares me
<dneighbo> latitude:/home/dneighbo# apt-get upgrade
<dneighbo> Reading Package Lists... Done
<dneighbo> Building Dependency Tree... Done
<dneighbo> The following packages have been kept back
<dneighbo>   timidity tora 
<dneighbo> 185 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2  not upgraded.
<dneighbo> Need to get 104MB of archives. After unpacking 9225kB will be used.
<dneighbo> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
<ajmitch> heheh
<dneighbo> last time i did upgrade like 40 or 50 CORE packages were held back
<dneighbo> now basically none
Action: dneighbo crosses fingers and hits enter
<ajmitch> sarge must be fairly up with sid now
<gontran> allrighty gents ... gotta go
<ajmitch> hi gontran
<gontran> until we meet again!
<ajmitch> bye gontran
<gontran> oy ajmitch!
<gontran> bigups to the gnue crew!
gontran (~gontran@206.228.140.70) left irc: "Read error: 2.71828182846 (Excessive e)"
<ajmitch> still no wxPython 2.3.2.1 in sid tho
<dneighbo> this is funny
<ajmitch> hrmm?
<dneighbo> using Mozilla 1.x
<dneighbo>      Microsoft? .NET Passport no longer supports the Web browser version you are using. Please upgrade to a current Web browser, such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator version 4.08 or later.
<dneighbo> kind of funny
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> MS playing dirty?
--- Sun Jul 28 2002