jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hi jcater
<jcater> 'sup?
<stbain> whoa!
<stbain> I'm in the KC
<ajmitch> hehe, congrats stbain
<stbain> lol
Action: stbain dances a jig
Action: ajmitch is too!!
<ajmitch> i bet jcater is in there a few times
<stbain> there were a few other RPMs I had to install, but I can't remember what they were off the top my head
<stbain> I think one was mx datetime
<stbain> not sure what the other one was
Action: jcater would prefer to not be in KC
<jcater> as I don't like being quoted
<jcater> ppl might hold me to stuff in the future
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> heh
stan (~stan@1Cust103.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
stan (~stan@1Cust103.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net) left irc: Client Quit
stan (~stan@1Cust103.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<stan> anybody home?
<ajmitch> yep
<stan> I'm looking for Derek, neilt, or jcater
<stan> There is a conference in Washington DC in October that we should be at in force
<stan> It is on e-government
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> during the week?
<stan> and free/open-source software
Action: jcater is under contract to not take any vacation between Sep 1 and Dec 31
<jcater> :(
<stan> The due date for proposals for speakers or demos is August 19
<stan> jcater:  Its the 17-18 ofOctober
<jcater> Hmm, that's a Thursday - Friday
<stan> jcater:  do you know if neilt might be available?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I haven't seen neilt in quote a while
<jcater> s/quote/quite
<jcater> so I have no idea what his schedule's like
<stan> I would be willing to be on multiple presentations
<stan> We could do it jointly with myself and others
<stan> And I could fill in if others couldn't make it
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> that sounds like a good backup
<stan> We would need to put a demo together
<jcater> we'll have brochures and pamplets by early next week (for LWE / San Fran)
<stan> I have a laptop now that can run GNUe
<jcater> and derek has been preparing a demo for that show
<jcater> so he should have notes, etc
<stbain> hrmm
<stan> We could submit the brochures for the conference proceedings
<stbain> where @ in DC?
<stbain> I live a few hours away (Southwestern VA)
<jcater> stan: is this a LWE-type setup w/booths as well as presentations?
<stan> At the World Bank/IFC Auditorium, 2121 Pennsylvania Ave.
<stbain> hehe... I know exactly where that is
<stbain> right down the road from an old client of mine on 1700 block of Pa Ave
<stan> I don't know.  The info is at www.egovos.org/oscfp.html
<jcater> you mean, they're gonna let those unpatriotic, communist, Free-software-luvin terrorists in Washington?
<jcater> :)
<stan> It is sponsored by George Washington Univ and others
<stbain> interesting
<jcater> I think we should plan to have a booth if stbain could possibly make it
<jcater> (and others too)
<stan> The World Bank and the UN
<jcater> as even having a manned booth with pamplets is better than nothing
<stbain> Panel presentations will be 90 minutes, including a question and answer period. There is a maximum of 4 panelists per session. (You may propose complete panels, or we may assemble the panel based on individual submissions).
<stan> I don't think they will have booths.  The announcement talks about 4 sessions per day of 90 minutes each plus a proceedings
<jcater> ok
<jcater> so the group would only need to be there for 1 day?
<jcater> (depending on when their pres was?)
<stan> the proceedings is being called the "conference handbook"
<stan> could be 1 day or two
<stan> I can be there both days.  It's just a Metro ride for me
<stan> btw stan=sklein
<stbain> you live in Northern VA?
<stan> Rockville MD
<stbain> whoa!
<stbain> hehe
<stan> where are you?
<stbain> I used to live in Rockville (Congressional Towers) and work in Bethesda
<stbain> I moved back home (Roanoke, VA) in '98
<stan> I could walk to Congressional Towers in about 5 minutes.  I'm in the houses the other side of Rollins Ave
<stbain> wow... small world
<stbain> well... should we try to see if they're going to have booths?
<stan> Roanoke isnt that far.  We drove down to Natural Bridge for some jazz concerts a few years ago
<stbain> yah
<stbain> depending on the 66 traffic, I can be in downtown dc within 4 hours or so
<stan> The announcement doesn't talk about booths
<stan> But who knows.  They may change their minds
<stan> If they have space to put stuff
<stbain> true
<stbain> something for the people to do between the presentations
<stbain> if I can get away for the day, I'd be more than happy to give the presentation
<stbain> but I'll need someone a little more technically familiar w/ the overall project to help me answer questions
<stan> Also, the facility is an auditorium.  They would need to have space on an open floor for booths
<stbain> true, unless they have a small number in the lobby or something
<stan> I'm figuring we should sign up for three presentations
<stan> I can present an overall business case for free/open-source s/w
<stan> I've already written that a few times, and can include some articles I've written
<stan> The second should be a demo of GNUe
<stbain> heh... someone already beat you to the first one... from the website:  # Business Cases: The Economics of Using Open Source Software and Total Cost of Ownership
<stan> The third should be a presentation on using GNUe for e-government
<stan> I also tie it to avoiding onerous terrms and conditions a la UCITA
<stbain> fourth should be a call for developers of similar projects to feel their frustration and come to the light side of the force... joining us to become invincible and rule the univers
<stan> They might not accept my overall, but I have it twice in 900 word versions
<stbain> I'll give the presentation on why the IRS should be using PostgreSQL for all of their internal data shuffling needs
<stan> Well, it makes sense to suggest that big organizations pay their people to contribute to GNUe and join the "Innovation Commons" (Lessig's term)
<stan> It's cheap enough for the IRS.  They always want to do things on the cheap
<stbain> well... if they start using it, perhaps we'll finally get some enterprise clustering solutions built into it
<stan> It might be too early to offer that as a readymade solution for them
<stbain> we'll just have them put their programmers right on it
<stan> jcater: when does the email come back up?
<derek> sigh
<derek> stan: if my wife wouldnt divorce me if i went, i would be there
<derek> as i actually work for a government agency a LARGE one
<stan> BTW, I think they may be very interested in developing country use
<derek> one that as of end of july i think officially will be committing to a GNUe DCL implementation
<derek> i dont have the funds to travel there
<jcater> I would if I could get off work
<derek> but i think perhaps FSF or the show might pick up the travel costs
<jcater> as I haven't done any travelling this year
<stan> I doubt the conference would pick up any travel costs
<derek> i still will have two days this year allotted for speaking engagements
<jcater> but that's a really bad time of the year
<stbain> yes... even I would need some help w/ travel expenses even though I'm driving
Action: stbain is so poor right now it isn't even funny
<derek> so stan you are probably our best bet
<stan> well, my travel cost is about $5 round trip
<stan> per day
<stbain> derek: which .gov do you work for?
<derek> maricopa.gov
<stbain> ahhh
<stan> derek: is neilt available to help?  He is in the DC area (or at least was the last I heard)
<stbain> you work for a county w/ a .gov domain? that's weird
<stbain> all of the ones here (most of them) have a .va.us domain
<stan> derek's domain is probably really .az.us
<stan> Well, it's coming up on beddie bye time for me
<stan> Discussion to be continued
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "rebooting"
<derek> stan: i havent talked to neilt for a long time
<stan> I will try to cobble some proposals together
<derek> i 'believe' he is still in VA/DC area though
<stan> and we can discuss them somehow (by email or otherwise)
<derek> crikey, anyone seen dtm in a while?
<derek> ajmitch???
<derek> stan: sure derek@gnue.org
<ajmitch> derek: aye?
<stan> I thought the gnue.org mail server was down for a while
<ajmitch> haven't seen him in a couple of days
<stan> I would have posted all this to the discussion list, but I thought I couldn't
<derek> hi ToyMan you reall here
<stan> derek:  I'll email you the proposals when I get them done (or as 1st drafts)
<derek> works for me
<stan> OK,goodnight all
stan (~stan@1Cust103.tnt14.dca5.da.uu.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> jcater: you reboot too much to be using linux
Action: jcater is in the remote office :(
<ajmitch> derek: agreed
<jcater> trying to tweak the diskless' settings
Action: ajmitch managed to get triple digit uptime! 
<jcater> wow!
Action: derek dials 1 900 BUS-TBSA
Action: jcater needs a UPS to do that :)(
<ajmitch>  14:55:15 up 101 days, 7 min, 16 users,  load average: 1.42, 0.90, 0.97
<derek> well ihad triple uptime on two machines and had to kill them both
<derek> er one had a power freak out (re UPS)
<ajmitch> this is my main desktop box
<derek> the other needed some kernel upgrades and such
<ajmitch> so it's pretty good for me :)
<derek> currently at the office my main box has had about 180 days 4 consecutive times :)
<derek> 180 - Change to Debian - 180 unplug to physically move to new office - 180 - kernel upgrades
<derek> er guess that is only 3 times
<derek> its bad as i installed fluxbox on it and made a bunch of tweaks
<derek> then like 80 days later X was getting flaky so i restarted X
<derek> and i lost my fluxbox settings and it had been so long since i did it, i couldnt recall how to change half the stuff :)
<derek> needless to say when i did, i promptly saved the session, live and learn i guess
<ajmitch> X has been running here for the 101 days
<derek> as i look at gkrellm and see 10 days im so disappionted
<derek> but i must remember
<derek> a. a storm took it down, which i capitalized by upping to 2.4.18 and ext3
<jcater> my remote office averages an uptime of 2-3 days :)
<derek> b. 10 days is nearly 5 times as long as i ever got out of a windows desktop i did development on ;)
Action: ajmitch recalls the longest uptime he had on windows was 3 days - didn't use the computer over a weekend ;)
<jcater> what I find odd is I have Win4Lin running on debian at home and at work
<jcater> it's a full win98 install running on top of linux kernel
<jcater> (not emulation
<jcater> )
<derek> doh, i need win4lin something fierce or wife will kill me sometime :)
<jcater> and I get uptimes of 30-45 days with it
<jcater> go figure
<jcater> but on the SAME box, I got like 3-4 days when running Win98 natively
<derek> well you know what they say about trying to impress your friends
<derek> or in sports they say certain players can make others perform beyond their ability
<derek> maybe debian is like a star athlete that just brings out the best in win98 when they play together :)
<jcater> Win98 *flies* under Debian
<jcater> it trips me out
<jcater> (I think they say because win4lin uses the native underlying filesystem, which of course is much faster than FAT32)
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> muhahah two of me
<dneighbo> wow, my play list suprises me some times....
<dneighbo> Rosemary Clooney - Mambo Italiano
Action: jcater is listening to: Why the fsck am I working at 10:36 90 miles away from home on a Sunday night?
<dneighbo> hmm is that by Mrs. Cater?
<jcater> Mrs Cater and the P*ssed Off Allstars
<jcater> yip
<dneighbo> roflmao
<dneighbo> i liked their first album
<dneighbo> Da Sonsabitch Spends No Time with Me
<jcater> (alternate title: But ahelluvalot o' time w/GNUe)
<dneighbo> Laurie and the AssKickers did a cover a year ago that was quite nice
<dneighbo> grr where is taht pysablot .deb
<dneighbo> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/
<dneighbo> help
Action: dneighbo gives nickr a nudge
<dneighbo> any chance they are on your site nickr?
<dneighbo> dude nickr's home page just rocks
<ajmitch> ash gone walkabout?
<jcater> yup
<jcater> ash is moving to a bigger home
<ajmitch> up in the sky?
<dneighbo> jcater: you have it some where
Action: dneighbo wonders if i have it on a box here
<dneighbo> man i get the weirdest stuff its great
<dneighbo> incubus, pod and def tones singing space cowboy
<dneighbo> live and acoustic of course
Action: ajmitch has pysablot deb here
<dneighbo> can you post to net somewhere
<ajmitch> ajmitch.dhis.org/~ajmitch/pysablot2.1_0.1-1_i386.deb
<dneighbo> http://ajmitch.dhis.org/~ajmitch/pysablot2.1_0.1-1_i386.deb
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> sorry lazy
<dneighbo> easier to do here and launch download than actually do anyother way
<ajmitch> lazy
<dneighbo> nickr: you rock, that deb makes life so nice :)
<ajmitch> heh
<dneighbo> ajmitch: many thanks for posting :)
<ajmitch> no probs
Action: ajmitch watches google run thru his site
jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201040.flinthills.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<nickr> Oh, no problem :) I'd just like to upload it someday.
<ajmitch> today is a fine day to do so
<nickr> ajmitch: except for the lack of copyright, license and readme or anything ..
<ajmitch> ah
<ajmitch> yes, that could be a blocker
<nickr> and as much as I pester derek about arranging that, it hasn't happened yet
<dneighbo> nickr: i actually went to do this weekend and dcl is down
<nickr> dcl has to be up?
<dneighbo> um im a freak
<dneighbo> im a list person
<dneighbo> you can relate to that cant you?
<nickr> if you know it has to be done, why do you need the list?
Action: jcater should email dneighbo's wife the URL of DCL, so she can add "Spend time w/wife"
<jcater> since he needs a list and all :)
<nickr> teehee
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<nickr> wow, my big ergo keyboard is so comfortable after playing counterstrike and black&white and empire earth on a tiny little crap keyboard for days.
<ajmitch> hehe
<nickr> tiny isn't really adequit
<nickr> its really really small
<nickr> smaller than most laptop size
<nickr> I should get a KVM instead.
<dneighbo> suffering some serious keyboard envy over there are you
<nickr> I have a big manly keyboard that I do almost all typing on
<nickr> :)
<nickr> Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro wireless ergo keyboard
<nickr> booya!
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> psu!
<psu> hi aj
<jcater> hi ra3vat
<jcater> err
<jcater> psu
<dneighbo> sup psu
<jcater> (dumb xchat)
<jcater> well, hello ra3vat if you're here too :)
chillywilly_ (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly_ (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<chillywilly> sup my home billies
<jcater> word
<chillywilly> hey jcater
<chillywilly> sorry I did a jcater for a minute and started another xchat because I forgot about the first ;)
<nickr> yow
<nickr> leaving parts of computers laying around on the floor is bad for the feet
<Isomer> yeah
<ajmitch> and for the parts
<nickr> well
<Isomer> leaving them precariously balanced up high is bad for ones head too
<nickr> I doubt my soft feet will harm the sharp metal of a drive mounting
ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hmmm, hasn't been too busy of a week in gnue land...
<nickr> nop
<psu> while the websites away, the mice will play ;-)
<chillywilly> what ahout when the chillywilly is away?
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> the other penguins will throw icecubes at a picture of him
<chillywilly> btw, I have a confession...I too love GNUe :)
<nickr> Gross!
<chillywilly> ;P
<nickr> i'm outta here
<chillywilly> bye
<chillywilly> just don't get typhoid
<chillywilly> or break your leg
<chillywilly> that could be the end of you up there on the Oregon trail
<nickr> I bought pleanty of extra wagon tongues
<chillywilly> :)
<nickr> and I'll eat the oxen if neede
<nickr> neebe
<nickr> needBE
<nickr> zzz
<chillywilly> is that your the lead oxen's name?
<chillywilly> neebe
<chillywilly> s/your//
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("shackling my oxen off to work...").
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-218.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "nite"
Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Arturas> Hello
<ajmitch> hi Arturas
<Arturas> hi ajmitch :)
SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-70.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-218.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
Raven (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise.
Raven (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-70.wasp.net.au) left irc: "Client Exiting"
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-70.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left #gnuenterprise ("lunch").
Yurik (~yrashk@195.5.1.188) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Yurik> re
Yurik (~yrashk@195.5.1.188) left #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-195-14-251-227.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> hi all!
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey ppl
<jamest> hey
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-70.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
<siesel> hi James
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat"
Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Arturas> hi again :)
jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Arturas> good morning jamest :)
Action: ajmitch plays with dcl
<jamest> morning
jbailey (jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-78.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> yo jbailey
<jbailey> Heya andrwe
<ajmitch> just setting up dcl from your debs
<ajmitch> found a couple of issues that i should report
<ajmitch> like wrong path in the apache.conf
<jbailey> Mm..  it doesnt' touch the apache.conf.
<ajmitch> in /etc/dcl
<jbailey> Ah, I see. =)
<jbailey> I need to upload a new version today.  File a bug in the BTS please?
<ajmitch> sure
<ajmitch> hmm, how important is it?
<jbailey> Is what?
<jbailey> a bug is a bug right? =)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> reportbug is picking up debconf stuff...
<jbailey> Yup.
<jbailey> I like reportbug
<ajmitch> didn't think you had debconf stuff for dcl tho? 
<jbailey> I don't =)
<ajmitch> hmm, maybe picking up from the previous dcl package?
<jbailey> The previous dcl package might've had some though
<ajmitch> short bug report
<ajmitch> but oh well :)
<jbailey> I really try to discourage bug reports through anything other than the BTS.  When I sit down to do a new release, I open up the BTS page and work through as many as I feel like, and then I upload.
<ajmitch> as it should be
<ajmitch> think you could provide some nice defaults for priorities, severities, etc ;)
Action: ajmitch won't bother putting that as a wishlist bug yet
<jbailey> Put it sometime before you want it to happen, but I'll probably forward it upstream for comment. =)
<jbailey> Since I'm not a regular user of DCL, I would have trouble being certain of 'sensible defaults'
<ajmitch> yeah, that's what i was thinking
<ajmitch> derek would probably be best for that
<jbailey> Yup.  If you got Derek to file the bug report, that would be ideal.
<ajmitch> he might be awake soon
<ajmitch> and on irc
<ajmitch> bloody hell the database limits are small
<ajmitch> length 10 on short fields, 20 on long ones
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> we're toast
<jamest> derek got his question posted to slashdot
<jamest> last week we were on a nice fat pipe to the net
<ajmitch> uh oh
Action: ajmitch looks
<jamest> this week we're on a small dsl line mirror machine while our main server gets UPS'd across the US
Action: ajmitch wondered what happened to poor ash
<jamest> the ISP was bought out
<ajmitch> cos i was trying to look at DCL on there :)
<jamest> new CEO was saying that it'd cost $$ to stay
<jamest> and the person I was to contact wouldn't reply to my emails
<jamest> so I pulled it in fear
<ajmitch> ah that's a worry
<ajmitch> where's it going to?
<ajmitch> got webalizer running on the temp box to look at the hits? ;)
<ajmitch> ah, you do
<jamest> dunno, this isn't our box
<ajmitch> ok
Action: ajmitch grabs dcl source to check that the bug wasn't local brokenness for jbailey
<ajmitch> sigh, i just don't see where this file is from :)
<jbailey> *which* file? =)
<ajmitch> now i do
<jbailey> That's what I asked. =)
<ajmitch>  /etc/dcl/apache.conf
<ajmitch> it appears to be from an earlier dcl version 
<jbailey> Ah, okay.
<ajmitch> made it easy to get dcl going, i just uncommented the include in the main apache config :)
<jbailey> *lol*
<ajmitch> ah well, looks like the bug was a false alarm :)
<jbailey> Excellent.
<jbailey> ;)
<ajmitch> shall i follow up on the bug? :)
<jbailey> Please. =)
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> hi Jason
<Arturas> hello Jason :)
Action: dneighbo walks through whistling conspicuously
<Arturas> HELLO DEREK!! :)
Action: dneighbo runs away
Action: dneighbo is away: work
<Arturas> am i so scary?? :( :(
Action: jamest sees derek, grabs a stick, and chases after him
<jcater> I'm gonna fsking KILL derek
<jcater> grrrr
<Arturas> guys, guys, shouldn't we all be friends? :)
<jcater> j/k
<jcater> actually, my DSL line is holding up
<jcater> as well as monsoon
Action: jcater is quite pleases
<jcater> s/pleases/pleased
<Arturas> pleased == "gonna fsking KILL derek" ?? :)
<jcater> lol
<jcater> of all the times to submit us to slashdot
<jcater> normally, we are behind a T1 or better
<jbailey> Hah!  Funny.
<jcater> but, no, he waits until I mirror it behind my dsl
<jbailey> "because sapdb is like gnue.  Even with help it's a bitch to install" =)
stbain|w3rk (~stbain@66.207.65.76) joined #gnuenterprise.
<stbain|w3rk> greetz
<stbain|w3rk> well... looks like we're going to apply for free (as in beer) software licenses from the Evil Empire
<jamest> ?
<stbain|w3rk> http://www.microsoft.com/usa/midatlantic/community/softwareDonation.asp
yogurt2unge (~charlie@modem126-adsl1.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-195-14-251-227.netcologne.de) left irc: "BitchX sucks"
<nickr> derek gets posted
<stbain|w3rk> you mean postal?
<jcater> no
<jcater> jcater gets postal
<jcater> derek gets posted
<jcater> :)
<stbain|w3rk> only thing I don't see on this sheet that I think we'll need is MS SQL Server
<stbain|w3rk> hrmm
Action: jcater started on an MS SQL driver
<jcater> I got a pretty good ways with it
<stbain|w3rk> is there a Win32 postgres port?
<jcater> but don't have a copy to do the final debugging with
<jcater> :(
<stbain|w3rk> doesn't the sybase driver work with MSSQL?
<jcater> stbain|w3rk: yeah, but its via cygwin iirc
<jcater> err, that was re postgres/win32
<stbain|w3rk> hrmmm
<stbain|w3rk> yah... I know
<jcater> I'
<stbain|w3rk> I have cygwin installed on my home PC
<stbain|w3rk> I was hoping for something a little more native
<jcater> man, what I find really odd about most of the slashdot posts re SAP-DB
<jcater> are they basically ask "but why would you want something that big for web apps?"
<jcater> who the fsck said anything about web apps?
<jcater> :)
<stbain|w3rk> heheh
<stbain|w3rk> I've used PostgreSQL for web apps in the past and it hauls butt once you have the connection open
<stbain|w3rk> performance difference between it and MySQL was negligble
<stbain> true
<stbain> nice namew
<stbain|w3rk> thank you :)
<stbain> hehe
<stbain> fish ok?
<stbain|w3rk> go ahead and change your nick, it won't change the one on ETG
<stbain> none of them were belly flopped?
<stbain> ok
<stbain|w3rk> nope... they were all alive and kickin'
<stbain> whew
<nickr> posted on /.
Nick change: stbain -> stbain-home-away
<stbain|w3rk> heh... you can change it to MrsStbain if you want
<stbain-home-away> :o
Nick change: stbain-home-away -> MrsStBain-around
dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@65.101.4.211) joined #gnuenterprise.
<stbain|w3rk> nice post Mr. dneighbo
<stbain|w3rk> I'm reading some of the responses now
<dneighbo_> i need to read them myself i saw a few
<dneighbo_> the best is 
<dneighbo_> "If SAP-DB is so good, why then do most R/3 customers use Oracle."
Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left #gnuenterprise ("See you tomorow :)").
<nickr> because oracle gave them such a sweet deal, I mean $100k! Beauty!
<dneighbo_> well thats the argument
<stbain|w3rk> hehe... it's a good questoin
<dneighbo_> if sap-db is so good and free why are people paying top dollar for oracle
<dneighbo_> of course my gut reaction is
<dneighbo_> "so why do you run linux again?"
<dneighbo_> i mean most fortune 500 wont touch it and they would rather pay for windows
<dneighbo_> so obviously your an idiot for using linux
<stbain|w3rk> dneighbo: you missed my earlier comments...
<stbain|w3rk> looks like we're going to apply for free (as in beer) software licenses from the Evil Empire
<nickr> well don't they get some crazy developer support for the top dollar they pay oracle?
<stbain|w3rk> through their Community Software Donations and Grants program
<stbain|w3rk> http://www.microsoft.com/usa/midatlantic/community/softwareDonation.asp
<stbain|w3rk> if you can open it (for some reason it times out on me)
<stbain|w3rk> heh
<stbain|w3rk> I know why nobody uses it for SAP installations
<stbain|w3rk> you just have to read the fine print on the website
<stbain|w3rk>  SAP DB can be used free of charge in non-SAP environments.
<stbain|w3rk> There are various Support Models offered for SAP DB.
<stbain|w3rk> If you use SAP DB as a database system for SAP solutions, a maintenance contract is required. 
<jcater> nickr: /me hopes that was being sarcastic :)
<nickr> jcater: I'm not, but I was being hopeful.
<jcater> dneighbo_: what trips me out about most of the posts is they basically ask "but why would you want something that big and complicated for web apps?"
<jcater> nickr: well, it ain't so
Action: jcater speaks from experience
<nickr> sadness
<stbain|w3rk> doesn't what I just pasted violate the GPL in some way?
<nickr> so what are you getting? pain and misery at top dollar when you can get it for free? :)
<jcater> yup
<jcater> the advantage of an Oracle support contract
<stbain|w3rk> i.e. "You're free to redistribute and modify to your liking, but if you use it with this other software over here, you have to pay us"
<jcater> is you get periodic upgrades "free"
<jcater> so it's a lot cheaper to maintain a support contract
<jcater> than to purchase an upgrade outright every 2-3 years
<jamest> jcater: that's so pathetic, just use mysql
<jamest> what more does a biz need?
Action: jamest runs
<jcater> now, don't get me wrong... Oracle is one helluva piece of software
<jamest> but it's nothing as l33t as mysql
<jcater> true dat
<stbain|w3rk> s/helluva/feature bloated/
<jcater> well
<jamest> oracle rocks
<jcater> depends on your needs
<stbain|w3rk> true
<jcater> for a website
<jcater> sure it's bloated
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk  no its not violation of GPL
<jamest> but is a bi0tch to setup/maintain
<dneighbo_> BECAUSE sap owns the copy right
<stbain|w3rk> ??
<dneighbo_> just like mozilla and open office are owned by parent companies that do DUAL LICENSE
<dneighbo_> so SAP can choose to release SAP-DB under the GPL
<dneighbo_> and yet offer other licensing to it as well
<stbain|w3rk> so I can release my code as GPL and w/ a stipulation that in order to use it, you have to pay me a support contract
<dneighbo_> because they own copyirght they can do as the like
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk : no
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk: you could however release your code and say version A is available under the GPL
<dneighbo_> version B is available under the STBAIN license
<stbain|w3rk> but its the same version
<dneighbo_> if you want to use stu's crazy app it only works with version B
<stbain|w3rk> ahhhhhh
<stbain|w3rk> ok
<nickr> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=37305&cid=4012449 best... response... ever
<stbain|w3rk> hrmmm
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk i think its just confusing because they are trying to be HONEST
<dneighbo_> i.e. they arent restricting a GPL app
<dneighbo_> they are just putting notice on the GPL one that hey dont download this and expect to use it with SAP/R3 w/o paying maintenance
<stbain|w3rk> they should tie the contract to the SAP product, not the database
<stbain|w3rk> that's not the way I read it... the way I read it is that if you use SAPDB w/ SAP... you _must_ have a support contract
<dneighbo_> correct
<dneighbo_> i think they want to make that abundantly clear
<dneighbo_> but again its not a stipulation i think in the GPL license of SAP-DB
<dneighbo_> but probably clauses in SAP R/3
<stbain|w3rk> right
<dneighbo_> that do the 'enforcing' of this
<stbain|w3rk> col
<stbain|w3rk> s/col/cool/
<stbain|w3rk> hrmm... Microsoft's website is unbearably slow... I wonder if some skript kiddie is attacking them or something
<stbain|w3rk> BTW... I meant to ask you
<stbain|w3rk> is DCL usable for a helpdesk tracking system?
<stbain|w3rk> like... straight out of the box?
Action: stbain|w3rk pokes dneighbo
<dneighbo_> yes
<nickr> neep
<stbain|w3rk> cool
Action: stbain|w3rk goes to downlaod
yogurt2unge (~charlie@modem126-adsl1.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<stbain|w3rk> doh
<stbain|w3rk> permission denied on select query
<stbain|w3rk> grant all on dcl to gnue;
<stbain|w3rk> ?
<dneighbo_> huh?
Action: dneighbo_ needs more context to compute :)
<stbain|w3rk> nm
<stbain|w3rk> I figured it otu
<stbain|w3rk> I had change config.php and forgot to change grant.sh accordingly
<stbain|w3rk> duh
<stbain|w3rk> ok
<stbain|w3rk> it's instaled and running
<stbain|w3rk> sa password is changed
<dneighbo_> ah
<dneighbo_> stbain definitely go to the admin portion and setup the tables
<dneighbo_> tehre should be like a 10 step list of things to do
<dneighbo_> the trickiest one (that kills 9 out of 10 folks) is the setting defaults for products
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk if you were on debian you could have apt-get install dcl ;)
Action: dneighbo_ runs and hides behind a suitably large geforce video card
<stbain|w3rk> lol
Action: stbain|w3rk takes out self-flagellation whip
<stbain|w3rk> nice... set up my own priorities
Action: stbain|w3rk copies the priorities from Cisco's TAC website
Action: stbain|w3rk looks @ dneighbo
<stbain|w3rk> what's weight?
<stbain|w3rk> higher == more important or lower ?
<dneighbo_> um crap i always forget
<dneighbo_> i think lower is higher :)
<stbain|w3rk> ok
<stbain|w3rk> cool product
<jamest> ping
<dneighbo_> pong
<stbain|w3rk> question is... how do I dumb it down to be able to tell my users "if you have a problem, goto this web address and type it in"
<dneighbo_> who sings that 'thong song' ?
<dneighbo_> maybe a techno geek remix 'pong song' needs to be made
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk easiest way is to setup the email gateway
<dneighbo_> then users simple emails to
<dneighbo_> productname-support@yourdomain.com
<dneighbo_> and a ticket is auto generated for them
<stbain|w3rk> hrmmm
<stbain|w3rk> not as easy as it sounds
<dneighbo_> using subject as short desc
<stbain|w3rk> I'm not through w/ our email conversion yet
<dneighbo_> message body as the trouble ticket
<dneighbo_> and binds attachments
<dneighbo_> what are you converting too?
<dneighbo_> btw: you can have this run separate
<stbain|w3rk> so we're still using a mixture of Microsoft Mail for internal and externally hosted POP3 for external email
<dneighbo_> i.e. you can have the product-support@domain.com come in and be 'forwarded'
<dneighbo_> to the server DCL is on (running its own mail daemon) to do the processing
<dneighbo_> that is what mike does
<dneighbo_> exchange gets the email and auto forwards it on to a postfix (iirc) server
<dneighbo_> that processes it
<stbain|w3rk> if we get Exchange, that's probably what I'll do
<dneighbo_> in the mean time i keep meaning to make an easy 'web form' to submit tickets
<stbain|w3rk> yah... I can tell already that it's way too complicated for my users
<stbain|w3rk> even something as simple as doing away w/ the admin/project/work order screens would help
<dneighbo_> stbain|w3rk : sigh im booked for two weeks really
<stbain|w3rk> just take them straight into "tickets"
<stbain|w3rk> it's no biggy
<stbain|w3rk> this was an added bonus
<dneighbo_> its on my todo list to have a 'ticket' entry screen (as others are asking for it)
<stbain|w3rk> not something I've comitted to the higherups here to have... just something I wanted for myself
<stbain|w3rk> hrmmm
<stbain|w3rk> not geared towards a helpdesk... users can enter tickets for any account
<dneighbo_> ?
<stbain|w3rk> in other words... I have a user named stuart
<stbain|w3rk> when I log in as stuart
<stbain|w3rk> w/ security level 3
<stbain|w3rk> which is create tickets only
<stbain|w3rk> I can go in and create a ticket
<stbain|w3rk> but all of the "Accounts" show up
<stbain|w3rk> so I guess I should only have one account "Rescue Mission"
<dneighbo_> right
<dneighbo_> RBAC (role based access control) is coming soon
<stbain|w3rk> okie dokie
<dneighbo_> i dont know your structure so its hard for me to recommend
<dneighbo_> i.e. who is your customer (who is submitting tickets)
<stbain|w3rk> customers are my end users here @ the rescue misssion
<stbain|w3rk> so... John Doe over in the thrift store can't open Outlook
<dneighbo_> ok so you only have one mission?
<dneighbo_> multiple locations?
<stbain|w3rk> yup
<stbain|w3rk> nope... one location
<dneighbo_> multiple functions?
<stbain|w3rk> define functions
<dneighbo_> if just one mission/location/function
<dneighbo_> then i would make a single account (Rescue Mission)
<dneighbo_> function (some segment of business you would want to track as an account)
<stbain|w3rk> right
<dneighbo_> perhaps say the mission serves food, it sells clothes, it does X
<stbain|w3rk> well... we have the Thrift Store
<stbain|w3rk> the Kitchen
<stbain|w3rk> exactly
<dneighbo_> maybe each of those would be an account
<dneighbo_> if you wanted to track 
<dneighbo_> i.e. would the boss ask
<dneighbo_> how many times did the kitchen call for support vs how many times the thrift store
<stbain|w3rk> but I defined those in departments
<dneighbo_> or such
<dneighbo_> ok
<dneighbo_> that was giong to be my other suggestion :)
<dneighbo_> i.e. where you put them isnt necessarily critical just you put them so you can report on them :)
<dneighbo_> i would do 1 account
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<dneighbo_> then do the others as departments
<stbain|w3rk> ok
<dneighbo_> and then for products i woudl put what you support
<dneighbo_> i.e. i think dcl works nicely for things other than TECH support ;)
<dneighbo_> as a general 'project management tool'
<dneighbo_> i.e. ticket side woudl be mostly tech support
<dneighbo_> but the work order side you could offer to management for other tasks :)
<dneighbo_> specifically its GREAT for reporting to management what IT is doing :)
<stbain|w3rk> yah
<dneighbo_> like putting task lists for implementing new accounting
<stbain|w3rk> I found all of those functions and they look great
<dneighbo_> or switching mail etc
<dneighbo_> as the boss can be autonotified as statuses change and such
<dneighbo_> and cutesy little management reports can be done for staff meetings
<stbain|w3rk> right
<stbain|w3rk> can the department head/end users be notified of changes?
<stbain|w3rk> more specifically the dept head
<dneighbo_> yes
<dneighbo_> via 'watches'
<stbain|w3rk> shweet
<dneighbo_> you can setup 'watches' by a myriad of things
<dneighbo_> specifically if there are projects or projects you can set them up to alwasys get notified
<dneighbo_> s/or projects/or products
<stbain|w3rk> cool
<stbain|w3rk> perhaps you can help me by explaining the difference between the priorities and the severities
<dneighbo_> but certainly you can do one time watch by ticket or work order
<dneighbo_> priority is how quick it needs to be done
<dneighbo_> maybe
<dneighbo_> high
<dneighbo_> medium
<dneighbo_> low
<dneighbo_> severity is how it affects the product
<dneighbo_> you might say why would it be different
<dneighbo_> well if i have a 'critical' problem it probably will always be 'high' priority
<dneighbo_> but say i have a 'trivial' problem
<dneighbo_> if some peon has the problem it might be 'low priority'
<dneighbo_> if the CEO or the largest customer has it, it might be a 'high' priority
<stbain|w3rk> if the executive director has the problem
<stbain|w3rk> right
<stbain|w3rk> makes sense now
<dneighbo_> of course if the CEO has the problem it probably doesnt matter, cause your peon butt will probably fix it before you even consider opening DCL to give it a priority. ;)
<stbain|w3rk> true
<stbain|w3rk> but for the smaller stuff ("Move my phone extension to the other side of the room"), I want a nice list I can go down
<stbain|w3rk> any SMS notification for emergency type problems that get submitted?
<stbain|w3rk> e.g. send a short message to my mobile phone whenever someone opens up a ticket labeled "Emergency" in priority and "Critical" in type
<dneighbo_> you could easily add that
<dneighbo_> especially if your phone takes email message
<dneighbo_> s
<stbain|w3rk> yah
<stbain|w3rk> hrmm
<stbain|w3rk> I think I'll use it for IT only needs for now and then introduce it once RBAC comes along
<stbain|w3rk> no reason to overwhelm my users with projects/work orders/tickets/etc.
<stbain|w3rk> it will only confuse them more than they already area
<stbain|w3rk> s/area/are/
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<stbain|w3rk> some day when I'm like... getting paid to write free software code, I'm going to tie DCL into OpenNMS and have the ultimate network VAR monitoring tool
<stbain|w3rk> hehe
<stbain|w3rk> time for me to head to job #3
stbain|w3rk (~stbain@66.207.65.76) left irc: "Ni@"
Chipaca (~john@modem126-adsl1.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Chipaca> holass
<Chipaca> (hi all)
<Chipaca> jcater: what happened to http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/debian/pysablot2.1_0.1-1_i386.deb ?
<jcater> that's on ash
<jcater> and ash is in limbo
<Chipaca> limbo://ash/debian/... ?
<jcater> james'house://ash/debian
<Chipaca> :)
<Chipaca> limbo is another name for chez toi?
<Chipaca> wow
<Chipaca> jcater: bleeding walls and all, or is that somewhere else?
jbailey (jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<jcater> chez toi?
<Chipaca> your place
<jcater> limbo == that place between life and death
<jcater> or life and hell or life and heaven
<jcater> depending on how you look at it
<dsmith> Intresting article on /. about sap db.
<dneighbo_> Chipaca read the log from yesterday
<dneighbo_> hold on must go potty brb
<jcater> as simple afk would be sufficient
<jcater> s/as/a/
<dneighbo_> sorry had potty on the mind so came through in irc
<dneighbo_>  http://ajmitch.dhis.org/~ajmitch/pysablot2.1_0.1-1_i386.deb
<dneighbo_> Chipaca that is where you can get the pysablot deb for right now
<Chipaca> dneighbo ok tks
Phython (~jim@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3565825.sympatico.ca) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@158.152.23.141) joined #gnuenterprise.
Phython (~jim@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3565825.sympatico.ca) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<Chipaca> psu: stop flooding
<psu> ?
Chipaca (~john@modem126-adsl1.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
psu (psu@158.152.23.141) left #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-95-112.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
MrsStBain-around (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
psu (psu@158.152.23.141) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-95-112.netcologne.de) left irc: "http://www.blackened.com/blackened/"
srobertson (~srobertso@codeitnat.codeit.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<dneighbo_> anyone know dos worth a crap
<dneighbo_> specifically how to do a forloop in dos
<jcater> loadlin 
psu (psu@158.152.23.141) left #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo_> http://vernon.frazee.net/ms-dos/6.22/help/for.htm#Examples
<dneighbo_> hmm i think that worked spiffy
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> harro...
<dsmith> chillywilly!
<chillywilly> howdy
stbain (~GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<stbain> greetz
<chillywilly> howdy
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<Isomer> hmm
sledge_ (~sledge@B943e.pppool.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
sledge_ (~sledge@B943e.pppool.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/981227-pre0.9"
<Isomer> what are the development tools for SAPDB like?
<Isomer> mysql has a very very nice "phpmyadmin"
<dneighbo_> any sql studs in the house?
<Isomer> pity about the db :)
<dneighbo_> i have one query that does some 'prep' work
<chillywilly> hi dneighbo_
<dneighbo_> and another query that does some totalling
<dneighbo_> i wish to call only the second table
<dneighbo_> but the first query is one that does the filtering
<dneighbo_> so im wondering how do some nasty subselect
<dneighbo_> or
<dneighbo_> do a stored proc
<dneighbo_> so i can basically call the second one, but be able to filter it
<dneighbo_> i tried to merge them into one query but had little success
<dneighbo_> anyone 
<dneighbo_> anyone
<dneighbo_> beuller beuller
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly does not consider himsefl an sql *guru*
<stbain> dneighbo: what about using a view?
Action: chillywilly was also thinking this
<dneighbo_> stbain well im not sure how to do this with a view
<dneighbo_> as i need the filter to really be dynamic
<stbain> hrmm
<dneighbo_> i call the second query but the filter happens on teh first query
<chillywilly> aren't views dynamic?
<Isomer> what are the queries?
<dneighbo_> so the program im using to get at the data only talks to the second query
<stbain> the second query can query the query used by the view in the first query
<chillywilly> sql!
Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> shoooow uuuuus the esssss-qqqqquuuuueee-eeeeeellll
<stbain> create view test1 (col1, col2, col3) as select name as col1, bdate as col2, city as col3 from users where accesslevel > 3
<stbain> select col1, col2, col3 from test1 where col2 < 20020805
<stbain> gotta run
Nick change: stbain -> stbain|away
<dneighbo_> doesdoesnt help
jamest_ (~jamest@fh-dialup-202101.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo_> man im just dumb i figured it out
<dneighbo_> jcater i saw this in the paper on sunday and thought hmmmm.. ralph == jcater?
<dneighbo_> http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/drabble/archive/images/drabble2002080130614.gif
<nickr> hah
<chillywilly> hehehee
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-78.wasp.net.au) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jcater_ (~jason@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater_> rofl
<jcater_> we have
<jcater_> dneighbo
<jcater_> dneighbo_
<jcater_> jamest
<jcater_> jamest_: 
<jcater_> jcater
<jcater_> jcater_
<jcater_> what is this? core tail night?
<dneighbo_> rofl
<dneighbo_> um we know theres lots of work to be done
<dneighbo_> we figure 'cloning' might help
<dneighbo_>  http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/drabble/archive/images/drabble2002080130614.gif
<dneighbo_> in case you missed it earlier
<Isomer> Mmm
<Isomer> Donuts!
--- Tue Aug  6 2002