I would read the fine manual ;) Nick change: ajmitch_ -> ajmitch dyfet (~dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) joined #gnuenterprise. its clear as day or so seems but it doesnt work grrr it wont let me return a 'set' county=# CREATE FUNCTION myquery(float8) RETURNS SETOF float8 AS 'SELECT dept FROM title WHERE dept = $1' LANGUAGE SQL; CREATE county=# select myquery(140); works BUT i can only return one column if i try to return SETOF some type grr the docs just suck dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@65.101.4.211) left irc: "i dislike postgres stored procs, la, la, la, la, la" dyfet (~dyfet@dsl-65-188-113-57.telocity.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: stbain-w3rkin -> stbain SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-64.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. stbain (GunAndGiz@ip68-10-44-170.rn.hr.cox.net) left irc: "www.gunandgiz.com" SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-64.wasp.net.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). re hey hows it goin? ok sp niggie s/sp/sup/ howdy howdy upgraded fbsd v4.3p26? to 4.6.1 last night well I rebooted hehe late night if you guys ever need to merge files.. check out the mergemaster script I still have to upgrade some virtual private servers any appserver progress? psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hey psu hi chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "night" gah how do i "escape" a % sign in a python """ string? it's trying to treat it as a parameter "\%"? ;-) % hmm %% xchat is b0rken first time i typed 2 % 2nd time i had to type 3 % to get it to display 2 :) xchat == python? xchat is written in C, but loads python modules as opposed to GNUe, which may be the other way around yeah :) if we ever run into these "performance problems with python" the C-fans keep warning us about yep the thing with python is that you can get something done quickly note geas vs appserver ;) Action: psu needs to quickly head off to work psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello hi Action: Mr_You & Isomer (dahoose@port-62-159.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Isomer (dahoose@port-62-159.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Arturas is away: Lunch Action: Arturas is back (gone 00:43:20) siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-19.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Hello Jan :) hey siesel siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-19.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) for a smile: i10n, i18n, D78g.... wha? Action: ajmitch wonders what could take 78chars found! :) Dampfschifffahrtspensionskassenchefsekretärinnenhalbjahresbetriebsausflugsbudget from http://help-site.com/LDP/HOWTO/German-HOWTO-2.html eeeevil jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning jamest :) hey jamest hey dres (~dres@4.18.171.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) left irc: Client Quit dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise. paq (~paq@202.155.120.221) joined #gnuenterprise. hullo, anyone up? yip SachaS_away (~Sacha@dialup-196-159.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hey jcater good morning jcater :) hello jcater word up, all Action: dneighbo runs away to work you think this champ is looking for a fight or what? http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/08/08/iraq.saddam/index.html i hedge my bets the bozo finally bought nukes from the ruskies (or stole them) and he is trying to provoke an attack on iraq so that he can launch them Action: jcater hopes you are way off base but doubts it jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: Remote closed the connection bye :) Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left #gnuenterprise. DOUGHNUTS YIPPIEE Work has definite benifits. yeah a paycheck well sure thats completely incidental to my lifestyle though Except that I just bought a cute little internet apliance that can run Linux http://www.tuxscreen.net/ what does that do? dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@65.101.4.211) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: dneighbo_ -> derek jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: its a little tiny arm box with a touch screen and builtin phone that you can install linux on jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "restarting x" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gah tried fluxbox no thanks... I'll stick w/kde huh? what didnt you like about it? its so clean and simple and fast and lovely I'm sure it is fine BUT seriously im curious as to what you didnt like I realized shortly after switching over almost ALL my productivity apps are KDE yeah kde apps run under flux box sure they do it just seems unnatural inconsistent look and feel Action: derek has hard time giving up tabbed windows well, I get those w/next release of KDE so I'll wait one of those things you dont know your missing until you have it it kicks serious rump for Designer being able to tab prop inspector/object inspector dialogs and form window/code window/schema window Action: derek was thinking it might be worth doing dockables in designer and offering the support even for windows and such as it really makes a productivity difference (imho) plus i whine about it when i run gnome at home :) though i should experiment i think i can run fluxbox and gnome at same time (actually i know i can) Action: derek might try that at home until sawfish or such supports tabbed windows jcater: i agree on kde vs fluxbox actually the way I look at it is I have a lot of time invested in KDE (learning-wise) and i only run flux on my subpar machines as the speed difference is VERY noticeable by the time I become equially comfortable w/another window manager the new KDE will be out with the support I want and performance isn't a big deal on this 1.7Ghz machine :) its funny because kde vs gnome vs flux isnt very noticeable performance wise on my 1.2 w/ 128mb RAM almost all load in under 5 seconds Action: jcater did want to try it out on my LTSP setup but on p200 64mb RAM as 30-40 ppl run KDE on one Pentium 400Mz (Dual) kde and gnome are about 10 - 15 second startup but, they are so comfortable w/kde but flux is about 3 sec and I don't get any complaints re speed so why break what ain't broken? Action: jcater wasn't putting down flux in any way agree, you just sounded at first like fluxbox was really bad, so was curious as to what you didnt like just saying I don't see any benefits to me switching from what I know not saying you should change :) how hard is the standalone binary install for python for windows to make? repitez s'il vous plait? if you have a python application i think you can use py2ex which will then make you a python .dll or two you then just put that on machines and they can run python apps similar to visual basics vbrunXXX.dll stuff iirc assuming you want to run python apps, but dont want a python (development) installation jqa I just wanna run shiznitz I'm thinking of doing my next windows project in python because vb is giving me rashes. Action: pattieja is away: lunch and the powers that be gave me Carte Blanc mmm white. nickr i would look at maxmillian and py2exe and such you can then do your dev on linux with python walk to a windows box and package er up for windows distribution :) my desktop is windows, but anyway. my only concern is windows-native gui and which database to use why must it be windows native gui? wx wont work? or tcl or what not? i dont know if there is a windows native gui for python to date there is talk of a wxWin32 or whatever but its not a reality Well, it would be easiest if I cgould use windows native because of how I have to communicate with a DLL yes there is a win32 native gui for python basically a wrapper around MFC beauty tchats exactly what I need do a google search for win32all And I'm hoping that there is also a way to load arbitrary DLLs... it's just a wrapper around COM, MFC, etc Action: jcater thinks you can do anything you could do in c++ but I've never used it (no need to) I just remember seeing it beauty I just need to be able to create a window handle and receive events via it ahh everything is falling into place I love it when a plan comes together. jcater - the ltsp users... did they use windows clients before that, or already on unix\linux? nickr: i dont consider MFC programming GUI :) i consider it hell i wish on no one you probably watn to use active state python as well paq: some used windows clients, others used dummy Wyse 50's (so, unix telnet) so you get full com support and such none ever used a unix/linux gui jcater - ah... was it hard to migrate? we might be trying to do the same here... windows 98 clients to ltsp... not sure which wm\desktop env yet... paq i still think blackbox/flux box could be interesting if you are not needing panels and clutter on the desktop i.e the users are doing specialized functions derek - yeah, or fvwm95 (sic).. or xfce, it's so light and simple ... personally - i use kde and wmaker derek: Well, I may in fact use WX for the actual GUI, I just need access to the MFC handles and such. now, I need something like access but non-evil derek - trying to deploy on a manufacturing plant... some are specialized (web based ERP), but not all of them (marketing guys will need email, browsing, office apps, etc)... so... wmaker on older equipment and for users that only need a few icons, the dock is ideal for that nickr: like access? wmaker is cool if you're into NeXT you mean the UI or the db jamest: er, like Access, eg a flatfile db with an easy programming interface accessable from python that only requires at most a fev DLLs. argh Action: jamest saw something like gladfly but maintained that may have worked what was it stoopid crappy memory of mine I have that same problem. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/db-sig/2002-April/thread.html the top most item "SQLite as a Light DB component for Zope and Python" i have no idea what became of this or if it'd work but it is the one I was thinking about SQLite eh pgadmin2 that's not a flatfile db ah, beauty, sqlite looks nice. jaemst: fluxbox is better (lighter) and has 'slit' that will run windowmaker dock apps ;) gadfly might be a good fit but i don't think it's maintained brb having 3rd party vendor issues derek (~dneighbo@65.101.4.211) left irc: "BitchX: its what's for lunch" sqlite is exactly the kind of 'Accessdb-without-evil' solution I was looking for now to see if it works :) http://pysqlite.sourceforge.net/ cahoochie! I'll test it tomarrow, today is define and design day oo as a test you could implement a gnue common db driver for sql-lite yeah, that's the ticket :) paq: I use KDE 3.0 exclusively it's a natural transition for everyone who uses it it also has a win98 emulation (keybindings, look, etc) but I use KDE 3 native no one has had issues adjusting of course, if this is a really low-end server, you might want to look at lighter-weight solutions like fluxbox I have around 40 ppl running KDE sessions via LTSP all on a dual Pentium II/400Mhz system (w/ 768Mb memory) that's not a particularly high-end system by today's standard esp. considering 40 ppl all run on it nickr: we use metakit (and the corresponding python wrapper) for our win32 project but it looks alot like pysqlite jcater - whoa, no performance issue? i'm looking at openmosix and lvs to provide high availability servers... we haven't purchased the servers yet, probably gonna get something around athlonxp 1800 range with 1gb memory ... no performance issues at all it's as snappy as a windows machine w/a 550Mhz processor and 64Mb ram (not blazingly fast, but more than they are used to) of course, it depends on what you are doing awesome... what do you guys run ? i plan to use mozilla, evolution (or syplheed?), openoffice.org... mainly if you are going to give everyone openoffice, that will consume resources we have about 5-10 of our users using OpenOffice regularly in this setup I give everyone either sylpheed (which I highly recommend) or kmail I used to give them mozilla but konqueror 3.0 is so complete, it does all they need now but I'm sure my situation is different hmm.. I have no idea what you're doing but this is a call-center I operate so web-browsing is an occasional thing you **really** benefit from Unix's shared libraries when running ltsp you will really notice it same here... mostly data entry jobs... thru browser or openoffice files (Spreadsheet and txt documents) cool I would be leary of an openmosix setup oh, what videocard do you use on the clients? what's the general machine spec on the clients? as that doesn't actually provide fallback support iirc i.e., if one of the openmosix nodes goes down, they all do my clients... well we have 4 133Mhz Packard Bells :) paq: how many users? but most are K6/500Mhz machines we built inhouse jcater - no it doesn't... it's really for performance (i'm not sure how much horsepower ltsp will need)... but LVS can be used for high availability... w/standard trident cards dude I' how many employees jamest - around 300, but we won't be migrating all of them together... it's also a large plant, so we may deploy a couple of regional servers (50-100 users each?) cool given the price of computers, I'd recommend the Athlon XP + 1Gb ram i've got a local biz setup w/ about 20 users and ltsp but I think doing the openmosix is going way overboard employees... 3900 heh... they are running a dual athlon 1500+ (IIRC) with 1.5Gig of ram we started w/ 1Gig but they all leave OpenOffice and Netscape running all day jamest - must be blazin fast after the initial login of someone on the system the next person was 3 seconds from kdm prompt to desktop well, it'll be hard to get blazing fast out of OpenOffice whatever you throw at it :) geez... however that slowed down once everyone gets on major issue I was having was memory the CPUs idle jamest - and what's the average memory usage out of that 1.5GB ? DDR must be useful in this setup huh... paq: do you already have the clients? from top (not the best measure :) CPU states: 3.4% user, 4.7% system, 0.0% nice, 92.0% idle Mem: 1546164K total, 1505628K used, 40536K free, 32312K buffers Swap: 2097136K total, 120684K used, 1976452K free, 177712K cached jcater - we have 486, pentium and pentium 2s running windows now... jamest@hal:~$ ps aux | grep office | wc -l 84 120MB swapped?? that's the process count for openoffice and soffice dash (washort@adsl-64-123-27-105.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dash (washort@adsl-64-123-27-105.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. yeah, one of the users is doing something odd has a 400MB process on the system right now kinda puts a dent in the avail mem hrmm... netscape is similar to mozilla, right?... do they use tabbed browsing? ... or buncha windows open...? openmosix doesn't really provide high availability mozilla has tabs.. netscape is mozilla for the most part yeah, I think he was saying he was gonna use LVM for availablility, and openmosix for performance s/lvm/lvs lvs is? openmosix sounds like an easy and inexpensive way to add cpu & memory to the mix... and network latency :) linux virtual server.. bbiab jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. hehe... gigabit ethernet on the dmz! well lvs won't really provide high availability.. more like load distribution or failover why not? you can set it up so there's no SPOF anymore... but its not high availability.. are you talking about the 5-30seconds pause if there's a node failure? H.A. usually means EVERYTHING is clustered.. including file system well, sure, use gfs or afs... openmosix defaults to gfs i think which is very difficult no openmosix has its own experimental file system AFAIK AFS isn't useful for application file systems.. I could be wrong.. GFS is still sorta experimental for application use hmm... depending on the apps in use.. you could give them NFS read-only and use a better H.A. type file system for user files.. ..intermezzo..? sure if you wanna be on the bleeding edge ;-) meaning its probably still a bit experimental file systems useful for user apps and for server apps have different requirements i see.. I cringe when someone runs a DB over NFS, but it happens.. lvs mentions coda.. stbain (~stbain@66.207.65.76) joined #gnuenterprise. greetz but i don't think lvs is gonna be useful for ltsp application server anyway.. coda and intermezzo are similar I believe stbain - greetz... are you gonna !list next? ;) oh ? what's that do? stbain - nevermind, was joking.. hehe uhhhh... ok :) FYI... I installed SAP-DB last night on my Winders box @ home pretty slick, but the DB Manager has some problems paq: generally you would want some failover capable read-only file system for user apps, and a r/w failover file system for user dirs/file systems.. then if you needed DB failover you would want to use the DBs on replication method.. s/on/own/ Mr_You - hmm.. even so, lvs can't help with ongoing session on the LTSP if the application server goes down right? nope well.. but they'll be able to reconnect and probably end up on another server lets say you had a 486 with NFS read-only app access on a mosix cluster.. wouldn't it be simpler to just advertise the other servers and let them select one... what? let an end user select something? are you crazy? lol the app should be migrated to a faster machine.. if that machine went down, the user would need to restart the app if you were running remote X apps, that makes failover more complicated hmm ... I imagine they would need to logout and login to another remote server from the console KDE/GNU login manager Action: pattieja is back (gone 01:54:27) yeah... but then, I don't have any real world experience with migrating X user apps supposedly it works fine migrating? yeah thats the purpose of openmosix to migrate a locally ran app/program to a faster machine dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@65.101.4.211) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah, too bad it doesn't have HA capabilities yet... yeah I'm actually trying to put together an H.A.-like LTSP Debian distribution cool, what are you basing it on? so keep me in mind, but not anytime soon ;-) well.. I'm working on a openmosix based prototype first, but single system image cluster linux is looking good. ssic-linux.sf.net cool, gonna read up there.. its not production quality yet.. for the most part bbiab nice... now i can sleep soundly. nite! dkesh (~dkesh@h0001031e43c6.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #gnuenterprise. question: in gnue-forms: is there any way of specifying a default for dropdown entries? should be a default="" value but should value be the fk_key or the fk_description? either way it seems to hang oh hmm not sure err, it should be the fk_key but not sure why it's hanging when i give it the fk_key, it correctly replaces it with the fk_description, but if I try to change it, it won't let me (but the dropdown still works for existing entries) nor will it save. jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi james howdy apparently someone fell into a shark tank at some zoo he h and? and apparently it wasn't feeding time ;-) no harm done I guess i wouldn't think they'd just attack we're not seal shaped but if you startled them by falling in their tank someone is saying a group of people fell in, some kids were in the group but no kids fell in might have to go enjoy the nice day in a few minutes sigh, bbiab jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" hoo ha jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. stbain (~stbain@66.207.65.76) left irc: Remote closed the connection jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) psullivan (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: psullivan -> psu psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. whats that free accounting package again? NOLA ? jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" ah yes dkesh (~dkesh@h0001031e43c6.ne.client2.attbi.com) left #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@fh-dialup-201046.flinthills.com) joined #gnuenterprise. i hate 3rd party tools