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<Sacha_dinner> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> ello
<Sacha_dinner> you are talking about 4suite. i wonder why they did not take libxml and libxslt and enhanced those :( 
<chillywilly> I dunno
<chillywilly> what license do those libs have
<chillywilly> ?
<Sacha_dinner> i think gpl
<Sacha_dinner> but not sure.
<chillywilly> I told them the advertising clase was lame because it makes it GPL cmpatible, then thy main guy proceeded to tell me he thinks the GPL is lame...
<chillywilly> er incompatible
<chillywilly> then I left the channel shortly after
<chillywilly> they use their version of the Apache 1.1 license which is VERY similar to the original BSD license
<chillywilly> has the same advertising clause problems
<Sacha_dinner> i read your discussion.
<chillywilly> ok
Action: chillywilly needs t make a grub boot disk for the computer upstairs
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Action: chillywilly is away: fixing winders for someone...*sigh*
<psu> "fixing" == c:\loadlin.exe ?
Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:02:38)
<chillywilly> unfortunately, no :(
Action: chillywilly hugs GRUB
<chillywilly> I love grub
<chillywilly> it rawks
Action: chillywilly notes GRUB boot disk saved his butt
<ajmitch> that's nice
<psu> saw the linuxtoday announcement about bayonne 1.0
<psu> but there's nothing on their own website www.gnu.org/software/bayonne yet
<psu> how "official" is this?
Action: psu ought to put a "Congrats to our friends at Bayonne" notice on website if appropriate
<chillywilly> I remember Dave telling me he was going t release soon
<chillywilly> this week he's in Macedonia
<chillywilly> iirc
<chillywilly> Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 12:05:49 -0400 (EDT)    
<chillywilly> From: David Sugar <dyfet@ostel.com>
<chillywilly> ToyMan: bayonne-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
<chillywilly> cc: bug-commoncpp@gnu.org, <hangout@nylxs.com>, <ruben@mrbrklyn.com>,
<chillywilly>    <simion.pruna@telemed.ro>, <greve@gnu.org>
<chillywilly> Subject: This week I will be in Macedonia...
<chillywilly> This week I am going to be in Macedonia.  I am speaking this Saturday,
<chillywilly> September 7th, at Expocom (http://www.expocenter.com.mk) being held at the
<chillywilly> Tiffany Expo Center, in Skopje, Macedonia, starting at 14:00.  I will be
<chillywilly> speaking primarily about "Software Literacy and the right to study".
<chillywilly> This event is open to the general public.  I will also be holding several
<chillywilly> discussions with different groups and will be in Macedonia in total from
<chillywilly> the 5th through the 9th of September.
<chillywilly> David
<ajmitch> lucky fella
<chillywilly> he gets t go everywhere
Action: psu suspects that the linuxtoday article was a bit premature
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> psu: i don't think so
<chillywilly> people want him to come speak about Bayonne and/or FS
<ajmitch> might have been
Action: ajmitch checks the bayonne lists
<psu> to be fair, there has been a pre-release of 1.0 for some weeks 
<psu> and you know how easy 
<psu> it is to confuse journalists ;-)
<ajmitch> wow bayonne-devel is *dead*
<psu> maybe they've all moved to IRC ;-)
<ajmitch> it said it was announced tuesday
<psu> hmm
Action: psu will prepare a "Congrats to Bayonne" item but hold off posting it
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Action: psu was never in the Boy Scouts, but "Be prepared" is still a good motto ;-)
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<chillywilly> hrrrm, this is not the type of grub boot disk I want
<chillywilly> I need the one that looks on the floppy for the config file
<chillywilly> blah
<chillywilly> oh found it
<ajmitch> chillywilly: build your own?
<ajmitch> that's what i did
<chillywilly> you can se the script and tell it where to look and write
<chillywilly> # mke2fs /dev/fd0
<chillywilly>      # mount -t ext2 /dev/fd0 /mnt
<chillywilly>      # grub-install --root-directory=/mnt '(fd0)'
<chillywilly>      # umount /mnt
<ajmitch> yeah
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<siesel> hi all :)
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<bt> hi all
<bt> is jcater around?
<jcater> yip
<bt> thanks for applying patches
<bt> but some notices:
<bt> 1. fo.xsl some ">" chars missing
<bt> 2. this fo.xsl was written for a modifyed monthly.grd
<bt> 3. i sended a little patch for sablotron adapter.py before
<bt> it needs 'file://' in PySablot.Processfiles(...) line
<bt>     PySablot.ProcessFiles('file://'+xslfile,'file://'+self.infile,outfile)
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> that breaks http:// references
<jcater> hmm
Action: jcater will look into that
<jcater> I'm guessing without the file://
<bt> ok
<jcater> that c:\whatever references break?
<jcater> is that the issue?
<bt> yes
<jcater> ok
<jcater> I have some code somewhere else 
<jcater> that deals with that
<jcater> I'll track it down
<jcater> and add here too
<bt> ok, thanks again
Nick change: bt -> btami
<filc> any news with the app server?
<btami> jcater: have you got any ideas about standard output tags for reports?
<jcater> filc: ?
<btami> i'm always asking this :)
<jcater> btami: formatting-type tags?
<btami> yes
<btami> last question was: why not FO
<filc> jcater: the replacement for geas
<jcater> filc: it's being worked on
<jcater> siesel is main coder for that at the moment
<jcater> I can't really say where it is
<jcater> I know he's making tremendous strides, though
<filc> do you know what the new geas is called, and if it is in cvs
<jcater> yes, is in cvs
<jcater> as /appserver/
<btami> and chilly is working on some odmg thing
<jcater> btami: do you have a good link for FO
<filc> jcater: thanks I'll take a look into it... currently reading Learning Python!!!
<jcater> cool
<jcater> good book
<btami> http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl/ 
<btami> filc: read diveintopython.org too
<btami> jcater: i'v read a tutorial in http://www.antennahouse.com
<jcater> have you used FO much?
<btami> no, i'm just learning
<btami> i'm learning python, xml, linux, oop :)
<btami> i'm just a matematik, not a real programmer :)
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> best I can tell, FO specifies physical formatting properties (much like an XML version of PCL or Postscript) such as fonts, margins, font sizes, colors, etc
<jcater> as opposed to a functional markup (like docbook, latex, etc)
<jcater> is that fair?
<jcater> (that's from me reading 5 minutes)
<btami> yes, i know this
<jcater> ok
<jcater> just making sure I'm understanding FO correctly
<btami> yes, it is for "cosmetics" formatting
<btami> but reports needs this too
<btami> and <reporthead>, <grouphead> ... too
<btami> i think the decision is missing about this tags
<btami> i want to write another report wizard, but with this tags
<jcater> so are you thinking we take the FO elements that we need and add them to our spec
<jcater> or just use all of FO as it sits?
<jcater> i.e., "borrow" their ideas
<jcater> or use exactly their speciifcation?
<btami> i don't know, maybe it's too complex for a business report
<jcater> I'm torn
<jcater> of course
<jcater> the GNUe Reports engine could output FO markups right now
<jcater> currently, we have the SimpleTabulation style
<jcater> we could easily add a FormattingObjects style
<jcater> that is nothing but XSL-FO
<jcater> so the out: tags would actually be
<jcater> FO tags
<btami> i can't imagine how designer will work with complexity of FO...
<jcater> nor can I 
<jcater> of course, I can't imagine how designer's going to handle any reports yet :)
<btami> :) :)
<derek> did the papo patches get applied?
<btami> maybe derek can :)
<btami> hi derek
<derek> hi btami
<btami> derek: what is your opinion about these reports issues?
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<jcater> btami: one thing about using FO
<jcater> if we go that route
<jcater> I'd want us to commit resources to doing a free python-based implementation
<jcater> I have issues with depending on a java program
<derek> i wont depend on FO from java (end of story)
<derek> i will write my own python FO 
<derek> or i will use reportlabs or such and go straight from xml to native pdf or such
<derek> sorry im just picky, i wont use java :)
<btami> if we go xml -> whatever, we need some formatting tags again
<btami> and this decision is missing
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<derek> btami: i thought we had some
<derek> as i had to have that to make the HTML reports
<derek>    <out:report>
<derek>     <out:reportTitle>Monthly Accounting Foobulation Report</out:reportTitle>
<derek>     <out:section break="page">
<derek>       <out:sectionTitle><param name="subtitle"/></out:sectionTitle>
<derek>       <out:table width="100%">
<derek>         <out:tablehead>
<derek>           <out:colhead width="30">Name</out:colhead>
<derek>           <out:colhead width="22" align="center">Date</out:colhead>
<derek>           <out:colhead width="10" align="right">Foobs</out:colhead>
<derek>         </out:tablehead>
<derek>         <section source="dtsFoo" name="nameBreak">
<derek>            <section name="details">
<derek>              <out:row>
<derek>                 <firstrow><out:col><field name="name" section="nameBreak"/></out:col></firstrow>
<derek>                 <notfirstrow><out:col/></notfirstrow>
<derek>                 <out:col align="center"><field name="foodate"/></out:col>
<derek>                 <out:col align="right"><field name="foobs"/></out:col>
<derek>             </out:row>
<derek>           </section>
<derek> looks liek you have things like
<derek> report
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<derek> reportTitle
<derek> section
<derek> table
<derek> tablehead
<derek> colhead
<derek> row
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<derek> speak of the devil
<derek> er the toyman
<btami> yes, we have some, but these far from complete for GNUe:Reports:Standard
<btami> jcater wrote this before:
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<btami>    5. This leaves the door open for the Reports Engine to "proxy"     output formatting logic. In other words, this would allow, if     we ever so desired, to write a PDF (or HTML or TeX) formatting     engine (instead of an external XSLT script) for reports of type     GNUe:Reports:Standard that the engine could load.  Instead of     physically creating an XML output stream, it creates a stream     of events to this engine, which would und
<btami> but this needs "standardize" these tags
<btami> the original monthly.grd was good enough for a sample, but wasn't declared as a gnue standard
<btami> as forms has "standard" tags
<btami> sorry for my poor english :)
<btami> i'm just making a bit pressure to make reports better :)
<derek> your english is better than jamest :)
<chillywilly> :-/
<btami> :)
<chillywilly> man we got a full house today
<chillywilly> what the heck
<chillywilly> this python program is b0rked
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<chillywilly> hi reinhard
<btami> hi chillywilly, hi reinhard
<reinhard> hi all
<chillywilly> howdy
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<filc> that's all my pesos spent on gnue!!!
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<derek> hi LuftHans
<derek> brb 
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<dneighbo> guess we will see how long it lasts
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<chillywilly> hey dewd
<chillywilly> are you being interviewed in 2 days?
<chillywilly> in wopn
<chillywilly> s/in/on/
<Mr_You> hi
<chillywilly> howdy
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<chillywilly> hi
<chillywilly> how goes it jc?
<chillywilly> crap shadow conflict is right on our tail
<chillywilly> on linuxfund
<chillywilly> less than 1500 away
<chillywilly> all he needs is someone to drop all their pesos on him
<ajmitch> silly person
<ajmitch> then again, the rankings might just be an indicator for the board
<ajmitch> a few projects get $$, i think
<chillywilly> ok
<chillywilly> diablo-d3 is smething else ;)
<chillywilly> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> diablo-d3 is an arrogant fool :)
<chillywilly> whatcha been up to ajmitch?
<ajmitch> stuff
<chillywilly> how descriptive
<chillywilly> *stuff*
<ajmitch> yup
<chillywilly> bah
--- Sun Sep  8 2002