heh: http://www.idg.co.nz/ <-- see top story cool SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) joined #gnuenterprise. i noticed in a side article that ballmer came to .au but wouldnt stop by .nz SachaS_2 (~Sacha@ark.cs.curtin.edu.au) joined #gnuenterprise. double the sacha test successful :) (ssh is great for tunnelling!) i am on a .9 subnet in my uni. i only can connect via ssh to the school gateway ajmitch: you ever use sword? er gnomesword? with ssh -l schlegel -L 2526:irc.openprojects.net:6667 gateway i create a tunnel for irc over ssh! use jcater's tool ;) so i can use irc on my private laptop and you can tunnel any port easily anyport! a friend showed me yesterday! i could not believe it! seriously jcater made a KILLER script for this thing amazing. lol you run it and it asks you questions ok have to ask jcater later and voila it makes a custom script for you to do tunnels we use it for gnue as we regularly use postgres on a remote server run gnue client locally tunneling 5432 to a remote server and so its like you are running on local net :) yep. not only tunneled over ssh (port 22) but also encrypted. extremely fast as only queries and results go accross wire we will likely add it directly into the framework er navigator/forms might be a nightmare for admins though :) they do not know what the heck is going on. foof an admin with a clue actually i do not know if they can check what you tunnel. now thats a though ;) s/though/thought btw it need not be port 22 either :) i regularly ssh tunnel on port 23 (as many firewalls close 22 but not 23 or 21) ok. derek - jcater's tool\script? where can i get that? ok back to work. thanks derek. SachaS_2 (~Sacha@ark.cs.curtin.edu.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). um it MIGHT be in our cvs okay... what's it called? http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/make-ssh-tunnel thanks! derek: no i haven't used gnomesword much it needs a new debian maintainer ah its been broken long time and i submit bugs but no one responds i REALLY need it ok :) its hard to write sermons with out good digital reference material :( i suppose i will just need to go back to compiling it http://www.electric-chicken.co.uk/ but if i do that i figured it would nice to update the package i use bibletime compiled from source Action: ajmitch is sorta glad that ballmer is not visiting NZ :) i see that gnomesword does has a maintainer Action: ajmitch also gets the segfault i suppose i could try to up to woody and see if problem still exists i filed bug a few days ago no response though bug has existed for at least a month yep the author/maintainer is probably quite busy, i remember spaeking to him about it on irc a few months back ah Action: derek is thinking i might grab the source and try to use gnome to figure out deb packaging Action: derek is back (gone 14:23:50) Action: ajmitch sets about rebuilding package ajmitch is my hero i was going to build all the modules as packages did you ever know that you're my hero? as they have to be cake i.e. they just zip files so to speak and all similar just slightly different names currently they only have like 3 in sid i would like them all there :) heh but remember, i can't promise that a package built on my sid box will work for you nickr: made any decisions on gnue packaging? ajmitch: yes ajmitch: a) distutils sucks ass ajmitch: b) distutils makes debian packaging very difficult hmm i wonder if one pays extra for a good ass sucking or not? hah hehe so who's the willing victim that wants to sacrifice themselves & make debian packages for the next release? is it expected to be me? hell yea it is psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: i did not ask you hi psu ajmitch: too bad hey btw, patches to the KC back issues are on the site nothing dramatic how so? a) fixed some broken hrefs b) Stopped calling "Common" "GNU-RPC" in the topic categories c) Made btami fully unicode compliant rofl psu there should be mail in your box from FSF on issues yep -just got it not read it yet btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning hi btami derek: want the bad news or the worse news? oh crud I've stayed up too late go sleep then hi reinhard, btami btami: if you ego-scan the Kernel Cousins back issues (i.e. look for your own name), you might notice a subtle change ;-) psu: when will names be linked to a list of topics that they're quoted in? :) ooh, that's a new one I guess the short answer is as soon as an XSLT masta submits a patch for it ;) no, it's the old behaviour IIRC, KC GNUe is the only KC that uses topics extensively i see paq (~paq@202.155.120.221) left #gnuenterprise. The old perl scripts had a "who spoke to who" set of pages based on a mySQL database I'm guessing that Zack couldn't find an easy way to replicate when we moved to XSLT ok and dropped it assuming no-one was using it not knowing about dneighbo's secret life-goal to get more citations than Linus (actually, I believe Alan Cox is the most-quoted in Kernel Traffic) rofl give me worse news then bad news well originally i thought it was still broken but it seems to work and is updated to 0.7.3 as an extra bonus derek: add 'deb http://ajmitch.dhis.org/debs ./' to /etc/apt/sources.list, apt-get update, apt-get install gnomesword siesel (jan@dial-213-168-88-111.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. morning hey siesel what's up? jan night fellas chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" spu: thanks ajmitch: you ROCK please send that patch to the maintainer there if you get bored feel free to package unpackaged texts, commentaries, etc ;) hehe it's hardly tested but it seems to work tell me if it segfaults i suspect if it runs any segfaults will not be packaging but actual package itself Action: derek runs to bed as im not being productive enough anylonger tonight night Action: derek is away: sleep Anyone know off topof their head what license Zope is? ZPL 2.0 The ZPL 2.0 is essentially a X11/BSD-new-style license, with an additional paragraph (4), which doesn't install any additional non-free restrictions. non-copyleft, so basic rule of thumb is same as with Apache i.e. use the s/w, don;t use the license yourself yes :) cool anyway, work time bye psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("going to work == sorta like going to lectures, but even less fun (translation for any students here)"). ajmitch: will the gadfly dbdriver creates new databases if there are no databases defined? no it's also not functional with forms ;) i have to work on it :( Grantbow (~grantbow@12-233-20-180.client.attbi.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi I thought of adding a subpoint to the samples Makefile, which automaticly creates a gadfly database, which could be used for the samples that'd be cool but it seems that gadfly don't support date/time types :( hi ajmitch. I was just poking around the CVS and wondering how much of this stuff is production ready as of today. forms & designer are reports might be appserver: ask siesel if I have to ask, it's not production ready yet. ;-) That's cool. siesel: how close is it? :) when I say production I mean I can deploy this in someone else's business and be confident it will run correctly. i know it's fine being able to use it in your own, since you can fix bugs if they appear but for production use you need to trust it :) hmmm, its usable already, but there still features missing ( internal table/object directory, transaction support in appserver itself) and it has to be made much more stable :) Hmm, even forms and designer call themselves 0.3.0 in their NEWS files. yes what did you expect? not much more really, just poking around like I said. not even phpgw is 1.0 ;) lol a model of project efficiency? yes, one of harmony & cooperation I'm just watching the political discussion on their channel now. hehe i can't be bothered with it I dind't say I was reading it all, just watching it go by. heh. and i gotta run, i'll talk to you people later :) ttyl siesel: tell/email the requirements for the gadfly driver & i'll look at it Action: ajmitch out siesel (jan@dial-213-168-88-111.netcologne.de) left irc: "later" btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Remote closed the connection rossg_ (~rossg@ip-195-149-26-1.nildram.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ajmitch back :) ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) rossg_ (~rossg@ip-195-149-26-1.nildram.co.uk) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-187.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) siesel (jan@dial-195-14-254-187.netcologne.de) left irc: Client Quit bye for now SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" lupo_ (~lupo@pD9505438.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. huhu! lupo_ (~lupo@pD9505438.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Client Quit reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@dial-213-168-91-96.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard: seems that we missed lupo :( hi siesel and reinhard hi ajmitch, I changed the gadfly dbdriver a bit. ok did it ever worked for yoU? what gadfly release are you using? it partly worked :) i could play with designer & build a form - but it didn;t like me running the form the one in debian/testing ok, i used a newer gadfly since the one in debian/testing is orphaned did it support LIKE? it is sad & lonely & the code has been picked up by someone else see gadfly.sf.net i.e. not. i know not Action: ajmitch updates the gadlfy driver from cvs & repackages it (badly) gadfly (1.0.0-1) -- Matej Vela Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:07:45 +0200 sorry I mean debian/unstable hmm ok someone adopted it, yay :) seems that cvs hasn't changed a lot since the 1.0 release, the only files I found changes are documentation yep paq (~paq@202.155.120.221) joined #gnuenterprise. g'night siesel :) night ajmitch ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello Hi Arturas Hi Jan :) SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-233.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (yrashk@cc6.kh-online.kharkov.org) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" Hi Yurik Arturas: hi siesel (jan@dial-213-168-91-96.netcologne.de) left irc: "l8r" someone knows what 'hack for db encoding' in gnue.conf should do? figured out :) -- if you want a good laugh start google and search for go.to.hell and look what comes first :) -- cool they must have funny meta data. jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning James :) monring siesel (~jan@dial-213-168-88-167.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (~jan@dial-213-168-88-167.netcologne.de) left irc: "What's a script?" jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yogurt2unge (~charlie@ADSL-200-59-86-69.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) dneighbo (www-data@65.101.4.212) joined #gnuenterprise. dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise. bye :) Arturas (arturas@bit.codeworks.lt) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. yogurt2unge (~charlie@ADSL-200-59-86-69.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "Client Exiting" dneighbo (www-data@65.101.4.212) left #gnuenterprise. dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. filc (~filc@public1-cosh3-3-cust111.cosh.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater: were you able to get anywhere yesterday on the windows install, i saw (or at least i thought i saw) that you were having to redo inno or such because of python 2.2 Action: dneighbo has no idea how big (or little) of a task this may or may not be stbain (~stbain@66.207.65.76) joined #gnuenterprise. re reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. dneighbo: it's not too small of a task but I almost have it real work just keeps getting int he way Action: Mr_You has to find the best algorithm for x coordinates.. y should be easy. no problem just curious not meaning to be pesky dneighbo: maybe you should be pesky neat.. www.bbsmates.com pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection sweeet!! my old BBS is in ther haha database must be gettin a pound pounding /.d? its not responding for me yeah its very slow, gotta be very patient. using ASP eeww yuck.. has me as running Telegard.. I switched to FrontDoor and RemoteAccess hmm I think the years are wrong too, but I can't recall.. maybe 88-92 or somethin stbain (~stbain@66.207.65.76) left irc: "Client Exiting" siesel (~chatzilla@dial-195-14-250-159.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi hi filc Action: Mr_You is not really a programmer, so I apologize for my "cryptic" language ;-) ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-244-215.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel___ (~chatzilla@dial-195-14-226-220.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-69.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi psu hi ryone hi StyXman siesel (~chatzilla@dial-195-14-250-159.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Yurik (yrashk@cc6.kh-online.kharkov.org) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jcater: siesel____ (~chatzilla@dial-213-168-73-37.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel___ (~chatzilla@dial-195-14-226-220.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jcater: in re: enabling and disabling widgets from triggers, don't you think that some 'bridge' is necessary from the GFthing to the UIthing and even to the widget? events we are event-driven so, the widget (or the UIthing) should 'listen' for a 'disable' event? Action: filc is listening Action: StyXman is launching events yes err we well we usually use a proxy event the UIdriver would probably listen for the event ...and should 'demultiplex' the event to the right widget? um sure so, the UIdriver should have conection to the real widgets, or it should handle the event to the UIthing? Action: StyXman votes for the UIthing reinhard (~rm@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "'Hardware' defines as the parts of a computer system that can be kicked" Action: filc must go to football... Nick change: filc -> filc_football Action: Mr_You must go to paint. Action: Mr_You & heh Nick change: siesel____ -> siesel siesel (~chatzilla@dial-213-168-73-37.netcologne.de) left irc: "later" roflmao hey guys go to google.com and do a query on "go to hell" (in quotes) usually we are top for weird queries like that... chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. how far down the rankings are we now for "goatsex"? :)) that just cracks me up chillywilly would appreciate that what? go to google.com and do a query on "go to hell" Action: chillywilly tries Action: chillywilly doesn't get it ToyMan (~stuq@smtp.dstoys.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" chillywilly: did you enclose the words in quotes no my bad M$?!? ;) hehe Action: ariel_ is away: 'zzzz..." psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. jcater: ain't events a little overkill for enabling/disabling widgets? or is it the way to make GF things talk to UI things? the latter and I don't think it's overkill as you just communicate with the GF* widgets to enable/disable them but at the same time if the underlying UI wants to grey them out it could also listen for the event it's what events are made for! :) well, let's back up a minute the trigger will be at the GFEntry level i.e., it would be GFEntry.enable() how were you doing it? ah! the GFEntry would be "creating" the event and if anything wanted to listen in it could (such as the graying out) Action: jcater forgot the context we were talking in I didin't anything. I was just pondering the ways to do it... so, the enable method of the GFEntry will raise the event and the listening UI thing will response to that graying the widget. ya so, UI things should be able to talk to its widget. afaik, the only way to reach a widget is to traverse the tree starting from the _form of a UIForm object. or I'm wrong? uh reach it's widget? why would it need to reach it's widget? the UI* widget or the GF* widget? I see no need for the UI* widget to get to the GF* widget as when it gets the enable event erm uh, in this case the wx widget... it's the only who knows how to *actually* gray out the widget... dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)" buttons should be enableable/disableable too... and how do I use dcl? dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: filc_football -> filc grrr I was thinking... Is there a proposed method yet for "zooms". i.e. when adding a purchase order being able to "zoom" from the supplier field on the purchase order to a form containing a list of suppliers? a hale storm is on its way ad my top won't go up on the convertible :( s/ad/and sucks Action: jcater thinks I may have a headache when I get home :( filc: somewhat man mutt is slow with imap Action: filc is not sure how "zooms" going to interact with nstti. jcater: can you explain? filc: I don't think that'll be anything special wrt nstti I wouldn't worry about it at this point Action: filc thinks it's quite a major issue for a usable forms I don't think it has anything to do with nstti, though jcater: you left me with the question in the mouth... I did? last thing you said was 'erm' then 'grr' grrr was wrt my convertible and the hail storm ok, we were talking about to reach the widgets. I was saying that I was refering to the wx widgets/. because, and I cite: it's the only who knows how to *actually* gray out the widget... right and the UIdriver will listen for an event then contact the widgets but there's no other weay to reach wx things but by traversing the widget tree .... wait a sec. s/weay/way/ no, I was right, contaier is passed as parent, and container is the widget that contains it, so the way to reach a wx widget is to traverse the tree starting from _form. morning all ... from _form of GFUserInterface and I lost you again. ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl2-37.citlink.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection ajmitch: morning? it's evening here :) Nick change: StyXman -> squashed_StyXman hehe jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" squashed_StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-69.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?" jamest (~jamest@hobbes.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" Nick change: filc -> filc_sleep dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)" ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi anyone know a way to run remote X programs (like ssh -X) that works with a middle machine i.e., I need to ssh to one machine to get to the one I need possibly with ssh tunnel & some crap script? i've had the same thing but never bothered to get it working :) Action: jcater has always wondered why multiple ssh -X's never work :( jcater: that'd be nice but i can't imagine now you might run the remote X11 app on a VNC server there on that 2nd hop host, and then tunnel in to it. to its display via tightvnc.com which is encrypted :/ or ssh tunnel to the host where you run ssh -X since that host may listen on 127.0.0.1:6010 or perhaps not SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-233.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) you can run remote X without ssh yea, but that's not too wise depends no, I can't run remote X without ssh :) hehe :) Action: chillywilly curses courier imapd *&6876*&^ !@#$%^& I'm sorry you have to use remote X period. with or without ssh personally I don't see a problem with temporarily running remote X apps without ssh office space is a funny movie jcater: seems in your case you would need some port forwarding or vnc app. why do you need the traffic encrypted? Mr_You: it's called "security" ddttmm: for what? for the OS, files, user identity, and everything else that people secure. that's a big fat gigantic "duh" :) and why would that info be going over a X session? dewd, think. it doesn't have to _go_ over the X session; people can just hijack the X session. not really or do whatever else. break into the server which is providing the X session. yes, really. nope not if yer smart well, ok, go ahead and argue with the nature of reality :) you mean the likelyhood of a reality which isn't very much X is defintely known for being vunerablke over a network the X server is running on the local machine no? should be easy enough to "lock down" anyways.. any service you are running is vunerable specially if its temporary. potentially vunerable you mean well yea one thing to be slightly paranoid, another to be schizo, another to take a temporary low risk. I don't think not wanting to run X over the internet is being paranoid, imho of course ;) its no different than any other traffic over the net. without encryption mr_you is arguing against basic security on principle, which is exactly as easy to actually do securely. Mr_You: you're not really making any sense whatsoever :) what don't you understand? let me clear it up for you. one thing to be slightly paranoid, another to be schizo, another to take a temporary low risk. <-- that's true but doesn't apply to this situation. that's not a low risk. no I'm not arguing against securitye. i misunderstand nothing. umm not in this situation anyhow. so clarification is unnecesasry :) umm i understand what you're saying but common sense simply differs there is no point whatsoever to do it insecurely, not even for practical reasons. and it is not a low risk to do insecurely. umm it's usually a lot more practical to do it securely, especialy coz it's built into ssh. and never any less practical. it's certainly also more flexible to do it securely, since you also get sessionless VNC my point being....... is it neccessary? it's no more necessary than wearing a seat belt or not drinking scalding liquid. encrypting data just for the purpose of encryption even tho the data has low risk... its inefficent see the weight of your scale of inefficiency is pointless and without merit. here is where we disagree.. you just described two different risks I'm not arguing against encrypting X sessions.. I'm arguing whether the traffic being ecrypted is worth encryption.. thats my only point it's just as easy to establish it securely as not. once established, the security is imperceptible to the user. efficiency is irrelevant. wrong, it takes time and resources to implement security. it's not aboput the traffic. as always, your argument against worry about security is based on a baseless quantification of the loss. there's a lot more at risk than just the datastream. there's the rest of the OS, the user's identity, and more. not everyone uses SSL do they? haha ;-) anything even tangientially related it's just as easy to establish it securely as not not always it doesn't take extra time and security , especially in this case. configuring xauth or xhost is the same as configuring VNC and you should use VNC anyway for purely practical purposes. end of story. so, take care, buh bye then :) go ahead and argue with the highway patrol about seat belts. just as sensible and productive. ok, take 15 minutes to implement security for a connection that last 5 minutes.. makes sense to me ... uggh Action: Mr_You is not big on wasting time and resources for extremely low risk temporary situations. bicker, bicker, bicker I think my point is a valid one. grumble, grumble, grumble 15min? there was no time specified ;0 ajmitch: how secure you want it? ;-) but anyway I could care less chillywilly: yes there was :) Action: chillywilly scrolls back depends on if you have all the software you need, etc, etc.. some people are encryption hungry IMO Mr_You: again you're basing it on limited criteria such as that all potential attackers will only do so in realtime. which is silly of course they're going to store the session data. in jcaters case, if possible, I would VPN to the remote machine to establish me locally on the networ Mr_You: now that right there is an example of what you're talking about. swatting a fly with a sledgehammer in terms of security. ddttmm: umm.. isn't that the point of attempting to hack a temporary situation? man are y'all still talking about mine? see what you started? VPNs are pretty simple. geeze agreed ssh tunnel is VPN heh essentially Mr_You: it may or may be about a temporary situation. thats the point of my previous sentence. Mr_You is right, I need a vpn Mr_You: you have no idea what you're talking about then :) I've just had horrid luck ssh tunnel is *not* a VPN at *all* and *no* VPN is simple. ddttmm: don't take that statement literal ddttmm: I'm glad I'm not the only one :) of course its not a VPN Mr_You: it's nothing like a VPN! :) Action: ajmitch should get onto his boss' VPN ddttmm: VPN and ssh tunnel encrypt traffic.. so they are similar in that sense.. woah, corier imap kicks uw-imap's a$$ courier VPNs can be very simple, whats not simple? not necessarily you can do ppp over telnet :) ddttmm: if a remote X session is not temporary, you've got bigger issues ;-) Action: chillywilly does not see a point to arging about this Action: Mr_You thought remote internet X sessions were obviously temporary. me either, we're arguing two differnt points Mr_You: No. not only should it be considered as temporary or not if you want it to be, but like i said, they can record the session. no we're not. Action: chillywilly throws a bucket of water on ddttmm and Mr_You the problem is that Mr_You doesn't really *have* a point :) yay water THX ^_^ umm.. ok mr. disrespect fwiw well i'm just being literal! ILOVE YOU MISTER U oh boy each machine is behind a separate firewall so I can only ssh into one then ssh to the machine i need meeeeesssssster yeeeeew so, quite literally Mr_You: SORRY :/ I must do ssh :) ok Action: jcater desparately needs a vpn setup but I've had bad luck pptpd ;) VPNs are good. bring down one of the walls ;) tear it down!?!?! wooooosh!!! hmm.. wonder if you can connect to a VPN WITHIN a VPN ;-) woah ouch why not? a tunnel within a tunnel within a tunnel jst slap more ip header on and ride the lightening jcater: maybe that would work, but makes my head hurt ;-) :D chillywilly: how much have you had? nadda it's called ECM Email Configuration Madness :-D I'm not a big fan of overgrown mail servers like qmail, etc. jcater: what i do in that situation. then i log into the remote internal host and start up the X client inside a VNC server. then i start up a VNC client on the remote gateway, which goes to the display on the remote internal host, and whose own X11 display is ssh-forwarded to your local internal host. Action: chillywilly is useing exim with courier imap jcater: does that make sense? i have done that a lot :) bigger fan of K.I.S.S. ddttmm: ya storing mail in maildir format Action: jcater is a BIG fan of Postfix jcater: that's the poor man's situation but totally ssh it keeps me sane exim is pretty nice gnu.org uses exim, shouldn't you? ;) j/k Action: Mr_You hugs FreeBSD. blah BSD is the "devil" ;) heehe debian _used_ to use qmail on it's servers BSD license you mean, I'm guessing. rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-4-64-096-108.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) joined #gnuenterprise. rdean (rdean@chcgil2-ar2-4-64-096-108.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) left irc: Client Quit I loved some article someone published about unix being evil and from satan cause of its use of daemons. heh then someone pointed out FreeBSD to him and having to 'kill' tasks I was referring to the FreeBSD daemon and 'chmod 666' ahh but whatever floats your boat Mr_You ajmitch: yup.. after he came out with the article, more people offered him more fuel. you and ddttmm are batting 1000 :) chillywilly: whatever gets the job done I say ;-) FreeBSD has jail(8), no one else does. whooodeeedoooo and what's so great about jail? ;) we are for freedom ;) hehe too much to list here heh anyway, I am not arguing about Free Software philosophy tonight :) give me the basics... or any other night for that matter essentially a glorified chroot.. allows you to lock down apps/servers to a specific IP.. i see allows you to run a virtual private/dedicated server.. The jail command imprisons a process and all future descendants. Action: ajmitch ponders setting up a neighbourhurd on his GNU box & getting the same stuff, yet more :) for fun I assume ;-) not production ;-) why not for production? :) ouch Action: ajmitch recalls that it's in GNU/Linux at the moment doing burn-in tests to test hardware SachaS (~sacha@online.havanawave.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl2-37.citlink.net) left irc: "making toys" jcater: wow i butchered that sentence up there. i was in mid-edit when i sent it :) Mr_You: there are lots of kernel patches for Linux to do far beyond the equivalent of jail() fyi like in-kernel ACLs for processes and users and files and everything ddttmm: and which one of these should I risk a business on? ;-) SELinux :) actually some that go far beyond jail is beyond what I need, also. he justs needs server "virtualization" right Mr_You? pretty much I don't need to "break up" ram across VPSs, etc.. imap is so weird I've found way to restrict processes and process memory, etc.. within the jail.. instead of hard limits per jail, thus inefficient use of RAM and CPU. compared to UMLinux. ok just admit it you're a FreeBSD freak ;) I love it, but I use what does the job best. Action: Mr_You is definitely a FreeBSD freak. now all I need is hardcore fs and shared memory clustering builtin to FreeBSD core and I'll be extremely happy heh SSIC-Linux is coming along though. jcater: you still here? Action: derek didnt read all the back log but likely has a solution to your problem (re remote X) derek: here did you get a solution already (still havent made it to the log) erm possibly (haven't tested it) so, what's your solution? vnc the way toyman has it setup for me that was the "kind of" solution I've already got Action: jcater was hoping you had something better :) is i vnc to a gateway box that automatically forwards the request through to the box i really want i think its great basically ssh/vnc to an openbsd box to attach to a microsoft box behind firewall (seemed trick to me) and works well I guess I'll have to do that man I'm sooo sick of shelved s/shelved/shelves ? ah over 1200 ft of wood hey you know somewhere i can get used books? Action: derek runs wife says we need shelves in garage, you interested in a visit? all has to be cut up, sanded, grooved, glued, primed, stained, and sealed if I never build another shelf in my life, it'll be too soon gack wtf ajmitch? [19:35:26] You are being CTCP flooded from ajmitch, ignoring *!*@wlg1-port28.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz wtf chillywilly? yeah that was me being a 1337 h4x0r & trying to h4x j00 oh man... Action: chillywilly curls into the fetal position in a catatonic state I'll be able to allow VPNs to VPSs once jail can allocate more than one IP (5.0 maybe) ;-) Mr_You: go straight t jail, do not pass go heh hmm could probably do a port forwarding hack, but... no. my imap server forces me to have eveything nder INBOX I'm not used to that damnit ;) picky picky picky ;-) derek: so someone makes a VNC proxy? um you would have to speak to toymans admin to get the specifics i suspect its just portmaping tricks on the gateway's end ok.. sounds interesting.. yuck if it gets hacked tho ;-))) yeah better watch out for ajmitch with his m4d k0d1ng h4x0rz ski11z :) FJ33R M3! 4jm17ch b4ckd00r w000t! so long as you has a password of 'password' or a system that lets me past all security with 'override' Action: jcater doesn't really want to think about ajmitch's backdoor Action: ajmitch vomits it uses VNC very nice & clean eeww can we talk about something else? pleeease? so, how 'bout them Jets? jets? err, nevermind american team :) ah, they suck then :) wow I was just commenting how I wanted to ride and play basketball in the militaries new "secret" aircraft.. nicknamed Big Black Deltas he's halfway around the world and even knows that who's going to win the america's cup? :) ajmitch: I am I just haven't figured out how yet you got a boat in? no could be quite hard then but lord knows I could build an ark with all the wood I have here rofl don't quite think the regulations allow it ooh, interesting mail about pthreads on glibc-devel hurd-devel Action: derek goes to eat Action: chillywilly is uploading mail to the IMAP server ;P yay for chillywilly! Action: ajmitch is not being sarcastic, really this server really is a lot nicer that uw-imapd cos uw-imapd sucks you can't change where it stores mail without recompiling :) bbl derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" well it als sucks because it is a big fat pig and scks a LOT of resources my little server couldn't take it let alone mutt which doesn't cache anything ouch but courier imap works great hmm odd got disconnected from a couple of other irc servers but not this one Action: Mr_You procastinates. this is a pain hmmm chillywilly did you try courier-imapd ? yes, sing it right now using it's nice much better than UW i use qmail as mail server and courier-imapd as imap deamon (obviously :) use even courier-popd as pop3 deamon qmail is non-free ;) and djb is a jerk ;) i dont hack the code though. but yes you are right SachaS: how do you authenticate? I am using pam but I'd like to make it so as not to use my system password then change pam settings :) yea, just more frelling docs to read ;) yeah, STFU & RTFM ;) don't make me hurt you you couldn't yea, this is going to get somewhere poor chilly poor appserver heh aren't you the only user on the box? ;-) nope I am actually converting my email to maildir why? cause I am going to leave it there for the hell of it I just wondered why you were going through all this trouble for one user. but nm me. because chillywilly has nought better to do :) well... Action: Mr_You isn't coding ATM either. heh ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-244-215.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client" Action: Mr_You & dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ajmitch thinks that chillywilly should authenticate against LDAP :) Nick change: dneighbo -> derek hail! oh great & powerful derek! hola Action: derek has been fixing bugs to php code for a client grrr fun! (not) i hate web applications, just in case i have never said that before Action: ajmitch prefers to code webstuff in python :) chillywilly: I use the dbfile authentication. so my users DO NOT need an account on the server #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. --- Fri Sep 20 2002