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<btami> good morning
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<btami> hi psu
<psu> hi btami
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<psu> quick, look busy, it's the boss 
<psu> (until derek wakes, anyway) ;-)
<dneighbo> i heard that
<btami> :)
<dneighbo> but im on my way to bed, so someone else needs to play boss for a while
Action: psu notes we are remarkably close to the motorway service area's concept of "duty manager"
<psu> on this channel
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> i think here we call them shift managers
Action: dneighbo is jealous as usually the night shift manager gets paid extra wages
<psu> ajmitch gets to play the spotty youth just out of college who does the 2 am to 7 am shift
Action: dneighbo wonders how that 3% more looks when applied to current wage of 0.
<psu> & has to explain to irate truckers why their fried eggs & bacon are off this a.m.
<dneighbo> ;)
Action: dneighbo is away: nighty night
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<siesel> morning
<Yurik> morning
<reinhard> good morning siesel
<reinhard> and all
<reinhard> siesel and JohannesV: i have talked to lupo yesterday
<reinhard> about frankfurt
<siesel> what does he thinks?
<reinhard> we would prefer oct 31 for the meeting
<reinhard> he is studying and can appear oct 31 about 12:30 or so
<reinhard> we could start in the morning
<siesel> what about the thing developer/public meeting?
<reinhard> he will try to organize a room where we can meet
<siesel> cool
<dtm> hi guys.
<siesel> hi dtm
<sacha> too bad I am in Australia :)
<reinhard> sacha: yes
<reinhard> about developer/public
<reinhard> i don't think we should exclude anybody from the meeting
<reinhard> but we have to take care that it remains prductive
<siesel> yes, thats important
<siesel> I hope that the room, lupo will organize, has network access :)
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<reinhard> i already told lupo
<reinhard> i hope it won't be a "hacking session"
<reinhard> but more a "talking about concepts and design session"
<reinhard> i would even say a flipchart could be more important than network access :)
Action: siesel thought it would be both :)
<siesel> yes, you're right. 
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<sacha_> bye
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<ajmitch> hi all
<paq> hiya
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<ajmitch> hi
<siesel> hi ajmitch
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<reinhard> hello desperate
<desperate> hi
Action: reinhard has read .... .ac.at
Action: reinhard is .at, too :)
Action: desperate studies at technical U of vienna (computer sience)
Nick change: desperate -> smiling_guy
<smiling_guy> phew :-) wasn't that hard to install dcl ...
<smiling_guy> cool :-) it works!
Action: smiling_guy jumps up and down
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<siesel> hi James
<ajmitch> morning jamest
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<siesel> morning Jason
<ajmitch> hi yogurt2unge, jcater
<yogurt2unge> hi ajmitch
<jcater> morning all
<smiling_guy> i guess problems with the debs should be reported to debians bts?
<reinhard> i guess yes
<ajmitch> smiling_guy: the debs are antique, worthless :)
<reinhard> ajmitch: i think smiling_guy is talking about dcl debs
<ajmitch> oh
<smiling_guy> yes
Action: ajmitch hangs head in shame ;)
<smiling_guy> I'm running unstable and just installed dcl
<ajmitch> what is problem with dcl?
<smiling_guy> the INSTALL.txt has missed to explain, that a user for postgresql needs to be created ...
Action: ajmitch is running dcl on sid using jbailey's packages
<ajmitch> ah ok
<smiling_guy> after i found that out, it was quite easy
<smiling_guy> i guess, i'll just file a bug in the bts for that ...
<ajmitch> right
<siesel> if you send an email describing the bug to dcl-support@gnuenterprise.org, would be good too.
<smiling_guy> I'll do a X-debbugs-cc
<jcater> siesel: I notice you committing against the sqlite driver
<jcater> are you actually using that driver?
<smiling_guy> siesel: dcl-support@ sounds like the email gateway. does this work satisfactorily? 
Action: jcater crosses his fingers
<jcater> smiling_guy: oh, yeah... we use it extensively
Action: smiling_guy quotes: Optionally, responses [...] are appended [...] not yet implemented
<smiling_guy> :(
<siesel> I don't want to use it for anything important. But I hate it that all examples which needs database access don't work at once. 
<siesel> so I think of providing a database file, which is already populated, with the examples. So you just have to start the examples up and everything is working. 
<siesel> I tried to use gadfly, but gadfly don't support "LIKE" conditions, so ... :(
<jcater> gack
<jcater> that sucks
<ajmitch> yup
<siesel> I think that just windows users (especialy beginners) will need that prepopulated database.
<ajmitch> certainly
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<siesel> jcater: where should the description of the "configfile" dbadapter go? README.databases?
<jcater> well
<jcater> the configfile adapter is specific to modifying our configfile, no?
<jcater> if so, then I think a technote might make more sense
<siesel> specific to modify python configfiles
<jcater> as the README.databases is there to detail to the end user what choices he has
<jcater> for his databases
<jcater> I just wonder if the configfile would confuse him
<jcater> but, then again, I don't know
Action: siesel will add a technote first, and move it to README.databases/obscure, when there are more obscure drivers like that :)
<siesel> like the imap driver you planned to write ;)
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<dneighbo> german fellows, it would be great if you had internet access so that perhaps you could relay some of what was going on back to irc
<dneighbo> that or design decisions need to come back in form of email or document 
<reinhard> dneighbo: true
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<StyXman> siesel: you here?
<siesel> yep.
<StyXman> I don't have the example you told me yesterday.... paramtest.gfd or the like
<dneighbo> sigh
<dneighbo> the local LUG say that im worse than HTML email user
<dneighbo> because i digitally sign my email
<dneighbo> and outlook express munges my emails into an attachment because of this
<reinhard> lol
<siesel> that is in gnue/samples/testcases/triggers/showparameters.gfd
<reinhard> dneighbo: i sponsor a local linux event
<reinhard> that is organized by our local lug
<reinhard> i asked what format to send my logo for putting on the announcements
<reinhard> they told me please send in corel draw format
Action: dneighbo hangs head
<dneighbo> unfortunately i can relate to that ALL to well
<dneighbo> we posted some stuff for 'collaboration' in open office format
<dneighbo> and got lynched
<dneighbo> that we used some impossible CLOSED format
<dneighbo> that people could read
<dneighbo> and could we make it pdf instead
<dneighbo> or html
<StyXman> siesel: yes, it works, but not when using a <cparam> in <contidions>...
<siesel> thats strange 
<StyXman> siesel: yeap...
<StyXman> I get (can I paste?)
<siesel> ok
<StyXman> DB000:   File "/home/mdione/src/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFForm.py", line 211, in getParameter
<StyXman> DB000:     rv = child.default
<StyXman> DB000: AttributeError: GFParameter instance has no attribute 'default'
<StyXman> (that's just the last three lines...)
<siesel> you don't have provided a "default" attribute to the parameter?
<StyXman> nope, but I'm passing a value thru the command line...
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<StyXman> and getParameter works...
<StyXman> I put
<StyXman> <condition>
<StyXman> <eq>
<StyXman> <cfield name="id"/>
<StyXman> <cparam name="id"/>
<StyXman> </eq>
<StyXman> </codition>
<StyXman> that
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<StyXman> and there's a <parameter name="id"/>
<siesel> And you say it works, if you remove that cparam stuff.
<dneighbo> dude im going to die
<dneighbo> i just went in my daughters room
<dneighbo> and they had taken all my 'ruperts' (stuff ximian plushies)
<dneighbo> and they have these helixcode 'tshirts on'
<dneighbo> well they took the shirts off the monkeys and put them on their barbies (well ken to be specific)
<dneighbo> so they now have 'hacker' ken
Action: dneighbo has to find the digital camera
Action: dneighbo is back (gone 08:51:32)
<StyXman> siesel: yeap
<StyXman> even if the fnction called *is the same*
<StyXman> I mean, both cparam and getParameter call GFForm.getParameter
<siesel> hmmm, I can reproduce the error now.
<siesel> seems that the parameter is used before the form is finally setup.
<StyXman> ah...
<siesel> i.e. its loaded by the condition before GFInstance.setForm() is called.
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<Arturas> Hello :)
<siesel> Hi Arturas
<Arturas> Hello Jan
<siesel> \quit later
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<StyXman> also, when I run another form with runForm, I have problems
<StyXman> closing with the 'x' of the wm, when I close all the windows something is still there so the app does not finish
<StyXman> closing with the 'exit' button from the toolbar closes another window but the one I wanted to close
<StyXman> and also closing the last one gives me:
<StyXman> home/mdione/bin/gfcvs-release: line 16:  2343 Segmentation fault      /usr/bin/python2.1 /home/mdione/src/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py $*
<StyXman> )-:
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<StyXman> jcater: you copy?
<jcater> self.copy()
<jcater> AttributeError: self has no method "copy"
<jcater> StyXman: nope!
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<StyXman> jcater: I'll try to find where's the error: wx, wxpython or (I don't think so, as I read the code) gnue
<jcater> oh, the segfault
<jcater> ?
<jcater> that happens
Action: jcater thinks it's wxpython
<StyXman> jcater: more than that: that 'exit' closes the 'wrong' window.
<jcater> oh
<jcater> ya
<jcater> it needs work
<StyXman> thinking about it I suppose that wx has problems with multiple windows with multiple toolbars, all with the same 'actions'
<StyXman> mb is that: that as the same 'action' is defined for both windows...
<jcater> have you guys looked at navigator?
<jcater> as I still think you're using a hammer when you need a screwdriver
<StyXman> jcater: not much, just to realize that it doesn't fit very well to our idea of our app
<jcater> what part?
<StyXman> also, we're concerned that launching windows as a separate process (is still done that way?) would have some performance problems
<jcater> it's not done that way
<StyXman> jcater: uh, mb we missed it.
<StyXman> s/missed it/were wrong/
<StyXman> jcater: remember that we're learning gnue as we hit with it :(
<smiling_guy> who isn't ?
<ra3vat> jcater: last I tried navigator is segfaulting too, may be it's python2.2 problem ? :)
<ra3vat> the same way as StyXman has with forms
<StyXman> ra3vat: I'm usriong python 2.1
<StyXman> that
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<StyXman> jcater: the note I read in GFInstance, and I cite:
<StyXman> 'change self._form in here to a list'
<StyXman> has anything to do with this problem?
Action: StyXman is *lost*
<jcater> "this problem" is a big one
<jcater> in that forms isn't fully multi-form aware yet
<StyXman> is there anything I can help with, besides just plain 'stop asking questions!'?
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<StyXman> jcater: I realize that the events in one window are the same of the other one, and those are (handled?) by the same wxapp
<StyXman> I mean:
<StyXman> I build the first window
<StyXman> UIDriver.getWxApp builds the (only) wxapp
<StyXman> when init'ing the menu and toolbar, some eventNumbers (e.g., 100 for 'commit') are defined and ??? with that only wxapp
<StyXman> where ??? is something I hope to find soon
<StyXman> what does EVT_MENU do, anyways?
<StyXman> when building a new window, getWxApp returns the same wxapp
<StyXman> so when init'ing the new menu and toolbar, those eventnumbers are the same as before, so I don't know how well wx will behave
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<StyXman> I guess a solution is to register different eventnumbers in each form. is it possible to number the forms created?
<Arturas> bye
<StyXman> does GFClient.getNextSerialNumber help in any way?
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<StyXman> (bye)
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<jcater> StyXman: I can't look at it until after this release
<jcater> and I'm in the middle of real work at the moment
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<StyXman> jcater: ok. uh, I guess I fixed it a little, but I better send a mail.
<StyXman> c-u 'morrow
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<ra3vat> jcater: i have gnue.po gnue.mo for translations/ru, can they get into release? it should not brake anything to fear about
<jcater> ra3vat: sure
<ra3vat> if I ask Arturas tomorrow to check and commit, is it OK?
<jcater> yes
<ra3vat> ok
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<kemu> hey all I'm reading a post from someone who tells to join this channel
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<kemu> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/2001-June/003580.html
<kemu> he is talking about oracle + python
<kemu> and I'm looking for a module that I can use with my oracle db
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<Chipaca> hi all
<Chipaca> were you able to get psycopg for win32 in the end?
<Chipaca> if the answer is no, http://www.zope.org/Members/pvl/PsycopgWin32/
<Chipaca> if the answer is yes, ok
<Chipaca> if the answer is what are you talking about, ask derek :)
Action: Chipaca goes back to sleep
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<derek> yes we did
<derek> i havent tested the preleases (certainly you can ) ;)
<Chipaca> derek: not in windows
<derek> i did test locally building cvs before teh preleases and it worked in windows
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<Chipaca> derek: we can test preleases on linux boxes to our heart's content.
<Chipaca> derek: should we?
<derek> yes please
<Chipaca> ok
<Chipaca> I'll send an email to the guys, too
<Chipaca> I thought it was just windows testing you wanted
<Chipaca> derek: bugs via dcl?
<derek> yes please
Action: derek thinks that is getting repetitive
<derek> <Chipaca> should i send that 1000 million US dollars to your home address
<derek> <derek> yes please
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: chillywilly is away: food
<Chipaca> derek: I'll have afghanistan air ship it directly to your office
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<chillywilly> Chipaca: wtf does that mean?
<Chipaca> chillywilly: a lame joke
<Chipaca> i guess
<Chipaca> seeing as nobody laughed
<chillywilly> well I don't want to jump to conslusions but if that a joke about 9/11 then I don't find it too funny
<Chipaca> chillywilly: no problem
<Chipaca> chillywilly: actually I guess the one with a problem is you not me, so I can't go saying 'no problem' like that, so I apologize for that
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<lupo> hi
<Chipaca> hi lupo 
<lupo> just for psu's log files
<chillywilly> Chipaca: heh, whatever
<lupo> i have spoken to volker dormeyer, the FSFE booth master regarding a GNUe meeting at LinuxWorldExpo in Frankfurt
<derek> will georg be there?
<lupo> not sure
<lupo> i remember having heard something about a speech of him, but i'm not sure (it's very late here anyway and my brain is severely hindered from serious work)
<lupo> at least, volker promised to look for a room for a gnue devel meeting
<lupo> reinhard spoke to me and proposed a meeting where we can talk about concepts, so no hacking session - though it could be advantageous to have a laptop available
<lupo> and the most important
<lupo> meeting time is october 31st
<lupo> from 10.00 AM till the evening
<lupo> that's all
<lupo> bye then
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<ajmitch> ello
<siesel> hi ajmitch
<dneighbo> gack
<dneighbo> my children have learned how to reconfigure fluxbox
Action: dneighbo thinks whoever said 'linux' and/or 'debian' were too hard
<ajmitch> ooh dear
<dneighbo> cant think like a 7 year old
<ajmitch> next they'll be recompiling the kernel for you
<chillywilly> hah
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<dneighbo> the one that kicked me off my computer (me had to migrate to laptop)
<dneighbo> cant even read or write
<dneighbo> and she is jamming on gcompris like a pro (playing some memory game)
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: dneighbo thinks when a 4 year old can use xmms and gcompris the (non intuitive interface crap needs to be dropped as an issue)
Action: dneighbo thinks we need to start saying unlearning windows is difficult
<dneighbo> learning linux is easy
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<dragon> hello
<dragon> need help !
<dneighbo> help isnt here
<dneighbo> but i am
<dragon> have problem with designer
<dragon> especially the wizard
<dneighbo> what is the problem
<dragon> after selecting the fields from my test database (there are only 2 fields)
<dragon> the designer will only show one.
<dragon> but after i save it and load it again
<dragon> then it will show all
<dneighbo> crap are you using 0.3.0
<dragon> no
<dneighbo> hmmm
<dragon> i'm using 0.4
<dneighbo> i had similar issue where it was 'stacking' everything 
<dragon> also when i ran that gfd using forms the fields won't show
<dragon> it was ok when i was using 0.3
<dneighbo> grrr
<dneighbo> i think jcater isnt around tonight and designer is mostly his baby
<dneighbo> dumb attachments to dcl arent workign (me has to figure out what the hell is wrong there)
<dneighbo> can you send an email to designer-support@gnuenterprise.org
<dneighbo> explaining the problem
<dneighbo> and that you are using 0.4.0 pre-release
<dneighbo> i have some 'duties' to do here
<dragon> sure
<dragon> tks
<dneighbo> and i will grab the 0.4.0 pre release
<dneighbo> and see if i can replicate
<dneighbo> will you be around for an hour or so?
<dragon> i'll be back in about 1.5 hrs
<dneighbo> ok cool
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--- Wed Sep 25 2002