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Action: psu loves python
<psu> I just wanted to say that here, in a friendly, supportive atmosphere
<chillywilly> python loves psu!
<psu> big hugs all round ;-)
<Mr_You> python sucks! :-P heh
<Mr_You> </joke>
<psu> Mr_You: those 2 statements are *not* incompatible
<psu> except in various Southern states....
<jcater> hrm
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<btami> morning
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<siesel> morning
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<ajmitch> hi siesel
<siesel> hi ajmitch
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<ajmitch> how are you?
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<siesel> fine. I have some time for gnue now :)  What about you?
<ajmitch> getting into the uni exam time for the next month, then my summer break :)
<siesel> many exams? or will it be peace of cake?
<ajmitch> 4 exams
<ajmitch> can't say it'll be easy, but oh well
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<derek> hi rossg_
<rossg_> hiya
Nick change: rossg_ -> ninja
<ariel_> siesel: good luck (4 times)
Action: ajmitch sleeps
Action: siesel sings a lullaby for ajmitch
<ariel_> siesel: have you taught on how inheritance will be handled by appserver?
<ariel_> there are two issues:
<ariel_> first if inherited attributes are redifined as fields in the table corresponding to the derived class or not
<ariel_> second: if methods are registered in geas_meta_object, and a class inherits a method there is need of a mechanism
<ariel_> (like virtual table) to find it.
<ariel_> say 'base' defines 'foomethod()'
<ariel_> there is an entry in geas_meta_object with ref_oid = goid of base.
<ariel_> now 'derived' inherits from base and does not redefine foomethod
<ariel_> adding another entry in geas_meta_object with ref_oid = goid of base is expensive.
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<ariel_> searching for foomethod in base classes is also expensive
<ariel_> this is why vtables are for
<siesel> hmmm, I first thought of doing it the python way, i.e. using a __getattr__ function which searches for everything in the base object if an attribute isn't found in the derived object
<siesel> I like the idea that methods and attributs are stored in the same table
<siesel> If we would create a kind of vtables, that would mean to copy all methods from base classes into the newly created derived object 
<siesel> bbl
<ariel_> it is possible to add another type, say vpointer, to geas_meta_object
<ariel_> the value can be the goid of the method (or field) of the base table
<ariel_> if the method is redifined we add a full entry
<ariel_> if not a vpointer
<ariel_> this is also useful for fields
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<dneighbo> where oh where is the great python yoda?
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<Arturas> Hello
<siesel> hi Arturas
<Arturas> hi Jan
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<siesel> jcater: if you've time, can you have a look at that "add preliminary schema write support" I've added to cvs/common.
Action: siesel tell that to you per IRC, because it seems that the commit-gnue list don't works today
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<dneighbo> yeah python yoda is here
<dneighbo> jcater: two quick python questions (i left my book at home)
<dneighbo> a. how can i get an absolute  value?
<dneighbo> b. is there a function to tell if  number is positive or negative (or should i just write one)
<dneighbo> i will have a more complex object/dictionary/default value question later, but im baby stepping here :)
<jcater> a. abs(number)
<jcater> b. if ( num < 0): 
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> ok thats what i meant by write my own, didnt know if python had a native function or not
<jcater> not that I'm aware of
<jcater> but that doesn't mean there's not one
<dneighbo> i didnt expect it, just was curious
<dneighbo> on the class/dictionary thing
<dneighbo> im thinking i want a variable to 'default' to something
<dneighbo> er dictionary
<dneighbo> but then i want to change some values in it
<dneighbo> reuse it for a bit
<dneighbo> then refresh the defaults
<dneighbo> is there an easy way to do this with like a class
<dneighbo> i.e. create a class with property of dictionary that has defaults
<dneighbo> instatiate object, change values use object, destroy object create new instance?
<dneighbo> or am i going wrong way about it?
<jcater> um
<jcater> I'm not sure what you're trying to do
<dneighbo> well i will come back to it when i get there so i can talk more intelligently 
<jcater> >>> defaults = {'a':1,'b':2}
<jcater> >>> mydict = {}
<jcater> >>> mydict.update(defaults)
<jcater> >>> mydict['a'] = 3
<jcater> >>> print mydict['a']
<dneighbo> for now is there i need to do   text field that  is -3434.00 to be 3434   can i reasonably do       str(abs(int(-3434.00))))
<jcater> 3
<jcater> >>> mydict.update(defaults)
<jcater> >>> print mydict['a']
<jcater> 1
<jcater> >>>
<jcater> not sure if that gives you any ideas or not
<dneighbo> yes i think that solves my problem
<jcater> that looks logical to me
<dneighbo> cool
<nickr> python is my best friend
Action: jcater hopes you're referring to the language
<nickr> um
<nickr> yea
<nickr> the .. language.
<dneighbo> piss i cant get that   str(abs(int(-3443.00)))
<dneighbo> and i have it so abstracted im not able to get good error messages
<jcater> >>> print str(abs(int(-3443.00)))
<jcater> 3443
<jcater> must be something else
<dneighbo> grrr
<dneighbo> i do
<dneighbo> >>> x="-3444.00">>> print x-3444.00>>> y = str(abs(int(x)))Traceback (most recent call last):  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?ValueError: invalid literal for int(): -3444.00>>> 
<dneighbo> sorry for cruddy irc client
<jcater> "%d" % abs(float("-3443.00"))
<jcater> try that
Action: jcater didn't realize the -3443 was a string
<dneighbo> >>> print str(abs(int("-3443.00")))Traceback (most recent call last):  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?ValueError: invalid literal for int(): -3443.00>>> 
<dneighbo> ok
<jcater> int() is picky about strings you pass it
<jcater> but float is not
<jcater> go figure
<jcater> makes no sense to me
<jcater> but whatever :)
<dneighbo> that works let me try one more
<dneighbo> wild
<dneighbo> >>> x="-3444.00">>> print x-3444.00>>> y = str(int(abs(float(x))))>>> print y3444>>> 
<dneighbo> thank you python yoda ;)
<dneighbo> while i have you here.....
<dneighbo> is there an easy way to 'pad' a string
<dneighbo> i.e.  i  have 132 to make it '       123'
<jcater> yeah
<dneighbo> obviously ican do with python function combos, but wondering if it has some built in trick
<jcater> sorry
<jcater> users
<jcater> >>> import string
<jcater> >>> print string.rjust('12',10)
<jcater>         12
<jcater> >>>
<jcater> there's also ljust and center
<jcater> if you are doing some sort of report
<dneighbo> yeah just want i need
<dneighbo> man python kicks ass
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<StyXman> hi Chipaca 
<Chipaca> StyXman: what's up?
<StyXman> Chipaca: a red flamy ball of fire
<Chipaca> StyXman: aflojale
<StyXman> ok, I'll try this: a big spiderweb with a dead spider
Action: Chipaca reads the release anouncement of gnue 4.0 in awe
<StyXman> Chipaca: it would be 0.4.0?
<Chipaca> eso, eso
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<StyXman> they keep it for thyself :)
<Chipaca> to themselves
<ratmice> you guys rule
<Chipaca> ratmice: not us. You mean them.
<StyXman> ain't thyslef the old-style of themself?
<StyXman> the *very-old*-style?
<Chipaca> nope, thy is you
<StyXman> ah.
<Chipaca> thyself would be yourself
Action: StyXman learns useless english
<Chipaca> thine is yours
Action: Chipaca wishes he could forget
Action: ratmice forgot 
<ratmice> * Chipaca wishes he could forget
<ratmice> whoa
<StyXman> I forgot my second name once...
<StyXman> so...
<StyXman> jcater: I'm working in multiple windows again.
<jcater> StyXman: I'm sorry
<StyXman> I first made a hack that solved the issue of closing the right window, but that isn't enought
<StyXman> ok, just read, and throw a yes or no.
<StyXman> (if you can)
<StyXman> (...have time, etc...)
<dneighbo> yoda you still here?
<dneighbo>  i have some doozies for you :)
<Chipaca> dneighbo: hi
<dneighbo> first question is i made two dicts
Action: Chipaca missed the announcement for 0.4.x
<dneighbo> and i stor one dict inside the other 
<dneighbo> but im not sure exactly how to get the data out :)
<dneighbo> foo = { '1': 'blah, '2':'foo'}
<dneighbo> this client sucks too bad to type it
<jcater> >>> dict = { 'a': { 'a1': 2}, 'b': {'b2':2} }
<jcater> >>> print dict['a']['a1']
<jcater> 2
<Chipaca> dneighbo: you just do it
<Chipaca> exactly
<dneighbo> >>> default1 = {"1": "foo", "2": "foo"}>>> default2 = {"b": "", "a": ""}>>> dict1 = {}>>> dict2 = {}>>> dict1.update(default1)>>> dict2.update(default2)>>> dict2["b"] = default1
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> what i thought just checking
<jcater> gah
<jcater> are you creating a circular reference there?
<jcater> :)
<dneighbo> oh python just kicks butt
<dneighbo> here perhaps (in the sample)
<jcater> no, maybe not
Action: jcater thought so at first glance
<StyXman> so, I realize that every new form gets a new GFInstance, as seen in GFClient.runForm
<dneighbo> fsck
<StyXman> the new instance gets the new form with setForm
<dneighbo> now i get a boner of an error
<dneighbo> seems one cant do
<dneighbo> var = dict2["b"]["a"} + dict2["a"["b"}
Action: dneighbo needs to better understand python strings
<StyXman> dneighbo: ah?!?
<StyXman> would be 
Action: jcater hopes you typed that wrong
<jcater> in the irc client
<dneighbo> yeah
<StyXman> var= dict2["b"]["a"]+dict2["a"]["b"]
<dneighbo> griit
<dneighbo> >>> foobar = dict2["b"]["2"] + dict2["b"]["1"]>>> print foobarfoofoo>>> 
<dneighbo> just not working in the program
<dneighbo> let me try irc on that machine
<Chipaca> 'foobarfoofoo'?
<Chipaca> dneighbo: why do you use this web client thing, anyway?
<StyXman> foofoo is the desired output
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<Chipaca> ah
<derek2> Traceback (most recent call last):
<StyXman> is right as I can see from here
<derek2> grr
<Chipaca> derek2: why do you use this web client thing, anyway? (repeating myself)
<derek2> dont ask
<Chipaca> derek2: why do you use this web client thing, anyway? 
<derek2> Traceback (most recent call last):
<StyXman> !!!
<derek2>   File "conv2seq.py", line 172, in CreateSequential
<derek2>     record = period_struct['00']['trans_type'] + period_struct['00']['trans_code
<ratmice> web client as in dcl? or a native gnue form which posts to a website?
<StyXman> can we give derek an account with epic4?
<derek2> _exp'] + period_struct['00']['filler21']
<derek2> TypeError: sequence index must be integer
<Chipaca> StyXman: yeap
<derek2> ratmice: he means my irc client
<derek2> jcater any thoughts on error above?
<StyXman> derek2: somewhere you put a list where a dict should be
<jcater> derek2: either period_struct['00
<jcater> derek2: either period_struct['00'] is a string or list
<jcater> or  period_struct['00']['transcode'] is
<derek2> period_struct = {}
<Chipaca> sounds like you initialized it with [] instead of with {}
<derek2> jcater i hate no ssh
<ratmice> whoa, that's crazy i'd assume you're behind heinous firewall
<derek2> can i email you something?
<derek2> ratmice that would be a good assumption
<Chipaca> derek2: if you can web, you can ssh :)
<StyXman> jcater: ok, the short question is: should instances be the ones capable of handling several windows?
<StyXman> Chipaca: think in uni's lab last year...
<Chipaca> derek2: httptunnel
<Chipaca> StyXman: wasn't there
Action: StyXman nods @ Chipaca 
<jcater> Chipaca: you have a url on httptunnel?
<jcater> StyXman: I don't think so
<jcater> Instance == Instance of a form
<StyXman> so, one instance per window.
<StyXman> ah, I got them wrong :-(
<Chipaca> jcater: umm... apt-get install httptunnel?
<Chipaca> i'll google for that
<Chipaca> :)
<StyXman> Chipaca: better freshmeat for it
<jcater> Chipaca: I'll look
<jcater> cool
<jcater> !
<Chipaca> http://www.nocrew.org/software/httptunnel.html
<Chipaca> ok
<Chipaca> I thought everybody knew httptunnel :)
<StyXman> then, I still don't know wtf multiple forms doesn't work properly.
<StyXman> it's something deep into gnue, but I just can't find it.
<StyXman> or wx,....
<StyXman> maybe I should try another ui
<StyXman> anyway, that means that a form could only be instanced once?
<StyXman> that could be cool.
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<Maniac_> gnuebot: botsnack
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<StyXman> is it possible to 'decompile' a .pyc file?
<Chipaca> StyXman: yes
<Chipaca> StyXman: there's an app -- dunno if it's for 2.1 -- that does just that
<Chipaca> i.e. unwind a pyc back into a puy
<Chipaca> py even
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<StyXman> ah, and could you just tell me what? "there's an app" doesn't help that much...
<Chipaca> StyXman: no
<Chipaca> I could, but then I'd have to kill you
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<Chipaca> StyXman: to tell the truth, I don't even recall where I read it
<Chipaca> chillywilly: 'lo
<chillywilly> ello
<Chipaca> jcater: to put delegates in I've got to change the api for the dbrivers a bit
<Chipaca> jcater: only about this much
Action: Chipaca points at the size he means
<Chipaca> jcater: basically I've got to have the drivers call the __init__ of dbsig
<Chipaca> and then call some other stuff in the dbsig, too
<StyXman> Chipaca: sorry, bad day
<Chipaca> StyXman: not that bad; I'm getting adsl :)
Action: Chipaca wonders at someone as busy as jcater using an synchronous thing as irc to do distributed developement
<Chipaca> if someone designed a protocol like that I'd have them shot
<StyXman> Chipaca: ah?!?
<jcater> which drivers
<jcater> call the __init__ of dbsig?
<Chipaca> err
<Chipaca> sort of
<Chipaca> actually, maybe not
<Chipaca> but e.g. 
<Chipaca> before doing the update
<Chipaca> e.g. in _psql, before doing cursor.execute(whatever), you'd have to.. umm
<Chipaca> hmm
<Chipaca> maybe I should just jamm it into the execute :)
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<Chipaca> no easy way to do that, is there?
<Chipaca> *sigh*
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<siesel> hi
<Chipaca> siesel: hi
<chillywilly> hi jan
<chillywilly> development has slowed a bit eh?
<chillywilly> guess it's the release factor or somethin'
<chillywilly> ;)
<siesel> you say it :)
<Chipaca> was the release announced at some moment?
<chillywilly> yea
<siesel> I found a quite interesting link yesterday: http://hibernate.sourceforge.net/
<chillywilly> on the gnue-announce list
<Chipaca> not on gnue-dev?
<Chipaca> I'd've thought gnue-dev was subscribed to gnue-announce
<siesel> although it is in java, but it has some good ideas concerning Obj2Rel mapping and an XML mapping format we could use for appserver
<chillywilly> interesting indeed :)
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<chillywilly> siesel: you read the online manual?
<chillywilly> it's nice to see sch good docs for a free/os project
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<siesel> yep, I read it. Possibly gnue should use a minimalist doc tool too :)  [This document was generated using AFT v5.0793]
<chillywilly> AFT?
<chillywilly> how do you know about J2EE stuff?
Action: chillywilly knows nothing
<nickr> J2EE is the wave of the future!
<nickr> don't get left behind with your primative technology
<dtm> *yes*!!
<dtm> j2ee is fancy.
<chillywilly> uh, yea ;P
<dtm> and *highly* marketable, from what i hear.
<dtm> :-o
<dtm> what's this i hear derek saying about gnue pushing the limits of python?  there *are* no limits to J2EE!
<dtm> ;)
<dtm> it runs on supercomputers and mainframes!
<dtm> and cash registers and fountain pens!
<chillywilly> oh geeze
<nickr> hamsters and tortoises!
<dtm> i have j2me embedded into my cd-r media, to dynamically generate the music in atomically distributed fashion across all my cd-r's, as i'm playing it!
<nickr> hehe
Action: Chipaca waves
<Chipaca> gotta go pay for my adsl :)
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<siesel> cw: AFT=Almost Free Text, AFT source documents look a lot like plain old ASCII text. 
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> they use Java Reflection it seems to store the object
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<nickr> 'Java Reflection'?
<siesel> we could do the same for python.
<chillywilly> nickr: yea code to manipulate objects on the fly and create them on the fly, like a Class class ;)
<nickr> Like all python objects
<jcater> nickr: go wash your mouth out now?!?!?
<chillywilly> yea
<nickr> Python has delightful reflectivity
<chillywilly> well yea
<jcater> there will be no java reflection in this room
<chillywilly> it's siesel's fault ;)
<chillywilly> I blame him
<nickr> I love python.
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<chillywilly> me too :)
Action: siesel washes his hands of it. 
<chillywilly> hah
<chillywilly> you cannot!
<chillywilly> you spoke the name of Java in this house, you shall feel the wrath ;)
<siesel> the one, who has no guilt, should throw the first stone !!!!! ;)
<chillywilly> btw, if you do look at the Java ODMG binding they use external resource files like this
<chillywilly> siesel: :)
<chillywilly> has no sin you mean ;)
Action: siesel just knows the german "original"
<jcater> Java ODMG
<jcater> eeew
<jcater> TWO nasty words
<jcater> shame on you
Action: siesel begins to throw stones ;)
<chillywilly> hah
<chillywilly> they use a proxy for laxy loading
<chillywilly> lazy
<chillywilly> er, jcater loading ;)
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<chillywilly> so siesel basically sing an xml format like this we gain the ability to change the O/R mapping?
<chillywilly> why would we not just go from our object format to gsd ?
<chillywilly> perhaps I am missing the utility of sing an xml mapping description
<derek2> bbl
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<siesel> because one object format can be stored in different kinds of database schema, so we have to define which parts of an object go to which database table.
<siesel> but I think I have to have a second look at that hibernation thingy.
Action: chillywilly contemplates
<chillywilly> yea you want to be able to vary the mapping right?
<siesel> yep.
Action: chillywilly would just be one to pick the best approach and stick with that
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<chillywilly> but I suppose this kinda flexiblity would be nice
<chillywilly> as there's no real *best* approach anyway
<siesel> I like that best approach thing, but I don't think that there is allways a *best* approach 
<chillywilly> that's what I just said ;)
<chillywilly> I don't think appserver is going to move much further without tackling the whole object-relationsl mapping issue...it is just something that needs to be worked out
<nickr> just have the objects be 'out there'
<nickr> and when you need them, they are there
<nickr> like a fajita
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> you're making me hungry ;)
<siesel> In _featuretest I've tryed to implement pluggable object2relational mapper.
<siesel> The only thing really missing is an index manager.
<chillywilly> which files do that?
<siesel> that O2R mapper stuff is in geasMetaObject.py
Action: chillywilly is looking there now ;)
<siesel> There is a geasSimpleObjectFactory and a geasClass, both can build objects out of database tables, and should allow to store them back too.
<siesel> In the future there should be geasClassWithInheritance and a geasClassWithCustomMapping classes defined.
<chillywilly> k
<siesel> btw. will you come to the LinuxWorldExpo? :)
<chillywilly> where?
<siesel> FRA
<chillywilly> france?
<siesel> FRA = Frankfurt
<siesel> Germany
<chillywilly> I can't afford to fly to Germany 
<siesel> :(
<siesel> sniff
<chillywilly> I can't even afford to go to the expo when it's in SF, USA
Action: siesel thinks that gnue needs some more sponsors 
<chillywilly> perhaps I should really try and figure ot what all this code does ;)
<chillywilly> s/ot/out/
<siesel> it would be better to figure out what it should do (and add the missing parts)  ;)
<chillywilly> yea, but I have to understand it before I can do that
Action: siesel really hopes that we have some good designs and concrete plans about appserver after the european gnue meeting
<chillywilly> who are you meeting with?
<chillywilly> reinhard?
<siesel> reinhard, lupo, Arturas?, ra3vat?
<chillywilly> cool
<siesel> JohannesV, ...
Action: siesel hopes that we have a room with Internet connection
Action: chillywilly reads code and feels stupid ;)
<chillywilly> what does referenceField do for a data source?
<chillywilly> that field gets pulled when you do a getResultSet?
<chillywilly> er, create
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<siesel> all referenceFields are pulled.
<chillywilly> uhuh
<siesel> the term referenceFields has nothing to do with the _featureTest stuff, it is name "reference..." because in normal cases its a field which is used/referenced in a Form
<chillywilly> I was looking in GEDI.py
<chillywilly> that's why I asked
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<ajmitch> morning
<chillywilly> hiya
<ajmitch> sigh, i get up & see that my computer is just about out of memory again
<siesel> ajmitch: you should stop using M$ Software ;)
<siesel> night
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<jcater> anyone here ever play w/loadkeys or xmodmap ?
<ajmitch> yeah, a little
<chillywilly> yep
<jcater> or know of a way to make F?? keys do strings of text?
<chillywilly> to chnage the meta key and remap jeys one time when some of my keys were fscked
<jcater> I figured out how to do it on the console w/loadkeys
<jcater> but apparently the same trick doesn't work under X
<jcater> :(
<jamest> i've only done key remappings not string replacements
<jcater> :(
<jcater> loadkeys does exactly what I need
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<jcater> but X uses its own keyboard engine
<chillywilly> what are you making those keys do?
<jcater> cash registers expect certani keys to be able to send strings
Action: jcater needs to get a programmable keyboard
<jcater> but i was hoping to wing it
<jcater> until I could get one
<jcater> e.g., 
<jcater> F12 needs to output /tender0^M
<chillywilly> interesting
<chillywilly> evil, but interesting ;)
<ajmitch> this for the bookstore?
<chillywilly> obviously ;)
<chillywilly> what else would make him stoop to such menacing methods ;)?
<ajmitch> donuts
<jcater> ajmitch: yup
<jcater> mmmm
<chillywilly> HEH
<jcater> F12 = "call donut shop"
<chillywilly> heheh
<jcater> ooo
Action: jcater needs one of those "clappers"
<jcater> the ones that turn on and off the lights
<jcater> except I'd hook mine up to an auto dialer
<jcater> <clap><clap>
<jcater> "Yeah, 2 dozen... you know the place"
<jcater> <clap>?
<chillywilly> DO-NUTS!
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<jamest> jcater: sounds like too much work...i figured a cron job would work better
<jamest> 0,15,30,45 * * * * /home/jcater/bin/request_donuts
<jamest> then have it email, call, or fax
<jcater> jamest: maybe that'd be too slow
<jcater> how about an inittab entry?
<jamest> :)
<derek> rofl
Action: derek is back (gone 66:51:05)
<chillywilly> the donut order run level
<chillywilly> ;)
Action: chillywilly envisions jcater with his very own donut ordering machine dedicated solely for this purpose
<derek> whatever solution you provide
<derek> make sure you have donut shoppe cluster or at minimum failover donut shoppe
<derek> as if you make a request that comes up null the jcater machine will FREAK
<chillywilly> it'll start electrocuting passers by
<chillywilly> GIVE ME DONUST NOOOOWWW!!!!
<chillywilly> er, DONUTS even
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<derek> sigh
<derek> i search for "business objects" postgres
<derek> and gnue comes up like 14th on the list of hits
<derek> we are taking over google man
<chillywilly> woooo
<ajmitch> uh oh
<derek> hmmm
<derek> what time does psu normally show up?
<derek> not until way late huh
<chillywilly> ummm
Action: derek always forgets
<ajmitch> not until about 6pm my time
<chillywilly> not late in AZ time
<derek> i dont know how to post news to the web sigh
<ajmitch> 7am UTC
<derek> er site
<derek> im -7 so 7am would be midnight my time?
<derek> that isnt right thats more in line with reinhard
<derek> i think he must be like -2 at least
<derek> if not -4
<derek> prolly -2
<derek> who knows
<jamest> we got new news?
<derek> yeah
<derek> we were included on a real .iso distro
<derek> for windows
<derek> GNU Win II
<jamest> i hope it was the latest release
<ajmitch> hmm, america's cup challenger races on now
<ajmitch> bbl
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<jcater> derek: 66 hrs?
<jcater> been busy?
<derek> yeah
<derek> funny thing is im sure i was netsplit 400 times in that 66hrs
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<derek> hi toy dude ;)
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