see yas SachaS (~Sacha@ark.cs.curtin.edu.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). ********************* Debian packages for: * gnue-common * gnue-forms-wxgtk * gnue-designer are at: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/debian/ ********************* PLEASE TEST AND SUBMIT PATCHES!!!!! It's my first attempt at debs. (Thanks Zope for letting me, um, "borrow" your .deb sources :) Nick change: jcater -> jcSleep crap those are at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases/ jcSleep (~jcater@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jcater@cpe-024-165-223-104.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: jcater -> jcSleep ****** Also, if anyone wants to tweak, all the files I used are in cvs/*/packaging/debian/ ****** btami_ (~btami@3e70d729.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. morning guys btami_ (~btami@3e70d729.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Client Quit ra3vat_ (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Client Quit reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard_ (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard_ (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Client Quit ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Client Quit Action: derek is back (gone 10:07:06) derek (~dneighbo@24.221.112.50) left irc: Remote closed the connection derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. morning Nick change: jcSleep -> jcater hello wow the new gaim site is pretty nice looking visually siesel (jan@dial-195-14-251-150.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi :) hi derek, do you know any software for church management? jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-100.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. btami_ (~btami@3e70d735.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all jcater: are you here? just want to tell that kinterbasdb= __init__.py and _kinterbasdb.pyd on win32 no dll needed I get an error message about some .dll missing when I use mcmillan to package it :( Action: jcater doesn't have that handy... so I forget which dll it said there isn't any dll in kinterbasdb whether or not there is, mcmillan won't let me package it which poses a problem :( how mcmillan knows anything about kinterbasdb? ah, _kinterbasdb.pyd referenses gds32.dll this is in c:\windows\system32 maybe this was that or python22.dll or MSVCRT.dll or KERNEL32.dll :) all referenced in _kinterbasdb.pyd where did you made .exe, on linux or on win32 box? win32 how can i try this packaging myself ? is there some automation or just handmade gnue/forms/packaging/inno? hello [11:33] Last message repeated 1 time(s). siesel: im writing some extending NOLA to do it with GNUe i am youth pastor and church council member for our church so i have vested interest in it getting done asap ra3vat: and gnue/*/packaging/mcmillan, i find it :) ok :) inno/README should be useful i will try maybe :) bye btami_ (~btami@3e70d735.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: derek: cool. I thought of using gnue for it too. :) Although there will be many differences (i.e. german protestant church is getting support by the state (f.e. "church tax", etc)) there should still be many in common. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@dial-195-14-251-150.netcologne.de) left irc: "BitchX sucks" reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Don't contradict a woman -- wait until she does herself" DanielD (~daniel@pD9EB00E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (~rossg@rossg.dial.nildram.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. DanielD (~daniel@pD9EB00E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) is anybody here that knows how to run COFF binaries in woody? ? :-o reinhard: are you referring perhaps to iBCS? hmmm no psu ddttmm: when you see rsb tell him to give me a ring ok or to join in irc he's coming over tothe office here RSN(tm) Remosi: unlimited engineering phone situation er re: not remosi cool. derek: dude this is so repugnant.... we have several people on the axis team interested in a web based financial accounting package and they're looking at sql-ledger! the madness continues! oh well it's not like the FSF had money to pay anyone to develop an accounting module for GNUe anyway, right? :} first because it didnt have a cli/emacs and now because it doesn't have a web UI! well actually those are red herrings due to the fact that it doesn't exist anyway. derek: so iirc you were saying that gnue currently operates basically as a thin client, right? is there any way to have it transparently loaded and launched on the fly via a web browser? a la sashxb? accounting module is coming along via nola maybe the httpd could look at the binary type of the local http user agent and download the appropriate wxwindows client? and then tunnel the connection through the browser's ssl? tunnel/proxy why would you have a web page execute a local app? well, actually you could Mr_You: so that it can be served from one UI and one connection for deployment and usability issues why do you need one connection? siesel (jan@dial-194-8-196-67.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. firewall? there are lots of people who basically want their web browser to be one virtual workspace as much as possible, and then you want one connection for security and/or deployment issues you would need to develope a local or web-based client to communicate via http. this reduces or eliminates the need for VPN or multiple points of failure and of administration if it can be launched and connected via https well http isn't a persistent protocol ddttmm: i suppose its really sick as GNUe currently has a web accounting system called Acclite which is a repackaging and refactoring of NOLA Mr_You: wxwindows is its own stanadalone api, right? it's not based on python or such? we looked at sql-ledger and it was so well we will say not for us never used it. derek: then i have been deceived i.e. we believe being able to reconcile an account is mandatory not optional :) i should like to observe this Acclite we have been slow to announce it as we didnt want to fork NOLA but last week or week before we said go for it i see ddttm: but if you create a wxwindows app, it makes more since to just make it standalone.. and http isn't a persistent protocol so it has usability/functionality problems. let me find something Mr_You: it can be made persistant, of course, but i dont know if that's within the scope or feasibility of the project not really its virtually presistent, not really persistent. the code makes it seem persistent to the end user. mmhm well, whatever's best. we're in a world of outsourced and telecommuting accountants. :) from my preliminary searching it would require javascript or iforms or such. to make it appear to the end user that it is persistent, by doing stuff in the "background" http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020629_35.html#13 http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020706_36.html#6 vhttp://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020727_39.html#10 ddttmm: not excatly whats that about dere? http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020817_42.html#8 http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020907_45.html#14 ddttmm: ibcs is for kernel 2.2 ddttmm: my question refered to kernel 2.4 other distributions (like redhat and suse) have a kernel module named "binfmt_coff" but i didn't find that in woody neither in sid reinhard: oh, ibcs is deprecated? hm well good luck :) reinhard: you could get their kernel src package and read the patches it might be deprecated.. Action: siesel found an XMLRPC library for javascript, i.e. good changes for a thin javascript client directly accessing the appserver :) and the most recent discussion http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020921_47.html#31 of most interest to you and axisgw siesel: killer siesel: I'll keep it in mind. siesel: have a url handy or no? derek: i'll put all those in our wiki derek: stanx reinhard: ask in #debian or #debian-devel im sure a sources.list exists out side of sid/sarge/woody that has a kernel that is to your suiting what were you looking for again? derek: does gnue do soap? derek: he's looking for COFF binary execution for sid SOAP makes you CLEAN http://www.vcdn.org/Public/XMLRPC/index.php uh, hi Action: ddttmm is just a soiled, dirty boy ddttmm: although SOAP isn't supported at the moment, it is the next commdriver to be implemented reinhard: also note if rpms exist you may use alien to convert them to .debs ddttmm: what siesel said siesel: is also one of two (mr you the other) that are making html drivers for gnue forms def files derek: 4.2 in unstable ok well if there's any way that using phpgwapi for any of the html oriented stuff would be better or easier, lemme know if i can facilitate anything seek3r intends to implement soap for phpgwapi RSN(tm) and lex intends to backport that to 0.9.14 derek: rsb is here preparing for voice communications uplinking ddttmm: you could probably build a forms client in a week. cool i willl be in and out filing paperwork have him /msg me when he gets in irc house is way loud to do over phone have 3 kids besides my own 3 over so you prefer irc over phone ? yip so I thought of using php to create the basic layout and set variables, etc., i.e. building the java client. Then the user can use that specific javascript client for fast access :) thats what I want. javascript for persistent-like behavior. what about iForms? iForms? faqroo (faqroo@203.199.239.252) joined #gnuenterprise. some new deal for similar behavior hi everybody faqroo i'm S.anand Nataraj From India... I'm doing my masters in computers... & i was asked to do some real time projects.. one of my cousin told me about opensource & about gnue... real-time software? for embedded usage? so is there any way i can get some projects... anything... but i need to submit the project report in my university... sorry I don't understand your request. faqroo: we do Free Software :) yep i know... my cousin told me... this will me a win-win for both... i can complete my university project, as well as i can contribute something to a non-profit community... chillywilly r u tere??? DanielD (~daniel@pD9EB00E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi am i in the right place... no one replies... I said I don't understand your request faqroo. sounds like you want to help GNUe somehow.. Mr: i need to do a project for my university... my cousin told me about gnue & he told if i do the project it will be of help for the community & for me(coz i can complete the project)... faqroo: what do you intend to do for your project? with GNUe? asdfasdf (~asdfasdf@adsl-66.218.46.51.dslextreme.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Mr: when i went thru the site, i found many projects not started.. ex: hr management etc... Mr: i'm willing to take any of the module of that... Mr: i know "C" as far programming is concerned... should I try sticking it in the dryer on low? ;-) oops to create application modules you create XML forms using Designer or a text editor. Mr: i've not done any XML forms... for HTML i use editors... faqroo: there is still much work to do to improve the tools (f.e. navigator, reports ...) and even writing application modules will need more than just writing XML, it could envolve writing triggers in python etc, writing methods for appserver or database triggers (SQL) ... siesel: but i'm a student, i dont know anyting regarding reports or project management, i can do the work you give me related to programming :)... most of the apps are written in python s/apps/tools siesel: if you can give me the project spec & the language u want me to do it, i can buy some books, use internet resources & surely, i can keep up the deadlines... open-source software has no deadlines ;-) lesson #1 ;-) Mr: i've heared of python, but never worked on it, i can do it, because i know "C" & can manage with your support... language would be mostly python :) faqroo: well then you'll want to get the code from cvs and start looking at it. Mr: i'm sorry, i'm comming here for the first time & just 2 days back i came to know about opensource & gnue.. faqroo: no problem. Mr: :) Action: siesel thinks that it would be best for you to talk to derek(dneigbo) or jcater, because they have the best overview about the things, which should be done. Mr: i need the spec & the project i'll be given or deputed... coz i need to submit it in university, before i start it... siesel : thank you... but is there anyway i can mail them, coz they are not replying :(... or can you tell me anyotehr means to contact any important member here??? faqroo: well talk to others about that, but I would suggest getting the source code and just diving in. the best way is to write a mail to gnue-dev@gnu.org Mr: from where can i get the source code... Mr: then which project source code??? siesel: than a lot... i'll mail them immediately... faqroo: which operating system are you using? siesel: windows... why??? http://savannah.gnu.org/cvs/?group=gnue faqroo: read the GNUe.org website for details... it works like this somewhat: GNUe is made up of different tools/applications that allow you to build applications/modules using these tools.. the only coding is done on the tools that implement the framework of GNUe applications, these applications are built using tools/editors/designers/clients/servers which use: XML, XMLRPC, etc. etc. faqroo: http://savannah.gnu.org/cvs/?group=gnue thanx chillywilly :) hello I would just look around and pick something you like...you might want to read the python tutorial ;) http://www.python.org/doc/current/tut/tut.html hey Brittney is busyy ok thanks to all comments re: coff there are prebuild binaries at: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.phphttp://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php night all reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Everything that is worth fighting for, is worthy fighting dirty for" reinhard: yous till awake? doh I was gonna ask him if he linked the FOTR movie er liked Action: chillywilly watched the second half a while ago and the whole movie today whats up guys [16:30] Last message repeated 1 time(s). suuuuuup ;P derek: do you have cellular? you are repeating yourself ;) Action: Mr_You dropped his dads phone as his loaner in his cheerwine :-( antenae ain't workin, its in the dryer on "air"..this happened last night he did some bad stuff to it anyways.. cheerwine? yeah its a southern soft drink.. actually have some relatives by marriage who started it. its cherry.. good. cheerwine funny name ;-) its not alcoholic ;-) Action: chillywilly is trying not to drink soda anymore I'm about to start building on my aquaponics system once I get some money. will be about 3'x 2' or 3'x 4' to grow some good stash?...er, that's hydroponics isn't it? ; ;) i have pasted derek's accounting-related Kernel Cousin urls into the axiswiki DanielD (~daniel@pD9EB00E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) we shall descend upon it with vim and vigor Action: chillywilly suggests emacs and vigor ;) h0h0 faqroo (faqroo@203.199.239.252) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Action: Mr_You sighs. chillywilly: jessica was talking to you guys and no one responded last time I try to help someone. siesel (jan@dial-194-8-196-67.netcologne.de) left irc: "night" derek: what? Action: chillywilly is away: dinner ra3vat_ (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) devil_on_ (~viren_16@203.163.152.11) joined #gnuenterprise. devil_on_ (~viren_16@203.163.152.11) left #gnuenterprise. from var business magazine: the smb world according to MS: low-small businesses - 61% of smb market - 31 million businesses - fewer than 5 pcs medium-small businesses - 13 million businesses - 5-24 pcs each crossover - 1 million businesses - 24-49 pcs each core-medium businesses - 300K businesses - 50-250 pcs each high-medium - no estimate on the number of these, but enterprise size, more than 250 pcs, mostly vertical solutions by that math, there are 50 million businesses, and 5.5 mil unaccounted for, many of which may be enterprise size hmm by number of PC's the medium to small businesses dominate, however, and therefore represent the most lucrative market to microsoft. So if we scale to 24 pcs, we're at rock star threat level 5. hehe :-o KILL EM ALL Action: ddttmm throws the switch to DEFCON V Action: ajmitch grabs an ax & advances on ddttmm :-o Not coincidentally, we're also the ayatola of consultola, and therefore own the fundorama slama-jama rdean (~rdean@chcgil2-ar2-4-64-098-161.chcgil2.dsl-verizon.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: ddttmm aims the nukes at ajmitch and orders asdfasdf to turn his key and flip his switch! Action: asdfasdf refuses to destroy the world over an irc misunderstanding Action: asdfasdf instead makes peace with ajmitch's inner child and handcuffs it to dtm's better nature, and watches as they ride off into the sunset of propriety, holding hands. awww... how cute! Action: ajmitch vomits ***YAY*** Action: ddttmm calls over his shoulder, "Thanks, asdfasdf!!!" Action: asdfasdf goes to the gym **fireworks burst in the sky** **camera pans down to the fireworks display shimmering in ajmitch's heap of vomit** Action: ddttmm gets ajmitch a bib Action: ajmitch runs away quickly derek: you want to avoid having Acclite turn into a fork. one way to avoid that might be for them to simply turn over canonical development to GNUe. derek: and to have _them_ adopt _our_ project it would behoove both of us massively they want nothing to do with it, apparently, and 1 week response time is astronomical by our standards well. it's a grassroots project's prerogative to be glacial, but once we decide to move expediently then the rules change ;) derek: basically their project will go nowhere from here, if i understand correctl y virtually nowhere KeithJagrs (~jorgre@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise. hello is there anybody in there? just nod if you can hear me is there anyone home Action: ajmitch nods ;o) Action: derek nods heh Hello I have visited the gnue site several times this year seems a very interesting project Do you have any date in mind when it could be ready for production? 2004 perhaps? it's used in production now really? depends on what parts you want to use, though :) yep appserver isn't used in production yet (afaik), but forms is, derek could give more info production today well a version number like 0.0.2 doesn't really encourage people to use some app for production forms / common / designer / reports though reports arent easy to create, though easy to use hey now we are version 0.4.0 sure we coudl make it version 1.0.0 but why lie? developers here are quite conservative with version numbering :) i.e. we arent competing for money yor are right derek my question is so we dont have penile version envy when do you think you will be reachin 1.0 ? first we have to decide on what 1.0 will be that company foo released X so we need to release X+1 so people see our box as desirable on the self er shelf KeithJagrs: i think 6 months is unreasonable 12 months is more likely but as aj says a lot will depend on what we say we 'want' for 1.0.0 12 months seems very reasonable What do you use for creating the GUI? KeithJagrs: also remember we are not a mickey mouse app in the sense that currently we are maintaining at least 4 or 5 complete tools designer, forms, common, reports, appserver, navigator, integrator, dcl ah to make gui use designer I see so while we might move from 0.3.0 to 0.4.0 in a span of 3 months why dont you use XUL that is 7 tools getting released see the faq ok 7 tools! phew http://www.gnuenterprise.org/faq.html#GNUe-FAQ-2.20 Action: ajmitch wonders why xul would be used :) isn't the main/only XUL client mozilla for now? hmm have you ever heard of Komodo? somewhat is a cross plataform RAD it uses XUL you dont have to load the whole mozilla browser to use XUL just the engine XUL isn't based on data-aware widgets like the GNUe forms definitions :) Action: ajmitch pulls out the buzzwords its real cross platform well again read the faq hehe the NUMBER one reason is XUL was a pile of steaming poo when gnue was started i.e. around m7 - m10 I didnt expect to see my same question in the FAQ most of the docs were incorrect the developers were frustrated dave hyatt had serious wrist issues and so wasnt even able to type watterson and shaver were considering leaving (one of them did) these were the core of XUL team at that time they were unable to address data binding beyond rdf/rss sources as it wasnt in scope one BIG problem that i can see with komodo - it's not free software sure we could have forged some xpcom stuff to do what gnue-common does but honestly xpcom was so imature it was scary mostly the problem is that xforms/xul stuff is web form based our stuff is data driven from the core i.e. gnue forms are nearly worthless if you arent wanting to 'store' data well i talked about komodo to put an example of the use of XUL xul/xforms are designed more to 'pass' data not suggesting to use it as an IDE for gnue Action: ajmitch still thinks that the gtk2 driver provides a prettier UI than wxPython :) again as the faq states XUL team might be addressing data binding and someone can certainly make a XUL interface that reads .gfd files and all the XUL people will be happy why is it that if i search google for 'xul client', #2 & #3 links are from GNUe lists? ;) maybe they could embed gecko in a java client and make two camps happy at one time. ;) later heh Action: derek is away: softball cya later derek cya ajmitch: so what are you using gnue for right now ? right now, nothing, since i've got exams in a few weeks :) ;) but after that it'll be some accounting stuff, hopefully great hmm do you think the app server will be multi purpose I mean rivaling with other Python App servers? like skukweb, webware, twisted..?