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<lawrence> msg gnuebot news
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<btami> good morning
<lawrence> is it that early
<btami> just here
<lawrence> guess it is
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<mandor> hi ?
<ajmitch> hi
<mandor> I'm looking for a multi-platform way to access to DB2 and Oracle Databases, maybe some guys here have some advice ?
<btami> python ?
<mandor> C/C++
<btami> we use only python here :)
<ariel_> mandor: try unixodbc
<mandor> ariel_: I'm on the website, but the only oracle odbc driver I found was expensive :/
<ariel_> mandor: try also freeodbc they have free drivers.
<mandor> thx, I'm checking this
<ariel_> it seems me (but i can mistake) that along with oracle8 personal edition distro there is also odbc driver 
<mandor> ariel_: oracle has an odbc driver on its website, but it's windows-only
<ariel_> mandor: if you don't have to deal with legacy databases why not considering to switch to more free (or better open source) db's?
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<siesel> hi all
<mandor> I have to deal with oracle & db2 database (at least). I'm working on a tool which connects to a client's database (I'm not building new databases, just accessing existent ones)
<ariel_> hi siesel
<siesel> hi ariel_
<ariel_> siesel: reinhard: for Frankfurt, there is any accomodation or do i nedd to provide by myself?
<reinhard> you should provide for yourself
<reinhard> it would be great if you could come
<ariel_> i dunno, it depends mainly on work
<reinhard> i would recommend staying in the InterCityHotel because that's where the meeting will be
<reinhard> ok
<ariel_> thx
<ariel_> there is www address of the hotel?
<reinhard> http://www.intercityhotel.de
<ariel_> ok
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<Arturas> Hello
<jamest> hello
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<siesel> hi
<siesel> Mr_You: you here?
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Action: derek is away: work
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<siesel> Mr_You: I hope you read the log :)
<siesel> Mr_You: full working forms client (just for simple forms at the moment) (i.e. working parser+ browsing,editing,deleting data in appserver over xmlrpc) is ready to download from http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/jsclient/gnue-forms.html
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<yogurt2unge> hello
<yogurt2unge> I have encoding problems with merge-rtf....
<yogurt2unge> I can't use vocal with acent
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<yogurt2unge> Ok, I'm right, I forgot the <?xml?> line
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<Arturas> someone is looking here now??
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Action: Arturas is desperately searching for help
<Arturas> hi lupo
<lupo> hi Arturas
<Arturas> lupo: do you know bash? (i can't understand one script)
<lupo> quite a bit, i've done some systems administration
<Arturas> cool :)
<Arturas> if we have script
<Arturas> --
<Arturas>   cvsbase = """#!/bin/sh
<Arturas>        if [ "z$GNUE_CONNECTIONS" = "z" ]
<Arturas>         then
<Arturas>          if [ -f %(CONFDIR)s/etc/connections.conf ]
<Arturas>          then
<Arturas>            GNUE_CONNECTIONS=%(CONFDIR)s/etc/connections.conf
<Arturas>            export GNUE_CONNECTIONS
<Arturas>          fi
<Arturas>        fi
<Arturas>        if [ "z$INSTALL_PREFIX" = "z" ]
<Arturas>        then
<Arturas>          INSTALL_PREFIX=%(CONFDIR)s
<Arturas>          export INSTALL_PREFIX
<Arturas>        fi
<Arturas>        PYTHONPATH=%(BASEDIR)s:$PYTHONPATH; export PYTHONPATH
<Arturas>        %(PYTHONBIN)s %(GNUEDIR)s/%%s "$@"
<Arturas>     """ % globals()
<Arturas> --
<Arturas> as i understand in the beginning
<Arturas> it checks for and defines environment variables
<Arturas> but what does it do at the end???
<Arturas> (it's from setup-cvs.py)
<jcater> which part?
<Arturas> middle
<Arturas> about 350 lines
<lupo> you mean PYTHONPATH=%(BASEDIR)s:$PYTHONPATH; export PYTHONPATH ?
<jcater> err, I meant which part of what you pasted
<Arturas> sorry
<Arturas> yes
<Arturas> 3 bottom lines
<Arturas> not the last one :) that i understand :)
<Arturas> --> %(PYTHONBIN)s %(GNUEDIR)s/%%s "$@"
<jamest> PYTHONPATH=%(BASEDIR)s:$PYTHONPATH; export PYTHONPATH
<jamest>  %(PYTHONBIN)s %(GNUEDIR)s/%s "$@"
<jamest> those lines?
<Arturas> yes
<Arturas> we define and export python path and what do we do then?
<jamest> run python
<Arturas> i guess we execute something
<jcater> yes
<jcater> %(PYTHONBIN) would expand to /usr/bin/python2.1
<jcater> (or such)
<Arturas> and to what expands '%%s'?
<jcater> %(GNUEDIR) would expand to something line cvs/gnue/
<jamest> the gnue tool IIRC
<jamest> like the forms client .py file
<jcater> then %s would be whatever's passed to the method you are looking at
<jcater> e.g., forms/GFClient.py
<jamest> or ther reports client
<Arturas> i think that %%s should have to expand into something more concrete
<Arturas> i take it from setup-cvs.py
<jcater> Arturas: it does
<Arturas> and i guess neither
<jcater> it's not expanded by bash
<jcater> it's replaced by python
<jamest> passes in via the  % globals()
<Arturas> ok, but what's put instead the %%s?
<jcater> def createCVS (scriptdir,script,py):
<jcater>   script = "%s%s" % (script, SUFFIX)
<jcater>   print "Creating %s" % os.path.join(scriptdir, script)
<jcater>   file = open(os.path.join(scriptdir, script),'w')
<jcater>   file.write(cvsbase % py)
<jcater> ok, at this point
<jcater> cvsbase has had all %(PYTHON*)s stuff expanded out
<jcater> but the %s doesn't get expanded
<jcater> until this last line I pasted
<jcater> so it gets replaced with whatever's in "py"
<Arturas> ah
<Arturas> understood
<Arturas> and what is $@ ?
<jcater> that's a bash construct
<jcater> basically that's passing all command line parameters unchanged to the python binary
<jcater> so if I do
<lupo> Arturas: a shortcut for $1 $2 $3 ... -> all parameters
<jcater> gfcvs test 1 2 3
<jcater> it ends up calling:  python2.1 /path/to/GFClient.py test 1 2 3
<Arturas> aha
<Arturas> understood :)
<Arturas> thank you :)
<jamest> Arturas: you're trying to make this work under windows?
<Arturas> tried...
<Arturas> now i'm thinking how to kick windows
<Arturas> :)
<Arturas> i was hoping to commit today
<Arturas> now i need a bit more thinking
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<jamest> that's going to be a bugger
<btami_> hi
Nick change: btami_ -> btami
<jamest> as windows .bat files don't rate as a poor dumb cousin to a unix shell
<jamest> :)
<Arturas> hi btami
<Arturas> jamest: what is bugger?
<btami> hi Arturas
<Arturas> (cheeseburger ?)
<Arturas> ah
<Arturas> hm
<Arturas> jamest
<Arturas> hrrr
<Arturas> bugger
Action: Arturas is out of words
<Arturas> :)
<btami> bugger is something like asshole ?
<lupo> i can assure you that gnue _needs_ to run on windows
<jcater> there's a difference betewen gnue needing to run on windows
<jcater> and our cvs development handy-dandy tool needing to run there
<jcater> not that I mind Arturas trying to get it to work there
<Arturas> btami:
<Arturas> bugger
<Arturas>        n : someone who engages in anal copulation (especially a male
<Arturas>            who engages in anal copulation with another male) [syn: {sodomite},
<Arturas>             {sodomist}, {sod}]
<Arturas> --
<btami> :)
<Arturas> i'm trying to get setup-cvs to run on windows, because it would be a lot easier to check gnue there
<Arturas> how it runs and etc.
<btami> why not just setup.py install for all tools?
<jamest> the def I was implying
<jamest> 3 : a small or annoying thing <put down my keys and now I can't find the buggers> 
<lupo> bugger = something like "pain in the ass"?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> it will be a pain in the ass
<Arturas> Debians' dict didn't offer me 3rd explaining (perhaps it knew the theme was windows :)
<lupo> lol
<btami> jcater: please put "gnue.common.events" into common.setup.py
<btami> btw :)
<jcater> btami: ok
<jamest> :)
<jamest> i got the def from www.m-w.com
<jcater> if anyone's interested
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/curses-login.png
<Arturas> fine :) :)
<Arturas> incredible :)
<btami> is there any chance to run GNUe on a good old DOS box ?
<jcater> btami: committed
<btami> thanks
<jcater> btami: depends on whether python2.1 and the database driver will compile
<jcater> but it's certainly possible
<jcater> not something I'm going to chase after
<jcater> but certainly possible :)
<btami> ok
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Action: Arturas going to sleep :)
<Arturas> bye
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<StyXman> hi all
<StyXman> jcater: just to know, what's that cursing thing in common about?
<jcater> cursing == GNUe's curses widget toolset
<StyXman> curses as in ncurses?
<jamest> yes
<jamest> it's the highly modified code originally based upon nstti
<StyXman> and why in common?
<jcater> because it's common to our code
<jamest> there isn't a curses library out there at the moment that does what we require or that is maintained
<jamest> we had this on seperate cvs server out of main code base but that made it harder to get fixes into it
<StyXman> ah, ok.
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<ariel_> i need some help with debian
<ariel_> i did succesfully apt-get install for
<ariel_> gnue-common
<ariel_> gnue-forms
<ariel_> gnue-designer
<ariel_> but i can't do for
<ariel_> gnue-reports
<jcater> we have only packaged the more mature tools at this point (the 3 you mentioned)
<jcater> we don't have debs of gnue-reports, gnue-appserver, or gnue-navigator at the moment
<jcater> :(
<ariel_> thx
<ariel_> jcater: this is not related to our, but i alsso cannot install cervisia
<jcater> I'm not familiar with cervisia
<ariel_> gui frontend to cvs
<ariel_> based on kde
<ariel_> it gave me some conflicts with kdelibs3
<ariel_> but now i'm trying again and it seems to work
<ariel_> may be they have resolved the conflict
<jcater> cool
<ariel_> no i still get the same problem:
<ariel_> cervisia depends on kdelibs3
<ariel_> kdelibs3 depends on kdelibs3-bin
<jcater> are you currently running kde 3.0.x?
<ariel_> kdelibs3-bin tryes to overwrite a file belonging also to kdelibs-data
<ariel_> no i run  gnome2
<ariel_> can i try apt-get remove kdelib-data? (it seems me unwise)
<jcater> I don't know
<ariel_> there is some way to inform the people at debian?
<nickr> haha
Action: ariel_ , the poor debian newbie, thinks nickr is a bit sarcastic
<nickr> hehe
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<nickr> hoohoo
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<ariel_> jcater: a jump on #debian and.. resolved
<jcater> cool
<jcater> sorry I couldn;t help much
<Mr_You> hello
<ariel_> dpkg -i --force-overwrote
<nickr> #debian actually helped you?
<nickr> incredible.
<ariel_> dpkg -i --force-overwrite
<nickr> Its like an X-Files episode
<Mr_You> http://www.vitalit.com/software/bofhd/
Action: ariel_ is away: (ronf)
<jamest> nickr: or twilight zone
<nickr> indeed
<nickr> dee dee deedee
<jamest> musta been some space/time dimensional rift
<nickr> the black whole at the center of a donut.
Action: Mr_You laughs at himself.
<Mr_You> I put it up or sell this morning and an ad hour+half ago, 31 views so far
<Mr_You> http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=80241
<Mr_You> for those not familiar its sort of an experiment to see how little GPL code can generate income ;-)
<Mr_You> comments are appreciated :-)
<nickr> maybe you should note that 'unencumbered source is included' with the purchase
<nickr> or rather
<nickr> GPL encumbered
<Mr_You> yeah I was just about to type that up and I couldn't think of a good line.
<Mr_You> it was late last night ;-)  I'll add something to purchase page.
<Mr_You> well both pages
<nickr> yea
<Mr_You> GPL licensed source code included!
<Mr_You> hows that?
<nickr> needs more bangs
<Mr_You> hehe
<Mr_You> I added one just for you mentioning it.
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> what? no giant, shiny, graphical bang?
<Mr_You> updated
<Mr_You> gotta get my cert updated :-(
<Mr_You> gotta run
<Mr_You> bblm
<Mr_You> will save msgs if anyone pops in
Action: Mr_You &
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<siesel> hi
<chillywilly> yo
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<KeithJagrs> hello
<chillywilly> hallo
<KeithJagrs> hello cw
<KeithJagrs> where are you located?
<chillywilly> on planet earth ;)
<KeithJagrs> cool
<chillywilly> need me to be a little more specific?
<KeithJagrs> well, yes
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> WI, USA
<KeithJagrs> WI?
<KeithJagrs> hmm
<KeithJagrs> is that wayoming?
<KeithJagrs> (spell?)
<KeithJagrs> west indiana?
<KeithJagrs> heheh
<KeithJagrs> hmm
<jcater> Cheese!
<KeithJagrs> Wild Illinois?
<jcater> Beer!
<chillywilly> KeithJagrs: hell no
<KeithJagrs> I'll be back
<chillywilly> Wisconsin
Action: jcater gave two hints :)
<KeithJagrs> aaah
<chillywilly> jcater: a winning combination ;)
<KeithJagrs> cool
Nick change: KeithJagrs -> KeithK_away
Action: chillywilly is no FIB ;)
<chillywilly> damn flat landers
<chillywilly> WI si IL's playground ;)
<chillywilly> s/si/is/
<chillywilly> and da bears suck
<chillywilly> Favre put the smack down on 'em last Monday night
<ajmitch> greetings
<chillywilly> and saltations
<chillywilly> salutations
<chillywilly> freakin kbd
<Mr_You> re
<Mr_You> bbl
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<crazymike> ?
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<KeithJagrs> hello again
<derek> hello
<chillywilly> derek: hey
<KeithJagrs> are there plans for gnue to serve workflow?
<KeithJagrs> hmmm
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<derek> yes
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<derek> things not much listed but we plan on 
<derek> workflow
<derek> groupware
<derek> knowledge management
<KeithJagrs> great!
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<KeithJagrs> what about using openflow
<KeithJagrs> or another ongoing project
<derek> we are ALL FOR REUSING
<derek> or merging with things
<derek> example we are working with axisgw and phpgw on groupware stuff
<derek> we just dont want to spread too thin
<derek> and why we havent jumped into these areas yet
<KeithJagrs> thats good
<derek> hoping a project will show up
<KeithJagrs> agree
Action: derek is examing gnukose for FSF currently for knowledge management
<ajmitch> hi
<derek> hopefully it will be something that can become part of GNU as well as GNUE
<KeithJagrs> sounds very interesting
<KeithJagrs> ajmitch: hi
<KeithJagrs> never heard of gnukose
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<dtm> derek: hey i have the line on something for ya too
<derek> ok
Action: dtm hax0rs lex
<dtm> derek: the university lex attended (lex from axisgw team) developed a knowledge management system that they want us to take up, so they can get support off their backs
<derek> im evaluating gnukose for FSF
<derek> will university make theirs gpl?
<derek> if so i can evaluate as well
<dtm> analyzing...
<dtm> its web site mentions public domain.  we'll see...
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<dtm> it talks about the Library at Alexandria and the Library of Congress, so you know it's leet
<dtm> it's called Phronesis, Grek for "wisdom"
<dtm> s/Grek/Greek/
<dtm> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.mty.itesm.mx/die/ddre/transferencia/Transferencia45/eli-03.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dphronesis%2Bmonterrey%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG
<dtm> i'm pretty sure that's it
<dtm> it's definately Mexican
<dtm> hey, tell GNU to use the Google Appliance!  ;)  haha
<chillywilly> wb crazymike
<dtm> running on a Netapp!
<dtm> crazymike: werd
<dtm> chillywilly: sup
<crazymike> thank you
<crazymike> it is good to be back
<chillywilly> dtm: sup g
<chillywilly> crazymike: your running 2.4.19?
<crazymike> yep
<dtm> derek: must a GNU project be under GPL/LGPL?  what about GPL compatible according to www.gnu.org?
<crazymike> chillywilly: I shole am
<chillywilly> did eth1 come up by itself this time?
<crazymike> no
<crazymike> it is eth0
<crazymike> thats why
<ajmitch> hi chillywilly, crazymike
<chillywilly> HEH
<crazymike> i had to switch it
<crazymike> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> dtm: afaik 'sophia' is greek for wisdom ;)
<dtm> ajmitch: interesting
<chillywilly> yep
<dtm> those silly Greeks!
<chillywilly> philosophy
Action: dtm watched "Yanni: Tribute" last night
<chillywilly> comes from 2 wors
<chillywilly> one is sophia
<dtm> 31337
<chillywilly> the other is somehting else and it mena study
<chillywilly> means
<chillywilly> philosophy is the study of wisdom
<chillywilly> hey I did learn me something afterall ;)
<chillywilly> philo is study, iirc
<chillywilly> sophia is wisdom
<dtm> how appropriate
<chillywilly> something like that
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> philosphy is the love of wisdom
<chillywilly> not study
<dtm> You tried.
<dtm> That's what counts.
<dtm> chillywilly: must a GNU project be under GPL/LGPL?  what about GPL compatible according to www.gnu.org?
<chillywilly> not sure
<KeithJagrs> derek:
<chillywilly> philo == love, sophia == wisdom...there that's the ticket ;)
<KeithJagrs> I am inthe gnukose site
<KeithJagrs> have you discarded zope or plone, etc?
<jcater> what's the topic of conversation?
<chillywilly> this is cool
<chillywilly> Based upon what has been described above, our working definition of philosophy will look something like the following:
<chillywilly> PHILOSOPHY = "A critical examination of reality characterized by rational inquiry that aims at the Truth for the sake of attaining wisdom."
<chillywilly> man I wish I could've taken philosophy of religion...that would've been a fun course
<jcater> lots of reading
<ajmitch> doubtful
<jcater> lots and lots of reading
Action: jcater knows :)
<ajmitch> at a secular university, they generally attack religion :)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: why?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: bah, not my philosophy proff he was awesome
<ajmitch> chillywilly: because that's what a lot of universities are like :)
Action: chillywilly took jst about every philosphy course at MSOE except philosophy of religion
<chillywilly> it didn't fit my schedule the last quarter
<chillywilly> conflicted with some stupid class I had to take
<ajmitch> from what i know, at the uni i'm at they use philosophy to 'prove' that all faith is a load of ****
Action: jcater thinks that really depends on the professors
<derek> zope is not workflow
<chillywilly> ajmitch: isn't that sorta retarded for a uni named after a saint?
<derek> dtm: no a gnu project need not be under the GPL or LGPL but generally its HIGHLY preferred
<ajmitch> chillywilly: uhh, university of otago is not :)
<chillywilly> oh yea that's the dorm you're in
<ajmitch> yup
<chillywilly> my bad
<chillywilly> ajmitch: yea, this is the normal plato-worshipping philosopher's take that faith is crap ;)
<chillywilly> my proff was a little more open minded then that ;)
<chillywilly> you know what I find funny is how these philosophers then go and start their own gnostic religion anyway ;)
<chillywilly> go figure :)
<dtm> derek: but it must be GPL compatible, right/
<dtm> ajmitch: by "faith", do you mean "belief in God"?
<KeithJagrs>  <derek> zope is not workflow
<KeithJagrs> i know 
<KeithJagrs> but is CMS
<KeithJagrs> and on top of it is plone and openflow
<ajmitch> dtm: belief in any higher power :)
<dtm> oic
Action: chillywilly meant God
<ajmitch> chillywilly: yes, but they go beyond that here :)
<chillywilly> of course ;)
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--- Fri Oct 11 2002