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<chillywilly> hi reinhard
<reinhard> good morning
<furiousbl> I'm sorry if this is off topic, but can someone recommend a light weight erp that will run on NT? I've decided not to use gnuenterprise because a) I have no linux experience/skills , b) my company is very small (8 employees).
<ajmitch> GNUe runs on NT :)
<furiousbl> the app server too?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> ask reinhard about appserver stuff
<reinhard> which appserver?
<reinhard> do we have an appserver?
<reinhard> (j/k)
<furiousbl> from the faq : "The GNUe Application Server works natively on Mac OS X. It does not currently work on Windows, but support is anticipated. "
<furiousbl> i take it the faq is out of date ? :)
<reinhard> probably
<reinhard> i have to talk to psu about the web page
<reinhard> much of it is out of date wrt appserver
<reinhard> because there's much on the web page that still refers to GEAS (v1)
<furiousbl> what version is it at now?
<reinhard> to make clear: it's not psu's _fault_, but he's the one that can fix it :)
<reinhard> furiousbl: what we call GEAS (v1) is an application server that we got contributed
<reinhard> however after some time of hacking in that code we decided to rewrite from scratch
<reinhard> which we now call "appserver" to have a clear distinction
<furiousbl> i c!
<furiousbl> sorry if I sound a bit thick, I'm quite by the sheer size/scale of the project
<furiousbl> i wish there was an idiots guide to gnuenterprise (I might even write one if I ever get it up and running)
<furiousbl> to make sure i've got this right, to get gnuenterpise running on NT, i need :
<furiousbl> -oracle db
<furiousbl> -gnu enterprise tools
<furiousbl> - one or more gnuenterprise packages
<furiousbl> am I missing something?
<reinhard> um....
<reinhard> i think we have to tell you that there are no gnuenterprise packages yet...
<reinhard> well to be precise there are some qite usable samples
<furiousbl> lol... 'scuse me while I go and cry
<reinhard> but if you are after "accounting" or "invoicing" then you'd have to wait
<reinhard> there are some ready to use apps that are managed under the "roof" of the gnuenterprise meta project
<reinhard> like nola or acclite
<reinhard> but there are no "gnuenterprise packages" yet
<furiousbl> i c
<furiousbl> so to install an app like nola or acclite, i still need gnuenterprise tools and oracle?
<reinhard> i think no
<reinhard> however i really don't know them
<furiousbl> ok, thanks for your help reinhard
<reinhard> maybe somebody else can help here??
<furiousbl> looks like it's back to the drawing board :)
<reinhard> sorry, we're working on it :)
<furiousbl> don't apologise! what are my other options? shell out $$$$$ to sap or peoplesoft? no thanks
<furiousbl> i hope one day my business is bg enought o justify running gnuenterprise :)
<reinhard> well
<reinhard> one of the goals of gnuenterprise is to fit even the smalles business
<ajmitch> oracle is certainly not a requirement, thankfully! :)
<ajmitch> it is just one of the supported databases
<furiousbl> sorry, i was thinking of compiere
<furiousbl> out of curiosity, if there are no packags, who uses gnuenterprise at the moment? people who write their own packages?
<ajmitch> yeah, custom systems that use forms & reports
<furiousbl> i found nola, but I can't find a homepage for acclite.. does anyone have a url please?
<ajmitch> nope, not yet :)
<furiousbl> let me guess... acclite is in alpha or pre-releaset oo right?
<ajmitch> acclite is nola with patches & extra stuff :)
<ajmitch> afaik
<furiousbl> lol... i give up. quickbooks, here i come! (j/k)
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<siesel> hi all
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<ariel_> hi siesel
<ariel_> dom you know if someone will be in Frankfurt BEFORE the 31th?
<ariel_> reinhard: ?
<ariel_> do you know if someone will be in Frankfurt BEFORE the 31th?
<siesel> ariel_: possibly reinhard will. 
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<siesel> but I'm not shure. /me will be heading to FRA not until 31th early morning :)+
<ariel_> because may be i found a flight on 30th evening, so it will be nice to meet someone
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<siesel> I would like to go to frankfurt earlier, but then I have to find accomodation etc. -> $$$$$
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<reinhard> <reinhard> yes
<reinhard> <reinhard> i will be there starting from 30 noon
<reinhard> <reinhard> and will be at the expo 30 afternoon
<reinhard> <reinhard> help out at the fsf europe booth
<reinhard> <reinhard> well this actually is true for me and johannes
<reinhard> this didn't get through as i lost connection
<reinhard> so ariel_ it would be nice to meet you
<reinhard> possibly we will also meet other people from fsf europe
<reinhard> which could be interesting for you, too :)
<ariel_> reinhard: thank you, i'm going to meet my travel agent this afternoon after work, so tomorrow 
<ariel_> i can be more precise if i will came and when
<reinhard> ok
<ariel_> can someone point to a working sample of report please?
<ariel_> it seems that out:xmlns is no more recognized
<ariel_> so how namespace is passed on?
<ariel_> GRFilter tries to concatenate namespace + ":" + filter
<ariel_> but namespace is not defined
<siesel> namespace should be defined int the file:  <layout xmlns:out="GNUe:Reports:SimpleTabulation">
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<fr2ty> My uncle, who is a goldsmith (~ 18 employees )is looking for an application to calculate material and human work expenditure. Could GNUe help him? I read the GNUe pages, but I am still not sure what to tell him. Any comment appreciated.
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<jamest> fr2ty: we have no prepackaged app to do this
<jamest> but i feel the tools would be capable of doing it
<fr2ty> jamest: so i will follow the channel/site/and lists
<fr2ty> is there information designed for non-tech people already available? When do you expect the project to address such an audience?
<jamest> fr2ty: are you a developer or end user?
<fr2ty> end user
<fr2ty> this might not be the perfect channel for such questions anyway...
<jamest> it's the perfect channel for dang near anything you care to ask
<jamest> :)
<fr2ty> :-)
<jamest> this is a great way to get gnue info but people here are helpful whenever then can be about anything
<jamest> as for when....
<jamest> if gnue is anything it's slow moving with wild spurts of activity
<jamest> so I can't really give a timeline 
<fr2ty> Which mailing list would serve me best? 
<fr2ty> I don't mind following developer's discussions, I am pretty much interested in the interiors of such applications, although my programming skills are, hmmm, let's say,basic. (not the interpreter:-)
<fr2ty> I will dld and explore the GNUe tools, let's see what I can do. Thank you James, I  will come back some time later. Happy coding
<jamest> um
<fr2ty> yep?
<jamest> gnue@gnu.org would be best I think
<jamest> the developer list is ok too
<jamest> but IRC is probably a best bet for help
<jamest> as for the tools
<fr2ty> thx, I will subscribe to it. 
<jamest> i would play with gnue-designer and gnue-forms
<jamest> if you have a database installed
<fr2ty> good advice,  I will do that in the next few days and come back. Thank you.
<jamest> no prob
<fr2ty> mysql for example?
<jamest> should work fine
<fr2ty> ok
<jamest> we support lots of databases
<fr2ty> thx and out :-)
<jamest> we would not recommend mysql for biz data though
<jamest> s/we/a fair number of us in the channel
<fr2ty> yes, but it should work for my test cases. Now I have a really good point to start. Thank you.
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<reinhard> http://www.dell.ca/ca/en/bsd/products/minicat_en_precn_530.htm
<reinhard> look what runs under the title "Microsoft Operating System"
<reinhard> :)
<derek> reinhard: you didnt read the breaking news today?
<derek> microsoft bought redhat in a stock swap
<derek> so technically it is an MS operating system, they then announced a deal with dell and intel for server distribution
<derek> j/k
<reinhard> derek: rofl
<derek> its not funny in the sense i expect to read that in the news someday :(
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<dtm> heheheh
<dtm> derek: dude, M$ has given $1B buyout offers to companies like Intuit.  i wonder if they've got a $1B Tux-flavored ace in the hole.
<dtm> unlike with those proprietary foolz like Intuit, it's not like they could threaten to destroy them in the marketplace.
<dtm> i recall the surfacing of a corporate memo from M$ to Intuit that said basically "if you refuse, just think of what we'll do to you in the marketplace with that $1B"
<dtm> as a threat
<dtm> i think that ended up in court iirc
<derek> well the big thing is there isnt much 'IP' to be had with Linux companies
<derek> in sense that redhats biggest asset is GPL
<dtm> heheh
<derek> and as you say they cant really threaten to put them under any more than they already are
<dtm> wow it would be amazing if somehow that protected them from M$ buyout, and kept redhat honest, almost like blood over the door on passover.
<derek> i.e. linux is enemy number one to them
<dtm> yeah
<dtm> what are they gonna do?  give away Windows servers?
<dtm> they do to some strategic customers, but not in masses like with IE
<derek> likely i would suspect that m$ buyout will be of someone like xandros
<derek> the people (investors) behind ximian/xandros and friends (LGP)
<derek> are shady money grubbers with no care for the validity of linux
<derek> if m$ waved the big dollars at them they would sell 
<derek> the thing is even if they did i dont know what damage it really would do in sense that code is GPL
<derek> though they would own the copyright of anything produced there
<derek> which would allow them to use in own products
<derek> at this point it might be cheaper for m$ to buy
<dtm> whoa.
<dtm> i had no idea.
<derek> SuSE, RedHat and Mandrake
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<derek> and simply shut them down
<dtm> so M$ could buy Ximian's parent and... yeah.  
<derek> i.e. at a billion a piece
<dtm> well sure  :)
<derek> 3 billion to shut down linux distribution and support channels should sound like a smoking deal to them :)
<dtm> i bet you there's a M$ war room somewhere wher ethey've played that out
Action: derek is away: work
<dtm> actually i wonder why they haven't done it.
<dtm> they do that stuff all the time.
<dtm> given M$'s paranoid-narcissistic perosnality, the only thing they could do with em is shut em down.  
<dtm> they're nothing but "competition"
<dtm> "threat"
<dtm> "enemy"
<dtm> they're of no use in operation.
<dtm> drivers, OS, personnel, marketing, and customer base.  all alien.
<dtm> heh and the IP.
<dtm> the copyrights owned by those companies are a way to poison or subvert the rest of the community
<dtm> geez, seriously, why dont they do this?
<dtm> they MUST have thought of this.
<dtm> if they took over ownership of copyrights held by SuSE or redhat or Ximian over core drivers, libraries, or kernel patches, they could some damage.
<dtm> well, the public would fork the older versions.
<dtm> as they stand today.
<dtm> so we'd lose some manpower, until the good employees quit a la Bero formerly of Redhat
<dtm> and form a new company  :>
<dtm> or go somewhere and continue to hax0r at least in spare time
<dtm> so unlike with a proprietary competitor, they could spend $1B apiece just to set us back a few years
<dtm> i wonder why they dont do that with key smaller companies like Wine or Ximian.  like illegal copying, that stuff does proliferate the use of M$ software which benefits M$ indirectly.
<dtm> i heard a statistic that 80% of all illegal copying ends up being profitable to the company, because it increases mindshare and skill
<dtm> whereas otherwise they would have used a competitor, something $0, or nothing at all
<dtm> which means that most illegal copiers are believed to have not been likely to buy software anyhow
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<reinhard> re M$ could buy redhat, suse and mandrake and could shut down linux distribution worldwide
<reinhard> don't forget there's debian
<reinhard> one of the main reasons why i like debian is they can't be bought by noone :)
<jcater> reinhard: I agree
<jcater> that's part of my reasoning too
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<nickr> dtm: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-07-22&res=l
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<Mr_You> re
<nickr> rehi
<Mr_You> hi
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<revDeke> esands: you around
<revDeke> i tried to download the openMFG stuff
<revDeke> and they made me registrer (so i did fictiously)
<revDeke> and then still i had to request a download (So i did)
<revDeke> here was the response after 48 hours
<revDeke> We're sorry, we are not able to offer you a free download of the OpenMFG Client at this time.
<revDeke> nothing more
<revDeke> nothing less just that one line
<revDeke> pretty sad
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<siesel> hi.
<revDeke> i think our community is about 20 months from destruction :(
<revDeke> i think the coporate america understands that it must release source code to thrive
<revDeke> in essensce 'open source' will kill the free software community likely within the next 2 years
<revDeke> :(
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<revDeke> companies are reading and understanding licenses which is good
<revDeke> but they are not understanding community and thus the problem
<revDeke> an example would i think Xandros 
Action: revDeke puts flame suit on
<revDeke> they are releasing a distribution just like the others
<revDeke> only they are doing the SuSE model
<revDeke> i.e. dont write any of YOUR stuff as Free Software
<revDeke> bundle as much non free software as possible
<revDeke> and make people buy the product and hard for them to get the source
<revDeke> of course this is perfectly legal under the licenses and they are meeting all obligations
<revDeke> but they are seriously impeding what the community brings them :(
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<revDeke> anyhow just an observation from the tower as i see news that lotus will be making an outlook replacement that will be 'open source'
<psu> Yeah
<psu> it took me 2 months at my current workplace to get e-mail
<psu> Despite the fact that Outlook was installed on my PC, couldn't use it as 
<psu> we had run out of M$ Exchange (server) user licenses
<jamest> ahhhh
<jamest> so that meant you had 2 wonderful virus free months at work.
<psu> to be fair, we have a pretty good virus scanner sitting on the firewall
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<psu> but that costs us £££ as well, natch
Action: psu wonders if the Mericans' IRC clients can cope with the £ character
<Isomer> mine can
<Isomer> I'm not american
<jcater> with what?
<Isomer> but I'm not british either :)
<psu> Isomer: when did NZ switch to dollars, anyway?
<Isomer> er
<Isomer> far before I was born
<Isomer> 1960's?
<jamest> i see a  £
Action: psu tends to use $$ signs in my Kernel Cousins source as my personal "TO DO" marker as I work
<psu> which works reasonably well on a free s/w project
<Isomer> heh
Action: Isomer tends to use "FIXME"
<psu> except when we get into bash shell scripting
<Isomer> rofl
<revDeke> £££ yip
<Isomer> hmm
<Isomer> approx 1960-1970ish
<esands> revDeke: Yeah I couldn't see where to download openmfg either. Bit misleading.
<Isomer> what is openmfg
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<Isomer> and uh, if you can't d/l it, surely it's not that open?
<esands> Another one of these buzzy word, "OS but not really" applications.  openmfg.org.
<esands> The feel I got was that it was 'open source' but only to their customers.  Contra to the statements on their website.  Since most big erp provide source to customers openmfg just seems silly
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<psu> esands: yep. Typically you'll get schemas, if nothing else
<ajmitch> hello
<psu> hi ajmitch
<psu> heh Sky News is having breaking news overload
<psu> UK: Cabinet resignation, TV rape story World: Moscow theatre, JFK Aeroflot plane, Washington sniper
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<siesel> Welcome Daniel
<psu> hi chillywilly
<psu> nite all ;-)
<siesel> night psu
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<chillywilly> hey
<ajmitch> hello chillywilly
<jcater> hi chillywilly, ajmitch
<chillywilly> hi jc
<jcater> how's life up north, down under
<chillywilly> ajmitch: 
<ajmitch> hello jcater, how are you?
Action: jcater has the flu
<chillywilly> it's ok
<ajmitch> oh :(
Action: chillywilly was feeling feverish last night
<chillywilly> but I got some sleep and feel better now
<ajmitch> so long as you don't pass it onto me
<jcater> and I'm at work :-/
<chillywilly> :-(
<chillywilly> jcater: you tell them I said you could take the rest of the day off ;)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: that would be come trick
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<siesel> Mr_You: you here?
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<jamest>  /msg jcater wow
<jamest> whoops
<chillywilly> good job
Action: jamest is looking at some krack based koding he did when he was younger
<jcater>  /msg jamest I told you he's show his face again
<jamest>  /msg jcater damn, where do I send the 5 bucks
<jcater>  /msg jamest the society for trout rights
<chillywilly> the trouts have no rights they are used as mere weapons
Action: jcater chants the SFTR anthem: "Make Fish Fry, Not War!!!"
<jcater> oh, wait... I think they go by Society for Love and Aquatic Peace
<jamest> rofl
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<chillywilly> that's pretty cool how you committed a conflict jamest
<Isomer> heh
<jamest> i worked hard for it
<chillywilly> :)
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<jcater> for your viewing pleasure.....
<jcater>  http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/forms-greyed.png
<esands> Is it possible to click though an item on that list somehow to a master detail screen?
<jcater> ?
<jcater> you could have a detail block linked to a multi-row block like that
<jcater> so that when one of the rows is selected
<jcater> the detail block brings all the details for that record up
<esands> Say your've got a list of items with 40 fields, but you want to display 3 of them to select the correct item to edit
<esands> Excellent
<jcater> my picture was showing the greyed out lower records, though :)
<esands> Oh
<esands> What about the last blank un-greyed record?
<jcater> I did an insert record there
<jcater> so that's actually a record
<ajmitch> hello sirs
<Isomer> evenin'
<ajmitch> veyr nice, jcater-san
<esands> afternoon isn't it?
<ajmitch> or morning, if one got up late :)
<esands>  jcater: Have you got the gfd for that screen
<jcater> jcater-san?
<jcater> more like jcater-sans-sleep
<ajmitch> heh
<jcater> esands: gnue/forms/samples/zipcode/zipcode.gfd
Action: jcater must get some rest now
<jcater> I have to get over this damn flu
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<chillywilly> man carter is gone ;)
Action: chillywilly sees mdupont's little booboo on the gnue list
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<jcater> uggh
<jcater> can't sleep
<jcater> anyone know how I can take a file
<jcater> and output non-duplicate lines
<jcater> ?
<jcater> via command line?
Action: jcater thought there was a sort option, but can't find it
<Isomer> uniq 
<Isomer> ?
<Isomer> sort | uniq ?
<ajmitch> sort -u
<ajmitch> ?
<ajmitch> uniq is probably best
<Isomer> ajmitch: only if he has gnu sort :)
<jcater> ah
<jcater> cool
<jcater> both work
<jcater> the "man sort" page for -u
<jcater> is very misleading
<ajmitch> Isomer: there shall be no other! ;)
<jcater> as that's not what I got from reading it
Action: jcater is a debian-ite all the way
<jcater> so I'm sure it's gnu sort :)
<Isomer> ajmitch: yeah, but when people ask, it's polite to give them a command that will work naerly everywhere
<Isomer> also, sort -u doesn't have quite the same flags as uniq
<Isomer> uniq can use -d etc
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<ajmitch> it's only jcater, don't need to be polite ;)
<jcater> Isomer: yeah, in his defense, he knows my setup :)
<jcater> but that is a good point in general
<esands> Here is an example uniq type "w | tail +3 | cut  -b19-35 | sort | uniq | wc -l"
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--- Thu Oct 24 2002