guile wrap a C guile wrapper iirc written by gnucash team for gnucash but other projects use it too (i think) Action: derek cant get gtoaster to work for non direct cd stuff it looked VERY promising in that i could drag and .ogg file and it woudl appear to conver to an audio file on the fly for me but it locks up burning no matter what i do how irritating i switched to precaching things and it actually locks there, so its not a 'burn' issue is a gtoaster conversion issue Action: ajmitch can burn at 4x!! as i appear to be able to make a data cd of .ogg/.mp3 directly jsut not letting gtoaster convert to cdaudio hmm i might just steal their command line syntax and try to do the conversion myself and then burn the wav files to cd and see if it works luckly i have lots and lots of free media or i might be pissed by now :) but cd 2 cd seems to go very nicely (knock on wood) got most of daughters cds archived so originals no longer have to take beatings Action: derek wishes dvds were easy to archive Action: ajmitch has a slow drive someone pass me some caffiene, please chillywilly: you here punk rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise. yea punk Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzZZZ rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. rossg_ (rossg@home.golder.org) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) hello all hi aj ajmitch: futureboy now back at +1300 relative to me :) Action: psu is back on good ol' GMT/UTC now strange to think that it could be monday here but saturday somewhere else somewhere else == not that far away from you, either as I would guess only a few mid-pacific islands would be -1200 yup very few reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. morning reinhard hi reinhard Action: psu had better get to work oh no, that's right, it's Sunday ;-) in which case, I'd better get to church psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("prayer == the orginal RPC ? ;-)"). SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-147.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) siesel (~chatzilla@port198.waldbroel.ndh.net) joined #gnuenterprise. morning siesel (~chatzilla@port198.waldbroel.ndh.net) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.8.9 [Mozilla rv:1.1/20020826]" rossg_ (rossg@home.golder.org) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (rossg@home.golder.org) joined #gnuenterprise. rossg_ (rossg@home.golder.org) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "The chance of forgetting something is directly proportional to ... to ... aehm ..." paq (~paq@202.155.120.221) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) lupo_ (~lupo@p50845D63.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi nobody here .. hm, psu: this is for KC european GNUe devel meeting is organized there will be a separate room, sponsored by reinhard jan and I will bring laptops with us and keep everyone on track via IRC (except we have no net access, which I doubt) I will try to make some dia drawings when it makes sense main topic will be appserver design I think that's the piece of GNUe which currently needs the most work When I understand appserver, I can try to write a crash-course for developers who want to use it, because it was an opaque technology to me lupo_ (~lupo@p50845D63.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit. cw-zzzZZZ (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) got netsplit. lupo_ (~lupo@p50845D63.dip.t-dialin.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. cw-zzzZZZ (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. lupo_ (~lupo@p50845D63.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1" mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: cw-zzzZZZ -> chillywilly Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. re hird Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: "later" Nick change: chillywilly -> cwChurch mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). paq (~paq@202.155.120.221) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away man big increase in debian developers and packages between 2.2 and 3.0 ninja (rossg@home.golder.org) left irc: "Client Exiting" its a monster! haha soon we'll have AI Debian programmers coding Debian hehe http://telemetrybox.org/tokyo/ cool that was rather well-written rm-away (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) rm-away (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: cwChurch -> chillywilly except they call it the GNU Public License Action: jcater missed that Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) got netsplit. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. dtm ([YdUiiN5Ft@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) got netsplit. dtm ([YdUiiN5Ft@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) got netsplit. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi Yurik hi woohoo cable modem finally available in my area just in time for my birthday, too No mention of GNU/Linux support, natch but that shouldn't be a problem Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: "later" Now, do I want 128kbit, 600kbit or 1Mbit probably should go with 1 considering how large the KCs are getting :) yeam 1Mb! 1Mb! hmm get the "fat" pipe yo 1Mbit - a fat pipe for a fat hacker ;-) sure :) spin it hwever you like ;) however, even siesel (jan@dial-213-168-98-11.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi siesel and all morning people Nitronium (tntlabs@modem-1248.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. Nitronium (tntlabs@modem-1248.monkey.dialup.pol.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. http://www.aikidofaq.com/history/story.html "Avoiding the concentrated fire of revolvers" hi andrew ugh, evil spam me? no sup aj best not ;-) i went to check my email & saw a lot of misdirected messages yes Mr_You stop spamming the channel already I grow tired of such tactics ;) someone screwed up freeciv's bug tracker ;) oh, ajmitch I saw the two towers movie trailer looks very cool man :) Action: chillywilly can't wait man i think FD list is well getting fun to watch ;) hehehe Action: ajmitch watches the catfights from afar tony show Action: chillywilly is not subscribed anymore what's going on? hrrrm, I can view tyhe archives via topica right? a number of people moving on, tony throwing a hissy fit, with ad hominem attacks left & right :) cool :P maybe he should treat ppl like human beings fitzix having a few strong words I dunno call me crazy ;) cool ;P hmm, according to my cable provider I need 64MB of RAM but they assume I am using Win98 or higher, which probably explains why ajmitch: can you point me at the archives or do you think I would need a topica account again? psu: HEH :P chillywilly: do what you feel is right :) Action: psu wonders if a 233 w/32MB or even the vey old 100 w/16 MB would be usable as a gateway/firewall psu: YES psu: DEFINTIELY assuming I stick to GNU/Linux psu: honestly, I'd recommend you try ipcop it's gnu/linux psu: my gateway/firewall is a P166 w/80MB RAM running Debian but you basically burn an ISO, put it in an old machine then reboot with my cable connection I use it here at home sounds good provides firewall, nat, dhcp and it's on a P133 w/32 Action: jcater was planning on moving it to my 486/33 w/16Mb soon as it's a waste of clock cycles and electricity Mr_You: trigger in case of javascript clients wouldn't be much more insecure then the javascript client itself. Action: jcater thinks the 486s consume less jcater: aren;t they steam-driven? ;-) Action: chillywilly found the FD list i can't use any that's too old chillywilly: url? Action: jcater is curious now :) since my ADSL modem uses USB to connect to the computer :) ah how far back should I go ? well, yes jcater: one sec this assumes their modem uses Ethernet jcater: http://www.topica.com/lists/FreeDevelopers chillywilly: thx the important trigger/business logic/consitence checking etc. should be done i appserver, in case of javascript AND python clients. bah jbailey (~jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. that' hrrrm? that's one big point of failure Action: siesel is speaking of 3-tier setup only. hey jbailey man there's a big gap from Jne to October er, June chillywilly: well yeah I suppose this month is when all the fn started? FD is dead, what do you expect? ;) yes Action: chillywilly thinks this will be fun to read Action: ajmitch didn't realise that the eGOVOS project was originally fitzix' before he got tangled up in FD Heya Andrew and everyone. what's this eGovOS.org thing? it was his while being tangled or something psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("nite - off to dream sweet dreams of cable modems"). who the heck is to-@freedevelopers.net? nm :P oh no Tim Rue ack yup, your friend heh, site "mitosis" wtf kinda crack is he smoking? ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl2-191.citlink.net) joined #gnuenterprise. and what's up with "don't infringe on our trademark" it's not even sed in commerce anyway er, used rm-away (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it" how do you have democracy with someone dictating to you some rules for you to "self organize"? Action: chillywilly wonders why he is even bothering to care hehe, davi is telling him how it is ;) lex_ (~alex@dup-200-64-174-3.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. Hey.... ne1 live? lex_: I can't parse that, sorry. :) wow, it is getting heated Barry went off heheh, that was a nice distraction ;) now back to the things that I have been putting off :( dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) hello mr borges ajmitch: lo farks.... im trying to build a deb for a lingerd patched apache... tough job ooh its like... i apt-get source, apt-get build dep, copy the lingerd patch to debian/patches and all the patching goes well .... until debian tries to apply a so called eapi patch, which breaks (gets rejected) cause of the aplinger patch yeah i've seen the likes of that :) id hate it if i had to go dl the apache source and have a non-standard installation.... remove the eapi patch? :) ajmitch: it looks important....not even in the patches directory... siesel (jan@dial-213-168-98-11.netcologne.de) left irc: "BitchX sucks" lex_: sounds like you have to hack the patch to fit the debian version of apache. Have fun. ;) buahaha Usually I don't find it too hard. Even if you don't know C its usually obvious how to join the pieces of string Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: "develop!" Action: jbailey is away: dinner anyone around? yup does trigger code get executed on clients and appserver or both? mostly clients, depends on the form not sure how well appserver does triggers at the moment, would have to ask siesel or reinhard ok, well siesel mentioned this: p the important trigger/business logic/consitence checking etc. should be done i appserver, in case of javascript AND python clients. right, so that'd be remote triggers in appserver there might be some stub code for calling that within the forms - i am not certain ok, well that solves a problem of javascript and python yup you had me worried :-P just requires a simple xml-rpc call, i guess hehe yeah as i said, it depends on the forms - most forms now have inline python triggers but hopefully they'll move away from that well, atleast there is some trigger flexibility with remote triggers yep i think i'd prefer remote triggers it seems the best route for the javascript client will be XMLRPC only. you seen the latest tablet PCs? nope nice compact units? microsoft demoed some to some linux developers and they were cheering hehe ;-) hehe mainly cause its leading edge technology basicly its a PC that can be used with a pen in tablet mode and be docked with a keyboard for laptop/desktop mode that's going to be sooo damn much overhead having remote-only triggers can you imagine the communications between client and server for every single keystroke, etc ouch? I dunno.. lets test it out? ;-) I'm not y'all can X has high overhead but people still use it ;-) yunno all my workstations at my callcenter also aren't dependent on a single X server either yeah hardware is cheap enough you don't need to but admins still use remote X sigh you miss my point of a SINGLE point of failure I will never run such a setup at NCS I've had way too much experience with stuff like that failing but to each his own :) so how do you propose high avaibility appserver? ;-) why do you assume I'd ever use appserver? I think it's great people are wanting it and writing it how are you providing HA database service? but that doesn't translate into me ever using it you think appserver will provide that? appserver is yet another point of contact how are you providing HA database service? Action: jcater uses Oracle with HA hardware and real-time backups Action: jcater is never down ok Action: jcater went the route of having middleware so eventually we'll have 2 classes of forms - those that are appserver-dependant, and those that are not and my HA went :) HA is spensive ajmitch: I'm talking about my custom stuff jcater: yeah I'm not thrilled about GNUe requiring an appserver for all the accounting stuff it really just comes down to flexibility not thrilled at all but that's not my call Mr_You: I've been there, done that like I said, to each his own well I want business logic. done what? middleware you mean HA middleware software right? I mean application servers basicly a hack ;-) ahh well you just use triggers for business logic? "just" ? yeah, I use triggers well triggers is a broad description GNUe Triggers ;-) bottom line is HA is expensive until PostgreSQL has production quality replication. which I think is in the works Action: jcater is curious as to how this deals with appserver, as appserver isn't exactly HA it doesn't, you just took the appserver conversation into single point of failure ;-) appserver could provide HA capabilities at some point more network traffic are you trying to convince me or yourself about application servers? nope I'm just making a point that HA is expensive and not normally available to small biz. my point is that, for a small business, you are adding yet one more layer that can, and at some point will, go wrong Action: jcater works for a small biz it's a statistics game the more layers you add that can go down the more often you go down in my mind until you have multiple database servers something like an application server the more you get annoyed with the crap software you're using :) isn't gaining you anyhing but rather costing you you aren't suppose to go down with HA I understand your point Action: jcater isn't discouraging anyone its a cost and risk vs benefit but there's a current trend toward middleware without looking at historical evidence and case studies for some, middleware makes sense but I see more times than not these days, "if it's not N-tier, how on earth am I supposed to use it" enterprises were successfully doing n-tier (and even 1-tier) long before n-tier but, I digress :) ...time for dinner you provide all your GNUe users with a single/shared database user account or it is "anonymous" or what? jbailey (~jbailey@CPE014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" appserver should only have object/business rles in it not "triggers" as in ui events imho that's just stupid wtf is HA? high availability triggers for forms is not necessarily methods/triggers for the appserver as I agree with jcater you don't want frelling rcp calls for every little ui interaction ajmitch: thanks er, rpc then again how often does a form hit the db? not on every single trigger does it? I don't think it works that way... lawrence (~lawrence@bsd01.necessity.org) joined #gnuenterprise. lawrence (~lawrence@bsd01.necessity.org) left irc: Remote closed the connection debUgo- (debUgo-@200.69.122.154) joined #gnuenterprise. ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl2-191.citlink.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection lex_ (~alex@dup-200-64-174-3.prodigy.net.mx) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) lex_ (~alex@dup-200-64-175-160.prodigy.net.mx) joined #gnuenterprise. debUgo- (debUgo-@200.69.122.154) left irc: jcater (~jcater@24.165.223.104) left irc: IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-246-75.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@219.88.247.104) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) dtm: you alive and up hi Nick change: derek -> xdemo muhahaha Nick change: xdemo -> derek chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" Nick change: lex_ -> lex_airport Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. --- Mon Oct 28 2002