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Action: ratmice and TSCHAK were thinking similarly on the gnue gnustep thing
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<ratmice> there is an existing python objc class that would need porting
<ajmitch> gnustep & gnue? what?
<ratmice> someone here mentioned it hours ago
<ajmitch> ah
<ratmice> that it would be nice
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<ratmice> the gnustep projects gorm and gnue form designer implement similar ideas
<ratmice> if gorm could be extended to output gnue-form xml definitions and applications that'd be nice..
<ratmice> it has it's own database library
<ratmice> doubt it supports as many things as gnue
<psu> us and Zope are the big boys when it comes to backend d/b support in python
<psu> If there's a pyfoo driver out there for any database
<psu> no matter how obscure
<psu> we've probably heard of it ;-)
Action: psu wonders if there is a py driver for native M$ Access
<psu> not that it really matters 
<ratmice> with odbc.. 
<psu> in that if you are having to use M$ Access w/GNUe
<psu> being stuck with odbc is probably the least of your problems...
<psu> Part of thr reason for seperating the GNUe d/b abstraction into GNUe Common
<psu> was so other projects could pick it up & re-use
<ratmice> but, I tought my mother how to use it over the phone... :)
<psu> if they felt so inclined
<ratmice> by that i mean make a database and some queries
<ratmice> looks like it should work if i can figure out this setup.py thing
<psu> ratmice: if you are using CVS, use the ./setup-cvs.py instead 
<psu> if tarball release, you are on right track
<ratmice> actually trying to compile pyobjc
Action: psu guesses we're not the only project to have a setup.py ;)
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<btami> good morning
<psu> hi btami
<btami> hi psu
<psu> work time for me, too
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<ratmice> well I got the release version of pyobjc compiled, cvs is more broken
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<reinhard> good morning ariel
<ariel_> gooood morning! :)
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<ariel_> derek: ?
<reinhard> -derek- TIME Wed Nov  6 05:22:13
<reinhard> ariel_: i guess he is asleep :)
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<reinhard> good morning jbailey
<jbailey> g'morning reinhard
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<ariel_> reinhard: i tought it was from east coast
<ariel_> sorry /he/it/
<reinhard> he is from arizona
<reinhard> which is quite in the west
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<jbailey> cw
<chillywilly> hello
<ariel_> reinhard: i'm workink on an analysys of the class repository, when i finish i will submit a document to feedback
<reinhard> ariel_: analysis?
<chillywilly> hey does syslog.conf execte everything that macthes?
<reinhard> you mean a proposal
<chillywilly> er, log to everything that matches the selector?
<reinhard> my understanding of analysis is to describe something that is already there
<chillywilly> I want iptables output to only go to one file
<chillywilly> not spewed on the screen and /var/log/messages like it does now
<chillywilly> although I added: kern.=info			/var/log/kernel.info, but it doesn't even seem to write there
<jbailey> Does appserver actually do anything yet?
<chillywilly> i have iptables log with log-level info
<chillywilly> sure
<reinhard> jbailey: yes
<reinhard> jbailey: it passes all data requests through to the database
<ariel_> more a note to discuss, it will contain a class diagram, how the classes are stored as tables, how a simple example (say base+baber+cardealer+..) will fill the tables.r
<reinhard> and has a very very basic function for calling methods
<reinhard> ariel_: great
<reinhard> ariel_: thanks for informing me, i just planned to start something similar
<ariel_> can you read openoffice format?
<reinhard> eahm...
<jbailey> reinhard: Okay, cool.  I just want to make sure if I go throught he effort of packaging it that it's not a waste of time.
<reinhard> i have a pc where i can :)
<reinhard> jbailey: not sure about that
<reinhard> it does nothing "useful" now
<reinhard> it's more like an empty box that can be filled afterwards
<reinhard> the only reason i see it would make sense to package it is
<jbailey> I'm not so concerned about the usefulness.  I just want it to somewhat work as advertised.
<reinhard> for "marketing" reasons
<chillywilly> nobody can help with syslogd?
<jbailey> chillywilly: No, sorry.
<reinhard> chillywilly: don't think so
<reinhard> chillywilly: only thing i found out is
<chillywilly> I think it will do all that match
<reinhard> that some messages can be turned off by dmesg command
<chillywilly> that's not what I want ;)
<chillywilly> I want to route some loggin elsewhere ;)
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> well the feeling i got from your question was anyway
<reinhard> that you have a much better understanding of syslogd than me :)
<reinhard> jbailey: it does work as advertised IMHO
<reinhard> as we advertised it as "very early proof of concept" :)
<jbailey> Excellent!
<chillywilly> brb
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<lupo> hi?
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<lupo> chillywilly!
<ColeMarcus> hi guys.  Anyone from germany, and knows if there is a localysed version of gnue availabale for germany, and that the output is accepted by the finance office
<chillywilly> lupo!
<lupo> ColeMarcus: there is the general possibility of translating gnue. as we have 3 german-speaking developers or project-watchers, this is quite possible
<lupo> concerning the output
<lupo> output which is useful for the tax office has to be generated by program packages, i.e. the general ledger, which are not yet implemented
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<lupo> ToyMan!
<ToyMan> howdy
<ColeMarcus> hmm and some simple   xml (or simmilar)output, i can render myself a document , print it out and give it to the finance office. Can this easily solved or do i need a huge time to deploy this
<lupo> no general problem
<jbailey> Nivada didn't legalize pot.  Weird.
<lupo> GNUe reports takes xml and transforms it to various other formats. You can always take the raw XML and do with it what you want.
<ColeMarcus> ;)
<lupo> jbailey: That discussion has been going on for months now in Germany - the Green party wants it legalized
<lupo> What a crap - they just want to do legally what they've done illegally for the last 20 years ;)
<lupo> Nothing against pot. but the discussion shows a lot of stupid points on the conservative side
<lupo> ColeMarcus: what do you want to use GNUe for?
Nick change: reinhard -> columbo
<jbailey> lupo: I just figured that Nivada of all of them would legalize first.  It's likely to be decriminalized here in Canada, and acc. to the news I just heard, doctors want to be able to prescribe heroin.
<columbo> lupo: where were you on oct 31 from 12 p.m. to 6 p.m.?
<jbailey> I forsee an increase in the number of university students studying to be pharmacists.
Nick change: columbo -> reinhard
<lupo> columbo: erm :(
<lupo> reinhard: i was in a traffic jam and afterwards i didn't find the hotel
<ColeMarcus> lupo well we have a small business , and well we need a fibu, and im looking around for a some linux solution instead of using lexware produkts ;)
<lupo> ColeMarcus: I see. Well, standard GNUe is pitily not yet ready to replace common FiBu or general ERP.
Action: lupo thinks that Frankfurt sucks
<ColeMarcus> hmmmm  :( 
<ColeMarcus> lupo you know any existing alternatives on linux that are still ready to use?
<lupo> There are still NOLA and SQL Ledger
<lupo> I plan to use NOLA for a medium business solution
<ColeMarcus> hmm ill have a look at NOLA ( while still keeping an eye on gnue;) perhaps for later use ).  SQL Ledger is  webbased only as i know, which i dont realy like 
<lupo> NOLA is also web based
<ColeMarcus> hmm
<lupo> So you see why GNUe exists :)
<ColeMarcus> well i doenst need very complex for my needs at the moment,  (just bill handling and a little bit controlling the money flow, what goes in and what goes out)
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<lupo> GuV?
<ColeMarcus> yes 
<lupo> reinhard: what has been going on?
<reinhard> lupo: you are subscribed to gnue-dev@gnu.org?
<lupo> reinhard: we should exchange cell phone numbers or something like that
<lupo> reinhard: nope, not subscribed. i sometimes browse the archives, though
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> browse the archives :)
<ColeMarcus> as said just a small business ;) ( i mean at the moment im doing it completly by hand but this well gets a little bit on my nervs ;)   )
<reinhard> look for "Halloween" :)
<lupo> okay, got it
<lupo> ColeMarcus: i see; i expect gnue to fullfill that requirements relatively rapid as soon as the tools are finished. dead line date: when it's ready...
<ra3vat> ColeMarcus:  http://www.hansaworld.com/  proprietary though
<lupo> reinhard: looks very interesting
<lupo> reminds me a very tiny bit of SAPs architecture
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<lupo> okay gotta go
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<lupo> have a date :)
<lupo> bye
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<jamest> good morning
<jamest> (for me anyway)
<jbailey> I'm having a good morning.
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<reinhard> hmm
<reinhard> anybody knows what i have to install to have java in galeon/mozilla
<reinhard> (debian woody of course) :)
<jamest> yeah
<jamest> hang on a sec
<jamest> i've got a proxy setup so this line may be a bit off but try adding to your /etc/apt/sources.list
<jamest> deb http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/devel/lang/java/blackdown.org/debian/ woody non-free
<jamest> then update and search for java
<jamest> you should then have an option like j2re1.3
<jamest> which is the java2 runtime
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> that means it is not in woody (natively)
<reinhard> thanks jamest
<jamest> i think the java 1 stuff is
<jamest> however i know some browser now require java2
<derek> hmmm lupo left
<derek> ariel_: did you have a question for me
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<jbailey> Anyone bored and want to explain to me how designer works? =)
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<jamest> jbailey: um what do you want to do?
<jamest> a real quick demo would be to run one of the wizards
<jamest> should be file->new->from wizard or somethig like that
<jamest> i can step you thru it but I'll be a bit choppy on responce times
<jamest> oooooo, that reminds me, cvs designer wizards are not happy at the moment
<jamest> i haven't looked into why as they haven't worked quite right since I returned to coding
Action: jamest is subtly implying that they were broke before I got back so I didn't do it :)
<dsmith> Well, I tried the .debs on www.gnuenterprise.org.  They want me to install a date package from somewhere.
<dsmith> Is the egenix-mx-base-2.0.4 the right package to get for that?
Action: jbailey is away: dr meeting
<jamest> dsmith: i thought it would autoload dependencies
<jamest> hmmm
<jamest> on woody you need
<jamest> python2.1-egenix-mxdatetime
<jamest> s/2.1/version of python installed
<dsmith> Hmm. I've got version 2.2 of python.
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<dsmith> Well...   I already have that.  Lets start over.
<dsmith> When I run gnue-designer, I get:
<dsmith>    This GNUe tool requires mxDateTime to be installed
<dsmith>    You can find the mxDateTime at 
<dsmith>    http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/mxDateTime.html
<dsmith> Is that because I have 2.2 of pythin installed?
<dsmith> Hmm. actually, I have 2.1 and 2.2 installed:
<dsmith> ii  python2.1          2.1.3-11           An interactive object-oriented scripting language (v
<dsmith> ii  python2.2          2.2.2-1            An interactive object-oriented scripting language (v
<dsmith> Cool. A quick "apt-get install python2.2-egenix-mxdatetime" and it seems to be working.
<dsmith> jamest: Thanks!
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<ariel_> derek: yes, but now i'm busy, just few minutes
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<ariel_> derek: i've seen the new documentation of schema (gsd)
<ariel_> we have a type 'key' (old auto) that is translated to a db specific type, may be serial, int4 or whatsoever
<ariel_> now a primary key has 2 functions:
<ariel_> 1) enforce uniqueness of rows
<ariel_> 2) be referenced by foreign keys of other databases
<ariel_> suppose i have a table with a field that references the primary key of another table
<ariel_> i want that field to have the same type of the pk in the other table
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<ariel_> if i declare it of type key may be this is translated to serial (that i don't want since it is only a foreign key)
<ariel_> i cannot declare it int4 (or similar) since i don't know how key is translated 
Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:39:12)
<ariel_> i think a solution is another type fkey that is automatically translated by the specific driver to whatever is appropriate for the specific db backend
<ariel_> what is your opinion?
<jbailey> jamest: It's just the part where I'm setting up the datasource that confused me.  and it spewed python errors all over the console.
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<jcater> ariel_: key != serial
<jcater> there should be an auto="" that makes it serial
<jcater> so in the primary table
<jcater> you might have
<jcater> mykey -->   type="key" auto="y"
<jcater> then in the referencing table
<jcater> pointerToKey --> type="key"
<jamest> jbailey: you have datasources in your connections.conf file?
<ariel_> jcater: thank you
<jamest> example
<jamest> [devel]
<jamest> comment = Math Devel Database
<jamest> provider = psycopg
<jamest> host = rdbms
<jamest> dbname = devel
<jbailey> jamest: God, no. =)
<ariel_> jcater: there is something broken in stdout.py
<jbailey> I'll config that up.
<jbailey> I should probably write a README for the Debian package, too.
<ariel_> if i run grcvs -f text -d out.txt foo.grd works fine
<jamest> jbailey: it probably should just fail though with error dumps
<ariel_> if i run grcvs -f text  foo.grd 
<jamest> s/should/shouldn't
<jcater> ariel_: yeah, we somehow broke that in the last week or two... still trying to pinpoint the problem
<jcater> :(
<ariel_> or grcvs -f text -d - foo.grd 
<ariel_> it breaks
<dsmith> jbailey: Yeah, the REAME would be nice.
<jcater> I'm reasonably sure jamest broke it
<ariel_> ok! waiting for the patch
Action: jcater thwaps jamest
<ariel_> farewell all
<ariel_> \quit "theater"
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<jamest> what did I break?
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<StyXman> hi alll
Action: jbailey is away: I'm busy
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<StyXman> GFForm's secondaryInit... is supposed to be run after the whole form is built?
<chillywilly> fricken spamassassin
<chillywilly> eating all the memory in my server
<nickr> spamd
<chillywilly> yea yea
<chillywilly> I still can bitch about it ;)
<chillywilly> I can't do shit right now until it is done
<jamest> StyXman: the init system runs in phases
<StyXman> jamest: yes, I almopst know about it..
<StyXman> so, when loadForm is run
<jamest> I'm pretty sure the objects are build during parsing
<nickr> chillywilly: rewrite it using alien technology
<jamest> then they start making passes thru the tree running the items in self._inits
<chillywilly> nickr: ok, but what race?
<StyXman> yes. loadForm parses and buidls the form structure, and then
<nickr> chillywilly: Alphans have the best computer technology, and great hair
<jamest> StyXman: ?
<jamest> and then?
<chillywilly> nickr: from centauri 4?
<nickr> Oh yeeea
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<btami> hi all
<nickr> btami
<chillywilly> sup
<btami> hello nickr, chillywilly
<jamest> StyXman: i'm not understanding the question
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<jamest> phaseInit is called by the parser after the objects have been built
<nickr> zup
<btami> jamest: i'm trying to hunt down one win32 forms bug, but i'v lost 
<btami> this comes with tabbed forms
<btami> when canging pages with mouse
<btami> changing
<btami> after that going to  the next record
<btami> the "content" doesn't refresh
<btami> i'v find something interesting in UIdriver.py in
<btami> notebookTabHandler
<btami> if i change 
<btami>         action = events.Event('requestPAGE',event.GetSelection())
<btami> to 
<btami>         action = events.Event('requestNEXTBLOCK',event.GetSelection())
<btami> changing tabs with mouse will be OK
<jamest> wha?
<btami> but PgDn/PgUp wrong
<jamest> ok, we probably need to look into the nextBlock code and find if there is a refresh the page switching code doesn't do on its own
<btami> but it's only on win32 IIRC
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> this is a long shot
<jamest> but try adding a Refresh() event on the page widget
Action: jamest has no working win32 boxes handy 
<btami> ok, i will try
<btami> i feel nobody likes to fix win32 bugs here :)
<jamest> well
<jamest> i started hammering thru the dcl bugs last nite
<jamest> so if they are in there I'll make as attempt to fix them
<btami> great!
<jamest> wether i like it or not :)
<btami> they are in there :)
<jamest> with patches right?
Action: jamest hopes and prays he won't have to spend time in windows debugging :)
<jcater> btami: it's not so much we like to fix non-Win32 bugs vs Win32
<jcater> it's that we don;t have win32 machines handy
<jcater> :(
<jamest> if anyone ones to send me a nice dual-athlon system with lots of HD, RAM, etc and WinXP
<btami> jamest: patches? bugreports!
<jamest> i'd be happy to wipe it, install debian, and convert my older system into a windows box :)
<jamest> actually, I do ahve access to a (currently) win98 machine at home, however over the years I'm allowed to touch it less and less
<jamest> wife seems to think I mess things up too much when I use it
Action: jamest sees installing gnue and cygwin and improving things not messing them up :
<btami> i think fixing win32 bugs is important, cose most of GNUe users
<btami> will use win clients
<btami> while M$ is so strong in offices
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<siesel> hi all
<ajmitch> hi
<chillywilly> hi hi
<siesel> ajmitch: how was the exam?
<ajmitch> which one?
<ajmitch> i got one in a few hours :)
<siesel> oh, I meant that.
<siesel> good luck :)
<ajmitch> thanks :)
Action: jbailey is back (gone 01:29:51)
<ajmitch> hey jbailey
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<jbailey> jamest: <jamest> provider = psycopg
<jbailey> jamest: Where are these options documented?
<jamest> jbailey: in the tech-ref or the developers guide in forms/doc
<jamest> you can also look in common/src/dbdrivers
<jamest> any dir in there that doesn't start with a _ is a valid option
<jbailey> 'k
<jbailey> Are all databases equally supported on Windows as well as Unix?
<siesel> almost all are supported on both operating systems.
<jamest> well
<jamest> i think if the python driver is avail on that platform it should just work
<jamest> and in windows any ODBC datasource sould work IIRC
<jbailey> Cool.
<jbailey> I want to make sure my example MySQL database will work on my bosses 'puter. =)
<jamest> um
<jbailey> There's an ODBC source for it, it shouldn't be a prob.
<jamest> I'm about to commit query by detail support
Action: ajmitch whispers to jamest - did he meantion _that_ word?
<jamest> which may funk up datasources ( i can't test them all :)
<jamest> so if you're going to demo don't cvs update right before he walks in
<jbailey> *lol*
<jbailey> I'm using the Debian packages, and I figured that I wouldn't update CVS until one of you told me "now's a good time"
<jbailey> Derek does that with me for the DCL package.
<ajmitch> i've been updating the pnet packages after nearly every decent sized commit :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: I don't have time to pay that much attention to GNUe.
<jamest> what!?!?!
<ajmitch> true :)
<jamest> GNUe = life = happiness = reason for existance
Action: ajmitch sees why his computer feels like a 486
<nickr> GNUe is like crack, then.
<ajmitch> one should not have a 1-2 sec delay in typing & having characters show up, on an athlon, right?
<jbailey> I think my 300 message per day mail volume is sufficient.
<jbailey> ajmitch: It depends what the athalon is otherwise occupied with.
<jbailey> if you're in a tight keyboard/display loop then no.
<jbailey> If you're running windows, then maybe.
<ajmitch> a little bit of disk activity slows the whole box right down :)
<jamest> If you're slurping down pr0n from 15 different sites on the net...yes
<jbailey> ajmitch: Turn on DMA.
<ajmitch> time for me to really leave & study now
<ajmitch> jbailey: i have DMA turned on
<jbailey> ajmitch: You said that yesterday,t oo.
<ajmitch> :P
<jamest> ajmitch: unmask interuupts
<ajmitch>  unmaskirq    =  1 (on)
<ajmitch>  using_dma    =  1 (on)
<jbailey> ajmitch: Plug it into the UDMA100/133 controller.
<nickr> dma makes a huge difference
<ajmitch> it is on the UDMA100 controller (motherboard)
<jbailey> ajmitch: And failing all that, pack it into a box and send it to me.  I'll debug it for you and give it back next time I see you.
<ajmitch> hdparm shows reasonable speeds
<ajmitch> haha
<nickr> I was copynig from a CD on my 1.5ghz athlon and it was DOGGING my system
<nickr> until I turned on all the fast ide options
<jamest> my athlon does that too once in a while
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<jamest> an asus or abit board IIRC
<ajmitch> jbailey: i handled that gnats request for accounts
<jbailey> ajmitch: Thanks.
<jbailey> Did you email rao?
<jamest> and if nothing else works, shut down the pr0n downloads, and just buy the mags at the store
<ajmitch> doesn't help that i have an antique & crap video card as well :)
<nickr> mine is a MSI nForce based board
<ajmitch> jbailey: not yet
<jbailey> jamest: The stuff he likes probably can't be found at stores.
<jamest> oooo he's from NZ isn't he
Action: ajmitch leaves before the sick jokes start
<jamest> :)
<nickr> sheep
<jbailey> I wasn't thinking livestock...
<jbailey> Unless..
<jbailey> Naw.  Australians aren't livestock.
<jbailey> =)
<nickr> lol
<jamest> if I close a ticket in dcl does the person that submitted it get an email back?
<jbailey> if a tree falls in the forest...
<jbailey> Sorry, I don't remember what it does.
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Action: psu will get story onto website tonight re. our new official Debians
<psu> & send to gnue-announce as well
<jbailey> Oh dear.
<jbailey> Did you catch that I got designer done last night, too?
<jbailey> May as well make it accurate.
<psu> forms, common, designer
<jbailey> Mhm
Action: psu will put the usual "This is CVS, whatdya expect?" disclaimer
<jbailey> I expect bug reports. =)
<jamest> um
<jamest> gnue cvs made it into sid?
<psu> jamest: that's how I read the logs, but you were actually there...
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<StyXman> I fixed another bug
<StyXman> the one that prevented to use parameters as datasources conditions and
<StyXman> prevented their reference in on-startup trigger
<jamest> StyXman: which cvs is this in?
<StyXman> the problem is that the parameters are not ...
<StyXman> jamest: was that already fixed?
<StyXman> my cvs is rather old, but updating is not an easy thing to do...
<StyXman> 3 weeks, I'll say
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<siesel> hi hi
<StyXman> hi siesel
<jamest> StyXman: i dunno
<jamest> what does your cvs do different than ours again....
<StyXman> well, with just adding...
Action: jamest has been gone too long to recall
<StyXman>       '_parameters': app._parameters
<siesel> hi StyXman.
<StyXman> to the attributes hash passed to loadXMLObject in GFParser.loadFormm
<StyXman> fixes it
<jcater> um
<jcater> that doesn't seem quite right
<jcater> reports doesn't do that
<jcater> hmmm
<siesel> StyXman: IMHO the parameter stuff is already fixed by removing the parameter caching in forms.
<siesel> but I could be wrong.
<StyXman> well, the orginal code assigns the parameters when calling instance.setForm
<StyXman> that's too late to read parameters in on-startup, as is done after the whole loadForm (with all the inits run) is executed
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I have that one fixed in my local copy
<jcater> but my routing isn't working properly
<jamest> but we cut off his cvs access
<StyXman> ah, ok
<jcater> so I can't access savannah to commit my fixes :(
<StyXman> routing? can't reach the cvs server?
<StyXman> !!!
<jcater> StyXman: yeah, our ISP is boinked today
<jcater> e.g.
<jcater> I can access www.google.com
<jcater> but not news.google.com
<jamest> jcater: can you ping
<jamest> 199.232.41.3
<StyXman> ours too
<jcater> no
<jamest> StyXman: what does your cvs do different than ours again....?
Action: jamest can't recall
<StyXman> jamest: I'm rather 3 weeks behind, 'cause I'm syncing our work with yours
<ajmitch> sounds messy
<StyXman> ah, sorru, misread
<StyXman> uh, weel, we got historic tables, multiple tables on datasources definitions...
<StyXman> gimme a sec
<siesel> StyXman: you add the "_paramter" line in the loadFile calls, which is in forms/src/GFParser.py L62, right? 
<StyXman> scrollbars alomost working...
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<StyXman> siesel: no.
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<StyXman> again, here:
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<StyXman> to the attributes hash passed to loadXMLObject in GFParser.loadForm
Action: Chipaca waltzes in
<Chipaca> whassup?
<siesel> STyXman: GFParser.loadForm is now GFParser.loadFile.
<StyXman> siesel: uh, excuse me again. the real answer is yes.
<jcater> why did that change to loadFile?
<StyXman> chit
<jamest> it changed because I need a consistant way to deal with 
<jcater> was that part of the import migration to common?
<jamest> yes
<StyXman> hi guys. well, I told them things we've done
<jcater> cool
<StyXman> \multiple tables, historic tables, scrollbars... naything else, besides menu and toolbar?
<jamest> historic tables?
<StyXman> jamest: better wait till Chipaca sits down again
<StyXman> my english is not that well yet
<StyXman> here he comes
<Chipaca> back
<psu> jamest: as discussed in KC
<Chipaca> transactional tables I believe they're also called
Action: psu finds the ref
Action: Chipaca hugs psu
<Chipaca> we haven't had time to do it with delegates, as we wanted, unfortunately
<Chipaca> because getting delegation to work would've probably changed the whole of dbsig, which was a no-no at that point
<psu> http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20020928_48.html#19
<Chipaca> it's still in the to-do list ;)
<siesel> Chipaca: what do you mean with delegation?
<Chipaca> siesel: *sigh*
<jcater> argh!
<jcater> zork.net is unroutable for me too
<Chipaca> heee
Action: jcater curses at something
<jcater> jamest: can I curse at you?
<Chipaca> which of the kt.zork.net?
<Chipaca> there are like four of 'em :)
<jamest> sure: join the crowd
<psu> jcater: try again - it's mirrored automagically, so maybe if you hit a diff mirror...
<jcater> jamest: @#$@!#$
<Chipaca> kt.zork.net         	A	193.201.200.66
<Chipaca> kt.zork.net         	A	209.61.154.49
<Chipaca> kt.zork.net         	A	212.204.235.21
<Chipaca> kt.zork.net         	A	217.157.160.207
<StyXman> well, is a common procedure to curse at and blame at me for everything wrong here, so you can just join the party :)
<jcater> StyXman: !@$@!#
<StyXman> :)
<StyXman> now I fell complete :)
<StyXman> s/fell/feel/
<StyXman> that
<Chipaca> StyXman: you winer
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> I can get to one of those 4
<jcater> however
<Chipaca> siesel: we explained delegation about the same time, it's probably in kt...
<jcater> they use name-based virtual hosting
<Chipaca> jcater: edit /etc/hosts :)
<jcater> so, it redirects me to a 404
<psu> jcater: they are also mirroed on livejournal.com
<StyXman> let's go kick ISP's...
<Chipaca> siesel: in fact the link psu posted was about delegation :)
<psu> which is esp. cool since the guy uses python rather than XSLT to parse them
<siesel> Chipaca: thx, found it.
<StyXman> jcater: so, how did you fixed that?
<StyXman> the params thing, I mean..
<jcater> um
<jcater> I think...
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> GFForms.py  __init__
<jcater>     self._parameters = app._parameters
<jcater> which is a lot like what you did
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<StyXman> *almost*
<StyXman> yes, seems the best place to do it.
<StyXman> jamest: did you removed the same thing from GFInstance.setForm?
<StyXman> s/same thing/equivalent thing/
<StyXman> s/removed/remove/
<StyXman> grrr english
<jcater> StyXman: yeah
<siesel> btw. jcater, jamest: does anyone of you have an urgent need for integrator?
<Chipaca> siesel: ?
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<jcater> siesel: relatively so
<jcater> I mean, not tomorrow
<jcater> but real soon
<jcater> I've already started on
<jcater> it
<jbailey> Funny, I'm just reading the website to figure out what integator is. =)
<jcater> I think my latest stuff is in cvs
<jcater> siesel: one of the biggest things I'll need to do next
<jcater> (That I haven't even started on)
<jcater> is a CSV / Flatfile dbdriver
<jcater> even a simplistic one
<ajmitch> gadfly not gonna cut it?
Action: Chipaca remembers DBD::CSV
<jcater> as my plans for integrator are primarily mapping from source datasources to destination datasources
<jcater> ajmitch: this isn't actually to run apps against
<jcater> I need to be able to load CVS files into my database
<jcater> and dump them from my database
<jbailey> ajmitch: Aren't you studying?
<jcater> for our vendors
<jcater> I certainly wouldn't plan on running forms against a CSV file, although it would be possible I suppose....
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> jbailey: yeah, got my monitor on still tho
<ajmitch> ah, i see
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<ajmitch> shouldn't take too long to do something 
<ajmitch> when do you need it by? :)
<jbailey> jcater: Cheaper to do it against CSV then, say, an XML flatfile. =)
<StyXman> Chipaca: yes, sorrily this ain't perl...
<jbailey> At least you could mmap the CSV file and get some decent performance out ofit.
<StyXman> but I like python a lot more than perl...
<Chipaca> StyXman: yes. But DBI kicks butt :)
<ajmitch> jcater: i can try & start on one tomorrow if you'd like, not sure how you'd declare field names & stuff like that tho
<ajmitch> as it would be useful for me as well
<siesel> jcater: For me Mapping between databases and especially some kind of rule engine is important.
<jcater> ajmitch: that's part of my hangup
<jcater> I'm wondering about having a child node of datasource
<jcater> <datasource type="flatfile">
<jcater>   <flatfiledefinition> 
<jcater>     ....
<jcater> but am not sure
<jcater> the best approach
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<ajmitch> for something quick & dirty, just name them 'column1' or 'field2', etc
<ajmitch> would allow for conversion
<siesel> if the flatfile dbdriver is just used for loading csv into integrator, why should we define special names for the fields
<ajmitch> agreed
<siesel> wouldn't a "field_1", "field_2" etc. be enought?
<ajmitch> as i said :)
<jcater> I don't think it will necessarily be 1 way
<jcater> but that's fine too
<jcater> field_1 would work 2 ways
<ajmitch> some CSV files may have headers
<ajmitch> iirc
<jcater> s/2/both
<jcater> ajmitch: most loading software I see
<jcater> have a "skipFirstRow" option
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> that first row may contain field names if you're lucky
Action: siesel would like to put all that stuff (skipFirstRow, delimiter....) into the connection.conf file
<jcater> that's workable too
<ajmitch> could be a good idea 
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<jcater> let's do that
<ajmitch> i'm thinking of using CSV to import online banking records
<ajmitch> http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/csv/ could be useful (if you can access it :) )
<siesel> what about writing? Should read+write access be supported. (that would mean to rewrite the file after a COMMIT)
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> so this will be a standard db driver? i'll give it a go tomorrow for y'all
<jcater> siesel: that's what I'm thinking
<ajmitch> ah yup, my bank has the first row as:
<ajmitch> Date,Amount,Payee,Particulars,Code,Reference,Tran Type
<jcater> I can see two options
<jcater> 1. skipFirstRow=0|1
<jcater> or
<jcater> 2. useHeadersAsFields
<jcater> or soemthing like that
<ajmitch> go for 2
<jcater> (they don't have to be exclusive
<jcater> )
<ajmitch> true
<jcater> err
<jcater> actually
<jcater> skiprows shouldn't be boolean
<jcater> it should be an integer
<jcater> as I've gotten some funky stuff frm vendors before
<jcater> esp. when they aren't using a real application
<jcater> but are instead doing in a spreadsheet and saving as cvs
<jcater> s/cvs/csv
<siesel> what about "firstRow=skip|fieldnames|data"
<jbailey> Is there plans for GNUe to provide an interface to creating databases/manipulating schemas?
<jcater> designer
<jcater> siesel: and default to "data" ?
<jcater> works for me'
<siesel> ok.
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<siesel> ehm. ... IMHO the Integrator Proposal speaks of converting data from a datasource into XML, move it into a RULE ENGINE and export the XML into a datasource again.
<siesel> the RULE ENGINE is quite similar to a XSLT tranformation for me.
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<ajmitch> bother
<ajmitch> silly linux 
<siesel> So I would like to add a module, which does kind of XSLT transformations, but is written in python, to common.
<jbailey> 'kind of'?
Action: ajmitch asks for logs to see what i missed :)
<jbailey> What's wrong with regular XSLT?
<siesel> So reports could use it too. 
<siesel> nothing
<jbailey> Use an XSLT namespace....
<jbailey> Like, if it's presenting as XML, you could just use <xsl:*> tags to embed commands in.
<siesel> I would just like to fake XML to the RULE ENGINE, because I don't think that it is good to convert huge database tables to XML just for fun.
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<jcater> reports is a rule engine
<jbailey> I've never lokoed at XML Query.  Last I looked it seemed like a bad idea.  Is it? =)
<jcater> I dunno
<siesel> jcater: so you would recommend to take code from reports to write integrator?
<jcater> reuse code, yet
<jcater> yes
<jcater> at least, I think so
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<StyXman> jcater: sorry, I was working. did you commited the changes?
<jcater> StyXman: my pipe is still down to 80% of the world :(
<siesel> Get:1 ftp://ftp.debian.org unstable/main gnue-common 0.4.1a-20021105-1 :)
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<dsmith> Cool.  getting the new packages from Sid.
<siesel> anyone knows how to detect the backend/server encoding of a postgresql database?
<jbailey> s/take code from reports/move code into common and use in both reports and/
<jbailey> ?
<jbailey> =)
<yogurt2unge> Lindo
<yogurt2unge> sorry
<yogurt2unge> bad focusing
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<KeithJagrs> hello
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<siesel> jbailey: integrator
<dsmith> jbailey: What's the proper/best/working driver for postgres (I'm looking for a package that works with gnue)
<jcater> psycopg
<jcater> but not 1.0.13
<dsmith> Hmm how about python2.2-psycopg ?
<dsmith> Ahh, it's 1.0.13-1
<dsmith> jcater: What's borkeld in 1.0.13 ?
<jcater> I upgraded to it this week
<jcater> and they changed something in their api
<jcater> or ahve a bad bug
Action: jcater doesn't undesrtand why functionality between 1.0.12 and 1.0.13 would change
<dsmith> So 1.0.12 works? I wonder if that's in woody.
<jcater> you can grab from http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/debian/
<jcater> it may be in woody, not sure
<dsmith> A "apt-get install python2.2-psycopg/stable" fails
Action: dsmith wgets http://www.gnuenterprise.org/%7Ejcater/debian/python2.2-psycopg_1.0.12-1_i386.deb
<dsmith> jcater: Yaay!  Works.
<jbailey> Woody! Bah!
<jbailey> Real men use sid!
<ajmitch> not when sid is broken!
<jbailey> Sid's no broken.  You folks just don't have an appreciation for the finer subtleties of glibc upgrades. =)
<StyXman> just for the record: a backup file got into cvs
<ajmitch> jbailey: we talking about psycopg :)
<StyXman> docbook/old/chapters/chpGNUeModuleGuide.sgm~
<jbailey> ajmitch: Yeah, well. =)
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<dsmith> jbailey: Real Men use Sid.  Insane people use Experimental.
<dsmith> jbailey: People with Work To Do use stable.
<ajmitch> real men use LFS!
<chillywilly> real men code in binary
<ajmitch> real men send pulses down the cpu wires themselves
<chillywilly> hehe
Action: ajmitch gets back to writing notes about routing
<dsmith> My very fist program I coded in hex (not binary), but I *did* enter it in binary.
<ajmitch> sicko
Action: ajmitch really gets back to study
<dsmith> That was in, what, 1979?
<dsmith> 23 years! Sheesh!
<jbailey> dsmith: Yeah - I was really pleased when gnome2 got into sid so I could stop using experimental.
<chillywilly> dsmith: you are OLD
<dsmith> <-- "Old Guy"
Action: chillywilly needs to wrap his noggin around this problem
<jbailey> 1980 I used basic to type in games into our TRS-80 Coco. =)
<jbailey> Hmm.  We might have had the model 1 by then.
<nickr> Model 1!? wimp!
<chillywilly> gnome2 is in sid now?
<nickr> OS9 my ass!
<nickr> chillywilly: yea
<chillywilly> I can remove my experimental lines?
<nickr> chillywilly: yea
<chillywilly> well I'l be a monkey's uncle
<jbailey> That explains so much.
<dsmith> chillywilly: Playing wiht it now.
<nickr> There are several things that piss me off about gnome2
<nickr> on the other hand, some things are very cool
<chillywilly> better to be pissed ff than pissed on
<jbailey> The things that pissed me off don't seem to anymore.
<jbailey> I've just gotten used to them.
<chillywilly> I like gnome 2
<chillywilly> it is my beotch
<nickr> The main thing that pissed me off was that you couldn't set the level of the panel, it was always 'always on top'
<dsmith> The boss installed dRedHat 8 the other day.  He's back to Debian.
<chillywilly> lol
<nickr> But that was mitigated whenI found you can set the hidden height to 1 pixel and autohide times to 100ms
<chillywilly> oooh, gstreamer 0.4.2 is in now
<chillywilly> w00t
<nickr> whats the point of gstreamer anyway?
<chillywilly> multi-media framework
<chillywilly> it's like the gnue for multimedia
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> framework, apps, et. al.
<nickr> It just gives me an error and does nothing.
<chillywilly> I am going to use it to encode our church services in ogg
<nickr> I'm looking forward to mplayer, now that divx is unencumbered. Muahahaha
<chillywilly> right off the mixer board into my laptop
<jbailey> chillywilly: Does gstreamer do a nice job of that?
<jbailey> chillywilly: We're using icecast.
<chillywilly> well all I did right now was test it with a mic
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<chillywilly> gst-launch ! osssrc ! vorbisenc ! filesink location=whatever.ogg.....soemthing like that and talk into the mic ;)
<chillywilly> we'll see how it works
<chillywilly> I need an 1/4 to 1/8 adapter
<dsmith> Does anyone know if it's even possible for nautilus to open .tar.gz's and .deb's like midnight commander (and gmc) does?
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<nickr> Im pretty sure you can.
<KeithJagrs> gstreamer?
<KeithJagrs> multimedia?
<chillywilly>  #gstreamer
<chillywilly> http://www.libertyetech.com/test.ogg <-- funny :P
<dsmith> I would think that the vfs stuff would do it, but I've already got that installed.
Action: chillywilly checks to make sure that file is still there
<dsmith> Well, Back to Ohio.  Good Night, Folks!
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Action: chillywilly thinks the debs need to hurry up and install themselves
<StyXman> pages are no more containers? and blocks are?
<chillywilly> do we have gnue debs in sid now?
<jbailey> They've been ACCEPTED.
<StyXman> wow
<chillywilly> but are they apt-gettable yet?
Action: chillywilly does not know what it means to be "ACCEPTED"
<StyXman> I guess they got in
<jbailey> chillywilly: That's okay.  Geeks often feel like outcasts.
<chillywilly> :'(
<jbailey> I can see that it's in the master that gets rsync'd out, so whenever the pulse is finished, you'll be able to apt it.
<jbailey> None of the buildds have picked it up yet, though.
<chillywilly> k
<chillywilly> brb
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<StyXman> jcater: I found a strange line
<StyXman> uh, fosr/src/uidrives/nstti/UIdriver.py:749
<StyXman> s/fosr/forms/
<StyXman> it reads 
<StyXman> 'return keystroke'
<StyXman> the cvs commit log reads:
<StyXman> playing w/ docs
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<StyXman> is that ok?
<jcater> that driver is in a state of transition
<jcater> I wouldn't go digging around too much 
<jcater> no telling what other nasties you'll find
<StyXman> ok. is just that I was sweeping the code...
<StyXman> so, next week we'll have some patches.
<StyXman> or maybe this friday
<StyXman> but surely on monday
<StyXman> see you around
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<jbailey> ".. English-like syntax such as SQL ...."
<jbailey> SQL is Englishlike in the same way that a kick to the head is sex-like.
<jcater> mmmmm
<jcater> kick-in-the-head
Action: jcater gets excited
<jbailey> Perhaps you would get along well with the author of this textbook.
<jamest> physical contact?
<jbailey> physical contact.  heads and feet can be used for sexual activity.
<jbailey> Some might even be into pain.
<jbailey> And there's a few people for whom that might be their *preferred* sexual contact.
<jbailey> But not many. =)
<jbailey> Any DCL evangelizors here?
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Action: jbailey pokes Derek.
Action: jamest hands jbailey a bat
<jamest> try this
<Maniac> evangelizers?
Action: Maniac sings the praise of DCL
<jbailey> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-11/msg00122.html and the descending threads seem to indicate that folks there want to switch from Gnats to Bugzilla.
<jbailey> People (and by this, I generally mean Derek) who would prefer that they use DCL should probably speak up.
<jamest> I'm pretty happy with DCL for our bugs
<jbailey> I just don't have time to explain to them why it's a good idea to use it.
<jbailey> (Partially because I dno't actually use DCL for anything)
<derek> jbailey: im a dcl evangelizer
<derek> BUT its more 'work order' oriented than software bug oriented
<jbailey> Ah, okay.
<derek> i.e. there are several features missing that would make it better
<derek> but i think it does pretty darn good
<jbailey> derek: I just figured that if you felt DCL was up to it, you could poke your head it.
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<derek> PLUS with most software you hope you are doing more new work
<derek> than fixing bugs
<derek> and i think DCL is FAR superior in task management
<derek> but weaker in bug management (though it does an ok job of this)
<jbailey> (Uh oh.  Derek is in an uppercase mood)
<derek> if 'versioning' stuff was beefed up a bit it would be pretty good
<derek> bugzilla is great for version management, but its really bad for end users to deal with (imho)
<derek> i.e. its daunting to deal with unless you use it religiously
<jbailey> I know several people with the same complaint.
<derek> Remosi: csv driver, i personally wouldnt make it as complex as is talked about (well to a degree)
<jamest> derek!
<jamest> you have mysql running?
<derek> as i think there is a difference between 'integrator' and 'csv driver'
<derek> jamest: i think so but im on way out
<jamest> i need a person with mysql running to test some stuff for me
<derek> just was logging out and i saw my name and bat
<derek> sos thought i shsould investigate :)
<jamest> i felt the love?
<jamest> s/i/and
<derek> i can test when i get home in a few hours
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<marioct> hello people, I need some help with Sample examples....  
<jamest> i'll try and help
<marioct> good night jamest.
<jamest> what do yo need?
<marioct> I need SQL Sample tables. Where can I get it ?
<marioct> To run zipcode.gfd
<jamest> where is this sample located?
<jamest> samples/zipcode/zipcode.gfd?
<marioct> yes.
<jamest> is this cvs or a release?
<marioct> is a release... 
<jamest> hmmm is there not a pg_zip_code.sql file in the same directory with it?
<marioct> no there isn't !
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> ok
<jamest> create table state
<jamest> (
<jamest>   state char(2)                 PRIMARY KEY,
<jamest>   description varchar(30)       NOT NULL
<jamest> );
<jamest> create table zipcode
<jamest> (
<jamest>   zip char(5)      PRIMARY KEY,
<jamest>   city varchar(30) NOT NULL,
<jamest>   state char(2)    NOT NULL REFERENCES state
<jamest> );
<jamest> then quite a few lines like
<jamest> INSERT INTO state (state, description) VALUES('AL','Alabama');
<jamest> INSERT INTO state (state, description) VALUES('AK','Alaska');
<jamest> INSERT INTO state (state, description) VALUES('AZ','Arizona');
<jamest> but you can enter these directly into the form so no need to run them
<marioct> ok, very thanks... :)
<jamest> no problem
<marioct> but, I need more one table called samples ?!?!?!
<jamest> we really need to get our samples in better order
<jamest> what database are you using?
<marioct> Mysql .
<jamest> ok, I'm not a mysql user so I'm not going to be much help
<jamest> but i'll try
<jamest> you really don't need our samples if you've installed designer
<marioct> What can I do ? I have gnue-designer
<jamest> in your connections.conf file setup an entry for your database
<jamest> [gnue]
<jamest> comment = Production DB(G)
<jamest> provider = psycopg
<jamest> host = gnue
<jamest> dbname = gnue
<jamest> replacing the provider with the database you're using 
<jamest> provider = mysql
<marioct> yes, I setup connections.conf to run with mysql.
<jamest> ok, cool
<jamest> run designer
<jamest> gnue-designer
<marioct> ok
<jamest> file->new->from wzard
<marioct> ok
<jamest> lets do a simple one to start
<jamest> Simple Form Wizard
<marioct> cool
<jamest> run that
<jamest> do you see a title entry box
<jamest> and a dropdown with a list of connections available?
<marioct> ok... login required, I enter username and pass... 
<jamest> lol, you're in better shape than me
<jamest> i need to setup 0.4.0 real quick
<marioct> I'm trying to understand this gnue... :)
<marioct> now, I'm  on a screen named : Select Base TAble/Source
<jamest> do you see tables listed?
<marioct> one moment, I forgot to create tables. :)
<jamest> you can create any tables you like
<jamest> if you already have data in a database feel free to use it
<marioct> I'll create a sample table.
<jamest> let me know when you're ready to contine
<marioct> I'm ready. now "Select Fields to include" !
<jamest> ok select the fields you want to have visible on your form
<jamest> then click add
<jamest> on the bottom of this listing is an Arrangement method
<jamest> pick any of them you like
<marioct> ok.
<jamest> grid is kinda handy for few field tables
<jamest> but not huge tables
<jamest> then click finished
<marioct> ok. cool..  Now I have a form on my screen
<jamest> file save 
<jamest> just in case
<marioct> ok
<jamest> now we can exit 
<jamest> we'll come back to it in a sec
<jamest> once back at the prompt gnue-forms yourfile.gfd
<marioct> exit gnue-designer ?
<jamest> sure, or we can play some if you'd like?
<jamest> i was going to have you run the form
<jamest> but lets go ahead and make some changes
<marioct> you rule !
<jamest> double click on any field on the screen
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<jamest> now in 0.4.0 there is a nasty bug that prevents a person from changing a property in the Property Inspector if a scrollbar is present on the Property Inspector dialog
<jamest> you have to get creative and stretch the box really, really long
<marioct> ok..
<jamest> using the alt-key left mouse drag to move the dialog 
<jamest> or whatever you windows manager supports
<jamest> once the evil scrollbar is gone 
<jamest> do you have a property called case?
<marioct> yes, is the first one.
<jamest> you should be able to open up a dropdown box here and choose upper
<marioct> cool..
<jamest> you should also have a maxLength property
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<jamest> and a property called required
<jamest> if you turn on required then you cannot save changes unless you've filled this value
<jamest> it's a UI based NOT NULL
<jamest> if you're a sql person that is :)
<marioct> how can I turn REQUIRED on ?
<jamest> double click and set to true
<marioct> sorry...  double click :)
<marioct> what is DisplayMas??
<jamest> it's a displayMask
<jamest> but not functoinal in 0.4.0
<jamest> pretend it's not there :)
<marioct> hehe :)
<jamest> however you can go down to typecast
<jamest> and it'll implement some rather crude input masking
<jamest> plus it prevents the user from entering the wrong type of data in the field
<jamest> btw - what platform you running on?
<marioct> linux.
<marioct> and you ?
<jamest> debian linux
<marioct> me too debian.
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<jamest> you apt get this thing?
<jamest> we have our repository on our server
<marioct> not really,. I wget, and dpkg -i .debs
<marioct> my apt-get isn working...
<jamest> and I think jbailey pushed snapshots of our cvs into  sid
<marioct> I will reinstall debian on my machine in decenber...
<marioct> so apt-get will work again.
<jamest> anyway please save your form fairly often
<jamest> designer is, um, how do you say....fiesty
<marioct> ok....  and where is the databsae connection ?
<jamest> it'll work wonderful long enough for you to forget it's pre 1.0 then blam
<jamest> exit designer and run
<jbailey> blue?
<jamest> gnue-forms yourfile.gfd
<marioct> haha.. but ... what is fiesty ?
<jbailey> jamest: Yes, yesterday's snapshots.  Should be at your friendly neighbourhood mirror.
<jbailey> but only common, forms and designer.
<jbailey> The others will follow later, and will likely be from yesterday's snapshot so that I have a known working base.
<jamest> 1 chiefly Southern & Midland a : full of nervous energy : FIDGETY b : being touchy and quarrelsome
<jamest> from w-m.com
<marioct> ohh...  it doesn't work.
<jamest> er
<jamest> m-w.com
<jamest> what is your error?
<marioct> there are one screen of error messages...
<jamest> i only need the last few lines
<jamest> is this in forms or designer?
<marioct> in forms.....
<marioct> DB000:     AttributesNSImpl(newattrs, {}))
<marioct> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/GParser.py", line 249, in startElementNS
<marioct> DB000:     raise MarkupError, _('Error processing <%s> tag [required attribute "%s" not present]')
<marioct> % (name, attr)
<marioct> DB000: gnue.common.GParser.MarkupError: Error processing <option> tag [required attribute "name" not present]
<jamest> ah crap
Action: jamest didn't want to do this to you
<jamest> you a coder?
<marioct> I know C++ not phyton... yet. :)
<jamest> our wizards got a little wierd in the 0.4.0 release  (please note the last .0 on there :)
<jamest> cool
<jamest> edit the gfd file
<jamest> anyone that groks c++ can grok gfd :)
<marioct> hahaha..
Action: chillywilly is grokking some c++ right now
<jamest> in there you'll find some tags named <option>
<jamest> what do they look like
<marioct> wait a minute please... i think I make a mistake....
<marioct> I ran another .gfd...
<marioct> Now I run the correct .gfd and I received this error message...
<marioct> DB000:     rsets = self._cursor.fetchmany()
<marioct> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py", line 186, in fetchmany
<marioct> DB000:     end = self._pos + size or self.arraysize
<marioct> DB000: TypeError: unsupported operand types for +
<jamest> argh!
<marioct> After, gnue-forms asked username and password....
<jamest> this means that the file /usr/lib/python2.1/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py has issues
<jamest> at least with our code
<jamest> I imagine this is part of the mysql database driver?
<jamest> outside of ours which would be in /usr/lib/gnue/lib/python/gnue/common/dbdrivers/mysql
<jamest> sigh, what debian you running?
<marioct> 2.2 potato.
<marioct> release 6.
<jamest> ok
<jamest> with source installed python2.1?
<jamest> or woody .debs for python 2.1
<jamest> or other :)
<jbailey> potato?  Are you not able to upgradE?
<jamest> he's upgrading in december
<jamest> his apt-get is broken
<marioct> I will upgrade in december.. :) with backups in hands...
<jamest> marioct: jbailey is our debian maintainer.....please refrain from feeding him and keep your hands on this side of the bars
<jbailey> Or if you feed me, please get *vegan* donuts.
<jbailey> They're rather hard to come by, sadly.
<marioct> :)
<jamest> we just have to let you run a form
<jamest> in samples/intro/intro.gfd
<jamest> that form does not require a data connection
<jamest> and it shows off triggers, buttons and such
<marioct> I have a lot of .debs for python... 2.1.3-3
<jamest> pages, etc
<jamest> a person can tinker with it in designer to their hearts content
<marioct> I don't have this file :)
<jamest> intro.gfd didn't make it in?
<jamest> argh!!!!
<marioct> haha.
Action: chillywilly slabs jbailey with a trout
<jamest> 0.5.0 is looking very much like it's going to be a no new features only cleanpu and docs release
<marioct> Docs, is very good for new person like me..
<jamest> cvs has some nice docs
<Mr_You> and GNUe-SmallBiz release?
<jamest> in openoffice format
<jamest> Mr_You: that's a derek question
<Mr_You> ok, its not in CVS yet
<jamest> marioct: you up for trying CVS?
<jamest> or do you buy the bandwidth by the byte?
<Mr_You> I think it would do GNUe some good promoting the release of SmallBiz..
<Mr_You> is someone doing freshmeant.net (was going to correct, but its kinda funny) ;-)
<Mr_You> freshmeat.net
<marioct> I'm up, but not now.... I have to sleep, it is 1a.m here in Brasil 
<jamest> oush
<jamest> ouch
<jamest> where are our samples in the .debs?
<Mr_You> if no one is doing freshmeat.net updates I could volunteer.
<jamest> i can mail you intro.gfd if you like
<chillywilly> oush! that hewrtz
<marioct> I downloaded from gnue page.
<jbailey> Hmm..  I don't remember if the samples wne into the tarball.
<jamest> sigh
<marioct> if you can.....  mario@mitus.com.br
<jamest> i leave for a few months.................
<jamest> and it's as big a mess as when I was around the first time :)
<marioct> haha.. I'm feeling ....  I'll be here (IRC) tomorrow night...
<jamest> sent
<jamest> ok, have a good, um, night
<marioct> Do you always come here ?
Action: jamest hangs head in shame
<jamest> yes
<marioct> I'll try more with gnue-designer and forms... If I need some help... :)
<jamest> ok
<jamest> if you can get cvs
<jamest> or if you like I can mail you an openoffice doc or pdf
<jamest> of a designer guide for forms that jcater is working on
<jamest> a tutorial of sorts
Action: jbailey cries
<jbailey> Why doesn't MS Access love me?
<chillywilly> don't hang your head, hold it p with pride!
<jamest> jbailey: it loves you
<chillywilly> the goats cannot defeat us!
<marioct> if you can ... Send -me this stuff by e-mail.
<jamest> it's just in a "you shouldn't have been walking alone in the alley at midnight" kind of way
<marioct> thanks again...  tomorrow I have numerical calculus lessons.... :)
<jamest> marioct: ok, i'll try and get a pdf made tonight
<marioct> thanks...  something is better than nothing...
<marioct> good night people.
<jamest> nite
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<jbailey> ROAR.  Forms display differently than table rules.
<jbailey> This isn't worth the 10 marks!
<jamest> what?
<jbailey> I'm doing a school assignment.  I have to do it in access. =(
<jamest> dude
Action: jamest is feeling pity for jbailey
<jbailey> And 10% of the mark is on extra features and such.  "Use of a Query, Input Form or Report or use of Field Attributes, ie: Input Mask, Caption or Default Value."
<jbailey> I have managed to avoid learning access for almost a decade!
<jamest> ooooo
<jamest> use gnue
<jamest> then show it running on unix, windows, and OS X
<jamest> that's an extra feature! :)
<jbailey> Ah yes, but probably a 0 for me.
<jamest> well, yeah 
<chillywilly> schools are lame
<chillywilly> they always make you learn useless crap
<jbailey> Yeah, well.  work offered it under my training budget, so hey.  Do it while the option's there.
<jbailey> I'm registering for 3 university classes this month. =)
<jamest> ahhhh
<jamest> another dcl ticket bites the dust
<SachaS> what do you guys do to boost your motiviation ? hack gnue :)
<jamest> um, not hack gnue for a few months
<chillywilly> jbailey: well if yo don't have to pay then it is all good ;)
<SachaS> i am short of sleep as I installed a new usb all-in-one printer under cups last night
<chillywilly> it took all night?
<SachaS> and it is working :)
<chillywilly> yay :)
<SachaS> thank you chillywilly :)
<chillywilly> for what?
<chillywilly> I didn't help
<chillywilly> ;P
<jamest> NOTE: the GParser now honors the Required and SingleInstance attributes in set in the G*Paser.py files
<chillywilly> wooo
<jamest> so if some app starts not loading files complaining about multiple instances or required tags missing
Action: chillywilly should finish the parser for godl, but I have other *stupid* things to do...
<jamest> then check that apps G*Parser.py file 
<jamest> let me rephrase
<jamest>  if some app starts not loading VALID files
<jamest> :)
<chillywilly> heh
<jamest> do we have any mysql users here?
<jamest> here mysql user, here mysql user
<jamest> i won't trash your db , honest, i need to install it 
<jbailey> apt-get install mysql-server
<jbailey> =)
<jamest> ok, now I need to admin it
<jbailey> Keep in mind that I'm studying something else right now - specific questions good.  General statements will probably remain unanswered.
<jamest> ah, cool
<jamest> all I want is an easy way to admin the thing
<jamest> setup a test user, test database, and test tables
<jamest> mysql permissions always seem like a complete mess to me
<jamest> so
<jamest> is there a .deb package for something that will let me do this easily
<jbailey> phpmyadmin
<jbailey> God's gift to MySQL administration.
<jamest> lol, ok, so I have to install apache and php on my workstation
Action: jamest has decided to just take it like a man and learn how to do it manually
<jbailey> *blink*.
<jbailey> You don't have apache loaded?
<jamest> on my personal workstation?
<jamest> at home?
<jamest> no
<jamest> i don't even have it on my database/file server
<jamest> no need
<SachaS> jamest: i use apache alot to access html manuals.
<jamest> i just point konq at the html file I need
<jamest> i think I'm there
<jamest> lol
<jamest> bugz
<Mr_You> man I'm reading this book about an Aikido Sensei... when they were learning they use to go test their skills against cocky gangsters and such
<Mr_You> in the book they describe one scene with 30 gangsters (they were expecting 4 or so)
<Maniac> lol: As of this writing, the very first hit with a Google search for "vb" and "macros" is a user wanting to know how to use them for viruses. <--- http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/us-cranky23.html
<Mr_You> pre-world war II
<Mr_You> its an auto-biography
<Mr_You> this was forbidden by O'Sensei
<jbailey> Which Sensei?
<chillywilly> sounds irish
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> O'Sensei
<Mr_You> some guys would come back from the dojo showing how they got beat up the night before and the following night they'd be out there looking for someone to pick a fight with them ;-)
<Mr_You> hehe
<Mr_You> O'Sensei (Great Teacher) is the name given to Usheiba (sp?) Sensei who created Aikido
<Mr_You> these were his live in students
<jbailey> Ushideshi
<Mr_You> yup
<jbailey> My Sensei's Sensei was an ushideshi to Tohei-Sensei.  Good stories.
<Mr_You> great
<chillywilly> jamest: you still here?
<jamest> for only a moment
<chillywilly> jamest: can you help me with frelling syslogd?
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<Mr_You> one day I hope to visit a Ki Aikido dojo
<chillywilly> I was trying to get all the iptables output to go to only one file
<Mr_You> I have read Japanese Yoga / Shin Shin Toitsu Do
<chillywilly> instead of to any terminal and kern.log
<jamest> ok
Action: Mr_You has www.japaneseyoga.org ;-)
Action: Mr_You bows to jbailey.
<chillywilly> although only thing that now works is to the screen
<chillywilly> jamest: you want my syslog.conf?
<jamest> not yet
Action: jbailey bows to Mr_You
<jbailey> onageishemasu (sp?)
<jbailey> Time to go home.
<jamest> chillywilly: you want all other kern loggin to still go to console though?
<Mr_You> onegoshimasu (sp?) heh
<chillywilly> jamest: well wherever it goes now
<chillywilly> whatever the debian default is
<chillywilly> see I set my rule swith --log-level info
<chillywilly> then tried this line at the top
<chillywilly> kern.info     /var/log/iptables
<chillywilly> it created the file but it remains empty
<chillywilly> but even kern.* /var/log/kern.log isn't getting appended too either now
<chillywilly> it used to log to console and kern.log before I started mucking about
<chillywilly> at any rate if you have some sys admin guru setup for syslogd that you cold part with that would be appreciated
<chillywilly> could
<jamest> not for something like this
<chillywilly> oh
<jamest> the only thing I've done w/ syslog is route to remote host
<jamest> hang on a sec
<chillywilly> wwhatver.whatever   @host
<chillywilly> right/
<chillywilly> ?
<chillywilly> ;)
<jamest> yeah
<jamest> chillywilly: can we hit this in tomorrow? remember that line
<jamest> for only a moment
<jamest> my wife requested that I leave the computer room 
<chillywilly> man
<chillywilly> ok
Action: jamest knows who wears the pants in the family 
<jamest> and it aint me
<chillywilly> I guess you have to listen to the boss ;)
<jamest> i'll look thru my syslog stuff at work in the morning and see if I can figure it out
<chillywilly> I may have to try our LUG list ;)
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<ajmitch> hello
<chillywilly> wtf?
<chillywilly> I have a bunch of empty headers in my commit-gnue folder
<chillywilly> this is whacked
<ajmitch> so? file a bug report about it, don't whinge here :)
<ajmitch> blame glibc or something
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<chillywilly> seems all my folders are now empty
<chillywilly> perhaps the disk is full
<chillywilly> hrrm
<ajmitch> that would be sucky
<chillywilly> yes it would
<chillywilly> but it is not the cas
<chillywilly> e
<ajmitch> sighm only about 7GB free here
<chillywilly> how about you ajmitch, know anything about making iptables log to a file via syslog?
<chillywilly> man, this doesn't make any sense
<chillywilly> mutt is diaplying the mails but the headers are all empty
<chillywilly> WEIRD
<chillywilly> if I select a new one it tells me it cannot copy the message'
<chillywilly> maybe a perms thing
<chillywilly> *sigh* this blows
<Mr_You> chilly, you tried sending kern.debug and other priorities to other log files?
<chillywilly> nope, but if I set the log-level it should work shouldn't it?
<chillywilly> I dunno I didn't have time to play with it frther
<ajmitch> depends
<Mr_You> I think you want to config other kern.=debug (=info,=blah) lines in the syslog.conf and see which debug levels send to which priorities (debug, info)
<Mr_You> or I think someone mentioned maybe a later version having an option to log elsewhere
<chillywilly> yea, someone said I could do --to-log file.log
<chillywilly> but I didn't see that in the iptables man page
<Mr_You> might be a newer version
<chillywilly> one would think that sid would have a newer version of iptables
<Mr_You> I've never had to mod syslog.conf in all these years
<ajmitch> apt-get install syslog-ng
<chillywilly> ajmitch: saw that mentioned too
<Mr_You> I felt sorry for people who had to watch log files scroll by during the day ;-))
<chillywilly> in a mail from some list when doing a google search
<chillywilly> does mutt have a bug in it?
<chillywilly> with imap
<chillywilly> cause it is NOT displaying messsage headers correctly now
<chillywilly> :(
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<chillywilly> they are all blank and of 0 size :(
<chillywilly> how lame
<chillywilly> I just upgraded earlier
<chillywilly> hmmm
Action: chillywilly suspects it is the fll / partition on this box :(
<chillywilly> er, full
Action: chillywilly wonder how the frell it got full
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Action: chillywilly does an apt-get clean
<chillywilly> this looks useful
<chillywilly> ulogd - The Netfilter Userspace Logging Daemon
<Mr_You> you could have tried in syslog.conf by now ;-)
<chillywilly> yea, but I am not only working on that
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