Varadhan (~Varadhan@61.11.56.27) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> hi Varadhan
btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> good morning
<derek> hi btami
Action: derek wanders off to bed its late here
Action: derek is away: sleep
<Varadhan> hi derek.. sorry was not on my desk...
<ajmitch> ah well
<ajmitch> derek gone bed, i shall go off to sleep here as well
<Varadhan> bye ajmitch...
reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
lawrence (~lawrence@h24-84-197-16.wk.shawcable.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
lawrence (~lawrence@h24-84-197-16.wk.shawcable.net) left irc: "I like core dumps"
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ariel_> does anyone knows where common.openResource is?
<btami> ariel_: common/src/FileUtils.py
<ariel_> why setup-cvs does not install it ?
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> it installs
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-5.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
<ariel_> when i run gncvs i get:
<ariel_> cannot import name OpenResource
<ariel_> with gnue-navigator is the same but i haven't installed 0.4 since i ever use cvs
<btami> its correct name is openResource
<ariel_> i typed not cut&paste it gave me openResource
<ariel_> do i need to do a setup-cvs root installation?
<btami> i don't think so
<btami> do you use latest CVS ?
<ariel_> the same within a python session:
<ariel_> from gnue.common import openResource
<btami> and rerun setup-cvs.py ?
ariel__ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
ariel__ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: Client Quit
ariel__ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
hjibds2 (~henderson@host62-7-105-56.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<hjibds2> hi
<btami> hi
<hjibds2> I was told the last time that I was on someone was writing a kinda small business version of GNUe - do you know anything about it?
<btami> not too much
<btami> it's gnue-sb on savannah
<btami> and Varadhan has wrote some demo app for oracle-show IIRC
<hjibds2> do you know what the current status of the project is
<btami> what project, gnue or gnue-sb ?
<btami> i know nothing more about gnue-sb
<btami> it comes :)
<btami> ask derek
<hjibds2> what kind of status is gnue at then? i.e. how long before it is ready for production use
<btami> a: 0.4.1 coming soon
<btami> b: don't know
<hjibds2> hmmm - anything else similar at a further stage - had a dig about the net but this was the only project that i could find
<btami> yes, this IS the best project :)
<ra3vat> hjibds2: the tools is very useful already
<btami> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello btami
<hjibds2> ready for use as an ERP system?
<ra3vat> hjibds2: forms, reports are tools to build your own application
<btami> ra3vat:i have i18n problems remaining in reports
<hjibds2> how hard is it to build your own apps? - I have very little programming knowledge
<hjibds2> downloaded the software yesturady but never had time to install it last night to have a look at it myself
<ra3vat> hjibds2: it may depends on application you need but mostly you do not need programming knowledge
<hjibds2> excellent
<hjibds2> It says it works with PostgreSQL so I assume it will work with RHDB2 ?
<ra3vat> hjibds2: you design form and create db and then iyt works
<hjibds2> hmmm didn't realise that it was at that stage - hopefully I'll get a chance to install it tonight
<btami> ra3vat: 1. there is only formFontEncoding in forms section
<btami> and reports read only reports section
<btami> so reportFontEncoding is needed
<btami> is gnue.conf
<btami> s/is/in
<btami> 2. dest.write fails with _content_ type data
<ra3vat> btami: i just changed encoding where header for dest.write is defined
<btami> so .encode(encoding) needed to in some place in GRLayout.py
<ra3vat> it helped to see right data, but source is still wrong with references of UTF-8
<btami> try a <out:ReportTitle> with non ascii title
<ra3vat> btami: it worked 
<ra3vat> have no time right now, sorry
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
hjibds2 (~henderson@host62-7-105-56.in-addr.btopenworld.com) left irc: 
<Varadhan> btami: thanx a lot for referring this small app too... :)
<Varadhan> actually we didn't do any sort of validations in it... because of the lack of time to put it in the show... ;)
<btami> Varadhan: nothing :)
<Varadhan> anyway.. we will soon be able to post the application to the gnue samples directory...
<Varadhan> btw... i need some help regarding "schema"s...
<Varadhan> what is a schema?  How it is used?
<Varadhan> ra3vat: hi.. 
<btami> its an XML markup for database definition
<Varadhan> is it compulsory for an application to define schema?
roblimo (~roblimo@pcp281688pcs.elkrdg01.md.comcast.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Varadhan> How will it be useful for an application?
<btami> no, it's not neessary for an app
<btami> it is useful for transferring data from one database to another
<btami> or filling a database with tables/data
<Varadhan> could you pls explain this more?
<grib> Varadhan: if you define the database structure with XML, you can translate it into idiomatic SQL for a specific database variety.  don't know if that's how gnue schemas are used but it's a pretty standard technique. 
Action: drochaid is back (gone 10:29:17)
<btami> you can find a good example in zipcode sample
<btami> in samples/tutorials/forms/zipcode.gsd
<btami> and there is an ooO doc around, but i can't recall where :)
<grib> infrastructure question: are there any plans to provide a gnue transaction processing server, or queueing system?  or are most gnue apps tied to synchronous database semantics (i.e. client actions block until complete)
<ariel__> grib: there are plans for this in the appserver
<ariel__> see the hallowen mail in gnue-dev mailing list
<grib> ariel__: cool, thanks.
<ra3vat> btami: i'm looking into last patches
<btami> some imports are missing jet
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> hi jamest
<jamest> hello
<btami> jamest: have you a little time to fix SimpleReport
<jamest> what's wrong?
<btami> 2 import lines are missing from designer.report.TemplateSupport.py
<btami> from gnue.common import GParserHelpers
<btami> from gnue.reports import GRLayout
<jamest> ah, designer not reports itself
<jamest> lemme look
<Varadhan> btami: i will check that.. thanx for your info....
Action: jamest didn't even know designer had reports templates yet :)
imoz (~jmozelesk@user216-178-90-228.netcarrier.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<imoz> Hi, I can't seem to get to the mailing list links on the gnue.org site.  Did they move?
<jamest> btami: how do you trigger the bug?
<jamest> imoz: our lists are on gnu.org now....i'll find you url to them
<imoz> thanks
<grib> jamest: for some reason the gnu ML pages aren't accessible atm
<imoz> hmm..
<jamest> yip, same here, they be down
<jamest> btami: I can't trigger the bug
<imoz> Gnue is entirely written in Python, right?
<btami> jamest: SimpleReport wizard in designer doesn't creates a good SimpleTabulation report
<jamest> yip
<imoz> so conceivably one could compile it to run on .NET?
<jamest> i know nothing about .net so I don't know
<jamest> almost everything  should run anywhere a python interpreter is avaliable
<imoz> I had this idea to create a GPL'd clone of Great Plains Dynamics on .NET in C#...and then I found Gnue.org :-)
<btami> jamest: you have to save the report (created by wizard) in designer
<btami> jamest: label-specs.dat isn't in reports setup.py too
<jamest> lol, 1 at a time please :)
<btami> but i have to go home right now :)
<imoz> It looks like Gnue's reporting tool generates reports as HTML output...  Does this work effectively for printing say an invoice on a pre-printed form?
<jamest> btami: is there more to the reports fix?
<jamest> as that file never references those libs
<jamest> imoz: gnues reporting tool outputs an XML markup 
<jamest> that can be converted to text, html, ps, pdf, whatever
<imoz> ok
<jamest> I've had people write letters in word processor of their choice
<jamest> same as PS file via windows apple laserwriter 
<jamest> then reports can merge data in 
<btami> jamest: some i18n issues i'm fighting with
<jamest> sent out about 600 faxes this way a few months back
<imoz> sweet
<jamest> btami: those imports don't fix it
<btami> jamest: please read backlog
<jamest> ok
<btami> ?
<jamest> i put them in templatesupport but they are never referenced in the code
<jamest> hang on
<jamest> btami: I'll read the logs and get to reports a bit later
<jamest> I'll fix setup.py
<jamest> what's up with i18n
<btami> huh
Action: jamest was suppossed to be doing work for client on his "day off" but prefers to GNUe :)
<btami> l8r, i have to go really now
<btami> bye
<jamest> <btami> jamest: some i18n issues i'm fighting with
btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: 
Action: jamest needs more caffine as he's lagging in that conversation 
<imoz> I just downloaded the Win32 binaries and I'm playing with the Designer... this reminds me a lot of the Great Plains "Modifier"
<jamest> imoz: a huge word of warning
<imoz> ?
<jamest> our win32 support in GNUe Forms via wxPython has issues, we're writting a win32 API ui driver during the next release cycle because we can't get what we need from wx
<jamest> it works, but it's a bit odd
<jamest> i just don't want you running a form and saying WTF!?!?!? 
<grib> jamest: so is wx not quite the x-platform miracle it was thought to be? 
<jamest> well, you can still say it but know we're working on it :)
<imoz> hehehe
<imoz> well its a lot further along than other projects so :-)
<jamest> grib: i think it's the underlying widget set for the platform
Action: grib hates thinking about windows but has to
<jamest> on X we can get ahold of certain events, in windows those events never make it to the wx level
<grib> jamest: is gtk on win32 too far from usability? 
<imoz> how did Gnue get started?  I mean, what kind of background did the core developers come from?
<jamest> imoz: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/faq.html#GNUe-FAQ-1.14
<jamest> grib: I haven't tried it yet, client of mine was nice enough to promise customer online system by 1st week of Dec
<jamest> I got the specs for that system this week and told to implement it
<jamest> but my understanding is that the gtk2 client is missing some features but is moving along nicely
<imoz> so the core mentioned in that document came from a JBOPS background?
<jamest> a what?
<imoz> JD Edwards/Baan/Oracle/Peoplesoft/SAP
<imoz> high end ERP background
<jamest> a little of everything, my experiece is with a home grown erp at a mfg plant
<jamest> using oracle and their old sql*tools
<imoz> I come from the middle-market... I used to work for a Great Plains VAR writing custom enhancements for clients, and I was working for a company called BusinessVision until they closed our office in the US.
<jamest> GNUe Forms is somewhat based upon the way Oracle SQL*Forms worked
<jamest> as both myself and jcater like that tool, however we've altered things we hated about it
<imoz> so I think an open source mid-market solution comparable to Accpac/Solomon/Dynamics would be interesting, but after finding Gnue I'm thinking instead of creating something from scratch I could use your toolset to do this?  Except I would have to learn Python :-)
<jamest> sorta
<jamest> our trigger system currently only supports python 
<jamest> but quite a bit can be done via designer w/o writting any triggers
<jamest> even learning python you'd only have to learn a small part of it
<jamest> we have a doc in cvs that give a little tutorial on it too
<jamest> should be in the next release due out any day now
<imoz> Great Plains works virtually identical to this.  They have a custom scripting language called Dexterity and a similar forms designer, etc.  Same concept of triggers, etc.
<jamest> i didn't know that 
<imoz> of course then they got bought by M$ and are now porting to .NET...
<imoz> yeah it works very similarly.  Of course you have to buy a very expensive site license to use the modified code and only dealers get access to the Dexterity tools.
<ra3vat> jamest: i did rerun setup-cvs.py and now have issue
<jamest> grib: we're getting lots of win32 patches it seems and gtk2 patches so it may work better than I think
<jamest> ra3vat?
<ra3vat> .cvsdevelbase/gnue/__init__.py is a broken link and reference gnue/common/gnue/__init__.py
<grib> jamest: good to know
<jamest> pwd
<jamest> ra3vat: could you blow away your .cvsdevelbase dir and rerun
<jamest> the setup-cvs.py
<ra3vat> did that already, the same thing
<jamest> i had jcater working on some stuff for me last nite (the fool asked what needed done.)
<jamest> i didn't think he'd chack it in though :)
<jamest> ra3vat: hang on, i'll look at it in a sec
<jamest> gotta commit btami's designer fix
<ra3vat>  /.cvsdevelbase/gnue/gnue empty dir
<jamest> alrighty then, lets see wazzup
<jamest> that's not a good thing
<ra3vat> the link points to  gnue/common/gnue/__init__.py instead of  gnue/common/src/__init__.py
<imoz> Ok, I just did File-->New-->from Wizard, picked multi-block, page form; and then put in a title "CUSTOMER MASTER",  I click next and its asking me to log in to the development database.
<jamest> yip
<imoz> Can I install the "AppServer" on Win32?
<jamest> imoz: the appserver isn't ready for real use yet
<imoz> but then, how do I access the "development database"?  I have MySQL running, but it didn't create a new database when I installed the Gnue-Tools
<jamest> those database optoins are setup in your connections.conf file
<jamest> you can put as many as you like and connect to various databases, appserver, etc
<jamest> then they are available in that dropdown you're looking at
<imoz> will it create the database for me?
<jamest> no
<jamest> well maybe
<jamest> last release == no
<imoz> ok, I looked at the sample config file in program files\gnue\etc
<imoz> if I create a blank developer database
<jamest> cvs has the start of gsd files (gnue schema definition)
<imoz> it should work?
<jamest> the wizards all build from existing table structures
<jamest> so you'd have to have the database and tables already there
<imoz> oh
<jamest> the table creation options are starting to appear in designer
<jamest> you'l l find a create schema from form option on one of the menus now
<jamest> but I have no clue how well it works
<jamest> or if it works
<imoz> trying now...
<jamest> ra3vat: than's odd
<jamest> that's
<jamest> it's actually not changed 
<jamest> something else has
<ra3vat> jamest: do you see the problem or it is only on my side?
<jamest> i see it on todays cvs
<jamest> but my install from  a few days ago has same structure and works fine
<jamest> right down to the empty gnue dir :)
<ra3vat> jamest: and after i correct the link - simple forms work, mine no
<ra3vat> DB000:   File "/usr/local/src/cvs/gnue/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFDisplayHandler.py", line 690,
<ra3vat> in _buildDisplayHelper
<ra3vat> DB000:     return self.entry._allowedValues[str(value)]
<ra3vat> DB000: TypeError: unsubscriptable object
<jamest> sigh
<ra3vat> seems the same i had in w98 yesterday but had no time to look closer
<jamest> i assume that self.entry._allowedValues is set to None
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<jamest> wow, i just don't see where that changed
<imoz> well I didn't have any tables in developer, so I hooked it to my postnuke database :-)  this is pretty powerful
Action: derek is back (gone 07:35:36)
<imoz> I can't complete the wizard for a 'multipage' form but the simple form wizard works
<imoz> when i do Debug->Run it tells me there is no attribute "runFormFromTrigger"
<jamest> imoz: what fails the the multipage?
<jamest> debug->run i think is toast
<imoz> yeah the multipage
<jamest> i can try and fix it a bit
<jamest> ooo, wait
<jamest> you mean you can't run the multipage form after it completes, or that it never completes?
<imoz> I am able to put in the title of the form, specify the table I want to use, then it asks me if I want to add another table and if I want it on a new page
dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
<imoz> clicking Continue generates an error in the console window
<jamest> can you give me error?
<jamest> imoz: you are running cvs right?
<imoz> I am running "GNUe-Tools-0.4.0a-setup-debug-on.exe"
<imoz> :-)
<imoz> I downloaded it this morning to have a look
<jamest> ooooo
<jamest> damn
<jamest> um, wizards in 0.4.0 IIRC had issues that slipped by us
<jamest> lemme scrounge up some 0.4.1prereleases for you
<jamest> or make some :)
<dimas> how one can paste from damn dos window?
<jamest> dimas: from inside windows?
<imoz> can I just download the latest scripts from CVS and then copy them to the appropriate folders?
<jamest> dimas: there is a toolbar with a dottted box on it.....jamest can't recall if XP is the same
<jamest> imoz: no, our tools typically undergo major internal changes between 0.0.1 releases :)
<imoz> oh... :-)
<jamest> i'll have to build some as only source are availabe
<jamest> which means I need to install the windows tools here
<imoz> hmm
<jamest> it'll take me a bit
<imoz> I have ActivePython installed
<imoz> can I build it myself?
<derek> jamest: i think wx is pretty good xplatform if you have limited resources (i.e. better than anything else)
<derek> however its not perfect
<jamest> you might not even need to build it, someone added a run from cvs tree for windows a few days back
<derek> i think it has done us well... i.e. quick xplatform to get people interested and get us supported with little effort
<jamest> but, yes, you can build yourself
<derek> now that we have a bigger base i think it will be nice to see naitve, win32, gtk, qt 
<jamest> if you do that then I suggest you grab cvs copy 
<jamest> derek: the forms feature plan page has changed
<derek> yeah i noticed :)
<jamest> you'll find win32api next
<derek> i think its a good change
<imoz> ok I am looking at the 0.4.0.99-pre2 tarballs on the CVS browser on the website right now
<imoz> should that work?
<jamest> imoz: yes
<derek> i think you are sick for being eager to write one, but its a good thing(tm) ;)
<jamest> derek: i wanted to rework the gfd format to seperate layout from logic 
<jamest> btami asked for a feature that would be easy once seperated
<jamest> so i spoke w/ jcater about it
<jamest> we decided that the forms documentation wouldn't be that good if we changed the file format right after we release the docs
<jamest> :)
<jamest> btw - I'm writting a GNUe Common usage guide that shows you how to write non-gnue apps with common
<derek> grib: do you or linas still maintain gnucash or have you given it over to derek atkins?
<jamest> should make it into 0.4.1
<derek> jamest: yummy gcvs script is nice for such things
<jamest> imoz: if you can run cvs however I can (attempt) to fix issues for you in real time
<jamest> derek: yeah, but that'll probably  go away too 
<jamest> the code exists to make gnue self aware of it's install 
<jamest> however we're having issues with distutils
<jamest> ra3vat: you here?
<dimas> yes
<jamest> try replaceing that sym link to __init__.py
<derek> dimas: multi personality like moi now a days :)
<jamest> with just an empty __init__.py via touch
<dimas> jamest: can't find how to paste into xchat now
<grib> derek: linas still has nominal control (and is sentimentally attached to it :) but derek is really the main guy these days.  honestly I don't even have gnucash installed on my machines -- wife wants to use quicken/mac :/
<jamest> middle mouse button on the line you type on
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> derek: you get around
<jamest> dimas: I'm pretty sure you want that .cvsdevelbase/gnue/__init__.py to not link into the src dir
<jamest> as it's just a placeholder
<jamest> i have no idea when we lost common/gnue/__init__.py as my copy is ancient
<jcater> last night
<jamest> but it's just an empty file
Action: jcater will fix
<jamest> jcater: i already did
<jamest> replaced with a touch 
<grib> derek: my developers made lots and lots of contributions a while back, but we are in the process of starting over for our stuff -- too much cruft in gnucash
<jcater> oh
<grib> derek: which is why i've been hanging around here more lately :)
<jamest> jcater: that OK?
<jcater> if it works, I guess so :)
<dimas> jamest: middle button work that way under w98?
<derek> why start over, use gnue ;)
<jamest> dimas: depends on the x server
<jamest> try both buttons to simulate middle click
<imoz> ok, I am confused.  I downloaded GNUe-Designer-0.4.0.99-pre2.zip, then from a console window ran setup.py install.  It put everything in C:\Python22
<derek> jamest have you had psu integrate your feature maps into the website?
<jamest> no, as I don't think they're ready
<imoz> I guess I need to do this for all of the source packages for this to work?
<imoz> :-)
<jamest> imoz: if you run the cvs copy there is a script
<jamest> i think that fakes the install on windows
<grib> derek: it's possible.  there's a lot of overlap, and some of the stuff you guys have done looks really nice.  
grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> ra3vat: any luck?
<derek> grib: we have a ways to go, but i think we have some solid stuff 
<imoz> I don't have a CVS client for windows
<ra3vat> jamest: and what about  _allowedValues? how is that my form require something to define?
<jamest> ra3vat: i'm looking now
<imoz> ok, using the web access I see a script in the root of the cvs, setup-cvs-win.py
<imoz> is that the script?
<jamest> yeah
<jamest> but you have to have the whole cvs tree
<derek> imoz: be warned that is VERY new
<derek> and likely could have buglets :)
<jamest> jcater: you happen to have your windows setup there to do exe's?
<derek> but several people have used it successfully
<jcater> jamest: not really
<derek> jamest: i can create a setup farm for windows at work
<derek> if someone tells me the stuff i need
<jamest> derek: don't touch it
<jamest> derek: don't you dare
<jamest> derek: as we both know what will happen
<imoz> ok, how can I easily download the entire CVS tree from Windows? :-)
<jcater> imoz: one of two things
<jamest> <derek>: um, is the thing supposed to blow the monitor, set off the burger alarm, and cause my cat to get zits?
<jcater> grab wincvs or something similar and download
<jcater> or you can grab a snapshot of last night's cvs at
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/snapshots.php
<jcater> (there are .ZIP files there)
<imoz> well I just downloaded all the -0.4.0.99pre2 .ZIP files, will this script work with those?
<jcater> I don't know much about the setup-cvs-win script
<jamest> ra3vat: you have a dropdown on your form?
<ra3vat> jamest: many of the sample forms work mine complains about allowedValues (see above) but it worked yesterday. what inside a form may cause this?
<ra3vat> yes i have
<jamest> that's where things are going bad
<jamest> as dropdowns do define the _allowedValues
<imoz> ok much easier, I am downloading gnue-cvs-current.zip
<jamest> is your dropdown values being puleed from a query or a static datasource?
<ra3vat> i have both
<jamest> ra3vat: have you tried replacing that __init__.py yet?
Action: jamest doesn't think having the common __init__.py would effect the install in any way but wants to make sure
<ra3vat> yes, without that form did not start at all
<jamest> i mean with a blank file not a link into common/src
<ra3vat> i did blank
<jamest> can you confirm that the tables you're pulling dropdowns from contain data?
<jamest> better yet
<jamest> let me find a sample dropdown form here and see if I can reproduce
<ra3vat> i have simple form with one entry. i get the same error as only add style="dropdown" to it
<jamest> ra3vat: you need to have on that entry the attributes
<jamest> fk_description , fk_key, fk_source
<ra3vat> what attibutes?
<jamest> without them it won't populate the allowedValues IIRC
<jamest> try this form
<jamest> gnue/common/utils/connection.gfd
<ra3vat> ok, but i have all this in main form and it worked, checking now
<imoz> ugg, PythonDotNet won't build on the v1 framework sdk.  I suppose there won't be a way to compile Gnue for .NET unless wxWindows is ported anyway
<jamest> well, until we get the win32 ui driver up
<jamest> but i doubt we'll see designer redone in win32 api :(
<ra3vat> jamest: sorry, it was my fault, i've added one more entry wanting it to be dropdown but without needed attibutes
<jamest> ra3vat: I will add check for this
ariel__ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-73.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
<imoz> does the Reports designer work in the latest cvs snapshot?
<derek> no
grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) left irc: Connection reset by peer
grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> it does in cvs
<jamest> but that's as of like 8:15AM today
<imoz> I am downloading the latest "hourly" snapshot
<jcater> jamest???
<jcater> we don't have a reports designer yet
<jcater> unless someone was a coding machine last night :)
<jamest> not graphically
<jcater> we have a report wizard
<jcater> but no visual designer
<jamest> but the wizard will spit out a basic report
<jamest> sorry, i was mis-stating our support
<derek> jcater: you have to watch him, i think im rubbing off on him :)
<jcater> no shit
<jamest> not intentionally
<imoz> well here's what I was thinking of doing to try this out
Action: jcater was about to ask if there were two dereks here today :)
Action: jamest is multitasking
<imoz> on my desktop I was going to load up my demo version of Great Plains Dynamics Release 6, dump out the customer master tables from MS SQL Server
<imoz> load them into MySQL
<imoz> and try and duplicate the customer maintenance screen
<derek> bahhhh bhahhhh
Action: derek is plugging his ears
<jamest> imoz: the odbc driver may allow a direct connection to ms sql
<jamest> i'm not using it but I believe it still works
<derek> imoz: certainly you can do this, please please make sure none of it makes it upstream into gnue packages
<jcater> yes, that will kill us
<derek> as surely we would be in trouble
<imoz> hehehe
<derek> if you want to 'study' great plains
<derek> and learn from it great
<derek> if you want to rip and gut and use for personal stuff great
<imoz> this is just a test for myself :-)
<derek> just dont submit back as proposals to gnue (as we dont want to slapped later) ;)
<derek> imoz: cool
<derek> i think its a good idea
<derek> just making it publicly known we keep the code clean :)
<imoz> I am totally new to gnue as of like 4 am this morning so... I just want to try it out and see how far I can get with it at this point
<imoz> I also have a demo version of Visual AccountMate
<imoz> but that's FoxPro based.
<imoz> My initial idea before I even discovered new was to write an open source middle-market accounting package in .NET using C#, and hope it will run on Mono when that is further along.
<imoz> err new=gnue
<jamest> but if you write an open source middle-market accounting package in gnue then you can just hope it'll run
<jamest> :)
<imoz> hehehe
<imoz> What I would like to see is an open source QuickBooks like app that imports a QBB file and interoperates with the qbXML API so all the 3rd party add-ons for QB would work
<imoz> then a seamless upgrade path to something on the level of ACCPAC/SBT/etc.
<nickr_> gah, great plains
Nick change: nickr_ -> nickr
<imoz> Quickbooks-like-app + Goldmine-like-app + OpenOffice + Evolution + seamless website content manager/e-commerce = could be a powerful motivator for small businesses to use Linux
<derek> hmmm
<imoz> I have a DLL that I bought a year ago with a sample app, it opens a QBB file and dumps the entire database structure + data into MS Access
<derek> gnue-sb = quickbooks + manufacturing + goldmine + ecommerce
<imoz> :-)
<derek> w/ open office integration
<nickr> SB?
<imoz> I just searched gnue-sb on google and the only thing that comes up is the irc logs :-)  and a "kernel buddy" guide with some esoteric discussion about licensing issues
<jamest> it's something derek's been working on 
<jamest> i don't know details as I was playing hookie from gnue when it was started
<ra3vat> may i add ConnectString to connections.conf definition?
<jamest> what's it do?
<imoz> Will you be able to add images etc. to a Gnue or Gnue-sb form to make the forms look pretty for idiot users?  Kind of how quickbooks is dumbed down for the lowest common denominator user?
<jamest> eventually we plan to support image boxes
<jamest> however we're not going to be a full widget set
<derek> http://www.nongnu.org/gnue-sb/
<jamest> you'll never create quickbooks or quicken in a gnue form
<jamest> er, create that look
<jamest> my personal outlook on this is that widget sets are too complex for most issues
<jamest> and that I'm always amazed at the number of windows "registers" that basically has a telnet box open to an app running in text mode
<jamest> at the bank, the hardware store, the county office, etc, etc
<imoz> hehehe yeah
<imoz> Compiere apparently has a POS system, but it's Java and...I dunno there's something about it that I can't put my finger on
<jcater> imoz: perhaps that it requires jdk and Oracle licenses?
<jcater> :)
<imoz> so at this stage, no work has been done on the actual 'modules' of Gnue, just the tools?
<imoz> i.e. Gnue Financials etc.
<ra3vat> jamest: i'm looking into code that checks encoding from gnue.conf for additional connection command
<jamest> and this command would do what?
Action: jamest isn't sure what you're trying to achieve
<dimas> it's a local crap
<nickr> ahh, small buisness
<nickr> BIDNESS
<dimas> sometimes i need to pass "SET CLIENT ENCODING TO WIN" for postgres
<nickr> gnue has sqlite support no?
<jamest> gnue has sqlite support yes
<nickr> hmm
<nickr> no debian package for python-psqlite
<jamest> dimas: i don't have a prblem with it
<derek> nickr: mush mush boy, get it done ;)
<jamest> jcater: do you?
<jcater> um
<dimas> jamest: w98, prerelease-1 tabbed form started, i hit f8, f9 and data from all pages comes upon each other
<jcater> I thought that was settable in connections.conf
<jcater> you could add an 
<jcater> encoding = win
<jcater> to your connections.conf entry
<jcater> is that no longer there?
<dimas> yes, it works
<dimas> i forgot it should be win not cp1251
<dimas> jamest: then i clicks on tabs and all looks great but first time it all mixed
<nickr> I have have a local connections.conf right?
<nickr> *can* have.
<jamest> i believe so
<nickr> hrm, how do I specifiy a sqlite database?
<jamest> provider = sqlite
<nickr> right
<nickr> tehn?
<jamest> ah, hang on
<nickr> dbname = file ?
<jamest> i think so
<jamest> I'm looking
<nickr> hmm, it doesn't seem to find it
<nickr> er, it doesn't appear in the connections menu item in designer at l/east
<jamest> nickr what's the entry look like?
<nickr> [sps]
<nickr> comment = SPSnet Database
<nickr> provider = sqlite
<nickr> dbname = /home/nick/spsnetdata.sqlite
<nickr> thats in ~/.gnue/connections.conf
<nickr> I can import sqlite in python, also. Just as an aside. So I'm pretty sure its working.
<jamest> let me verify the connections.ocnf thing
<jamest> as I think it uses same conf as gnue.conf which means you can have local 
<nickr> it'd be cool if gnue had some sort of integration with glabels
<jcater> glabels?
<jamest> nickr try running designer like
<jamest> gfdes ----connections ~/.gnue/connections.conf
<nickr> jcater: its this ultra slick little label generator, with barcodes and data merging. If you could give it a gnue connection to merge from.. it'd be sweet :)
<jamest> we do not currently seem to support more than one connectoins.conf file merged together
<nickr> DB000: gnue.common.GDataObjects.ProviderNotSupportedError: No database driver found for provider type 'sqlite'
<jamest> however I think this could be added and modeled about the gnue.conf loading code
<nickr> doh.
<jcater> nickr: we're already there :)
<nickr> jcater: ?
<dimas> how to cleanly updates to prerelease2 under win32? should i remote pre-1 first?
<jamest> i would
<imoz> Where can I download this linkd.exe file that is needed by setup-cvs-win.py?  I am on Windows XP Home Edition and have fsutils.exe but not linkd.exe.
<derek> ok time to run to work
<derek> at least i got something done this morning
<derek> dcl is dangerous, you can find stuff to do you never planned on doing :)
<ra3vat> imoz: /common/utils/win-links.txt
<ra3vat> imoz: soory there are no links there
<imoz> my search on google says it is in the Win2k resource kit, which I don't own
Action: derek is away: work
<nickr> so what do I do about the no database driver found?
<jamest> nickr: that's a sign that something in that driver is broken
<jamest> our try except there sucks
<jamest> any error loading == no provider found :(
<jamest> give me a bit
<nickr> okee
<nickr> thanks
<imoz> when I search for linkd.exe on google the first thing that comes up is the IRC logs for this channel on nov 12th
<imoz> where it says it was in CVS but was removed because it is 'nonfree'
<imoz> i find it odd GNU makes all this fuss about stuff like that, yet there site Savannah is running sourceforge and gives no credit to them
<nickr> jamest: btw, I only needed two dashes in --connection, not four
<jamest> imoz: it was closed code that we were not allowed to distribute
<dimas> imoz: it is known feature for many other things :)
<nickr> --connections rather.
<jamest> imoz: it's on the developers page.....talks about being a fork of sourceforge
<jamest> imoz: as for the code, i'm not sure MS would have liked finding pieces of XP in our cvs
<jamest> nickr: sorry
<imoz> uggh
<imoz> is there another version of the script that doesn't require linkd?
<nickr> not a problem. :)
<jamest> that reminds me
<jamest> if they were just cvs deleted then they'd still be available via the cvs web site
<jamest> deleted files get moved from the dir they were in into a dir called attic in the same directory
<jamest> that way any previous image of cvs can be checked out at in time in the future
<jamest> I'd better go manually remove those files from the repository before someone finds them
<derek> imoz: if you have seen their code, its barely sourceforge at all
<derek> it might 'look' like sourceforge but it aint sourceforge
<jamest> derek: I'm going to fix the gateway
<derek> also nothing in the gpl states you need give credit to anyone other than via copyright
<derek> jamest: sucker :)
<derek> its ticket 150
<jamest> but I'll need you to test as I have no clue how things are submitted
<derek> ok let me know when its fixed
<jamest> but first I have to remove those exes from cvs
<derek> i have to run to work
<jamest> as anyone that visits http://subversions.gnu.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/gnue/common/utils/Attic/ could grab a copy
<derek> might not be able to test until tonight
<jamest> imoz: you here?
<imoz> hehehe
<imoz> :-)
<jamest> any luck finding a workaround yet?
<derek> gack its 10:30
Action: derek RUNS to work ;)
<imoz> worked great :-)
<jamest> i'm glad you found a workaround
<jamest> those files are now gone, hope nobody got them
<imoz> hmm.  the script tells me that it cannot find db2html
<jamest> does it fail?
<jamest> as that's docbook 2 html
<jamest> which isn't really needed to run the thing
<imoz> it tells me "Cannot generate documentation, could not find db2html in path"  then 'C:\Documents' is not recognized as an internal command...blah blah
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> i wish ra3vat was here
<jamest> i think he wrote that, or was it art
<imoz> I think its because I am trying to install it from My Documents\gnue-cvs-current\
<imoz> the path has a space in it
<ra3vat> no it is Arturas thing
<imoz> I'm trying to install it to simply C:\GNUe
<imoz> yeah that was it
<imoz> I moved it to C:\gnue-cvs-current
<imoz> however the script says "Installation finished successfully" however just above it I see the output as if linkd were run with no arguments/parameters
<jamest> this is really out of my league, i don't have XP at the house and haven't used linkd before
<jamest> so I don't know what's normal
<jamest> imoz: I'm really sorry you're having these issues
<imoz> well it seems to have installed correctly
<jamest> by next week we'll have a 0.4.x release (we hope) 
<jamest> with exes
<imoz> :-)
<imoz> i could probably make this a lot easier on myself if I reboot my desktop into Linux but... ahh..then I can't watch TV on my desktop :-)
<jamest> anyone here no dcl?
<jamest> s/no/know
<imoz> ok, so if I cd into \gnue-cvs-current\.cvsdevelbase\gnue\designer and run Designer.py
<imoz> I get an error line 61 no module named wxPython.wx
<jamest> you have to install the wx package
<jamest> www.wxpython.org
<jamest> our exes bundle everything together
Action: jamest really, really, REALLY hopes that after all this, the cvs wizard works from imoz
<jamest> s/from/for
<imoz> :-)
<jamest> i have to go pick up the wife for lunch...we're a 1 car family
<jamest> bbia1h
<imoz> ok
dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> morning all
imoz (~jmozelesk@user216-178-90-228.netcarrier.net) left irc: 
<jamest> dneighbo: where are the logs for that error?
<dneighbo> what logs?
<dneighbo> someone sent me email of the return email
<dneighbo> which i posted with the ticket
<dneighbo> im not sure the gateway has a log;
<dneighbo> if it does you would see it in the code :)
Action: dneighbo thinks that might be an option
<jamest> what was the ticket #
Yurik_ (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> 150
<dneighbo> iirc
Yurik_ (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<dneighbo> jamest: you get the info you needed
Action: dneighbo wonders if jcater has finally gotten his final python ordination
<dneighbo> thus he can not touch perl code or he loses his 'purity' ;)
<dneighbo> so he must hand down to jamest ;)
btami (~btami@3e70d738.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
ratmice (matt@vespertine.pc.ashlandfiber.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
btami (~btami@3e70d738.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Client Quit
<ratmice> g'day
btami (~btami@3e70d738.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> hi all
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> purity>?
<jcater> python?>
<jcater> you obviously haven't been looking at my code
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> jcater: what should getSchemaByName return? :)
<jcater> um
<ajmitch> for csv driver
<jcater> oh
<jcater> it should probably just call the other getSchema function
<ajmitch> right
<jcater> as one returns all tables, the other one table
<ajmitch> k
<jcater> but i *think* getSchemaByName doesn't return a list
<jcater> just one object
<jcater> I'm not 100
<jcater> 100% sure about that last part
<ajmitch> it returns a GDataObjects.Schema
<ajmitch> of which i guess i just set the parameters to whatever i feel suits :)
<ra3vat> i've got a screenshot of screwed form on w98. anyone want to look at?
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> wrote a simple csv parser last night that handles quoted strings & newlines
Action: ajmitch couldn't sleep :)
<ajmitch> hey psu
<psu> hi
<ajmitch> ah, __getFieldSchema
<ajmitch> here's where i get to make up field names, or read them from the first row :)
btami (~btami@3e70d738.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
<ajmitch> psu: what's new?
<psu> "Always comment code that you write at 3am, as not even you will understand it the next day"
<psu> not much
<nickr> It sucks when you do something really cool and clever at 3am, but don't know how it works the next day.
<jcater> yeah
<psu> I call it a "Xanadu moment" 
<jcater> reminds me of Designer 0.0.1
<psu> as per Samuel Taylor Coleridge
<psu> & the man from Porlock
<dneighbo> ajmitch i suppose there should be 3 ways (at least to do schema introspection on csv)
<nickr> psu: a stately pleasure dome decree'd?
<dneighbo> one is the header row(s) define the 'table'
<dneighbo> two is a separate flat file defines the 'table'
<dneighbo> three is an separate xml flat file defines teh 'table'
<psu> nickr: if the caverns really were measureless to man, that would be a practical use for infitine precision maths module
<nickr> Indeed
<jcater> four is it could be part of the datasource definition
<ajmitch> dneighbo: i thought you didn't want this to be complex :)
<jcater> ajmitch: he just says that to get someone to volunteer
Action: jcater ducks
<ajmitch> actually i did comment my code
<dneighbo> roflmao
<ajmitch> and i even understand how it works this morning
<dneighbo> i dont want it complex
<dneighbo> im cool with simple
<dneighbo> and growing it
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> spread 'fertiliser' on it & watch it grow :)
<psu> how is ash mail fwd done?
<psu> is it simple .forward?
<psu> or something only root can do?
<ajmitch> perhaps it's .procmailrc or .forward?
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.."
Action: psu is having a look
Action: psu had forgotten how much rubbish was in his $HOME
<psu> several tarballs of the website & similar
<ratmice> um, why does samples/testcases/datasource contain a form definition and datasources and complicates?
<jcater> psu: .forward works
<ratmice> er datasource/static.gfd
<jcater> ratmice: I didn't follow your question
<jcater> complicates what?
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-105.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-72-7.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> evening :)
<ratmice> er um it has 2 points of entry
<ratmice> like <staticset> </staticset> and guessing <form></form>
<ratmice> it would be much easier if they were seperated
<ajmitch> hi siesel
<ratmice> so that a single form could work with multiple static sets
<ratmice> hey siesel
<ratmice> i want to talk to you, have to leave soon
<jcater> ratmice: I'm sorry, but I don't follow
<ratmice> it's like a .c file with 2 mains
<siesel> hi ajmitch, hi ratmice
<ratmice> so in order to write a staticset file I *think* i'd have to write out he form which generated it
<jcater> a staticset is just that, static
Action: siesel don't think that we need to write to a staticset, but could be wrong
<jcater> it isn't updated by a form
Action: ratmice is actually working on a dynamicset
<jcater> ratmice: for?
<siesel> you can use sqllite for that.
<ratmice> offline 
<jcater> or, if you really wanted something even simpler than sqlite
<jcater> you could use csv files
Action: jcater shudders at the thought of doing that with forms
<jcater> but you could
Action: psu is away: I'm busy
<ajmitch> jcater: so i'm wrong to be using STATIC_DataObject? :)
<jcater> ajmitch: as your base?
<ajmitch> yeah
<ajmitch> class CSV_DataObject(STATIC_DataObject):
<jcater> probably not
<jcater> at least for now
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> when I was thinking about it
<jcater> that was my plans too :)
<ajmitch> it seemed more suitable than the DBSIG driver :)
Action: jcater has happy ajmitch is doing it instead, though
<jcater> definitely
<ajmitch> i been lurking around here long enough
Action: ajmitch wonders why file.readline() didn't throw an exception at EOF
<jcater> returns None iirc
<ajmitch> right
<dneighbo> well cause python is smart
<dneighbo> if its the end your done 
<dneighbo> why give you back an exception :)
<siesel> dneighbo, jcater: short question about GSD: Should all strings be a varchar (in case of postgres)?
<siesel> or a char? 
<ajmitch> varchar
<ajmitch> imho :)
<dneighbo> no char
<dneighbo> varchar
<dneighbo> or text
<dneighbo> string(length) should be varchar(length)
<dneighbo> text should be text
<dneighbo> binary should be blob
Action: dneighbo doesnt have cvs or doc near by
<dneighbo> can i ask what you are doing in gsd?
<dneighbo> we are EXTREMELY overhauling it
<dneighbo> so its probably better to stay out until its reasonably done
<dneighbo> or work very closely with us on it
<dneighbo> as if its broke mid stream i will get really ticked :)
<dneighbo> i have deadlines depending on its current course
Action: siesel tried to do the later
<dneighbo> plus i dont want you doing work that will be overwritten if its not going same direction :)
<siesel> that's the reason why I want to talk about it.
<dneighbo> cool, just clarifying
<dneighbo> we are moving away from xslt to a large degree (as you probably gathered)
<ajmitch> whereas i can play with stuff that nobody else wants to touch :)
<dneighbo> certainly it will be supported if someone wants to maintain it
Action: siesel thought that xslt was just the option for all the guys who want to have GSD but don't want to use python
<jcater> GSD is still a standard markup
<jcater> no more no less
<jcater> and we didn't want gnue-common as a requirement, not necessarily python
<jcater> even though, to get it working quickly, I am using gnue-common
<jcater> but that can be removed later on
<siesel> the only thing I'm not shure about is: why did you decided to make GSD using less datatypes.
<jcater> it was never intended to support those
<jcater> somewhere along the line
<jcater> it got goat-raped
<jcater> and all those things added
<dneighbo> um it didnt support a bunch to begin with
<dneighbo> the original dcl spec had one or two more than we have now
<dneighbo> but what wsa in cvs got trashed
<dneighbo> i.e. lots of datatypes added and support in designer broke
<dneighbo> i was in a pinch so discussed with jcater and we documented and revamped back to original vision
<dneighbo> i went to make new style sheets for XSLT and decided they were more cumbersome to maintain than a program
<dneighbo> so we are making a program
<dneighbo> certainly any XSLT stud could come and modify the XSL to make it a viable alternative
<dneighbo> not only do we encourage it, we hope it happens
<dneighbo> GNUe is about choice after all
<dneighbo> as for tying to common, im not wholly against that as with XSLT one can break that dependency
<siesel> so, if I understand it right, then the scripter thing is the replacement for the xslt scripts.
<jcater> for our internal use, at least
<siesel> I just try to look to the future behind that deadline :)
<dneighbo> yes
<jcater> our first priority has to be our tools
<dneighbo> but dont forget that doesnt mean someone cant or shouldnt fix the XSLT stuff (or that we wont down the road)
<dneighbo> we are not _closing_ that door
<dneighbo> we just choose to not walk through it
<jcater> I want to design stuff that other projects can use
<jcater> e.g., formats, etc
<jamest> w/o common?
<jcater> but that doesn't mean I can put that objective ahead of it being usable for GNUe
<jcater> that's just mho
<siesel> no, thats right.
<siesel> I don't really like the xslt's 
<psu> it's like the appserver for dotGNU issue
<ajmitch> hmm?
<jcater> psu: exactly!
<psu> we won;t discourage it
<psu> but 
<psu> we won;t compromise making AppServer the best possible business application server
<psu> for our purposes
<ajmitch> but we won't go out of our way to do stuff for those lazy dotgnu beggars
<ajmitch> right?
<jamest> ajmitch: the only person we won't go out of our way for is dneighbo
<ajmitch> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021114/161/2oheh.html
<ajmitch> SCARY
<jamest> in fact i think we go out of our way to get in his way
<siesel> I just have two concerns: 1. how abstract will GSD be? I.e. will it still be usable for appserver? 2. what about gsd->sql generation in dbdriver and gsd->sql driver in scripter.
<jcater> we wanted GSD to be abstract
<jcater> not to be an XML version of postgres sql
<jcater> with some translators for other dbs
<jcater> well, scripter is in common
btami (~btami@3e70d730.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> so the dbdrivers can certainly use it
<ajmitch> how would dbdrivers use it?
<jcater> ajmitch: are you asking me or siesel?
<ajmitch> either
<ajmitch> whoever can answer my question in a lucid manner
<jcater> eventually, a dbdriver can take a schema def and actually create the underlying tables
<jcater> schema scripter (the scripts in debate here)
<jcater> create SQL statements
<jcater> so the dbdrivers could just call scripter to get the SQL statements to run
<ajmitch> ooh fancy
<jcater> once again, though, in the scheme of things, is not a huge priority
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise.
<siesel> jcater: If I understand you right, it means to remove the schema writing code which is allready in dbdriver, and replace it with a link to scripter. 
<jcater> I see no schema writing code in dbdriver
<jcater> where's that at?
<siesel> there is some in pgsql
<jcater> I see a dict
<siesel> the code could be in dbsig too.
Action: siesel has a look
<dneighbo> i will be first to pipe up
<dneighbo> i still have issues with appserver being all about objects
Action: dneighbo still thinks appserver should be remote data/logic 
<dneighbo> not necessarily relational2object
Action: dneighbo realizes this is an entirely different discussion that likely will erupt wars
<siesel> its in common/src/dbdriver/_dbsig/DBdriver.py: _buildTableDefinition etc.
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> imho this is putting a lot of stuff in dataobjects
<jcater> I was hoping they wouldn;t get too much more complex
<dneighbo> is there a reason we have that in the drivers?
Action: dneighbo can see some advantages but worries about bloat
Action: siesel sees raping goat running over him
<dneighbo> raping goats dont run over, they well....make good salesmen for lube...
Action: ajmitch wonders if DotGNU should have it's own appserver compatible with GNUe? :)
<dneighbo> well im not against object2relational and vice versa
<dneighbo> but i would rather see us start small and work way up
<dneighbo> i see very valuable use of remote db and trigger access
<dneighbo> w/o ever dealing with an object
<btami> may i ask you (python mastas) something about i18n in general ?
<btami> i have a dilemma
<btami> 1. use sitecuspomize.py for setdefaultencoding()
<btami> 2. use uncoding in every place where it needed
<ajmitch> jcater / dneighbo: as an idea, specify a directory in connections.conf & have *.csv be a set of tables? (extension configurable, i guess)
<ajmitch> for CSV
<btami> s/uncoding/encoding
<btami> i myself used 1. before ,and i was happy
gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.14) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> but today i remowed my sitecustomize.py
<gilbertbsd> so how is GNUe?
<btami> to test for release
<ajmitch> GNUe is GNUe :)
<btami> and got errors from several places
<ajmitch> it is lurching along as usual (another release soon)
<btami> jamest/jcater ?
<btami> the problem with 1. there is only one place (sitecustomize.py) where setdefaultencoding() is callable
<gilbertbsd> so has GNUe been tried anywhere yet?
<gilbertbsd> ie deployed?
<ajmitch> yep
<ajmitch> afaik it's being used quite a bit by the main developers in production
<ajmitch> at least forms, designer, and reports
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> wb psu
<psu> thnx
<ajmitch> np
<jamest> btami: 
<jamest> btami: are you saying we need a way to modify sitecustomize.py during setup?
<btami> i don't know, arturas doesn't liked that
<btami> becouse it's not a place only for GNUe
<jcater> well
<jcater> imho
<jcater> in production environments, we will probably have a "custom" python install
<jcater> in which it wouldn't make a difference
<jcater> I don't know what else to do though
<jcater> without changing all file open() commands to a codec.open(file, encoding='unicode')
<jcater> which will suck
<jamest> i don't think a small alteration to the file (prompted for of course) is that big an issue
roblimo (~roblimo@pcp281688pcs.elkrdg01.md.comcast.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<btami> if we can use our sitecustomize.py with setdefaultencoding()
<btami> then no need for many *.encode(encoding)
<btami> and python do the rest
<btami> the remaining problem, how an install process gets the correct encoding
<btami> maybe a popup like in a debian install
<jamest> i think it'd have to be
<jamest> as this is different from the locale setting isn't it?
<btami> yes
<btami> LC_ALL=hu_HU
<btami> encoding in python is ISO8859-2
<btami> or cp1250
<btami> for me
<btami> s/ISO/iso
pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> python can grab encoding from XP/2000 and from LC_ALL in *nix
<jcater> btami: can, or does by default?
Action: jcater is curious
<btami> my sitecustomize.py in XP/2000:
<btami> import sys, locale
<btami> loc = locale.getdefaultlocale()
<btami> if loc[1]:
<btami>   sys.setdefaultencoding(loc[1])
<btami> locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, '')
<btami> print 'Default encoding: %s' %sys.getdefaultencoding()
<btami> print 'Locale conventions: %s' %locale.localeconv()
<btami> it does
<btami> i don't know how about win9x
<jcater> is that your custom sitecustomize.py, or the one installed by default?
<btami> it's my custom
<jcater> I really hate that you can't change encoding in your app
<btami> there no sitecustomize.py exist per default
<jcater> that is a really bizarre design decision for python to make
<jcater> :(
<btami> s/there/there is
<dneighbo> upgrade tiem bbl
dneighbo (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<btami> so i don't no what is the best way to go
<btami> sitesustomize.py or use of .encode(encoding)
StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-17.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> hi StyXman
<StyXman> jcater: do you remember what I did to 'fix' the bug that prevented to use parameters in 'on-startup' trigger?
<StyXman> (hi btami)
<jcater> StyXman: yes
<jcater> and as it turns out, we had to use that isntead of what I wanted to do
<StyXman> jcater: you siad there was another way to do it.
<StyXman> ah. did it get into cvs?
<StyXman> 'cause I'm (still :( merging trees
lupo (~lupo@pD95428AC.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<lupo> good evening
<StyXman> and I hit my solution, but I don't know if I can take out and hope i'll find it elsewhere
<StyXman> hi lupo 
<lupo> hi StyXman
<lupo> what's up in argentina?
<StyXman> rains
<btami> StyXman: sorry for question, but what is your sys.getdefaultencoding() ?
<StyXman> floods from the sky
<StyXman> btami: _my_ ... ah!
<StyXman> btami: just a sec
<StyXman> our server reports ISO-8859-1, but it could (should) be ISO-8859-15, I guess
<ajmitch> hi StyXman, lupo
<StyXman> jcater: so?
<jamest> btami: i'd hate to see it everywhere
<jamest> vs in one location
<jcater> StyXman: I had to go with your solution
<jcater> mine didn't work liek I thought
<StyXman> but it didn't went into cvs?
<jcater> no?
Action: jcater looks
<StyXman> btami: no, I missed it. ISO-8859-1 is the right one
<btami> :(
<lupo> hi ajmitch, jcater
<StyXman> why?
<StyXman> I mean, why that face?
<lupo> StyXman: because it rains at his location too? :)
<btami> i want to see someone with non ascii and non iso8859-1
<StyXman> btami: chipaca uses utf
<btami> and not utf :)
<StyXman> ah
<StyXman> any russioan here? no european?
Action: siesel , lupo, reinhard, johannes are european
<lupo> StyXman: here, i have iso-8859-1 or -15 (locale is de_DE@euro)
<btami> but all isoxxxx-1
<lupo> what do you need? KOI-8?
<jcater> StyXman: 
<jcater> def loadFile(buffer, app, initialize=1):
<jcater>   return GParser.loadXMLObject (buffer, xmlFormsHandler, 'GFForm', 'form',
<jcater>            initialize, attributes={"_app": app,
<jcater>                                "_parameters": app._parameters,
<jcater>                                "_connections": app.connections })
<jcater> it appears to be in cvs
<siesel> lupo: did you tried de_DE@utf8
<lupo> hi siesel
<siesel> hi Christian
<lupo> siesel: nope. what's special about that / what's the difference?
<StyXman> jcater: in GFForm?
<btami> i want someone testing forms/reports/designer(vizards) with other than ascii/iso8859-1
<siesel> it seems to work only in uxterm, /me hasn't tried it with forms yer.
<siesel>  /yer/yet/
<btami> jamest: are you voteing for sitecustomize ?
<StyXman> jcater: no, forget it. I remembered it.
<StyXman> jcater: zanxs
<lupo> jcater: i see you fixed the setup-cvs2.py to setup-cvs-win.py
<btami> sorry, but west-europeans arn't good candidates for testing i18n :)
<btami> wish ra3vat/arturas here
<lupo> btami: arturas is iirc latvian and they use iirc western charsets
<lupo> btami: do you use iso-8859-2?
<btami> yes
<btami> and cp1250 in win
<lupo> ah
<btami> nevermind, i will fight tomorrow again :)
<btami> night
btami (~btami@3e70d730.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r"
<lupo> okay
<lupo> next test run for gnue!
<lupo> today, i'll do a simple master/detail
<lupo> hold on and have me test it!
Action: jamest grabs the desk
<lupo> okay, i've created a new table
<lupo> waiting for gfdes to start ...
<lupo> erm, after login, the wizard is sent to background. is this a bug or a feature?
<jamest> it's tradition
jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<lupo> DB000:     self._triggerns['runForm'] = self._app.manager.runFormFromTrigger
<lupo> DB000: AttributeError: Designer instance has no attribute 'runFormFromTrigger'
<lupo> DB000: ./gfdes: line 22:   514 Speicherzugriffsfehler  /usr/bin/python2.1 /home/lupo/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/${SCRIPT} "$@"
<lupo> Speicherzugriffsfehler = segmentation fault
<StyXman> wow
reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "This sentence no verb"
<jamest> lupo: a segfault?
<lupo> yep
<lupo> i tried debug -> run on a wizard-generated form
<lupo> hey cool, i can select all buttons in the designer main window :)
<jbailey> I lvoe the german word for segfault.
<jbailey> Pronounced in English, it really *sounds* like something bad has happened.
<lupo> lol
<jbailey> I got Marcus to pronounce it for me when he was here. =)
<lupo> it has been translated badly :/
<lupo> it literally means "memory access error", which is not even close to the coolness of "segmentation fault"
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<nickr> is there like a standard XML database dump format? Like if Iwere to export all the contents of a database into an XML file ...
<jbailey> I can't see there being.
<jbailey> I would just imagine that you'd give each field name to an element and dump.
<jbailey> XML is really bad for representing databases, though.
<jbailey> You'd have to dump a Schema at the same time to give you characteristics of each field.
<jbailey> And XML implies that order is important.
<nickr> hmm, a normal overly-complicated xml solution.
<jbailey> Hardly.
<jbailey> It's exactly the right level of complexity.
<jbailey> The problem with tab or CSV is that it's lossy.
<jbailey> You lose the details that you've asked for about structural requirements in the cell.
<jbailey> If you didn't care about that, then tab delimited is probably a better choice anyway.  It's easier to parse.
<nickr> Uh huh.
<jbailey> The other two cases where using XML is worthwhile is:
<jbailey> 1) Occasional Binary data, or data that uses the intended separators.
<jbailey> 2) Where you want to remove the relationships and build up complete records.
lupo (~lupo@pD95428AC.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1"
dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting"
gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.14) left irc: Remote closed the connection
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-105.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-17.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.7 -- Are we there yet?"
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@dial-213-168-72-7.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.."
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Client Quit
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hello boys & girls
Action: ajmitch has returned!
<nickr> huzzah!
jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
ratmice (matt@vespertine.pc.ashlandfiber.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home"
derek (~dneighbo@filter.sequoia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> sup 
jcater (~jcater@66.61.83.220) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> has the gateway been fixed?
<derek> i didnt see anything on ticket
<derek> jcater that was for jamest not you :)
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<jamest> derek: nope, the code looked good in the gateway script
<jamest> i'm talking to mdean about it now
<jamest> we're not supposed to put 'dneighbo' flags in any code that runs on ash
<jamest> but I think one musta slipped in
<derek> roflmao
<derek> mdean: are you here
<mdean>    $sql = sprintf "SELECT foo FROM bar WHERE baz = %s",
<mdean>                            $dbh->quote("Don't");
<mdean>            For most database types, quote would return 'Don''t' (including the
<mdean>            outer quotation marks).
<mdean> ja
Action: jcater thinks its the \ still
<mdean> it is
<derek> \?
<mdean> '' is b0rking it
<derek> where was \
<mdean> I thought quote was db aware
<mdean> if you look at the tickets, they're escaped as ''
Action: derek didnt look at the code only the fact it's bombing
Action: mdean is shocked
<mdean> '' works via psql
<derek> ?
<mdean> quoting doesn't look like the problem
Action: derek got lost here somewhere
<mdean> I just submitted a quick one (ticket 167)
<derek> look at ticket 150
<mdean> I did
<jcater> did 167 go thru?
<mdean> ja
<jcater> try submitting one with \ in the text
<jcater> e.g., 
<jcater> "You can escape a line with \n at the end"
<mdean> ah - gimme a sec
<jcater> I swear when I was looking at the example earlier
<jcater> it was bitching about \
<derek> jcater: yeah probably you are right
<jcater> probably?
Action: jcater thwaps derek
<mdean> 168 went in
<mdean> with \n
<jcater> oh
<jcater> bugger
Action: jcater shuts up now
<derek> cut and paste the ticket from 150
<derek> it fails at
<derek> I'm
<mdean> ticket 150 has a lot of cruft
<derek> i cant sent mail from here
<derek> but let me get one to fail
<jcater> yeah, 150 is hard to follow
Action: derek thinks you punks need to learn how to break stuff
<jcater> I know how to break stuff!
<jcater> "Derek, can you try this"
Action: mdean thinks you need to learn how to give small examples of breakage :-P
<jcater> why would I need anything else?
<derek> roflmao
<derek> mdean: i do 
<derek> actually im pretty good at that
<derek> my pasting was of things that were broken
<derek> i.e. those were real failed tickets
<mdean> did you paste the msg directly into psql?
<derek> no
<derek> i did minor clean up first
<mdean> do you have a copy of the original you could forward to me?
<derek> yeah 
<derek> grr i cant email well from here
<mdean> you have an im client?
<mdean> or /msg me
<derek> grr yeah to both
<derek> ok msged you
<derek> hey is website in cvs for dcl
<derek> i.e. i was going to modify roadmap some so we can get on same page and get .9 out door
<mdean> old version was locally, but not now
<mdean> templates/default/roadmap.tpl is the file to modify iirc
<mdean> derek: paste buffer overrun?
<derek> ?
<derek> doing more than one thing
<mdean> the last line I got was
<mdean>  Proprietary ERP vendors are unusual amongst proprietary software vendors, in that they often allow you some access to some
<derek> mdean thats all there is
<mdean> just making sure :)
<derek> that is multiple email
<derek> the mail to the gateway is within that
<derek> and it had an attachment
<mdean> DBD::Pg::st execute failed: ERROR:  Unicode >= 0x10000 is not
<mdean>     supoorted at /etc/postfix/dcl-gateway.pl line 445
<derek> you get that from a log somewhere?
<mdean> from the returned mail
<mdean> yup - that's it
<mdean> his sig
<mdean> Linköping universit
<mdean> special char
<mdean> I removed that and it went in
<derek> can we support unicode?
<derek> as we have LOTS of non us folks submitting tickets
<jcater> derek: ha!
<mdean> I know - never tried it personally with pgsql/DBI/PERL, so I'm not sure what all is involved
Action: jcater chants, "I told you so"
Action: jcater goes back to his little corner and plays quietly again
<mdean> hehe
<derek> jcater: i couldnt find a unicode piece in there
<derek> even if we could 'find' them and remove them
<derek> or such
<derek> mdean: if you are bored want to fix attachments too :)
<mdean> I told you what was wrong when we talked about it last, but you didn't respond
<mdean> it still broke?
<derek> attachments work for normal system but not gateway
<derek> i dont recall what you suggested or if i did it
Action: derek thinks it was in a bad place
<mdean> ah - yes, it was a dcl configuration config
<derek> and needed to be moved
<derek> or something
<derek> i think anything we find needs to be addressed by jbailey in the debian install
<derek> as by default it should setup correct directories for attachments when installing the deb
<mdean> what's the server addy again?
<derek> gnuenterprise.org
<mdean> now I remember - you need to set the Path For Files to the absolute path under System Configuration
<mdean> it's currently a . iirc
<mdean> which won't fly well when the script is running
<derek> ah
<derek> ok
<derek> shoudl it be
<derek> http://domain/path/to/place
<derek> or susch
<derek> or /path/to/place
<mdean> according to your filesystem
<mdean> ja
<derek> i put
<derek>  /usr/share/dcl/www/attachments/
<derek> for (path to files)
<derek> and still tickets dont show up
<mdean> just to the www 
<derek> ah
<mdean> it automatically adds attachments
<derek> with / or w/o /
<mdean> cause there are other types of files, like project templates
<mdean> without
<derek> at least we are positioning dcl to get ready for the beating 0.4.1 and 0.5.0 will produce ;)
<mdean> ja
<mdean> as soon as you get it upgraded, I'm going to make a 1.0 dcl project
<derek> hmmm still doesnt seem to work
<mdean> does your delivery agent user have write access to that directory?
<derek>  /usr/share/dcl/www
<derek> beats me :)
<derek> i dont know what delivery agent runs as
<derek> jamest / jcater
<jcater> ya
<jcater> um
<jcater> but what about subdirectories in that dir?
<mdean> [21:30:16] <derek> drw-rw-rwx    4 root     root         4096 Sep 19 23:54 attachments
<mdean> [21:30:43] <derek> drwxr-x---    5 www-data www-data     4096 Nov 14 21:25 tck
<mdean> [21:30:43] <derek> drwxr-x---    4 www-data www-data     4096 Sep 16 22:53 wo
chillywilly (~danielb@24.167.202.50) joined #gnuenterprise.
<mdean> tck and wo don't look hopeful
Action: jcater just changed their group to "mail"
<jcater> and set them g+w
<jcater> and am testing now
<mdean> groovy
<derek> jcater do you have new .exe's for the prerelease stuff
<jcater> um
<jcater> no
<derek> when will we have it ready
<jcater> I dunno
<chillywilly> foo
<jcater> when will you have your test machines up?
<jcater> grrrr
<jcater> that wasn't enough
<chillywilly> hmmm, even with spamd my poor little server can't hang :(
<chillywilly> frelling bloated ass perl ;)
<jcater> oh, buggy
<jcater> bugger even
<jcater> I guess dcl-gateway doesn't run as mail user
<jcater> but as nobody
<jcater> grrrrrrrr
<chillywilly> how's it going dewds?
<jcater> woohooo!
<jcater> mdean / derek ... she's a workin
<mdean> sweet
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise.
<derek> cool
<derek> sorry at lug meeting
<derek> getting ready to leave
Action: derek wanted to test more but getting to talk about gnue some
<derek> reports are that 0.4.0 windows version on win2000 is very broked (i experienced same)
<derek> so if we can get some prelease of 0.4.1 for windows it would be great
Action: derek realizes we are doing native win32 for 0.5.0
<derek> but still we need an interim
<jcater> bug btami when you see him
<jcater> he's completely set up to do it
<jcater> fairly quickly
<jcater> it'd take me a while to get back set up
<derek> ok cool
<derek> bbs
<derek> jcater: you around more tonight or jogging off to bed?
<jcater> I'll be up probably for another 2 hrs
<derek> ok
<jcater> well
derek (~dneighbo@filter.sequoia.net) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<jcater> unless wife says differently
<jcater> bah
<jcater> he's gone
<chillywilly> the spamassassin authro should be goat raped to death
<chillywilly> author*
<jcater> ?
<chillywilly> it's going nuts agian sucking all my memory
<jcater> chillywilly: I guess some one should've warned you....
<chillywilly> even with spamd
<jcater> it stops pr0n email too
<chillywilly> yea, yea
Action: chillywilly grumbles
Action: chillywilly goes to get ice cream or cake or both
KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise.
<KeithJagrs> hello
<KeithJagrs> hmmm
KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) left irc: "later"
chillywilly (~danielb@24.167.202.50) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org"
--- Fri Nov 15 2002