roche (~roche@196.40.6.196) joined #gnuenterprise.
<roche> hi, what kind of skills are needed for help in this projects (as programer)?
<nickr> python
<ajmitch> herro
<roche> humm, herro , wtf? , /me stfw 
<jcater> roche: a good sense of humor is a big plus
<nickr> a penchant for GOAT BUGGERY
<roche> lol, :-) 
<ajmitch> you also have to be able to endure computer fixit problems ;)
<nickr> you have to endure endless bubbleheaded questions
<roche> buggery its a good beggining ... 
<nickr> dude, you're into goats? SICK!
<ajmitch> nickr: he's in #gnuenterprise. what do you expect?
Action: roche get "The Random House Websters English Learners Dictonary" , because something smell bad 
<jcater> oh, that's normally chillywilly
<jcater> but he's not here
<jcater> so I don't know what smells
Action: jcater looks around
<Varadhan> jcater: hi...
<jcater> Varadhan: hi
Action: roche finish download doc python , and said bye
roche (~roche@196.40.6.196) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<Varadhan> jcater: any plans for a new release???
<jcater> yeah
<Varadhan> jcater: we have setup a stall in the ORACLE WORLD with gnue + oracle9i + debian + IA64...
<jcater> cool
<Varadhan> jcater: can you have a visit to the stall in your free time (if you have some... ;))
<jcater> eh?
<jcater> I'm in Tennessee
<Varadhan> jcater: Oh!!!
<nickr> of for the love of...
<nickr> chillywilly left some trout laying on the heater vent again
<Varadhan> jcater: i don't know about the places there... is it far away from the venue of Oracle world???
<jcater> Varadhan: but, otherwise, I'd love to visit :)
<jcater> where is Oracle World?
<jcater> San Francisco?
<Varadhan> jcater: yes...
<Varadhan> jcater: is Tennessee far away from San Francisco???
<jcater> 1,800 miles 
<Varadhan> jcater: Oh GOD!!!
<jcater> but thanks for the invitation
<Varadhan> jcater: Welcome...
<ajmitch> SF is also a little far for me to go :)
<jcater> Varadhan: to show how flexible our gnue-forms client is: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/curses-intro.png
Action: jcater thinks we may actually have curses in time for 0.4.1
<jcater> if I can get these darn buttons to behave
reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> morning reinhard
<jcater> ******
<jcater> New prereleases (-pre3) at:
<jcater>   http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php
<jcater> These include NEWS and ChangeLogs files.
<jcater> Changes since -pre2:
<jcater>  * Designer's Insert menu was moved to Edit | Insert | <Widget>
<jcater>  * Setup.py cleanups
<jcater>  * Demo-able curses support in forms
jcater (~jcater@66.61.83.220) left irc: Remote closed the connection
btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ra3vat> btami: hi, a have a few minutes before leaving to moscow
<ra3vat> i would prefer i18n working without sitecustomize
<ra3vat> show me please where encode() should be but missed?
<ra3vat> what would you like me to test with non-ascii. I have them a lot :)
<ra3vat> i have pre-2 installed under w98 and gnu/linux
<ra3vat> be back at the evening
dtm ([YdUiiN5Ft@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) got netsplit.
dtm ([YdUiiN5Ft@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) returned to #gnuenterprise.
<btami> hi ra3vat
<btami> please try designer with simple form and report wizards
<btami> and add a some non ascii title in wizadrs
<btami> then try to save
<btami> then try to run form and report
fixe_ (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey psu
<psu> HI
<psu> oops
<psu> capslock fever
<ajmitch> WHAT'S UP? :)
<btami> psu, ajmitch: hi (BIG) :)
<psu> various bits & pieces
<ajmitch> finishing off this weeks KC? :)
<ajmitch> website work?
<ajmitch> other stuff? :)
<psu> other stuff
<ajmitch> k
<psu> getting my own website ready for its new home
<ajmitch> ooh
<psu> now I'm on cable 
<ajmitch> letting us have a sneak preview?
<psu> Basically, go thru' and fix all the absolute references that will break when I move
<psu> no real changes to content
<ajmitch> wget helps ;)
<ajmitch> it does link renaming
<psu> yep
<psu> got lots of mailto:s that need changing too
<ajmitch> ah
<psu> plus links to  my old ISP's icon library which I will no longer have any rights to 
<ajmitch> lovely
<psu> Of course, all the icons are public domain anyway, so I just go and get the originals from the Univ of Kansas & use them
Action: psu just realises
<psu> that's jamest's place, isn't it/?
<ajmitch> what is?
<ajmitch> hmm
<psu> Kansas State Uni
<ajmitch> yeah, it is
Action: Varadhan is away: I'm busy
coldcell (coldcell@ACB50173.ipt.aol.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
coldcell (coldcell@ACB50173.ipt.aol.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hi & bye mr coldcell
<ajmitch> people that join & leave...
Action: ajmitch thinks its much healthier to sit & lurk :)
Action: ajmitch wanders off to bed
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-225.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: 
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-225.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-105.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.."
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-105.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
Varadhan (~Varadhan@61.11.56.27) left irc: "Client Exiting"
Varadhan (~Varadhan@61.11.56.27) joined #gnuenterprise.
Varadhan (~Varadhan@61.11.56.27) left irc: Client Quit
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> madainn mhath derek
dneighbo_ (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<drochaid> ... and dneighbo_
<dneighbo_> sup
Nick change: dneighbo_ -> dneighbo
<drochaid> me, and it's only 3pm :)
<drochaid> feeling quite happy just now .. just sold 3 prints from a recent photo shoot, and I haven't started selling them yet [if you follow that]
Action: dneighbo is away: work
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-242-105.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
KeithJagrs (jorgre@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise.
<KeithJagrs> hello
<KeithJagrs> jamest: you there?
<jamest> yes
<KeithJagrs> I believe i saw in the IRC logs you are'nt quite happy with wx under win32
<KeithJagrs> what are the plans to circinvent this?
<KeithJagrs> circunvent or workaround
<jamest> well
<jamest> i know works being done on gtk2 driver which works under windows.....however what I believe you will see in the next major upgrade is a UIdriver based upon win32all
<jamest> my understanding it that is exposes the win32 api directly which will make for a painfull coding experience but should result in us getting exactly what we require
<jamest> i have not looked into this really closely yet though (my last copy of the win api book covers the "new" api in win 3.1)
<jamest> :)
<jamest> do you have any suggestions for a different approach to the problem?
Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<KeithJagrs> hmmmm. well not really
<KeithJagrs> does this mean you will drop wx in favour of gtk2?
<jamest> i doubt it
<jamest> I'm not sure if you've looked at the code
<KeithJagrs> not so close i must say
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> there is a dir forms/src/uidrivers/
<jamest> in there you find
<jamest> curses, gtk2, wx directories
<jamest> adding a ui driver means swithing to that dir and doing mkdir newdrivername
<jamest> mkdir win32
<jamest> cd win32
<jamest> vi UIdriver.py
<jamest> <code like mad goat>
<jamest> from command line
<jamest> gfcvs -u win32
<KeithJagrs> gonna check that
<jamest> as a sample
<jamest> bash-2.05a$ cd ~/cvs/gnue/forms/src/uidrivers/
<jamest> bash-2.05a$ mkdir foo
<jamest> bash-2.05a$ cp wx/* foo
<jamest> cp: omitting directory `wx/CVS'
<jamest> bash-2.05a$ gfcvs -u foo ~/cvs/gnue/forms/samples/intro/intro.gfd
<jamest> forms now supports the foo interface which just happens to behave just like our wx one :)
<jamest> the idea is we don't want coders to have to learn the internals of forms to add a driver
<jamest> well, not all the internals
<jamest> they just have to provide code to deal with the events that are passed into a driver
<KeithJagrs> I see
<KeithJagrs> I still dont have something clear. about curses
<jamest> actually, you'll find this style of coding throughout gnue
<jamest> our database drivers work the same way
<KeithJagrs> can curses worl on DOS ?
johannes (~johannes@M701P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
<jamest> that I do not know
johannes (~johannes@M701P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
<KeithJagrs> btw: is this included in docs?
<jamest> designer also has plug-in system to extend it's capabilities 
<jamest> what?  how to add drivers and such?
<jamest> no
<KeithJagrs> yes
<KeithJagrs> Ii see
<KeithJagrs> I see
<jamest> i commited the start of a Developing with GNUe Common last nite but it has a long way to go
<jamest> the forms doc is on hold as we're about to make radical changes to the gfd format
<jamest> so writing a doc to make it obsolete didn't make much sense :)
<jamest> KeithJagrs: what platform you interested in running this on?
<jcater> KeithJagrs: I looked at curses + DOS
<jcater> went into "python" on a win32 machine
<jcater> and did "import curses"
<KeithJagrs> win32 
<jcater> and it didn't work
Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
<jamest> i don't think we're too worried about text on windows though
<KeithJagrs> well, it might be better than the current wx in win32
<jamest> personally, i saw the curses thing as usefull for someone running text terminals
<KeithJagrs> for the moment
<jamest> KeithJagrs: the win32 api is to be started right after we get 0.4.1 out the door
<KeithJagrs> also there are some companies working with accounting software that runs on DOS
<jamest> jcater: you agree?
<jcater> but, of course
<jamest> KeithJagrs: yeah, i know text apps are used alot in the real world
<jamest> i myself don't think gui == good by default
<jamest> however i think a dos text client would be a huge investment in time
<jamest> now if a person could find a python module for manipulating text then it would be possible
<jamest> but doing from scratch would be painful
<KeithJagrs> yes , your right on that one
<jcater> well
<jcater> the approach I would take
<jamest> what I do see alot on the street is windows apps running tn3270 or telnet to a unix box in the background
<jcater> is my understanding is that you can get curses libraries for win32/dos machines
<KeithJagrs> well my only interest for the moment  is  to see gnue running smoothly in win32
<jamest> I'm amazed at how often i see that
<jcater> so you'd probabl;y be able to custom compile a python binary
<jcater> I don't have the time to invest in that route
<jcater> but I imagine it's doable
<KeithJagrs> that would be good 
<jamest> ooooo, if we can get a python binary that does that
<jamest> then our existing packaging will just work
<jamest> KeithJagrs: we know that win32 support is a big issue
reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "No problem is so interesting that you can't just walk away from it"
<KeithJagrs> yes
<jamest> that combined with the desire to work on layout caused us to adjust our feature plans
<KeithJagrs> I have spent a considerable amount of time trying to convince a prospect to migrate to linux
<jamest> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/forms.html
<KeithJagrs> but he already boutgh MS windows and Office licenses this year
<KeithJagrs> so he discarded that option
<jcater> I think a win32 client will come along very quickly once its started
<KeithJagrs> they have 12 workstations there, its a car dealer
<jamest> 2 options 
<KeithJagrs> 2?
<jamest>   1) give us a little time - 0.4.1 should be out in next few days.  Then we'll start efforts on win32api
<jamest>   2) setup a cheap arse "server" running the curses client w/ putty on the win boxes
<jamest> it may sound sick but when I go places I spend time looking at their computer interfaces (at stores, companies, etc)
<jamest> i always ask myself "can forms do that?"
<KeithJagrs> heh
<jamest> i see option 2 happen alot
<jamest> which always strikes me as funny
<KeithJagrs> I been hoping myself that Forms run on those Ms OSes
<jamest> to spend XX dollars on a windows license to run as a glorified vt320
<KeithJagrs> yes, you bet
<KeithJagrs> me too
<jcater> I think we are *really* close to releasing
<KeithJagrs> Im reading http://www.gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/forms.html
<KeithJagrs> interesting
<KeithJagrs> when did you publish that
<jcater> this past week
<jcater> it's a work in progress
<jcater> that's a preview
<jcater> (but basically our plans)
<KeithJagrs> great work!
<KeithJagrs> why dont you put a link to those in the news section of Home page?
<jamest> they are very new
<jamest> several need filled out 
<KeithJagrs> ok
<jamest> fwiw - these are based upon kde's feature plan pages
<jcater> mixed with two guys twisted minds
<jamest> we didn't come up with the format (credit where credit is due :)
<jamest> yeah, we tweaked them a bit
<jamest> so i know jcater and I are ready to release
<jamest> so 0.4.1 may be today
<KeithJagrs> today?!
<KeithJagrs> great!
<KeithJagrs> jcater and jamest: you both wrote those plans? great work anyway
<KeithJagrs> It was badly need it
<jamest> yeah, beats real work
<KeithJagrs> hehe
<jamest> i think jan did the appserver one
<jcater> does it beat users?
<jcater> if so, I need a feature plan here at work
<KeithJagrs> I mean, it could not mean a lot of work to do but it's a milestone. Roadmaps are good
jwalls (~jwalls@146.145.164.54) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> roadmaps within context are good
revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> how about we add the feature plans to the site as part of the release
<jamest> revDeke: did you test those prereleases?  we want to release today
<KeithJagrs> where is the changelog, if its already written?
<jcater> each of the tools has a ChangeLog
<jcater> and a NEWS file with an executive summary of changes
<KeithJagrs> ok
<revDeke> jamest: gack
<revDeke> can you give me tonight?
<revDeke> wife has a party to go to 
<revDeke> i will put kids down and 7 and have from like 7 to 10 to test
<revDeke> we need windows prereleases
<jamest> revDeke: i don't think it's needed
<jamest> you testing
Action: revDeke is waiting to pounce on btami
<jamest> i've ran all my work forms thru it
<jamest> and I'm implementing something today pretty big using just designer and forms
<jamest> i think we'll be ok
jwalls (~jwalls@146.145.164.54) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4"
<jamest> plus I think we've time today
<jamest> my weekend is iffy at best
<revDeke> roflmao: i have heard that one before ;)
<revDeke> certainly release if you feel ready
Action: revDeke gets to maintain the 0.4.2 release
<jamest> i feel pretty good about this release
<revDeke> so if i find stuff and it gets fixed i can always release 0.4.2 :)
Action: revDeke suspects we will get to 0.4.4 or so
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<revDeke> as it appears 0.5.0 will be pretty major so likely will be a while
Action: revDeke notes 'a while' is a relative term not a deragatory one
<jamest> most of 0.5.0 shouldn't be major, we've been looking into it
<revDeke> cool, i havent reviewed the feature plans just yet (in detail)
<revDeke> i have been toying some with DCL
<jamest> it'll be major on the user visible side of things, but internals shouldn't kill us
<revDeke> so that we can get the feature plan items actually in DCL as work orders
<jamest> i think hiding all the new derek flags will take longer
Action: revDeke is thinking the win32 driver and curses drivers will be the biggies
<revDeke> not necessarily in 'dev' time
<revDeke> but in testing time
<revDeke> assuming basic curses support didnt make it into 0.4.1
<jamest> i'm pretty sure it will be _almost_ feature complete for 0.4.1
<jamest> but I haven't tested in a few days
<revDeke> cool
<revDeke> i dont think it needs to be 'complete' for 0.4.1 just like i dont think win32 would need to be complete for 0.5.0
<revDeke> but more 'reasonably' complete 'first preview' give us lots of feedback :)
<jamest> i imagine 0.5.0 will have the new gfd format and maybe the start of win32
<jamest> the new gfd format will be a HUGE gain for forms
<jamest> as you'll be able to do l33t things in it
<revDeke> what is the major change in the gfd format?
<KeithJagrs> do you think  0.5.0 could be ready in the first quarter of '03?
<jamest> complete seperation of layout from logic
<jamest> you'll be able to mirror fields on multiple pages
<jamest> mix things about any way you like
<jamest> i think 0.5.0 is this year
<jamest> it's become an itch we've got to scratch
<jamest> you should get a layout manager system as well
<KeithJagrs> this year? there's only one month and a half left to new year's eve
<jamest> hmmmm, maybe that is pushing it
<jcater> KeithJagrs: our history is to release either right before or on a major holiday
<jamest> damn, is it really mid november alread
<jcater> so we have christmas to look forward too :)
<jamest> i still think we can come close
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I really want to push the gfd layout changes out into the public
<KeithJagrs> hehe
<jcater> of course, I'd really like some donuts right now too
<jamest> we'll have to switch from code like mad goat mode into the ultr4-3x3tr3m3 code like mad jcater mode
Action: jcater plans on hitting this hard immediately after a release
<jamest> some of us may lose finger joints in the process though
<KeithJagrs> heh
<KeithJagrs> i have a question on appserv
<KeithJagrs> is it intended to have its own web server?
<KeithJagrs> like many python web frameworks?
<jamest> i don't know
<jcater> it reuses the socket server in Python's libraries
<jamest> it shouldn't be hard
<jcater> to serve anything needing such
<jcater> (e.g., xml-rpc, etc)
<jcater> but I'm not sure I'd call that a built-in web server
<jamest> as it uses common GServerApp IIRC
<jamest> which I believe still had the goal of providing those types of services
<jcater> yes
<jcater> it does
<jcater> (not just have the goals :)
<jamest> did medusa support make it in?
<jcater> it will
<KeithJagrs> medusa?
<jcater> snake-haired mythological chick
<jcater> causing terror
Action: jcater thinks that's in common
<jamest> turned people to stone
<revDeke> well 0.5.0 before end of Q4 02 would be great
<KeithJagrs> I know that part
<revDeke> while there are lots of holidays generally that means time off work
<revDeke> which means to a degree gnue time :)
<jamest> i get petrified looking at common
<revDeke> i think it would be good to have it by end of january
<jamest> KeithJagrs: search google for python medusa
<KeithJagrs> will do
Action: revDeke is worried about this gfd switch
<jamest> i'm trying
<revDeke> will we have conversion tools?
<jcater> revDeke: of course
<jamest> yes, for most cases
<revDeke> or open in design and save
<jamest> of course
Action: revDeke is only worried as im getting ready to do a boat load of forms
<jamest> I think we're pretty good about changing things and hiding it
<revDeke> yes i agree
<jamest> i wouldn't expect this to be much different
<jamest> http://oedipus.sourceforge.net/medusa/
<revDeke> jamest: if not, lube is cheap, right?
<jamest> it's worth it in any case
<jcater> yes
<jamest> this is something I wanted from day 1
<jcater> yes, me too
<KeithJagrs> jamest: thanks. I also found http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/
<jamest> it's how sql*forms from oracle did it
<jcater> jamest and I were discussing and decided we really couldn't wait any longer
<jamest> actually, ours will be better
<jcater> as the closer to 1.0 we get, the more stable the gfd format must be
<jcater> so if we are going to do a "correction" in our format
<jcater> we better get it on!
<revDeke> well i think major changes to gfd are better now than 1.0 ;)
<jamest> and the doc needed a final gfd format
Action: revDeke is excited about the change
<KeithJagrs> jamest: what you wanted to do since day 1?
<jamest> a cleanup/doc release then major change would have been a "bad thing"
<jamest> seperate the logic from the layout in gfd
<jamest> when I started I wanted something out the door fast
<KeithJagrs> good idea, indeed
<jamest> so I blended them which was a bad, bad thing
<jamest> but it was quick, i was just learning python while coding, i was young and needed the money
<KeithJagrs> heh
<KeithJagrs> what a novel
<nickr> aw jamest, we've all been domn that route
<jamest> Oracle's SQL*forms was the inspiratoin for forms
<jamest> to take a similar approach and improve upon their design
<jcater> dude!
<nickr> but you end up just spending all your money on gold chains and skintight pants.
<jcater> you realize with this separation
<jcater> I will quite literally be able to do a converter
<KeithJagrs> hahahaha
<jcater> that was my big hangup
<jamest> yes
<jcater> well one of the 2
<jcater> the other one is pl/sql triggers
<nickr> huzzah
<jcater> of course I could do a SWIG against PL/SQL C libraries
Action: jcater considers the tasks involved
<jamest> oracle forms kicked arse but cost big $$$$
<jcater> or maybe I won't
<nickr> don't things like postgres have native python trigger support?
<revDeke> well i think ultimately we will be better than sql*forms for many reasons 
<jcater> will be?
<jamest> we are better now in many respects
<jamest> very many
<jcater> yes
<jamest> in almost every way to be honest
<jamest> maybe that's too stong a statement
<jamest> jcater...sanity check please
Action: jcater slaps jamest
<jamest> thanks
<jamest> but was i right or wrong
<jcater> I think so
<jamest> layout they have us
<jcater> but I'm biased
<jamest> stability of the painter they had us 
<jamest> abilities of the painter we kill them
<jamest> painter = deisigner
<revDeke> well they do beat us on price
<jamest> forms is more powerfull than their client
<jamest> IMHO
<jcater> yes
<jamest> however they have a pretty slick pop-up selector we need
<jcater> we have python triggers :)
<revDeke> pop up selector
Action: jcater never could get that pop-up selector to work right
<jcater> we don't use it
Action: revDeke thinks this might be what i have been begging for
<jamest> i used it alot
<jamest> revDeke: it is
<jcater> revDeke: we *do* take patches
<jcater> I know talking to other people you might think we won't apply them
<jcater> but that's just not true
<jamest> we even apply a few of them
<revDeke> jcater: careful you might get some one day ;)
<jamest> as long as they don't break other stuff
<revDeke> i wanted a toolbar a long while back and added one that was so ugly someone took and made it right ;)
<revDeke> same thing with some datasource triggers
Action: revDeke knows i just hve to get something working so minimal that you guys panic and write what i really need just to keep my butt out of the code ;)
<jcater> not your butt
<jcater> your butt-ugly code
Action: jcater hides
<revDeke> i.e. 'oh crap, he is determined enough to actually be committing code, jamest quick get on implementing that and get him the hell out of here' ;)
<nickr> revDeke: thats a good strategy
<revDeke> nickr: seriously it has worked in the past ;)
<jamest> yeah, it works
<nickr> ruling the codebase by FEAR
<revDeke> as the thought of me adding stupid features i want is far worse than them adding the stupid features i want ;)
<nickr> a sort of cvs terrorism
<jamest> actually, you'll find that common/forms/reports/etc we try and make it easy for others to add
Nick change: revDeke -> dekeBinLaden
<jamest> we say it's to prevent people from needing to learn internals
<jamest> the truth is we don't want derek in there
<jamest> he adds a little trigger and goes away - we're happy
<jamest> he recodes datasources - we quit
<nickr> so why doesn't designer support sqlite anyway?
Nick change: dekeBinLaden -> revDeke
<jamest> actually, derek maintaining datasources sounds kind of appealing
<revDeke> no need to recode datasources its blocks that are a problem ;)
Action: revDeke runs away ;)
Action: jamest thwaps revDeke
<jamest> nickr: you mean the wizards?
<nickr> No, common doesn't talk to sqlite
<jamest> grrrrr
<nickr> hrm, I suppose I could use sqlrelay
<jamest> does it give error?
<nickr> yea, no driver
<nickr> and there isn't a drive for it
<nickr> at least not in my install
<nickr> maybe its jbailey's fault.
<nickr> driver
<jamest> you running debs?
<nickr> yep
<nickr> It seems like the driver should exist (if it existsZ) regardless of wether pysqlite is avalible as a package or not.
<jamest> nickr: i'll install sqlite and test
<nickr> the driver isn't in common
<nickr> in my install of common
<nickr> there is no sqlite/ directory
<KeithJagrs> jcater: are there any messages in the Small Business mail list archives? I get a 404 error
<jcater> jamest / nickr:
<jcater> that's because gnue.common.dbdrivers.sqlite isn't listed in common/setup.py
Action: jcater just looked
<nickr> fun fun
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<nickr> for now Ican use sqlrelay
<nickr> I think
<jcater> ok, updated in cvs
<nickr> how do I configure connections for sqlrelay
<KeithJagrs> gotta run. c ya!
KeithJagrs (jorgre@63.74.24.9) left irc: "later"
psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust42.midd.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> fwiw: in reference to our discussoins this morning about win32 curses mode
<jamest> http://newcenturycomputers.net/projects/wconio.html
<jamest> it's not curses but at quick glance it looks like it would provide enough features to make such a driver possible
Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise.
<Arturas> Hello
<jamest> hi
Action: revDeke shudders at wincurses
<revDeke> jamest: i think your idea of vt100 putty connections
<revDeke> to GNUe Server would be more effective :)
xetrex (~chatzilla@195.148.248.83) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> jamest: that looks so close to the underlying curses driver
<jcater> that I bet it could be grafted in
<jcater> so the "widget set" we have created to go over curses
<jcater> could also be used over wcon
<Arturas> bye
Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> jamest: but I wonder what the advantage is?
<jcater> as I don't think this is really "DOS" screen io
<jcater> but Win32 console IO
<jcater> I can't tell if that'll work under "DOS" or not
xetrex (~chatzilla@195.148.248.83) left irc: "ChatZilla 0.8.7 in Beonex Communicator"
<jamest> i figured that most dos windows are really nothing more than win32 consoles
<jamest> the issues keith had was client picked windows/office for the clients
<jamest> and last I checked office is GUI
<jamest> :)
<jamest> anyone running pure dos solution would probably be more open to other setups
<jamest> unless legacy app forced them into it 
StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-17.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> if they are in a dos setup
<jcater> we talk them into putting in an ltsp server
<jcater> and make the dos machines LTSP "telnet" clients :)
<StyXman> so, I'm finishing the merge. but I want to be sure we didn't berak anything. should I use the samples to tes, and that would be enought, or are better test somewhere else?
<jamest> hey, i haven't got into the curses driver enough
<jamest> but I swore it used panel
<jcater> I want to make it use panel
<StyXman> s/berak/break/
<jcater> but haven't gotten around to it
<jamest> so we'd have to form for winconsole
<StyXman> s/tes/test/
<jcater> StyXman: that's a good start, I guess
<jamest> StyXman: i think the samples are fine 
<StyXman> s/enought/enogh/
<jamest> StyXman: once you've merged can you get us a list of differences between your code and outs
<jamest> ours
<StyXman> ok, no more typos/brainos :)
<StyXman> yes! that's what life spins around these weeks :)
<StyXman> stay tuned.
Nick change: revDeke -> derek
psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
jwalls (~jwalls@146.145.164.54) joined #gnuenterprise.
ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust42.midd.broadband.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ra3vat> hi all
<psu_> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> hello psu_
<psu_> website updated with "Test our prereleases - go on, go on, go on, go on...."
<jcater> prerelease, prerelease, prerelease
<jcater> rah, rah, rah
<psu_> "Pre-releases means never havinbg to say you're sorry you broke it"
<psu_> "Pre-releases - when *everyone* gets to act like derek, and we're grateful"
<jcater> "Pre-releases - for the derek in you!"
<psu_> "Get in touch with your inner derek"
<jcater> "Pre-releases - they're not just for core anymore!"
<psu_> "Pre-releases - now 'I don't know how to check out CVS' isn't an excuse any more.."
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<nickr> haha
<derek> rofl
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jcater' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<jcater> mwahaha
Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jcater!~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net: Prerelease -pre3 at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php ... do your part.
<jamest> sweet jesus!
<jamest> jcater with ops!
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<derek> hmmm gnuebot must be broked ;)
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> does this mean I can quite literally kick chilly out now?
<derek> um yip
<derek> you can even BAN him :)
Action: derek did that kidding with him one day
<derek> and i didnt have rights to unban him
<jcater> rofl
<derek> had to get lilo envolved
<jcater> damn dude!
<jcater> does that mean I can ban derek?
<jcater> ?!?!?
<derek> no i have higher access than you
<derek> its weird mine is set at 40
<derek> i tried to give you and jamest 40 and it will only let me give you 39
<jcater> yeah
<derek> gnuebot is 40 as well
<jcater> likely story
<derek> so i cant get his ops removed :(
<derek> as im not hte 'channel' owner
<jamest>  /msg jcater i got $20 how much can you send lilo
<derek> i think jade was and his nick is no longer valid
Action: derek needs to have lilo change that
<jcater>  /msg jamest it's worth a lot to me, so I can probably dig up $40
#gnuenterprise: mode change '-o derek' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
#gnuenterprise: mode change '-o jcater' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<StyXman> question?
<jcater> answer!
<derek> no
<derek> thats a question and an answer
<StyXman> I see that almos all the DBdirver.py's have the same $driver_DataObject_Object._buildQuery method
<StyXman> they're all the same (ok, just the first few ones)
<derek> StyXman: good eyesight you have young jedi
<StyXman> I mean, is the *same* code.
<StyXman> why not move it to DBSIG_DataObject_Object or above?
<jcater> but they aren't same in all cases :(
<StyXman> 6 and counting...
<StyXman> cxoracle, db2, informix...
<StyXman> interbase..
<StyXman> mxodbc..
<jcater> if you look closer, they can't be moved up
<jcater> this is forcing the DO to not run the parent's DO, but a second parent's one
Action: jcater remembers this now
<jcater> e.g., 
<StyXman> ah, I see.
<jcater> class Interbase_DataObject_SQL(Interbase_DataObject, \
<jcater>       DBSIG_DataObject_SQL):
<jcater> without the _buildQuery override
<jcater> it'd run Interbase_DataObject._buildQuery
<jcater> not DBSIG_DataObject_SQL._buildQuery(self, conditions)
Action: jcater remembers hating to do that, but it was necessary
<StyXman> and only DBSIG subclasses has these new params 'sql' and 'forDetail', right?
<ajmitch> morning
<StyXman> hi ajmitch 
<jcater> something like that, yes
<StyXman> better, less work
jwalls (~jwalls@146.145.164.54) left #gnuenterprise.
<StyXman> they're 16!
<StyXman> done anyways.
<derek> ?
<derek> who is 16?
<jamest> db drivers
<jamest> StyXman: sucks doesn't it
<jamest> i did them on our side the first time :)
psu__ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> what do you mean "done anyways?"
<ajmitch> another psu!!
<jcater> psu_/ psu__
<jcater> what a nice tail you have
<jamest> jcater: he modified his tree to match ours
<jamest> i imagine
<nickr> should go by _psu .. compiler reserved symbol!
<StyXman> jamest: you're right. I'm synced till yesterday
<StyXman> took me 16 hours
<ajmitch> jcater/ jamest: sounds like the forms internals rewrite will be fun
<jcater> StyXman: darn! and we gutted everything this morning.
<jcater> just kidding!
<StyXman> and 16 dbdrivers had the 'feature' I stated above :)
<jcater> ajmitch: nah, not too bad
<jcater> StyXman: but you didn't change that, right?
<ajmitch> does forms support optional parameters, such as panel background colours?
<StyXman> jcater: I know, I hear cvs :)
<jamest> yeah, i think we left setup-cvs.py alone
<StyXman> jcater: just added our code... which touched all the DBSIG dbrivers
<StyXman> no, now that I think about it... I just broke it
<ajmitch> ooh, grid view mode for 0.7.x
psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection
psu__ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<derek> ?
<ajmitch> looking at feature plan
<jcater> StyXman: um
<jcater> dare I ask
<derek> do we have feature plans on website?
<jcater> why you were in all the dbdrivers?
<derek> i.e. linked from website
<ajmitch> derek: afaik, no
<derek> if not we should have under each tool package
<derek> where status is
<StyXman> now it's fine!
<derek> ajmitch: can you give me url
<derek> i have lost mine
<ajmitch> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/forms.html
<StyXman> for the multple ables support. we need (eventually) to pass a hint about which table are we talking about...
<derek> for forms what happened to 0.4.1 release?
<StyXman> (that is the answer to your question, jcater)
<derek> we should leave them on there as complete
<derek> no?
<derek> i.e.
<derek> todo
<derek> progress
<derek> finished
<StyXman> the new parameter is called qTable and is the last one 'defaulted' to None.
<derek> i think it makes for a nice history as well
<derek> or did you guys just start with 0.5.0
<StyXman> if None is get in that parameter, we fallback to the default.
<StyXman> I mena, we fallback to what 'you' were doing.
<StyXman> s/mena/mean/
<jamest> we start w/ 0.5.0
<derek> jamest: i might do some clean up of these as some stuff is duplicated or not consistent
<derek> are they in cvs?
<jamest> no
<derek> also there are features that are missing (i assume these are possibly not comprehensive)
<jamest> they are not complete
<derek> in which case i will throw out the feature and you all can determine where it best fits
<jamest> and don't go thinking that if you add it then we'll do it :)
<jcater> at least let us finish what we're doing with them
<derek> things like popup dialog box
<derek> or such
<jamest> 0.5.1 full support of everything derek wants
<derek> sigh
<derek> i said i would tell you features i see missing and you decided
<jamest> we'd have to visit AZ then :)
Action: derek never said would dictate where things are done
<derek> i.e. you could say we will never support that
<derek> we will support it after 1.0 sometime
<derek> or yeah we need that lets decide where it goes
Action: derek isnt sure what ...let us finish what we're doing with them... means
<jamest> derek: you have time now?
<ajmitch> derek: it means: "keep your hands off"! :)
<jamest> as we want them done for the release
<derek> i dont have access to change them now
<jamest> so if you do later we'll probably already have them tweaked
<derek> i have time to comment on them
<jamest> comment away
<jamest> but we know about the duplicatoin
<jamest> you may be best off telling us what you see missing
<derek> Switch to GNUe Common menu system after it's completion(*) 
<derek> is listed in 0.5.0 and 0.6.0
<derek> so is Complete Curses UI driver 
<jcater> we are well aware of the duplications
<derek> i would put in one or the other
<jcater> that's what we were saying
<jcater> :)
<derek> and denote that its subject to move
<derek> i.e. its planned for 0.5.0 but if it comes down to it, it can bail to 0.6.0 at which point it would move (unless the duplication is just an accident)
<StyXman> jcater: anyways, you'll se in the patches :)
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> joy
<derek> what is grid view mode?
<derek> there was talk of moving win32 native to 0.5.0 currently its in 0.7.0
<jamest> converts a std form to look like pgaccess
<derek> ok then one thing i think missing (maybe its a post 1.0 thing) is real grids
<jamest> it's a shut up users that keep asking for pgaccess on my systems even though pgaccess is slow and buggy
<jamest> feature
<derek> i know its an aethsetics thing but lots of people want it
<ajmitch> derek: see 0.7.0?
<derek> and if we dont add someone else will someday and likely not in the way we want it
<derek> ajmitch: 0.7.0 has grid view
<derek> which is not 'real grid'
<derek> at least not based on what jamest said
<ajmitch> how do you define 'real grid' ?
<ajmitch> i guess grid view is like access' datasheet view
<ajmitch> and 'real grid' is a grid widget in forms?
<derek> yeah but thats mroe a custom form (best i can tell)
<derek> im talking a native grid widget
<ajmitch> right
<derek> again this is high priority it could be post 1.0
<derek> but thats what im asking ... should it be pre 1.0 and if so, how pre 1.0
<derek> im thinking the blocks/fields things might make it easier to implement
<ajmitch> either 0.7.x or 0.8.x?
<derek> i question the need for a qt driver pre 1.0
<derek> but i understand scratching itches
<ajmitch> why?
<nickr> what!?
<nickr> you don't want total kde integration?
<ajmitch> wasn't one mostly written?
Action: derek wishes we could find some sucker to write though
<derek> like happened with gtk2 one
<derek> i.e. i would like to see a qt driver
<derek> just hate to see critical resources on it, again i understand the scratch an itch so its comment not a complaint
<ajmitch> Qt or KDE? if you use KDE then you can get fancier widgets :)
<jamest> thats all?
<nickr> should add a 'suckers welcome' sign to the channel
Action: derek thought you stopped listening as no comment
<derek> so i stopped
<derek> i can go on :)
<jamest> go ahead...I'm kinda busy
<jamest> but I'm reading
<jamest> plus it's easier to say "I don't see anything above worth adding"
<jamest> than saying "no" lots and lots of times
<jamest> j/k
<derek> oh most of my other stuff was questions for designer, but looks like its plan isnt produced yet
<derek> the three things i have there 
<derek> - good mask editor
<derek> - starting of schema editor
<derek> - trigger editor capabilities
<derek> - cvs integration
<derek> - project capabilities
<derek> - gpd editor
<derek> schema and gpd editor are becoming a big weakness i see as i am starting to write applications
<ajmitch> project capabilities has been started
<ajmitch> gpd?
<derek> project capabilities and trigger editor would be nice but i can hobble ok w/o 
<derek> mask editor and cvs integration would be gravy :)
<derek> oh yeah
<nickr> mmm delicious gravy
<derek> reports design capability
<ajmitch> for a trigger editor, would you reuse an existing editor or editor code?
<derek> these are items to think about when making the designer feature plan
<ajmitch> a good mask editor could have a set of preset masks to use
<derek> well i would like to eventually see cheesy editor so to speak as part of designer
<jcater> ajmitch: it does
<derek> or ability to include your favorite 
<ajmitch> jcater: ok, wish i knew that :)
<derek> ajmitch: correct, btw the mask stuff might exist, i saw something simliar when there
<jcater> ajmitch: you do now
<derek> but i never got it to work quite right
<ajmitch> i'd better check it out then
<jcater> oooo
<derek> good mask editor might just mean 'more polish'
<jcater> I never said it works
<jcater> I just said it does have predefined formats
<ajmitch> hehe
<derek> :)
<jcater> seriously
<jcater> in yor gnue.conf
<derek> oh other items for forms
<jcater> you can have DateFormat_MontAndDay = %m/%d
Action: derek gets ready to duck
<jcater> then in your gfd file
<derek> calendar picker
<jcater> the format mask can be "&MonthAndDay"
<ajmitch> cute
<ajmitch> derek: i think it could be useful - if someone is willing to code it
<ajmitch> not too hard for the wx driver
<derek> im serious
<derek> i think about every platform can support as well
<derek> i see it as nothing mroe than attribute of entry of some kind
<jcater> derek: would you like fries with that?
<derek> supersized baby ;)
<ajmitch> jcater: demanding, isn't he?
Action: jamest blinks
<jcater>  /msg jamest you go for the kneecaps, I'll grab the bat and go for the head
<jamest> it's easier to pull up a calendar/ click left or right to find the month/year you require, then click on the day ?
<jamest> that to type 15-nov-2002
<jamest> s/that/than
<derek> jamest: yes
<ajmitch> unfortunately it is
<derek> example... im planning airline travel
<derek> i want to travel week of christmas
<jamest> overseas i hope
<derek> i want ot leave monday before christmas
<jcater> rofl
<derek> and return friday after christmas
<jamest> :P
<derek> do you know those dates w/o looking at a calendar?
<derek> unfortunately i dont
<jamest> derek: i see the point now, thanks
<derek> its much easier for the application to show me a calendar than to hunt one down :(
<nickr> derek: what? you don't have an autistic savant who is an expert in the calendar system sitting next to you?
<derek> i was going to make a crude comment but thats not nice
<ajmitch> hmm, when was wxCalendarCtrl added to wxpython? is it in 2.2.x ? :)
<derek> re: calendar thing its not high priority thing
<derek> it was one of those ithink we need, could be post 1.0 pre 1.0 thats your call
<jamest> i think i'd rather see a plugin system
<derek> ?
<jamest> that would allow people to add such a feature
<derek> that woudl be fine
<derek> but i think its something pretty core
<jamest> as i'm sure we'll get lots of examples like this for various things
<derek> i would think it should ship with gnue
<jamest> i think i'm ok with it going in 
<ajmitch> right, so long is it's just an entry widget subclass thing, and doesn't require .gfd changes
<derek> not be a 'third' party thing
<jamest> as it does have a use
<jamest> i imagine that'll be 1.0+
<derek> im not opposed to abstracting it so that other things can be done as well
<derek> i.e. i realize there will be lots of similar requests some we agree with some we dont
Action: ajmitch dons flameproof suit
<ajmitch> what sort of timeframe are we estimating for these releases? :)
<derek> jcater: other thing on common/forms roadmap i didnt see (maybe its done in 0.4.1) was that stuff papo had on multi table datasources or such
<derek> ajmitch: there was talk about trying to have 0.5.0 by end of december early january if real life (tm) treats everyone well
<derek> i think predicating anything beyond that for other releases makes little sense
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> it also invites having large rotten fruit thrown at you
<jamest> the multitable write patch was causing some issues
<jamest> i can't recall the details
<derek> yes i know, but that is why i said i didnt see
<jamest> multitable read works fine w/o the patch
<derek> didnt know if it was resolved
<jcater> yes, multitable read works well
<derek> or if it was deemed undoable
<derek> or if it needed to be discussed what release it might be seen
psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu_> back
<psu_> I have added a "Get Involved" page to the website
<jcater> ooooo
<psu_> mainly for a link to a good external article
<jcater> does it involve "Send donuts"
<jcater> ?
<jcater> oh
<derek> we need a HOW DO I HELP PAGE
<psu_> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/community/involve.php
<derek> as that is number one question we get at info@gnue.org
<psu_> should be what you're loking for
<derek> hmmm this page might do the trick :)
<psu_> if not, tell me ehat needs adding/changing
<psu_> does anyone know how to get an iconbox back in enlightenment w/o middle button?
<jamest> psu: you link direct into forms for the feature plans
<jamest> maybe we need an index.html in there that isn't app specific?
<psu_> As I don't really want to rebuilt an XF86Config just for that
<psu_> jamest: I will fix that soon
<psu_> we need an index.php/html for that dir
<psu_> for the moment, I went to /forms.html rather than leave an ugly dir listing
<derek> Spot an error in documentation? E-mail patches to info@gnue.org.
<derek> dont we ahve a docs-support@gnuenteprise.org ?
<jcater> psu_: very well organized page
<derek> if not we need soemthing like that
<derek> i know there is a DCL product for it
<psu_> yes, we do have a docs-support - my bad
<psu_> I'll change that
<psu_> jcater: thanks
<psu_> ;-)
<StyXman> gfcvs-head samples/testcases/datasource/static.gfd
<StyXman> Exception exceptions.TypeError: "object of type 'None' is not callable" in <method wxColourPtr.__del__ of wxColourPtr instance at 0x8530df4> ignored
<StyXman> -head is cvs from yesterday
<StyXman> that was closing the window
<StyXman> with the wm's 'X' button
<ajmitch> wb mr psu_
<derek> other thing we need 
<derek> if it doesnt exist is either a 'license page' or better yet right on the home page
<derek> add somethign that says gnue tools/packages are GPL
<derek> as i know my pet peeve in getting new software is hunting down what license its under before downloading
<jamest> ls
<derek> we make lots of reference to freesoftware and even fsf, but i dont see clarification where we state we are GPL
<psu_> yep - most people should hopefully be able to guess that GNU* == GPL, but why not tell 'em outright?
<derek> it is in the mini faq item #7
<psu_> needs to be on the front page IMHO
<derek> im thinking make it part of items 1 and 2 on the front page
<derek> GNUe supports multi-language interfaces and non-ASCII character sets. The GNUe Tools are licensed under the GNU GPL <-- link
<derek> A set of packages, licensed under the GNU GPL and written using the tools, to implement a full Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) system. 
<derek> or such
<derek> i.e. you are a better word smith than I
<derek> so please take liberty of making it sound intelligent :)
<ajmitch> but you may want to reassure people that using GNUe doesn't make their stuff GPL
<derek> well for a few donuts we overlook any violations right jcater?
<ajmitch> as i've heard people worry about that before (interesting problem there)
<derek> true... maybe point to gpl faq as well
<psu_> well, the way to look at it is, if you did a spreadsheet in GNUmeric, would that be GPL?
<psu_> Is it true that one of the Powerpoint licenses bans you from saying rude things about M$
<psu_> or was that just a slashdot rumour/FUD?
<ajmitch> wouldn't surprise me
<ajmitch> but possibly /. FUD
<ajmitch> applications that hook into GNUe common, what license would they fall under?
<psu_> along lines of "free software declared enemy in war on terrorism; to be banned in all lower 48"
<nickr> I don't think its possible for a license to do crazy things like that.
<nickr> they can say anything they want
<nickr> but I don't think things like that are binding
<nickr> in a software license.
<psu_> maybe if they never sort out getting jcater's RentFree as part of GNU
<psu_> he can make it "donutware"
<ajmitch> nickr: the problem is that MS licenses fall under contract law more than copyright
<psu_> ajmitch: I would guess that anything that called GNUe Common but did not modify the internals
<ajmitch> essentially agreeing to an NDA :)
<psu_> and was distrib seperately with it, they would not *have* to be GPL 
<psu_> but IANAL
<nickr> I think that its gray, anyway. Lots of nonbinding clauses.
<psu_> obviously, we would prefer it to be
<ajmitch> for that, i'd imagine you'd need the license to be GPL+linking exception
<psu_> however, if I'm right, I'm not sure what the LGPL is for 
<psu_> so just /ignore me
<ajmitch> GPL+LE & LGPL differ in some important aspects, iirc
<ajmitch> i just can't recall what they are ;)
KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise.
<KeithJagrs> hello
<ajmitch> hi
<KeithJagrs> question: if I use a hosting service, and have acces to the shell via telnet or ssh, can I install python on my own?
<psu_> Anyone got any hints on my Enlightenment problem, then?
<ajmitch> KeithJagrs: i guess you could
<nickr> KeithJagrs: "probably"
<KeithJagrs> hmmm
<psu_> KeithJagrs: depends on your user's permissions on the remote server
<nickr> well if you have enough space you could probably install it to your local directory
<KeithJagrs> thats the idea nickr
<nickr> directory layout is essentially arbitrary anyway. :)
<psu_> involve.php now has the doc-support address instead
<KeithJagrs> what kind of permissions do you think I'd need
<nickr> KeithJagrs: nothing but ability to write to your local directory
<nickr> and compile stuff
<nickr> and set your path and other env variables
<KeithJagrs> compile?
<KeithJagrs> hmmm
<KeithJagrs> not sure about that
<nickr> type gcc
<nickr> and see if it works :)
<KeithJagrs> ok
<psu_> and what.php now clearly states we are GPL & links to the FSF's FAQ
<ajmitch> ok
<KeithJagrs> hello psu, you still on 28.8 kbps?
<psu_> KeithJagrs: upstairs, yes
<KeithJagrs> ;)
<psu_> downstairs, 600k cable modem
<KeithJagrs> upstairs?
<ajmitch> heheh
<ajmitch> why?
<derek> if you used common via 'import type statements and such' i think your resulting application would need to be GPL
<derek> if you used it via RPC it could be anything you like
<psu_> ajmitch: I'm not getting rid of the dial-up until I'm happy with the cable
<ajmitch> derek: right, that's what i thought
<psu_> & got all my e-mail addresses changed over, etc.
<KeithJagrs> nickr: ok. i type gcc and get : no imput files
<KeithJagrs> forgive my ignorance. does this mean its ok?
<nickr> Yea
<KeithJagrs> ok
<KeithJagrs> should I untar python on a directory above htdocs?
<nickr> into !
<nickr> er
<nickr> ~
psu_ (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("restarting X to see if I can get middle button working").
<psu> heh
<ajmitch> umm?
<psu> finally got middle button working by hand-hacking XF86Config - now I have my icon box back upstairs
<psu> time for bed anyway
psu (psu@81.98.44.42) left #gnuenterprise.
fixe_ (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> mr fixe_
<nickr> fixe_ needs his 't' replaced.
<fixe_> nickr: ?
<fixe_> lo ajmitch
fixe (~adam@dsl081-147-022.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
Nick change: fixe_ -> fixe
<StyXman> does this:
<StyXman> GFButton :  Invalid trigger  PRE-FOCUSIN
<StyXman> GFButton :  Invalid trigger  POST-FOCUSIN
<StyXman> GFButton :  Invalid trigger  PRE-FOCUSOUT
<StyXman> GFButton :  Invalid trigger  POST-FOCUSOUT
<jamest> is that our code?!?!
<StyXman> mean that I'm trying to call those triggers from a button?
<StyXman> jamest: may be not... lemme ask
<StyXman> I just don't know anything anymore :=/
<jcater> that was fixed last night
<StyXman> las night as in yesterday at evening?
<jcater> yes
<StyXman> was fixewd in GFButton?
<jcater> I thought so
<StyXman> GTrigger?
<jamest> ~/cvs/gnue/forms/src/GFObjects/GFButton.py
<jamest> self._validTriggers
<ajmitch> ah, such beautiful summer weather here
<ajmitch> (cold & hailing)
Action: ajmitch plays some more with designer
<StyXman> jamest: zanx
<ajmitch> what's the best way to set the default forms ui?
<jamest> we need to add a config option for that i guess
<jamest> you running cvs?
<KeithJagrs> ajmitch: whera are you located?
<ajmitch> KeithJagrs: southern new zealand
<ajmitch> jamest: yup
<ajmitch> jamest: what else would i run? ;)
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> we do need a config option
<jamest> i'll add it , just a sec
Action: jcater was thinking about that when doing the curses driver
<ajmitch> great
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> sigh, dropdown adding broken :(
<jcater> what?!?!
<jamest> latest cvs?
Action: jamest swore he fixed that
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/designer/src/TemplateParser.py", line 151, in setStep
<ajmitch> DB000:     self.stepInfo = self.parser.template.GetStep(step)
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/forms/wizards/AddDropDown.py", line 88, in GetStep
<ajmitch> DB000:     self.variables['connection'] == self.__firstConnection
<ajmitch> DB000: KeyError: connection
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> lol
<jcater> update cvs
<ajmitch> hmm
Action: ajmitch updated just before!
<jamest> fsck
dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> jamest: commit your stuff :)
<jamest> ok, i fixed datasource
<derek> its like windows near release time
<jamest> hang on, lemee finish the default ui
<derek> example:
<derek> windows_user: its broke
<ajmitch> k
<derek> windows_support: reboot try again
<derek> gnue_user: its broke
<derek> gnue_support: update cvs try again
<jcater> gnue_user: Great! but you broke something else
<ajmitch> at least we don't have to recompile for every change :)
Action: derek thanks that should be the new gnue joke
<jcater> gnue_support: update cvs try again
<jcater> gnue_user: You had a typo
<derek> hmmm car wont start... 
<jcater> gnue_support: update cvs try again
<jcater> gnue_support: Are you derek in disguise?
<derek> well have you tried updating cvs ;)
Action: derek does think its cool to see bugs fixed real time
<derek> it just sounds funny coming into channel
<derek> aj: updating cvs
<derek> aj: trying designer
<derek> aj: hmm its broke
<derek> jcater: update cvs
<derek> aj: fixed
<derek> all in a 3 minute window
<jcater> jamest fixed it, btw
<jcater> I just knew he did
<jcater> it's ESP
Action: derek thinks its like a jedi mind trick
Action: derek there is an error
<derek> jedi_cater: no error to see here move along
<dsmith> heh
<derek> its interesting though you know you are screwed if jamest or jcater says
<derek> 'can you send me a sample'
<derek> or
<derek> 'can you file a bug on that'
<derek> as that means we arent sure how the hell you are breaking it and it doesnt sound like fun we want to play right now ;)
Action: jcater thinks derek hears that a lot
<derek> nah you guys are too familiar with me
<derek> i get the "wtf are you doing"
<jcater> oh, yeah
<derek> or "how the hell are you making it do that:"
<ajmitch> umm...
<jamest> ajmitch: about to commit
<ajmitch> jamest: ok
<jamest> must make sure I'm not screwing something else up
<ajmitch> we're here to tell you if you do
<derek> you releasing tonight or doing another pre-release
<derek> and will there be a windows release for 0.4.1
<jamest> DefaultUI ok for the optoin name?
<ajmitch> sure
<derek> or will we be saying windows support is gone until 0.5.0
<jcater> I am doing the birthday thing tonight
<jcater> so I can't help w/release tonight
<jcater> and I think jamest is tied up
<ajmitch> is btami the windows release lord?
<jcater> so it looks like it's later this weekend
<jcater> though I might stop in and do -pre4's
<derek> ajmitch: my fear is no one has pre-release tested any windows
<jamest> commited the forms chnage
<jamest> now looking at designer
<jcater> I think some were testing under windows
<derek> well before you guys run off if you can create pre4's
<ajmitch> most people here seem to use GNU/Linux
<derek> i will test tonight in my gnue-sb work
<jamest> ajmitch: i assume you were adding to an existing form?
<ajmitch> derek: how's gnue-sb going?
<ajmitch> jamest: yup
<derek> ajmitch: good but slow
Action: ajmitch has to look at gnue-sb, the description looks like interesting stuff
<derek> jcater pounded out schema fixes YEAH
<derek> so for now we have the gsd's fixed and working !
<ajmitch> SB is what i mainly care about
<derek> i will be fixing the forms to match
<ajmitch> since we don't really have much bigger than small businesses :)
dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.."
<derek> ajmitch: you should go to the pillar concert in NZ coming up
<jcater> ajmitch: but I heard that New Zealand Corp was a wholy owned subsidiary of the USA ???
<jcater> that's pretty big
<ajmitch> haha
<jamest> update cvs
<jamest> same bug different location
<ajmitch> k
<ajmitch> need to run setup-cvs.py ?
<derek> ajmitch: how far is Auckland
<derek> from you
<jamest> ajmitch: shouldn't
<ajmitch> derek: other end of the country
<ajmitch> would take at least 2 days to drive there
<ajmitch> also costs $$ :)
<derek> 2 days
<derek> ack
<ajmitch> ok, got another bug
<jcater> ajmitch: stop that!
<jamest> that's ok, you can keep it
<jcater> can't you see we're trying to put together a release
<jcater> how are we going to finish it if you keep finding bugs?
<ajmitch> i get the dropdown wizard, but when i select an existing datasource (on the connection screen), i get this :)
<ajmitch> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/designer/src/TemplateParser.py", line 184, in OnNextStep
<ajmitch> DB000:     self.setStep(self.nextStep)
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/designer/src/TemplateParser.py", line 151, in setStep
<ajmitch> DB000:     self.stepInfo = self.parser.template.GetStep(step)
<ajmitch> DB000:   File "/opt/src/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/designer/forms/wizards/AddDropDown.py", line 176, in GetStep
<ajmitch> DB000:     datasource = self.__datasourceMap[self.variables['source']]
<ajmitch> DB000: KeyError: source
<ajmitch> my sincere apologies :)
<jamest> hang on
<KeithJagrs> ajmitch: are ther lots of sheeps near yout town?
<jamest> why wouldn't there be? it's NZ
<ajmitch> define 'near' 
<ajmitch> there are a number of farms not far from the city
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jcater' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<ajmitch> uh oh
<ajmitch> i won't report m ore bugs 
<ajmitch> i promise!
Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jcater!~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net: Prelease -pre4 at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php ... do your part.  or else......
jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home"
dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> ajmitch: i'm not going to have time to fix now
<jamest> as I have to run
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> no worries
<jamest> we'll get it in the next day or som
<jamest> so
<jamest> l8r
Action: ajmitch will add it without wizard :)
<ajmitch> bye
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: "[x]chat"
<chillywilly> or else what?
<chillywilly> that's what I wanna know
<chillywilly> what's jcater going t possibly do to me via IRC?
<chillywilly> tell me!!!
<nickr> push the button that stabs you in the eye
Action: chillywilly looks around paranoid-like
<StyXman> anyone seen this?
<StyXman> Exception exceptions.TypeError: "object of type 'None' is not callable" in <method wxColourPtr.__del__ of wxColourPtr instance at 0x8619a54> ignored
<derek> seems you are trying to make none do more than nothing
<chillywilly> a bad obj ref
<StyXman> derek: that's from yesterday's cvs
<chillywilly> wx cvs?
<StyXman> nono, gnue cvs
<derek> StyXman: you darned foreigners and your locales
<derek> j/k
<chillywilly> that looks like it is from wxWindows
<StyXman> chillywilly: yeap
<StyXman> but wx is from woody. the same that was always
<nickr> I think these flat screens are ruining my eyes
<nickr> I need depth!
<StyXman> flat screens flatetn heads
<derek> i will send you my monitor and you can send me your flat ones
<StyXman> (sorry, with so much coffee in my organism, I just can't stop thiking aloud)
<nickr> I know the feeling
dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.."
Action: chillywilly is ready for bed
Action: StyXman _wants_ a bed
<chillywilly> it's been a long week
<nickr> 3d!!
<StyXman> so, noone saw that message before?
<chillywilly> I haven't
<StyXman> it's closing windows w/ the X from the window manager instead of the 'exit' button
<chillywilly> ah
<chillywilly> still sounds like a wxwindows bug
<chillywilly> ;)
<nickr> I get a huge traceback after exiting my wxwindows program due to 'memory leaks'
<nickr> because of the call paths ... objects get trapped
johannes (~johannes@M701P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
johannes (~johannes@M701P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
<derek> StyXman: you dont have a bed?
<StyXman> is a 'recent' thing. I never got that one with the old gnue we are using
<StyXman> i have one, but is faaaar far away 
<derek> ?
<nickr> I have no bed.
<nickr> I sleep on the couch like Fox Mulder
<nickr> 'cause I'm cool like that.
<derek> nick you dont sleep so why bother with a bed
<derek> though since moving to oregon you do seem to get significantly more shuteye (or are more busy) than you were in NY
<nickr> I sleep on a mor normal schedule
<nickr> its hell having to get up at 7:30 if you went to bed any later than 11
<nickr> er, any later than like 12 actually. :)
<derek> nickr get up 7:30 same sentence... does not compute
<derek> i think thats about what time you used to go to bed
<derek> now its ajmitch's turn to be the odd sleeper
<ajmitch> hey
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> ajmitch gets the scalet S
<derek> just when you think its safe to make fun of him he shows that he is still awake at 4 or 5 am
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> you want me to fix bugs or not? :)
<derek> yes
<nickr> fix more bugs
<derek> but jcater and jamest messaged me that you werent allowed to FIND anymore
<ajmitch> no fair
<chillywilly> lol
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
<ajmitch> ok, gtk2 driver doesn't draw a box, and the login dialog needs to have the login button as default action
Action: ajmitch will get onto these :)
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> mdean: hi
<StyXman> ajmitch: had you seen mine?
<derek> ready to do a 0.9.0 release tonight mdean
<ajmitch> StyXman: nope
<derek> ajmitch: maybe tongith you can get me setup with gtk2 driver?
Action: StyXman is kind of desperate
<chillywilly> mmmm, gtk2
<chillywilly> ajmitch is my hero ;)
<StyXman> Exception exceptions.TypeError: "object of type 'None' is not callable" in <method wxColourPtr.__del__ of wxColourPtr instance at 0x8619a54> ignored
<StyXman> closing a window with the windowmanager's 'X'
<derek> hmmm code says 
<derek> if(user == "StyXman"):
<derek>   wxColourPtr = none
<derek> most odd
<ajmitch> StyXman: ah
<chillywilly> wx.NeverLetHimClosethisBugger() ?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: how am i your hero?
<chillywilly> working on gtk2 makes yo my hero
<chillywilly> er, you
<chillywilly> the gtk2 forms ui driver that is
<ajmitch> derek: what problems are you having?
<ajmitch> chillywilly: can you believe that i even got a patch committed!
<chillywilly> yes I can :)
<StyXman> well, my user is mdione :)
<chillywilly> who commited it for you?
<ajmitch> jcater did
<chillywilly> ok
Action: chillywilly was looking in the cvs commit messages
<ajmitch> the wx driver hardly uses the wxColour class
<derek> ajmitch: getting gtk2 :)
<derek> i think its now in sid
<chillywilly> so is gnome 2 :)
<ajmitch> it's been in sid for a loooong time :)
<derek> as i got gphoto2 and gtkam and they upgraded me to libgtk2
<derek> so i was considering
<ajmitch> wxColour is only referenced in the splash screen stuff, and getLogin
<derek> actually i would like jbailey to come around and see if its packaged in debian gnue
<ajmitch> derek: huh?
<derek> apt-get install gnue-forms-gtk2
<ajmitch> oh
<derek> apt-get install gnue-forms-wx
<derek> apt-get install gnue-forms-curses
<derek> etc
<ajmitch> it's probably already part of the debian package
<ajmitch> since it's in the same codebase
<derek> or if its just in the package
<derek> yeah but dependencies are different :)
Action: derek was hoping to be able to test that we got dependencies right
<ajmitch> doesn't appear to be in the forms package
<derek> its ok im heading out 
<ajmitch> k
<derek> will be back in a few hours to do LOTS of testing and bug submitting and checking in of gnue-sb code
<ajmitch> fine
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> poor jcater & jamest
<derek> i want to talk to you about your accounting stuff too
<ajmitch> ok
<derek> bbl
Action: chillywilly feels left out :(
<ajmitch> bye
derek (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5"
<ajmitch> chillywilly: then help out ;)
<nickr> it'd probably end up that the 'non main' Ui drivers' dependencies would be merely recommended, not required
<chillywilly> I don't have time to or I would
<chillywilly> it's not my fault, honest ;)
<chillywilly> I keep parying for 36 hour days but the Lord keeps telling me t go fly a kite ;)
<ajmitch> hey
<ajmitch> you're on irc nearly as much as i am :)
<chillywilly> hey what?
<chillywilly> all my free time the last couple weeks has gone to other things
<chillywilly> I am jst relaxing right now after an exhasting week
<ajmitch> hmm
<chillywilly> I should be doing something
<chillywilly> but I am procrastinating a bit
<ajmitch> most of the stuff i've done this week has been GNU/Linux stuff or python hacking
<chillywilly> well you tell work to let me off for a couple weeks with pay so I can hack on various things, ok? ;)
<chillywilly> they'll listen you I am sure of it ;)
<chillywilly> oh and tell caroline that she needs to let me spen the weekend hacking too ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> ajmitch: you're the answer to all my problems!
<chillywilly> ;P
<ajmitch> i know
<chillywilly> I need a time machine
<ajmitch> sigh, this is where i need that calendar widget derek was talking about :)
<chillywilly> so I cna back things up
<chillywilly> and have more time that way
<ajmitch> hmm
Action: ajmitch needs to tweak the db structure for this timesheet form
<ajmitch> gah, it no worky
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> wb jcater
Action: jcater is on the way out
<jcater> but thanks
<ajmitch> fine :)
Action: jcater has a b'day party to get to
<ajmitch> i'll file bugreports in dcl ;)
Action: ajmitch has some questions for someone, at some point....
<StyXman> ok! I finished the merge! would a big patch be enought? :)
<Isomer> with vague, interderminate answers? :)
<StyXman> nah, I'll send patches tomorrow or monday
<StyXman> again, is against yesterday's snapshot
<ajmitch> Isomer: preferably specific answers :)
<chillywilly> the answer is 42
<chillywilly> that's the anser to life, the universe, adn everything...that should be all anyone needs ;)
<chillywilly> answer
<nickr> chillywilly: dude, that is so old, get some new jokes.
<chillywilly> nickr: the HHGG NEVER gets old!
<Isomer> chillywilly: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/1.html  <- You can get them from here even :)
<chillywilly> wtf is wrong with you!?!
<chillywilly> nickr: I am up to the thrid book now
<chillywilly> third even
<chillywilly> the point I am at is when the go down to the planet Kirkket
<chillywilly> er, krikket
<chillywilly> I think after I finish HHGG series I may reasd the silmarillian or the left behind series
Action: jcater is away: gone
<StyXman> ok, gone. good weekend.
StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-17.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "yes!"
<Isomer> chillywilly: at work, we name all our machines after planets
<Isomer> chillywilly: we had a PHB, who's laptop got called "golgafrinchum"
<Isomer> he never figured it out
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> sigh, this is a wacky db structure
<ajmitch> well, wacky table
jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey jbailey
<nickr> ah HAH
<jbailey> Heya Andrew.
<jbailey> So I'm now committed to try and show gnue to my boss for late next week.
<jbailey> It's pretty much not going in as the PO system, but probably will be our networking database. =)
<ajmitch> excellent
<ajmitch> so you've got to learn the system in the next week, enough for a demo? :)
<jbailey> Ayup.
<ajmitch> no worries ;)
<chillywilly> Isomer: :)
<chillywilly> SUBJ: Engineers, Scientists, and Mathematicians, Take One
<chillywilly> Engineers think that equations approximate the real world.
<chillywilly> Physicists think that the real world approximates equations.
<chillywilly> Mathematicians are unable to make the connection ...
<chillywilly> ---
<chillywilly> SUBJ: Engineers, Scientists, and Mathematicians, Take Two
<chillywilly> An engineer, a physicist, and a mathematician are shown a pasture
<chillywilly> with a herd of sheep, and told to put them inside the smallest
<chillywilly> possible amount of fence.
<chillywilly> The engineer is first. He herds the sheep into a circle and then
<chillywilly> puts the fence around them, declaring, "A circle will use the least
<chillywilly> fence for a given area, so this is the best solution."
<chillywilly> The physicist is next. He creates a circular fence of infinite
<chillywilly> radius around the sheep, and then draws the fence tight around the
<chillywilly> herd, declaring, "This will give the smallest circular fence around
<chillywilly> the herd."
<chillywilly> The mathematician is last. After giving the problem a little
<chillywilly> thought, he puts a small fence around himself and then declares, "I
<chillywilly> define myself to be on the outside."
<chillywilly> hehe
<Isomer> heh
<KeithJagrs> nickr: you there?
jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: "Client Exiting"
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> dneighbo!!!!
<dneighbo> hey
<dneighbo> grr my internet connection is dog slow
<dneighbo> figures i have bills to do and want to gnue
<dneighbo> and will spend half my time fighting to get basic internet to work
Action: dneighbo gets so pissed sometimes
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> your internet connection is far far faster than mine
<dneighbo> sometimes
<dneighbo> never upstream
<ajmitch> true
<ajmitch> i've had to upload 2.5GB at a time, sometimes :)
<dneighbo> sup chillywilly dog
<dneighbo> its getting crazy in here
<dneighbo> wrong window
zhouzhen (~zhouzhen@210.83.101.148) joined #gnuenterprise.
<dneighbo> hello zhouzhen
<zhouzhen> hello, dneighbo
zhouzhen (~zhouzhen@210.83.101.148) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<dneighbo> hmmm we must have impressed him
<KeithJagrs> heh
<ajmitch> this place is pretty scary
Action: dneighbo is away: out
<chillywilly> sup dneighbo
<ajmitch> chillza!
<chillywilly> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> sup bro?
<chillywilly> nothing watching "whatever happened to robot jones" w/ scotty
<chillywilly> on cartoon network
<ajmitch> ah cool
<ajmitch> good that you can spend time with him :)
<chillywilly> yes :)
<chillywilly> it's really past his bedtime though
<chillywilly> but it's the weekend ;)
<ajmitch> past his bedtime? but it's not yet 5pm!
<chillywilly> Fri Nov 15 21:55:37 CST 2002
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> almost 10pm here! ;)
<chillywilly> whatcha up to ajmitch?
<chillywilly> I hate it when ppl take their time responding on mailing lists ;)
<chillywilly> email is not a good substitute for IRC
<chillywilly> ;P
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> contemplating 
<chillywilly> what?
<chillywilly> power puff girls are on
<ajmitch> scary
<ajmitch> don't tell me you're going to watch that
<chillywilly> scotty likes it
<chillywilly> I am not really watching much
<chillywilly> if something cool like samurai jack was on then I'd have to watch ;)
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<dneighbo> mojo jojo rocks
Action: dneighbo is back (gone 00:43:49)
<dneighbo> chillywilly: i think i taught myself most of pillar's unity
Action: dneighbo should just leave my guitar drop tuned to D
<dneighbo> as almost everythign i like now a days requires it
Action: dneighbo needs an electric bad
<chillywilly> I hate alternate tunings
<chillywilly> but I am lazy
<dneighbo> as acoustic hard rock sounds kind of funny ;0
Action: jcater is back (gone 03:41:55)
<dneighbo> hi jcater
<jcater> word
Action: dneighbo is finally getting around to cvs updating all my trees
Action: jcater takes that as his cue to leave
<ajmitch> hehe
<dneighbo> to start tearing into gnue-sb
<dneighbo> how was birthday?
<jcater> good
Action: jcater feels like an old man
<ajmitch> your birthday?
<jcater> ya
<ajmitch> happy b'day :)
<jcater> thanks
<dneighbo> ooooo
<dneighbo> someone has redhat packages for 0.4.0
<dneighbo> grrr my connectino is fouling up again
<dneighbo> sisgh
<jcater> ajmitch: do you know if jamest was able to fix that Add Datasource issue?
<jcater> I know he was on his way out'
<ajmitch> jcater: he said he'd have to leave it
<jcater> grrrrr
<jcater> my damn toilet is leaking
<ajmitch> :)
<jcater> sometimes I hate owning a house
<chillywilly> sweating a lot?
<chillywilly> the tank that is
<chillywilly> ;)
<dneighbo> he fixed it by assigning it to jcater :)
<dneighbo> early birthday present and all
<dneighbo> jcater: hey my toilet is too
<dneighbo> i tried to fix it last weekend
<chillywilly> toilet tank
<dneighbo> spent an hour 'modifying' parts
<dneighbo> but looks like i will have to break down and go buy a few new pieces
Action: dneighbo was impressed with his toilet mods too
<jcater> chillywilly: no, it's the supply line
<chillywilly> oh
<jcater> it's one of those vinyl kind
<jcater> I've had really bad luck w/those going out
<jcater> I had two vinyl ones wearing out at the rental house
<chillywilly> I was gonna say if it sweats too mch you can insulate the tank to stop that
<jcater> chillywilly: nah, I live in the south... not a issue down here
<dneighbo> get the braided hose
<jcater> dneighbo: yeah
<jcater> that's all I'll buy from now on
<ajmitch> jcater: the problem was in the add dropdown wizard, where i got the wonderful opportunity to select a datasource
<jcater> that's 3 vinyl ones I will have replaced in the last 6 weeks
<dneighbo> my problem isnt a 'leak' its that the toilet runs
<dneighbo> was faulty diapraghm 
<jcater> ajmitch: yeah, I see the issue
<jcater> will try to patch shortly
<dneighbo> fixed that with some 'spare' parts
<ajmitch> cool
Action: ajmitch just added the entry manually
<dneighbo> but they dont quite fit the toilet so had to mod the 'float' a bit to get things operational
<dneighbo> worked for about 3 months but the strain on the new return is too much so its progressively failing
<dneighbo> :(
Action: dneighbo just cant cut it as a toilet engineer ;)
<jcater> yeah I had that issue recently
<jcater> as simple as they are
<jcater> I hate dealing w/toilet floats
<dneighbo> my net connection SUCKS
<jcater> birds getting in the way?
<ajmitch> lovely, a toilet discussion
<dneighbo> hey i have a new camera i think its time to get some toilet mod shots ;)
<jcater> rofl
<jcater> ajmitch: could be worse
<jcater> we could be talking underground septic system repair
<ajmitch> could be talking about what goes into the toilets?
Action: chillywilly would love to have a toilet problem with *his* house ;)...er, or have a house at all for that matter
<dneighbo> hey when people say gnue is sh*t
<dneighbo> we can say thats ok we are toilet pros
<dneighbo> mdean: where oh where is mdean
<dneighbo> jcater: i have actually modded a sump pump before
<jcater> chillywilly: see, this is more a relational problem than an object-oriented one
<jcater> see, you can define the house as an object and you as an object
<jcater> but you're gonna have to create some relationship with a really good job
<dneighbo> pre emgering it in the septic system though :)
Action: dneighbo is SO grateful we dont have septic systems like that out here (at least not in the city)
<jcater> dneighbo: I can relate
<dneighbo> jcater: yeah the toilet.flush() method doesnt seem to be completing its callback
<jcater> it's friggin discusting
<chillywilly> jcater: gee thanks that helps tremendously
<chillywilly> NOT
<jcater> dneighbo: well, I tried the message-passing paradigm
<jcater> but it just didn't respond to my cursing
<jcater> so then I tried the reference-by-handle methodology
<jcater> but hitting it with a bat hurt me more than it
<jcater> and it still didn't work
Action: jcater could try virtual methods
<jcater> but taking a shit on the couch probably isn't a good idea
<jcater> especially considering wife would make me sleep on the couch afterwards
<jcater> which quickly turns into a pseudo-object-relational nightmare
<ajmitch> sigh, geek jokes :)
<chillywilly> relationship Job lackee inverse Job::masta;
<jcater> ajmitch: oh, it gets worse... but I'll stop here :)
<chillywilly> praise the Lord :)
<jcater> sometimes I get the feeling chillywilly doesn't like me :-/
<chillywilly> it's all in your head
<jcater> but then I consider what I'm missing out on
<dneighbo> wow kde3 is kind of nice
Action: dneighbo ducks
<jcater> and I don't feel so bad
<jcater> kind of?
<jcater> it's the choice of a gnu generation
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<chillywilly> uh, hell no
<ajmitch> kde rocks
<dneighbo> wife broke computer today and startx over gdm got her in kde3
<jcater> I love kde
<jcater> it's made my life so much easier
Action: jcater was so glad to get the callcenter off of gnome
<dneighbo> its very 'crisp'
<dneighbo> nice fonts
<dneighbo> i still think their widgets and icons are ugly as sin
Action: dneighbo likes it all
<dneighbo> i.e. i like gnome, kde is nice, i live in fluxbox
<dneighbo> hey chillywilly did you see my ximian barbie?
<chillywilly> no
Action: chillywilly is feeling a bit depressed right now
<jcater> cheer up, little buddy
<chillywilly> eh...
<jcater> it could be worse
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/ximian_barbie.jpg
<dneighbo> that should cheer you up
<dneighbo> doh!
<dneighbo> i just realized he aint got no pants on
<dneighbo> ok
<dneighbo> http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/toilet_mod.png
<dneighbo> gnue the first irc channel featuring toilet mods
<chillywilly> lol, where'd you get ximian barbie clothes?
<dneighbo> i think a little plexiglass and tube lighting and tis complete
<dneighbo> chillywilly: i have a bunch of rupert monkeys
<dneighbo> i gave some to the girls
<jcater> dneighbo: y'all must not have very high water pressure in AZ
<dneighbo> one day i stepped on something, cussed and picked it up
<dneighbo> it was ken w/ a helixcode shirt
<dneighbo> and i was like WHOA where did they get that
Action: chillywilly has never seen a rupert monkey
<dneighbo> and just before i was really ready to freak
<dneighbo> i saw a naked rupert on the floor
<jcater> you don't have a clippy thingy securing the white tubing in place
<chillywilly> heheh
<jcater> those would fly out here in Memphis
<dneighbo> and was like ahhh they stole it from rupert
Action: dneighbo thinks that was pretty clever
<jcater> argh!
<dneighbo> they wanted daddy ken doll
<jcater> what am I saying!
<dneighbo> rofl
<chillywilly> I need caffiene
<dneighbo> ok nickr you here
<dneighbo> you know of a good tool that will 'scale' all the images in a directory
<jcater> imagemagick
<jcater> oh, that was a nickr question... sorry
Action: dneighbo think igal might do this
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> i only asked nickr as he is camera guru
Action: dneighbo is debating if i want to keep photos at the super size image
<dneighbo> image management yet another problem w/o time to fix
<jcater> EXAMPLES
<jcater>        To make a thumbnail of a JPEG image, use:
<jcater>            convert -size 120x120 cockatoo.jpg -resize 120x120
<jcater>                    +profile '*' thumbnail.jpg
<jcater>        In this example, "-size 120x120" gives a hint to the JPEG decoder that the image is  going
<jcater>        to  be downscaled to 120x120, allowing it to run faster by avoiding returning a full-reso­
<jcater>        lution image.  The "-resize 120x120" specifies the desired dimensions of the output image.
<jcater>        It  will be scaled so its largest dimension is 120 pixels.  The "+profile '*'" removes any
<jcater>        ICM, EXIF, IPTC, or other profiles that might be present in the input and aren't needed in
<jcater>        the thumbnail.
<jcater> that could be as simple as:  convert myimage.jpg -resize 120x120 thumbnail.jpg
<jcater> but their example has a few optimizations (which I've never used, btw)
<dneighbo> yeah but thats not my problem persay
<dneighbo> the issue is i have a huge file from the camera
<dneighbo> i want to smoosh it for web display (igal) does that just fine
<dneighbo> i was thinking of trashing the big file
<dneighbo> BUT
<dneighbo> really this is our camera now
<dneighbo> and wife might choose to make prints etc
<dneighbo> ultimately i will be archiving off on to CD-R regularly
Action: ajmitch looks for a nice easy way to generate a class hierarchy & docs :)
<dneighbo> so its more a liguistical thign
<dneighbo> of download to where
<dneighbo> rename in what way
<dneighbo> move to where to burn etc
Action: jcater has a cron job set up for marketing at work
<dneighbo> and move to web
<dneighbo> etc etc
<jcater> they save pdf copies of all our supplies/materials when they are done to a directory
<jcater> I then have a cronjob that regularly looks for files here
<jcater> creates .png images for web use
<jcater> of the supplies from the pdf
<jcater> creates another pdf that's not at the 1200x1200 resolution
<jcater> that's more suitable for emailing someone to just glance at
<jcater> uploads framed png version to our
<jcater> salesrep's online account center
<jcater> as well as another scaled down pdf that they can preview
<jcater> might want to consider something like that
<jcater> you just save images to a certain directory
<jcater> and periodically, web-ready viersions, archive-ready versions, etc are created 
Action: jcater is just thinking how your wife likes things... "it just works"
jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey jeff
<dneighbo> yeah
<dneighbo> im thinking of having wife just always dump them in a photos directory
<dneighbo> then nightly cronjob
<dneighbo> and move to a 'burnme' directory
<dneighbo> and move a smaller copy to the pre-web directory
<dneighbo> then periodically i can rename and categorize the ones for webpublishing
<dneighbo> and burn the big guys to cd and delete or something
Action: dneighbo thinks unix is so great :)
jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: "Client Exiting"
jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise.
--- Sat Nov 16 2002