fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-225.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-225.wasp.net.au) got netsplit.
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit.
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) got netsplit.
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) got lost in the net-split.
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got lost in the net-split.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-225.wasp.net.au) got lost in the net-split.
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-225.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> anyone home?
<ajmitch> nope
<chillywilly> hey
Action: chillywilly just got back form Goran's show downtown
Action: ajmitch is just doing ajmitch.sendto(bed)
<ajmitch> must be up early in the morn
Action: chillywilly will do that soon after he consumes this taco bell
<ajmitch> ok, night
<chillywilly> night
Action: chillywilly has to go to church in the morning
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> hi psu
<psu> hiya
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org"
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
johannes (~johannes@M701P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting"
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-136.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-136.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-228.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-225.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-228.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-245.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-72.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-72.netcologne.de) left irc: "Eject! Eject! Eject!"
siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-72.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-245.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> any outstanding bugs?
<ra3vat> sure
<jamest> any that i can fix ? :)
<ra3vat> simple form with 2 enties via simple wizard
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<ra3vat> one entry has negative width="-5"
jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-107-182.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> sorry, designer locked my X
<jamest> ra3vat: what was the bug?
<ra3vat> :)
<ra3vat> <ra3vat> one entry has negative width="-5"
<ra3vat> unpaired </options> tag
<jamest> ewwwww
<jamest> this via a wizard
siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-72.netcologne.de) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
<ra3vat> yes
btami (~btami@3e70d725.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> what database?
<btami> hi all
<ra3vat> encoding options in header is not defined
<ra3vat> postgresql
<jamest> is this only in i18n forms?
<jamest> hi btami
<btami> hi
<jamest> how goes the win32 stuff
<ra3vat> btami: i've got that bug with non-ascii page and title
<btami> so i'm not a paranoid
<ra3vat> but in my case it was that encoding missed in xml header
<btami> jamest: win32 setup is ok, just about 10Mb, not for slow modem :)
<ra3vat> jamest: will try again now on w98 and ascii form
<jamest> 10MB!!!!!!
<jamest> wow
<btami> it grabs tcl/tk/tkinter too
<btami> i don't know which modul
<btami> but i have another bugs :)
<btami> 1. please put gnue.common.external into commons setup.py
<btami> 2. i don't know how to save trigger code (written in event editor) with designer
<btami> it doesn't saves for me
<jamest> 1.   working on it
dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> 2. how are you using it?
<jamest> do you add the trigger then edit it
<jamest> edit existing trigger
<jamest> or other
<btami> added a new button with wizard
<btami> then edited in event editor
Action: jamest will try it
<ra3vat> jamest: ascii-only form negative values for width and max-length
<jamest> 1. fixed in cv
<jamest> s
<ra3vat> unpaired </options> right after <form ..> tag
<jamest> ra3vat: :(  I've see something like this once or twice
<jamest> with <block> tags
<btami> i'm waiting to say my 3. :)
<jamest> acsii-only?
<jamest> ra3vat?
<jamest> oooo wizards have issues
<jamest> !@#!$!@#
<ra3vat> i did not put any non-ascii
<ra3vat> values
<jamest> it's a simple table?
<jamest> using the simple wizard?
<jamest> ooooooo
<jamest> what distro you running?
<jamest> and what db driver?
<ra3vat> simple form wizard
<jamest> there is a known issue with one of the postgresql drivers in debian sid
<jamest> that IIRC does exactly this
<ra3vat> distro is w98 :)
<jamest> what db driver?
<ra3vat> db drive is pypgsql
<jamest> btami: I'm going to need time on #2 as I see a problem in there
<jamest> what's #3
<jamest> ra3vat: can you send me the schema of the table?
<jamest> so I can test 
<btami> reports without any non ascii
<btami> with sablotron filter
Action: jamest cringes
Action: jamest ph34rs reports code
<btami> jcater put encoding="iso8859-1" into xml header
<btami> but sablotron doesn't knoes that
<btami> it knows iso-8859-1
<btami> so sablotron fails
<jamest> so if I thange to the latter we'll be ok
<jamest> and the current iso8859-1 isn't used elsewhere?
<ra3vat> CREATE TABLE "reclaims" (
<ra3vat>         "id" integer DEFAULT nextval('reclaims_id_seq'::text) NOT NULL,
<ra3vat>         "num" text,
<ra3vat>         "origdate" date,
<ra3vat>         "org_id" integer,
<ra3vat>         "vendor_id" integer,
<ra3vat>         "model" character varying(20),
<ra3vat> is what pg_dump gives and i only choose num and model fields
<btami> jamest:iso8859-2 is used elsewhere, but they are correct, its only a sblotron issue i think
<jamest> in our sablotron setup or the program in general?
Action: jamest knows nothing about sablotron
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> in sablotron general
<jamest> :(
<ra3vat> btami: then blame sablotron guys :)
<btami> :)
<jamest> ra3vat: are you using pypgsql 2.3beta or 2.2 stable?
<jamest> btami: if it's in sablotron then do you have any suggestions for a workaround we can put in our code?
<jamest> among the numerious things in the world that I have no clue about i18n/encodings are pretty high on the list 
<ra3vat> it is 2.0.win32
<btami> jamest: in GRReport.py line#134 
<btami> encoding = 'iso-8859-1' 
<btami> will fix it
<jamest> but break it for other things later I assume
<ra3vat> jamest: updating to 2.2
<jamest> ra3vat: cool
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection
<btami> jamest. can you try that on linux?
<btami> with foobulations sample
<jamest> yes
<jamest> works fine w/ the change 
<btami> ok
<jamest> grcvs --filter text -D file -d output.txt monthly.grd
<btami> and without ?
<jamest> IIRC salbotron goes the raw to text transform 
<jamest> correct?
<btami> try html
<jamest> looks fine
<jamest> without what?
<jamest> the patch?
<btami> yes
<jamest> works fine
ariel_ (~ariel@217.133.242.0) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> i'll commit the change now
<btami> ok, thanks
<jamest> btami: this is still win32 right?
<btami> yes
<btami> sablot.dll issue
<jamest> commited
<dimas> jamest: the same thing
<jamest> I'll have to d/l the driver onto my machine to test
<jamest> i'll try linux first
<jamest> can you give me a bit
Action: jamest is trying to wrap up a form for a part time client of mine
<ra3vat> <form height="4" title="title" width="29">
<ra3vat>   <options/>
<ra3vat>   <datasource database="desert" name="dtsReclaims" table="reclaims"/>
<ra3vat>   <page name="Page_1">
<ra3vat>     <block datasource="dtsreclaims" name="blkReclaims">
<ra3vat>       <entry field="num" max_length="-5" name="inpNum" width="-5" x="8" y="1"/>
<ra3vat>       <entry field="model" max_length="20" name="inpModel" width="20" x="8"
<ra3vat>              y="2"/>
<ra3vat>     </block>
<ra3vat>     <label name="lblNum" text="Num:" width="4" x="1" y="1"/>
<ra3vat>     <label name="lblModel" text="Model:" width="6" x="1" y="2"/>
<ra3vat>   </page>
<ra3vat> </form>
<jamest> thats butchered isn't it
<jamest> sigh, it's the same with the trigger editing sample I just tried
_btami (~btami@3e70d739.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<_btami> jamest: what about changing formFontEncoding [forms] -> fontEncoding [common] i gnue.conf ?
lupo (~lupo@pD9542DB5.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> jason looked into that yesterday and had some concern, but I have no clue what it was
<ra3vat> jamest: have you seen another issue i tried to explain yesterday?
<jamest> ?
<ra3vat> it is in backlog
<jamest> ok, i'll look in a bit
Action: jamest is on a mission
<jamest> forms was scrapped by a local company for a custom java app partially due to fact that python isn't as well know (i guess)
<jamest> that app has taking them the better part of this year to implement
<lupo> how ignorant
<jamest> and certain feautres are missing 
<lupo> lemme guess, you did it in 5 minutes with forms and python :)
<jamest> so I was working on their hardware one weekend and they mentioned they couldn't do lookups on anything but id number and phone number
<jamest> then only pull 1 record at a time
<jamest> so via designer I whipped up a query form in like 90 seconds
<lupo> brb
<jamest> they liked it
<jamest> now I'm making one for them to query anything that the java app builds
<jamest> and it didn't take 5 minutes
<jamest> I've probably got a few hours in it
<jamest> but i'm finding forms bugs as I go
<jamest> and it won't do what the java app does
<jamest> i'd need a few more hours to get all the triggers in place :)
<jamest> but I desperately want to get this in there
<jamest> as they are using forms and reports in production now
<jamest> but want to rewrite all in java or something else
<lupo> great
<lupo> so you get paid for working on gnue tools, at least from that customer?
<jamest> i get money for the time working on the form
<jamest> i don't get paid time for gnue coding time
<lupo> paid for fixing forms bugs?
<jamest> which makes it hard to explain to wife sometimes
<jamest> as I worked like 4 hours yesterday 
<lupo> what's so difficult to understand?
<jamest> the fact that I don't charge for finding gnue bugs
<lupo> i see
<jamest> as 4 hours on their stuff != 4 hours of money
<jamest> and I work at an extremely low rate
<jamest> the original contract stated that anything I did for them that wasn't private was mine to integrate into gnue
<jamest> if it wasn't like that then the old hourly wage would have shot up alot
<lupo> what a pity
<jamest> what? that they scrapped it?
<jamest> or that I don't get paid to work on gnue code?
Action: jamest wouldn't want to get paid for that as then it'd be "work" 
<lupo> ah
<lupo> programming for fun :)
btami (~btami@3e70d725.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
<lupo> as long as you can pay your bills ...
<jamest> oh yeah
<jamest> i don't need this side job
<jamest> but the owner is a great guy
<jamest> and I love maintaining their hardware
<lupo> ?
<jamest> when I started they had 1 dos box (8088 machine) and a win95 box
<lupo> and now?
btami (~btami@3e70d727.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> they now are 100% linux based (except for fedex computer, their scanner pc, and a copy of dreamweaver)
<jamest> running like 18 ltsp workstations
<jamest> all from a couple of custom servers I built
<lupo> great
<ra3vat> btami: you get that Martin's message with comment from gnue-dev list?
<jamest> it's fun
<btami> ra3vat: yes
<jamest> anyway, i must finish this form up
<jamest> as their java coder is overloaded with work
<lupo> 18 ltsp workstations is fun, right :)
<jamest> and this takes the pressure off him and makes a good case for keeping forms/reports instead of replacing
<ra3vat> btami: am i the only one who has different encoding on different platform?
<btami> no, i have iso8859-2 on linux, and cp1250 on win32
<btami> but i'm testing on win32, because my customers will use win32 :(
_btami (~btami@3e70d739.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
<btami> but i have no problems on linux IIRC
<ra3vat> btami: does hu_HU translation work for fboth platform?
<ra3vat> both
<btami> yes IIRC
<ra3vat> oh
<btami> i have:
<btami> "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2\n"
<btami> in gnue.po
<ra3vat> with the same gnue.mo or recoded for each platform?
<btami> with the same gnue.mo
<ra3vat> ok, will check mine
<btami> l8r
btami (~btami@3e70d727.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r"
reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise.
btami (~btami@3e70d734.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> ra3vat: just one thing
<btami> i created my po files with poEdit on winXP
<ra3vat> btami: my translation does not work from ru_RU but locale.getdefaultlocale()[0]] = ru_RU for sure
<btami> with pygettext as a parser
<ra3vat> btami: there are two gettext.py in different places
<btami> i'm using pygettext.py
<btami> by Barry Warsaw <barry@zope.com>
<btami> and 
<btami> by Barry Warsaw <barry@zope.com>
<btami> version 1.4
<ra3vat> btami: you did any changes for gnue code? by default which gettext module would be used?
<btami> no changes
<btami> but i'v used poEdit.exe with pygettext.py
<ra3vat> how you use pygettext.py under linux? got it separately?
<btami> i'v never used it under linux, but
<btami> if you want, i can send you
<ra3vat> yes, please ds@ics.elcom.ru
<ra3vat> or do you say that these (pygettext adnpoEdit) only need to produce gnue.mo? and it may be in more correct form then with other tools?
<btami> i'v never tried other tools, so don't know
<ra3vat> ok
<btami> grrrrr
<btami> i have to reboot this shit
btami (~btami@3e70d734.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r"
siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-108-12.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-108-12.netcologne.de) left irc: 
siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-108-12.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise.
dres_ (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> sigh, checkbox support?
<jamest> i assume it's still foobar'd
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit.
pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) got netsplit.
nickr (~panphage@e-64-35-146-236.empnet.net) got netsplit.
dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) got netsplit.
Mr_You (~car@gso167-138-145.triad.rr.com) got netsplit.
gnuebot (~eggdrop@65.101.4.211) got netsplit.
paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) got netsplit.
<lupo> hm
<ajmitch> hi
nickr (~panphage@e-64-35-146-236.empnet.net) returned to #gnuenterprise.
<ra3vat> jamest: it is my fault but i was lost with that event handling
gnuebot (~eggdrop@65.101.4.211) returned to #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> ra3vat: what is your fault?
<ra3vat> checkbox :)
<jamest> so it is broken
<jamest> ?
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
<jamest> i have two issues
<jamest> 1) checkboxes
<ra3vat> have not tried it for a long time but neeed soon
<jamest> 2) how to use the setFocus trigger extension someone added
jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise.
pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) returned to #gnuenterprise.
paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) returned to #gnuenterprise.
Mr_You (~car@gso167-138-145.triad.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise.
<jamest> if I can resolve those I will have created a form that does a fair bit of what the java app can do
<ra3vat> jamest: what's wrong with checkboxes?
dres (~dres@mail.lewismoss.org) got lost in the net-split.
<jamest> my time invested if you include moving my aquarium, eating, sleeping, company, debugging gnue, and basic life in general is now at (23 hours 40 minutes)
<ariel_> reinhard: hi
<jamest> compared to working since at least april on the other app
<jamest> not me working on it of course :)
<ariel_> any news?
<jamest> htey do nothing
<reinhard> ariel_: yes and no
<siesel>  hi reinhard, hi ariel
<reinhard> ariel_: i was having a booth at a fair yesterday
<reinhard> siesel: hi
<reinhard> and i held a speech there
<reinhard> this is why i didn't get much done in the last few days
<lupo> what fair?
<reinhard> however the good news is
<reinhard> that i am 100% positive to _really_ have time now for gnue next week
<reinhard> lupo: LinuxDay
<reinhard> a rather local event for Vorarlberg, east Swizerland and (very) southern Germany
<lupo> what do you want to do on gnue?
<reinhard> appserver
<lupo> as to be expected :)
<reinhard> update the whitepaper and other documentation from the halloween mails
<reinhard> design the class repository interface based on ariel's proposal
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
lupo (~lupo@pD9542DB5.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1"
Action: drochaid is away: cooking, soon feeding
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<chillywilly> herro?
<nickr> chillywilly is turning japanese I think he's turning japanese I really think so.
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> is this ugly or what? MutexLock mlock(*(dynamic_cast<Mutex *>((const_cast<BooleanLock *>(this)))));
<nickr> eh
<jcater> oh yeah
<jcater> I can one up that
<jcater> this is uglier:
<jcater> import java.applet.Applet;
<jcater> import java.awt.Graphics;
<jcater> public class HelloWorld extends Applet {
<jcater>     public void paint(Graphics g) {
<jcater>         g.drawString("Hello world!", 50, 25);
<jcater>     }
<jcater> }
<chillywilly> I'm blind!
[14:00] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
<chillywilly> see you made fixe quit
<jcater> hehe
btami (~btami@3e70d728.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise.
<btami> ra3vat: pygettext.py sended
<chillywilly> Packers have weathered the storm
<chillywilly> but they are still down by 7 man
<btami> <_btami> jamest: what about changing formFontEncoding [forms] -> fontEncoding [common] i gnue.conf ?
Action: drochaid is back (gone 00:24:06)
<btami> <jamest> jason looked into that yesterday and had some concern, but I have no clue what it was
<btami> jcater ?
<jamest> i think i should have said
<jamest> s/and had/and i think had/
<jcater> btami: we discussed
<jcater> we're going to use textEncoding
<jcater> I just haven't added
<jcater> give me a few
<btami> jcater: ok
<btami> but please don't forget 
<btami>            dest.write(child.getContent())
<btami> in GRLayout.py
<btami> line #260
<btami> needs .encode(encoding) too
<btami> btw. please close ticket 160 in DCL
ariel_ (~ariel@217.133.242.0) left irc: "Uscita dal client"
<ra3vat> btami: got it, thanks
btami (~btami@3e70d728.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r"
jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> Hmm
<psu> what does this error msg mean (excuse paste)
<psu> cvs server: ERROR: cannot write file /webcvs/software/gnue/gnue.html,v: Permission denied
<psu> does it simply mean what it says (i.e my perms are b0rked)?
<jcater> they don't have you in the webcvs group
<psu> or is it ... something more sinister...
<jcater> psu: hang on
<psu> yes, but I am a member of gnue
<jcater> well
<psu> so should have access to our HTML CVS
<jcater> they neglected to set /webcvs/software/gnue to be in gnue's group
<jcater> :(
<psu> ah
<psu> that would be it ;-/
<jcater> can you try again?
<Mr_You> I get some errors with the latest navigator prerelease and others, probably me tho..
<psu> rock!
<Mr_You> tried loading gnue-sb contacts.gpd  (sp?)
<psu> Checking in gnue.html; initial revision: 1.1 done
<Mr_You> anyone know if GNUe actually uses the schema definition files to create the DB tables or is it just for reference for now?
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<psu> Mr_You: it should work
<psu> I know derek has been beating on jcater to fix some probs with gsd support
<psu> and the beating has stopped
<psu> so I assume it's been fixed ;-)
<Mr_You> well  I haven't begun using it, I'm just curious if this aspect is functional or not.
<Mr_You> I was going to mess with gnue-sb 
<Mr_You> I gotta setup another dev box, sucks  working this way.
<Mr_You> dualboot.
jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<Mr_You> but reality is.. I'm stuck with M$ IE until I move off or providers upgrade their interfaces to support other browsers.. I can't use Netscape/Mozilla with my bank.. maybe its the browser, I dunno.
rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
DrudgeRoopert (foobar@00045ACF7A3C.slidell.charter-ala.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<DrudgeRoopert> hi
<DrudgeRoopert> is it gnome?
Action: nickr blinks
<DrudgeRoopert> gnuenterprise
<DrudgeRoopert> is it gnome?
<nickr> No
<nickr> not specificly
<DrudgeRoopert> im just looking for a gnome program that handles bills due and stuff.
<DrudgeRoopert> err payment due
<nickr> gnucash?
<DrudgeRoopert> im using that, but im not sure how to do it so you say you did some work and you havent been paid for it yet.
dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<Mr_You> I think the smallbiz functionality is in the latest alpha version of GNUcash
Action: psu notes that the HTML CVS doesn't post to commit-gnue ;-(
<psu> I've put a temp holding page at 
<DrudgeRoopert> smallbiz?
<Mr_You> with GNUe, eventually you could have many options for clients to pay and update the database info.
<psu> http://www.gnu.org/software/gnue/gnue.html
<psu> With a bit of luck, we can do something a bit better within a week or two.
<psu> anyway
psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("nite...").
dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.."
DrudgeRoopert (foobar@00045ACF7A3C.slidell.charter-ala.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<grib> drudgeroopert: in gnucash, you can handle that situation with a generic "asset" account that you can call "accounts receivable". 
<grib> oops, missed him
siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-108-12.netcologne.de) left irc: "night"
rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
rm-away (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there"
drochaid_ (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid
dneighbo (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-245.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hello all
SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-245.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
<jcater> ajmitch: werd
<ajmitch> hey
<ajmitch> now i can get back to making my form work :)
<ajmitch> like automagically inserting sequence numbers for master/detail
<jamest> that should be in the docs as a recipe 
<jamest> IIRC
<ajmitch> mysql's auto_increment doesn't work for master/detail, nor is it friendly :)
<ajmitch> yeah, i know, mysql sucks
<ajmitch> so who has a recipe for me? ;)
<chillywilly> take on mysql
<chillywilly> er, one
<chillywilly> broil it
<chillywilly> cut it up into little pieces
<chillywilly> works wonders as a substitude for cat litter
<chillywilly> cna even help yo soak up oil spills on your driveway
<jcater> chillywilly: yeah, and it can soak up that cat piss 10 times faster than postgresql
<jcater> just don't ask it to save the stuff reliably and it's all good
<jamest> ajmitch: i think if you implenet 
<jamest> sequenceNumber in the mysql driver 
<ajmitch> jcater: i got a couple of bugs for the gtk2 driver, shall i put them in dcl & fix them sometime?
<jamest> then you'd have them
<jamest> i _think_
<ajmitch> hmm
<jcater> ajmitch: works for me
<jcater> ajmitch: we never mind when someone wants to open a ticket that they plan to fix someday
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> they _should_ be fairly simple to fix
<ajmitch> but can't promise that :)
<jamest> ajmitch: yes
<jamest> you fix that one driver functoin and it should just work
<jamest> what's the issue w/ mysql and sequences
<jamest> lemme guess....it doesn't have them
<ajmitch> jamest: ok, i just don't understand the issue :)
<ajmitch> jamest: all i want is for the primary key (id) to be set for each record :)
<jamest> in the detail?
<jamest> s
<ajmitch> and the value being set to be visible to the detail portion
<jamest> that's automatic on a commit in common
<ajmitch> right
<jamest> however getting the initial value from the db isn't IIRC
<ajmitch> hmm
<jamest> if you do the assignment on the database side then you have issues IIRC
<jamest> a db side trigger
<ajmitch> yup
<jamest> or a default value set to a function
<ajmitch> triggers? what's that? this is mysql i'm using :)
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> well, then that can't be the issue then :)
<jamest> does it have sequences?
<ajmitch> umm
<jamest> and is that where you are getting the primary key value?
<ajmitch> i'm not getting it yet
<jamest> where is it stored?
<ajmitch> at the moment, i have the primary key field set to auto_increment in the db
<ajmitch> which sucks
<jamest> hey! auto_increement == db side trigger!
<jamest> see, it's more advance than i give it credit
<jcater> um
<ajmitch> hah
<jcater> do you know the name of the sequence it created?
<ajmitch> name?
<jamest> this is mysql...naming things slows it down
Action: ajmitch doesn't think mysql does this sequence thing
<ajmitch> it's simple
<jcater> yeah it does
<jcater> it just hides it from you
<ajmitch> great
Action: jcater is googling for the answer
<jamest> showing user things slows it down
<ajmitch> i'd like to switch to postgresql :)
<chillywilly> the lesson here kiddies
<chillywilly> mysql sucks ass
<ajmitch> the lesson here, is that sometimes we don't have that much choice 
<chillywilly> that is all
<chillywilly> ajmitch: why would you HAVE to use mysql?
Action: jamest is just giving ajmitch a hard time
<jamest> with the gazillon installs for mysql it must be doing something right
<ajmitch> say if you're developing something for systems already with mysql
<chillywilly> use gsd and you get them all right? ;)
<ajmitch> or if you want to make something based on a db even simpler than mysql (like gadfly)
<ajmitch> would probably be easier for me to get the current id value, increment it, and save it back
<jamest> you using inno ?
<jamest> ajmitch?
<ajmitch> nope
<jamest> what's your backend then?
<ajmitch> huh?
<ajmitch> i'm currently using mysql
<jamest> mysql supports multiple backends
<ajmitch> will probably do forms for non-mysql stuff at some point
<ajmitch> hmm ok
<ajmitch> i'm just using boring old standard mysql from debian sid
<jamest> http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/SEC468.html
<jcater> ajmitch: will other programs be accessing this table?
<jcater> accessing == inserting records
<jamest> http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/ODBC_and_last_insert_id.html
<jamest> this should work for us I think
<jcater> dude
<jcater> there's no way
<jamest> ah, crap I misread that
<jamest> that's AFTER the insert isn't it
<jcater> yeah
<jamest> ajmitch: here's what you do
<jcater> but that's what I keep coming back to 
<jamest> create a table gnue_seed
<jcater> that, or  select max(id)+1 from table;
<ajmitch> jcater: nah, only this one for now
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> then let's create a real sequence :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<jamest> then make the getSequence in the db driver read the seed via a select for update, update it, 
Action: ajmitch gets confused
<jamest> then have it print to the debug log
<ajmitch> only got 3 hours sleep last night ;)
<jamest> "compensating for the lack of a sane database"
<ajmitch> i have no problems with dropping the tables & starting again
<jcater> ajmitch: great!!!!!
<jcater> do that
<jcater> then do apt-get install postgresql
<ajmitch> haha
<ajmitch> i already have postgresql running here
<jcater> dudes
<ajmitch> i want to know how to do this for any mysql form :)
<jcater> there has to be some way to get at that autoincremenet
<jamest> oooooo
<jamest> nevermind
<ajmitch> this is just a test form for now
<ajmitch> because i was bored ;)
Action: ajmitch would have thought this would be a 2-minute thing with mysql, at most
<chillywilly> buuurp
<jcater> ajmitch: so did I
<dneighbo> jcater / jamest did you see my back log the other day
<dneighbo> closing designer/forms crashed my X instance completely
<dneighbo> same as happened to jamest
<jamest> no, it locks mine
Action: dneighbo notes this was after about 1.5 hours of using forms/designer
Action: dneighbo isnt saying gnue is the cause, but it smells fishy
<jamest> i've used it all day with crash issues
<jamest> had 1 lockup issue that is non reproducable 
<dneighbo> jamest: so you confirming that gnue is crashing X
<jamest> no, x is fine
<jcater> using gnue for 1.5 hrs?!?!?!
<jcater> what, are you nuts!
<jamest> it's locking keyboard focus onto itself
<jcater> that could cause blindness, you know
<jamest> and not letter go
<jamest> x is fine
<jamest> :)
<ajmitch> jamest: i had one lockup
<dneighbo> jcater: well when it works i can uses it all day :)
Action: dneighbo has a slew of gnue-sb commits
<dneighbo> like i think almost every form is fully functional now :)
Action: ajmitch tries again to see if he locks it
<jamest> we're in the middle of a release 
<dneighbo> i just was finishing the last form when it died
<jamest> as in tying up the text files
<ajmitch> hmm no
<jamest> so it'll have to wait 
<dneighbo> and then i had to run
<dneighbo> jamest: thats fine
<jamest> btw - checkboxes work again 
<jamest> thank you jcater
<dneighbo> i have no problem releasing with known bugs
<ajmitch> tag it for next release if we have another 0.4.x
Action: dneighbo just wanted to make sure i voiced my 'experience'
<dneighbo> i.e. wanting to give you all feedback
<jamest> thank yo
Action: jcater wasn't paying attention
<jcater> but: 
<jamest> we needed the testing
<jcater> if feedback == positive: 
<jcater>   print "um, thanks"
<jcater> else:
<jcater>   print "We didn't ask"
<jcater> I think that covers it
Action: jcater ducks
<jamest>   print "must be on your end"
<jcater> hehe
<jcater> yeah, that's better
Action: ajmitch files a couple of bugs :)
<chillywilly> print "dneighbo did it"
<chillywilly> print "run with --disable-masta-hooks"
<ajmitch> hehe, i love how it says jcater is responsible for the forms bugs when submitted :)
<dneighbo> jcater: actually almsot all my feedback was very positive
<jcater> cool
<jcater> then:
<jcater> "um, thanks"
<dneighbo> stating stuff that hasnt worked in a year is now working
<dneighbo> and that stuff was very solid
<dneighbo> and i was able to be HIGHLY productive with it
<ajmitch> sounds like this release might be worth using then
<jamest> about time you updated your forms, you know we try and break the gfd at every release
<dneighbo> the only real thing i ran into was the crashing X
<dneighbo> and that was after almost 2 hours of productive
<dneighbo> time
<jamest> and if you didn't update your forms then we musta come full circle
<jamest> pwd
<dneighbo>  /home/jamest/
<jcater> /home/jamest/goat-pr0n-nov-02
<chillywilly> lol
<jcater> ok, everyone
<jcater> for the immediate future
<jcater> docs are at:
<jcater> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/docs/
<jcater> psu: if you read this
<chillywilly> w00t
<jcater> psu: where do you want them
<dneighbo> jcater: did you submit fix to pyscopg folks?
<dneighbo> or file a bug to them?
<jcater> oops, I forgot the html versions... they are uploaded now
<jcater> dneighbo: I'm going to have to spend some time on that
<jcater> and do a simple script that can repeat the issue
<ajmitch> jcater: oh btw: http://ajmitch.dhis.org/devel/classdocs/
<ajmitch> just a simple class hierarchy for now
<jcater> gack
<jcater> that's scary looking
<ajmitch> yup
<jcater> :)
<jcater> alrighty everyone
<jcater> time's up
<jcater> cvs is being tagged
<ajmitch> excellent
Action: dneighbo loves gsd
<dneighbo> jcater: is it working in designer again?
<dneighbo> i.e. the wizard to create them from db's?
<jcater> I think so
<jcater> that's gonna get a hefty overhaul shortly
<dneighbo> otay
<jamest> bash-2.05a$ history | grep tag
<jamest>   750  cvs tag common-0-4-1
<jamest>   755  cvs tag designer-0-4-1
<jamest>   759  cvs tag forms-0-4-1
<jamest>   776  cvs tag navigator-0-0-2
<jamest> missed on
<jamest>   764  cvs tag reports-0-1-0
<dneighbo> mmm mmm goodness
<dneighbo> jcater: im seeing that very quickly we will need to address gsd 'diffs'
<dneighbo> i.e. schema mods
<dneighbo> as currently its easy for me as i know what im changing so i just drop the thing i modified and rerun script
<jcater> dneighbo: already in the works
<dneighbo> otay
Action: dneighbo likes irc tonight
<dneighbo> favorable responses, minimal 'hang the bloody bastard' and a release to boot
<dneighbo> does it get any better?
<chillywilly> we could have pizza and donuts
<jcater> ok, everyone do the dance with me:  http://www.gnuenterprise.org/var/www/downloads/prereleases/
<jcater> err
<jcater> s,var/www,
<dneighbo> SO KICK ASS
<jcater> http://www.gnuenteprise.org/downloads/prereleases/
<dneighbo> my contact_manager.gfd now saves in gnue_sb!!!
<dneighbo> i think that was last non functional form in there
<jcater> fsck
<jcater> nickserv isn't letting me log in
<jcater> if that dependent on my hostname?
<jcater> s/if/is
<chillywilly> I dun think so
<chillywilly> does it complain?
<jcater> tells me bad password
<jcater> which I don't buy
<jcater> I just don't forget passwords, dammit
<chillywilly> yes you do
<chillywilly> ;)
#gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jcater' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jcater!~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com: One last dance: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php ... do your part.
<dneighbo> cool even the nested/custom block navigation functions
<jcater> it, um, remembered my password
<jcater> dumb thing
<jcater> ;)
<dneighbo> ok new gnue-sb committed
<dneighbo> item management and contact management forms should 'function'
<dneighbo> they could be improved a bit
<dneighbo> and could have more features
<dneighbo> but the basic schema's and forms are there and do work!
<dneighbo> basically the two custom pieces i had hodgepodged at one time are now functioning
<dneighbo> i will look at 'feature maps' now for gnuesb
<jcater> cool
<dneighbo> and will build on these blocks as i begin to fold in stuff from NOLA
<dneighbo> btw: jcater/jamest MAJOR kudos to this release
<dneighbo> it is by far the best gnue we have seen to date
<jcater> so, what is this release's name?
<dneighbo> hardly seems fair to consider it a x.x.X release
<jcater> is it the "dneighbo is ecstatic" release?
<jcater> dneighbo: actually, it was mostly cleanup
<dneighbo> sure we can nick name it DIE
<dneighbo> hmmm RFID interesting concept
<jcater> ?
<dneighbo> wireless barcodes basically
<dneighbo> instead of a 'barcode' product has a an RF transmitable tag
<dneighbo> the trick is alien technologies just bumped the technology forward by lightyears
<dneighbo> coming up with sub .10 RFID tags
<dneighbo> of which someone just bought 500 million
<dneighbo> almost half of what is on the market currently
<dneighbo> all starwars toys ship with them
<dneighbo> http://www.rfidjournal.com/FAQs.html
<dneighbo> two immediately striking things are 
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> I've read about these
<dneighbo> they can carry tihngs like 'expiration dates'
<chillywilly> next toe gov't embeds a chip into everyone's skull in order to keep track of them
<dneighbo> but i think places really using them are by 'pallets'
<dneighbo> you can skrink a whole pallet
<dneighbo> and scan the items w/o unbundling the pallet
<dneighbo> or so it would seem
<dneighbo> since they are not based on line of sight
<jcater> dneighbo: we traditionally have a "In other news, ...." paragraph at the end of our release announcements
<jcater> do you want gnue-sb mentioned there?
<dneighbo> yes please
<chillywilly> why does this stuff make me think they are gonna se RFIDs to track ppl?
<dneighbo> it needs people starting to beat on it
<chillywilly> am I paranoid?
<jcater> chillywilly: the range on those RFIDs are really small
<chillywilly> ok
<jcater> i.e. they are great for warehousing
<dneighbo> chillywilly: if you stuff starwars figures up your ass, you deserve to be tracked ;)
<jcater> but you are talking a few feet, iirc
<jcater> dneighbo: rofl
<dneighbo> jcater: when i was ops manager at macy's
<chillywilly> dneighbo: I know where you are
<dneighbo> we were all RF based to inventory system
<dneighbo> and we had 3 story building
<dneighbo> probably 20,000 sqft per floor
<dneighbo> and we were running about 4 repeaters per floor
<dneighbo> one in each corner
<dneighbo> and at times we had 'blank' spots where it would cut out
<dneighbo> i would think its similar to wifi in range
<dneighbo> i.e. about that of a large home
<dneighbo> 3,000sqft or so
<jcater> but I think these RFIDs are so low power, they are even smaller range than that
jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<ajmitch> hey jeff
<jamest> jbailey: we released/are releasing today
<jamest> any chance we can get new debs marked same version # but 0.4.1b instead of a
<jbailey> Nice.  Are you using a version number that I can use? =)
<jamest> we used 0.4.1
<jamest> for forms
<jbailey> *cry*
<ajmitch> jbailey: be glad he didn't use a negative number :)
<jbailey> Mmm..  I can probably hack around it.
<jcater> that should be a simple change to your GNUE_VERSION_SUFFIX
<jcater> you currently have
<jcater> GNUE_VERSION_SUFFIX=-`date ....`
<jcater> couldn't that just be
<jcater> GNUE_VERSION_SUFFIX=b-`date ....`
<jbailey> It could be, but normally I would pull the tarball from a released directory.
<jbailey> Y'know - wanting man pages and all that. =)
<dneighbo> why cant we use 0.4.1
<dneighbo> ?
<jcater> jbailey: I can do tarballs with that if you'd like
<jbailey> dneighbo: 0.4.1 is lexically a lower version that 0.4.1a
<dneighbo> ah
<jamest> jbailey: are they hard to make?
<jamest> or get in sid?
<jbailey> jamest: Which 'they' in this case?
<jamest> the debs
<jbailey> No, not at all.
<jamest> i can test them tonight as I'm getting ready to update some production equipemnt
<jbailey> Once I have a tarball, I just overwrite the one that's there, change the version number in two places and upload.
<ajmitch> people dump all sorts of crap in sid
Action: jcater can do a tarball marked as "b" if you need it
<ajmitch> 0.4.1release :)
<jamest> 0.4.1damnMaintainersDidntListen
<jamest> or is it damnDevelopers
Action: jcater votes on damnChillywilly
<jcater> not sure why though
<jcater> :)
<jbailey> =)
<chillywilly> *sigh*
<jamest> oooo, good one
<jcater> oooo
<jcater> or
<jcater> 0.4.1derekLikesThisOne
<jcater> ;)
<ajmitch> 0.4.1sillyDebianNumbering
<chillywilly> i hope you all get leprosy and your male appendage falls off
Action: dneighbo is away: family
<jcater> chillywilly: even the women here?
<jcater> oh, wait.....
Action: chillywilly looks around
Action: chillywilly hands his glasses to jcater
<jbailey> What's your perscription?
Action: dneighbo is back (gone 00:04:17)
<dneighbo> guess wife wont be ready for movie for another 40 minutes
<chillywilly> heheh
<dneighbo> jcater: my connection is still knind of sluggishs can you verify if there is a createon/by date/time 'recipe' in the guide
<dneighbo> before i download it
Action: dneighbo is thinking its  straightforward on-commit trigger
<jcater> well
<jcater> um
<dneighbo> but am not sure syntax to get 'userid'
<jcater> if you'd downloaded these final tarballs to help out
<jcater> like a good team player
<jcater> then you'd have them
<dneighbo> are they uploaded?
Action: jcater goes into hiding
<dneighbo> if so i will grab right now
<jamest> yeah, they're uploaded
<jcater> see the topic
<dneighbo> as i really want to be running a stable release
<dneighbo> that says prerelease
<jamest> yeah
Action: dneighbo thought you guys just mention you bundled the final release
<jcater> those are final unless they don't install for someone
<jamest> they are finals 
<dneighbo> ok
Action: dneighbo gets it now
<jamest> when okd it a mv * ../current
<jcater> I'll just do a mv if they are ok
<dneighbo> downloading
<jcater> dneighbo: we have a createdon recipe
<jcater> but createdby
<jcater> who is 
<jcater> "
<jcater> "by"
<jcater> ?
<dneighbo> ?
<jamest> i think he wants the username of the logged in user
<dneighbo> yes
Action: dneighbo wasnt sure how to get that info via trigger
<jcater> username == username as logged into the database
<jamest> i almost understand jcater communicatoin
<jamest> like I almost understand jcater code
<jamest> somebody help me
<chillywilly> lol
<jcater> dneighbo: I know we can do that via triggers
<dneighbo> jcater: well what if you are using a custom 'authenicator'
<jcater> but we probably need to add a convenience method
Action: dneighbo had to make all my 'transactional' stuff like that nullable for now in gnue-sb
<dneighbo> until i get good trigger way to do it (or a convenience method)
<dneighbo> then i will add it back in
Action: dneighbo thinks the date part is taken care of
<dneighbo> if the db is setup properly
<dneighbo> as on should use function that posts timestamp if null else nothing if there
<dneighbo> and the modified should use function that posts timestamp no matter what
<dneighbo> though it would be better to amke it in application i think
Action: dneighbo is just so happy that its looking so good
<dneighbo> jamest: tool made front page of phoenix entertainment section here
<dneighbo> you interested in a copy
Action: dneighbo thinks he remembers you are a tool fan
<jamest> yeah
<jcater> what?
<jcater> no backstreet boys?
<jbailey> "I want it that way"
<jcater> be forewarned folks
<jcater> make sure you are somewhat happy with this release
<jcater> as cvs will break for a little while
<jcater> (not too long, but it will break)
<dneighbo> actually they made front page with a reference to a&e section
<dneighbo> article: "A thinking fan's band: metal master tool revises its thought-provoking show"
<dneighbo> guess they will be in concert here tuesday
<dneighbo> rock they had gilbert high marching band drum corps in their last concert here
<dneighbo> as the nephew of Adam Jones goes to school there :)
<dneighbo> jamest: i can likely get you lots of high quality Tool live concerts
<dneighbo> if you are interested as well
<jcater> wife must've gotten ahold of him
<dneighbo> they are a good live band as they do things on the fly
Action: dneighbo thought it was my lag time
<jamest> maybe
Action: dneighbo was going to cut and mail you the article but its online
<dneighbo> http://www.arizonarepublic.com/ae/articles/1117tool17.html
<dneighbo> just no photo of the band (which is pretty funny)
<dneighbo> they are in a group holding hands like a circle
<dneighbo> but chancellor (on left) has his hand making a hole by cupping index finger and thumb
<dneighbo> and maynard (on right) has index finger outstretched inserting it the 'hole'
<dneighbo> complete the circle
<dneighbo> sexual inneundo implied :)
<jbailey> That's like the little dutch boy with the finger in the dyke? =)
Action: dneighbo wonders about #debian
<dneighbo> a guy asks about getting apm support and someone tells him
<dneighbo> recompile your kernel
<dneighbo> its like WTF thats stock as a module in every debian kernel
<jcater> anyone having any luck (good or ill) with those tarballs?
<dneighbo> finally someone else gave wild syntax to just add the module (already provided by debian)
<dneighbo> i suggested using modconf
<dneighbo> and people screamed that wont work...
Action: dneighbo hasnt had modconf fail yet inserting modules (but im no debian guru)
Action: dneighbo thinks its no wonder most people hate debian they get support from wrong places ;)
<jbailey> What's modconf? =)
Action: dneighbo gratiously thanks nickr, ajmitch, jbailey, jamest, jcater for the stellar debian support they provide here
<jbailey> Do most people hate Debian?
<dneighbo> yes
<dneighbo> in our LUG
<jbailey> My experience is that most people hate installing Debian.
<dneighbo> when i started there only 1 out 60 folks ran debian
<jbailey> I certainly do. =)
<dneighbo> after helping install debian and over a year or so showing them power of debina
<ajmitch> debian users are by far the most vocal in out LUG
<dneighbo> i woudl say about half are running debian
<dneighbo> nearly everyone tried it
<dneighbo> but failed at install and gave up
<dneighbo> i have yet to find someone who had help installing and were shown how to get audio and such working
<dneighbo> that didnt stick with it
<dneighbo> sadly this is one of debians main weak points
<dneighbo> i think a xandros or good debian distro could change that
<dneighbo> or better yet if HP would just sell Debian PC's ;)
<jbailey> The new debian installer is reported to be amazing.
<dneighbo> then the install could be avoided altogether
<jbailey> But there's some chance that sarge won't ship with it.  The other ports aren't diving in quickly enough to get it running.
<ajmitch> jbailey: any chance of the hurd port releasing with sarge+1? ;)
<jbailey> If I were a stats major, I might inform you that the probability was non-zero.
<jbailey> As a gratutious developper, I'd say that we're on a firm 'maybe'.
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> would depend a lot on the criteria for release
<ajmitch> hopefully decent GNUe packages can find their way into sarge :)
<ajmitch> would probably want a stable set by then :)
Action: dneighbo is away: movie
<jbailey> gnue-common will be in sarge in two weeks.
Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jcater!~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com: New releases available! http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php
<jcater> jbailey: great!
Action: jcater does a happy dance
<jcater> **********
<jcater> The GNU Enterprise team is proud to announce a new release of
<jcater> it's enterprise application development suite.  This release
<jcater> includes:
<jcater>     o GNUe Forms 0.4.1
<jcater>     o GNUe Reports 0.1.0
<jcater>     o GNUe Designer 0.4.1
<jcater>     o GNUe Common 0.4.1
<jcater>     o GNUe Navigator 0.0.2
<jcater> **********
<jbailey> The only reason it's not in sarge now is because I've been waiting for the release to upload a version with the bugs fixed.
Action: chillywilly is invisible
#gnuenterprise: mode change '-o jcater' by jcater!~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com
<jcater> dude!
<jcater> where'd chillywilly go?
<chillywilly> who cares?
<jcater> what was that?
<jcater> did someone say something?
<chillywilly> it was nothing
<chillywilly> a fart in the wind
Action: jcater wondered what the smell was
<jcater> and here I thought it was the donut box from 2 weeks ago I haven't trashed
<jbailey> invisible?
<jbailey> That's the state you reach after 4 tequilas, yes?
Action: chillywilly wouldn't know
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> I guess that makes me opulent
<jcater> or translucent?
<chillywilly> ppl who drink are we and cannot deal with reality ;)
<chillywilly> weak
<jcater> are you kidding
<jcater> I deal w/reality pretty darn well after a few drinks
<jbailey> I can be weak.
<jbailey> Who the hell wants to be strong all the time? =)
Action: drochaid showered just last month ....
<chillywilly> jbailey: yo mamma does
<jbailey> showers?
<drochaid> not with me!!!
<drochaid> I'd have noticed
<jcater> shower?
<jcater> what's that?
<jbailey> drochaid: I'd hope not.  She's been dead for 2 years. =)
<jcater> is that one of those newfangled things like an outhouse?
<chillywilly> not sure...
Action: drochaid shivers
<chillywilly> I read about them once
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> my bddy has this as part of his sig
<chillywilly> I predict Microsoft will be in dire strates by the winter of 2004 due to
<chillywilly> the loss of enterprise computing clients.  These customers will migrate
<chillywilly> to Open Source alternatives which offer freedom.  I am a part of this
<chillywilly> software revolution.
<drochaid> OI
<jcater> hmmm
<drochaid> don't use Dire Straits name like that :P
<jcater> that's better than my "Please send donuts" sig, I guess
Action: jcater thought about changing to "Your mom uses GNUe... shouldn't you?"
<jbailey> drochaid: Which part of the is a dire straights name?
<drochaid> just change the spelling a little ;)
<chillywilly> it's a band dewd
<chillywilly> old skewl
<drochaid> :)
<jbailey> Money for nothing and your chicks for free..  'veryone knows them.
<jbailey> I used to have the vinal for brothers in arms. =)
<chillywilly> sorry, how am I supposed to know what ppl in canadia listen to? ;)
<drochaid> thought it was all celine dion?
Action: drochaid ducks and runs
<chillywilly> jcater: I see you're still using sylpheed
<jcater> yeah
<chillywilly> didn't make the switch to evilution yet? ;)
<jcater> evolution still's a little more heavy weight than I want
<chillywilly> a *little*?
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> just
<chillywilly> mutt forever
<jcater> >                                                                           <
<jcater> this much
<chillywilly> gotcha
<jbailey> I like evolution
<chillywilly> it's bloated
<jcater> I do think I'm giving it to my callcenter though
<chillywilly> well it's a nice M$ alternative
<chillywilly> I just couldn't stand it anymore :P
<chillywilly> I don't need html email
<chillywilly> or calendaring
<jbailey> I have severla people who send me html mail. =(
<jbailey> Also, I like how easy it is to auto-file into folders.
<jcater> first thing I do w/all my users
<drochaid> jbailey: shun them!!!
<jcater> go thru and change their "html email" setting
<jcater> to off
<chillywilly> jbailey: procmail ;)
<chillywilly> jcater: :)
Action: jcater is serious
<chillywilly> I believe you
<jcater> no html mail leaves my mail servers
<jbailey> jcater: That is too much work for *me*.
<chillywilly> a smile doesn't mean I think you are joking
<jbailey> chillywilly: I haven't found anything that lets me do three clicks to setup procmail filters.
<chillywilly> who uses a mouse?
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> those are for lusers ;)
<jcater> gah
<jcater> something does not compute
<jbailey> ACtually, you're right.
<jcater> jbailey maintains glibc
<jbailey> Most of the time I don't use the mouse.
<jbailey> I use my pen.
<jcater> and works on hurd
<jbailey> =)
<jcater> but doesn't use procmail vilters
<jcater> filters
<jcater> because they're not 3 clicks?
Action: jcater falls out of his chair
KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jbailey> jcater: I pick my battles.
<jbailey> procmail is *not* generally one them
<jbailey> Despite my love of sendmail. =)
<KeithJagrs> hello
Action: chillywilly uses exim with procmail
<chillywilly> exim, procmail, and courier imap
<jbailey> Not mailutils?  bah!
<jbailey> =)
limi (~count@59.80-202-174.nextgentel.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
limi (~count@59.80-202-174.nextgentel.com) left #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> roflmao
<jcater> I sent out the gnue-announce notice
<jcater> text only, of course
<jcater> got an email response from postmaster@iximd.com
<jcater> The Mail Server at IXIMD.COM has rejected and discarded an e-mail that APPEARS
<jcater> to have originated from:  Jason Cater <jcater@gnue.org>
<jcater> ....
<jcater> Due to the ever increasing proliferation of e-mail borne viruses, attachments
<jcater> of this type are no longer being accepted or delivered by the servers at IXI.
<jcater> .....
<jcater> so, um, text-only messages are virus-prone now
<jcater> ?
Action: jcater wonders what they do accept
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org"
rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: Client Quit
fixe (~adam@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting"
<dneighbo> jcater: did you gpg sign the message?
<jcater> no
<jcater> I don't have that set up at home
<dneighbo> if so dumb ass windows often thinks it an attachment and does well 'odd' things to it
<dneighbo> like assume its a virus
<dneighbo> which i find hilarious
<jcater> that is funny
<dneighbo> you sign a mail to ensure someone knows its from you and windows cans it as a virus
<dneighbo> jcater: you do freshmeat releases or you want me to?
<jcater> you can
<jcater> all I did was gnue-* lists
<jcater> psu usually picks that up and does gnuenterprise.org announce
<dneighbo> cool
Action: dneighbo REALLY wishes gnu.org/software/gnue-sb was in place instead of nongnu.org/gnue-sb
<dneighbo> so i could possibly do some more pr
<dneighbo> maybe tomorrow we can resolve
Action: dneighbo is resolved i think to just checkin to the other cvs
<dneighbo> and see if shows up
<jbailey> What's gnue-sb?
<nickr> small business
<ajmitch> hmmmmm
<Isomer> how is gnue-sb going?
<dneighbo> good
<dneighbo> its commit list is limping
<dneighbo> but it got some serious action today :)
<ajmitch> good :)
<ajmitch> hi Isomer, fancy seeing you here
<jbailey> Why don't you just have gnue-sb under gnuenterprise.org ?
<Isomer> ajmitch: amazing that :)
<ajmitch> jbailey: anoncvs access
<ajmitch> and stuff like that :)
<ajmitch> it was more fun to hassle the savannah people, too
<dneighbo> rofl
<dneighbo> jbailey: because we dont want people to think we have abandoned appserver and more robust SAP R/3 type implementation
<dneighbo> we needed something QUICK
<dneighbo> that was two tier and ready to ship within a quarter or two
<dneighbo> i.e. read not something perfect with ultimate planning and documentation
<dneighbo> but something worked and could be extended
<dneighbo> plus its fun to annoy the savannah admins
<jcater> hey
<jcater> it got me root!
<jcater> that was worth it
Action: jcater hides
<jbailey> You got root on subversions?
<jbailey> Wow.
Action: jcater smacks jbailey around
<jcater> I'm not exactly an admin newbie
<dneighbo> yeah, why do you think they gave you access
Action: dneighbo runs from savannah team and jcater ;0
<jbailey> Yeah, but considering the policy is "Why the hell do you think you need a shell account"
<jbailey> The idea of them giving someone root access is phenominal!
<jcater> jbailey: I think I know why
<jbailey> I think the rest of the gnu servers are down to a half dozen or a dozen folks with root.
<jcater> I think they were tired of dneighbo pestering them
<ajmitch> ugh
[23:54] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<ajmitch> someone submitting an accounting project to savannah
<ajmitch> Other Software Required:                                                                                                                                     
<ajmitch> Apache                                                                                                                                                       
<ajmitch> PHP4                                                                                                                                                         
<ajmitch> MySQL/PostgreSQL        
<jcater> sickos
<jcater> dude
<jcater> if they want a LAMP solution
<jcater> there's plenty out there for them to join
Action: jcater shudders at the thought
<jcater> but still...
<ajmitch> it's a phpgw app, by the looks of things
<ajmitch> https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/accwhizz/
<dneighbo> well if its non gnu great
<dneighbo> if its trying to submit for gnu
<dneighbo> you can bet your but i will volunteer for the 'evaluation' :)
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> afaict it's not going for GNU
<ajmitch> but it's another project you could borrow stuff from :)
<ajmitch> they sort of sound like they know what they're doing
--- Mon Nov 18 2002