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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hij
<psu> hmm
<psu> now that i've got KC under control
<psu> by the simple expediant of doing 1 thread a day, no more
<ajmitch> ah :(
<psu> guess I ought to look at the TODO list for the website
<ajmitch> so the KC will drastically shrink
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<ajmitch> hi reinhard
<reinhard> good morning
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<Arturas> Hello
<psu> Hi Arturas
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<btami> good morning
<psu> europe awakes ;-)
<Arturas> :)
<reinhard> good morning all
<reinhard> psu: can i send you html pdf and text version of the current appserver whitepaper?
<reinhard> (for putting on website)
<psu> yes
<psu> I was just going to ask you ;-)
<reinhard> ok
<reinhard> does psu@gnue.org work?
<psu> I only have a long one...
<psu> psu@gnuenterprise.org
<reinhard> ok
<psu> unconcious double entendre before 7:30 am  - gonna be a long day...
<reinhard> ok sent
<reinhard> thanks
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<ajmitch> gnue.org != gnuenterprise.org for mail? 
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<psu> ajmitch: stuff sent to valid addresses on gnue.org gets automagically fwd
<ajmitch> ok
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<psu> but I don't believe there is a generic "*@gnue.org -> *@gnuenterprise.org
Action: psu desperately needs a yea or nay from FSF re php for website
<psu> as this is what is holding me back from commiting it to CVS
<psu> yea == just check in what is already in ash
<psu> nay == more work, but not a disaster as there are other ways we can do it
<ajmitch> what? why?
<psu> one of the aims of site redesign was to have same site at 
<psu> www.gnuenterprise.org & www.gnu.org/software/gnue
<psu> as we had two diff sites before, and weren't updating the gnu one
<ajmitch> ok
<psu> anyway
<psu> four back-to-back meetings at work today == no lunch
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<btami> hi jamest
<jamest> hi
<btami> have you got my e-mail ?
<jamest> let me check
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<jamest> btami: the reports filters?
<btami> yes
<jamest> i got it but not looked yet
<btami> ok
<jamest> did derek send you that paperwork?
<jamest> er, email
<btami> no
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> i need a few minutes then I can send to you 
<btami> have you time to answer some question?
<jamest> me? yeah
<btami> i'v just seen the new gfd format in samples
<jamest> yeah
<btami> i have some notices in general
<jamest> ok
<btami> what do you think about splitting the logic and layout in reports too
<btami> in the same way
<btami> it was my 1.
<btami> 2. what do you tink about introducing namespaces in gfd's layout, as in reports
<btami> 3. it would be good to use <datasource> tags in the same way in gfd's and in grd's
<jamest> 1. I don't know enough there yet to make a valid comment
<btami> now gfd's doesn't use <sources> tag
<jamest> 2. In what why would you want to see them used.  Jcater and I have been talking about using namespaces to denote a layout manager to use.
<btami> yes
<jamest> 3. we've talked about it
<jamest> the one thing about layout management is.....would people use it and why would people use it
<jamest> a lot of people have a gut reaction to say it's needed but is it?
<jamest> what do we gain?
<btami> one possible answer is
<btami> someone never wants to use curses, just gui
<btami> and why use just character based forms
<jamest> well, 2 things
<btami> i mean x,y are integers
<jamest> 1) no matter what I'm pretty sure any layout manager would drop to char based placement
<jamest> 2) even gui only what does layout manager gain us
<jamest> seriously
<jamest> my personal experiences with layout management are that people spend a fair bit of time fighting the layout manager
<jamest> nesting layout managers to get the style they want, resizing seeing how it breaks, then more coding to compensate for that
<jamest> and I'm not sure what it gains us
<reinhard> just my 2 euro-cents on layout manager:
<reinhard> * layout manager lets us have multi-language forms
<reinhard> (where a label can be different lengths in different languages
<reinhard> * layout manager makes it possible to make better use of screen space
<jamest> done?
<reinhard> no phone :(
<jamest> point 1 is good enough for me
<jamest> point 2 I'm not sold on, i have no desire to turn forms into a pixel based system
<jamest> not saying I can't be sold on the idea just I don't see the need
<btami> about poin 2
<jamest> but I'm thinking that point 1 alone means you'll see it in the 0.5.x releases
<jamest> we were on the fence as it was :)
<btami> it let you to use different fonts on one form
<jamest> btami: I have absolutely no interest in that
<jamest> we're not building a widget set (ala gtk)
<jamest> I think I'm ok with font styles 
<jamest> but I don't want the complexities of a widget set
<btami> i wanted to say: font styles
<jamest> again, gtk as an example, the coder has to wade thru huge amounts of documentation just to get the basics up and running
<reinhard> ok back
<jamest> the gfd format was to remain simple and easily understood by the average user
<reinhard> jamest: with 2 i wasn't thinking of using space better pixel-wise
<jamest> I've had part time html coders read and understand the basics of the gfd
<reinhard> but for example if i have a smaller font then a layout manager could decide to display more lines in a grid
<jamest> and even the layout changes have me a bit nervous about increasing complexity
<jamest> gack!!!!!
<reinhard> *3 not a biggie but i would love to see varable width fonts working
<jamest> i have to leave for work in < 30minutes and I'm sitting here in a robe!
Action: jamest couldn't sleep but hasn't got ready for work yet
<reinhard> *4 would make it possible to "merge" forms definitions from different sources (modules)
<jamest> reinhard: we'll have to contine a bit later in the day, got to run
<reinhard> ok
<jamest> 4. good point
<reinhard> however this is just my EUR 0.02
<jamest> :)
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<btami> as i read, there  was two "good" from jamest :)
<reinhard> btami: :)
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<jamest> btami: can I get your email address?
<jamest> ra3vat_: sloppyQuery is back in 
<btami> jamest: btami@freemail.hu
<btami> jamest: just back to my 1.
<btami> separating logic from layout in report
<btami> has the same advantages as in forms
<btami> cleaner xml to read/dit
<btami> and more flexibility
<btami> s/dit/edit
<jamest> btami: I'm willing to bet you'll see it but I really can't say
<jamest> i think once the forms gfd format is settled upon we'll make the others match it where it makes sense
<btami> ok
<jamest> btami: i sent you the email
<jamest> please let me know if you get it
<btami> ok, got it
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Action: Arturas has learned to use pydb - it's just beautiful!!! :) :) :)
<btami> what's that ?
<jamest> python's built in debugger
<btami> ah
<jamest> all gnue common based apps support it built in
<jamest> the --interactive-debugger command line option
<btami> never used, but will try :)
<Arturas> it was problematic a bit to learn, but that's what i missed most from Delphi :)
<jamest> Arturas: are you using it in our tools or other?
<btami> bye
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<Arturas> currently hunting down checkbox bug and feeling excited :) - some time ago tried to hunt it using a lot of print statements :/
<jamest> what's checkbox doing?
<Arturas> the problem is it's doing nothing :) when it's selected and activated (via mouse or keyboard) it should change both it's value (~self.value) and appear as selected (or deselected) in visual form; however, (1) when checkbox looses focus, it's visual appearance return's back to initial state (deselected) and (2) once checked it's impossible to uncheck it and check it and uncheck it.... as it it was disabled
<jamest> Arturas: what code base?
<Arturas> it doesn't work in short :)
<Arturas> code base == ?
<Arturas> i guess wx
<jamest> is this in cvs head?
<jamest> cvs 0.4.x branch
<Arturas> no
<jamest> or other
<Arturas> branch
<jamest> wtf?
<Arturas> mm
<jamest> i depend upon this working daily
<Arturas> hm
<jamest> lemme check something
<Arturas> i guess i've mixed up something
<ra3vat_> jamest: does sloppyQuery work by default?
<jamest> ra3vat_: no, you set it per field via sloppyQuery=""
<jamest> Arturas: I'm running cvs latest here w/ no checkbox issues
<jamest> this sounds like a pre 0.4.1 issue we had in the displayHandler
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<Arturas> i'm having big delay while trying to update cvs now :/ 
<jamest> jbailey: I put prereleases up last nite
<jbailey> jamest: Very cool.  Should I just do a cvs update?
<jamest> um.......
<jbailey> On the increasingly misnames '4-1-x-branch'?
<jamest> i think that'd be ok unless someone else did something
<jamest> go for it
<jbailey> Okay - I'll do that when I get into work.
<jbailey> Then I have to actually build this form.
<jbailey> =)
<jbailey> I haven't really looked, but do I have any control over fonts and stuff in forms?
<jamest> well, todays a good day for it
<jamest> not much
<jbailey> All of the screenshot pages all seem to be done in the same font.
<jamest> yip
<jbailey> Do you have a rough guess as to how long I have until I have to start thinking about 0.5.0 debs?
<jbailey> I'm just trying to place my courses.
<Arturas> jamest: checkouted cvs, it was my problem - checkboxes are working and i'm stupid :(
<Arturas> jamest: thank you :)
<jamest> jbailey: 0.5.0 is almost stable now 
<jamest> i would say mid to late decemeber
<jamest> as a guestimate
<jbailey> Ah, okay - sooner than I thought.
<jbailey> Well, Maybe between Christmas and New years then.
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<ariel_> i'm trying to run cross-tabulation.grd, is distinct="Y" implemented?
<jamest> not sure
<jamest> i seem to recall seeing something about distinct in the db drivers
<jamest> i can dig deeper in a few minutes
<ariel_> if it doesn't work is this workaround feasible? :
<ariel_> creating a view in the db as select ... distinct ...
<ariel_> linking the datasource to the view?
<jamest> i run reports from views daily
<jamest> no issues
<ra3vat_> jamest: sloppy is really very sloppy :)
<Arturas> bye
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<derek> jamest: one possible use of name spaces is XUL or HTML forms
<derek> i.e. someone could take a form and namespace it for html or other 'content' including layout
<derek> if they were making an hmtlDriver or such
Action: derek thinks layout management might be a bit to chew for 0.5.0 but think it would nice to have (if for nothing else so people stop asking for it)
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<jbailey> CVS pull on it's way.
<jbailey> That branch name didn't change or anything silly like that, right? =)
<jbailey> Hmm.  Only one file chanegd in forms: P src/GFObjects/GFBlock.py
<jbailey> Is that expected?
<jamest> derek: i'm pretty sure it'll only be used to denote the layout manager to use
<jamest> jbailey: that seems right
<derek> jamest: i think you missed my greater point
<derek> once you add namespace capability 'others' can use it for their needs, perhaps in ways you never intended :)
<derek> i.e. i said 'someone could' not 'we should' ;)
<jamest> what?
<jamest> derek: i don't follow?
<derek> i had said someone could take namespaces and use for html or other 'content layout'
<derek> you had said you were pretty sure it will only be used to denote layout manager to use
<derek> i think pointed out that once its there, people might use it in ways you dont expect
<derek> that i didnt, but i could see other people doing so
<derek> as when we authored jadeke and in workign with XUL we used namespaces in some pretty cool ways
<derek> i dont see gnue namespace in the sameway but likely someone clever with xml will think of an interesting use
<derek> jamest: did you get the bug i filed for forms last night?
Action: derek thinks its likely a config issue on myside but i have no clue where to start to fix it
<derek> also did you get btami his assignment mail? if not i will do right now
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<jamest> i sent btami  the mail
<jamest> no i didn't get the bug
<jamest> i've checked all my mail accounts and got nothing
<jbailey> gnue-common_0.4.1.99-20021125_all.deb gnue-designer_0.4.1.99-20021125_all.deb gnue-forms-wxgtk_0.4.1.99-20021126_all.deb uploaded
<jbailey> These will require override changes (for the conversion for 'any' to 'all'), so it'll take up to a week to get into sid.
<derek> hmmm maybe they default to jcater
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<derek> it could be my problem has to do with my running gnue-forms over ssh (X)
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<derek> its ticket 190 if you want to look at it
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<jbailey> In designer, how to I may the grey field bigger?
<jamest> open the object navigator
<jamest> dbl-click on the form object to get to its properties
<jamest> adjust the height and width in there
<jamest> or
<jamest> exit designer and vi that puppy
<jamest> :)
<jbailey> A few things look like they might be easier to edit with vi. =)
<jbailey> I wonder how hard it would be to steel the XML navigator from sodipodi.
<jbailey> (trying to figure out which one is the form object)
<jamest> jbailey: cvs head is much much different than 0.4
<jamest> it's the top most object titled "form"
<jamest> IIRC
<jbailey> Oh, I see.  Those weren't multiple choice. =)
<jbailey> Gotit.
<jbailey> =)
<jbailey> Seems I was wrong.  They were all accepted - The new gnue will be in the pulse today.
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<jamest> jbailey: wow
<jamest> you're running those debs for what you're doing today right?
<jbailey> Yup.
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<jbailey> *lol*  From what my boss is saying, we may be using reports extensively too.   I wonder if I've oversold gnue? =)
Nick change: jbailey -> msg
Nick change: msg -> jbailey
<nickr> uh oh
<nickr> hehe
<jbailey> What units are the height and width in? 
<jamest> characters
<jbailey> Ah, okay. =)
Action: derek is away: I'm busy
<jamest> we're old skool
<jbailey> Do Boxes really not like having no caption?  It seems to put <unset> in when I take out the "I am a box"
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<jbailey> Oy.  I suspect it should be harder to click on multiple items in designer.
<jamest> the default behaviour is a bit odd that's for sure :)
<jbailey> Yeah, I keep having to try and figure out where various textboxes went. =)
<jamest> that's by design
<jbailey> =)
<jamest> it's a cater thing
<jbailey> 6 Debian bugs fixed with the new gnue upload.
<jamest> ?
<jbailey> Mostly packaging bugs.
<jbailey> Actually.  I think they were all packaging bugs.
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<jbailey> Hrmm.
<jbailey> I can see that forms put data into the database.
<jbailey> Now I can't figure out how to get that record back.
<ra3vat_> hit f8,f9
<jbailey> Ah, I get it.
<jbailey> ra3vat_: That's basically do a search for everything?
<ra3vat_> yes
<ra3vat_> just one of the ways to see your data
Action: jbailey is away: I'm busy
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<yma> Hi all, I am new to Python and GNUe, and I want to code, probably during weekends...
<nickr> huzzah
<nickr> fresh meat
<yma> I am downloading the hourly snapshot right now
Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:19:36)
<jbailey> yma: Do you otherwise know how to work CVS and all those types of tools?
<yma> I 've used CVS a bit, I can manage
<jbailey> Justit's probably best to use CVS instead of downloading the hourly snapshots.
<jcater> ooooooo
<yma> I am on dial-up, so it looked attractive the first time, later CVS would be the way to go
<jcater> yma: the main cvs head is being restructured this week
<jcater> so it doesn't work very well
<jcater> just be forewarned
<jbailey> jcater: Restructured?
<jbailey> Like downsized?
<jbailey> Many modules suddenly out of work.
<jcater> if you were on cvs, we could point you to the stable branches
<jbailey> The dole queues getting longer.
<jbailey> YOU BEAST!
<jcater> doh!
<yma> jcater: OK, it will take time to get up to speed on Python and GNUe
<jbailey> Do you guys have a roadmap somewhere that I can refer to when people give me wishlist bugs?
<yma> OK, will return after a look at the code
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<lupo> hi
<lupo> common/src/dbdrivers/dbf/dbf.py <- is it what i suspect?
<ra3vat_> static DBF (Dbase III+) driver
<ra3vat_> siesel committed it yesterday
<lupo> great
<lupo> especially for migration purposes
<lupo> think of the big number of offices that still use DOS/DBase applications
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<lupo> hi derek
<lupo> argh
<lupo> someone broke designer
<lupo> btw, i might get a contract to implement a simple CRM
<lupo> as free software
<lupo> anyone a clue with that?
<jbailey> lupo: If I have a DBIII converter in 0.4.1 I'd be using it right now. =)
<lupo> no 0.4.1, pitily
<lupo> real men run cvs head :)
<derek> cvs head is BUSTED
<derek> do NOT USE IT
<derek> you will be frustrated
<derek> use branch of 0.4.x if you want cvs
<lupo> what's busted?
<lupo> okay, nothing works here, but what is busted?
<derek> lupo: please look at gnue-sb
<lupo> :)
<lupo> what's up with gnue-sb?
<derek> and consider using/extending it for your crm stuff
<lupo> okay
<derek> there is already some crm stuff there
<lupo> great
<derek> btw: everything is busted in cvs head
<derek> the gfd format is changing
<lupo> yippie
<derek> so dont expect any resemblence of stableness
<derek> please use the branch :)
<derek> its more risky than an official release
<derek> but more usable than head :)
<lupo> what's the goal of the big restructuring?
Action: derek must run but would liek to discuss the crm stuff sometime
Action: derek is away: work
<lupo> see you
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<jbailey> How do I change pages in forms? =)
<ra3vat_> jbailey: PgUp, PgDown?
<ra3vat_> or tabbed
<jbailey> I don't see the second tab in forms for some reason.
<jbailey> All I have in there is a label though.
<ra3vat_> can you get there with PgDown?
<jbailey> No.
<ra3vat_> <form height="28" width="90" tabbed="top"> - is tabbed defined?
<jbailey> No.
<jbailey> Lemme change that,
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<jbailey> Hmm.  I changed in within designer and it didn't take it (There's no change in the gfd file)
<jbailey> There we go.
<jbailey> I forgot that you can't just change the drop box - You have to click off of it for it to take effect.
<jbailey> ra3vat_: Tx.
<ra3vat_> vim designs it quite nice 
<ra3vat_> jbailey: np
<jbailey> Woohoo!  I have a consistant way of hanging forms and designer on exit! =)
<jbailey> If you type a bad username/password combo into the mysql login box (so a failure to login), and then get it right the second time, it'll hang on exit.
<jbailey> But I don't see the failure if I type it wrong and then cancel the login request.
<jamest> sigh
<jbailey> ?
<jamest> who's idea was it to encourage people to use this stuff?
<jbailey> Derek's of course.
<jamest> all it gets us is bug reports like mr bailey's here.
<jamest> if you type it right the first time then all is ok?
<jbailey> Yup
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<jbailey> jamest: Think of it this way.  At least I'm *articulate* with my bug reports. =)
<jbailey> Wow.  They're doing 802.11b in parks in NYC.
<jbailey> Why did I move from there?
<nickr> they were when you lived there for that short time, too
<jbailey> Really?  And I missed it.  So sad.
<jbailey> Of course, I was worried about getting shot in the park outside my house so I never went there.
<nickr> heh. It wasn't THAT dangerous.
<jbailey> I dunno.  Fordham park is pretty scary.
<jbailey> The locals seemed to avoid it too.
<jbailey> Most of the other parks I met were fine, though. =)
<nickr> hehe
<nickr> NYC wireless is a cool project
<jamest> jbailey: how goes the forms?
<ra3vat_> jamest: triggers that described as PRE-FOCUS-IN in dev guide is actually PRE-FOCUSIN
<jamest> whoops
<ra3vat_> is it a restructuring thing?
<jamest> i think it's a developers are crack heads thing
<ra3vat_> :)
<ra3vat_> and how is right in a long term?
<jamest> PRE-FOCUSIN i believe
<jamest> as it matches the others
<jamest> in the source
<jbailey> jamest: Good - I've shown it to a couple of co-workers.
<jbailey> There's the odd little annoying bug, but no show stoppers.
<jbailey> Mostly crazy focus problems.
<jbailey> I also think I didn't compile enough of the modules.
<jbailey> Oh, maybe I did.
<jbailey> It's strange.  Everyonce in a while it'll go away and play with itself for a while.
<jamest> don't we all though
<jamest> j/k
<jbailey> Yeah.
<jbailey> It would be better if it wasn't while it was at work, though.
<jbailey> I'm taking a brief break from the forms to think about my other project due Friday.  I'm trying to figure out if graphviz handles all the layout automatically for me.
<jamest> jbailey: which platform you on?
<jbailey> i386-pc-linux-gnu Running Debian GNU/Linux Unstable.
<jbailey> Well.  i686-pc-linux-gnu, but anyhow.
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<ra3vat_> jamest: is there any limitation i can't import string module in trigger and use string.split()?
<jcater> nope
<ra3vat_> i'm getting
<ra3vat_> DB000:     exec code in globalns, localns
<ra3vat_> DB000:   File "<string>", line 6, in ?
<ra3vat_> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/string.py", line 117, in split
<ra3vat_> DB000:     return s.split(sep, maxsplit)
<ra3vat_> DB000: AttributeError: split
<jcater> are you sure that is a string you are splitting?
<jcater> intro.gfd uses string.split successfully
<ra3vat_> tested it with sttring and it worked
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<ajmitch> hi all
<ra3vat_> hello ajmitch
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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi
<ajmitch> what's up?
<psu> my PC
<psu> uptime 1:03
<psu> ;-)
<jcater> what's up?
Action: jcater wondered if living down under
<jcater> caused problems with understanding the concept of "up
<jcater> "
<ajmitch> hello jcarter
<jcater> grrr
<ajmitch> :)
<psu> low blow...
<jbailey> jcarter.  Wasn't he a US president?
<ajmitch> afaik, yes
<ra3vat_> typecast="date" would it work for time field?
<ra3vat_> jcater: i need a separate entry for time data, now when this field is getting data from db it displayed like full timestamp data
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<jcater> ra3vat_: we're still working on masks
<ra3vat_> what would be your suggestion? have a typecast="time" or just proper mask for "date"?
<jcater> no typecast="time"
<jcater> yes, mask
<ra3vat_> ok
<ra3vat_> where to look in the code?
<ra3vat_> seeing
<psu> ok
<psu> website updated w/ jason's latest docs
<ajmitch> great
<psu> I need to update the SUSe howto, but need to install latex first
<psu> and 
<psu> reinhard was sending me some new appserver whitepaper docs
<jbailey> SuSE howto:
<jbailey> Format, install Debian.
<psu> but 
<jbailey> =)
<psu> they have probably bounced
<psu> reinhard: if you're reading this, please re-send
<psu> I think I know what caused the bounce
<psu> time for bed
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<ajmitch> jbailey: isn't that the same as for every distro?
<jbailey> Off by one error there, my friend. =)
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<ajmitch> hi siesel
<siesel> hi ajmitch, hi all
<siesel> ajmitch: how are you? How is your CSV dbdriver?
<jbailey> CSV dbdriver?  That sounds sick and wrong. =)
<ajmitch> jbailey: it is!
Action: ajmitch hasn't done much on it lately, it slipped my mind :)
<jbailey> Too much hurd hacking?
<siesel> btw. does hurd finally support PROMISE IDE Adapters?
<jbailey> "Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..."
Action: ajmitch cannot quite read that :)
<jbailey> "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain...."
<jbailey> It's the best answer for siesel I could come up with.
<ajmitch> hehe
Action: siesel non hurd servuum est.
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<siesel> hi Daniel
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Action: jbailey is away: I'm busy
<Mr_You> hi all
<siesel> hi Mr_You
<chillywilly> hi Jan, Mr_You
<chillywilly> everyone
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<Mr_You> I was making $65k/year as unix admin, I'm moving out of this house in Feb, and I have no idea where I'm going.
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<Mr_You> uggh
<Mr_You> wrong channel
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Nick change: chillywilly -> troutmaster
Nick change: troutmaster -> chillywilly
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<siesel> hi jason
<jcater> hi
<siesel> I fear, that GFD is moving from simple XML to Openoffice like XML.
<jcater> ah
<jcater> I'm sure that's an unjustified fear
<siesel> please keep complexity in mind, when doing more changes to the gnue forms definition
<siesel> ok, that will make me sleep better
<jcater> I still hand edit mine too
<siesel> yes, but you are an AI ;)
<siesel> btw. will the trigger editor allow code inspection?
<jamest> siesel: ?
<siesel> I mean autocompletation, like you write mydts.  and it will show a list of choices
<siesel> like .deleteRecord, .nextRecord ...
<jamest> sure would be nice
<siesel> I'm not shure if scintilla supports that
<ajmitch> ooooh, trigger editor
Action: ajmitch wants
<jamest> but don't count on it :)
<siesel> :)
<jcater> yes
<jcater> that works
<jcater> Ctrl+Space
<jcater> pops up a list
Action: jcater isn't populating that list yet
<jcater> and it's not a priority for me
<jcater> as I can't stand editors that do that
<jcater> but the capability is there
<siesel> good. That's a reason more to let people moving away from Access/Visual Basic.
<siesel> Its like saying: "Except of being capable to do everything access can do, you can do things that makes sense."
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<jbailey> My wife's reading wired, and apparently there's an article on there that since Viagara came out, there are fewer people hunting endangered species for afrodisiacs.
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<jbailey> Anyone around who knows about making listboxes in designed that pull their values from other tables?
<jbailey> The designer wizard just confused me. =)
<derek> i do
<jbailey> derek: Ah, I figured you'd be putting your kids to bed. =)
<derek> i just did
<jbailey> I've reduced this to a very simple case -> I'd like a drop box list of my provinces.
Action: derek needs jcater or jamest to tell best way to install 'gnue applications' so multiple users can get at them
<jbailey> So I've created tblFoo with one field.
<jbailey> derek: I thought they told me to put it the gfd on a web opage.
<jbailey> called province_id.
<jbailey> I have another table called tblProvinces
<jbailey> With three fields:
<jbailey> province_id, province_name, province_abbr
<derek> ok
<jbailey> I have populated the tblPrpvinces table already, so I'll be able to tell when it's working. =)
<derek> you need to make a datasource for both tblFoo and tblProvinces
<derek> i.e. 2 separate datasources
<jbailey> It looks like the wizard did that for me.
<derek> then put an entry on your form
<derek> that belongs to tblFoo and is for field province_id
<derek> then go to property inspector for that entry
<jbailey> should I start from a new form?
<derek> and there will be three fields
<derek> er properties
<derek> that have fk_*
<derek> one is fk_datasource you should put the name of the datasource you made for tblProvinces
<derek> one is fk_key (iirc) in it you should put province_id
<derek> one is fk_description (iirc) in you shoud put province_name
<derek> viola
<derek> you have a foreign key combo box
<derek> you need not have a new form
<derek> you can do this with an existing form
<derek> i believe you can from schema editor drag the table to the form and it will autocreate the datasource for tblProvinces
<derek> then you just need to go to the province_id entry you originally had and put in those fk_* property values
<jbailey> should I start from a new form?
<jbailey> bah
<jbailey> sorry
<jbailey> wrong window.
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<derek> i wouldnt start from a new form
<derek> if you have one that you like and just want to make one field a fk lookup
<derek> jcater: what is best way to install gnue apps for multiusers same box?
Action: derek is mostly concerned about permissions
<jamest> run setup.py
<jcater> apps == .gfd files
<jcater> or apps = gnue-forms, et al?
<derek> apps == .gfd, .grd, .gpd
Action: derek is proudly getting ready to install first real clients gnue-sb
<derek> ;)
<jcater> all they need is read access
<jcater> so just install wherever
<jcater> /usr/local/forms/*
<jcater> is what I do at work
<derek> ok
<jcater> or is it /usr/local/gnue/forms
<jcater> either way
<jamest> what I do
<jamest> /usr/local/math/forms
<jamest> /usr/local/math/reports
<jamest> /usr/local/math/process
Action: derek wasnt sure what perms (figured read, but not sure on what group etc to belong too) as im not a unix admin :)
<derek> jamest: gnue-sb has a structure already (similar to what you just said)
<derek> sos it will go under /usr/local/gnue-sb/
<derek> and then there are modules
<derek>  /usr/local/gnue-sb/item/forms
<derek>  /usr/local/gnue-sb/item/reports
<derek> etc
<derek> and
<jbailey> jcater: /var/lib/gnue/FORM/FORM.GFD might be more appropriate.
<derek>  /usr/local/gnue-sb/contacts/reports
<derek>  /usr/local/gnue-sb/contacts/forms
<jbailey> If you felt like being lfs compliant. =)
<derek> jbailey: i would maybe agree with debian
<derek> this is red hat box (sigh)
<derek> so who knows
<jcater> jbailey: true
<jcater> but that all confuses me
<jcater> and I've learned I'm safe in /usr/local
<jbailey> =)
<jcater> different distro's I've been on
<derek> jcater: how hard is it for you to make gnue-sb part of the hourly tarballs?
<jcater> "interpret" that standard differently
<jcater> :)
<jcater> is it not?
<jbailey> Yeah.
<jcater> shouldn't be hard
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> My foo.gdf sent forms into lala land.
<jbailey> Is there a verbose mode where I can figure out what it's doing?
<jamest> --debug-level
<derek> forms 'techno herion' it'll send you to lala land
<jamest> or
<jbailey> That's what I need.  techno music.
<jbailey> derek: Thanks. =)
<jamest> --interactive-debugger if you feel like learning pythons debugger module
<jbailey> jamest: Not tonight, I think. =)
<jamest> jbailey: run a gfcvs --help
<jbailey> Hmm..  is --debug-level 3 usually enough?
<jamest> you'll get a lot of optoins
<jamest> debug levels are based upon a fairly rigid structure 
<jamest> involving phases of the moon
<jamest> and developer mood
<jamest> so just keep bumping up until 10
<jbailey> =)
<jamest> 5 usually gets me what I need
<jbailey> I found something that it wants to repeat infinity at debug 4
<jbailey> 5 rather:
<jbailey> DB005: [GDataObjects:511] Master record changed; Notifying Detail Objects
<jamest> you have multiple data sources?
<jamest> with master/detail setups?
<jbailey> I think so. =)
<jamest> any circular references?
<jamest> a is detail of b which is detail of c which is detail of a
<ajmitch> hmmmm
<jbailey> Nothing that complicated.
<ajmitch> that'd be fun :)
<jbailey> The gfd file is less than a page long.
<jamest> that'd be an infinate loop
<jbailey> But this is me learning, right? =)
<ajmitch> on whose screen?
<jbailey> ajmitch: a non-maximized X term with quite large fonts. =)
<ajmitch> right :)
<ajmitch> Eterm here seems to be at about 180x70 chars
<jbailey> Perhaps I'm getting "master" and "detail" backwards.
<jamest> master drives the detail
<jbailey> ajmitch: 24 lines. =)
<jamest> a record that changes in master forces all it's details to update to match the key given by the master
<jbailey> ajmitch: And 80 characters wide. =)
<jbailey> Okay, then I am getting it backwards.
Action: ajmitch tries to recall what Access calls it...
<jbailey> I keep thinking detail is "this is where the details are".  So if my data table has province_id 1, it would look in the detail table tblProvince for the details.
<ajmitch> think invoice & invoice items - the items are the details
<ajmitch> the detail part is probably what access calls a subform, if you've had the misfortune to us it :)
Action: ajmitch actually thinks some parts of access are quite useful
<derek> jbailey: you shouldnt have a 'relationship' master/detail
<derek> in what we just discussed
<derek> they are two separate datasources not bound in any way at the datasource level
<jbailey> derek: I've just taken that relationship out. =)
<derek> they are bound at the entry level
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<jbailey> May I paste the gfd here?  It's 19 lines long. =)
<ajmitch> hmm
<ajmitch> maybe
Action: ajmitch hears no objections from the peanut galleries
<jbailey> =)
<derek> you may
<jbailey> <form height="4" title="Province Sample">
<jbailey>   <options/>
<jbailey>   <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLFOO0" table="tblFoo"/>
<jbailey>   <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" table="tblProvince"/>
<jbailey>   <page name="Page_1">
<jbailey>     <block datasource="dtstblfoo0" name="blkTBLFOO0">
<jbailey>       <entry field="province_id" fk_description="province_name"
<jbailey>              fk_key="province_id" fk_source="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" max_length="11" name="inpProvinceId"
<jbailey>              style="dropdown" typecast="number" width="11" x="14" y="1"/>
<jbailey>     </block>
<jbailey>     <label name="lblProvinceId" text="Province Id:" width="12" x="1" y="1"/>
<jbailey>     <block datasource="dtstblprovince1" name="blkTBLPROVINCE1"/>
<jbailey>   </page>
<jbailey> </form>
<derek> ok remove <block datasource="dtstblprovince1" name="blkTBLPROVINCE1"/>
<derek> i would consider removing typecast="number"
<derek> as well
<derek> do those two things and try again
<derek> paste any 'errors' you get
<jbailey> I'm running at debug level 5 - so I'm not sure where I'd start pasting.
<ajmitch> errors that start with 'RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!'
<derek> last 5 lines
<jbailey> DB002: [UIdriver:159] Widget is [<C wxPanel instance at _8703570_wxPanel_p>]
<jbailey> DB005: [DBdriver:576] SELECT count(*) FROM tblProvince
<jbailey> DB007: [DBdriver:521] Implicit Fields: {'province_id': '', 'province_name': ''}
<jbailey> DB005: [DBdriver:556] SELECT province_id,province_name FROM tblProvince
<jbailey> DB005: [DBdriver:142] Field names set to ['province_id', 'province_name']
<jbailey> DB005: [DBdriver:146] ResultSet created
<jbailey> DB005: [GDataObjects:511] Master record changed; Notifying Detail Objects
<jbailey> (It's no different from debug 5 to debug 10)
<jbailey> The last line repeats infinitely.
<Mr_You> super drive and HD
<Mr_You> oops
<derek> there data in these tables?
<jbailey> tblProvince is populated with all 13 provinces/territories.
<derek> you removed <block datasource="dtstblprovince1" name="blkTBLPROVINCE1"/>
<jbailey> tblFoo is empty.
<jbailey> Yes, and I removed the other thing typecase="number" as well.
<derek> change
<derek> <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" table="tblProvince"/>
<derek> to
<derek> <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" table="tblProvince" prequery="Y"/>
<jbailey> It appears to be the same.
<derek> can you put that label inside the block
<derek> then repaste what your form looks like
Action: derek wonders if this is some mysql bug
<jbailey> <form height="4" title="Province Sample">
<jbailey>   <options/>
<jbailey>   <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLFOO0" table="tblFoo"/>
<jbailey>   <datasource database="network" name="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" table="tblProvince" prequery="Y"/>
<jbailey>   <page name="Page_1">
<jbailey>     <block datasource="dtstblfoo0" name="blkTBLFOO0">
<jbailey>       <entry field="province_id" fk_description="province_name"
<jbailey>              fk_key="province_id" fk_source="dtsTBLPROVINCE1" max_length="11" name="inpProvinceId"
<jbailey>              style="dropdown" width="11" x="14" y="1"/>
<jbailey>       <label name="lblProvinceId" text="Province Id:" width="12" x="1" y="1"/>
<jbailey>     </block>
<jbailey>   </page>
<jbailey> </form>
<derek> er: or a bug with our mysql implementation
<ajmitch> derek: mysql doesn't have bugs! ;)
<jbailey> I still see the same thing with the label inside the block.
<derek> can you paste the table defintions from mysql
<jbailey> For both tables?
<derek> yeah
<jbailey> CREATE TABLE tblFoo (
<jbailey>   province_id int(11) NOT NULL default '0',
<jbailey>   PRIMARY KEY  (province_id)
<jbailey> ) TYPE=MyISAM;
<jbailey>     
<jbailey> CREATE TABLE tblProvince (
<jbailey>   province_id int(11) NOT NULL auto_increment,
<jbailey>   province_name varchar(100) NOT NULL default '',
<jbailey>   province_abbr char(2) NOT NULL default '',
<jbailey>   PRIMARY KEY  (province_id)
<jbailey> ) TYPE=MyISAM;
<jbailey>     
<derek> jbailey: that form looks ok to me
<derek> i would try two other things maybe
<derek> make the datasource="" in the block same 'case' as the datasrouce name
<derek>  <block datasource="dtstblfoo0" name="blkTBLFOO0">
<derek> to
<derek>  <block datasource="dtsTBLFOO0" name="blkTBLFOO0">
Action: derek remebers at one time 'case' was problematic
<jamest> hang on
<derek> the other one if that doesnt work is to try to create a record in tblFoo 
<jbailey> derek: Neither of those seem to solve it.
<jamest> let me convert to pgsql
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<jcater> grrr
<jcater> I don't think the wxPython-users or wx-users lists like me
<jcater> as they never can answer my questions
<jamest> we still like you
<jbailey> jamest: I can re-install pgsql if you'd like.
<jamest> so get to work
<jcater> yes, boss
<jbailey> It shouldn't be too hard to convert between the two at this point.
<derek> jamest: i was going to do the same :)
<derek> as i think this is a mysql problem
<ajmitch> jcater: i imagine that just about any wx bug you come across, gnue is at the top of google results already?
<derek> not necessarily mysql but how we deal with mysql
<jcater> yeah :(
<derek> wx has bugs?
<derek> gasp
<derek> groan
Action: derek is in disbelief
<jamest> jbailey: ok
<jbailey> jamest: It's not obvious which thing you're okay'ing. =)
<jamest> sorry
<jamest> what would be valid data for these tables?
<jamest> hell
<jamest> i'll wing it
<jamest> :)
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (1, 'British Columbia', 'BC');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (2, 'Alberta', 'AB');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (3, 'Saskatchewan', 'SK');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (4, 'Manitoba', 'MB');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (5, 'Ontario', 'ON');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (6, 'Quebec', 'QC');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (7, 'Prince Edward Island', 'PE');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (8, 'Nova Scotia', 'NS');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (9, 'New Brunswick', 'NB');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (10, 'Newfoundland and Labrador', 'NL');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (11, 'Yukon', 'YK');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (12, 'Northwest Territories', 'NT');
<jbailey> INSERT INTO tblProvince VALUES (13, 'Nunavut', 'NU');
<jbailey>     
<jcater> jamest: it's a perverted mutation of city, state, zip
<jamest> oooo canadian
<ajmitch> NZ is one of the few places where zip/postcodes aren't used much (if at all :) )
<jbailey> jamest: You didn't know I was a Canadian? =)
<jamest> your form is ok
<jbailey> ajmitch: A postal code here identifies less than a dozen houses.
<jamest> your db driver is screwed
<jamest> :)
<jbailey> jamest: Joy. =)
<ajmitch> excellent!
<jamest> ok
<jbailey> So time to switch to pigsql? =)
<jamest> in mysql
<jamest> there is a section
<ajmitch> who was the last person to touch mysql?
<jamest> me
<jamest> i think
Action: ajmitch recalls doing some code for it, but jcater touched it :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: cvs annotate is your friend. =)
<jbailey> ajmitch: as is cvs status. =)
<ajmitch> yup
<ajmitch> i've used them with great finger-pointing glee before
<jamest> common/src/dbdrivers/mysql/DBdriver.py
<jamest> there is a functoin _loadNextRecord
<jamest> in there is the pain 
<jamest> i think
<jbailey> Like seriously, if this would be better of in postgres, I can still easily switch.
<jbailey> I had switched back to mysql when designer wasn't picking up fields right.
Action: ajmitch shudders
<jbailey> Then it turned out designer was screwed. =)
<jcater> cvs annotate?
<jamest> postgresql is used with forms in production daily
<jamest> it's the devil we know
<jamest> but
<jbailey> jcater: annotate gives you who touched each line last in a file, and in which version the line was last touched.
<derek> jamest: in postgres is there way to give privelege to a group
<derek> to an entire database?
<jbailey> jcater: Very handy for some Royal Ass Whooping.
<jamest> i'd love mysql support up to speed and having a mysql production gnue setup keeps us honest
<derek> or must you do it object by object
<jcater> oh, now that kicks ass
<jcater> mucho ass
<jcater> dude
<jcater> now I don't need lxr's cvs blame crap
<jamest> grant select on foo,bar,etc to group goats;
<jamest> is the only way I know
Action: ajmitch turns up the music!
<ajmitch> jcater: of course it doesn't help as much if you have a few people committing patches for others
<derek> ah i tried grant all on dbname to group goats;
<derek> and it said dbname no exist
<jbailey> jamest: Well - Your call.  I dont' mind leaving it on MySQL but I don't have the skill to produce better bug reports than this yet.
<jbailey> ajmitch: Whoever commits the patch takes repsonsibility. =)
Action: ajmitch wonders if he should try & track changes to HEAD
<ajmitch> how  badly broken is forms at the moment?
<jamest> um
<jamest> depends
<jamest> i think you can use it
<jbailey> jamest: But I also have until Friday to get this running in some form or another. =)
<jamest> designer is toast
<jamest> jbailey: postgresql
<ajmitch> jamest: will the gtk2 drive need big changes to be usable? :)
<jcater> ajmitch: I just committed changes to the gtk2
<ajmitch> excellent
<jbailey> jamest: Gotcha.  
Action: jbailey 's gears begin to creak into motion
<jcater> I don't expect it to take much
<jcater> of course, I don't have a working gtk2 install
<jcater> so take that however you want :)
<ajmitch> most changes in the core?
<jcater> ajmitch: yeah
<jamest> derek: where are you at now?
<ajmitch> jcater: want me to try & help you get gtk2 working? :)
<jcater> help me?
<jcater> nah
<jcater> I want you to take over
<jamest> just do it
<jamest> :)
<derek> home
<jcater> is where
<derek> postgres team tells me you must do priveleges one relation at a time
<jamest> the wife is
<jcater> :)
<derek> grrr
<jbailey> *sigh*
<jbailey> Too true.
<derek> other room
<jbailey> And I'm at work. =)
<ajmitch> jcater: i don't mind, whatever suits you :)
<jamest> ajmitch: we'd love patches
<jamest> as i don't any of us know what's needed to even install gtk2
<ajmitch> jamest: that's why i'm asking
<ajmitch> gtk2 is dead easy to setup & install
Action: derek notes patches is a girl
<jamest> ajmitch: on a woody system using only apt :)
<jamest> i'd love to see it though
<derek> ajmitch: if you would make a quick howto for unstable
<ajmitch> people use woody? ;)
<jbailey> apt-get install libgtk2? =)
<jbailey> err.
Action: jbailey hides.
<jbailey> People actually run woody on their desks?
<derek> i will actively play with gtk2 forms
<ajmitch> jbailey: apt-get install python-gtk2 :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: jamest and jcater assured me that it was broken in 0.4.1
<ajmitch> derek: see package that i mentioned to jbailey
<jbailey> ajmitch: And I think my plate is full of its quota of broken stuff right now.  Try me again in an hour. =)
<jamest> my "desk" at work is an ltsp terminal serving 30+ other people
<jamest> so yes, i like stable
<ajmitch> jbailey: broken in 0.4.1? i'd hope not!
<jamest> it's not feature complete
<jamest> last I knew
Action: ajmitch might now prepare to dive into the crack-laden world of HEAD
<ajmitch> jamest: it's not
<ajmitch> i have a couple of open bugs in dcl to do
<ajmitch> and another that needs added :)
<ajmitch> but i'd prefer to do changes to HEAD
<jamest> work in head
<jamest> please
<ajmitch> certainly
<jamest> just don't scream when everthing is toast
<ajmitch> i'll convert my play forms 
<ajmitch> no, ill scream & blame jcater
<ajmitch> that better? :)
<jamest> no
<jamest> blame derek
<ajmitch> ok
<jamest> we don't want to upset jcater
<jbailey> And derek's around more than chillywilly. =)
<ajmitch> well, i have the debs to use (hint hint) for real work
Action: ajmitch runs setup-cvs.py & overwrites his working setup
<jbailey> Oy.  phppgadmin is just enough different from phpmyadmin to be really confusing. =)
<derek> jamest: did you know there was online cookbook for postgres?
<jamest> no
<jcater> speaking of debs
<jcater> what will it take to get debs of reports?
<jcater> get off my arse and do it? 
<jcater> :)
<jbailey> Next week.
<jcater> cool
<jamest> oooo we use that line too
<jcater> that's good enough for me
<jbailey> This week I have to do this or I cost me not only my bonus but also my bosses. =)
<ajmitch> oooh
<jamest> no pressure
<jbailey> None. =)
<jbailey> I'm not too worried because failing everything else, I could cook this simple app up in 12 hours in PHP.  But that wouldn't be the right solution.
<ajmitch> yes, it just wouldn't be right
<derek> ###### start of grantall.sh #######
<derek> #!/bin/ash
<derek> SQL="SELECT relname FROM pg_class WHERE (relkind = 'r' OR relkind = 'S')
<derek> AND relname !~ '^pg_' ORDER BY relname"
<derek> OBJ=`psql -t -c "${SQL}" $1`
<derek> # OBJ=`echo ${OBJ} | sed 's/EOF//g'`
<derek> OBJ=`echo ${OBJ} | sed 's/ /, /g'`
<derek> # SQL="REVOKE ALL ON ${OBJ} FROM PUBLIC"
<derek> SQL="GRANT ALL ON ${OBJ} TO PUBLIC"
<derek> echo ${SQL}
<derek> psql -c "${SQL}" $1
<derek> ###### end of grantall.sh #######
<derek>       
<derek> solved my problem i think
<jbailey> jcater: The nice part is that I think with my upload this morning I sorted out the last of the big packaging bugs.  The downside is that it no longer ports cleanly to woody.
<jcater> derek: so if I run that script against my bookstore, it'll solve my problem?
<jcater> i.e., it'll start making money?
<jcater> jbailey: ah
<ajmitch> jbailey: well sarge'll be out soon anyway, right? ;)
<jbailey> Hey is varchar the same in pgsql as in mysql?
<jbailey> ajmitch: I think the plan is next spring/summer.
<jamest> yeah
<jbailey> ajmitch: It'll be new gcc, new glibc, new X, gnome2, and kde3.
<jamest> the ints are different
<jamest> int4, int8, int16 in postgresql IIRC
<jcater> jbailey: and gnue?
<jbailey> Okay.  I see that here.
<ajmitch> jbailey: ok
<jbailey> jcater: gnue will be in sarge in 10 days, I hope.
<derek> jcater: yeah it will increase bookstore revenues by 10 times what you make working on gnue
<derek> pretty cool eh
<jcater> cool
<jcater> and if I run against the wife?
Action: jcater won't go there
<jbailey> Run things not against 'the wife' for madness and chaos awaits.
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise.
<jcater> chilly!
<jcater> willy!
<jbailey> Heya Dan!
<ajmitch> chillywilly! my hero!
<jcater> I think it's his ghost
<jcater> the ghost of chilly's past
<jbailey> CaspeR!
<ajmitch> oooh
<jbailey> Casper the penguin!
<jcater> Gasper
<jcater> It's Gasper the gnurly gnome!
<chillywilly> uh?
Action: chillywilly is worried
<jbailey> Worry not, little penguin.
<derek> all i can say is if you use postgres regularly and you DONT know this --> http://techdocs.postgresql.org/ <-- site exists
<derek> you should
<derek> it has a lot of goodies
<jcater> yeah
<chillywilly> jbailey: pen-gnu-in ;)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: why am I your hero?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: that's pretty sad ;)
<jbailey> Simply partake not of the crack of gnue.
<chillywilly> but I like gnue crack
<ajmitch> i've been in #gnuenterprise too long
<jbailey> chillywilly: That sounds like a nasty genetic modification experiment.
<ajmitch> how could you not be my hero?
<jbailey> Well.  theoretically I have tblFoo and tblProvince defined now.
<chillywilly> um, because I suck
<ajmitch> everyone here knows of the famous chillywilly
<chillywilly> hah!
<ajmitch> jbailey: most excellent, good sir!
<chillywilly> infamous you mean?!?
<jbailey> provider = psycopg  ?
<chillywilly> I need tf inish reading HHGG
<chillywilly> er, to finish
<chillywilly> then go to bed early
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> this cannot be!
<jbailey> It's a lovely trilogy
<ajmitch> oooh dear
<ajmitch> gfcvs is taking a little bit too much RAM :)
<ajmitch> up to 160MB
<chillywilly> hey that's al my laptop has in it
<chillywilly> a/al/all/
<chillywilly> bah
<jbailey> The perfection of forms increases as it apporoaches MS Access in likeness? =)
<chillywilly> I need something to drink
<ajmitch> i killed it at 220MB
<chillywilly> jbailey: blasphemer!
<ajmitch> and the gtk2 driver is broken :)
<chillywilly> hmmm, crazymike is never online anymore
<chillywilly> and I am too lazy to use the telephone
<ajmitch> chillywilly: i was just commented earlier that access has some nice features
<chillywilly> why?
<chillywilly> I think I have an old Access manual somewhere
<ajmitch> because i chose to make such a comment
Action: ajmitch has an old access cd somewhere, i think
<jcater> ajmitch: what?!?!
<chillywilly> that I borrowed from someone and never returned
<jcater> 160Mb of ram?
<jcater> gfcvs is?
<ajmitch> jcater: 220, sorry
<ajmitch> with wx driver, after i logged in
<jbailey> ajmitch: You're not using mysql are you? =)
<ajmitch> jbailey: yes, i am
<chillywilly> it was for senior design and the summer after when I was helping them convert their Access db to postgres
<ajmitch> is that the sort of problem you're having, jbailey?
<chillywilly> them being MSOE's TRIO program
<jbailey> ajmitch: I haven't looked at ram usage.
<chillywilly> woops
<jbailey> ajmitch: Right now I'm trying to remember where to add users in postgresql. =)
<jcater> createuser
<chillywilly> rtfm! ;)
<chillywilly> ah!
<chillywilly> cats are fighting!
Action: chillywilly is scared now
<ajmitch> well the form didn't show up, it just chewed ram
<chillywilly> w0000
<jcater> ajmitch: what form is this?
<jbailey> jcater: Tx.
<jbailey> chillywilly: phpmyadmin has the user add feature.  I'm surprised phppgadmin doesn't.
<ajmitch> a small timesheet form i created, which was working with 0.4.x
<ajmitch> well, working up to a point :)
<chillywilly> jbailey: web interfaces are for weenies ;)
<jbailey> Well, I am the one who admitted that I was too lazy to use procmail when I could use evolution. =)
<chillywilly> but evolution can't do server side filtering
<chillywilly> which is what I like to use with my IMAP server
<chillywilly> then again I suppose you can use their vfolders
<chillywilly> blech
<jbailey> I don't use vfolders.  Thye're slow.
Action: chillywilly jams to WOPN
Action: ajmitch jams to Bach
<chillywilly> jcater: did you make a pdf with OO?
<chillywilly> er, for the "guide(s)"
<chillywilly> someone in #dotgnu wants to know how to make a pdf with OO
<jbailey> OO?
<chillywilly> open office
<ajmitch> OOo
<jbailey> Ah.
<ajmitch> openoffice.org, to be pedantic :)
<jamest> IIRC it's in the 643 release
<jamest> after 1.01
<jbailey> Woohoo.  Seems on Debian you have so "su postgres" before running createuser
<derek> jbailey: yip
<derek> chillywilly: save to postscript file
<derek> and ps2pdf
<chillywilly> ah
<derek> hmmm pyscopg no have good rpms
Action: derek really dislikes redhat
<jbailey>       ERROR:  Relation "tblfoo" does not exist
<jbailey> Hmm
<jbailey> It appears to exist.
<jamest> postgresql tables are case sensitive IIRC
<ajmitch> relation...
<derek> sigh
<derek> wtf
<derek> something on freshmeat is locking up galeon
<derek> EVERY time
<jbailey> jamest: according to the debug level, gnue is calling it tblFoo correctly.
<derek> you have rights to it?
<jbailey> And when I run the query in the SQL window on phppgadmin I get the same error.
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<jbailey> Found it.  It's a bug in gnue where is a table name contains a caps letter it needs to be quoted.
<jbailey> So:
<ajmitch> weird
<jbailey> SELECT count(*) FROM tblFoo WHERE ((1 = 0))
<ajmitch> hi SachaS
<jbailey> Won't work.
<jbailey> SELECT count(*) FROM "tblFoo" WHERE ((1 = 0))
<jbailey> does
<jbailey> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-interfaces/2001-11/msg00012.php
<jbailey> I should be careful or people will start comparing me to Derek with weird problems like this.
<ajmitch> please quickly write a note about that & send to dcl :)
<ajmitch> otherwise it'll be forgotten
<jbailey> Oy.  Now I have to learn DCL too? =)
<jbailey> Is there a generic submit address I can just send an email to and have it go in correctly?
<ajmitch> common-support@gnuenterprise.org
<ajmitch> that should work, i guess
<jamest> jbailey: hang on
<jbailey> Hey look, it works in pgsql. =)
<ajmitch> shouldn't be a hard bug to fix
<jbailey> I also don't mind renaming my tables for now to get it to work. =)
<ajmitch> might as well just quote all tables 
<jamest> is that sql std?
Action: ajmitch shrugs :)
<jamest> and even if so do all db's support :)
<SachaS> hi ajmitch
<ajmitch> jamest: it can't just be turned on for pgsql?
<jbailey> BTW, the hang on exit is reproducable with pgsql, too.
<jbailey> Lots of good things to submit.
<jbailey> Wow, this UI dropbox appears to be screwed.
<jamest> right now that's in our base db driver 
<jbailey> It will let me select Alberta, but not British Columbia.
<jamest> to migrate to one db is possible
<jamest> but i'd rather patch once if at all possible
<derek> i give up on redhat and getting a postgres driver installed
<chillywilly> cvs is b0rked right?
Action: chillywilly updayes anyway
<jamest> it works
<chillywilly> updates too
<chillywilly> ok
<jbailey> *lol*  It's getting killed by maximum lenght.= )
<jbailey> Okay, so tomorrow I'll get the rest of that over.  common-support@gnuenterprise.org for the two bugs?
<jbailey> I can also report the original MySQL one if you'd like, too.
<jamest> ok
<derek> is pypgsql
<derek> the postgresql dirver?
<jamest> pypgsql, postgresql, popy, psycopg
<derek> ok
<ajmitch> chillywilly: what are you wanting to do with cvs?
<derek> do you know if ANY of them have rpms
<derek> for python2.2
<jamest> our our options with postgresql = the one shipped with the db
<jamest> not a clue
<chillywilly> ajmitch: h4x0r it
<ajmitch> right...
<ajmitch> chillywilly: appserver?
<chillywilly> I was thinking of making OdlParser.py parse into something
<chillywilly> like an AST
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> the important thing: is it needed?
<derek> pypgsql has an rpm
<derek> yeah
<derek> fwiw EVERY rpm i have to install was created wrong
<derek> sigh
Action: derek really now feels sorry for redhat users
<derek> and the pain they suffer
<derek> up2date looked great, promising even
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I think so, I don't think I would g straight t generating python code as you also want to generate code for meta objects
<derek> until it told me to actually work it woudl require me to pay money
<ajmitch> chillywilly: but is that OdlParser.py functionality required for appserver?
<chillywilly> ajmitch: so you parse it into a tree and play with the tree
<ajmitch> does it fit with the structure as outlined by the others?
<chillywilly> only the "experimental" version
<derek> jamest / jcater did either of you have time to look into my locale bug report?
<chillywilly> they said they want to support other formats besides odl, so it doesn't "conflict"
<chillywilly> I don't think anyone will beotch slap me for doing it
<jcater> derek: we don't have locales 
<jcater> kinda makes it a bitch to test/debug
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<jbailey> Email's borked, I'll post them tommorow.
<jbailey> BTW, Is there a CVS branch for designer?
<jbailey> or..  reports rather?
<jcater> no
<jcater> reports isn't affected by all this madness
<jbailey> jcater: So you want me to package reports CVS Head?
<jcater> erm
Action: jcater was thinking the last release
<jcater> but i guess cvs head is stable
<jcater> for reports
<ajmitch> what is being hit by this? just forms & common?
<ajmitch> the db drivers are being left as-is?
<jamest> forms,common,designer
<ajmitch> ok, what in common are you attacking?
<jcater> mainly forms,designer
<jcater> only minor, non-breakage things in common
<jcater> non-breakage == backwards compat
<chillywilly> guess what I got?
<chillywilly> pizza!
<chillywilly> :)
<jbailey> herpes?
<jbailey> Hey, even better!
<derek> [derekn@gozen derekn]$ gnue-forms /usr/local/gnue-sb/item/forms/lu_item_status_maint.gfd 
<derek> The font "-*-helvetica-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1,
<derek>                   -*-arial-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-1,
<derek> 		  -*-helvetica-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15,
<derek> 		  -*-arial-medium-r-normal--12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-15,*-r-*" does not support all the required character sets for the current locale "en_US.iso885915"
<derek>   (Missing character set "ISO8859-15")
[23:05] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<derek> if anyone has ANY insight here let me know
<chillywilly> your font is lame?
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> derek: haha, I have pizza and you don't ;)
<chillywilly> nanner nanner nanner
Action: derek notes, right now isnt a fun time to tease a pizza addict
Action: ajmitch throttles chillywilly
Action: chillywilly thinks *anytime* is a good time to tease a pizza addict
<Remosi> Mmm
<Remosi> Pizza
<ajmitch> ello Remosi
<Remosi> 'ello aj :)
<jbailey> derek: Why would you be using -15.
<jbailey> You taking up Chinese?
<jcater> derek: why is that?
Action: jcater didn't realize the bug was from you
<jcater> because of the -15
<jbailey> Anyhow - I need to home and to bed.  Thanks for your help, everyone!
<chillywilly> bye, g'night
<derek> jbailey: cause thats what the server is using
Action: derek didnt configure the damn machine i am just forced to make gnue run on it
<ajmitch> night jbailey
jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting").
<chillywilly> night
chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org"
<derek> where are the feature maps?
bubber (~bubber@adsl-20-73-141.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #gnuenterprise.
<bubber> Derek, you online?
<jamest> derek :cat /dev/random
<derek> yeah im here
<jamest> outsite/feaiure-plasn
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> you get idea
<derek> jamest: i thought they were linked to the website
Action: derek runs kansas babelfish on that
<bubber> You need anything for the server? 
<derek> gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/
<derek> bubber: i think i fought out the last of it
<derek> is there something like a free 'up2date'
<derek> or such that makes installing packages less painful?
<bubber> I can make up2date work on that machine
Action: derek hopes there wont be much more to install
<derek> the one that was killing me was  python postgres driver
<derek> none of them had rpm's and none of them would compile w/o wanting a ton of -devel packages
<derek> finally i found one that had rpms
<bubber> So is it working now?
<derek> yip
<bubber> okie dokie
<derek> forgot redhat doesnt configure to use tcp/ip out of box
<bubber> anything else you need?
<derek> if you want to run a test or two it would be great
<bubber> huh? tcpip not configured?
<derek> let me see if i can find you a technical doc on it
<jcater> you mean redhat doesn't configure postgres to use tcp/ip out of box
<ajmitch> does debian?
<jcater> don't think so
Action: ajmitch recalls having to edit pg_hbs.conf to get ti to do so
<derek> debian used to not do so
<derek> but i think it does now
<derek> or debhelper asks you
Action: jcater is away: errands
Action: derek wonders what the hell is open at 11:31 outside memphis?
<derek> certainly not any fastfood restaurants... unless 'waffle house' counts
--- Wed Nov 27 2002