taco bell wendys jamest: im not sure they have taco bell and likely its not open past 10 wendys is open till 24:00 there iirc but i think jason said there wasnt one super close our taco bells are open verylate of course the univ helps :) Action: derek is reminded of old dunkin donuts commercials 'time to make the donuts' maybe he is 'making the donuts' i think our burger king's are too jamest: all our fast food places are open 24hr or until 1am yeah, well, they have to be but the south is well different only satan would be out past 22:00 so why serve fast food that late ;) leave at 6pm to get a bite and with traffic the way it is show up an taco bell at 11:45 jamest: roflmao heh rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" l8r jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-128.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left irc: "[x]chat" bubber (~bubber@adsl-20-73-141.asm.bellsouth.net) left irc: Action: jcater is away: Um, I'm not here Action: jcater is back (gone 00:00:02) actually Wendy's and Taco Bell are open til 1:00 here and waffle house lots of waffle houses so what was the 'errand'? food run? ;) lol nah hmm no one responded to my 0.5.0 email Action: jcater isn't sure if that's good or bad :) Action: ajmitch looks the xml changes email? yeah Action: ajmitch doesn't know enough to have an informed opinion on the matter I should sleep jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "nite" reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. time to make the donuts nickr! hehe hey btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning morgans good morning all Action: derek is away: bed SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-63.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) johannes (~johannes@M693P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. ra3vat_: you here? btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: gav_alex (~gav@formika.chereda.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gav_alex (~gav@formika.chereda.net) left irc: Client Quit gav_alex (~gav@formika.chereda.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. gav_alex (~gav@formika.chereda.net) left irc: "Вышел из XChat" Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-207.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-35.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-35.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: Client Quit Remosi (dahoose@port-219-88-246-86.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-35.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jamest jamest: does actually works in reports? um don't think i've used it lemme check i use it lemme test it to see if it works this will take a bit :( hmmmmm it does not seem to work mine too thanks SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-158.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: rm-away -> reinhard jan (jan@zhonghua.sinologie.uni-bonn.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all has anyone tested samba 3.0-alpha20? nope it just came out yesterday its working great..... except ... printing :( well, what can you expect from an alpha.....not all pre-release code can be shining examples of perfection like gnue pre-releases :) :) dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jan (jan@zhonghua.sinologie.uni-bonn.de) left irc: jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Someone here running sid willing to test the quick gnue-reports deb that I made? =) i can later today Action: derek is back (gone 07:30:20) jbailey: Sure mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-35.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) It should be at people.debian.org/~jbailey/dists/gnue/sid/binary-i386/gnue-reports_0.1.0.99-20021126_all.deb sup mdean Or just add "deb http://people.debian.org/~jbailey gnue sid" to your sources.list But be warned that I put experimental debs in there from time to time.= ) The problem is that I don't know reports at all, so I don't know how to tell if I got this package right. hey derek jbailey: Does it depend on any other packages that are not in sid? dsmith: It shouldn't. Did I screw that up? =) Action: derek is away: work jbailey: cool it works? StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all which is the semantics of 'between' conditions tag? hw should I use it? is it like: which means: a between b and c? or b between a and c? jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi jcater can you help me with 'between'? jbailey: Well, it installed ok. Ah, I checked that. But I don't know how to use reports - Can you do a simple report? jbailey: I'll have to get to that. I'm still new with gnue stuff. Don't wait for me. Get someone else to test it too. dsmith: Okay, thanks. Action: jbailey pokes ajmitch ajmitch: Wake up. =) Blech - I'm just finishing the convert from MySQL to Postgresql - Can someone remind me when the pg equalivalent of a longblob is? Sweet. I'm now back to where I was yesterday at 3pm, but with a working province drop down. =) jbailey: I think bytea is a blob but I don't use them Cool, thanks. I'm storing router configs and also those jpgs I was telling you about. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.7 -- Are we there yet?" reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) btami (~btami@3e70d739.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all VERY COOL. =) I just told gnuef to pull the gfd from a web server. =) jamest: i have problems with checkboxes again :( forms wants to store they as 0/1, but i have char(1) in my table is this the expected ? btami: i'm here another problem is in GFDisplayHandler.py in def generateRefreshEvent(self): btami: there are settings in gnue.conf about value for checkboxes they doesn't works for me btami i know jcater is expecting them to use Y or N i did not use them myself so i think it will be supported Is there a good document somewhere on setting forms up on win32? jbailey: double click on setup.exe :) but forms always converts the checkbox walues to 0/1 ra3vat_: Will that handle creating the odbc or whatever connection to postgres and such? ra3vat_: Sorry for the stupid questions - It's been so long since I've had to do much on win32. few drivers included i'm using one for postgres Sweet. =) Thanks. sorry, but i have to paste some code here: def generateRefreshEvent(self): # TODO: this should probably actually happen in UIwxpython! # # TODO: I think this is what btami was going for but the patch commited was # TODO: invalid python so I'm just putting the old line back with what I think # TODO: would be the corrected patch line commented out. # if (self.handleCR and type(self.display)=='str'): if self.handleCR: self.dispatchEvent(events.Event('upd huh, it's not readable :( the essence is: on win32 self.handleCR is set and self.display=1 so it fails on string.replace, because it is int another problem, if i apply that patch it not fails, but saves 0/1 into the database not F/T ? reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. sorry, i was wrong, it fails on cursor=self.cursor + len(string.split(self.display[:self.cursor+1],'\n'))-1, because self.display IS int ra3vat_: what are the stored values in your table (on checkbox field)? on the phone jcater/jamest ? Ah, I just discovered that gnue-forms on win32 does like it when you end task it. It won't load at all now. =) *sigh* I think it's food time. Action: jbailey is away: lunch some say food? s/some/someone btami (~btami@3e70d739.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r" psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-38.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaA Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:40:38) Nick change: SachaA -> SachaS_ SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-158.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS Action: psu is away: church meeting... ? Oh yeah, it's evening there. What's the best way to setup a link to the windows forms client such that it pulls the gfd off of a web server. I'm starting forms from my GNU/Linux box as `gnue-forms http://FOO/networkdb.gfd' - Is it just the same on w32? yes Tx. morning Heya andrew. ajmitch: Would you mind testing my reports deb? I don't know how to work reports. neither do i! :) Bah! That doesn't help. =) i know :) reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "For each complex problem, there is a simple, understandable, obvious, and wrong solution" dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." Weird. On the win32 interface, The content of the drop box doesn't change until after I click something else. It also doesn't seem to want to display the whole form. with wxpython ? ajmitch: I don't know how to tell. I just used the release .exe installers from www.gnue.org ok, that's the bootiful wxpython nobody has been perverse enough to code a native win32 UI driver How hard are the UI drivers? Do you just have to define a canvas and widget placements? take a look it's not too hard at all really I'll look next week. =) I'm willing to cope with ui quirks this week. =) your job riding on it? ;) No, my year end bonus. =) heh don't want to lose that I try not to bank my job on other peopl'es software. =) you don't use windows there? ;) Not on my desk. =) excellent Action: ajmitch must run away to work now, bbl siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-181.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi siesel, bye siesel Action: ajmitch runs off hi ajmitch, bye ajmitch :) hi all hey ajmitch. you still up :) ajmitch: its 04.23am here. what time is it in new zealand? SachaS: still up? he just went to work ah yeah i see. must be about Г+3|4|5 hours to Perth then anyone using simpleQuery(dictionary) in triggers? I used it a while ago. what 's up with it? i need to initialize query, put mask and process and perform it btami (~btami@3e70d72f.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi btami ra3vat_: what do you mean with 'put mask'? hi siesel siesel: query mask siesel: have you read the log? about checkbox broblems ra3vat_: IMHO if you use simpleQuery you don't have to set query mask etc. ra3vat_: you pass the query mask as a dictionary to simple query, the query gets processed... then the requested resultset will be returned by the simpleQuery call, and .. siesel: is it possible to get query like ... where name like ..? (the thing I'm no so shure about) the values in the page gets updated, because every block has a "new recordset listerner" yes. then how dictionary should be defined? f.e. a table with fields name, X, Y...: you should call: simpleQuery({'name':'%gnue'}) {fieldname:value,fieldname:value,...} siesel: thanks, trying Is there any way to bump down the font size by a couple? there is a fontsize or something like that parameter in the gnue.conf file btami: I've read the log, but I'm a bit behind the recent changes siesel: yes, but I have to run gnue-forms --configuration-options jamest: Thanks. siesel: sorry, wrong person :) jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. siesel: this problem is wery old and exist in branch and head too btami: which example are you using? any gfd you want, which has a checkbox btami: yes, its quite strange, It writes a '1' or None into the database. I will look at it later. Action: siesel is away: is busy. btami (~btami@3e70d72f.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r" jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-128.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left irc: "[x]chat" Where is gnue.conf on windows machines? =) c:\program files\gnue\etc iirc um, from exe install? or source if you used the .exe's exe install. cool! source is python2?/etc c:\python2?\etc Okay - If I shrink my font size on Windows, the scrolling bug is less obvious. But forms on win32 just doesn't seem to think the form is as long as it is. i hope this isn't from my adding scrollbars to the main window sigh larsu (~rfox@dhcp024-210-203-244.woh.rr.com) got netsplit. Mr_You (~car@gso167-138-145.triad.rr.com) got netsplit. paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) got netsplit. gnuebot (~eggdrop@65.101.4.211) got netsplit. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port17.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) got netsplit. gnuebot (~eggdrop@65.101.4.211) returned to #gnuenterprise. larsu (~rfox@dhcp024-210-203-244.woh.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (~car@gso167-138-145.triad.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) returned to #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port17.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o gnuebot' by vinge.freenode.net drochaid (~drochaid@pc2-kirk1-3-cust16.renf.cable.ntl.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" gnue reports uploaded. memmett (~user@sputnik.emmett.ca) joined #gnuenterprise. has fk_* changed recently? gfcvs is croaking: DB000: gnue.common.GParser.MarkupError: Error processing tag [I do not recognize the "fk_description" attribute 5 memmett: you running cvs head? yes, from the 25th (i'm interested in the nstti progress) you using the new 0.5.x gfd format? bbl revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)" no. (i'm text only, so i can't run designer) i guess that's my problem. cvs head is way different gfd format ok so i imagine that's the issue there is a converter in forms/utils ahh, ok, thanks or we have branches of the 0.4.x stuff that has most the curses updates are the docs in forms/docs up-to-date? hmmm not to the new format ok, thanks. i'll try a branch, and then perhaps the converter. Action: jbailey is away: I'm busy sweet! its workin (forms-0-4-1-branch). memmett (~user@sputnik.emmett.ca) left #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) siesel (jan@xdsl-195-14-222-181.netcologne.de) left irc: "night" chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone home? no what do youse guys think of this http://evolvedoo.sourceforge.net/abstract/index.html I think there's some intersting tidbits there im where is home? umm, here in #gnuenterprise is your home derek ;) chillywilly: My biggest problem with the paper is that it's an opinion piece. Sadly, following people's opinions is generally what got us the mess we have now. =( Action: derek is back (gone 10:38:26) well I think what he is saying supports a vfs and/or Hurd translator concept It's part of what's amazing about gnome2 - They actually did the studies and hired the experts to figure out the usability stuff. hey jcater you still here? Action: derek is curious when your oracle install will be converted to mysql depends according to mysql lead developer well it's cold here in TN its ready but hell hasn't quite frozen over here is the one that just floored me lol it's cold here too ;) but the devil is not likely to get frost bite we'll see what happens when January rolls around Hi Monty, I like your product. It works great. My question is what feature(s), if any, is missing from MySQL that is in the proprietary Oracle? What missing feature (if any) could stop somebody from migrating to MySQL from Oracle? This depends on lot of how your application is written. My belief is that MySQL's current functionally is good enough to make it possible to move a substantial portion of all new database applications to MySQL without any major difficulties. while that was funny here is the kicker um sequences triggers just a few basics :) how the hell can a db NOT have seqences? this was funny Apart from the above features the most important aspect is to add all the other missing ANSI SQL 99 features without making MySQL slower. chillywilly: easy it's not a db derek: was this from someone responding to him? that's too funny hell crap ANSI SQL 92 compliance would be a great improvement i cant find the REALLY funny quote it basically says no one uses foreign keys or views this guy I know in our LUG does all his development with perla nd mysql at least that would get them to Oracle 6 level he runs his own business so that isnt a stumbling block to getting rid of your non free database writes bidness software chillywilly: thats probably majoritry s/ry/y ok jcater go pee as when i paste this you might pee yourself when you start to laugh well he was telling me how his setup was letting him do hot swapping and some crazt stuff and his dbs were mad fast ================ from MySQL that is in the proprietary Oracle? What missing feature (if any) could stop somebody from migrating to MySQL from Oracle? This depends on lot of how your application is written. My belief is that MySQL's current functionally is good enough to make it possible to move a substantial portion of all new database applications to MySQL without any major difficulties. The major difficulties come with old legacy applications that use either a lot of Oracle specific features or some of the ANSI SQL features that MySQL is still missing. The biggest stumbling blocks are sub selects and stored procedures. Some applications (but much fewer) are also very dependent on views and foreign keys. mysql doesn't have foreign keys? the first line i pasted was a question to him, the last 3 lines part of his response chillywilly: sounds neat, but I don't see what mysql and perl have to do with hotswapping (yet) only those dumb poorly written legacy applications use that ANSI sql crap you know sub selects and stored procs... Mr_You: I think he likes it for the speed the really badly written crap uses foreign keys and views chillywilly: mysql is a super fast (filesystem) Mr_You: I remember him talking about how postgres unnecessarily locks things and slows stuff down as long as you developer wasnt dumb enough to use the 'features' of the database, converting is a breeze ;) chillywilly: anyone who discusses postgres I ask if they have actually tried v7 and most recently v7.2 mysql is fine for serving up web pages super fast compared to v6 Action: derek wonders why when people say "but mysql is supporting that soon, or will support it" people in the rdbms world kind of snicker but anything above that is downright sick as its the 'mentality' of whats important that kills me Mr_You: My issue with postgres has never been speed, but the fact that I get lost setting it up. basically they openly admit, speed above all else speed is more important that data integrity, end of story v6 was really slow compared to MySQL which is fine for the application space they have currently targeted anyhow jcater: if you want a good laugh but v7 is up on MySQL, its just certain types of access where there is a speed difference, now. http://codewalkers.com/interviews/Monty_Widenius.html at one point MySQL team was working on a MySQL file system.. (which is what mysql is mainly used for).. Action: derek notes mysql isnt a piece of crap its a rather nice database, just not one for real 'transactional' type of applications not sure what the status is of that in that interview they discussed OLAP functionality i think mysql might be good at that as that is 'read only' type of stuff that needs to be fast read only or enhanced log file postgres is up on mysql in that regard of course, I'm still hugely hesitant to convert from oracle to postgres postgres is probably not oracle qality yet imho jcater: honestly oracle is pretty good stuff its just not free (beer or libre) well, unfortunately there is no company with postgres employees that you can pay for support for.. if you want it sap-db would feel most comfy if i were making the move Mr_You: I think there is oracle has so many "features" its crazy greatbridge is no more mainly because their goal #1 is to match oracle in functionality (and compatiability) Mr_You: red hat isnt a company? are they? :-P sap-db even makes me nervous last i checked they repackage postgres and offer support for it but not nearly as much I hadn't realize they offer postgres support.. they repackage postgres under another name jcater: why worry when you can run things in parallel ;) and trying to do what greatbridge failed yeah I wasn't sure what happened with that since greatbridge went bye bye Action: derek cant recall what they call it chillywilly: rofl redhat database or something silly iirc that's a good one ;P I guess redhat offers support for RedHat DB and not postgresql :-P hehe hahaha it is the creative name redhat database :) Mr_You: true dat but if you were looking for a 'commerical' postgres you would just use redhat database yeah http://www.redhat.com/software/database/ it comes down to licensing too. databases sometimes you only have one or two machines.. but I guess they license per seat.. so nm jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). anyone had grilled turkey? mmmmm sounds good if its not too dry anyone had grilled donuts? mmmmm sounds good if its not too dry Action: derek rekants that before brandy is pulling jcater's butt back into the house before throwing a dozen krispy kremes on the grill rofl like we have a dozen lying around sheesh rofl good point mmm grilled donuts. mmmm donuts and ranch Action: derek reminds jcater kk isnt open tomorrow better get tomorrows supply tonight no but our bakery is next door :) oh yeah thats right if forgot you now have sallys bakery of sin next door hrrrm, my buddy is saying using stored procs is moronic ah and how many enterprise-class databases does he admin? LOTS, afaik and how much historical data does he fsck with? I dunno that's why I use them 'cause when we migrate part of our application to a new schema come argue with him in irc.havoc.org #havoc ;) stored procs save my as s this will be fun :) Action: jcater is too busy arguing with designer at the momenyt unfortunately, it's winning he's saying he's such a good app dersigner he doesn't need stored procs or transactions roflmao it's easy to design a NEW app without stored procs but doing it without transactions spam: " Are you snoring yourself to death?" "I was in tears " let me interject relying on stored procs is a bad thing (long term) but inhouse its necessary for things the reason they are 'bad' is only cause they tie you to a db other than that they save your ass yah havoc (~havoc@mke-24-209-160-18.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ello havoc hi sorry ppl type in spurts here ;) heh tis ok how's the "Report" stuff coming in GnuE? ask jcater ;) as that's what most lusers are demanding from OSS it's not at this time too bad so let the fun begin! what fun? mysql vs postgres! :P is this a mysql expert? chillywilly: no, I'll asnswer questions, but I refuse to argue, or attempt to sway opinion jcater: no, "database" expert ;) dude, how in the world do you do sequences in mysql, besides autoincrement Action: havoc is so modest :) havoc: shea right jcater: what more do you need? ok thanks chillywilly: heh, can't you recognise sarcasm? :) I can recognize it I take it that's the answer? 'cause that's all I can find on google wrt mysql dunno about this recognise thing jcater: I don't consider mysql a "database", I use it purely as a "datastore", as that's all I need hmmm jcater: I don't think mysql can really be compared to other dbms's my hard disk is a datastore too ;) havoc: that's what I say Action: jcater was seriously asking about sequences though as I've founds references in google about using sequences instead of autoincremenet in mysql but no where does anyone elaborate jcater: I always use data access abstraction layers in all my apps, and prefer to have all app logic in the app um, ok jcater: so I don't actually need a database just a data store but then I write all totally custom stuff that just needs to be *fast* jcater: mysql doesn't support ANSI-SQL-93 "sequences" hrm jcater: however you can fake them that's what I was afraid of Action: jcater knows the select max(..) + 1 trick jcater: with UPDATE SET= statements hmmm well, with INSERTs too jcater: but as I said, I like as little logic in the data store as possible that's fine Action: jcater was asking because of a project I have jcater: my current proj supports 5000+ simutaneous users on a single mysql db havoc: so you do like a 2-tier approach with ui + middleware? chillywilly: "abstraction " Action: havoc notes he actually TA'd soft eng. and adv. db design classes so I'm very anal about this stuff to me the dbms is irrelevant db abstraction? or what? so I dont' really care if it's mysql or pgsql or oracle or db2 my app will work w/ all sab-db? chillywilly: app specific data access layer chillywilly: I code it myself we have a db abstraction layer not the same thing I suppose ;) sometimes I use 2 layers depending on size of app chillywilly: I imagine it is the same thing seems he pretty much is saying the same thing we've been saying all along jcater: true no need for an appserver ;) but I never "rely" on stored procs, or anything other than storage and retrieval, so any db will work well, neither would I jcater: I concentrate on the concept of "sigularity" singularity for the data store it should be mirrored, but never "load balanced" as that introduces sync and latency issues but then I'm not trying to produce a general purpose framework like you are you actually have the more difficult task yes we do :) I generally try not to get invloved in the OSS "religious wars" I do what needs to be done nothing more, nothing less so mysql vs. pgsql means nothing to me for GnuE I'd definitely use pgsql they are both Free because of proj reqs. well, yeah MySQL vs PgSQL comes down to wanting a file system or a database IMO.. oops ;-) the problem we have is ppl without a clue of database theory come in and insist on running this type of transactional software against a mysql database Mr_You: basically *I* just need a *fast* filesys :) so we are trying to accomodate them :( havoc: mysql is great for that. ;-) I wonder when they are finally going to come out with their REAL mySQL file system.. jcater: I understand and agree with disclaimers of course :) Mr_You: if mysql ever "imposes" crap like stored procs, I will end up writing my own "datastore" and cease using mysql jcater: you have to cater to the majority jcater: that's the reality of econimics no pun intended? ;) heh "cater" to the majority I think we can use that! ;) Action: jcater won't get into economics of free software chillywilly: I wanted at one point to start a catering business with my brother then we'd call it "Two Caters Catering" cool ;) heheh jcater: I try to "Use the right tool for the job" regardless of whether it's free [beer|speach] or not jcater: basically I consider myself a very objective party treating others as "objects" is easy ;) jcater: most of the time it's OSS stuff, and most of the OSS stuff I use is GNU erm, anyway Action: jcater has a long history of being bitten by proprietary stuff most notably Oracle so I have a different take on things but to each his own jcater: but sometimes comercial and/or proprietary is best, and I don't consider it a "compromise" jcater: oracle is jsut bad period Oracle is just one example in every way, DB2 offers better value over oracle and mssql like I say, to each his own jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jeff! dan! krispie! kream! So I've discovered that dbf2pg sucks. =) But db2mysql works. So now I'm writing a php script to move the data from mysql to pgsql. =) you should just redo the schema in gsd format ;) be a rebel! hrrrm, wouldn't this be a feature of our so called "intergrator" ?!? chillywilly: yeah if it worked :) :-0 hey, gotta go to bar (couple blocaks away) to meet someone, but I'll be back in an hour ot two I give jan a few days ;) damn it's cold down here cya havoc chillywilly: Well. I seem to be learning obscure things about all sorts of database stuff. =) good :) Who knows. Maybe I'll get bored in December and write the win32 interface just to round off the useless knowledge. I need to start playing with dbs again it been too long since I have written a db app I should convert this one app.... yeam right I have been saying that for months ;) I really need to fnish cleaning my home dir it's a frelling mess I think I am going to setup my home dir to be my desktop and maybe that will help me keep my files organized ;) Sweet. Looks like it went over. Good. I can spend Friday morning finishing the conversion tool. =) I'm so glad that I get to be *very* drunk Saturday night. d you know if the fixed debs of bonobo stuff is 1.0.3-3? Oh. The bonobo-activation? I think that is what the apt bot in #debian told me ;) Whatever is current in sid. yea I think it's 1:1.0.3-3 yea ok hey can you use the network:// trick in nautilus in debian sid and see your nfs mounts? Dunno - I can't really check right now, sorry gnome 2.1 is supposed to be able to do that, afaik I'm now trying to figure out how to work SNMP in php. =) wooo ;) oh no hehe apt has to get 203MB jcater: here is what adodb (the preferred php db abstraction does) When you create records, you need to generate unique id's for each record. There are two common techniques: (1) auto-incrementing columns and (2) sequences. Auto-incrementing columns are supported by MySQL, Sybase and Microsoft Access and SQL Server. However most other databases do not support this feature. So for portability, you have little choice but to use sequences. Sequences are special functions that return a unique incrementing number every time you call it, suitable to be used as database keys. In ADOdb, we use the GenID( ) function. It has takes a parameter, the sequence nam rent tables can have different sequences. $id = $connection->GenID('sequence_name'); $connection->Execute("insert into table (id, firstname, lastname) values ($id, $firstname, $lastname)"); For databases that do not support sequences natively, ADOdb emulates sequences by creating a table for every sequence. :( but I guess my question is answered iow, it's gonna be a biotch :) Action: derek THOUGHT innodb might support them but i am not finding it and of course if mysql even supported database-level functions I could emulate sequences with a function but no :) you know you love it ;) does mysql support row locking? heh yes good AFAIK select ... for update; ? do you know? not exactly. well, shit that can't work no it does not that's transational innodb does iirc basic mysql doesnt, innodb tables do oh wait, nm wtf is innodb? as the table-as-sequence trick won't work no not row unless the row can be locked um slow mysql you see to keep 'fast' they make real features part of innodb and the only way you can use those features if your create script makes the table innodb table which is slower than postgres and friends but you can define as non innodb so its fast w/ no features really? actually.. I shouldn't comment on mysql functionality as I haven't used it in a while ;-) its more complex than that really but thats how i view it wow? who would've though!?! as like Mr_You i avoid it thought even so am not that up to speed This function is currently not documented; only the argument list is available. Ah, the beauty of PHP. hey if the appserver just prints "hello world" we can claim it to be the fastest one of all known Free app servers heh jcater: they appear in innodb to have UDF User Defined Functions hrm and it looks like you can maybe make a 'sequence' from that I guess I need: schema/parsers/mysql.py and schema/parsers/innodb.py :) where that be from? hell would be my guess well i wouldnt be opposed to saying we support MySQL (innodb only) nm wopn is on the air fellas as gnue w/ table level locking is near useless imho i.e. gnue type of applicationss will die with table level locks first time people start runnign reports Action: derek knows i wrote a major application with mysql for warehouse management we now use a mirrored 'report' server back in your wild, younger days before you had a clue? :) Action: jcater ducks yes first foray into 'open source' software when i found out i had to pay for the windows version after deployment and such i learned diff between 'open source' and 'free software' and thats what turned me onto FSF --- MySQL is supporting auto_increment, in relation to which you can use LAST_INSERT_ID() function to know what is the new value. It differs from sequences in the step , which is always 1. The other difference from a sequence is that auto_increment doesn't ensure monotonic ID's (the "famous" insert > delete last record > insert sequence). All the values in the table are still *unique*. That is, there are no duplicates in the table. can you use LAST_INSERT_ID() nope will kill master/detail figured as much I imagine we'll try the table-as-sequence trick I think we can make that work as long as we can lock the table/record some how jcater: why the hell are you using mysql? chillywilly: I'm not but we have a MySQL driver who is? that is considered broken oooooh until we can do this :) hi all! hi trying to figure out how pathetic mysql really is? so mysql doesn't handle master/detail because of sequences? er, the mysql driver chillywilly: that's my current issue! blah!!! well there are ways around it like using guid's isntead of sequences hack the functionality into the mysql db driver but I don't particularly want to go down that road *cough* hack *cough* this will come up for other simple 'databases' fuck mysql ;) drop all mysql support ;) no thanks i might catch something that is the answer! chillywilly: some of us don't have much of a choice ajmitch: beat your emplyer into submission ;) hmmm might find something oh well derek: dcl allows one to keep track of time spent on a ticket? yes it does it 'automagically you open the ticket do your work click ok and the clock stops hmm unlike work orders where you 'enter' time tickets use a 'stop watch' as they are more designed for helpdesk type work than programmer type work need a system which works by email currently when at a job, the boss will email himself the start & stop time, so that he can bill them properly :) one day it'd be nice if it could be tied in to invoicing somehow, so that it's semi-automated :) jcater: http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Miscellaneous_functions.html search for simulate sequences that's neat Action: chillywilly tries to remember the app that L. S. Research used to track billable hours bingo it's not quite as braindead as we thought! well, no that's pretty damn braindead dude but not as braindead as having *nothing* they put crap like that in their official manual hehe but don't see the need to support sequences? what's wrong with this picture? mysql is a comedy turned tragedy jcater: tell us how you really feel about it chillywilly: I'll tell you how I feel about it hang on.... http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jcater/goats/designer-splash.png thjat damn installing debs really bogs my laptop down that's how I feel about it haha nice Action: chillywilly can't view it yet as my system is a bit loaded so jcater will that work for you? derek: yes, I think we can make that work it's nasty, but certainly doable cool well not cool better than nothing :) Action: chillywilly searches for a flannel shirt as he is freezing his a$$ off but better than saying not supporting mysql mutha it is cold out tonight jcater: guess its time to replace oracle with mysql re: jcater: chillywilly go to hell so we need an example master/detail form for mysql sigh chillywilly: its getting cold in here im freezing my ass off :) there is *one* issue with this approach well, one biggie it's a hack? (there are lots of issues :) only one, that's impressive ;) well in order for this to work you have to use this sequence table to populate your id field NOT auto_incremenet ugh as in, the field can't be auto_increment cant we make gsd deal with this? that'll catch a lot of people out yes for tables we create and tables we use as gsd will know to create the table but for migrating existing apps to GNUe ah it won't work well the manual suggests doing well thats perfect reason to upgrade to postgres :) select max(id) + 1 but that really won't work either i guess it's something to hack into the db driver then? derek: what were you babbling on about? i suggest the Moe (from three stooges method) that is if it dont work poke yourself in the eye it will make you not focus on fact its not working lol hehe Action: derek is away: movies chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ewll everyone stop talking about him now! sigh but, but, but.... jcater: is that an image of a "mad goat rape" ? that designer splash screen chillywilly: yeah heheh you should make that the official splash screen ;) um, yeah... right I am glad we agree ;) chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" bye chillywilly So quiet all of a sudden. =) trilluser (~trillian@pcd701244.netvigator.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hehe Hello! hi trilluser I have just download "trillian", and I do not know how to set up and register a user name. hehe SWEET! Router configs going into my database! uh oh Action: ajmitch watches jbailey chuckle insanely What's that noise that gowlin makes? BOUYAH! or somethinkg like that? probably I think this means I can go home now. your GNUe stuff working ok now? Yeah. It's... "quirky" But it'll do. excellent :) quirks can be hammered out I think we're a little ways off until we can deploy this to accounting for their purchase order system, though. yeah well how long did it takt to put together? But (oneof j*) mentioned he thought 0.5.0 might be out around christmas solving a number of problems. that's fairly soon Ummm. In the end? 3 days. So.. Hmm.. 30 hours? 35 Hours? that's fairly good, i suppose :) a bit quicker than hacking it all together from scratch Considering that in that time I've discovered how to cause a critical hang, discovered that gnue's mysql drivers don't work, and... (what was the the third thing?) hehe packaged stuff? This is all using the packages in sid. And I uploaded gnue-reports this morning. =) and learned how to use it i must say it's fairly impressive trilluser (~trillian@pcd701244.netvigator.com) left #gnuenterprise. Y'all have been wonderful. Action: ajmitch is going to close a few spammed RT tickets :) hmm, that one about WebPublish... it's a valid request, does accounts handle it? I'd have to look at the request. Any account creation pretty goes through accounts, though it's not creation ah, he has a gnudist account, just needs to know where to upload his tarball :) ftp-upload should theoretically handle that. hmm Except that ftp-upload is 95% spam. Maybe 20 messages a day. i was going to just tell him to mkdir ~ftp/gnu/webpublish, and scp to there In that, there's usually 1 or 2 ftp-upload requests per week. since that's what i did with pnet :) ajmitch: Sounds good. I think automated scripts go through and make sure permissions are right. =) yeah umask is generally set right permissions seem to be inherited from the gnu dir since it has sticky bit set or something :) hmm, just checked, it's already uploaded Action: ajmitch pokes jbailey --- Thu Nov 28 2002