jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-66.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. hi psu hi word up, all yo i don;t recognise this "word" Is it a new server? ;-) yes and the word is sleep ping word Action: jcater now plans to go check on word err sleep to make sure it's up err down err nite night nite Action: jcater is away: zzzz reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. news re. reports .debs added to front page of website cool Action: psu probably ought to do a mail list announce too btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. good morning hi Action: psu is away: shower Action: psu needs to let my arm pits be my charm pits ;-) ew hehe ello nickr hey samuel_xuxu (~samuel_xu@hy.cz.jsinfo.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: psu is back (gone 00:18:25) psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. samuel_xuxu (~samuel_xu@hy.cz.jsinfo.net) left irc: johannes_ (~johannes@M693P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes (~johannes@M693P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) left irc: Remote closed the connection btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: paqan (~paqan@202.155.120.221) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-109-56.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hello siesel ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port17.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port21.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. sigh Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left #gnuenterprise ("Lunch"). reinhard: what about a extra 'close_list' parameter for the fetch(session_id,list_id,start,count) function? that would make the job of the garbage collector (on the server side) much easier. the other option would be to allow just one active list per class per session. rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" siesel: right we need a close_list um to be consisten with our naming scheme we need a closeList ;) consistent you already working on the new interface code? i plan to start the new interface documentation over the weekend so we'll see who has finished his part first and whether they fit together ;-)) ok, then I leave the broken textinfo I tried to produce for you :) btw. we should discuss the generation of Object IDs soon, because that's important to make the API working Action: siesel is away: children is derek around? blurr (~joe@dhcp-0-5-5d-e9-88-8d.cpe.mountaincable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. morning all hello blurr I was just taking a first look at the GNUe site Looking into building apps for non-profits and charities Action: siesel is back (gone 00:13:13) cool what is the status of GNUe, right now? Would it be possible to start up on a prototype? blurr: the tools of GNUe are quite stable, so starting a prototype would be quite easy. you should try out the upcoming 4.2 release. Are there any projects that are currently using GNUe? prereleases can be downloaded at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php the papo project is using gnue. siesel: re generation of object id's and a gnue-sb (Small Business) Project is on the way. reinhard: why "RE" generation? i'd say we define the object id to be .id um ok, that's fine. 0.4.2 i think this means "refering to the generation" gnue-sb, is that a generic small business app? or a framework for small business apps? big difference imho than 4.2 chillywilly: upps, siesel: and id is the content of the "id" column in the database hi all. is pythons variables statically or dynamically declared? so we don't store the classname in the database of course SachaS: my understanding is a python variable is automatically generated when first time assigned a value I would say they are dynamic siesel: we will want to find out an algorithm for generating "unique" id's but that's implementation specific ok. sounds like dynamically then. if you have a class you cannot delare that a variable is of type/class String. you even have the __init__ them in a class s/the/to/ SachaS: python is dynamically typed I thought of putting all unique id stuff in a geasUniqeIDManger class or something similar. chillywilly. i just realised the difference between dynamically and statically declaration when i want to implement a design in mind :) basically java and c++ are my only oo programming languages so far. is there no python interface to libuuid? SachaS: and those are statically typed ;) yes so i have to bend my mind around them .... SachaS: to take a c++ look you could day that programming with python is a bit like always using templates ;) er, say chillywilly: libuuid was the most trobulesome dependency in geasv1, so we might want to try to get around without it oh well iirc there code in the rpc abstraction that creates unique ids the object dictionary stuff actually it's something i don't care too much now because we can change the algorithm any time we want and stay compatible I don't see it being a problem jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-109-56.netcologne.de) left irc: "laater" jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: "Client Exiting" rossg__ (~rossg@203.156.9.143) joined #gnuenterprise. rossg_ (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) blurr: a little of both it will aim to be a 'solution' for small business but note is highly likely will have a 'non-profit' branch as i need some stuff my church and some local non-profits and LOTS of people ask for it Action: derek is away: work Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. gav (~gav@formika.chereda.net) joined #gnuenterprise. gav (~gav@formika.chereda.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Вышел из XChat"). jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: looks like we are working towards the same goal derek: I have to go now, but I'll be back later, maybe we can discuss it in more detail then Action: blurr is away: I'm busy blurr: Are you sure? Derek's goal is to take over the world. Or so it seems to me, anyway. =) rossg__ (~rossg@203.156.9.143) left irc: "Client Exiting" Nick change: SachaS -> SachaS_sleep morning ajmitch: Why are you awake? =) i have no idea i went to bed, but sleep didn't come :) Figured we'd bore you to sleep? yep! works most other times hmm, RMS asking why we accounts people are so slack Action: ajmitch had better try & help a bit :) I haven't looked at accounts in forever. http://rt.gnu.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=7658 <-- no one's replied to the poor chap in about 2 weeks I used to have a pile of templates that were easy to send out. I should dig those up. this is a perfect case of where I would send an email telling him that the guile-emacs maintainer needs to send the email requesting the account. ok I just find dealing with the gpg keys and all that to be so much of a hassle. yeah, it takes ages to track down something oh why did i say i had a GNU/Hurd box? Well, it needs to be automated to where we can type in a key id into a box and have it say "yes, a trust path exists" or "no, it does not" yeah, i saw a webpage like that had about 1.3million keys indexed obviously it's not an easy task :) Nope. But it's exactly what's required. My thing was that handling an account used to take less than 2 minutes. Action: ajmitch fscks all the partitions on the GNU/Hurd box Any longer than that and I can't do it. yeah :) So stupid things like that RT sends out blank emails. short attention span? :) Or having to figure out how to verify a trust path. Nope - I usually do them when I need a break at work. heh ok So I could do a half-dozen accounts in a day at work. That's how I used to handle all of subversions too. I got it scripted to the point where it was less than two minutes to handle 99% of the questions for subversions. cool why is it slower now? which it, sorry? =) it used to be 2 min to setup account You must be tired, my friend. So stupid things like that RT sends out blank emails. Or having to figure out how to verify a trust path. (about 6 minutes back) right ;) tired, but unable to sleep tired enough to even be helping ams I had a friend who told me he had two 'M' cures for lack of sleep. mm? Meditation or Masturbation. heh He said if one didn't work, the other would. ;) Action: ajmitch wonders why he can't login to this box ajmitch@fencepost:~$ ssh ams@ajmitch.dhis.org -p 2200 -P it not work :( Well, the portfoward is fine. Did he give you an ssh key, or a password login? i setup a password Ah, then I don't know why it doesn't work. i setup port forwarding on my box - i see packets being processed by that rule Tell him to connect using ssh -vv and look at the output. but none going out the masq rule The portforwarding is fine, I checked. :P how could you check? jeffb@desert:~$ telnet ajmitch.dhis.org 2200 Trying 202.27.204.21... Connected to wlg1-port21.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz. Escape character is '^]'. SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_3.0.2p1 Debian 1:3.0.2p1-8.3 Debian 1:3.0.2p1-8.3 ah that's interesting! NExt question? =) that's my GNU/Hurd box debug1: kex: client->server aes128-cbc hmac-md5 none debug1: SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_REQUEST sent debug1: expecting SSH2_MSG_KEX_DH_GEX_GROUP last 3 lines Action: ajmitch can login locally just fine And it never gets the group response? Weird. nope normal telnetd works :) Action: jbailey is away: lunch revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ello yo Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:27:29) yo yo yo hey revDeke I was checking ot geeks4christ.org and I saw your lasted post about all the inconsistencies/inaccuracies of the Gospel and was wondering what you think about it? er, out er, last I think a lot of it is nit picking and taking some things out of context reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Anything is good and useful if it's made of chocolate" Action: revDeke has reviewed in a long time hmmm? speka enlgish man ;) speak too ;) blah Action: chillywilly speaks fluent enlgish :-o is it wrong to have pizza for breakfast? That's a gospel contradiction? Or an unrealated thought? =) probably unrelated ajmitch: absolutely not, in fact its the 'proper' thing to do especially if you share ;) chillywilly: i just approved about 4 more stories on G4C Action: revDeke really needs to fix that site up ajmitch: you know I have just been reading some stuff by that Dr. White guy and I think he's so obssessed with "Reformation" that he loses sight of what is important decay (~hss@210.187.13.74) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Action: revDeke is doing a study in Deuteronomy that is pretty cool but thats for another channel :) hi decay i was gonna ask if omg has any docs on economic databases i've seen something called iqml great cartoon http://www.johnwestcomics.com/politicaltoons.html if you think 4th ademendment rights are dwindling erm, which amendment is the 4th? ah man this guy is funny http://www.johnwestcomics.com/preemptive.html http://www.johnwestcomics.com/voting.html that's pretty sad :( 4th admendment is search and siezure http://www.johnwestcomics.com/seesaw.html ah yea, gotta love the U.S. Patriot Act :( bye Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Client Exiting" decay (~hss@210.187.13.74) left irc: jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5 (EOF)" anyone thought about going to the Enterprise Linux Forum? What's that? http://www.jupiterevents.com/elf/fall02/index.html I suppose it's a bit late now It also looks like it has speakers who don't know what they're talking about. Migrating C/C++ Applications from Unix to Linux Is a non-sensical statemement. Looks like an executive conference rather than a techie one. chillywilly: Where're you working these days? I remember you didn't used to be able to be online during the day. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Are the uidrivers/ files changing much from 0.4.1 to 0.5.0? yup Also, is there a master table of which widgets need to be provided by an UI, and which drivers support which ones? well, a bit ajmitch: Are you still awake? =) probably not of course i'm still awake! hmm, ams has logged out I'm trying to figure out what effort I would need to put in to never see wxpython again. lol Well, you have to admit that it's hideous. =) why do you think i've hacked on the gtk2 driver a little? So there's no tech paper explaining what functions need to be provided and handled? dunno ;) Do you know who would know? great, now i've screwed up sshd :) jcater would know Hmmm. Idle 14 hours. Not likely to appear. stranger things have happened Action: ajmitch wonders why sshd segfaults on startup now hmm, more than just sshd is screwed :) lupo (~lupo@pD9E68EBE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. what are you looking to replace wxwindows with>? hi can someone tell me the command to check out the stable branch? suck, sync is hanging again :) revDeke: Well, since gtk2 already exists, I figured native win32 widgets. That would solve the problem nicely. The widget files don't look like they'd take more than a week or so to write. lupo: AFAIK there isn't a single stable branch. What I did was, first checkout CVS HEAD. Then in each of forms, designer and common do: jbailey: it only requires a certain level of perversity to write a win32 ui driver cvs update -rforms-0-4-1-branch judging by what you're involved in, you more than meet the qualification :) replacing forms with whatever the directory you're in. ajmitch: Involved in? Action: jbailey looks around. What have I done now? =) I'm not sure I can usefully deploy this to end-users without doing something about the widget set. Folks in networking would put up with it. I don't think people in other departments would. ok why does it suck so badly? Stupid little things, like when you change a drop box, it doesn't update the drop box until you click on another box. Or the fact that I had to reduce it to 8 point to overcome a form size bug. what sucks? jbailey: 0.5.0 will have native win32 that is one of the MAJOR advances in 0.5.0 revDeke: Someone is writing it already? I thought it was still wishlist-class. i.e. dont run and do too much work jamest and jcater are working on it for 0.5.0 they just have a moratorium on ALL ui changes until the new gfd spec is done that seems to be coming along nicely and then they will start the native win32 driver and release 0.5.0 http://www.gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/forms.html it says 'start win32 driver', but my understanding is they want to have a 'working' one for hard testing as of 0.5.0 drop down boxes are the BIGGEST evil in the wx on win32 and its not fixable in wx thus why jamest and jcater have decided win32 native is MANDATORY It's too bad their not here to ask. Why are all of the IRC channels so quiet today?> nobody knows ... im 99.9% positive jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-128.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. MWAHAHAHAHAH he appears. ;) speak of the devil! Action: revDeke chains jamest to the chair jamest is the devil? let the interrogation begin jamest: Scared yet? devil, jamest, goats... speaking of sigh i have pictures of my kids at the goat farm Now I'm scared. Nick change: jamest -> MrJones Action: revDeke is wondering if i should post them anytime soon Nick change: MrJones -> jamest jamest: the 64 hundred dollar question is .... jbailey: see what i mean about being weird? :) Action: jamest accepts his fate revDeke: Careful of your children around goats. Those animals have been seen doing crazy things to computers recently. will win32 driver be in 0.5.0 er native win32 jamest: And I was proposing that I could help. jbailey: roflmao not if jason or I have to do it re /msg jamest i think you found a new windows testing bi0tch 0.5.0 is all about gfd file changes at least that's what it's evolved into jamest: so was the thought win32 after the 0.5.0 change ah let me read the feature plan ok i was thinking it was 1st half gfd change second half win32/curses fix up the feature plan says start of win32 in 0.5.0 jamest: I was looking over the various widget files, and it's hard to see at a glace which functions/widgets are needed. jamest: And I was hoping you could be enticed to write a matrix of some sort. i think it might be best to do gfd change only as 0.5.0 you asked about 0.5.0 not 0.5.x :) and maybe get it out a little sooner than maybe first figured and nto be shy to release 0.5.x's Listing functions that need to be implemented, widget sets, and checkmarks where they've been implemented. that might have some 'features' the plan is 0.5.0 is most/all the gfd changes with the rest of the stuff comming in over the 0.5.x releases as for a matrix hmmmmm i might be able to whip something up but I'll have to re-read the code to figure it out myself jamest: I'd argue that it's ongoing useful. jamest: Then when you need to create more widgets you add it to the list. ooooooo btami (~btami@3e70d725.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. all a ui driver mainly needs to do And each UI maintainer can note the change and then mark off when (s)he's coded it. i thought interface with uidrives/_base revDeke: Why is the font on http://www.gnuenterprise.org/feature-plans/appserver.html so large? cp UIwxpython.py UIwin32.py hi and starting to change around would be a good start jbailey: um dont know and generate evens like uidirver/wx internally we don't give too much a crap how it works :) that plan was submitted by jan IIRC revDeke: cp'ing things around means that if there's cruft in there, then more time is spent implementing thigns that didn't need to be. yeah, the ui driver interface needs documented that was part of the plans for the 0.6.x releases i think jason and I figured we'd have to implement them so docs were'nt needed :) i'll try and set aside some time this weekend to look into documenting it mmm, sick people discussing lisp jbailey: is that acceptable or are you ready to roll now? That's fine. i forget not everyone is on holiday I was thinking not next wek but the week after I would spend as much time that week as I could. you hit your dec 1st deadline? I did, thank-you. and they are going to use it? Yes. excellent :) But I'm concerned that rolling the wxpython UI to non-techies could be... painful. you get your christmas bonus then? the gtk2 one needs love to make it work nicely jbailey: it's a holiday in US ya know it would run on windows, if you wanted it jbailey: that's why I am able to be online jbailey: I work for http:/www.simplexgrinnell.com damn holidays that's how we get to put up with him chillywilly: you should be with family, not online! :) I just came to do something quick bye bye Action: ajmitch has no family to be with :) Action: revDeke thinks truth is family doesnt want to be with him ;) Action: ajmitch sobs chillywilly: Holiday in the US? thanksgiving they're lazy there Wasn't that yesterday? that's what i mean :) yes, but today is biggest shopping day of the year here so a lot of people get the day off to run out and consume Ah, upper class holiday. Retails workers are exempted from it.= ) lol, i guess so part of me is entirely against mindless consumerism and its emphasis on days like today... and part of me really want the gifts on my list ;-) hello all jbailey: so you're "working" today? :) hey jbailey if your employer starts using gnue would it possible to get them to be on the 'who uses gnue list' that doesnt exist yet ajmitch: Are you implying that I'm an American? =) revDeke: Doubtful. i'm not that silly revDeke: Because we're a financial institution, we're pretty private about that.