nickr: wondering to ask about american one funnyily, the guy who played the main character in the russian one looks a lot like george cloonie onyone seen american one? or it is very new its very new I think it started today or something SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-66.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Arturas Hello :) hello all blurr (~joe@24.215.37.99) joined #gnuenterprise. hi blurr Hi psu, how are you? not bad. Just hanging out here before I go for Saturday lunctime shopping mainly for food, although I might sneak this month's Linux mag into the trolley when no-one's looking ;-) psu (psu@manorcon.demon.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise ("gone shopping..."). ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) joined #gnuenterprise. blurr (~joe@24.215.37.99) left irc: "Client Exiting" SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-24.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "No problem is so interesting that you can't just walk away from it" siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-145.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) larsu (~rfox@dhcp024-210-203-244.woh.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. anyone running the 2.4.20 kernel in production? Sort of. We've got -pre4 or something like that on production boxes. Action: jcater needs to put 2.4.20 on one of mine but hate upgrading kernels :) We needed it to support the Ethernet controller. jcater: You using Debian? yes of course :) *lol* what else is there? So at least you don't have to compile the thing yourself. yeah But it's not in Unstable yet to port forward. bugger how long does it usually take the kernel packagers? About a week. ok They usually wait long enough to make sure it's not a brown paper bag release. right Action: jcater can wait a week Unlike, say, the Hurd, Linux doesn't have a test suite. =) lol the kernel scares me :) IT should. If you've ever read the code, it's crap. it's one of those things that if you look at it "this can't possibly work" but work it does I have several friends who have had to study it in their OS classes, and they all say that it's crap. It's silly things like remote debugging, test suites, use of the common glibc, etc. that still give me hope for the Hurd. Because *that's* where we're actually breaking ground. Action: jcater made the mistake of buying a new IDE 133 controller board a week or so ago *lol* just to get it installed and realize it's not supported until 2.4.20 :-/ this was for a 160Gb rsync mirror drive but, bugger Nice. How much as a 160Gb drive? I was upset :) not much I don't exactly remember I sent someone to get it and just signed the PO Ah, okay. I'm starting to think about a new PC. A glibc compile on my box is over 2 hours now, with all of the options I have to go through. um I thought 2 hrs was quick for something like that? I guess it's all relative, though 40 minutes for a reuglar build with profiling. 20 minutes for the testsuite. but then I recompile it, umm.. 3 more times? for -486, -586, -686 :( So I'm starting to think that my pentium 3 750mhz just isn't enough anymore. =) Also, I tihnk I have pc100 ram in here still. So, 266 ddr ram (and more of it than 128 megs), and a Pentium 3ghz w/ HT should cut that down nicely. you thin k? :)= I'm watching the prices. I'm hoping late spring early summer will be when the HT chips hit a decent price. jcater: do you think it is a problem to allow just one input and one output datasource for an Integrator mapping? all the rest would/could be done by submappings jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ColeMarcus (ColeMarcus@p50805FB4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS -> Sacha_away jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: "Client Exiting" hello? what happened to the old geas anyway? http://savannah.gnu.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/gnue/obsolete/geas/ hrrrm siesel: I'm not sure hrrrm? nothing just poking around jcater: I think its getting easier this way. Especially if there are one-to-many row mappings combined with one-to-one row mappings see I can't actually view the files themselves with that can I? nm I see the view link now jcater, do you know how to close a db connection with gnue-common? I don't like the 'DEBUG: pq_recvbuf: unexpected EOF on client connection' lines in the syslog Action: siesel is away: housework Action: derek still wishes integrator was discussed more (sigh) nickr: i think im going to use one of those photos from the series i liked as a background okay if you tell me wich I'll degrain it and correct teh colours Action: derek is back (gone 27:44:48) do you have them in 'bigger' sizes or was the original image in the smaller size bigger than whateverx450? the origanals are 1280x1024 btw: igal rocks but it it doesnt convert down properly Action: derek needs to file bug reports what do you mean, doesn't convert down properly? passing bigy 800 or whatever makes the .slideshow.jpg yes, and preserves the original scaled down and right size and looks nice but creates the 'html' page wrong oh its missing a quote or something in the image tag yea so it doesnt display the image ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-134.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. doesn't happen on mine I remember a bug like that along time ago it worked on one box but i apt-get install on another and its broked Action: derek will try to update but i think its broked Action: derek cant remember if that pc is woody, sarge or sid :) Action: derek needs to move my stuff to a shared drive anyhow so either box can update it i have found my new toy has me taking a BOAT LOAD of pictures and loving it so anyway, which do you like? I'll make a background of it sorry i thought i pasted the url http://nick.industrialmeats.com/data/pictures/photos/2002/september/26/pict3144.html i think i like best (though it might not be the best background) seems okay if you don't mind having houses and stuff in your backgrounds :) well i wish there was a little more house stylistic speaking heh you'll notice that most of the pictures I take have nothing human made Action: derek thinks the allure to this set (other than the impeding orange to red) is awesomeness of the event (i assume forest fire) swelling over and virtually consuming a town Its jsut a sunset wow even better just the most incredible sunset ever we get some pretty killer ones here, but i must admit that is downright phat reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. nickr: you're a nature freak, granola eatin', long haired hippy ;) do you wear sandals? ;P hi reinhard hi chillywilly Action: reinhard wears sandals yea well you're a hippy too ;) Action: derek wears sandals sometimes better than a hippo, /me presumes hmmm jcater: lol chillywilly: I just haven't graduated beyond the flower and sunset photographing stage Action: derek looks in mirror... darn... hippo in sandals if you want to be a hippie put a flower on your p*pp* I want to be a hippy hmmm? heheh Action: derek is a journalist type photographer nature is beautiful for example here is a picture i took for 'young enterpreneur' magazine Although I got some good bridge pictures http://gnuenterprise.org/~dneighbo/donut_boy.jpg rofl a kid after my own heart scotty says who is that jcater: actually he is after your wallet (and it looks like he knows the path to it) ;) scotty: that is my nephew Ezra he's trying to type his name now one sec guys i think our family is trying to rebuild old testament prophet/leaders we have Noah, Nehemiah, Jeremiah and Ezra scotty yay! he typed that one scotty can you spell 'object'? here, let me get TJ to type his name: OOP... like POOP without the 'P' expensive yay! TJ, you are good at least you didnt type exspensuv or i would have said it was 'jamest' typing ;) object Action: jcater can see scotty in kindergarten good job scotty! :-) Ok, Scotty... it's your turn. What is your daddy's name? Chilly Willy jcater: i was thinking more like My dad is strong Um, ok.... uh, Jonathan your turn My dad is stronger oh yeah my dad can beat up your dad no way my dad coudl beat up your dad My dad can troutslap both your dads! dude my dad would trout slap both your dads so bad they woudl ahve to roll down their socks to take a dookie donuts scotty typed that form looking at that picture from even derek: lol anyone have their tv hooked to their computer? chillywilly: seems like scotty can type better than you :P nope hehe but he's slow ;) tv? what's that? at least I can type fast and crappy oh, is that the thing people watch when they have spair time? Action: derek supposes i can tape from my tv to my digital video recorder then try to get that working with computer sometime soon there is a good concert on i would like to make digital to trade and burn cd's from Nick change: chillywilly -> scotty who is this? oh this is great from someone that uses MSN/Hotmail.... an AUTO generated tag line === MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. rofl, that is FUNNY Action: derek is away: tree trimming Nick change: scotty -> chillywilly scotty (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hi scotty scotty heheh everyone should let their kids IRC uufcxzsaqwertyjhgbnnuuuuuuuu lol plmmjjjjjiiuubvr/who scotty: http://www.geekcomix.com/dm/tuxtype/ Action: chillywilly smacks jcater around he's only 5 Action: jcater smacks chillywilly around it's never to early to learn yea and does TJ know python yet? cause you're supposed to teach him IIRC :P sure he's got print "I want peanut butter and jelly" derek: http://nick.industrialmeats.net/proj/photo-backgrounds/ down to a science dfhgggj he doesn't even need a computer to get that one working :) well scotty has "I want a sandwhich" down to a science it's his favorite thing to eat rtrgygfuyerrruygggggrtuytrscoottttttygtrrr hhome better than Ezra is cool band depot lol he's typing things that he sees ymm we need to get some lunch mr. scotty peanuts kids... hi scotty Action: chillywilly is away: lunch for scotty and I jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: Client Quit Action: chillywilly is back (gone 00:07:39) whadddup dude sup scotty scotty: I heard the old man was pretty rough fight the power, man! fight the power! lol he asked me how to spell "whaddup dude" Action: siesel is back (gone 01:26:18) can i have drink sure scotty (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is back (gone 00:35:35) rdean (rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise. rdean (rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: Client Quit ColeMarcus (ColeMarcus@p50805FB4.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: derek: So, when should we discuss integrator? dtm ([zZ+Q2kzEP@ip66.promontory.sfo.interquest.net) left irc: "system shutdown in progress" hi morning ajmitch siesel: it would be good to start with, if we started with the original proposal by das the problem is you are wanting to implement something before a requirements of what it should even do has been defined you mean the documents on the website? Action: derek just gets frustrated, because just like appserver has objects and is implemented as such that doesnt even exist on the requirements i would like to see a 'small not overly verbose' list of what the 'goals' of integrator are I've tryed to sum some of these goals up. In the mail http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnue-dev/2002-November/000319.html havoc (~havoc@mke-24-209-160-18.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. la not once mentioning the implementation then we can decide how/what to implment based on the 'needs' i think coding to get something done and refactoring is a good thing and dont want to 'over document' or 'talk things to death' but on the same token i think we need a unified (goal/purpose) before we start implementing or you end up with geas v1 which was code that didnt do anything towards the goal/purpose and gets totally thrown out doh apt-get upgrade w/ pcmcia sucks :) lost conneciotn for a minute ok, so please lets us define aims soon, because I need the stuff. Action: derek thought your mail was highly 'implemenation' specific and not goal specific (but i will reread) i.e. should we use this syntax vs that syntax or this kind of source vs this source is an implementation question not a 'goal' type of question ah ok reading mail looks like a good start Action: derek didnt see this one for some reason i saw the one after it with long paragraphs actually i might remember this one I don't think that this will take long, because you and jcater already have commented the 'what should integrator do' mail, so ... i would like to see more a 'numbered' list (after dicussion) of goals and importance (similar to appserver) like goal one is a a truly strong copyleft licensed integration engine written with copyleft tools i.e. this list will be part of the faq so when datajunction is available on linux and someone says how come you 're invented the wheel' we can point to the list of goals and the date and say 'nothing that matched that' existed at the time ok, a numbered list ist fine for me. And the goal one is good. the number list just helps in trying to sort out what goals are most important so they can be attacked sooner (if it makes sense) but I still would like a list of 'integrator will|could|should do this' and 'integrator won't shouldn't do that' list i dont think we need so much the 'wont' do this unless there is something that we REALLY want to make clear it wont do as the 'do this' list should keep people busy enough to not do the 'wont do' :) but if there are some 'common tempatations' that we dont want to do, we should list them as wont do :) i would take your email you posted refactor based on jcater and my comments number order in sequence you would plan to implement and repost for comment then take comments you get and modify and post a final goals list (not final as in never changing but final as in final enough to start implementing) ;) it would be cool to see 'feature plan' too, but not mandatory I would still like to have a 'integrator won't do that', because then we won't get the same problems as with appserver, where 'someone' is doing step 20 (the objects) before step 3 (stability) if we had defined: appserver won't have objects this wouldn't have happend siesel: good point if you know 'gotchas' please do list them the 'sync' database thing scares me but i would like integrator to do that 'some day' so as long as its down on the list a bit i think its pertinent the same coudl be said for 'real time' integration i.e. i dont think we should focus on either one of those early on but certainly they could be long term goals yes, I think so too. I put the 'sync' thing in to get a veto during our meeting at frankfurt we had long discussions what appserver should do and what not. And there were many quite useful features which you COULD put into appserver... but these features would make it grow and get bad to handle. and in most cases we saw that its better to put them into seperate programs yeah f.e. GNUe hasn't a MOM ( Message Oriented Middleware ) yet. im hopeful that integrator is pretty straight forward in what its focus is siesel: common :) MOM belongs in common back to the 'sync' thing, we can possibly define that integrator will be just process orientated, like doing one job and return after that. For real 'sync' stuff a user has to use 'integrator server' or something like that siesel: we can adress later yep but yeah my idea is sync is just an integration routine ran more than one time and that we have a management tool that you can 'cron' basically the sync or such but again i dont think its overly important just yet it should be on the mind but not consuming it :) i need to run... be back soon trying to grab a concert off tv to the computer os have to drop my connection grrr until i get dumb wireless to work someday btw. appserver could need 'cron' too, so a 'cron' tool should provided by gnue in the future too. siesel: there should be a gui cron somewhere hopefully in python we could build on if not we need to write one :) hehe. as thats needed for 'enterprises' brb derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" cu dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch_ (~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-24-209-160-18.wi.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise ("*I'm* your daddy"). ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port21.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: ajmitch_!~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz)) Nick change: ajmitch_ -> ajmitch reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "There's always one more imbecile than you expect" Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) joined #gnuenterprise. re Yurik (~yrashk@as5300.kharkov.ukrtel.net) left #gnuenterprise ("Вышел из XChat"). dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left irc: K-lined siesel (jan@xdsl-213-168-119-145.netcologne.de) left irc: "night" tsk tsk naught cw! heh hi Isomer :) howdy rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) left irc: ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hey does anyone know if unix has 'net' commands like netcopy netmove or the likes Action: derek knows novell had this trick not afaik ajmitch: im a bash idiot can you tell me how to do for x in `ls` do someprog -option foo $x and make it work maybe i need () around x in `ls` gack slow internet sucks perhaps use ; for x in `ls`; do someprog -option foo $x; done something like that ah im missing the ; in do thank you sir for x in `ls` do mogrify -resize 33% $x; done does the trick excellent chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hello chillywilly Action: ajmitch just had to reboot rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. --- Sun Dec 1 2002