just goes to show you that gnome 2 is really not finished imho but I only change wm once and the debian setup is frelled btw, that guy did the eqivalent of those commands killed one wm started the other and saved the session it fugly it's yeah i have sawfishs now to try metacity btw er save session then log out does metacity have a pager? log back in yes I have been happy with metacity only thing I miss is the kill thing when right clicking BUT ok I think if you click a window that does not respon you get a dialog to kill it derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: chillywilly slits his throat ok chuckie i have metacity after much ado how the hell can i configure it :) ummm there's not much to configure it is themeable the pager has no configuration really :( umm i.e. i can 'edge flip' ? hell i cant even drag windows arouund well there is a metacity-setup program I think blah Action: derek cant handle that (i hated fluxbox for this reason) but at least it had tabbed windows to compensate how can you change the themes even Action: derek is really thinking they have gone backwards with gnome, but am holding judgement until tis further along you dl some themes no i havent my question is how can i change them as if its a bunch of hooey like changing windows manager i wont bother :) nope go to advanced damnit where th frell is that grrrr sigh chillywilly you know im a fsf junkie and that i really want gnome to succeed I am VERY tired fewl but 2 hours with this compared to 10 minutes with kde3 you know it is almost frelling midnight and kde3 has gnomes butt whipped here not like slightly better, but kicks the crap out of it :( plz Action: derek is trying to be truthful i hate the kompany i am no big fan of qt I stayed up to help you but I ain't much help and I am sorta getting very perturbed because I can't think anyway so don't fucking tell me some shit like that and this is different than normal because... (j/k) umm stfu I've had enough of this crap, I'm going to bed chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-202-50.wi.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise ("Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org"). SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-24.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-157.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-157.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-157.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-134.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client" derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hmmm ok gnome2 is usable now :) yippee Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello hi Action: derek is away: sleep reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left #gnuenterprise (""lectures, later""). fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "For each complex problem, there is a simple, understandable, obvious, and wrong solution" reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard_ (~reinhard@M698P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes_ (~johannes@M693P018.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) reinhard (~reinhard@M693P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) johannes (~johannes@M700P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-157.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-215.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: roblimo (~robin@dt170n62.tampabay.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dimas (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) left irc: "Client Exiting" Action: derek is back (gone 08:12:06) derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) joined #gnuenterprise. any of you enterprising folks have experience running multipart form printers under Linux? work ok with postscript and ghostscript drivers, or should one think about text printing as a totally different problem? I use them extensively for invoices and for check runs Action: jcater does epson ESC/P for any formatting I need I couldn't imagine running ghostscript against a forms printer, but that's just me well, I guess it depends on the volume jcater: that's what I would have thought too. so you just manually generate ESC/P ? not too much of a PITA? no more than postscript of course, it'not my favorite thing in the world to do err, it's not jcater: ok, makes sense. is it sort of a postscripty (drawing) model, or is it more print-line oriented? print-line print text [begin bold] text [end bold] text kind of thing makes sense. thanks for the info fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. banjara (~chatzilla@chandratech.demon.co.uk) joined #gnuenterprise. fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) joined #gnuenterprise. banjara (~chatzilla@chandratech.demon.co.uk) left irc: Remote closed the connection StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all I have problem w/ reports. uh, just a sec. StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left #gnuenterprise. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: jbailey is away: Lunch reinhard_ (~reinhard@M698P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard__ (~reinhard@M698P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: reinhard__ -> reinhard roblimo (~robin@dt170n62.tampabay.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" lupo (~lupo@pD9542C0F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi Action: jbailey is back (gone 00:57:33) Quiet day in gnue-land. chirp chirp chirp ribbet [13:12] Last message repeated 1 time(s). Action: lupo whistles "Il Silenzio" reinhard (~reinhard@M698P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "The more often you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets" at least psu will be happy, because he has less to read :) ColeMarcus (ColeMarcus@p50805F8A.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. lupo_ (~lupo@pD9542C4C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. lupo (~lupo@pD9542C0F.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) I've been thinking about a particular bayonne application that I'm going to write. And I'm trying to figure out if forms will be suitable. (I think it should be, but here goes) I want to take a picture, probably svg, and put it in the background. Picture chosen depends on a field in the database. (notably: What type of phone set is this) I want to put dropboxes on top of each of the set buttons and be able to choose which function per button. And if that function needs suplimental input (like, say, speed call number, or which extension this represents) Have it pop up a text box, or something where the additional information can be filled in. take a picture of what? Phone set. That way an administrator can look at the picture and know which button is being changed. Right now buttons vary per set type, and how you count them is different. So I want to take that away from them and just give them a picture to click on. ah now i understand you want a simple way of programming bayonne through forms!? Pretty much. =) Certainly for set configuration. There should be no reason why you couldn't do this for PRI or line configuration. Or ACD queue. The other trick is that because this is going through a database it can be abstracted on the backend. In my case I don't care much about Bayonne but need this for programming a Nortel M1 Option 11c. sounds useful if you do that, will you release it? Yes. I've already made arrangements with dyfet and my employer. The trick now is picking the technology to do it with. I don't know where forms is at for being able to do this. I suspect 'nowhere close', but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I don't know much about the gfd changes for 0.5.0 and what capabilities that will give us. me too gfd 0.5 sounds like a big secret to me :) gfd's not that big a secret Well, perhaps jcater or jamest can be enticed to say something about it. Action: jbailey holds out a piece of cheese. Careful, it's tofurella. It tastes nasty.= ) bah Action: jcater likes all cheese we sent out an email detailing the new .gfd changes I ordered a 4 cheese pizza ones in Paris, thinking that I would be safe. It was sort of our one last piece of N.American food. jcater: okay, i'll take a look Camembert. Bree. Gorgonzola. ummm.. What was the other one? Might have been Parmesan. wow jcater: I'm not on the gnue mailing lists. Which one should I search? gnue@gnu.org hear hear, somebody uses the mailing lists :) I just wish pipermail didn't suck so much. pipermail sucks? btami (~btami@3e70d73b.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. I think so. It's indexing is suboptimal. hi all ColeMarcus (ColeMarcus@p50805F8A.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit. hm does anyone know the movie "the usual suspects"? http://mail.gnu.org/pipermail/gnue/2002-November/003414.html jcater: already reading it :) jcater: Is there any provision in there for layout on other than a fixed-width grid? jcater: Also to change which form is displayed based on the contents of a certain field? ColeMarcus (ColeMarcus@p50805F8A.dip.t-dialin.net) got lost in the net-split. jbailey: people will have to provide layout managers it's in the works and may reuse some of the code in the old forms.test cvs tree as for the latter I'm not sure I follow we've talked about being able to hide/show pages but I'm not sure if that is what you require jcater: have you got(seen) my direct(no xslt) report filters ? jamest: I'm trying to think of the best way to handle multiple phone sets. So, like, a 2616 has a different button layout than a 2601. jcater: if you like they, i can send a bit enhanced one you are simulating phone keypads as forms? I want to do that for set programming. So that way the admnistrator could just click on a button dropbox and choose the function of that button. bbl revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@3e70d73b.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: "l8r" how many phone sets? As in how many types, or how many in an office? Action: jamest is having lots of trouble picturing what you are after does the dropdown contain phone styles? Okay. give me a couple days and I'll cook it up in html. Which browser do you use? konqueror Does it have SVG enabled? i dunno Then i'll assume no when i'm throwing this together. Tx. looks like it doesn't i also use mozilla if forced to If your konqueror doesn't support it, your moz is probably not enabled with it either. Most systems share the libraries between the two. mozilla doesn't properly display SVG the adobe plugin is proprietary and doesn't work with mozilla lupo_ (~lupo@pD9542C4C.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1" jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. blurr (~joe@dhcp-0-5-5d-e9-88-8d.cpe.mountaincable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. gnue.common.GDataObjects.ConnectionError: ERROR: Bad int8 external representation "" got that/ any honts? grrr hi all, first oh, nevermind snackhound1 (~snackhoun@198.143.31.70) joined #gnuenterprise. StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-216.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?" blurr (~joe@dhcp-0-5-5d-e9-88-8d.cpe.mountaincable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" hi all snackhound1 (~snackhoun@198.143.31.70) left irc: "KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"" dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) left irc: "later.." jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" jamest (~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-128.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: I'm just hacking that web presentation together. My javascript skills were a little rusty, apparently. =) jamest: You there? jamest: When you show up again. Take a look at: http://olympus.nisa.net/~jbailey/phonedisplay/phonedisplay.html It's something like what I'm thinking of. The '2006' would be a different type of phone, but I don't want to draw that unless necessary. The trick here is that it's all attached to one table. Err.. One collection of tables. (Buttons will probably be normalized out to other tables or something like that) Changing from one set type to the next would generally preserve what was on a given button as best as possible, anyway. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Hopefully Konqueror will display it the way I intend. I don't know what version of Mozilla introduced the DOM Css-2 bindings. i try moz1.0 Is it not working? The only propblem should be flipping between the sets. I used a css trick for that. reaching over stcked furniture to type *lol* moving? new carpet big room furn in office = ) Well. don't worry too much about it for now then. =) I'm just leaving to go home anyway. 2616 displays colors no text 606 displays foo That's right. colors should look roughly like a telephone with lots of buttons. wife just told me I'm pathetic for stretching keyboard to top of stack i'd better get back to helping move stuff :) Those buttons could be drop downs or whatnot depending on what the button supports. COol I'll talk to you more later about it. g'night! jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" dews dewds too ;) http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-12-02-018-26-OS-BZ fixe (sfad@dsl093-081-253.chi2.dsl.speakeasy.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) irc without jcater? is it the end times? ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) left irc: Connection timed out well, seeing as how no one can stop me I guess we'll release 0.4.2 tonight bwahahaahah that'll teach jcater and derek to play hookie jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. blurr (~joe@dhcp-0-5-5d-e9-88-8d.cpe.mountaincable.net) joined #gnuenterprise. 0.4.2 forms, designer, common are in the pipe for tonight hope people tried the pre-releases or cvs branch mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) chirp, chirp, chirp jamest: sorry i didnt get to test :( bwahahahaaha mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. can anyone tell me how the business rules are expressed in gnue? rules? businesses use rules? grrr that is gonna complicate things blurr: currently in 2 tier mode you define 'triggers' (or rules) and they are written in python you can put them in the form themselves or you can put in external 'repositories' which more than one form can call So they can be either in a repository, form or dB? not in db unless you want to make 'database specific stored procs' repository or form so the triggers you speak of are implemented how? yes they are implemented by 'events' in python? so you have for example a prefocus in event for an entry widget that gets 'fired' before focus happens on an entry widget you can then call a 'trigger' when this event fires Oh, I see what you are saying, that would be at the form level wouldn't it it can be directly in the form or 'imported' from a repository (if you want reuse) blurr: yes all rules currently are at the form level blurr: yes BUT they can be in a shared repository the appserver will implement the rules on the server side i.e. the code doesnt have to be in the form itself but it's not ready yet appserver will have rules callable outside of a form but as jamest stated its not ready the problems I've found with implementing rules in the forms is that it's hard to verify and find inconsistencies blurr: you have lost me please don't take any of my comments as critism, I'm just trying to understand Action: derek notes client side triggers only are not optimal, but certainly usable derek: i've had multiple forms in the past in Oracle sql*forms that shared logic i think the 'shared' repository aspects speaks very much to the consistency problem it was a major PITA our importable repository (libraries) are a small attempt to address this as it lets you get similar principle as an 'application server' jamest: well in my case i wouldnt use 'shared' triggers i would uses shared libraries I see so say i write a routine to 'validate an account' so what language are the rules expressed in? i would just use that 'function/logic' over and over right not rewrite/cut paste for every form and thats what i assume you mean about 'consitency' yes, I understand yes and no language rules are expressed in python A business analyst can give you verbally a set of rules, when expressed formally you can find inconsistcies in this set of rules rules being spread out, all over the place seem to be both hard to verify and extract if need be follow? Dial-IN (~Dial-IN@CPE-144-137-200-230.sa.bigpond.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. hey no i dont if you logic is central, i dont see how its spread out i.e. from my understanding of shared repository with imports for the most part i think it gives most of the functionality of an application server wrt central rule base blurr: i think i follow what the problem domain is i think central importable repository speaks a bit to that problem and surely appserver will hi Dial-IN derek: Oh I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying that the rules were in the forms themselves ajmitch_ (~ajmitch@wlg1-port7.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all anyone alive? :) nope heya, i just read through an irc log of this channel back in march this year, wondering if someone could help me with getting apt-proxy working, nobody in #debian is answering, so i noticed that chillywilly got it working, i am getting the error "404 is not serviced by this server" dead to the world jcater: do you know of any inventory stuff that's been started with GNUe? :) Dial-IN: is this woody? derek: python is type-free right? and is it the security entry argh, have to run :( bbl Dial-IN? yup no hang on this is SID sorry is it only the security entry or all of them? its more than just the security entries oh and btw, what speeds are usual over a 100mb network? i get amazing speed for cached entries iirc I've see 1200+ K/sec for small files i'm not sure what's up with sid sigh but you've setup your /etc/apt-proxy/apt-proxy.conf file right? yes, to the best of my knowledge (I'm doing this from memory so I may butcher the file names) no thats correct let me log into work i hope i have set it up correctly ta #gnuenterprise: mode change '+o jamest' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. Topic changed on #gnuenterprise by jamest!~jamest@adsl-65-71-168-128.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net: 0.4.2 Forms, Designer, and Common are available! http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/current.php Dial-IN: ok here is 1 sample apt-proxy.conf entry add_backend /main/ \ $APT_PROXY_CACHE/debian/ \ http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ \ ftp.us.debian.org::debian/ \ ftp.de.debian.org::debian/ \ ftp2.de.debian.org::debian/ \ ftp.uk.debian.org::debian/ # http://debian.uchicago.edu/debian/ \ here is the entry that goes in /etc/apt/sources.list to link up to the above entry deb http://www.math.ksu.edu:9999/main woody main contrib non-free this proxy is blocked from the public btw :) there are issues w/ woody and security repository that may or may not be in sid the main thing is to change the apt-proxy.conf file to read add_backend /security/ \ $APT_PROXY_CACHE/security/ \ http://security.debian.org/ as the rsync setup in there by default sticks a bar in your fu hrmmmm if i sent/emailed you my apt-proxy.conf file, you able to go through and just make sure i have correctly done it? i am not very experienced sorry sure jamest@gnuenterprise.org i can't promise anything but I can try Action: jamest fiddles w/ apt-proxy just enough to get it working oooooo you're running a newer apt-proxy in sid i hope nothing's different Dial-IN: did you send? its been sent now, sorry, had to grab it off the server box did you uncomment the deb lines? ummm, i wasnt sposed to? nope those lines are examples for your /etc/apt/sources.list file sorry, i told you i was extremely unexperienced they need commented out in the apt-proxy.conf file no problems so i comment them out, is there anything else that is suspect? not obvious you did update your sources.list file right? the apt-proxy.conf file basically contains a line for each repository you want cached examplel add_backend /blackdown/ $APT_PROXY_CACHE/blackdown/ http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian/ tells the proxy to first try it's local store ($APT_PROXY_CACHE/blackdown/) then if not found there it trys http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/languages/java/linux/debian/ at least this is my understanding of it okay, it is working with the things commented out again, but it is extremely slow, and when it gets going, it runs at average of 35kb/s it sticks at waiting for file before downloading it for ages i have same issue at times wat no... wait, that is wrong i reverted to the old cache system, hang on testing again i've seen this with apt-proxy it sometimes seems that if you start/stop apt-get updates frequently it'll slow down the proxy server i think it's because it's trying to finish the initial update and blocking other requests but this is just a gut feeling I've found that waiting a bit and the speed is back also it'll be slow if the external site is slow also, apt-proxy is only usefull for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc client that pulls from it as it only pulls a local copy when the 1st machine is installing Dial-IN? okay, it downloaded half the files working with apt-proxy cache, but i cant import old cache files due to it giving an errot of command not found of apt-proxy and apt-proxy-import dpkg -L apt-proxy you should find that file in /usr/sbin and IIRC it must be ran as root Dial-IN: if you don't mind my asking, what's the apt-proxy setup for? how do you mean? this a home setup, for a biz, other? i'm just curious this is for a non profit organisation, Computerbank SA cool you guys should look at GNUe for internal stuff ?? Dial-IN: is it working? we were using a cache setup for the Vic branch, which ran at a max speed of 50kb/s for the past year or so, very annoying ummm, hang on.. the dpkg -L apt-proxy listed alot of directories and files with the name in it jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. dpkg -L apt-proxy | grep import was that supposed to make the apt-proxy command availible? no, just tell you were it was located where ok, now i am back Hey all. okay, found it, just looking for the correct command :) jamest: Aren't you supposed to be moving furniture, or avoiding the wrath of your wife or something? =) jbailey: I'm done ok, now to my question :) 0.4.2 was released