Action: jcater pops his knuckles
<jcater> time to get to work.....
<ajmitch> ok
<ajmitch> jcater: is it at all possible to be evil & do instant-commit on delete? :)
<jcater> not really
<ajmitch> hmm
<jcater> you are in a transaction to maintain integrity
<ajmitch> i know
<ajmitch> but rules are meant to be broken!
<ajmitch> :)
<jcater> what are you trying to do?
<ajmitch> i just want to avoid too much confusion when someone hits delete & nothing appears to change
<ajmitch> trying to make the UI to be as unsurprising to the user as possible
<ajmitch> commit-on-delete may not be a good thing, but i'm willing to try it out, if it's possible :)
<jcater> well, you can try with a trigger
<ajmitch> yeah
<jcater> but it seems to me you'd be bastardizing the behavior of forms, and that would confuse the user when moving from one app to another
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> that's just mho
<jcater> I think if it's a problem
<jcater> this is more like a config option
<jcater> hideDeletedRecords
<ajmitch> right
<ajmitch> i think jamest hinted at pending changes to be committed?
<ajmitch> wondering if i should play with gtk2 in head tonight
<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> I'm not sure :(
<jcater> I know he was refactoring the ui stuff
<jcater> and didn't want to commit it yet
<jcater> as it'd break a lot of stuff
<jcater> so I really don't know
<ajmitch> [16:32:12] <jamest> well, if you care to chase a moving target i can commit
<ajmitch> [16:32:18] <ajmitch> as soon as i'm actually able to install win95 :)
<ajmitch> [16:32:30] <jamest> but jason might hurt me
<ajmitch> yeah, he expected some violence to be committed
<jcater> lol
<jcater> inside joke
<jcater> I don't care if he commits or not
<ajmitch> :)
<jcater> actually
<jcater> he and I were debating on whether we were ready for 0.5.0 or not
<ajmitch> right, that's what i asked him too
<jcater> if we are, then he didn't want to commit that stuff, or we branch first and then he commits
<ajmitch> RSN
<ajmitch> isn't it easier to get all the breakage in one release?
<jcater> yes
<ajmitch> or will this not change terribly much?
<jcater> but
<jcater> well
<jcater> this won't break things for form designers
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> this will add new things
<ajmitch> project management is such fun :)
<ajmitch> new stuff is good
<ajmitch> he listed some of the new stuff, sounds fun
<jcater> we've done all/most of the breakage to the developer's api
<jcater> which is why we want to push 0.5.0 out the door
<ajmitch> yeah, i'm actually starting to understamd some of 0.4.x
<jcater> i.e., to get people using the "new way"
<ajmitch> now you change it all on me :)
<jcater> concepts still the same
<jcater> markup is more generalized
Action: jcater is 100% (+/- 15%) sure if you have a grasp of 0.4.x, it won't take an evening to understand 0.5.0
<ajmitch> is it possible to have optional elements that some drivers can ignore, like forms background colour, etc?
<jcater> we try really, really hard to avoid that
<jcater> really, really
<ajmitch> yeah, i know
<ajmitch> that's the problem with making a portable UI
<ajmitch> btw what's the best way to activate a report from within a form? :)
<ajmitch> triggers that hook into the reports stuff?
Action: ajmitch likes poking things to see where they break, or where they're limited :)
<jcater> probably
<ajmitch> ok
<jcater> we don't have a formal way to launch reports from forms yet
<jcater> there will be a runreport
<jcater> when there's reports to be run :)
<ajmitch> for small apps, i'm still going to need that bloody windows printing
<ajmitch> which will be a pain :)
Action: derek runs screaming
<derek> windows
<derek> printing
<derek> they dont belong in the same sentence
<derek> kind of like putting
<derek> donut and diet in the same sentence
<jcater> why?
<jcater> I consider myself to be on a donut diet
<jcater> and look where it got me!
Action: jcater rubs his belly
<jcater> something to be proud of, boy
<jcater> *burp*
<ajmitch> hehe
<ajmitch> derek: you just have to live with the fact that often people want to use windows :)
<jbailey> want?
<jbailey> I think it's rare that people *want* to use windows.
<jbailey> Captive, forced by circumstances.
<jbailey> randomness like that.
<ajmitch> :)
<jbailey> jcater: The vegan donuts aren't fried.
<jbailey> They're also nutritionally enhanced I think.
<jbailey> IIRC, there was b12 added. =)
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> dude
<jcater> take all the fun out of it
<jcater> why don't ya
<jbailey> No, dude!
<ajmitch> that's just sick
<jcater> that sounds almost like lean bacon
<jbailey> That means my wife can't complain when I'm eating donuts for breakfast!
<jcater> it's just inumane!
<jcater> lol
<jbailey> They're better for me than my life cerial!
<ajmitch> they're not real donuts!!
<jcater> ajmitch: well
<jcater> take enough of that now-legal pot
<jcater> and they may appear to be
<jbailey> =)
<jbailey> The US gov't has started their threats to Canada.
<jbailey> "Border cross will be more difficult"
<jcater> rock!
<jcater> does this mean we go to war w/Canada next???
<ajmitch> i think you'd need a substantial amount of pot to make those edible
<jcater> because we'll tire of iraq soon enough
<jbailey> Sure.  Your soldiers will come here.
<jbailey> We'll get them stoned.
<jcater> ajmitch: <jbailey> IIRC, there was b12 added. =)
Action: jcater thinks the smiley means that
<jcater> "b12 added" is code word
<jcater> :)
<jbailey> *lol*
Action: jbailey builds a new e2fsprogs for his hurd box.
<jbailey> Perhaps tomorrow I can get libdb4 and some of perl 5.8
<ajmitch> would be good
<ajmitch> looks like phil wants libdb4 :)
<ajmitch> spoke to him today, he wants some feedback before K1 goes out
<jbailey> Ah, I'm just writing a Debian-hurd status report. =)
Action: derek is away: food
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<ajmitch> hi psu
<psu> hi
Action: psu has logged in for an early morning trout-slapping
<jcater> psu!
<psu> Just had a "Doh!" moment
<psu> took the file for KC GNUe #59 to work, so I could finish it at lunctime
<ajmitch> and left it there?
<psu> and left it there...
<psu> So no KC this week until Monday when I can retrieve it
<jcater> no!!!!!
<jcater> but, but, but
<jcater> no!!!!!
Action: psu bows head & awaits a well-merited trout-slapping
<jcater> sigh
<ajmitch> NOOOOOO!
<jcater> you've been hanging around with us geeks for HOW long
Action: ajmitch twitches
<jcater> and don't have a ssh tunnel into your work computer?
Action: jcater holds head down in shame
<jcater> :)
Action: psu whimpers
<ajmitch> and/or vnc :)
<jcater> is this one another small one?
<jcater> the last two have been pretty small... I guess from the holiday absenses 
<jbailey> abstinence?
<psu> this one's a bit larger
<jbailey> I know people who've tried giving up sex for lent.
<jbailey> None of them enjoyed it.
<psu> After the issue that was 110k of hand-written XML source
<jbailey> hand-written?
<jbailey> You're not entering the items into a database in forms, and then using reports to get the XML?
<psu> I decided to take control, and just do one IRC thread a day unless I had time to do more
<jbailey> dogfood, man!
<psu> Now that arturas is on board (we're going group-authored)
<psu> that'll be two IRC threads a day
<psu> jbailey: I did suggest to jcater a designer plugin to write KCs, but he didn't seem that keen ;-)
<psu> Basically I called his bluff about Designer being "the emacs of GNUe" ;-)
<jcater> psu: I seem to recall thinking that was doable
<psu> jbailey: actually, the XML is mainly just the section headings, which are pretty standard
<jcater> just that I wouldn;t be doing it :)
<jbailey> Luvly.
<jcater> you need to do a Save as KC.... plugin for OpenOffice ;)
<jbailey> New e2fsck and my hurd box even boots.
<psu> heh
<psu> jcater: that would imply I would also need  PC that could take OpenOffice
<jcater> ah
<jcater> that could be a probelm
<jbailey> psu: What do you run?
<jbailey> (My pc takes openoffice and I still don't use it, soo... *g*)
<psu> Pentium II 266, but only 32MB RAM, which is the real barrier
<jbailey> Ouch
<jcater> oooooo
<jcater> then you can just edit the OpenOffice XML by hand
<jcater> then Save as KC
<jbailey> ajmitch: Seen my status update yet?  Think it will keep Philip Happy?
<jcater> err, 
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> :)
<jbailey> I still think he should do a master/detail form.
<jbailey> And then a report.
<ajmitch> jbailey: haven't read it
<ajmitch> yup!
<ajmitch> shouldn't be too hard
<jcater> nite
<psu> jbailey: actually, I have a design on paper somewhere for a GNUe-based weblog 
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<chillywilly> wat about xsl transform from OOo xml to KC xml eh?
<psu> to use ti update the www.gnuenterprise.org website
Nick change: jcater -> jcZzzzz
<jcZzzzz> (decided I wanted to log instead of close :)
<psu> All I need is an extra 50 hours in every day, and I could get it coded up quickly...
<jbailey> jcZzzzz: Helping psu log a third irc thread per day? =)
Action: chillywilly just watched spiderman movie
<jbailey> chillywilly: Did you like?
<jbailey> I did.
<chillywilly> yep
<jcZzzzz> oooo
<jcZzzzz> I love that movie
<chillywilly> it was grooovy
<jcZzzzz> especially when she's out in the rain
<jcZzzzz> with that white T-shirt
<ajmitch> psu: i'd imagine it'd be fairly easy to do a simple weblog
<chillywilly> heheh
<jcZzzzz> well, I'll go to bed smiling now :) .....
<chillywilly> hehe
<psu> ajmitch: yep. GNUe is arguably the wrong tool, but (to quote jbailey) dogfood.
<ajmitch> psu: a simple form, what would you need to track? 
<ajmitch> title, date, and details?
<jbailey> gnue to a remote database somewhere could also prevent it being left at work
Action: jbailey hides.
<psu> yep
<chillywilly> spiderman kicks much ass
<jbailey> How do you do the people links?
<ajmitch> yeah, i've used remote database (over 128kbps link)
<ajmitch> actually i've also used mysql & postgresql over dialup :)
<chillywilly> sicko
<ajmitch> works quite well - i evade my firewalling by using the VPN
<psu> jbailey: all the quotes are delimited by <quote who="Jeff Bailey"> & the XML (used to be perl)
<psu> does it all automagically
<jbailey> Ah, nice.
<chillywilly> perl....ugh
<jbailey> But that might be harder to get into the form properly
<ajmitch> shouldn't be
<ajmitch> have a dropdown with a list of names
<ajmitch> and the trigger for when you select one adds it into the main textentry :)
<jbailey> a dropdown mid sentence?
<ajmitch> no, separate from the text entry
<ajmitch> but on selecting, it adds the appropriate xml to the bit you're editing
<jbailey> Oh, I see.
<ajmitch> sorta like a toolbar, you could do the same with formatting :)
<ajmitch> like click a 'bold' button
Action: psu prefers his XML like his cigars
<chillywilly> that's enough out of youse guys
<ajmitch> chillywilly: excuse me?
<chillywilly> anynone want to play tetrinet? =)
<psu> lovingly hand-crafted and rolled on the thighs of a Cuban maiden...
<ajmitch> psu: i guess the last part doesn't happen often?
<psu> ajmitch: not ever, IIRC
<chillywilly> rolling them on the thighs of maidens?
<psu> and I'm hardly likely to forget something like that.
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> rolling xml on the thighs of a Cuban maiden...
<chillywilly> how the hell does that work?
<psu> new headquote - GNUe KC - no Cuban maidens were harmed in the making of this cousin
Action: chillywilly would prefer "utilized" ;)
<chillywilly> GNUe KC - no Cuban maidens were utilized in the making of this cousin
<psu> s/Cuban maidens/Cuban maidens' thighs
<chillywilly> er, don't forget the sad face :(
<chillywilly> ;)
<jbailey> GNUe Suthern KC - no cousins were used in the making of this here Cuban maiden!
<chillywilly> lol
<psu> hmm
<psu> "You know you're a redneck if your wife, mother and cousin add up to less than 3 people."
<ajmitch> s/utilized/utilised/
<ajmitch> better not mangle the language too far :)
<chillywilly> get your nose out of the queens arse
<jbailey> ajmitch: He's american.
<ajmitch> poor fella
<jbailey> ajmitch: They spell things with z's.
<chillywilly> yea and it kinda pisses ppl off that we have made english our own ;)
<chillywilly> and we do it our way
<chillywilly> damnit
<ajmitch> silly 'merkins
<chillywilly> silly kiwis
<chillywilly> silly candias
<chillywilly> silly brits
<chillywilly> silly hackers
<jbailey> The only kind!
<chillywilly> dicks are for chicks...uh...
<jbailey> candias?
<chillywilly> ;)
<jbailey> Is that like candida?
<jbailey> We prefer 'canuck'
<jbailey> =)
<chillywilly> yea that's the country north of here
<chillywilly> canadia
<chillywilly> jbailey: I thought that was a hockey team...
<chillywilly> hmmm, I wonder if we have some ice cream or something
<psu> hmmmmm - ice cream
Action: psu notes he hasnt had breakfast yet
<jbailey> Sure. =)
<psu> hey, this is the channel that invented /dcc-able 3 a.m. pizza...
<psu> dunno who invented 3.a.m pizza per se
<psu> Possibly the White House
<chillywilly> God of course
<psu> ISTR being told (possibly an urban legend)
<chillywilly> only he could make something so holy ;)
<psu> that best way to tell if an intenational crisis was brewing 
<chillywilly> mmmm, 3am pizaaa...uuuuuuhhhh
<psu> was to work in pizza parlours on Penn. Ave
<chillywilly> ya know food would be nice..
<psu> an watch the take-out orders for number 1600 shoot up whenever a Russian missile went missing etc.
<chillywilly> taco bell is open...
<psu> chillywilly: I see no link between those 2 statements ;-)
<chillywilly> they should deliver
<chillywilly> I am too lazy to leave the house
<chillywilly> psu: feh!
<chillywilly> damn, now I am getting real hungry
<ajmitch> stop talking about pizza!
Action: ajmitch is real hungry now
Action: psu 's evil mind games on chillywilly are working
Action: psu is away: breakfast - maybe a bacon sandwich?
Action: chillywilly has found some cinnamon rolls
Action: chillywilly heats them up a bit so they are oooey goooey
Action: jbailey is away: Zzzzzzz
<chillywilly> night
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<psu> btami: got your .exes by e-mail, thanks.
<psu> I'll check them out and upload them to the website later in the weekend
<psu> (btw, did I mention to anyone that I really, really need to get the website into CVS?
<psu> just once or twice?
<psu> )
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<Arturas> Hello
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<jamest> jbailey: how goes the html?
<jbailey> I wanted to chat with you to see how important perfect representation is.
<jbailey> I can't seem to get a perfect grid.
<jbailey> I think the problem is that all of the functions assume variable width fonts, so there's no reasonable way to get the information I need to do it.
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<jamest> Hmmmmm
<jamest> how badly off is it?
<jbailey> Lemme show you my sample page, just a sec.
<jamest> i'm going to be very choppy
<jbailey> That's fine.
<jamest> i'm drive by IRCing
<jbailey> I'm noit really hackign on gnue today
<jbailey> http://olympus.nisa.net/~jbailey/testlayout/
Action: derek is back (gone 09:22:09)
<jamest> ouch
<jamest> how hard would it be to have a function that translates the position into what you have now, or table coords
<jbailey> The probablem with the first one is that it doesn't allow for inter-character spacing.
<jbailey> The second one is the height of the character.
<jamest> i imagine that most the work is going to be dealing with form state and interaction with the backend
<jbailey> jamest: I don't think I can retrieve the font information.
<jamest> i don't think you can either
<jbailey> Oh, that's not what you asked.
<jamest> no
<jbailey> Like how hard is it to take the X and Y and make it into this?
<jamest> yeah
<jbailey> I'm using X and Y in both of those cases. =)
<jamest> no
<jamest> i'm not making sense
<jamest> right now you're doing direct placement right along the lines of pseudocode like
<jamest>   print label 1 at  x*whatTheBrowserThinksIsASingleCharWidth and y*yadaYadaCharHeight
<jamest> is that correct?
<jbailey> Yes.
<jamest> so how hard would it to seperate this renderer (i guess I'll call it that) from the logic dealing w/ passing data back and form state
<jamest> then the renderer would basically build the html and a single call like render.publish() would spit out the html 
<jamest> you could then use a different html table based renderer in place of this for the time being
<jamest> i was thinking phpforms did something with tables to handle layout
<jamest> i know it's not optimal 
<jamest> btw - i haven't looked at this, so I'm probably talking out my arse :)
<jbailey> If I understand the current renderers they get a series of calls to add widgets and then display their form, usually deferring that off to the toolkit, and then just invoke the display.  We can just buffer that, assuming that I can do some sort of class scope variable, or global variable.
<jbailey> The thing is, I don't see how you could do it with tables either.
<jbailey> Also with tables you lose any accessibility and PDA rendering you might've had.
<jbailey> (You might not have it anyway, given that label and form widgets aren't really associated)
<jbailey> I think if I could see a form that's done with tables, I could certainly figure it out with CSS>
<jbailey> Tables are just going to do it with pixels, and I can use those just as easy.
<derek> dhtml wont let you do layout?
<jbailey> derek: WHere did you get that impression?
<jbailey> I'm having trouble getting a monospace grid.
<jbailey> HTML's not tuned for that, since it's pretty rare that someone would want to do position on a monospace grid.
<jamest> derek: do you recall where jan put the phpforms demo
<jamest> he had it setup so you could pass it a form like the zipcode.gfd in the samepls
<jamest> and it rendered and was usable 
<derek> jbailey: the trick is demanding fixed width fonts
<jbailey> jamest: Thanks - if I can see a demo, I can work it out trivially from there.
<derek> jamest: unfortunatley no, i know know where the much less impressive (to me) jsforms lives
<jbailey> jamest: I have a suspicion that what he's done is assume based on the font size what the width and kerning will be and just used pixels.
<jbailey> Which is ugly, but I can do that too.
<derek> iirc the phpforms stuff was on his 'personal' machine which was not always connected to the net
<jamest> the phpforms was pretty impressive
<jamest> but i think he's working mainly on appserver now right?
<derek> for what its worth
<derek> phpforms is in cvs (iirc)
<jbailey> I can dig through that.
<jbailey> But it would be easiest to see the HTML output.
<jbailey> The php code has the output stuff interspersed with all of the calculation logic and stuff.  It's not pretty to read.
<jamest> um
<jamest> lemme check something
<jamest> oooo
<derek> gnue-public.log.04Oct2002:<siesel> btw. here a very simple example of phpforms layout: http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/gnue-forms.php.html
<derek> gnue-public.log.10Jun2002:<siesel> Chipaca: you can try out the database demo of phpforms at http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/phpforms/gnue-forms.php?c=demo2 if you want. But the database less mode still has some issues. I will look over it again.
<jamest> i'm fixing it now
<jamest> it didn't get reactivated after the crash
<derek> ah
<jbailey> jamest: Tx.
<jamest> sigh
<jamest> i've moved it back into his area
<jamest> but it's having issues that I don't have time to dig into at the moment
<jamest> http://www.gnuenterprise.org/~jan/phpforms/gnue-forms.php
<jamest> ok
<jamest> the simple demo works
<jamest> sorta :)
<jbailey> OMG That's fugly.
<jamest> what is?
<jamest> the source?
<jbailey> The HTML 
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<bunny> =)
<bunny> Meow
<jbailey> Heya Alex.
<bunny> hi jeffy =)
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<derek> hmmm gtetrinet?
<jamest> derek yesterday someone was looking for gnue financials
<jamest> i told them about gnue-sb and papo
<derek> yummy
<jamest> but I dont know the status of either of those
<jamest> is gnue-sb in cvs yet and usable?
<derek> gnue-sb has item management and works against 0.4.x series
<derek> it also has contact addressbook
<derek> im getting ready to tag
<derek> (and possibly release)
Action: bunny is away: tetrinetting get me if you can >=) lemme see that ass of urs close enough to kick it ;) 
<derek> and convert to 0.5.0 series
<derek> and write navigator screens and reports
Action: bunny is away: tetrinetting get me if you can >=) lemme see that ass of urs close enough to kick it ;) server: gandalf.libertyetech.com
<bunny> derek: ? tetrinett game? or just there to see my pretty face :D ?
<derek> anyone hear listen to shakira?
<bunny> lol
<bunny> my roomie does
Action: derek has a youth wanted a compilation cd and im confused
<derek> they asked for
<derek> suerte, whenever whereever, objection
<Vee2d2> ahh..
<derek> but if i search for suerte
<derek> it comes back
<Vee2d2>        ERROR:  Relation "contact" does not exist
<derek> as whenever wherever (suerte - english)
<Vee2d2> ERROR:  Type "datetime" does not exist
<bunny> gnutella ?
<Vee2d2> bug in the schema?
<bunny> ah
<derek> so is suerte the 'spanish' version of whenever where ever?
<derek> yeah gnutella
<bunny> yes
<bunny> it is
<derek> Vee2d2: did you create the tables?
<bunny> derek: suerte is the spanish version of whenever bla bla
<derek> bunny: guess i will just have to search longer to find the spanish version
<bunny> why?
Action: derek is clueless.... i have never heard shakira only seen a picture of her
<bunny> i told you i have the cd
<jbailey> jamest: I'm not sure I could produce that fugly table layout without throwing myself from the CN tower after.
<derek> bunny: because i can only find the english version :)
<bunny> so i could let you have it
<Vee2d2> derek: it seems this col type should be 'timestamp' not 'datetime'
<derek> oh if you .ogg or mp3 of it let me know
<bunny> after the terinet game!!?!?!
<jamest> jbailey: that's ok as long as you commit the code before you jump
<derek> its about only thing on the 'list' i havent been able to find
Action: bunny jumps to jbailey
<derek> what column
<derek> Vee2d2: i need to gtetrinet for a media file swamp brb :)
<Vee2d2> np =)
<Vee2d2> I guess this is a gsd-to-sql issue
<jbailey> jamest: There's got to be a better way.
<jbailey> HAving a table cell for every *Character* on the screen is just bad.
<jbailey> And a blank character in each. =(
<Vee2d2> my contact table didnt get created because the created_on and modified_on cols in the schema specify they're type 'datetime' which doesnt appear to be valid to postgres.. 
<jamest> i think that's timestamp in postgresql
<Vee2d2> think so, too
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<derek> sigh
Action: Vee2d2 slides the donuts over
<derek> what version of postgres
<derek> as it works here
<derek> i use postgres
<Vee2d2> Version: 7.3rel-8
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<Vee2d2> latest greatest in sid
<derek> hmmm
<bunny> that was an easy kill
<Vee2d2> s/datetime/timestamp/
<derek> Vee2d2: its not that simple
<Vee2d2> it's not?
<derek> what table what column?
<derek> so i can research
<Vee2d2> contact table, the created_on and modified_on cols for starters
<Vee2d2> but anything where you need a timestamp I would imagine
<derek> gnue_sb=# \d contact
<derek>  contact_id  | bigint                      | not null default nextval('contact_contact_id_seq'::text)
<derek>  first_name  | character varying(40)       | 
<derek>  last_name   | character varying(40)       | 
<derek>  middle_name | character varying(30)       | 
<derek>  active      | character varying(1)        | 
<derek>  created_on  | timestamp without time zone | default now()
<derek>  created_by  | bigint                      | 
<derek>  modified_on | timestamp without time zone | default now()
<derek>  modified_by | bigint                      | 
<derek> gnue_sb=# 
<derek> look like timestamps to me
<derek> grrr
<derek> blame jcater for this one
<Vee2d2> mine too, now.. however in the gnue-sb/schema/PgSQL dir have a look at the .sql file
<derek> the .sql file has datetime
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<derek> jcater modified the 'schema tool'
<derek> i recreated the .sql file off it
<derek> and committed
Action: derek knows better now
<chillywilly> hi derek
<derek> you will have to talk to jcater so that he can fix it
<derek> as the xml source is clearly timestamp
<derek>    <field name="created_on" type="timestamp" nullable="Y" defaultwith="timestamp"/>
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<Vee2d2> datetime is a mysqlism I think
<derek> jcater: if you arise and are around can you take a look at the postgres conversion routines in schema
<derek> Vee2d2: yes thats what happened
<derek> he added mysql and oracle support
<derek> and somewhere the 'flag' probably was not switched correctly (or i ran the program wrong)
<jcater> sigh
<chillywilly> hey ppl
<jcater> that's a "feature" not a bug
<chillywilly> hi hi hi
<jcater> <snicker>
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<chillywilly> ello Jens2
<jcater> chillywilly: word
<Jens2> Hi!
<derek> undocumented features rock1
<chillywilly> whiiiiiiireeeed up homies
<bunny> chillywilly: !!!
<bunny> tetrinet me ;)
<bunny> chillywilly: and how are you ? and hows the family?
<chillywilly> hey girly
<chillywilly> everyone is good
<bunny> hey cutey
<chillywilly> thanks
<bunny> nice to read
<Vee2d2> hmm.. I need to go fix my phone lines.. must have a wire crossed somewhere it's holding the line open.. =/
<Vee2d2> cool.. 
<Vee2d2> I'm curious, if I were using the navigator would I need to continually login to the db each time I changed forms?
<Vee2d2> or would the navigator keep the db session persistent amongst the forms?
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<chillywilly> geeze nothing like your whole team bailing on you
<bunny> lol
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<derek> any sysadmins here?
Action: derek is looking for an easy way to find any files over a 1 meg on a system
<Mr_You> uggh
<Mr_You> my dash key is broke so substitute dashes
<derek> du is looking correct
<Mr_You> find ./ size +1c IIRC
<derek> but need more tricks
<Mr_You> something like that
<Mr_You> minus IIRC
<derek> i dont have 'size' 
<derek> ah do on that box
<derek> hm doesnt seem to work
<derek> just lists lots of files
<Mr_You> oh
<derek> which are less than 1m
<Mr_You> you want: find ./ size +1000000c
<Mr_You> c designates bytes
<derek> still lists the world
<Mr_You> omitting uses blocks
<Mr_You> duh
<Mr_You> hmm no thats 1MB 
<jcater> find . -size +1024K
<Mr_You> freebsd don't like that
<jcater> (sorry, lower case k)
<Mr_You> maybe they are different
<jcater> yeah
<Mr_You> well there ya go
<derek> ah much better
Action: derek hugs the #gnuenterprise channel
<derek> i _knew_ there had to be some big arse file out there i was missing
<derek> sure enough a double sermon wav file in /root/temp/
<derek> from AGES ago
<derek> back when i only had things working as 'root'
<derek> for music mixing and crud
<derek> finally some liberated disk space
<jcater> ooooo
<jcater> one thing I do occasionally
<jcater> when my home dir is way too full for some reason
<jcater> du -c -b | sort -n -r
<jcater> pipe that to a file
<derek> sort grrr i knew i was being stupid
<derek> i was using du just was trying to find a way to how somethign was bigger than
<derek> x
<derek> when i really meant was i want to see big crap
<derek> and a sort would have done that :)
<derek> sigh, my wife made triple batch of chocolate chip cookies
<derek> i think im gonna barf
Action: derek notes stomach fills after first two dozen, third dozen wants to come back up
<jcater> uggh
<jcater> that's a lot of cookies
Action: drochaid is back (gone 00:33:36)
<derek> jcater: there's a lot of me :)
<Vee2d2> lot more, now
<Vee2d2> =)
Action: Vee2d2 is a cookie monster, too
Action: Vee2d2 ponders how to work his current part numbering system into gnue_sb
<Vee2d2> I use an alpha character to designate the item's family (a=aprons, b=bags, c=caps/headwear, ... etc), then 2 digits to specify the mfg of the item (01=hanes, 02=lee, 03=gildan, etc..) then 2 digits to specify the product that this mfg makes in this family.. then 2 digits to specify the color, and 2 digits to specify the size.. so a finished # might look like S.12.43.25.01.09 
<ajmitch> hi
<Vee2d2> er.. that's too many numbers.. 
<Vee2d2> S.12.43.01.09
<jcater> wouldn't that qualify as your "sku" ??
<Vee2d2> Family.Mfg.Prod.Color.Size
<Vee2d2> yes
<Vee2d2> drop the color and size and it's what I use for model/part/product/whatever numbers
<Vee2d2> I spent a lot of time working it out.. it works pretty well as it's (very) highly unlikely I'll ever have more than 99 products from a family from a mfg.. caps are the closest and I dont think I have more than 30 or 40 styles from any given mfg there
<Vee2d2> s/from a family from a mfg/of a family of product from the same mfg/
<Vee2d2> guess it doesnt matter much here, I just enter them into the SKU field and setup the families into the Category lookup.. What is the Source field suppose to be for, indentify supplier(s)?
<jcater> your gonna have to hit derek up for those details
<jcater> hey, derek!
<jcater> you need to doc your table structures :)
<Vee2d2> yes. =)
<Vee2d2> and Old SKU
<Vee2d2> =)
<Vee2d2> and I assume Description is meant to be a very brief summary leaving Abstract to fully detail the product. Is there a specific reason Description is set to ALL CAPS?
<Vee2d2> *sigh* I wanna work on this, but I'm being called to go take my bath and get cleaned up for a night of social bugging.. 
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<derek> i will document more as there is more
<derek> as to the partnumber thing
<derek> category was one thing
<derek> and now im moving towards 'multiple' categories
<derek> that build a 'number'
<derek> so you have say 5 categories
<derek> and they can 'append' to create a number
<derek> so you have 4 categories
<derek> and one number
<derek> and its
<derek> cat1+cat2+cat3+cat4+number
<derek> to give you a 'smart part number'
<derek> you can use as few or as many of the cat numbers as you like
<derek> but thats after i convert to 0.5.0 i think
Action: derek is away: junction boys
Action: derek needs wireless bad
<ajmitch> typical derek :)
<ajmitch> come in, flood us, then leave ;)
<derek> anyone know how to get a US Robitics wireless to work reliably let me know
<derek> USR 2410
<ajmitch> ask in #wireless? :)
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<minddog> heyas
<ajmitch> hi
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<ajmitch> hi chillywilly
<chillywilly> ello
<chillywilly> hmmm, galeon-snapshot is b0rked now
<minddog> man if only compiling pnet on windows was faster
Action: ajmitch wonders what brings minddog to #gnuenterprise :)
<minddog> im interested !!
<minddog> tell me something 
<ajmitch> gnue rocks
<ajmitch> what else? :)
<minddog> how bout a happy story this time
<minddog> wait i wanna tell one
<ajmitch> you know what gnue is, right?
<minddog> yeah ;)
<minddog> there once was a guy named bill
<minddog> he had a to sneeze, but had no tissues
Action: ajmitch yawns
<minddog> so he blew is sneeze out the windows
<minddog> everyone got sick and needed a cure
<minddog> wait thats not ahappy story
Action: minddog looks at his other monitor...
<minddog> =/
<chillywilly> dork
<minddog> why do programmers get halloween and christmas confused
<chillywilly> they don't
<minddog> 31 OCT == 25 DEC
<ajmitch> can someone kick minddog for *extremely* bad jokes? :)
<chillywilly> yes plz
<minddog> ;)
<minddog> i'm waitin for a compile to finish just killin time
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--- Sun Dec 15 2002