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<psu> 0.5.0 pre-releases now on the website for testing
<btami> good morning
<psu> hi btami
<psu> at the moment, it seems as fast as we get the win .exes up, there's a new release ;-)
<btami> :)
<reinhard> good morning all
<reinhard> just curious
<reinhard> why is it common 0.4.4 and not 0.5.0?
<ajmitch> no major changes
<ajmitch> i guess
<Mr_You> psu: no joke
<psu> Feature plans are now linked to from the front page
<psu> I will have a go at a feature plan for the website RSN
<psu> basically a combination of the outstanding tasks in DCL 
<psu> plus a few other things in my head atm
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<ra3vat> hi gav
<gav> hi
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<laurie> any vnc users know why debian xvncviewer would start all of a sudden not accept 'tight' as a protocol?
<laurie> i.e. xvncviewer -encoding "tight copyrect" machine name works
<laurie> but is slow
<laurie> and on closing a session it saws "tight is not a valid encoding"
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<laurie> ah
<laurie> looking for you
Nick change: laurie -> derek
<derek> <laurie> any vnc users know why debian xvncviewer would start all of a sudden not accept 'tight' as a protocol?
<derek> <laurie> i.e. xvncviewer -encoding "tight copyrect" machine name works
<derek> <laurie> but is slow
<derek> <laurie> and on closing a session it saws "tight is not a valid encoding"
<derek> btw: sorry for running off last night... darn wireless failed
<jcater> oooooo
<jcater> my coworker noticed this yesterday
<jcater> you on unstable?
<derek> left card in and came back and seems it was intermittent all night
<derek> yeah unstable
Action: jcater thinks they separated tightvnc and non-tightvnc servers
<jcater> do an apt-cache search tightvnc
Action: derek is using client only
<derek> ok
<jcater> tightvncserver
<derek> will do
<Vee2d2> xtightvncviewer - Virtual network computing client software for X
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Action: derek wonders why in some respects
<derek> but more importantly i wonder if they emailed peopel with vnc
<derek> i.e. sometimes debhelper emails system admin stuff like that
Action: derek sheepishly admits since my connection is down and i havent been using normal mail client i hvaent been checking system messages
<derek> gack
<derek> im so blind w/o my glasses icant sit at my laptop and read my 20 in monitor from 3 feet away :(
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<Vee2d2> yay new KC.. 
<Vee2d2> er not.. 404.. 
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<memmett> new KC is up.
<memmett> http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/latest.html
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<Vee2d2> that's still the old one?
<s173919> hi
<Vee2d2> howdy
Nick change: s173919 -> lupo
<lupo> :)
<Vee2d2> Not Found
<Vee2d2> The requested URL /GNUe/gnue20021214_59.html was not found on this server.
<lupo> http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20021214_59.html works for me
<Vee2d2> interesting..
<Vee2d2> it's most definately not working here.. =)
<memmett> odd
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<Arturas> Hello
<Vee2d2> howdy
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<derek> hmm jcater still not back
<jcater> yeah
<jcater> query derek
<lupo> what an encounter
<Vee2d2> does anyone else not get the new KC?
<jcater> I got it this AM
<jcater> http://kt.zork.net/GNUe/gnue20021214_59.html
<Vee2d2> Not Found
<Vee2d2> The requested URL /GNUe/gnue20021214_59.html was not found on this server.
Action: Vee2d2 thinks #gnuenterprise is pulling his leg
<memmett> Vee2d2: are you behind some funky proxy or something?
<Vee2d2> could be my isp I guess.. 
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<memmett> try telneting!
<Vee2d2> ok.. it works from a remote machine. 
<Vee2d2> @!#$% isp
<Vee2d2> that's messed up
<jcater> psu / Arturas: congrats on the first team-edited Kernel Cousin
<jcater> it came out well
<derek>  i got it just now
<Arturas> thank you :) but it was psu who did all the job :)
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<Arturas> bye
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<jcater> http://www.debianplanet.org/node.php?id=880
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<Vee2d2> man, I cant believe I just did that again.. writing a doc in openoffice and want to see what it might look like printed so I do a print preview.. then when finished I do a File->Close and poof, doc be gone.. didnt bother saving it while working on it either.. =/
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<Thrugooy> hi
<Vee2d2> howdy
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<jcater> bugger
<jcater> you need an electrifying keyboard
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<jcater> so you can do a Pavlovian behavior modification system
<jcater> File | Save... <Bzzzzzzz>
<jcater> Ouch! Oh, yeah.... better save my file
<jcater> err, I meant File | Close....
<jcater> :)
Action: jcater shuts up now
<ajmitch> morning
<jcater> morning
Action: Vee2d2 toggles autosave
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<jbailey> jcater: Wow.  What's the timeframe to 0.5.0?
<jcater> depends on how it tests out
<jcater> no one bitches about it
<jcater> as soon as tonight or tomorrow
<jbailey> Okay, so there's no real value in me making packages yet.
<Vee2d2> I noticed that there's a few of those 'funky' triggers used in gnue-sb
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<jcater> Vee2d2: I think revDeke plans to branch (or at least tag) gnue-sb's cvs before upgrading his forms to 0.5.0
<Vee2d2> has anyone worked on a roadmap for that (gnue-sb) ?
Action: jcater pokes revDeke with a stick
<revDeke> yes i have worked on one
<revDeke> i cant release from here
<revDeke> will you be around at end of week?
<revDeke> i hope to get some stuff done :(
<revDeke> but i will be gone for a week
<revDeke> i plan to maybe get some work done during that time
<Vee2d2> mm.. the holidays.. 
Action: jcater really wants to port his PoS stuff to GNUe-SB
<jcater> at some point in the not-so-distant future
<revDeke> can you wait until the first of the year
<jcater> rofl
Action: Vee2d2 really wants to find a spot he can fit into that project
<jcater> as if I'd have time before then :)
<revDeke> so we can be in sync :)
<jcater> Vee2d2: we want you to as well
<jcater> :)
<revDeke> is the schema tool fixed jcater?
<jcater> define "fixed"
<jcater> it can't have babies
<Vee2d2> heh
<revDeke> if so Vee2d2 i can put you to work by recreating the sql files
<revDeke> and emailing to me
<revDeke> and i will apply
<jcater> it supports fields, indexes, primary keys, unique constraints, and sequences
<jcater> and has scripters for Postgres and Oracle
<jcater> it does not do data yet
<revDeke> right but as of that change
<revDeke> it made postgres timestamps datetimes 
<jcater> nor foreign key constraints
<Vee2d2> I saw the comit for that fix
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<revDeke> which isnt valid
<jcater> yeah, that's been fixed
<revDeke> ok
<revDeke> Vee2d2: if you can rerun the tool for oracle and postgres to create new .sql files
<revDeke> and emal them to me i will apply tonight
<revDeke> and then likely will tag
<revDeke> and start the 0.5.0 conversion
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Action: jcater really wants to tie RentFree into GNUe-SB too
Action: jcater is really interested in the gl/ap parts of it
<jcater> so maybe we can align goals
<jcater> so I could be working towards one part while you do other
<jcater> as I know gl/ap wasn't at the top of your needs list
<revDeke> i agree 100%
<revDeke> thats why i want to fully feature plan gnue-sb
<revDeke> i plan to break it into 'segments'
<revDeke> like contact management
<revDeke> inventory
<revDeke> product managemetn
<revDeke> etc etc etc
<revDeke> each with own 'plan'
<revDeke> hopefully multiple people will be working on it, with different people doing different parts
<revDeke> but all parts aligned
<revDeke> i had started a plan but i dont have way to get to it from here right this minute
<jbailey> jcater: PoS?
<jbailey> Oh.
<jbailey> Point of sale.
<jbailey> I'm used to that meaning Piece of Shit. =)
<V_laptop> sometimes they're one in the same.. =/
<jcater> sometimes?
<jcater> more like most of the time
<jcater> that was an experience I won't go into here
<jcater> trying to find a PoS for the bookstore
<jcater> sheesh
<ajmitch> jcater: quick question.... ;)
<ajmitch> using runForm() in 0.4.3, pops up a login dialog, even tho both forms use same datasource
<jcater> you mean the same connection?
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> how bizarre
<ajmitch> i'll convert them all to 0.5.0 stuff & test with that soon
<jcater> runForm may be broken in 0.5.0 due to internal changes... but sure
<jcater> need to ask jbailey
<jcater> sigh
<jcater> damn tab-completion
<jcater> need to ask jamest_
<jcater> you could ask jbailey, but I doubt he's programmed on the runform stuff :)_
<ajmitch> uh oh
Action: ajmitch would sorta like it to work nicely :)
<ajmitch> perhaps i'll look into the forms code :)
<jbailey> What's that?
<ajmitch> jbailey!!
<jbailey> ajmitch!!
<ajmitch> whaddup?
<jbailey> (I'm mostly in other window)
<ajmitch> k
<jbailey> Dunno - I noticed this tab was blue.
<ajmitch> jcater here thinks you use runForm a bit for stuff?
<jcater> blue tab?
<jcater> don't they have medicine for that?
<jbailey> ajmitch: Hmmm..  I could look.
<jcater> must be that darn vegan diet
<jcater> turns the poor boy blue
<ajmitch> i know revDeke wanted it to be working
<jbailey> jcater: Xchat turns the tab red when there's unseen conversation, and blue when someone says your nick.
<jcater> derek wanted what to be working?
<ajmitch> jcater: yeah, runForm is broken in HEAD CVS
<ajmitch> i think :)
<jcater> I'm pretty sure it is
<ajmitch> damn
Action: ajmitch swears
<ajmitch> tho it did also popup a login dialog before dying
<jamest_> yeah
<jamest_> the runform code was removed by me
<jamest_> for a moment
<ajmitch> bad jamest_ :)
<jcater> it's all good
Action: revDeke thinks all the whinning about security on the list irrated jamest
<revDeke> so he figured after every key press asking for credentials might sooth some people wanting more security ;)
<revDeke> jcater thought that to be a little too invasive so they agreed to only ask if you switched tabs or ran a new form instead
<revDeke> yeah thats the ticket ;)
<ajmitch> ugh
<ajmitch> ok, since i'm dealing with a small group of potentially idiot users, how do i stop that login dialog coming up altogether? (save db name/pass somewhere) :)
<jcater> 1. you could do a .netrc file
<jcater> 2. you can add username= / password= to your connections.conf file
<ajmitch> ah
<jcater> 3. ???/
<jcater> there is a 3
<jcater> but I forget it
<jamest_> 3. you could avoid connecting to a database at all thus preventing idiot users from poluting your data
<jcater> there ya go
<ajmitch> 2 works fine
<ajmitch> ooh nice
<ajmitch> thanks
<jcater> we aim to please
<jcater> well, not really
<jcater> but you're welcome anyway
<ajmitch> :)
<ajmitch> hmmmm
<ajmitch> bad behaviour - closing the window with unsaved changes doesn't warn the user
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Action: ajmitch also needs to get the dropdowns to refresh somehow when he edits the data in a subform :)
<ajmitch> at the moment, f8,f9 gives me a screen, and an hourglass/watch cursor over the dropdown (all with 0.4.3)
Action: ajmitch stops his complaining
Action: ajmitch sees
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<revDeke> ajmitch: there is a 'function' to do this
<revDeke> i currently do it on commit
<revDeke> to refresh dropdowns
<revDeke> if you look in the item_category gfd you will see a trigger that does it
<ajmitch> ok
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<KeithJagrs> :)
<Vee2d2> psu: hehe.. I like your newer solution to the spam-proof email addresses on the contributors page
<Vee2d2> erp he left
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<jcater> doh
<jcater> wrong button
<Vee2d2> heh
<V_laptop> xchat and the one next to the docking button?
<V_laptop> 619 packages upgraded, 68 newly installed, 14 to remove and 4  not upgraded.
<V_laptop> Guess it's been a while since I've updated the ol' laptop
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<ajmitch> a little while, i'd say
<jcater> ajmitch: runform should work in cvs head now
<jbailey> Did you branch on the prerelease, or are you waiting for the final release?
<jcater> we won't branch
<jbailey> Really?
<jbailey> Why not this time?
<ajmitch> because 0.5.x is not going to have major breakage
<jbailey> Ah, okay.
<jbailey> I thought there were still some invasive changes planed for 0.6.x
<jamest> i seriously doubt you'll see bugfix releases
<jcater> 0.5.x is a heavily-development oriented release
<jbailey> Hmm.
<jbailey> What should I do for the packaging?
<jcater> 0.5.1 won't be a bugfix of 0.5.0, but more implementation of our 0.5.x feature list
<jamest> 0.4.x IMHO is best for release to general users
<jamest> jcater?
<jcater> probably so
<jamest> i would love to get people on 0.5.x but it's not realistic for real work
<jamest> not that the code is unstable, just things are changing rapidly
<jcater> ********
<jcater> New round of prereleases at
<jcater>   http://www.gnuenterprise.org/downloads/prereleases.php
<jcater> This round includes Reports 0.1.1.
<jcater> Main changes: 
<jcater>   forms - support for runForm
<jcater>   designer - fix for report wizards, improved event mapping
<jcater>   reports - updates needed for designer
<jcater> ********
<jbailey> jamest: Okay, I'll stick to the 0.4.x releases for now.
<jbailey> I have to hack a bit on the packaging to get some sensible defaults in anyway.
<jbailey> It seems that gnue doesn't cope gracefully with an empty /etc/gnue
<jbailey> So Derek filed bugs. =)
<jamest> it doesn't?
<jamest> that's a gnue bug 
<jamest> i would think
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<SachaS> SPEAKON
<Vee2d2> howdy
Action: SachaS installed festival perl plugin for xchat :) now I hear what people type :)
<SachaS> hi Vee2d2
<Vee2d2> I dont think I want to do that knowing some conversations I have in other channels and the kiddos keep coming in here. =)
<SachaS> :)
<SachaS> works fine
<SachaS> gtg
<SachaS> bye
<Vee2d2> later
<SachaS> keep hacking up gnue
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<chillywilly> suuup dawgs
<chillywilly> what it be?
<jcater> werd, g
<jcater> you be rockin the pre's?
Action: ajmitch swears
<jcater> that's not very nice
<ajmitch> i've got to get something finished by tomorrow morning
<chillywilly> get to work kiwi boy
<chillywilly> I dun be rockin' nothin'
<chillywilly> I just got home from work about 10 mins ago or so
<chillywilly> I feel like rockin' my head to the pillow
<Vee2d2> ho hum.. 
<Vee2d2> jcater: is the bookstore your 9to5 or do you work another job?
<jcater> it's my wife's 9 to 5
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<dhaawod> anyone here who is worked on TRENDS or Space Time research product
<Vee2d2> hmm
<dhaawod> im wanting to put a database to collect data for time series analysis in different sectors
<dhaawod> data collection format can change fiat as well as time series reports later
<dhaawod> your experience is valuable. if you share
<dhaawod> problem is i dont know what is the solution for my problem.. or the product also
<dhaawod> right now im using microsoft excel 2000 for raw data input, database and analysis and DTP
<dhaawod> it's been 20 years now. and now it's very cumbersome.. especially in the face of dyanmic policy in terms of information requirements and rapid change
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<dhaawod> is anyone have experience in developing economic database
<derek> define economic databases
Action: derek deals with government financials daily
<dhaawod> database of economic data. money and banking and bop statistics
<derek> and has to do some stuff to calculate projected sales tax revenue based on economic stats
<derek> daily have to work with capital project forecasting in planning
<derek> but i dont consider myself an 'economics' person 
<dhaawod> i have done some research and found census bureau's use TRENDS and a product from space time research australia.. str.com.au
<dhaawod> so to find the merits of choosing between them and a relational database system
<derek> yeah we do lots of 'trend' work
<derek> generally for trending or forecasting
<derek> OLAP - OnLine Analytical Processing engines are nice
<derek> as they have lots of built in functions (BiFs)
<dhaawod> ok. im making notes
<derek> and allow you to 'model' scenarios
<dhaawod> problem is my raw data changes and reporting requirements also change a lot
Action: derek thinks you can do similar things relationally if you do a little planning as well
Action: derek uses OLAP daily and while I see its power, i still prefer relational
<dhaawod> ok
<derek> as people generally dont use the 'power' of OLAP enough to make it worth the extra effort
<derek> if they did, i think it has advantages for real time analysis
<derek> what i find is most accountants dont do real time analysis
<derek> they want oodles and oodles of reports
<derek> to use to make decisions
<dhaawod> and analyse paper?
<derek> in which case i thinmk RDBMS are better
<derek> yeah
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<derek> this has to be the funniest thing i have ever seen
<derek> MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES.  Get 2 months FREE*.
<dhaawod> im particularly interested in what the Fed uses
<derek> s/ELIMINATE/SPREAD and it might be a true statement ;)
<Vee2d2> hehe
Action: derek doesnt know what the feds use
<derek> knowing them an 400 million dollar abacus
<Vee2d2> several of them, gotta have archives. =)
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<dhaawod> ok
<derek> Vee2d2: no silly the abacus was 400 million and the abacus support contract was 2 billion for 10 years
<dhaawod> the BEA?
<derek> and it guarantee's 99.99999 abacus up time
<Vee2d2> ahh.. =)
<dhaawod> bea.gov
<derek> just dont tell that george bush senior is the primary stake holder in abacusinc.com the contractor
<derek> you want an 'on the ball' BEA
<derek> http://www.cpb.nl/nl/pub/discussie/13/
<derek> one that actually is looking at open source ecomonic impact
<dhaawod> i've found the ESA's organization chart.. no docs on IT strategy though
<dhaawod> microsoft
<dhaawod> has got the world bank on it's ms/sql clients list though :D
--- Wed Dec 18 2002