jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-247.client.insightBB.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jcater@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: wimp :P hmmm. gnome 2 runs better on my meager laptop with anti-aliasing turned off Action: ajmitch sells his soul Action: Vee2d2 puts it in the box with the other trinkets ajmitch: ? psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise. how do, psu fine p s u reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" woo.. I've just been informed we're going to the casinos again this saturday.. =) alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) joined #gnuenterprise. howdy ColeMarcus (~ColeMarcu@pD950FD15.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@81.98.44.42) left #gnuenterprise. ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-49.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) got netsplit. memmett (~user@sputnik.emmett.ca) got netsplit. Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-54.jet.net.nz) got netsplit. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port36.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) got netsplit. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) got netsplit. minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) got netsplit. ColeMarcus (~ColeMarcu@pD950FD15.dip.t-dialin.net) got netsplit. reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) got netsplit. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) got netsplit. grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) got netsplit. mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) got netsplit. Mr_You (rouzer@209-166-213-2.walrus.com) got netsplit. wee reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) returned to #gnuenterprise. Mr_You (rouzer@209-166-213-2.walrus.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. mdean (~mdean@mkc-65-28-72-76.kc.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. ra3vat (~ds@ics.elcom.ru) returned to #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) returned to #gnuenterprise. minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-54.jet.net.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. ajmitch (~me@wlg1-port36.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. memmett (~user@sputnik.emmett.ca) returned to #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) joined #gnuenterprise. ColeMarcus (~ColeMarcu@pD950FD15.dip.t-dialin.net) got lost in the net-split. ColeMarcus (~ColeMarcu@pD950FD15.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). ColeMarcu (ColeMarcus@p5080532E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) joined #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) left irc: "Client Exiting" eeek fonts are truly massive on windows with wx I wish there were a way to adjust the size of the coloumns in the ui, like the properties dialog in the designer.. because many of the labels dont quite fit right at the mercy of the system's fonts I guess. yup ColeMarcus (~ColeMarcu@pD950FD15.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all Action: Vee2d2 sees btami got his commits going hehe hi btami thanks to ajmitch, ra3vat and jamest hi ajmitch just gcvs is eating my commit messages hello btami, glad you there :) ssh -ing on woody is much easier then on win i'v failed at home, but here (on woody) everything was easy Action: btami is away: work lupo (~s173919@wrzx92.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de) joined #gnuenterprise. huhu lupo (~s173919@wrzx92.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1" btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: ariel_ (~ariel@ppp-217-133-243-49.dialup.tiscali.it) left irc: "Uscita dal client" Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) left irc: "I'm too lame to make a quit message" jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" Action: drochaid_ is back (gone 08:26:40) alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) joined #gnuenterprise. KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise. alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) left irc: "Client Exiting" KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) left irc: "later" whoa Action: jamest just did a line count check of .py files in gnue 89981 total t00t that can't be right i guess it is jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dude is that a vague count of whatever lies within the files or do your omit counting things like comments? morning kc erp jcater wc -l `find . -name "*.py"` gives that result jcater: 89981 total lines in .py files pressing all those returns in the middle of each file really help get our counts up didn't it :) lol what about or course after the 0.6.0 cleanup will probably have about 1500 :) Action: jcater thinks you need to add : grep -v "if dneighbo:" cat $(find . -name "*.py*") | grep -v "^$" | wc I would say add grep -v '^[ ]*#' to that but that assumes we add comments to our code ;) lately i read about a tool called sccl or like that johannes_ (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) source code count lines blech my shell keeps puking on the stuff I'm trying and I really don't have time to putz with this now i was just midly curious about an overall line count SLOCC was written in Microsoft Access Basic. oops i don't think i read about _that_ kind of stuff ;-) http://www.dwheeler.com/sloccount/ is the one maybe nevermind SLOC Directory SLOC-by-Language (Sorted) 16937 common python=16486,sh=390,php=61 8928 designer python=8889,sh=39 6138 forms python=6099,sh=39 4193 appserver python=4140,sh=53 4127 reports python=4053,sh=42,perl=32 2537 phpforms php=2537 1005 navigator python=984,sh=21 921 top_dir python=921 431 integrator python=410,sh=21 34 packages python=34 0 docbook (none) 0 CVS (none) 0 samples (none) Totals grouped by language (dominant language first): python: 42016 (92.85%) php: 2598 (5.74%) sh: 605 (1.34%) perl: 32 (0.07%) Action: reinhard wonders where the 4000 lines in appserver come from in a gnue project it's coders on crack typically um why is there php code in common? lol i was wondering that too probably a test case of some type johannes_ (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater_ (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement)) Nick change: jcater_ -> jcater dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) joined #gnuenterprise. we has 3 dsmiths at my last employer morning jbailey Vee2d2: Wow Vee2d2: My sons are named David and Daniel, so I have lots too. hehe Vee2d2: Given up on sleep? jbailey: on what? =) I go through several weeks where I sleep around 3-4 hours a night sometimes taking a quick 15 min nap in the afternoon, then a week or so where I sleep 6-8 hours ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. ninja (~rossg@ip-3.nb326.ipstar.cscoms.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" btami (~btami@3e70d72d.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all jamest: you here? btami: It would be interesting to do a sort on the irc logs to see how often you say that. =) jbailey: you here? :) jbailey: how goes html/win32 form client ? maybe later... btami (~btami@3e70d72d.dialin.enternet.hu) left irc: Nick change: minddog -> minddog[out] i like how phpforms is approaching the size of designer :) anyhow i thought it was interesting to see the different line counts by product shows the power of common, doesn't it? or at least significance i'm using common outside of gnue alot now jamest: For what types of things? (I don't really know what common offers aside from database abstrction) yes, I'm curious what all anyone is doing with the project currently it's the basic framework for all my new applicatoins its WAY more than db abstraction any python program I do is based upon common in the sense it handles master detail and such I read where you said you are using it in your office jbailey, what sort of things are you doing with it? Action: derek cant stress enough common is very similar to BDE in combination with VCL data components funny thing is I don't use it for db abstraction at all Vee2d2: network database. i.e. the data abstraction side is similar to BDE it's got some issues in that regard I plan to address in the near future but the data manipulation stuff like master detail and foreign key and datasources etc is similar to VCL data components i.e. it just speeds development time if you are in a windows shop it does'nt work w/o major effort outside GNUe What are BDE and VCL, btw? =) Borland Database Engine (Borland, Delphi, DB) ? and you want to help the GNU/Linux cause have your CIO read this or... From V.E.R.A. -- Virtual Entity of Relevant Acronyms June 2002 [vera]: BDE BetriebsDatenErfassung http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20021215S0001 =) BDE = Borland Database Engine VCL = Visual Component Library but basing my apps on GClientApp gives me visual is a misnomer as the data components werent 'visual' Ah okay. Good. They're acronyms that I shouldn't have expected to know. =) a logging system GDebug that features output redirection to a file good for non interactive apps a command line parsing system that is rather feature complete and easy to use ...and automatically generates man pages :) bbiab built in profiling engine a configuration system, it's a trival matter to add .ini config suport to a GClientApp command-line debugger and that allows automatically a "pine" style config with system settings, user overrides, and system fixed (non overridable) settings this is stuff almost all my apps use aside from that kind of stuff common has a strong DOM-style XML parser library that I use in some of my stuff as well as db abstraction and the start of client-server abstraction i.e., base your code on GServerApp.py and you get cross-platform daemon initing plus rpc abstraction Action: jcater hasn't used the daemon-mode stuff outside of gnue yet oh, and any command line argument or configuration option you define is automatically available from the man pages, as well as from the command line via --help or --configuration-options (IIRC) plus we have a wicked curses library called cursing that is really shaping up jcater: Does this DOM library have the ability to read in a tree, do dom calls, and not 1) Validate it or 2) Touch entities at all? something else I find usefull are some things in common never really meant to be exported jbailey: it's a DOM-like model not a DOM implementation like it's lineWrap function err, to be fair it's more an XML-To-Object and Object-To-XML library common also provides an ...right that was what I was going to say and when using it you also gain a trigger system so that it was fairly simple to add triggers defined in xml to your objects the forms, reports triggers are based upon this code it exports named objects into the trigger namespace automatically what is really cool is that it's an Object marshalling system that currently has an XML mode there's nothing stopping someone from writing an Object-to-SQL and SQL-to-Object layer I may be biased but common rocks my socks to store objects (forms, reports, etc) in a database that has been discussed before derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Oh yeah, I remember Dan was looking at OLQ. jamest: it does rock ooo, it also has a basic inter-object event model OQL, rather. but, most of this system can be used in layers I really like object databases like CA's Jasmine, and Cogito. err, I'm talking on a different layer but, yeah, that could be done too i started writing a developers guide for common as I think people don't realize it's a stand alone product of gnue and probably the most mature :) i hope to work on it more in the near future jcater may have a copy of it where he builds pdfs of the docs I think so yep it's there, the html version is screwed up yeah the pdf looks ok i think the html stuff isn't working derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) joined #gnuenterprise. i'm not sure it's current though jcater: didn't you add some appendixes to it? oooo yeah I added the schema xml format as an appendix well in 5 hrs I have 13 days off work I plan to do a lot of gnue'n and I think I can fit in redoing the pdfs :)( oooo yeah back to the XML-To-Object and Object-To-XML system I actually hope to focus on my new reports filter and a designer module for ity s/ity/it it's also trivial to tell the system which objects are importable ooooo alsoi that system is self-documenting so you can easily setup object libraries and can even output OpenOffice documentation of the XML file formats that's how the appendices in the Dev Guides are created damn, dude common does rock the reason so much auto documentation is possible is we use nested dictionary's to configure almost all our system The reason I was asking about the DOM stuff, is because for another project I need to load XHTML files in and manipulate them. But it's so slow because most things want to validate it (even if you tell them not to) with specific keys for descriptions And then they try to expand all the entities. i really don't think common would work well for that it directly maps xml to objects validating them on the import s/import/load re if you look in GFParser.py or GRParser.py you can see how we map the objects Ah, okya. Basically I want it to finish separation of presentation and business logic in some of my projects. To the point where as long as my web designer makes XHTML and puts id tags in the right place, my manipulations will work. After that I don't care what they do to the page. i was think zope offered something like this? but I've never used or even looked into it I've never looked at zope. I store the idea from Enhydra. s/store/stole/ Hmm. zope is love hate love How goes it Mr_You same Mr_You: Love hate love ? jamest: i went through the love hate love hate cycle of zope and stopped there you mean jamest though that was 3 years ago almost my first 6 hours with zope i was in awe and thought this is killer then we tried writing a real application (basically something like gnue) and very quickly through it out a few years back zope didn't appeal to me at that time it looked like content management for medium sites would be great short of that it was limited it has come a LONG way though from what i hear Action: derek keeps meaning to check it out again love: it's python based and has some amazing capabilities Action: Mr_You watches Lothar of the Hill People hate: it's IMHO poorly documented and thus very, very frustrating when trying to get it to jump thru the hoops just havent really had a need as i have removed myself from anything webbased :) cept things ive already written (all php) jamest: yes thats what killed me crappy docs so the first 6 hours were great as i was doing basics minute we wanted to 'hack' it was difficult :) bblm zope iirc is something like phpgroupware? bbiab jbailey (~jbailey@65.48.140.35) left irc: "Client Exiting" Vee2d2: bad analogy i think zope is probably more like midgard (if you want a php comparison) I'm not familiar with that project either, isnt it something like drupal or phpnuke? zope is app server (way overused term) it provides a way to manipulate sites using python, dtml (it's thing), perl it provides too-fine a grained security system zope had its beginnings iirc as a content management system it is extensible via plug-in modules that write to the zope api so i would compare it to content management systems first and foremost it has grown 'out' of that to a degree allowing for general web application development but i think you will find most of the approach still comes from CMS point of view it includes it's own ftp and webDav interfaces it has a content management system add on now it's a wierd beastie :) there seems to be a wide variety of cms solutions out there.. well now they are classifying zope as an web application framework (which i think is a good classification) consisting of many things one of which (the primary) jamest mentioned is their 'appserver' they ahve webserver and other pieces as well and zodb their own object database dtml etc Action: derek is away: hard rock cafe db abstration dang jbailey left the packages for gnue seem dorked in sid bbl Action: Vee2d2 is being tempted by the alluring aroma of broiled chicken woot! i have reports generating my dhcpd.conf file now to have it make my DNS config files dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: Vee2d2 does the luncheon thing.. Nick change: drochaid_ -> drochaid psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise. zope rocks my socks dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." Action: psu got a zope book for his birthday reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Remote closed the connection reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. haven't read it yet should get a round tuit over Christmas um did you ask for a zope book for christmas? if not, that's an odd gift :) Action: psu was dragged to the bookstore, told "choose yourself some books or else" or else? or else you get fuzzy slippers for christmas? :) ooooo don't forget to mail the kc home today :) before you leave work already @ home disc safely here psu: and Playboy's Girls of the Last 20 years wasn't available? :) jamest: but he's a Brit... they don;t think about things like sex, right? that's an American thing *snicker* ah, ok but....then....what do they do with their time? tea kc summaries oooooo, no sex for you psu dudes today is my 5th anniversary kc more important so I guess I shouldn't joke about sex jcater: so, you be in IRC tonight? :) absolutely what else would I do? :) dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: Client Quit siesel (jan@xdsl-213-196-192-122.netcologne.de) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all hi siesel reinhard: you and ariel talked about error handling of non existant object identifiers in appserver ah yes sure I just saw some note in KC, so I ask. i wanted to ask you about that :-) seems like KC is like a swap partition for my brain ;-) the question was we defined that if in "store" multiple objects are stored with a single call then a failed validation of a single object causes that none of the objects are stored but an exception to be raised the question now is hmmm if we call "delete" and one of the objectid's to delete doesn't exist will the rest of the objects be deleted, or will there be an exception an no deleting be done at all -o oops s/delete/remove/ I think store and delete should use the same mechanism. i.e. full ""rollback"" of action in case of error. both ariel and me agreed basically that calls to the "raw" interface should be atomic that is all is done or nothing is done so yes i think we all 3 agree here good. but how should the exeption be defined? It should return the OID of the invalid object. And what about multiple invalid objects in a store operation. Should only the first one be returned, or should all be returned. well i would say invalid objectid's probably indicate an error in the calling code don't they? yes, they are. I just thought that you mean more than invalid objID if you speak of an invalid object so i don't think it's that important to return which object failed ah you mean for example a business rule tells that this object may not be removed It could possibly be an object with an valid oid, but which don't fit some constraints for example because the customer still has open orders yes. something like that. hmmm i could imagine some system like "get_last_error" which returns a text like "Can't remove customer, because it still has open orders" hehehe, what about something like this: system table: session_errors then you can get one error or many errors at one time, and you don't have to define new commands. an single error would need the following informations defined: 1. the error text (like can't remove customer... 2. the involved object (stored as oid) siesel: sorry, wife interruption ... siesel: great idea reinhard: I already thought so, its 21:15 now, so it wouldn't be a customer :) :) probably 3. a system interpretable status flag probably 4. the involved table siesel: i looked at the geasSessionManager.py do i interpret correctly that this is only a framework and the functions of the new api are not really implemented? they are partly implemented. ok geasSessionManager functions calling the appropriate session functions gasSession functions calling the appropriate class functions