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Jeet (cool@modem-211.alligator.dialup.pol.co.uk) left #gnuenterprise. bye Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" kid|Q3 (kId@pD9051CA0.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: kid|Q3 -> kid some1 here? hello kid hello, no xmas preliminaries for you? you came to warn me? :) warning before what? no - I just have a probably stupid question ask do you think that it is currently possible to start with the development of business logic in gnue or are you still develpoing the tools? it may depent from project scale i think it would not be to have a runnig application but to have an framework for creating an application running in maybe > 12 month you can use tools in 2-tier mode creating the business logic in that way and waiting for the cire to develop? core it is the only way to use now as application server is in early stage do you have a guess when one would have a running environment? running environment? it exist already an "installable" system with few limitation that could be running as a real world application btw: your nick has no connection to Rocket Arena 3 StyXman: how is papo doing? ra3vat: good, we've done a 0.1.0 release, and a week later the first bugfix. probably via it parameters support and we're installing it in some testing cases. people are calling in asking for it. we appeared in the local newspaper. jamest: you mean the returning thing? ra3vat: but I'm not the best guy for answering about it. StyXman: you're a good enough anyway :) glad to hear papo doing well it is yesterday's conversation so the question is not to stupid if its not only me to ask http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/papo sure not http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/gnue-sb es espanol thx yes, it is a group from .ar and why is this gnue-sb a special project, if the same modules are also part of gnue? tools also used by many of citizens of #gnuenterprise for internal real world projects kid: you'd better talk with other native speakers they'll arrive in a few hours native english speakers? yeah not me poor russian :) that makes me somewhat proud - i'm german btw: your nick has no connection to Rocket Arena 3 ? we have germans too and from austria yes, i read this on the gnue-page 2 germans and 1 austrian i do not know what it is. this is a quake 3 mod - there are many world class quake players you know this game? it is my amateur callsign. it is good sometimes as worldwide unique key personal key :) i know the game just do not play much you mean for amateur radio kid: gnue-sb was places as small (2-tier) application that demonstrate ability of the tools before official moduled would be developed ah - thx and what would be these 2 layers? it's just gnue forms and database yes for amateur radio is amateur radio often used in russia ? i do not think so there was too much restrictions before but probably better then 10 years ago i came to amateur radion when ditital transmissions were allowed it was somewhere in 1992 where are russia do you live? in i had packet radio BBS sorry - i'm not strong in technical terms for this what would that mean then was short period of time when CB-radion was allowed and became available it was wide used (in fact I just remember: CQ CQ ein allgemeiner aufruf) so this is youre sender/receiver? BBS it is like site :) and mail, list server it was equipped with self made radio modems on 1200 bod kid: i'm about 200 km behind moscow kid: you? behind means east-ward direction ? yes im from a smaller sized town near to the border of the former german democratic republic on the former west-side but i only live here with my family - during the week i'm working near the french border about 350 lm away from here so this page explains something to packet radio for me: http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/pktf.html i was a member of tapr for some period of time, it gave me printed bulletins before internet became available sounds interesting - i never heard of this too few time for too much interesting topics one of the famous german amateur radio development http://www.baycom.org/ so this bavaria is my state in germany even if i'm from north of bavaria where ppl dont feel bavarian - at least kid: interesting what? jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. kid: small world thing :) yes - today more than ever before exciting what future will bring i had funny story last year, one other german was involved ? it is long to type, sorry :) do you have contact with the other open source ERP projects? i do not need other ones :) good answer so no antagonistic feelings? Action: ra3vat hugs his gnue so i'll try to install do you have a guess how long it will take to do something usefull in this? no one project will fit 100 % if you do not participate, ERP especially IMHO sure, i meant for me to do something usefull once after i learned the basics describe your needs, it may be usefull these days already I was impressed how much might be done with GNUe Forms without any string of code my current need is to have some fun and learn some new stuff next to my paid work once i know something i would concentrate on material management and production scheduling for make fun this project and this channel fits more than 100 % :) wait others they'll confirm that :) there must be one reason to not play quake or football instead Action: ra3vat already hear the voice - "Run away as long as you can" i'm still searching for the perfect framework to build applications after all the years tried some for myself, but this is too much work for todays expectations Gnue Forms has some similarities with Oracle SQL Forms kid: what system are you in? linux? my current job is not system dependent: it is based on jave normally i work with win2k, but i have some linux-experience from some 0.9x version and some sunos and osf/1 knowledge from my university time long ago jcater: is cvs version good enough to recommend for newcomers? there is binary build for win32 alex_k (~alex@195.54.196.227) left irc: "Client Exiting" this is what i install right now ok it would be nice if gui-creation is easy, i prefer backend-coding it is what gnue forms done for that was my hope do you know which C-compilers are supported with windows - only gcc or also msvc? C-compilers for what? isn't part of the system C-based, or could everything be coded in python? python only so C is for the ORB and the database-interface? obsolete geas code was done in C so now it is 100% python? yes ah - I looked at it in an older version and there was C in it so now not even C to expand some missing python-features? this is a big plus for python then it was concluded to redevelop application server (old geas) developer meeting in frankfurt was aimed to this you have some experience about the performance loss due to this? all germans are involved this is only 70 km from where I work - i drive through frankfurt twice per week oh, you had to know earlier cvs head is ok to use i will try the easy way 1st my children already waiting under the x-mas tree if you can test on a unix box of any type you'll get a better feel for the system it works under windows but we're having issues with the win32 ui which gives an unfair impression about the state of the backend then this is my punishment problem here is that said we have people working in windows alot and the 0.5.x releases will see the introduction of a native win32 driver i have too computers and five ppl loving computer games gives my no unix-box as I don't think we can ever get wxPython to give us the control we require under win32 and the notebook from my company is also win2k no fault of wxPython win32 native is a focus of the upcomming series of releases so i have to install wxpython also? if you use the .exes then no they are self contained and can be network installed as well ok, thx our windows install and stability is fine it's the damn UI widget event handling that we're clashing with and that's only in gnue forms as i said: i like the backend development gnue designer is fine so no big need for the gui or is all functionality dialog-triggered? well you can write apps using forms/designer where the functionality is embedded in the form file via triggers ok gnue appserver will allow logic to set in the backend but I'm not sure it's status at the moment reinhard? reports are completely independent of the UI between forms and reports you can do some pretty amazing stuff in a short amount of time (but I'm biased :) but if logic is triggered by dialogs what happens with data-interfaces to external systems this is moving more into appserver's area and gnue integrator ok which are both not as mature as forms/designer i'm bughunting all the week, why not on holidays but the switch from C to python in appserver had something to do with that :) i always try to get a coding framework that allows different layers for gui-input with simple checking -> data delivery to (eventually asynchronous) processing -> data storage then external systems could use the same interface as the gui applications no need to repeat the logic from the dialogs i think this describes appserver right now gnue common supports a datasource model that allows you to plug into various database systems then that is where i have to start one of the datasources is our own appserver which in turn uses (last I checked) our datasource model too sounds interesting gives some logical layers to think about yeah well, i'm not the one qualified to be talking about appserver as I'm not coding on it i can wait children also waiting for santa clause to arrive so nothing that has to happen today what time is it there? about 4 pm on 24th? starting to dawn no: dusk ra3vat: i started to look thru your i18n changes anything that removes the need to make changes to the python site file is a "good thing" :) kid: you familiar with that unittest thing? i know it from junit and i like the idea and try to use it whenver there is some spare time it was discussed IIRC that we need one is this then with the pyunit? or someone experiences in that here for a second kid: i think what you were talking about is quite the aim of appserver good i wasn't full of it ! :) then our guesses were not that bad the status of appserver is not that bad at the moment and i wouldnt have to throw away my ideal of an application but it's much worse than how we liked it to be :-( i think this is the normal state for sw-development this strange thing called "real life" keeps getting in our way ;-) have ypu ever been contempt? especially today it will limit our schedule contempt? Action: reinhard doesn't quite understand sorry: content zufrieden ah :) deutsch macht's leichter wenn man's kann jaja reinhard: was anything decided about the cache? :-) jamest: didn't meet siesel since then i know jan and I discussed in IRC then a mail but for me it makes perfect sense what was written in the list mails then silence that cache should be completely transparent and therefore can be implemented/improved at any stage of development without breaking other stuff at all i also don't see cache as a must-have for 0.1 appserver however people in free software development tend to priorize the stuff they need themselves ;-) :) never! however Action: jamest looks at his pile of 3/4 finished but works for him stuff should prepare for christmas now happy christmas everyone! Nick change: reinhard -> rm-x-mas my wife gave mne an additional hour jamest: thanks, it works for me but not for Arturas, it may be differencies between 2.2.1 and 2.1.x version of python thx same for yu +o which i'm not familiar with ra3vat: you run which version? 2.2.1 ok, i think i have 2.1 at home i get the version i sent to you after series of changes to let it work on Arturas' side the idea is to get needed encoding and use it for proper _() function there is also a message in maillist that describe some of this things oooo so you have it working already? yes it works fine for me and art? i removed all settings for local encoding from site.py to ascii and formFontEncoding do the work and one translation file work in linux and win where we have different encoding not for art the error was DB000: text = _("GNU Enterprise Forms") DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GBaseApp.py", line 256, in tran DB000: t = catalog.ugettext(msg).encode(runtime_charset) DB000: NameError: global name 'catalog' is not defined < it was prior i made it global some namespacies thing DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 144, in /home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GBaseApp.py:100: SyntaxWarning: local name 'self' in '__init__' shadows use of 'self' as global in nested scope 'tran' def __init__(self, connections=None, application=None, defaults=None): *** ra3vat enc = ascii Gdk-WARNING **: Missing charsets in FontSet creation Gdk-WARNING **: ISO8859-13 DB000: Traceback (most recent call last): DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 147, in ? DB000: GFClient().run() DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 144, in run DB000: instance.activate() DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFInstance.py", line 204, in activate DB000: self._uiinstance = self._uimodule.GFUserInterface(self.eventController, self._disableSplash) DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 130, in __init__ DB000: self.splash = UIWXSplashScreen() DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIWXSplashScreen.py", line 50, in __init__ DB000: text = _("GNU Enterprise Forms") DB000: File "/home/arturas/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GBaseApp.py", line 253, in tran DB000: return catalog.ugettext(msg).encode(self.runtime_charset) DB000: File "/usr/lib/python2.1/gettext.py", line 195, in ugettext DB000: return unicode(tmsg, self._charset) DB000: TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None arturas@gsk:18:06:39:~/gnue/gnue-ro-3/gnue: > Gdk-WARNING **: Missing charsets in FontSet creation this was error with what I sent to you *** ra3vat enc = ascii - strange thing as it is initialized to ISO-88... thing by default ew jbailey (~jbailey@atlas.fundserv.com) joined #gnuenterprise. rm-x-mas (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "'Hardware' defines as the parts of a computer system that can be kicked" I like that definition. I'll have to use that when teaching computer classes. i did this last 8 years ago reinhard teaches us all the time this way :) jamest: does it work (not crashed) on the version you have at work? i got pulled away from it it'll be a bit show begins here - so thx for your kind introduction kid: welcome back and merry christmas! same for you - cu thanks V_laptop (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. btami (~btami@3e70d730.dialin.enternet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. happy xmas all !!! hohoho ra3vat: how goes encoding's ? encodings? po/mo problems ru on linux/win32 kid (kId@pD9051CA0.dip.t-dialin.net) left irc: "cu @ll" i sent modified GBaseApp.py to Arturas and jamest it works here but not for Arturas have no report from jamest yet what was your problem, i just can't remember, sorry i see we need your help what can i help? the problem was that with the old code we need translation file for each encoding we run forms with yes, i remember now and yet existent dependancy to set defaultencoding if i understand correctly, these are 2 independent problems, isn't it? it works fine for me with python 2.2.1 while Arturas has 2.1.x they seemed independent global catalog catalog = gettext.translation('gnue',GConfig.getInstalledBase('install_prefix')+'/translations',languages=lang) catalog.install(unicode) self.runtime_charset = gConfig('formFontEncoding') def tran(msg): global catalog return catalog.ugettext(msg).encode(self.runtime_charset)