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Action: Vee2d2 passes some espresso down
<chillywilly> yo
<Vee2d2> good stuff isnt it? =)
<chillywilly> er...well I have pepsi, but no espresso
<chillywilly> :-/
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<Vee2d2> howdy psu
<Vee2d2> heh.. 
Action: Vee2d2 rewires his eyes
<Mr_You> hi
<Vee2d2> morning Mr_You
<Mr_You> just poppin in, gotta run
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<ra3vat> hi beecher
<beecher> ra3vat> hi...
<ra3vat> any gnue related questions?
<beecher> At this time noone...
<ra3vat> ok, feel free to ask at any time :)
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<btami> hi all
<ra3vat> hi btami
<btami> hi ra3vat
<ra3vat> i was playing with reports
<ra3vat> how would you like to set output encoding for reports?
<ra3vat> i was only able to change .xsl to get text report in koi8
<btami> today only sitecustomize.py or site.py is working
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<btami> it needs more work with formFontEncoding (or textEncoding in [common])
<btami> for reports/designer
<ra3vat> but output encoding may be different for reports and for different filters
<ra3vat> by default it outputs all in UTF-8
<btami> for html 
<ra3vat> i had also for text
<btami> with xslt?
<ra3vat> i changed one .xsl that is linked from gnue/shared/filters
<ra3vat> f.e. text.xsl adding <xsl:output method="text" indent="no" encoding="koi8-r"/>
<ra3vat> it is how sablotron faq says
<ra3vat> will try to test report again with site.py/ascii 
<btami> without correct setdefaultencoding() reports will fail with non ascii data 
<btami> in some destwrite() call
<btami> dest.write(...)
<btami> it needs some .encode(encoding) like in forms
<ra3vat> ok, then it is separate problem/questions with what i was saying 
<ra3vat> how to specify output encoding for particular report
<btami> yes
<btami> maybe we want not only 1 textEncoding in [common]
<btami> if forms and reports encodins are different
<btami> what is your case ?
<ra3vat> i do not know yet how/where  to use that setting to change output encoding, the only way i found was via .xsl
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<ra3vat> it is configurable enough as i can put modified .xsl and add entry for it in /etc/report-filters.conf
<btami> but what encodings are your requirements for forms/reports ?
<btami> form me 1 encoding is enough for all
<btami> s/form/for
<btami> i mean one textEncoding in [common] will be good for me
<ra3vat> my requirement is i should be able to specify encoding in user space and at run time
<ra3vat> encoding may be different for text and html output
<ra3vat> with .xsl i'm able to do that now but may be there is better way?
<ra3vat> grcvs -D file -d tmp --filter text_koi8 ..
<btami> i see
<ra3vat> i can use different filters for different needs
<btami> i'm not sure how .xsl will be supported in standard reports
<btami> as they need more complicated .xsl
<btami> we have to ask core guys
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<btami> but maybe a new comand line param for encoding will be the right direction
<ra3vat> what do you mean by more complicated .xsl?
<btami> please look at report-notes.txt in reports/doc
<ra3vat> ok
<btami> that is jcater's area for standard tags
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<btami> that will be more complicated to proces with xslt than SimpleTabulation
<btami> IMO
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<btami> btw. i'v got errors several times from your Postfix
<btami> when i'v tried to send GBaseApp.py
<btami> <ds@ics.elcom.ru>: can't create user output file. Command output: procmail:
<btami>     Error while writing to "/var/spool/mail/ds"
<ra3vat> oh, may be solved already, thanks
<btami> may i try to send again?
<ra3vat> yes, please
<btami> ok
<btami> have to go, bye
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<ra3vat> hi kid
<kid> hello @ everybody
<ra3vat> how is the flood?
<kid> gone away
<ra3vat> uh
<kid> but big mud party yesterday
<kid> about 100 cm water in cellar
<kid> our street was in german tv last days
<kid> but now it's over
<kid> and not that bad
<kid> just old stuff destroyed in cellar
<ra3vat> it was shown in news here as well
<kid> you remember the towns?
<ra3vat> no
<kid> the good thing was: after we finished work our landlord - who helped the whole session - ordered some pizza
<kid> and then we had some party with some bottles of red wine
<ra3vat> ok :)
<kid> beeing a child of the 60's this reminded me of the days when we had society-feeling in this nowadays cold country
<kid> so this was worth the price - at least with that little damage that we had
<ra3vat> you think east-germany was good society-feeling country?
<ra3vat> why is that changed so much for west part from that time?
<kid> i'm from west-germany - but from what i hear east-germany-ppl claim to have this
<kid> even if i cant't believe
<kid> i wouldn't have that feeling if i couldn't trust my neightbour
<kid> in 70's and 80's we still could affort something like social capitalism
<kid> but now when everything is about money<
<kid> and fear for loss of money and wealth things changed
<kid> but i think this is not that easy
<kid> problem is also with generation of my kids
<kid> they never learned to be part of a society but are mostly in the ego and hedonistic lifestyle
<kid> so same result for all generations - but induced by different causes
<ra3vat> it would be interesting for me to read more about what changed in west germany from 80 on that topic
<kid> i don't know of any books describing this 
<ra3vat> as i do not believe as what was in east-germany (and in whole russia) is good enough
<ra3vat> and do not want it to come back
<kid> so i'm confirmed in my thoughts from reading different articles and talking w/ other ppl
<kid> but this should not be complain, just stating of facts; (at least currently) this is still complaining on high level compared for example with your country's history
<kid> the question is always: in which direction this will head
<ra3vat> but we were doing worse that in east-germany and then jumped so far in opposite direction
<kid> and as it was always in germany: w/ >80 mio ppl on that little room i think that we are not very tolerant towards major problems
<kid> maybe currently just everyone is to pessimistic
<kid> and instead we will reach a future that where in my childhoods SF-books about year 2000, just we few years dealy
<kid> delay
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<reinhard> hello kid
<kid> hello reinhard
<kid> i'm still on searching for new alternatives to spoil up my mind
<reinhard> since you have talked so much about your childhood
<kid> different gui's, different OS's
<reinhard> may i ask how old you are?
<kid> 37
<reinhard> wow
<kid> somewhere between outgrown adult and a wise man
<reinhard> :-)
<reinhard> so you could hear the beatles playing live :-)
<kid> no, at least i don't remember exactly
<kid> for me music started w/ queen and deep purple
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<reinhard> ah cool
<kid> yes, and still is
<kid> what is the eldest age in the team?
<reinhard> not sure
<reinhard> jamest, jcater and derek are a lot younger
<reinhard> chillywilly is quite young, too
Action: ra3vat_ is from ancient 65
<reinhard> (all around 20 - 25 or so)
<reinhard> no stop
<reinhard> i think jamest is already around 30
<kid> funny, i thougt that erp-software merely attracted the older guys
<kid> i started my interest for this with >30
<reinhard> we have some ppl like louis and stan klein who are >50 IIRC
<reinhard> but they don't show up here that often
<reinhard> more in mailing list
<reinhard> i'm 32 but i do business software for >10 years now
<kid> i started with process control stuff
<kid> this makes you very defensive
<kid> so you must have started this in uinversity?
<reinhard> no
<reinhard> i wasn't in university
<kid> directly started in company?
<reinhard> i don't have more than "abitur"
<reinhard> yes
<kid> matura in austria - if i remember correctly
<reinhard> yeah! right!
<kid> i had worked with many austrian guys in former company
<reinhard> it's called "matura" but IIRC I wasn't quite mature then :)
<kid> yes, but also we cant afford to go to school until >30
<kid> and before only few are mature
<kid> this is a german company where both founders and business managers are austrian
<reinhard> oh
<kid> and also good part of the staff
<reinhard> yes we export know-how ;-)
<kid> they split from siemens
<kid> as sap split from ibm
<reinhard> what's the name of that company?
<kid> http://www.proleit.de/d/main/welcome.htm
<kid> i was not employed there but had some complicated kind of cooperation
<reinhard> well
<reinhard> i'm off now to meet SachaS in real life
<reinhard> l8r all
Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away
<kid> this text is still about 50% from my feather: http://www.proleit.de/d/products/products_ipl_ProdLogistics.htm
<kid> cu
Action: ra3vat_ is going to reboot now
<kid> good luck
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Action: drochaid is back (gone 10:18:05)
<ra3vat> feasgar math drochaid
<drochaid> feasgar math, ciamar a tha thu an-diugh?
Action: ra3vat runs
<drochaid> LOL
<ra3vat> :)
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<kid> cu
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<StyXman> hi guys :(
<ra3vat> hello StyXman
<ra3vat> why :( ?
<StyXman> it's sunday, and I'm working...
<StyXman> luckily, tomorrow starts my holidays :)
<StyXman> but it's :( till then :)
<ra3vat> wish you to be :) asap
<ra3vat> :)
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<StyXman> are there input masks/show masks?
<ra3vat> reinhard: http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween8.php
<StyXman> or better, how do I use <entry>'s {format,input,display}mask attrs?
<ra3vat> last i asked they were not worked
<StyXman> ra3vat: I'm starting to aks myself if esr is not making up all those memos :)
<ra3vat> i do not know, we were talking around Ghandi quote with reinhard, thats why i gave that link to him  
<ra3vat> StyXman: it is bad if esr made up the Gandhi quote as well :)
<StyXman> ok. gone. 
<StyXman> by ra3vat 
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<jcater> cool
<jcater> looks like wx 2.4.0 was released Dec 22
<jcater> they did a poor job of announcing it :-/
<jcater> but wxPython hasn't been updated yet :(
<jcater> btami: if you read backlogs:  I seriously doubt I will be able to use XSL for the new reports format
<ra3vat> is there something important for us?
<jcater> ra3vat: we've had to put a lot of workarounds in our code
<jcater> for shortcomings in wx 2.2
<jcater> 2.4 is the stabilization of 2.3
<jcater> (they do the 'odd == development; even == stable' release thing)
<jcater> ra3vat: to give you an idea... when I complain about stuff in 2.2
<jcater> I get the typical response
<jcater> "it works in 2.3+... you need to upgrade"
<jcater> but I've hated to require a development branch (2.3.x)
<jcater> so we just putz around w/2.2 shortcomings
<jcater> btami: I'm 99% sure the new reports "standard" markup will look more like your direct driver than the xsl driver
<ra3vat> then it's a good thing
<ra3vat> what is btami's direct driver?
<jcater> he reimplemented the text.xsl, html.xsl, etc
<jcater> to work in python
<jcater> not requiring the XSLT stuff
<jcater> it's in cvs, but wasn't in 0.1.0
Action: jcater is away: errands
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<siesel> hi all
<ra3vat> hello siesel
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<tam> :P
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Action: drochaid drops a large concrete block on tam and tam0
Action: drochaid jumps up and down on him just to make sure
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<tam0> ahh your soo re-assuring drochaid
<drochaid> I try
<jcater> reinhard: fyi we are 25-30, not 20-25 :)
<drochaid> jcater: meet tam0 .. feel free to hit him :)
Action: jcater looks for his shop hammer
Action: drochaid goes back to working on TMGweb
<tam0> jcater: hey, it's ok... drochaid doesn't really get bullied IRL, but will on wednesday :P
<drochaid> I still don't know if I'll be able to make it tam0
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<tam0> :/
Action: chillywilly is 25
Action: tam0 is 18
Action: drochaid is in pain
<drochaid> sorry, that didn't flow .. 
<drochaid> I'll try again
Action: drochaid is 27
Action: Vee2d2 will be 32 in a few weeks
<chillywilly> say hi to r2d2 for me ok?
<drochaid> TMGweb is LIIIIIIIVE
<chillywilly> wtf is that?
<drochaid> new group site
<drochaid> I'm only happy because I'm sleep and food starved right now :)
<chillywilly> group site?
<drochaid> http://www.morrell-group.com/
<chillywilly> I'd really like to get LET off the ground
<drochaid> LET?
<chillywilly> Liberty Enterprise Technologies (aka my business)
<drochaid> ahhh
<drochaid> what's holding you up?
<chillywilly> hmmm, myself I guess
<drochaid> go for it then
<drochaid> get as much advice as you can, build a good business plan ... and just do it
<chillywilly> right...
<drochaid> I know it's nowhere near that easy, but the bigest hurdle is convincing yourself ... get past that and you've got a good chance :)
<tam0> i agree 
<tam0> big time
<drochaid> wow, not often you agree with me :o
<drochaid> then again, not often chillywilly agrees with me .. still waiting to see if he does ;)
<chillywilly> sure, but I do have some things that I would like to square away first...that's what's really holding me back
<chillywilly> various projects that need finishing
<chillywilly> I agree with you, it's all a metter of doing it
<chillywilly> er, matter
<drochaid> while you're working on these other projects .. are you planning for launching LET?
<chillywilly> yea, I suppose I can multi-task ;)
<drochaid> tis a good idea to, I spent 11 months planning the launch of TMC for last March
<chillywilly> hey I at least started some things...a buddy has sent me some documents like a format for a business plan and I took some notes on some things he said I should look into ans I do know where my resources lie, we have a real good local chamber of commerce, etc.
<drochaid> so if you can get a lot of that out the way while you're doing other tasks, it could seriously shorten your time to going live WHEN you finally do so :)
<chillywilly> yea :)
<drochaid> cool, use your chambers and every other resource you possibly can
<drochaid> I take the opinion that ANY advice is valuable, even if I end up not using it
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<chillywilly> true dat
<chillywilly> especially when you're trying to figure out how to do something ;)
<drochaid> yep
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--- Mon Jan  6 2003