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<jcater> dyfet: In the 1.0 source tree, we have chosen to support a new TCP mechanism for IPC and control. One can telnet to a running GNU Bayonne 1.0 server and manipulate it live and interactively. This new mechanism was modified so that it could support http requests alongside interactive telenet sessions and so now GNU Bayonne can respond to http requests directly as well. 
<jcater> is this still valid?
<jcater> can bayonne listen via a tcp port?
<jcater> is this the same interface as the fifo file?
<dyfet> no, that became BayonneNG, but BayonneNG died out :)
<dtm> THERE IS NO TCP
<dtm> ONLY ZUUL
<dyfet> BayonneNG was originally going to be 1.0
<dyfet> there is a tcp monitor
<dyfet> in current bayonne
Action: jcater wonders what kind of crack dtm is on today?
<jcater> too much mt dew?
<dtm> dyfet: why was there a fork of bayonne?
<dtm> i have no dew!  i haven't even any water!
<dtm> i need OUT OF HERE
<dtm> I GOTTA........    SPACE        MAAAADNEEEEESSSSSSSS
<dyfet> because there was going to be a new telephony driver model written by some other people under gstreamer which never got done by them
<dtm> dyfet: those silly guys.
<dtm> not finishing stuff.
<dyfet> so we went back to bayonne "classic" and moved most of bayonneng into it
<dyfet> except for the http monitoring :)
<dtm> oh, well, that's good.
<dyfet> thats what became bayonne 1.0
Action: jcater needs to pick up a card off of ebay
<jcater> dyfet: does bayonne have some sort of sandbox driver? 
<jcater> i.e., acts like it's doing something
<jcater> but isn't really
<jcater> ?
Action: jcater could rtfm
<jcater> but irc is so much easier
<dyfet> yes, a soundcard driver
<dyfet> uses the keyboard
Action: chillywilly is still gonna setup that demo some day ;)
<jcater> eh, cool
<jcater> jcater:~# bayonne_setup
<jcater> Segmentation fault
<jcater> jcater:~#
<chillywilly> ick
<chillywilly> running debian sid?
<jcater> ja
<chillywilly> what version of libstdc++?
<chillywilly> libstdc++3 or libstdc++5?
<chillywilly> I am having some issues with libstdc++5
<jcater> 5
<chillywilly> the serialecho program in common c++ segfaults for me
<chillywilly> demo program
<dyfet> in the docs directory there is an install guide
<jcater> docs?
<dyfet> doc
<jcater> you expect someone to read docs on getting started?
<jcater> sheesh
<jcater> :)
<dyfet> sure :)
<chillywilly> hmmm
<chillywilly> I dunno why it passes this in by int& but it driving me insane
<jcater> wow
<jcater> this is confusing the hell outta me
<jcater> good job guys :)
<jcater> confusing <== information overload
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<chillywilly> damn it's midnight already?
<chillywilly> wtf
<dyfet> past midnight, and i have to be up at 7 to go to dc
<dyfet> bbl...
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<chillywilly> past midnight for wast coast fewls ;)
<chillywilly> er, east
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<btami> good morning
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<chillywilly> btami: morning
<btami> hi chilly
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<siesel> hi all
<ariel> hi
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<reinhard> argh missed him
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<ariel> hi reinhard
<reinhard> hi ariel
<ariel> take a look to http://modeling.sourceforge.net
<ariel> it is very complicated, since it aims to be areal python-db bridge but may be there are interesting ideas for appserver
<reinhard> yes
<reinhard> i thought the same when i read this
<reinhard> he is headin into a slightly different direction than we are
<reinhard> but we might be able to steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow some ideas from him
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<Vee2d2> howdy senor bailey
<jbailey> Heya Vee!
<Vee2d2> I wonder how many iterations of pi have been registered as domains.. I could register one and use it for my email address I give out to people I dont really want emailing me.. =)
<Vee2d2> --- [Zibby] (foobar@3.14159265358979323846264338327950288419716939937510582097.org) : Despite all my rage I'm still a first level mage.
<jbailey> It would be worse than that.
<jbailey> Only spam bots would email you.
<Vee2d2> would need to be pretty small print to fit it on a buiz card.. 
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<ariel> hi jcater
<ariel> jcater: do you have five spare minutes for me ? :)
<ariel> which version of wxPython do you have?
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<ariel> the problem i had with designer was related to wx (ver. 2.3.2.1) so i upgraded to 4.0.1
<ariel> now designer seems to work fine but forms crashes on startup
<ariel> since on the wxPython site there is only the latest version for download, is it possiblle to point to a 'reccomended' version
<ariel> and to upload a tarball on our site in the dependencies section?
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<ariel> rinning gfcvs ...intro.gfd i get:
<ariel> running gfcvs ...intro.gfd i get:
<ariel> DB000: Traceback (most recent call last):
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 147, in ?
<ariel> DB000:     GFClient().run()
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFClient.py", line 144, in run
<ariel> DB000:     instance.activate()
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFInstance.py", line 219, in activate
<ariel> DB000:     self.activateForm('__main__')
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/GFInstance.py", line 236, in activateForm
<ariel> DB000:     self._uiinstance.activateForm(formName)
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/_base/UIdriver.py", line 260, in activateForm
<ariel> DB000:     self._activateForm(form._form)
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 222, in _activateForm
<ariel> DB000:     self.__addMenuItem(dataMenu, _("Next &Block\tPgDn"),_('Navigate to next data block.'),'requestNEXTBLOCK', form=form)
<ariel> DB000:   File "/home/ariel/cvs/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/forms/uidrivers/wx/UIdriver.py", line 349, in __addMenuItem
<ariel> DB000:     menu.Append(id, text, help)
<ariel> DB000:   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/site-packages/wxPython/windows.py", line 806, in Append
<ariel> DB000:     val = apply(windowsc.wxMenu_Append,(self,) + _args, _kwargs)
<ariel> DB000: wxPython.wxc.wxPyAssertionError: C++ assertion "wxAssertFailure" failed in /projects/wx/wxPython/_build_rpm/rpmtop/BUILD/wxPythonSrc-2.4.0.1/src/gtk/menu.cpp(1434): unknown keyboard accel
<ariel> jcater: ?
<jcater> well that sucks
<jcater> I haven't tested against 2.4.0 yet
<jcater> but my undesrtanding was that 2.4.0 wasn't very much different than 2.3.3.2
<jcater> which I had used
<jcater> :-/
<jcater> I'll try to look at that this afternoon
<ariel> jcater: thank you, i have problems to chat with you since i momentainly don't have connection at home and
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<ariel> evening here is morning there
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<chillywilly> I've tried to email an excellent paper on object-relational mapping but gnu.org bonced everything I've ever tried to send to gnue-dev since Dec. 5th, now that I have it fex I think I'll resend it
<chillywilly> er, fixed
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<dtm> chillywilly: ha!!  whoa.
<dtm> well i have no response from postmaster@gnu.org
<chillywilly> well it tries to rely the thing back to you
<chillywilly> and somehow I wasn't replaying private IPs (although I explicitly remember setting it p that way)
<chillywilly> so then monty-python would bitch slap me
<chillywilly> er, relaying
<chillywilly> and I wouldn't knw cause exim would just freeze the message in the queue
<chillywilly> monty-python is a nazi
<dtm> yeah apparently
<dtm> why is that?
<dtm> is there some purpose or do they just not care much
<chillywilly> it has a militant setup
<chillywilly> te cut down spam I would think
<chillywilly> s/te/to
<chillywilly> at least I am nw able to frickin' post to gnu.org lists again, that's all I care about
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<btami> hi all
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<jcater_> grrrr
<jcater_> cut me off before my message went thru
<jcater_> <jcater> psu: word up
<jcater_> <jcater> chillywilly: I took the liberty of replying to your email
<jcater_> <jcater> to give y'all some more reading material :)
<jcater_> <jcater> btw: as far as his recommendations on design of relational tables... I agree w/most of what he says
<jcater_> <jcater> I've used composite keys before
<jcater_> <jcater> and it has backfired on me 
<jcater_> <jcater> :-/
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<psu__> jcater: werd too
<jcater> http://s2k-ftp.CS.Berkeley.EDU:8000/www/sqldb.gif"
<jcater> s/"/
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<psu__> Lead story on The Onion: "Bush on North Korea - 'We Must Invade Iraq'"
<psu__> Why am I reminded of Tom Lehrer's remark about having to give up satire
<psu__> because of unfair competition from reality ;-)
<jcater> lol
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<psu__> ISTR it was about the time that Henry Kissenger got the Nobel Peace Prize...
<chillywilly> jcater: I don't think an ODMS and an OODBMS is the same thing, imho, at least not the way ODMG defines it
<jcater> sure it is
<chillywilly> (Object Data Management System)
<revDeke> i want to know if all these people clamoring for an object to relational mapper
<revDeke> have ever worked with an object database?
<revDeke> i say that in ALL seriousness
<chillywilly> no, it even says in the standard that products which map objects to relational databases are an ODMS
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Action: revDeke actually has had to work with one for production crap deployed to huge companies
<chillywilly> revDeke: no but I like relational databases
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<dtm> revDeke: herrow
<ajmitch> morning
<chillywilly> I don't think I want to use one
<chillywilly> it's not standardized enough, most have their own format for the most part (from what I can tell)
<psu__> is not the point of a relat-to-object mapper just 
<psu__> a) encapsulation
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<psu__> b) caching
<psu__> i.e. allow appserver to cache stuff from the RDBMS & manipulate it in efficient python rather than remote SQL.
<jcater> chillywilly: oodbms is much worse than odbms then, imho
<chillywilly> ODMG standard defines a few things, but it's intent is not to define an OODMS but APIs, some specification, languages, and a query language
<chillywilly> er, OODBMS
<jcater> standardization is not the issue
<jcater> it's underlying concepts :-/
<chillywilly> like what?
<jcater> lack there of
<chillywilly> I don't understand
<revDeke> let me tell you
<jcater> chillywilly: spend a day at this site:
<jcater> http://www.dbdebunk.com/
<jcater> very good stuff
<revDeke> if you had an object database and you never had to deal with ANY OTHER VENDOR in the entire world 
<revDeke> you would like it, but be frustrated regularly
<revDeke> if you have to interface with anyone else in the world you are screwed
Action: havoc knows a *lot* about databases including OO ones
<revDeke> and if you dare ever want to change who you get your techonology from, think about starting again
<havoc> but then DBs are all I do
<havoc> StoredProcs == Bad
<chillywilly> right, but who's bilding an OODBMS?
<chillywilly> not us
<chillywilly> not me
<jcater> havoc: I venture to guess that quite a few ppl here have extensive experience in databases too :)
<chillywilly> so I still don't understand the point
<havoc> chillywilly: OO dbs are overrated and very slow
<dtm> http://visualtelephony.sourceforge.net/html/workflow.html
<havoc> for my under-grad thesis I implemented OQL for a Java OODBMS and addedd data manipulation to it
<dtm> i wonder if that's in any way relatable to gnue
<havoc> interesting excercise, but in the end pretty useless
<havoc> jcater: I'm sure :)
<chillywilly> havoc: you don't think it's possible t implement the ODMG standard without creating a full blown OODBMS?
<havoc> jcater: since it's pretty much what you guys do too
<havoc> chillywilly: I haven't really given it any thought
<jcater> chillywilly: the question is more "why would you?" than "could you?"
<havoc> I think a database should be just that, a data "store", nothing more, nothing less
<havoc> so all my apps will work w/ *any* db
<chillywilly> so ppl don't have to do data modeling, but OO modeling of their apps
<havoc> I have zero app logic in the db (cuz it has no buisiness being there), and I use semi-normalized structures
<havoc> and I always use a data access abstraction layer
<havoc> and my "relational" schemas are more or less OO in nature
<havoc> the dat access layer is what handles the OO presentation of the data
<havoc> I also get excellent performance from such designs
<havoc> but they are app specific, not framework like what you're doing
<havoc> so once again, you have the more difficult task
<havoc> but you could implement a general purpose OO layer that can utilize any RDBMS
<chillywilly> right
<havoc> which is what I would do
<chillywilly> there will be a performance hit no doubt, but the tradeoff if you get to think in objects, etc.
<havoc> even when I extended OQL for data definition, I copied ANSI SQL 92's data def lang
<havoc> chillywilly: actually, no performance hit
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<havoc> chillywilly: rather "not necessarily" any performance hit
<chillywilly> well, ok, "possibly" then
<havoc> right
<reinhard> hello all
<chillywilly> hi reinhard
<havoc> hola
<reinhard> anybody here ever burned a dvd under linux?
<havoc> nope
<chillywilly> can't that I have
<reinhard> (i know this is offtopic but #gnuenterprise is still the best help channel) :-)
<chillywilly> er, say
<chillywilly> :)
<jcater> chillywilly: nope
<jcater> but if you'd like to fedex me one
<jcater> I can learn and teach you
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> ugh, sf is evil
<ajmitch> nasssty peopless
<jcater> yes
<ajmitch> " Project CVS Services:  Developer (SSH) CVS access online; pserver-based CVS access and ViewCVS (web-based) access offline"
<jcater> disabling anon cvs and webcvs
<jcater> sucks royally
<jcater> I've been trying to get some commerce stuff off there for 2 days now
<jcater> and can't
<ajmitch> yep, i'm trying to grab webware from cvs for work stuff
<jcater> $-(
<ajmitch> so i'm having to make do with my slightly old local copy, can't install it on the server it needs to be on
<ajmitch> good thing savannah is still up
<chillywilly> it's not permanently down is it?
<ajmitch> no, they said they intended for it to be fixed yesterday
<chillywilly> oh, ok
Action: chillywilly only has some old rotting code on their that he doesn't care about
<chillywilly> :P
<chillywilly> dcl is on SF though, isn't it?
<chillywilly> jcater: I agree with that guy who wrote that article
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> dcl ought to be on savannah, if that's at all possible :)
Action: chillywilly tries to get back to what he was doing
<StyXman> chillywilly: did you catch that c++ bug?
<chillywilly> hmmm?
<reinhard> bummer
<reinhard> there is a program called cdrecord-prodvd
<reinhard> which is written by the author of cdrecord
<reinhard> and is non-free software :-((((
<ajmitch> typical
<revDeke> apt-get install dvdrecord
<revDeke> http://www.nongnu.org/dvdrtools/
<revDeke> reinhard: hopefully that is enough to get you going?
<reinhard> dvdrecord?
<reinhard> ah
<reinhard> in testing :-)
<reinhard> that is exactly what i was looking for
<reinhard> revDeke: thanks
<reinhard> hey 
<reinhard> as i see it
Action: reinhard rubs his eyes
<reinhard> is it _the_ ajmitch??
<ajmitch> nope, can't be
<jcater> will the real aj please stand up, please stand up
Action: ajmitch stands up & looks around the GNUe landscape
<ajmitch> what has happened in GNUe in the last month or so?
<jcater> well
<jcater> um
<jcater> nothing?
<jcater> :)
<ajmitch> oh that's good news :)
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<mdupont> hi
[16:51] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
<mdupont> hey ajmitch, you are here as well!
<mdupont> ;)
<ajmitch> no kidding
<mdupont> its good to see a familar face
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<ajmitch> and chillywilly
<mdupont> yeah, the chillmeister
<mdupont> brr... its chilly in here
<ajmitch> anyway, ask questions if you have them :)
<mdupont> well it is the same old question really about apis, idls and all that
<ajmitch> right
<mdupont> where to start
<mdupont> what idl to use
<ajmitch> umm
<ajmitch> well...
<ajmitch> in what context?
<mdupont> swig
<mdupont> idl
<mdupont> bonobo
<mdupont> gobject
<mdupont> gtk
<mdupont> c#
<mdupont> to name a few
<ajmitch> yes, that's nice & all
<ajmitch> but the appserver deals with business objects, afaik
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<ajmitch> and has it's own xml schema to describe the interface
<mdupont> so another one
<mdupont> sure, business objects, like in sourceforge : projects, packages, releases, bugs, patches
<ajmitch> i'm not up on the latest happenings in that side of GNUe
<ajmitch> chillywilly: are you around to give more info?
<mdupont> well. I should take a look at the gnue again
<ajmitch> yeah
<mdupont> ok, thanks. 
Action: mdupont goes to download gnue again
<jcater> well, you know what they say
<jcater> "everything old is gnue again"
<mdupont> oh, apt says it is installed alread
<ajmitch> ah, jcater is here
<mdupont> hey jcater
<jcater> howdy
<mdupont> i am just thinking about gnue again
<mdupont> it makes sense
<mdupont> ii just am scared at all the different idls out there. 
<mdupont> anyway.
<mdupont> do you first setup a database
<mdupont> then map it into gnue
<mdupont> or do you generate the database from it?
<ajmitch> iirc you could do it either way
<ajmitch> depending on how good the db schema stuff is at the moment
<revDeke> gnue doesnt require ANY idl's
<revDeke> so dont be afraid of them
<revDeke> i use gnue regularly and i have never touched an idl
<revDeke> (at least for gnue)
<mdupont> cool
<mdupont> there is this project, coopx
<mdupont> that is to create an api into sourceforge like systems
<mdupont> all they have is a spec
<mdupont> but they need a transport
<ajmitch> it also depends on whether you want to use GNUe stuff for such applications
<mdupont> that can connect between client/server and server/server
<mdupont> is that more a webservice than a gnue app?
<ajmitch> mdupont: from what i've seen on the dotgnu lists, what's being discussed about transports & stuff is quite similar to gnu-rpc :)
<ajmitch> there seems to be a bit of overlap
<revDeke> oh if its same as what dotgnu is doing then we have messed our spec up
<revDeke> must be wrong 
<ajmitch> heh
<revDeke> j/k
Action: ajmitch thinks that derek is still extremely cynical about anything to do with dotgnu
<mdupont> well dotgnu/gdgee is defining webservices/classes in c# with attributes
<mdupont> from there, youc can create xmlrpc/soap or other transports
<ajmitch> currently it's just C#, but not intended to be limited to that
<mdupont> for implementing the transports
<mdupont> or just call methods in memory
<mdupont> very interesting
<mdupont> it makes sense, because you have only one idl
<ajmitch> revDeke: the overlap is in the transports & service definitions that GNU-RPC aka GComm has in common
<mdupont> i mean, gnue uses postgres for the db transport
<mdupont> what about the rpc?
<mdupont> how can i define a client across the internet?
<mdupont> lets say, you want to provide a sourceforge client from 
<ajmitch> mdupont: the appserver exposes an interface
<mdupont> the command line, a gnue forms, and a web server
<mdupont> all using the same API interface into the appserver
<mdupont> is that theoretically posssible?
<ajmitch> instead of the forms client talking to the db directly, it can use the appserver driver to talk to the appserver (currently just by xml-rpc)
<mdupont> ok, there you go.
<mdupont> but how can you specify that, or is it transparent?
<ajmitch> fairly transparent
<ajmitch> the appserver has an interface definition
<ajmitch> for the forms client, you need to setup a connections.conf entry to tell it what host & transport to use
<ajmitch> grab the source, have a look
<ajmitch> there's some docs as well
Action: ajmitch had the docs available on his box, but that's behind a NAT box for now
<mdupont> ok,
<mdupont> i have the debs installed
<mdupont> i am reading the docs
<mdupont> first i need to setup my postgres
<ajmitch> those docs might not be installed, talking about gcomm
<mdupont> oh
<mdupont> i see
<mdupont> well first,
<mdupont> i setup my postgres db
<mdupont> load the tables
<mdupont> then setup the connections.conf
<mdupont> and fire up the gnue forms
<mdupont> right?
<ajmitch> yeah, if you want to play with those parts
<mdupont> it would be a good start
<ajmitch> bbl
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<jcater> ToyMan: wow... I'm looking at the new dstoys.com catalog
<jcater> very, very slick
<mdupont> hey
<mdupont> i have loaded my tables into postgres
<mdupont> and can see them in psql with \dt
<mdupont> but cannot view them from pgaccess
<mdupont> or anything else
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<ajmitch> hi again
<mdupont> ajmitch: 
<mdupont> i need some tips on postgres
<mdupont> for some reason, i can only see my tables in psql
<mdupont> and not in pgacess 
<mdupont> or in gda
<mdupont> or anything else
<ajmitch> hmm?
<ajmitch> nothing shows?
<ajmitch> you are connecting to the database ok with pgaccess?
<mdupont> yes,
<mdupont> if i dump the db with pgacccess
<mdupont> it contains the source
<ajmitch> right...
<mdupont> well
<mdupont> thanks anyway.
<mdupont> i think i need to go to a stable version
Action: ajmitch doesn't really know much about your problem
<mdupont> thats ok
<mdupont> i need to sleep
<mdupont> thanks
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<chillywilly> darn I missed him
<chillywilly> oh well
<ajmitch> yes
<chillywilly> thanks ajmitch for your reassurance, it is a true testament to the ajmitch->gnue commitment :)
<ajmitch> ummm
<chillywilly> hehehehe
Action: ajmitch doesn't get it
<chillywilly> I was just trying to get you to commit to something ;) It was a joke
<chillywilly> nevermind
Action: chillywilly slaps ajmitch around with a sopping wet trout
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<Chipaca> hi all
<Chipaca> in _dbsig/DBDriver.py, in _buildQuery, in forDetail is non-None, it goes in to build an sql query that is at least broken in its printfity, and probably broken SQL (as in not standard)
<Chipaca> that's line 540 in 20030104 CVS
<Chipaca> to quote:
<Chipaca>      540       q = "%s in (SELECT %s FROM %s%s)" % \
<Chipaca>      541                      (string.join(self._masterfields,","),
<Chipaca>      542                       string.join(self._detailfields,","),
<Chipaca>      543                       self.table, whereClause)
<Chipaca> err, no, the printf isn't broken. Scratch that.
<Chipaca> but foo in (select ...) isn't sql
<Chipaca> at least, postgres doesn't like it one little bit
<jcater> sur eit does
<jcater> gnue=# select * from foobulations where name in (select name from foobulations);
<jcater>  name  |  foodate   | foobs
<jcater> -------+------------+-------
<jcater>  Mandy | 2002-01-04 |   300
<jcater>  Mandy | 2002-02-04 |   402
<jcater>  Mandy | 2002-03-04 |  1000
<jcater>  Mandy | 2002-04-04 |  3301
<jcater>  Candy | 2002-01-04 |    35
<jcater>  Candy | 2002-02-04 |    43
<jcater>  Candy | 2002-03-04 |    63
<jcater>  Sandy | 2002-03-04 |  -203
<jcater> (8 rows)
<jcater> gnue=#
<jcater> it's SQL92 standard, btw
Action: Chipaca blushes
<Chipaca> jcater: rats, got my dbs crossed
<Chipaca> jcater: aa is having trouble with that bit, but he asked me to please ask as he isn't overly experienced on irc yet
<Chipaca> jcater: basically the first two parameters return zit
Action: aa_ bushes now
<jcater> Chipaca: that's currently only used for query-by-detail support in forms
<Chipaca> jcater: so postgresql tries to eat 'in (select from ....)
<Chipaca> jcater: hmmm! we don't have forms that take advantage of that as yet, as far as I know
<jcater> I haven't used it yet either
<jcater> something jamest added
<Chipaca> for some reason our forDetail is getting a value in it, when we aren't doing (AFAIK) a query-by-detail thing
<jcater> hmm
<jcater> how odd
Action: jcater hasn't looked at that code in a while
<jcater> but very odd
<jcater> perchance, do you have a queryDefault set for a detail block's field?
<Chipaca> jcater: this is code aa is trying to bring up to your cvs, so he might've bungled something
<Chipaca> aa_: does it?
<aa_> yup, more than lickely
<aa_> s/ck/k
<Chipaca> aa_: fix. test. repeat.
<Chipaca> :þ
Action: aa_ grabs bucket and shovel and walks off...
<chillywilly> heh
<ajmitch> chillywilly: what did you mean earlier about a lack of commitment?
<ajmitch> is there something that you want me to do?
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<Chipaca> ajmitch: more cvs commits!
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I didn't say "lack"
<Chipaca> :)
<ajmitch> Chipaca: haha :)
<ajmitch> chillywilly: nah, you said you wanted me to commit to something
<chillywilly> ajmitch: I was teasing you
Action: ajmitch sobs
<chillywilly> ajmitch: no worries mate
Action: ajmitch may have to go to windows XP today
<chillywilly> run away!
<chillywilly> run far away!
<chillywilly> what happened to jc?
<chillywilly> he needs top stop arguing with me on the mailing list before I take away his donuts
<chillywilly> ;)
<chillywilly> s/top/to/
Action: ajmitch has yet to test out the gtk2 stuff on windows :)
<chillywilly> bad ajmitch
<chillywilly> ;)
<ajmitch> it's been so good, being able to use debian on this computer
<chillywilly> do you needcygwin for that?
<chillywilly> er, need cygwin
<ajmitch> if i do, it'd only be to get gnue from cvs
<chillywilly> btw, anyone know what's a fast mirror to install cygwin from?
<ajmitch> since there are win32 pygtk binaries 
<chillywilly> most of the ones I pick are too slow so I just cancel after while
<ajmitch> heh
<ajmitch> i've not installed cygwin for ages
Action: chillywilly needs a real shell when forced to use the winders machine ;)
<ajmitch> yes, i can understand that
Action: ajmitch uses putty ;)
<Chipaca> chillywilly: debian.fsl.org.ar works very nicely from here (which is martina.fsl.org.ar...)
<ajmitch> hehe
<chillywilly> yea, but that doesn't help me manipulate files on the winders machine :P
<chillywilly> Chipaca: I don't live in argentina Chipaca
<Chipaca> chillywilly: now that's not my fault is it?
<chillywilly> yes it is
<ajmitch> i find it hard to use windows for anything serious
<chillywilly> you should let me move in ;)
<chillywilly> ajmitch: me too
<Chipaca> chillywilly: no problem!
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> really?!? ;)
<Chipaca> chillywilly: none whatsoever
<ajmitch> airfares & job could be a hassle tho
<chillywilly> wooooo
<chillywilly> I can work for vialibre can't I? ;)
<ajmitch> and paying for things like food, etc ;)
<chillywilly> hehe
<Chipaca> chillywilly: you'd have to talk to perlhead on that one
<chillywilly> heheh
<chillywilly> okey dokey
<Chipaca> chillywilly: I think we're slightly over the budget as we stand :)
<Chipaca> ok, I'm off
Action: Chipaca waves
<ajmitch> bye
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Action: chillywilly looks at threads code
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<chillywilly> hmmmm
<chillywilly> rats
<ajmitch> cats
<chillywilly> I forgot to protect this conditional variable with a mutex
<ajmitch> no big deal
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<ajmitch> it's only a big deal when you don't find out these things ;)
<ajmitch> wb jcater
<chillywilly> jc!
Action: ajmitch rebuilds qt
<ajmitch> oh lovely, gcc has support for precompiled headers now! :)
<ajmitch> that could speed things up a fair bit
<chillywilly> nifty
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<ajmitch> jeff!
<jbailey> andrew!
<jbailey> 'sup?
<ajmitch> causing trouble, like usual
<jcater> wazzup?
<jbailey> I have a few problem sets finished, and then I've done my 1st chapter of finite mathematics.
<jbailey> 2 more to finish by the end of this weekend hopefully.
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<ajmitch> hi IsoosI
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<Zeni> hello
<chillywilly> hi
<Zeni> My emails to the mailing list for some reason are not getting through
<Zeni> I've tried for the past 4 days. :(
<jcater> which list?
<Zeni> gnue@gnu.org
<chillywilly> Zeni: are you using your own mail server?
<Zeni> no... sendmail's smart host is my isp
<chillywilly> k
<Zeni> mail server
<chillywilly> just wondering
<Zeni> :)
<chillywilly> do your emails get returned?
<Zeni> nope
<Zeni> they disappear in the ether
<jcater> Zeni: what's your address?
<jcater> that you sent under?
<Zeni> ejarvi@megsinet.net
<chillywilly> gotta love monty-python.gnu.org
<chillywilly> brb
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<jcater> hmmm
<jcater> nothing in the pending queue
<jcater> and you are on the member list
<jcater> how bizarre
<jcater> chillywilly was having issues for the past few weeks
<Zeni> yep
<jcater> something about the setup of his mail server
<jcater> but I don't remember specifics
<Zeni> hrm
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<Zeni> my emails go through attbi.com
<Zeni> outgoing emails
Action: jcater will email the gnu.org admins and see if they know this is a problem
<ajmitch> hmm?
Action: Zeni nods
<ajmitch> what's broken?
<jcater> you know chilly's mail never seemed to make it thru to monty-python when emailing to the list?
Action: Zeni <-- my emails don't get posted to the mailing list
<jcater> well Zeni is having same issue
<ajmitch> ah
<jcater> do you know if they run spamassassin on these lists?
<jcater> or some other filter?
<Zeni> by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned
<jcater> ?
<Zeni> email header from the list.... 
<Zeni> Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned
<jcater> hrm
<Zeni> and something called tmda-scanned
<ajmitch> yes, they run spamassassin, iirc
<jbailey> tmda is probably the best part about it.  Google will give the best info for you.
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<ajmitch> wb chillywilly
<chillywilly> thanks
<jcater> interesting....
<jcater> I wonder how tmda works in context of email lists
<jcater> either way, if they are using spamassassin with rbl's enabled
<jcater> it's not uncommon for a broadband provider to get blacklisted
<jcater> (happened to my home once, and my office twice)
<jcater> which is why I think those are bad for public mailing lists :)
<ajmitch> unless those headers are being added by attbi.com
<jcater> those headers being?
<jcater> grrrr
<ajmitch> the ones with the spam scanned lines
<jcater> I wish they'd go back to old version of pipermail or whatever
<ajmitch> hmm nope
<jcater> all google links to gnu.org lists are broken
<jcater> :((
<ajmitch> Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13)
<ajmitch> yes, it's _very_ annoying
<ajmitch> i can't grab the mbox version of the list either
Action: Zeni subscribed from my attbi.com addy but no go :(
<Zeni> well any way the gist of my email was rpm's.  http://home.attbi.com/~ejarvi/ and I'll volunteer to be the rpm packager
<ajmitch> ooooh, nice
<jcater> cool
<jbailey> What? People still use RPM distros?
Action: jbailey hides.
<Zeni> heh
<ajmitch> apparantly one or two still do
<chillywilly> not me
<Zeni> gotta go.. my wife is calling ;)
<ajmitch> hehe
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<jbailey> Oh Zeni boy.  The wife, the wife is calling!
<Vee2d2> calling is such a nice way to put it.. 
<chillywilly> heheh
<Vee2d2> it's pretty nice that this isnt an audible medium.. as I'm pretty happy others havent been subjected to my wife's "callings".. =)
<dtm> heheheh
<jbailey> *lol*
<jcater> my wife's calling... "wtf are you still doing on that computer!!!!"
<jbailey> Angie doesn't have to call too loud for me.  One room apartment.
<havoc> heh
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<IsoosI> howdy aj :)
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--- Fri Jan 17 2003