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IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-246-51.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Remosi (dahoose@port-219-88-246-138.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) chillywilly (danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" ariel (~ariel@ppp-217-133-240-150.dialup.tiscali.it) joined #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "All things being equal, fat people use more soap" reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. 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Remosi (dahoose@port-210-54-58-174.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-75.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) johannes_ (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes__ (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 111 (Connection refused) johannes_ (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" johannes (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. hi all mornin btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hello gnu enterprisers! anybody here know of a decent "vt100 in memory" lib to use for screen scraping? Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello grib: WHat's screen scraping? you working with mainframes or what? dsmith: if you dont know what screenscraping is you dont want to know as its vile stuff basically its taking and 'scraping' the image off a terminal screen so you can write a replacement program for it Yep. Best way to describe that is "Eeewwww" revDeke: yeah, basically well better yet it scrapes a screen to grab the data "Web enabled" stupid car dealership systems but generally in last 3 / 4 years the vendors are soooooo obstructionist. people use it to write web apps for terminal based applications to avoid rewrites Action: revDeke regrets to say he has actually had to partake in this vileness in the past. :( revDeke: I'm just trying to get data out of the system to put in a real database. typical full screen terminal crap. grib: unfortunately i did all this work before i was into free software, so i dont knwo whats on the free software market for it seems like all 500 of the terminal emulation progs out there have probably done it. dunno why it's not a library. grib: Check out minicom I guess, that's what's usually on Linux i hear pretell there is a good python program to do this http://pexpect.sourceforge.net/ revDeke: got a name? you wouldnt think it a screenscraper from the definition but if you think outside the box it will do the the job It includes an ANSI/VT100 terminal screen scraping module. ya, I googled that up, and the mention of the work-in-progress sounds nice. not clear how far along it is for that tho. ah, ok, so it's done. excellent! I am also planning a screen scraper. I'm currently working on an ANSI terminal emulator (VT100 compatible). It works, but I don't have any examples yet and it is not extensively tested with real-world applications. generally i find websites to be out of date to cvs so quite likely its usable reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Connection reset by peer reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dsmith notes that this screenscraping stuff sound useful to keep the the bag-o-tricks dsmith just be careful or you end up old and fat and your bag of tricks get to big to carry around so instead you have to sit in irc and sound knowledgeable all the while longing to learn new more fun tricks revDeke: I'm already old and fat heh I hada do stuff like that.. I used freevt3k, on an hp3k system running mpe/xl.. revDeke: that actually looks perfect. I was looking for a python answer anyway. browsing the source, it looks moderately capable, and does what I want. so thanks for the pointer! brb Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: "Got a group logo? http://www.topsew.com/" Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. Action: dsmith sings the chillywilly song to the tune of "wooly-booly" :) Action: chillywilly has ipv6 going now :) Action: chillywilly needs to setup reverse dns revDeke: 1000 thanks for your DVD hint yesterday first burning test already successful so when you gonna put some bootlegs up :) bye Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" you're in europe so I don't think they can touch you :) Action: chillywilly is looking for bootlegs.bytewise.at :P bootlegs? Action: reinhard thinks he doesn't understand that joke dvd rips encoded to a format so you can download the moives ;) and watch them reinhard: also, do you realize what you are doing isn't even legal in the US becase of the DMCA? having only a dvd *player* on GNU/Linux isn't legal in the U$A :( er, well the act of playing a dvd on GNU/Linux is what I mean chillywilly: sure it is, so long as you're nto the one who did the actual circumvention i.e. wrote the software I thought the act of playing it is circumvention cause you are running the software and it decrypts the dvd but you're not the one that did the circumvention otherwise playing a dvd on *anything* would be circumvention but those devices are licensed to do so right? but not necessarily licensed to *you* i.e. buying a used DVD player and using it would be illegal no, but they pay p in order to be able t decrypt the dvds hmm, I suppose I had it a little mixed up oh well not the first time it's stpid fucking law anyway and technically the DMCA is not even legal as it runs afoul of many other pre-existing laws ah, but why did Dmitry sit in jail then? the "fair use" clauses in copyright law allow the playing of DVDs on linux so long as you're not the one that cracked the crypto Dimitry was yet another one of the FBI's collosal mistakes but in order to take advantage of my fair se someone had to break the law er, use he sat in jail because the FBI effectively has no oversight, and no intelligence that 's LAME yes, welcome to America right U$A! [12:47] Last message repeated 2 time(s). it's all about the benjamins the benjamins? bejamin franklin is on the US $100 bill ah, that one. johannes (~johannes@M701P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Client Exiting" http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4417146902.html havoc: http://washingtontimes.com/business/20030116-76668998.htm heheh funny how there's an article linked off of linuxtoday to what we were just talking about ;P reinhard: for the record, i had to go search for that information, didnt come directly from personal knowledge, but i felt this channels reputation for being able to answer nearly any computer problem was at risk ;) and well that just wouldnt be acceptable Action: revDeke still thinks that if people had a clue, they would find gnuenterprise one of the most valuable resources on the internet even if they had no interest in gnuenterprise the project i think this channel is microsofts developers network on steroids 100 fold only for all things *nix holy cow the ceo's children go to a private school they decided over the holiday break to join the Apple Lighthouse program every kid in this K-12 school gets assigned an iBook next fall parents weren't even told about this until after the fact and guess who gets to pay for the ibooks? :) Action: jcater cannot envision assigning a kindergartener an iBook Action: jcater envisions it quickly becoming brokenBook oh i thought you were gonna say you would be enrolling in kindergarten again ;) lol at their prices no thanks though i suppose it would take a powerbook or such to get you to come to class I could buy several ibooks funny thing is their IT staff can't repair their existing computer labs in less than a year apparently now they get hundreds of ibooks to maintain? sounds fun i have some bridges to sell think they might be interested? as long as you can explain to them how the bridges will reinforce their social superiority I bet they would Action: Vee2d2 ponders derek's decision to buy the bridges in the first place.. rofl I don't buy the whole technology in education thing computers are a tool not a teacher yep.. giving qualified teachers computers in their classroom will make that teacher a better teacher giving non-qualified teachers computers will make them even worse teachers at least, that's my $0.02 (USD) so this whole universal technology plan trips me out I live in mississippi this last month we hooked up our last public classroom to the internet now I have to step back and ask what did we accomplish? did we get better teachers in the process? Action: jcater ventures to say no heh though in all fairness that's not all the state did they became the model state this year wrt teacher pay some huge-ass pay increase for teachers and have brought our state's educational system ranking from 40-something into the low teens one of the reasons I moved here as tennessee seems to be going the opposite direction jcater: my wife's a teacher here in Texas where we aretotally in the toilet pay-wise yeah my wife's family is down there tennessee is pretty bad too how can you expect teachers to want to stick around if you pay them sub-standard when I hear people say "You can't just throw money at the problem and make those teachers better" I just want to start hitting people no kidding I think that was a big factor in MS improvement this year 10 yrs ago, or so MS approved instate casinos with the understanding that the extra tax revenue would go to education surprisingly they've held up that end of the bargain the county the casinos are located in is Tunica County heh, I was just ranting about M$ that's a first. and their CAP program it was by far the worse county in the state wrt education (and poverty, etc) it ranks 2nd now iirc and how they're directly degrading the quality of education in this country grib: yeah, it is surprising to me too! but that does reinforce the point that money DOES make a difference as money gets things done money protects money Action: jcater is talking about improving education here, not about upper class grib: where 'bouts in Texas are you? jcater: that's the point, the upper class/wealthy maintain their status by keeping everyone else in the dark and under-educated gotcha and then there's the corporate edu trap I'm not a big fan of overwhelming stereotyping i.e. ITT, M$ CAP, etc... btu I sure do agree w/you :) where a private corporation dictates curiculum and trains ppl *only* on thier commercial products the sad thing is in Arizona people become teachers solely so they can molest children :( http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special21/articles/0115teacher15.html we see a case like this nearly every 6 months we just have ppl imbezeling(sp?) money here embezzling there we go I pity CS students who "learn" VB before anything else they are not "developers", they are VB "users" granted this keeps me at the top of the food chain so to speak but it is still wrong Vee2d2: austin our public school system is financed through property taxes and it's distributed to lower income area by way of something called the robin hood plan where they take money from the wealthy areas and give it to the lower income areas.. but it's a broken system and everyone seems anxious to replace it but nobody knows with what.. grib: ahh.. Fort Worth here.. eh, cool I think the robin hood thing is a pretty good idea overall, but (for example) Austin has among the highest property taxes in the state, but the lowest teacher pay! Action: jcater likes austin mainly because we have to send a lot of money to the Rio Grande Valley area. family lives just west of austin in Llano/Marble Falls area I guess 90 miles west or so I have an old friend who lives in marble falls.. austin's a pretty nice town. i've been here about 10 years and it's definitely not the same place it was when I moved here... most of the changes not to the good either :( they actually live in granite shoals which is like the next town down the road (5 minutes) from marble falls Action: pattieja is away: working Vee2d2: national education standards would be a start fire 90% of the Fed. Dept. of Education too all we need is a federal standards body, nothing more gah bloddy hell RR flaked :< that thrid manifesto thing is intesrting those guys claim a true relational db has never been developed chillywilly: I say "who cares?" does it really matter? idela in theory is rarely ideal in practice sure, because they claim db technology can get better trying to build a true 'relational' system chillywilly: until I see something "real" as opposed to "theoretical" I'll stick with what's known and works ;P well, just in fairness I wouldn't dismiss these guys I understand the need for ongoing research seeing as it was them who developed the beloved SQL to begin with I just don't like unsubstantiated claims and now they are saying, hey, it's time to move on dude keeps quoting noam chomsky I couldnt get past the 's on that page.. jcater: I have a ~10% finished "OODBMS" project I've been messing w/ for years aaah, I like the TJ quote though :P havoc: I'm sorry it's nice in theory, but it would not work right now even if it were finished because it is incompatible with the current developer mindset you couldn't pay me to do anything in oodbms I say "OODBMS" as opposed to OODBMS because that's just what I call it for lack of a better term Action: chillywilly prefers odms it's basically a "bag" of objects that are searchable of course, for long term projects (which is all I ever program for) I never program for the current developer mindset havoc: that's what gnue appserver has right now ;) Action: jcater sticks w/stuff w/a good foundation that's been around for a while with a special "relationship" object I subscribe to the theory that data in itself has no value dewd it's the relationships between data that gives the data value ODL has a 'relationship' keyword e.g. 'c' 'a' 't' by themselves have little meaning/value relate them sequentially and you have a word so my "bag" db uses O(1) hashes to reference any object and uses the "relationship" hash to access them the relationship class has some basic OID structures, the rest is "meta" data to describe the relationship havoc: big O notation is not allowed here ;) and the class has "reflection" methods to query available metadata chillywilly: would you prefer relational calculus? or prolog? well, I prefer to just rip offf the ODMG meta data api ;) yea I want it all so anyway, the system is implemented in C++ and test cases were blazing give it to me now!!! this is something I started writing almost 6 years ago haven't touched it for quite some time and to make it "usuable" I patterned the query lang after ANSI SQL 92 although I had to add some other BNF crap to ANSI SQL to handle reflection for querying among some of the other stanger OO related stuff "The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of the lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." Thomas Jefferson too bad it happened before most of us were born well one has to wonder what was going on in TJ's time if he didn't see it happpening already it had less impact then as there wasn't the infrastructure for any single private entity to affect any significantly large number of people heh, a Skinner quote "Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless." B. F. Skinner haven't seent hat name since psych class er, that skinner from 'the simpsons'? nope B.F. Skinner the famous behavioral psychologist more so than Dr. Spock ;) hmmm, well he's from back in da day unlike Dr. Spock "live long and prosper" ;) sorry, couldn't help myself ;P pathfndr24 (~chris@66.238.128.39) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) StyXman (~mdione@ADSL-200-59-86-138.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?" dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." grib (~grib@grib.customer.jump.net) left irc: "I'm too lame to make a quit message" chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. cw2 (danielb@gandalf.libertyetech.com) joined #gnuenterprise. cw2 (danielb@gandalf.libertyetech.com) left irc: "BitchX for president." revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left #gnuenterprise. "Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless." B. F. Skinner it sure does. old skinner ;) jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left #gnuenterprise. IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-245.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" reinhard (~reinhard@M692P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "This sentence no verb" IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-245.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Action: pattieja is back (gone 04:51:06) chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) got netsplit. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. hey did you guys know some users still download tar/balls and compile ;) sick same silly punks compile their own kernels too Action: derek ducks before a trout is swung in his direction havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) got netsplit. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) got netsplit. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-156.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-156.jet.net.nz) got netsplit. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) got netsplit. IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-156.jet.net.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. pattieja (~pattieja@www.pcxperience.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. weeeee that was fun let's do it yet again! IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-156.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) yeah again [20:08] Last message repeated 1 time(s). pizza pizza! again again! Action: derek is away: haircut bout time you long haired hippie freak Action: jcater is away: window displays Action: derek is back (gone 00:28:45) IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-246-65.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-246-65.jet.net.nz) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) chillywilly more of my mom's humor for you Why it Sucks to be an Egg 1. You only get laid once. 2. You only get eaten once. 3. It takes you 7 minutes to get hard (in boiling water). 4. You have to come in a box with 11 other guys. 5. The only one that sits on your face is your mother. lol she's a sick puppy I'll tell ya Action: Vee2d2 has been playing w/images.google.com ... 202.31.152.27:8080/gnue/intro/campus.htm ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl1-81.citlink.net) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:618:4:14da:0:0:0:2) left irc: "Free Your Enterprise! - http://www.gnuenterprise.org" howdy ToyMan chillywilly (~danielb@frodo.libertyetech.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wb chillywilly sup like the new hostname :)? Action: chillywilly just setup ipv6 zones with bind neat now I shold switch tnnel providers to see if it's any better as ipng.org.uk licks balls for me Action: chillywilly has an account at http://tunnelbroker.net dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith! psu (psu@81.98.44.42) joined #gnuenterprise. psu! da very same yep yep IsoosI (dahoose@port-219-88-247-118.jet.net.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. nope nope --- Sat Jan 18 2003