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<btami> good morning
<Vee2d2> howdy btami
<ajmitch> hi
<reinhard> good morning all
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<Arturas> Hello
<ra3vat> hello Arturas
<Arturas> hi Dmitry :)
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<SachaS> hi everyone
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<lupo> hi
<lupo> has CVS head stabilized?
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<ra3vat> johannes_: wb
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<Arturas> Hello
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<KeithJagrs> hello
<KeithJagrs> ;)
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<lupo> back again
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<chillywilly> hey ToyMan
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<ToyMan> hey chilly
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<jcater> word up, all
<ajmitch> hey c
<ajmitch> hmm
Action: ajmitch pressed the 'j'
Action: ajmitch blames vnc - good an excuse as any :)
<ra3vat> hi all
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Action: psu has arrived
Action: chillywilly sounds the trumpets
Action: psu sounds the crumpets
<chillywilly> HEH
<havoc> chillywilly: hey
<chillywilly> hi
<havoc> chillywilly: you coming to get that tape at all?
<chillywilly> does those guys in #pugglewump have anything to do with pugglewump.org?
<havoc> yes
<havoc> I host it even
<chillywilly> I don't have  a way to get there
<havoc> ah
<chillywilly> HEH
<havoc> I told you they were strange :)
<chillywilly> I should've came ove ryesterday evening but I was trying to make myself apply for some jobs ;)
<havoc> I'll be here tonight
<havoc> just have to go pick up a truck ~4pm
<chillywilly> oh, ok
<chillywilly> then I can bum my mom's car
<chillywilly> erm
<chillywilly> well actually
<havoc> then run over to Sussex ~9pm
<chillywilly> I am going to chruch tonight
<chillywilly> almost forgot
<chillywilly> ;P
Action: psu is away: bath
<chillywilly> to practice my guitar to play during service on sunday
<chillywilly> havoc: I am very disrganied right now
<chillywilly> disorganized
<havoc> nice
<chillywilly> we should do lunch
<chillywilly> I'll have my people call you people ;)
<chillywilly> your
<chillywilly> lol
<chillywilly> plus seems I am forgetting everything too
<chillywilly> like to watch farscape
<chillywilly> DOH
<chillywilly> I dunno but it seems to me may be the show is dying a bit as it seems they are running ot of good ideas
<chillywilly> this next espisode seems like it has been done before
<chillywilly> they all get 'sick' wiht some invisible virus
<chillywilly> wtf
<chillywilly> the earth episode was borderline stupid
<chillywilly> hmmm...
<chillywilly> I love the story but the pointless 'filler' episodes are bugging me
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<StyXman> hello
<havoc> hmm, it appears that SCO is trying to commit suicide
<StyXman> havoc: due to the sysv thing?
<havoc> yeah
<chillywilly> whatcha talkin' bout?
<StyXman> they loose the way to live, yes
<havoc> they only need to lean on one linux vendor or BSD and they're done for
<havoc> it would be wise for all linux vendors to collectively defend themselves
<StyXman> chillywilly: they try to put a fee to any thing that uses the system V 
<havoc> as SCO is directly threatening linux/BSD in general
<havoc> StyXman: not restricted to SysV
<StyXman> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/01/13/0111216&mode=thread&tid=163
<StyXman> havoc: now that I read it again, you're right
<StyXman> patent shit
<havoc> StyXman: they're gonna try to get whatever they can however they can
Action: psu is back (gone 00:22:52)
<havoc> well, it's the end of them
<havoc> ppl need to realize that a license can be anything, including exclusionary
<StyXman> how would I like to have little nukes, y'know...
<havoc> an author can license code under say the GPL for everyone *but* SCO
<StyXman> or be a good snipper
<havoc> and for SCO charge inordinate amounts
<StyXman> anyway, what's the GFEntry's _maskHandler for?
<jcater> havoc: suicide?
<jcater> SCO died a horrible death 3-4 years ago
<havoc> jcater: yes
<jcater> this is just their ghost with unresolved issues
<jcater> trying to cross over
<StyXman> hehehehe
<jcater> :)
<StyXman> jcater: can I bother you w/ a litlle question?
<StyXman> please, I'm begging you :)
Action: jcater looks around
<jcater> who, me?
<StyXman> noone else, man
<StyXman> any other jcater's here, please stand up
Action: StyXman hears the sound of silence around
<jcater> StyXman: no
<jcater> that's the sound of me running
<jcater> what's up?
<StyXman> :)
<StyXman> so, GFENtry.
<StyXman> if it has only a typecast, the displaymask attribute is honored
<StyXman> but
<StyXman> if it has a style, the _maskHAndler is used and the displaymask attr is ignored.
<StyXman> how should I make the _maskHandler so it honors the displaymask attr?
<StyXman> I know that displaymask's don't work
<StyXman> but I'm implementing them here till they're done.
<jcater> iirc, there is code commented out that handles
<jcater> that
<jcater> but it's been a while
<StyXman> jcater: what kind og object should be a _maskHandler?
Action: StyXman thinks in replacing them w/ displaymask's till they're implemented, but first wants to do it the-right-way (tm)
<jcater> common/FormatMask/*Mask.py
<chillywilly> hjave you guys read the talkbacks on the so-called new site?
<StyXman> and d'you remember how should I put that to work?
<StyXman> chillywilly: ah?
<chillywilly> about SCO
<chillywilly> the author makes up words that don't exist and they have a "Linux powered" logo but run IIS
<StyXman> chillywilly: dunno what 'cha talki' 'buot.
<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> the SCO article linked form crashdot
<chillywilly> from
<StyXman> !!!
<chillywilly> about the SysV thing dude
<StyXman> yeah, I goto it
<StyXman> from the link I sent, or the other story?
<chillywilly> the link to the real deal
<chillywilly> http://www.sys-con.com/linux/articlenews.cfm?id=381
<StyXman> and jcater: why the difference?
<psu> isn't democracy grand?
<psu> I have my electoral registration set up
<psu> so my wife is my proxy voter
<psu> (dates back to when I was a consultant travelling country)
<psu> but
<psu> as an experiment, next local elections are being held totally by post
<StyXman> psu: usa?
<psu> so they;ve written to ask if, under the circumstances, 
<psu> I'd rather they sent the postal vote to me, not her ;-)
<psu> StyXman: UK
<psu> the govt are trying various experiments to stop turnouts falling to USA levels ;-)
<StyXman> psu: well, at least they ask.
<psu> One ward in this city had IIRC an 8% turnout recently
<StyXman> ward, turnout?
<psu> ward = council district
<StyXman> I don't speak english
<StyXman> aha.
<psu> turnout = % of people on register who actually vote
<psu> city = big place with much traffic and shops for wife ;-)
<StyXman> :)
Action: psu notes that they are not trying postal-only voting in Northern Ireland
<StyXman> ah, here the vote is obligatory...
<psu> as the authentication problems are too difficult
<StyXman> and they may get anthrax
<psu> "Personation" is a long-standing tradition in Northern Ireland
<psu> "Sure, and he was so  popular, that the dead rose from their graves to vote for him..."
<StyXman> ah, here we got the same.
<StyXman> we have so alive dead people, that they even vote twice or thrice :)
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<chillywilly> HEH
<chillywilly> voting by mail?
<chillywilly> they are doing this so people will be more likely to vote?
<psu> "I, the returning officer for fooland central, do declare the results as:
<psu> "Hiram J. Checkbouncer 10 votes, Postman Pat 11,456 votes"
<psu> chillywilly: they've been experimenting with various ideas
<psu> all-mail ballots is the only thing that seems to make a significant difference
<psu> boosts local election turnouts from about 30% to about 60%
<StyXman> well, I've been thinking on how that system works.
<StyXman> I mean, again, here the vote is obligatory.
Action: chillywilly wants to vote online cause he doesn't want to have to get up from his computer ;)
<StyXman> also, we have a very high.. uh, analphabet? analphabetism? level
<psu> StyXman: illiterate?
<StyXman> so a lot of people votes, but not knowing all the consequences
<StyXman> psu: that one
Action: StyXman will read a dictionary soon
<psu> in India, ballots have party's registered symbols on for illterate voters
<psu> StyXman: your english is 1000% better than my spanish ;-)
<jcater> se habla burrito?
<StyXman> so, the candidates can easily capture voters by using all kinds of triks
<StyXman> er, tricks
<StyXman> psu: the illiterate unable to read is not my concern
<psu> jcater: ein big mac, ein groB pommes frites und ein kaffe, bitte
<psu> that exhausts my German as well ;-)
<StyXman> what worries me is that they don't understand (well, who does, now that I think about it...)
<StyXman> coffee, big mac and fries?
<StyXman> bon jour monsieurs
Action: psu remembers trying to help an Italian woman on london metro once - v. bad french was our only common language
Action: psu should have tried python
<psu> if self.desired_destination() == "baker Steet":
<psu>    self.go("Platform 9")
<StyXman> :)
<StyXman> I mean, a lot of people also don't care 'bout the country, just themselves.
<StyXman> and I don't blame them
<StyXman> but that (may) leads to very bad outcomes.
<StyXman> I think I can't express myself clearly but in spanish.
Action: jcater wanders off in search of a spair donut
<psu> StyXman: you're doing fine 
<psu> hmm
<psu> anyone know where generate-feature-plan.py is?
<psu> I can't seem to find it anywhere sensible in the code tree
<jcater> common/utils I'm sure
<psu> doh!
Action: psu was looking in docs
<StyXman> little things like whether we should sign contracts w/ the IMF or not and that kinda stuff
<StyXman> or where to put money.
<StyXman> or how to kick idiots out ot they power places.
<StyXman> agh
Action: StyXman is depressed now
<psu> StyXman: cheer up, it could be worse. You could still be a British "economic colony"
<StyXman> psu: well, a good yoke here is to think back when the brits tried *twice* to invade us.
<havoc> ah, the Reagan years
<StyXman> the history says that we repeled them w/ hot oil
<havoc> haha
<psu> ISTR we used to own most of the Argentinian corned beef industry
<StyXman> havoc: er, nope. 'round 1800
<havoc> and exocet crusie missles
<havoc> wait
<havoc> that's faulklands
<psu> havoc: les malvinas
<havoc> who "owns" the fauklands?
<havoc> now?
<StyXman> havoc: nope, I talk about the two invasions that reached bsas at the beggining of 19th century
<havoc> StyXman: ah
<StyXman> the problem in that time was that only spain could trade w/ the whole south america.
<havoc> so who "owns" the fauklands now?
<jcater> I do
<jcater> they just don't know it yet
<havoc> http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/refmaps.html
<psu> jcater: they only have sheep, not donuts
<StyXman> and england were in expansion
<jcater> psu: drats
<psu> oh, and penguins
<psu> real ones, that is
<havoc> ok, as I thought, Argentina
<StyXman> well, kelpers don't like the idea of being part o' our country. I don't blame them.
<havoc> StyXman: the little skirmish over them was what I thought you were refering to earlier
<StyXman> I have a record that the ONU recognizes them as ours, but even chilean maps says they belong to uk
<havoc> StyXman: CIA has them listed as "Administered by UK, Claimed by Argentina"
Action: psu wonders if CIA lists USA as "Administered by Bush, Claimed by Gore" ;-)
<StyXman> :))
<StyXman> well, that skirmish rises very oppossed feelings here.
<havoc> StyXman: I thought the UK was effectively repelled?
<jcater> psu: I think it's more like "Administered by Bush (sr), Claimed by Bush (jr)" 
<havoc> GW will be the death of us all
<StyXman> havoc: 'we' get hold of pt stanley/pt argentino
<StyXman> but the brits bring more fire power than we and kicked us out.
<havoc> ah
<havoc> hence the "Administered by UK"
<StyXman> ???
<havoc> StyXman: on the map
<StyXman> havoc: er, sorry.
<StyXman> ??? means *shrug*
<havoc> ah
<StyXman> well, I dont' think we'll ever get them back. 
<havoc> I never understood "imperialism" in the first place
<StyXman> and now there are reports that there is some petroleum down there
<havoc> at least when there is no financial gain
<StyXman> havoc: well, just like asuncion , they're very strategic points
<havoc> I'm sure they had greater military significance to the UK at the time
<havoc> than financial
<havoc> right
<havoc> that's why the US has Hawaii
<StyXman> yes, mb now that wars are different, they may loose they significance.
<psu> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/clandan/20th_falklands_reunion.htm
<havoc> islands aren't good for industry as shipping costs are high
<havoc> StyXman: I think we're pretty much done with wars between "1st" world nations
<psu> main economic interest up till now has been fishing 
<psu> as it allows UK to claim a 200 mile radius fishing zone
<StyXman> psu: maybe, but it souns rather a weak excuse
<havoc> psu: yeah, but there must be cheaper fishing closer to the UK
<havoc> of course "people" don't make war, "governments" do
<StyXman> wars now are of two kinds:
<havoc> most "people" are content to live their lives, drink their beer, and have their families
<StyXman> guerrillas, like in northern ireland or israel
<havoc> "governments" tend to get in the way of that
<havoc> StyXman: yeah, domestic terrorism
<StyXman> or wars that boost some countries economies
<havoc> StyXman: I sincerely believe that religion should be utterly banned from politics and government
<StyXman> havoc: hmmm
<havoc> *organized* "religion" (all of them) are responsible for the majority of strife in human existence
<havoc> everyone wants to kill in the name of God(s)
<StyXman> well, don't get me started :)
<havoc> pretty poor excuse if you ask me
<havoc> StyXman: heh, yeah, bad topic
<StyXman> religions are good for people.
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<StyXman> but some are too ... er, ... close-minded?
<havoc> StyXman: personal religion is a good thing, "organized" religion as a political entity/tool is what I have a problem with
<StyXman> havoc: ah, I get the point
<havoc> StyXman: i.e. I have my own personal beliefs, but I don't wish to force them on others
<StyXman> havoc: some times that's not the problem
<StyXman> sometimes is just that 'that piece of land is *ours*'
<havoc> StyXman: I understand that the "terrorists" of any faith are a minority of extremists
<StyXman> but religions may or may not be in the middle.
<havoc> StyXman: I'm not saying the religions are responsibly for all strife, just most of it
<StyXman> havoc: yes.
<havoc> except maybe buhdists
<havoc> but they may even have thjeir own extremists for all I know
<StyXman> havoc: like ghandi? ;)
<havoc> and as much as I believe in the right to have your own beliefs, I think religions that in anyway encourage the killing of others for no other reason than "god says to do it" should be banned from civilized societies in order to protect human society in general
<havoc> StyXman: heh :)
<StyXman> brb
<havoc> StyXman: I'm reminded of UHF (Weird Al movie) w/ Ghandi II - Bloodsport
<havoc> or whatever it was :)
<StyXman> well, that's a very hard point.
<StyXman> uh?
<havoc> StyXman: 80's movie w/ Weird Al Yankavich
<havoc> comedian
<havoc> had funny fake commercials in it
<havoc> like a spoof of Rambo, but with Ghandi instead
<havoc> well, time for me to go pick up a truck
<havoc> helping parents move
<havoc> later
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Action: chillywilly was just reading the bible
<chillywilly> I am sick of ppl harping on organized religion as the "cause" for their hardships as if their sinful lives have nothing to do with the reason they are where they are
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<chillywilly> http://www.inspire21.com/site/stories/Tell_God_out.html
Action: psu loves the way "organised religion" is always used as a pejorative term
<psu> like, people would prefer "disorganised religion"?
<psu> And why is "do-gooder" always an insult?
<psu> Would people prefer a "do-badder"?
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<StyXman> chillywilly: if God is perfect, He should know how to handle when people just chooses anything else.
<StyXman> *but*, I'm not going to start a religion flame here.
<psu> StyXman: free will == lack of a "control-freak" God
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<StyXman> psu: I understand that most of things God said are good advices, like 'don't kill', but...
<StyXman> then came men and spoiled everything :)
<chillywilly> right
<chillywilly> and then cam Jesus to save us all :)
<chillywilly> so we still have hope
<psu> free will without forgiveness is a burdon
<psu> free will with forgiveness is an opportunity ;-)
<StyXman> unless there is a way to let people do what they want, there's a need of rules. christian/catholic religion is a good try to impose them.
<StyXman> burdon?
<StyXman> but some rules are (seems to me) a little anachronic
<psu> burdon == opressive weight
<chillywilly> http://www.sbcpray.net/biblepathway/welcome.asp <-- I would recommed eveyone to make it a goal to read the whole bible this year :) How many are willing to even accept this challenge?
<psu> burden
<psu> my spelling is going
<jcater> chillywilly: I am certainly not
Action: jcater has this much time: ><
<chillywilly> all it take sin 15 mins a day
<StyXman> chillywilly: well, maybe I will
<chillywilly> er, takes is
<StyXman> I'm a little... curious
<jcater> and I have this much interest too: ><
<chillywilly> well I am not going to beat on it
<StyXman> but, and no offense here, I still think is a illusion, that for most people is right, but an illusion at last.
<StyXman> if not, why are there so many religions? and so different?
<StyXman> God's words should be only one.
<psu> jcater: there's always the "Executive Summary" at John chapter 3 verse 16
<StyXman> er, excuse me. I didn't plan to express my feelings about it.
<chillywilly> psu: :)
Action: jcater had to memorize entire chapters as a child
Action: jcater still mostly knows Ephesians 6
<jcater> bleh
[16:52] Last message repeated 2 time(s).
<StyXman> I fear some of you may be a little sensitive
<jcater> StyXman: now, you can't have that attitude around here
<jcater> if you aren't offending someone
<jcater> then it shouldn't be said in #gnuenterprise
<jcater> or isn't that the rule?
<jcater> :)
<StyXman> :)
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<chillywilly> see you made psu go away ;)
<chillywilly> j/k
<StyXman> :)
<StyXman> I hope he prays before sleeping
<chillywilly> what does it matter to you?
<StyXman> well, God, does he exist or not, is watching :)
<chillywilly> just asking ;)
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<StyXman> question: why did yo choose python instead of postcript?
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<StyXman> :)
Action: pattieja is away: home
Action: chillywilly is away: wednesday night practice
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<StyXman> jamest: er, I got a very ugly way to return things
<StyXman> but works anyways.
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