that's not a pretty thing to see on a debian machine :) wtf? can't she use GAIM? yeah... but, um, her husband didn't know she needed an instant messenger crap. women are irritating sometimes, aren't they? My wife won't tell me what kinds of games she wants to play, she just insists on using IE and activex to play them. funny thing, though. I watched her play a few games on whatever website she plays them on, and wouldn't you know? I could point out a post in the K menu where she could run local versions of the same games. er, post = spot Action: frayed has been type postgre too much lately give her frozen bubbles :) my wife wouldn't let me touch her win98 machine I don't understand why you'd use the fastest computer in the house to rdp into the slowest computer in the house to play games. until she saw me playing that addictive game and she wanted it on her machine she hates frozen bubbles, she's seen me play it too much. ;) sometimes it's the damnest things that make ppl click :) isn't it written in perl? So theoretically should run on windows too..... well, I don't think it uses a GUI-abstraction library but I could be wrong that's irrelevant anyway! I've been under the impression, and it could be false, that the windows implementaiton of perl understands gui stuff yer right, though, it is irrelevant. There's plenty of spyware-loaded games just like frozen bubble freely available for windows! I didn't think it was abtracted though Action: frayed doesn't know much about perl Action: frayed knew a dog named perl once, she had bad breath. my wife likes clanbomber, though. come to think of it, for awhile the neighborhood kids were coming over just to play clanbomber. Then this one kid whose dad has spent like 15 years doing contract work for Microsoft went home and asked his dad to download clanbomber. So his dad asked me where he could get clanbomber. for some reason I momentarily forgot that clanlib is a cross-platform library. sometimes I forget things like that. so his kid isn't allowed to come over any more. too much freedom in my house, I guess. wow ninja (rossg@203.146.54.188) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) jcater: one word kmerlin install it and she will ditch MSN Messenger under win4lin grrr looks like my net connection bit the dust sigh I don't like the idea of having to install their kernel.... Action: frayed is possessive about his kernel frayed: understandable I do have it on 4 machines... 2 of which are diskless servers in a call center for over a year now take that for what it's worth ninja (rossg@p13-sniHS3.S.loxinfo.net.th) joined #gnuenterprise. you have to periodically shut down the windows window and reopen it? ;) VMWare doesn't appear to require a kernel, but it's also $299 but it'll run win2k it's also slow, from what I hear er, what I meant to say was vmware doesn't appear to require its own special kernel heh. it only has to be at least as fast as rdp-ing into a 300mhz K6 running win2k Server. :) but $299 is too much for me right now. I could spend two weeks throwing something together. I'm willing to either give up online banking (saving $5/month) or work up a hack to get my account from their website (also saving $5/month) I had inspiration earlier and the database schema for a home financial program magically materialized in my head. :) oh yeah, I also have to spend $50 to get an adapter to make my camera work with my GNU/Linux boxes. upon further reflection, I think I'd really prefer to build-my-own this time. I have too many problems with Quicken besides the OS problem. Quicken is holding my data hostage! :( what camera? olympus D-520 zoom i stopped using the quicken the day i was 10 dollars out of balance and it asked me theoretically, the new kernel is supposed to support it with usb 'so chief you just want me to throw that 10 away for you?' hah Action: derek was flabbergasted um it has to go 'somewhere' thats what double entry means I've never been out of balance with it, so I haven't seen that. Action: derek notes thats when i realized it wasnt 'double entry' quickbooks is even worse Action: frayed doesn't know the first thing about double entry if you want to do odd journal entries (Which are legal in the accounting world) posting to multiple accounts it freaks and says "whoa chief you can only post to one account" Action: derek was like WTF as long as the debit equals the credit i better damn well be able to charge to the accounts i created but thats another rant jcater: to your earlier comment "i do live" ;) i might actually be back :) jcater: also looks like the web client is busted on ash when i go to it i get *** An error occured: Looking up address: Resource temporarily unavailable Disconnected brb GnuCash has nice double entry ;) no yes GnuCash has double entry but my god what's the deal? the latest version expects you to be an accountant you just open the register I can handle it just fine and I am not an accountanrt bt I did read the tutorial many moons ago man, I gave GNUcash a couple of bangs I could probably figure it out, but my *wife* has got to use it too. she doesn't like being told what to do...... Action: chillywilly doesn't think it is that difficult hmmm, i wish there was python2.2-qt3 package in the archive jcater: what version? im on 1.6 i think what was in debian sid as of a month ago but just did apt-get update; apt-get upgrade on sid for first time in over a month and have a butt load of entry in gnucash to do Version: 1.6.6-1 it was 1.7.x stuff iirc Action: derek hopes i havent shot myself in the foot Action: derek cries erm no Version: 1.7.8-1 i noticed with 1.7 release and pending 1.8 release that traffic on their list went from 1 a day or so to about 300 a week :( im screwed Action: derek smacks self i need to have wifey (home) machine on woody grrrr so mad at myself good thing it has so many dependencies its likely it got held back ;) Action: jcater will do some gnue screens for myself some day soon YES! gnucash was held back Action: derek does happy happy joy joy dance jcater: actually i never use gnucash much as i have been banking on line (to monitor account balances) as short of know 'how much money is the account' gnucash was useless to me as it didnt have budgeting features no kidding and if i cant compare a budget to my actuals I was a MS Money die-hard what is the point of keeping detailed actuals until 2001 (when I got on the GNU track) I loved MSMoney back then really loved it short of keeping the bank honest and gnucash didn't do a single thing that I'd come to depend on Money for unless you have budget to match it against :-/ but thats just me budgeting being one of those i was going to extend gnucash to do budgets until i looked at the code another being scheduled transactions and payment reminders calendar? quicken's calendar rocks. frayed: I wasn't saying quicken didn't do it I need to create a budget just gnucash afaict, money and quicken were neck-to-neck I started in with quicken for budgeting, a couple of years ago. Then I got hooked into other 'features' I got money via one of those free rebate offers s/money/MSMoney and the scheme (plugins) jcater: i use bank now for payment minders and scheduled transactions they may still be neck'n'neck, but I tried a pirated money and never touched it again. Then I decided I wanted to create a couple of reports that weren't already made, and found their reporting engine to be, uh, lacking. derek: I use crontab for reminders :) HEH So I thought "hm, shouldn't a finance package use a real database instead of some stupid proprietary file?" chillywilly: I'm not kidding I even upgraded when they commanded me to do so, I was so in love with it every tuesday at 1:00 pm I get an email to remind me to water my office plants (that's one example :) you willing to share that ? thats a gnue app i want to write a 'reminders' program there are lots out there but most have sucky ui and almost none use email im at diff computers all the time and forget to start the 'apps' that notify but my home pc is on 24/7 and i read email regularly sounds like a basic calendar with notification jcater: no kalarm with kraganizer? korganizer chillywilly: I've been meaning to play with that Action: frayed loves KDE, hates KDE PIM software. but I don't thing that's the same thing it will remind you of appointment on your calendar if I'm at my main desk, yeah ninja (rossg@p13-sniHS3.S.loxinfo.net.th) left irc: "Client Exiting" if you make a recurring appointment to water your plants at 1pm every day it should work it needs to be a daemon, and send email outward or something well hw does email help if your not at your desk? 'cause he's at different desks all the time does python have cross-platform access to the OSs scheduler? Os's scheduler? like crontab on unix, and whatever windows uses. I assume OS X uses cron too. oh dunno OS X is built on top of FreeBSD I guess a better question is, does GNUe have cross-platform access to the OSs scheduler? so I would think it uses cron there's no support for that at all the way I understood it is that apple wanted to focus on interface, and still have a reliable OS. So they grabbed BSD and trashed X dunno about python itself, but I am not aware of any apis to manipulate cron they have X I seem to remember that wxWindows offers that kind of access, but you might have trouble with an ncurses interface well kde has a cron gui program what I really need Action: frayed doesn't totally understand os x, heh. is a daemon that'll water my plants for me then it wouldn't matter what I use for appointments that doesn't sound too hard, jcater. it's actually single server freebsd running on the Mach microkernel if you wanan get technical ;) a few water lines with an electrical valve. plug it into your parallel port. then have cron echo the appropriate character to fire the valve, along with enough repetitions to water it for the appropriate period of time. a few parts from radio shack and home depot, and you're done. building automation system,s that's an col area for free software frayed: I seriously considered doing something like that I really want an indoor kitchen garden with herbs man, what was jeff talking to me about the other day and those herbs are tricky wrt being picky about water schedules and I'm never home so I seriously considered something like that :) it's sunlight that I have trouble with. I can water fine, but I never seem to get sunlight to the plants. So they always turn brown and die anyway. then reminded myself I already have too many irons in the fire ho yea, developing a commercial fire alarm system with Free software using umm that one netwrk management protocol s/ho/oh/ SNMP snmp? yea so you can go to your shell and say "hey fire alarm, how ya doin?" and it'll say "just fine" ? lol well the place I worked for had a networked fire alarm system(s) used lke a data loop fr devices they would say whether they were dirty or not smoke heads that is etc. you can even network whole panels together etc. "Hi hal, how are you?" "My heads are dirty dave" basically the main panel polls the mapnet(tm) circuits I used to live in an apartment with a smoke alarm that I swear was networked with the whole building. It had power leads coming from the ceiling, but the power leads had 5 wires! AC probably old shit I don't understand what it'd need 5 wires for. Of course, I don't know much about AC myself. DC makes sense, AC doesn't. I finally concluded that it wasn't networked, though, because I unplugged it and left it that way for over a year without getting in trouble. it probably wasn't super vised supervised the power to the detector that is you need all those wires for various things, they can be hooked up the alarm relays, door holder relays, etc. fire alarm systems have various control functions dropping doors, recalling elevators, etc. AHU shutdown I suppose they may have needed it in someone's building, but we didn't have elevators or any other automation. But that doesn't mean the alarm system didn't support it, it just wasn't used. if one of them went off did all the horns in the building go off? nope. then it was stand alone Action: frayed set his off a couple of times, that's why it was unplugged. believe me I've had to jerry rig some newer stuff into an old AC system with some relays and transformer, etc. and it was not fun ;P I sorta have ah abit of unplugging those things. hey, anybody come up with a utility to take these xml schema files and show them graphically, with relationships and all? there was a gsd plugin or somehting that jcater was working non so you could design schema with designer dunno what's the status though probably not functional right noe now jcater: I thought the library schema was supposed to show mater-detail stuff I didn't see any foreign keys in there man they are deactivating my 6bone tunnel bastids I can't help ym server HD took a shit oh well I have to recreate the zones for the /64 prefix anyway cause thse files went bye bye zone files that is I think instead of calling him Jar Jar Binks, they should've called him Cur Sor Blinks HEH can anyone pign ns1.libertyetech.com? ping* --- ns1.libertyetech.com ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% loss, time 15615ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 87.369/108.510/137.769/20.851 ms hmmm I'm in the seattle area, and my isp is based in boston, but that shouldn't make a difference from where I'm at. Ia m wonder why the tunnel broker won't let me enter ns1.libertyetech.com as a nameserver wondering Action: frayed can't help you there. all I know about dns I learnt from slashdot. so all I know is that nobody really knows anything about it. :) bt gandalf.libertyetech.com works maybe I need to give it more time to propagate what does "type="key"" mean in a schema file? specifically? what kind of tag? hmm, ns2 works thogh wtf maybe I typed somethign wrong in zoneedit my business partner has been using MS Office for decades (well, a long time). I recently got him switched out ot openoffice.org (simple task, I said "dude, I can't even run MS Office") now he's telling me about how powerful openoffice.org is, surprisingly. ;) honestly i think oo is a better product i.e. if you never had been exposed and had no legacy of ms office i think open office is nice I've been pretty happy with it. we've been ultimately intending to run the business with only free software, and using GNUe is the last step to make that a reality. In actual production, though, since we have to test web pages, we'll still need a few IE boxes laying around. But we can easily set those up with terminal servers. ;) I found the schema.sxw file, which is why I was commenting on openoffice.org. :) whoah. I can make my schema files automatically initialize table data? That's cool.... so, after I make a , assuming that name attribute in primary key is different from the field declared, how do I refer to the primary key? foreign key constraint, IIRC well, for example: now, do I hereafter, if I want to read the value of the primary key, do I call it "pk_budgets" or "budgetID"? in this kind of ADO statement (since ADO is something I'm well familiar with): response.write myRecordSet("budgetID") pretty sure the field name is the db column name but I'm not sure er, that's an asp statement I'm working with that assumption for now, and I'll find out when I import the schema I'm building. :) It does stand to reason, based on the other schemas I've looked at, and the corresponding sql statements. I don't know how you guys feel, but in my opinion budgeting is part of a financial app and should be implemented from the beginning. bummer I have to compile a new kernel as the stock on on the disks I used doesn't have ipv6 support is that why you're having trouble with the nameserver? (?) yea I was trying to set the namserver fr reverse dns on my ipv6 block it's a tunnel ya know ipv6 ver ipv4 over* so, why could I ping it, then? because I'm not in the ipv6 block? cause I was changing regular dns ipv4 via zoneedit.cm com most tunneled stuff will fall back to ipv4 Action: frayed thinks he understands I think I've got one more table to work out and then I can start in on the app. :) you know, the nature of GNUe is such that after I have a home finance app built, I'll be able to access it from anywhere on the internet. :) that's got some potential. PDA with internet. In the grocery store, buy something, put the purchase in my database immediately. with telephony stuff and a modem I could call my computer and get information out of my own database, rather than depending on the bank's. who says only enterprises need this stuff? ;0 er ;) can you cay bayonne? say* um, actually, no. ;) never was good at french pronunciation http://www.gnu.org/software/bayonne/ this frellin' kernel compile needs to hurry up wow, that looks a lot more mature than I thought it was. I compiled my kernel over nfs one time. Took something like 4 hours. um, with a 450mhz k6-2 with 3dnow :) so, does bayonne suffer from the same problem with winmodems that GNU/Linux in general suffers from? it usually uses a telephony card http://ostel.cm er http://ostel.com that's the company behind bayonne looks like they can do every kind of phone call except phone-PC. Like if I used a cell phone to call my home number. they are working on a PBX replacement Bayonne is part of GNUe Dave Sugar is hovering in #bayonne right now he's probably sleeping though cause he's sane like that ;) hm, I didn't know they were formally part of gnue, but I had noticed that there was some collaboration, or at least gnue would plugin bayonne eh? it's only 12:30, still too early for sleeping. right well that needs to eb done he's on the east coast is't 3:34am there ah. if I were on the east coast, I'd be sleeping too. or just going to bed.... hm, maybe not. heh looks like bayonne is more for things like call centers and placing outgoing calls. I guess it should logically take incoming calls too, since the two go hand-in-hand I was thinking more like a module that took the form xml files and rendered them as an interface through a touchtone phone. is that the kind of thing bayonne is going to do for GNUe? right sorta I think that's the general idea erm or gnue forms calls the bayonne server yea basically a gui for the phone system jcater and dave were talking about making some bayonne python modules but to render it in return, wouldn't bayonne need to call gnue forms? For example, I'm in the grocery store, and I want some candy. So I decide to call home and find out how much "candy" budget I have left. well forms could also be accessible via telephony interface Then I'd navigate through my financial app with my touchtone cellphone (fictional) and find out that I don't have $0.69 for a candy bar this month. So I don't buy it. I remember derek talking about thay idea right that would rock. :) It'll make this financial app I'm working on better than any proprietary app available right now. right, well the form is xml Well, a lot of things about GNUe that are already implemented already do that, I guess. :) so should have some device independence yeah, it looks like the proof-of-concept was done with ncurses and wxPython. a pda interface would be nice, and is probably either planned or done and I just haven't seen it. I can run linux on a pda w/ X from what I was seeing, not for $100. But you're right, there are some out there. There's even one with a 450mhz processor, iirc. yea, more like $300 for a nice iPAQ or a Zaurus... maybe they're cheaper now though I haven't priced them my price range will probly be about $100 for some time to come, but by the time I decide to buy one, I anticipate gnu/linux pdas being in my price range. :) that's a fast-moving market right now, that is. Action: chillywilly larts himself for typing 'linux' bt dagnabit it's shorter and I am tired ;P um, I think you can get a slightly-used ipaq for $150-200 that'll run linux. Action: frayed is still working on the habit. It's an acquired thing. I rarely do it, but I am too tired to give a crap chillywilly = sleep(awhile); waiting on the kernel compile oh yeah I may give up on it and let it finish while I sleep I should probably crash too, since I can't seem to remember what fields go in a transaction table for some reason I just want my cool hostname back ;) that's like the whole point of the exercise heh I get reverse dns and freenode has ipv6 servers ;P you know, twice I've stayed up 'till 5am because I wanted all of my clocks to show the same time. wow ummm two on the computer, three on the walls, but those set themselves. that's sad or something ;) troubleshooting mandrake's ntp install. The first time I was learning about it with compiled packages, so that was excusable. The second time I was troubleshooting mandrakes ntp install, and that was inexcusable. :( I tried to sync other machines off my server before but I dun think I ever got it working turns out not to be that hard. I couldn't get the commandline program to work, though, because the server denied it. oh well I make them all crawl out to the net Finally I said "screw this, I'm going to bed". When I woke up, the client was sync'd to the server. Not me. :) If the net's unavailable for some reason, I still want my computers' times to be the same. yea well sucks to be me maybe I'll try again some other time hey dude, you probly slept well on those nights I was up screwing with it. Always a tradeoff somewhere.... damn I should've watched this VHS tape with the farscape episode on it that I missed this was before I bought these atomic clocks that hang on the wall, though. They pick up the am signal out of colorado and sync to it. Action: frayed doesn't watch much tv. ok Action: frayed doesn't have a tv. :) yea, but this is scifi I AM SCIFI! sci-fi or not, your mind is in a passive state when watching tv. At least, mine is. So I keep it limitted. Well-limited, like, only what I can download. So, I've got 40GBs of star trek, and a bunch of red dwarf, and a burning need to buy another hard drive. thinking all the time isn't good for you ;) since my client computer is in the living room, it acts in the place of a vcr. isn't that what sleeping is for? my mind tells me it needs a break scifi makes me think therefore it's good ;) yea that's the ticket sci-fi makes you think more than regular tv. It's just the nature of the medium. I'm not saying it's bad on account of that. It's just like any other thing. Too much is bad. Too little is harmless. Something in the middle can be really really good. my wife and I chose to get rid of our tv awhile back, and we haven't looked back. ;) too much staring at the frellin' computer is bad too heh, that reminds me of an animation that was circling around for awhile on the amiga. The one about the guy sitting in front of the monitor while all the radiation transformed him. and I KNOW we all do too much of that Action: frayed admits guilt. I am going to bed I think kernels wait for another day 'night Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzZZZ frayed (~dave@12-230-185-238.client.attbi.com) left #gnuenterprise. dtm (~dtm@adsl-66.218.46.51.dslextreme.com) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-136.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-78.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. everyone hear that the space shuttle blew up on landing? what? really? Action: reinhard sees it now on internet news site please give a link Action: SachaS also reading the news www.cnn.com thanks doug_ (~doug@pr-99-074.ains.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. damn reporters I'm already hearing things about terrorism the gov. is saying no way but why make reasonable, sane statements when you can sensationalize we need a media source that isn't a bunch of bottom feeders anyway, enough ranting :) Action: jamest is away: store reinhard_ (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. doug_ (~doug@pr-99-074.ains.net.au) left irc: "killed" reinhard_ (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "Those are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary numbers, and those who don't" reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) doug_ (~doug@CPE-203-51-173-136.vic.bigpond.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. all right! our time has come http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/01/lunar.ny.beijing/index.html (joke to old gnue oldtimers) is gnue our home and family? :) In Beijing, thousands have ushered in the year of the goat with fireworks and the traditional beating of the drum. hehe beyold the goat! errr .. -y +h .. never mind :) personally .. i installed .. tested .. then promptly removed .. nola i woulda rathered be beatin a drum and beholding the comming of the goat oh my .. spellcheck in aisle two God news media pisses me off this space shuttle loss was not entirely unexpected it is 2 decade old technology with billions of points of failure the fact that this is *only* the second shuttle loss given the total number shuttle flights amazes me someone lost a space shuttle? Columbia *broke* up on re-entry oops or some such thing thats gotta suck poor dead astronauts :( but of course the news media (aka FOX) raises the possibility of terrorism at 200,000ft. oh my .. thats just plain stupid the shuttles have been accidents waiting to happen for 20 years now in perspective: more lives and dollars have been lost in purely accidental military/commercial aircraft crashes EVERY YEAR than nasa has lost in it's entire history so statistically, this was going to happen thats humans for you 5 million people ride a train and no one cares .. one gets robbed and suddenly trains arent safe if I were in the marines, I'd be a bit upset; "WTF? We lost 7 guys last week in a training crash." yeah its dodgy for sure statistically, there should be a lot more shuttle accidents a LOT more think about it from an engineering perspective, and you'll be surprised that every one in two shuttle launches does not result in disaster well .. im kinda glad it doesnt all the same yet everyone is making a big deal about it, and raising the ludicrous possibility of terrorism doug_: I'm glad it doesn't happen too, but accidents are expected yes well .. thats just stupid of them .. im pretty sure no ones going to argue that people are stupid 70% of the population are idiots .. some of them surely must work in media doug_: hahah, I'd put that percentage closer to 90% more statistics ;-) good night yeah .. but thats usa .. its only 70 here *duck* ;p SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-136.wasp.net.au) left #gnuenterprise ("Client Exiting"). doug_: I've traveled a lot, and met a lot of people, and in my opinion, stupidity knows no bounds you may be right there bias, hatered and prejudice know no bounds either yeah .. its just humans .. on the whole they are stupid critters they differ country to country and culture to culture, but they are still there, and are still a form of ignorance doug_: exactly stupid, self-destructive, critters racism is the height of ignorance from an informed biological standpoint I wish people would think more about their actions before they act ah, that's why they're raising the terrorism possibility, this shuttle flight had the first Israeli on board oops still sounds rather like a james bond plot it sounds ridiculous in my opinion the physical stresses of re-entry make any accident infinitely more possible one of two things will come of this: 1) decreased NASA funding 2) Increased NASA funding cw-zzzZZZ (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) doug_ (~doug@CPE-203-51-173-136.vic.bigpond.net.au) left irc: "I like core dumps" chillywilly (~danielb@2001:470:1f00:261:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. hi hi brb chillywilly (~danielb@2001:470:1f00:261:0:0:0:2) left irc: Client Quit chillywilly (~danielb@2001:470:1f00:261:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. aaron___ (coyote@msp-24-163-193-174.mn.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. jamest: are you around? or jcater yes run! apt-get install evolution says The following extra packegets will be installed: php4 php4-pgsql are in that list Action: derek scratches his head Action: derek needs a nap too many soccer games this am Action: derek is away: napping hoppy (~hoppy@cs242221-114.houston.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hoppy (~hoppy@cs242221-114.houston.rr.com) left #gnuenterprise. chillywilly_ (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@2001:470:1f00:261:0:0:0:2) left irc: Killed (NickServ (Ghost: chillywilly_!~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com)) chillywilly_ (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit aaron___ (coyote@msp-24-163-193-174.mn.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly (~danielb@2001:470:1f00:261:0:0:0:2) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: chillywilly -> cw-zzzZZZ --- Sun Feb 2 2003