chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ajmitch: you here? yes you know anything about FSA - Free Software Academy? masta! how may i help? derek: yes, i do can you give me 3 or 4 line overview HEH, they were just talking about that in #dotgnu and your opinion the crazies in #dotgnu are discussing it at the moment 3-4 line? hmm Action: ajmitch wonders if he knows that much about it where'd you hear about this? i have free software special mojo powers like a 'spidey' sense I think it's just an edu-type project dewd heh that somehow tunes into 'whacked' free software schemes ;) lemme review the mail a bit :) actually someone sent some stuff to our LUG list i didnt read in full but i saw some reference to dotGNU so thought one of you might know more seems very much like free developers probably minddig (adam ballai) yeah hmmm, FD? 1. interesting idea (though perhaps over the top) but without tony Action: chillywilly doesn't like the sound of that 2. too worried about all this 'structure' and not enough on how to get things done :) i.e. delusions of grandeur ;) but that is a 10,000 ft view based on speed reading two emails :) ajmitch: what do you know about mindog? btw: i think that is whom posted it he's a good chap a #dotgnu regular minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. and here he is hey derek okay... im plotting this out give me three minutes actually explain what it is so i can come back after i drop the kids off at the pool and see whats up ;) hehe btw: im really getting a drink but i thought chillywilly would get a kick out of that what is the FSA idea anyway, I have seen no mails about it chillywilly: i've seen 2 mails on the dotgnu list that seem to jump in about half-way thru the idea process ajmitch: I don't read that list it's too much right it's one list i follow fairly closely Action: chillywilly jst hits tab in mutt [00:10] Last message repeated 3 time(s). ;P nah takes 5 or 6 keystrokes to tag & mark all messages as read in a folder :) ok back and it takes on key stroke to hold tab down guess minddog isnt sure what he is plotting on windows 2000 if you hold the shift key down for like 10 seconds it does some special action we're gettin the right set of words Action: derek types so much and when i stop to think for a next sentence often i hold the shift key waiting to start the next sentence i don't want it to be long and drawn out and win2k will flip out Action: minddog forgets about the shift quick often in irc and pops a dialog saying im going into some freak mode ok/cancel heh Action: derek is such an irc junkie sadly i think i can talk er type faster than i can talk The Free Software Academy has the goal to help in removing the proprietary technology from the classroom. The academy will push institutions towards open standards to enable outside interaction with all types of readers. or at least my typing can keep up with my thought process derek: agreed minddog: have you seen AZOTO at all? i've seen you go for 10-15 lines at a time, while the rest of us try & read :) derek: i keep hearing things but no one is doing anything minddog: you up for criticism on the FSA thing? derek: I thought they stopped making 386s derek: we have a list of 9 goals its tough to get it down to 2 sentences Sure compare/contrst/incrimnate/discriminate i would suggest a different name minddog: derek's good at providing worthwhile criticism :) oh name yeah, we had a problem worthwhile? we couldn't think of anything that's debateable ;) when i hear Free Software Academy i think of somewhere to learn how to use free software Action: ajmitch gets same idea thats actually part of one goal not some organization to help aid existing learning institutions true minddog: i think you woudl be better served to pick one goal or the other to start with and put under a more generic name we just put a name on it cuz we needed to get something quick and be done with it then if you wanted to start education type services put it under the larger umbrella calling it the FSA if that makes sense too many goals at once == dispersion of resources we were going to be a group to serve the community under a single interface to the rest of the free software community ajmitch: yes Nick change: dimas -> dimas-out which is why GNUe isn't doing everything under the sun, but doing some things well :) minddog: re: AZOTO, it had a problem in that it lacked goals and focus recently the board has been entirely revamped hrmm it is meeting monthly and putting things on track derek: we were going to designate chapters minddog: now you are scaring me, as this is sounding too much like grand schemes of free developers each chapter is the location of a group of reps who can aid in the support of free software minddog: so have you met derek in person? :) nope minddog: you sure? nope to which question? derek: there will be a government and such, but we're doing this in waves minddog: you live in the desert? chillywilly: ya single wave is just a bunch of guys out in the fields trying to get a bunch of tools to aid in the convergence second wave is when we receive followers from the first wave and are ready to push some organization thats when we'd start adopting other organizations and using them...similar to outsourcing but the first wave is what we're trying to build right now basically we're going to try to push open file formats for university classes gather a small group of local people derek: do you seem interested in helping minddog: im more wise than that :) its interesting and i wish you best of luck but i have my fingers in more pies than i can eat already no way i could take on more if i wanted to yes, this, dotgnu, and asu-wig projects have got me done for Action: minddog sticks a fork in himself derek: do you know any students who complain? those are who i'm looking for i found two already most dont complain they dont care i'd agree with that yeah, i need some heads to help hand out our some small paragraphs of paper "Why should you care?" you at ASU? Action: ajmitch is reminded of mormons & JWs... :) if so is there some mandatory 'lab fees' during registration? i know at the community colleges there is a 5.00 or 10.00 computer lab fee at registration cse120 requires proprietary documentation be bought minddog: i dont count that as you have to buy proprietary physics, philosophy books etc all the time in education all lecture notes on the web are in ppt the point im trying to drive at in the "lab fee" example is if you go to the university and ask what that lab fee is for if any of it is "licensing" then one should care as the cost of the education goes up you are required to use proprietary software for math remember people dont care about freedom the US patriot act wouldnt exist if they did and also required to use proprietary software for turning in your lab reports for ee diagrams you have to hit them where it matters derek: hear hear im going to say who gives a crap if i have to use proprietary software for math oh the u.s. p.a.t.r.i.o.t. act i mean for heavens sake all math classes pretty much require a TI 8X caclulator that is non free i have to either go to a asu computer lab ...36miles or buy 100$ software to turn my labs in the point is SHOW me the pain baby show me how it not being free hurts me show me the moneeeey! btw: you dont need to show me personally, i care about freedom :) oh sorry Action: chillywilly gtes carried away gets* lol my point was most students dont understand how software not being free hurts them derek: you know what the main arugment I have heard from hardcore conservatives is that if you don't have anything to hide then what does it matter photoshop! illustrator! ms word! ms powerpoint! minddog: let me rephrase all being taught in classrooms if i go to asu i live on campus there's also the price misconception which is deeply rooted mommy and daddy pay for my school (or uncle sam does) and i do all my homework in the lab as i dont own a computer students usually buy computers derek: almost exactly like here do i really care that they use ms word, ms powerpoint, photoshop and illustrator? they are using proprietary software every day even if they can use the lab furthermore, if my daddy buys me a computer and preloads all the goodies do i care? this is why am i saying we need a "Why should you care?" before you show everyone even if he doesnt if my roomate "shares" his copy with me, do i really care? Action: derek agrees with you, so realize im playing devil's advocate just your original question was do i know students who care Action: minddog just wanted to his ppt files in pdf or ps format so he could view his stuff without a 40meg office install openoffice rather my reponse is most do not care because there is not a "pratical" problem for them there is only a "social" one you should care because you deserve equal access to information as the next guy, imho and they fail to see the "social" problem money shouldn't be a factor chillywilly: that is a social issue not a practical issue money has been the only factor for many in education =/ derek: yea it is and most college/high schoolers dont give a piss about social issues Free Software Movement is a "social" movement yeah i guess i'm rarea unless they come with free beer ;) s/social/socialist/ :) so unless its a 'practical' issue they will be tough to rally Action: chillywilly has loved free software ever since really learning what the heck GNU was really about derek you're making me feel like i'm going to never make a dent in them likely where you coudl get them to good things is DRM tell them the same things oppressing the classroom is moving to the CD player near them ooo i.e. they "socially" share music Action: minddog forgot about the other environment hrmm but if the RIAA/Microsoft and such are successful with DRM Education is the root of society it implements a "practical" problem for them if you can use this "practical" concern to introduce them to "freedom" if we start those people off with the correct social opinions it can spread like a virus you can then carry that forward into other areas minddog: bingo get them to understand that the same social behavior they have towards music should be applied to the software they use for educational purposes hrmm music is the key issue here i.e. they see "real" benefits to sharing music similar benefits exist in sharing software they just dont socially care about a document editor (word) like they do the newest Linkin Park remix btw: other political theorists do this all the time for example pro-life camps Action: minddog forgets about how it is to not get excited over a new feature in ViM get people to buy into that murder is wrong and then gently move people to that if murder is wrong and abortion is murder then isnt abortion wrong lol derek: it is wrong ;) i.e. using ideology building blocks from one theory to the next you raise such controversial issues i don't beleive it s/it/in chillywilly: you know i think it is murder, and i think murder is wrong, so i think it is wrong im just making a point hehe I know I like teasing you I do believe in abortion since I read asimovian stuff the opposing camp gets one to buy into scientific definitions of viability and slowly drags them down the its ok path if someone isn't born then it reflects everything and its a good thing they had the abortion hehe wtf? okay so we have difference of opinion but anyhow as we digress urmm cool! the point is you are always better off starting on a common ground and using it as spring board into thing you are pushing towards S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) joined #gnuenterprise. S11001001 thought the convo died ok im out numbered by dotGNU folks it "relocated" must be a sign to go to bed ;) heh okay hehe SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-149.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) Action: S11001001 copies earlier stuff derek: i guess we could start by gathering the RIAA and MPAA issues and gathering a crowd actually its interesting stuff but i do have to be up at like 6am tomorrow so i should crawl into bed ;) here are the choices. We can go to RMS and ask to take over the GNU Education activity. Pro: backing of GNU, some existing infrastructure, uh, backing of GNU. Con: we have to go to RMS and ask to take over the GNU Education activity. minddog: the other choice is, start from scratch. Do a quick write-up for intro, tarball everything else we have, and go get the starting resources (savannah, gnufans) minddog: Pro: don't have to worry about the drag from the GNU Education project (i.e. lack of inertia). minddog: Con: who the hell are *we* anyway? derek: will you be at the PLUG meeting tomorrow? tomorrow? plug-dev i think Action: derek looks at the calendar ( i thought they were on thursdays ) no i wont coach soccer practice on mondays i've only been to the bandersnatch meetings Action: ajmitch has dunlug meeting on wednesday were you at last one? nah i missed it cuz first day of class was that day Action: derek was at last one, is only reason i ask ah mlug meets 1st saturday of every month i wanted too erm, 2nd i had all the ipaq equipment ever microdrive, wifi, dual pcmcia, ..etc cool, i got ipaq installed with familiar and gpe Action: derek runs off to bed for real okay nite night derek night S11001001: lets make that decision a friend of mine is reading asimov Action: derek is away: partying with the sandman right I think we can wait to tackle the freedom issues until unspecified time. That's really the DSP's area anyway. Let's take over GNU Educational Solutions he says he digs it...talkks about some mathematical model to do something...I forgot now, doh predict the future? DSP's ? Digital Speech Project there's not much on the web about it, but they are doing campus Digital Freedom groups hrmm got some links it's ironic...the DSP looks frozen online, but is actually quite active digitalspeech.org ggodfrey (~ggodfrey@rrcs-sw-24-153-227-55.biz.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" We are looking for some help in announcing what's going on around the world in free software for education, in writing or translating documents or howtos. We would even be happy if someone would take over managing of the whole GNU education activity. ok, so let's do one more headcount? okay! Action: ajmitch doesn't think many GNUe people are still in the educational field :) jamest works at KSU Action: minddog thinks we found the missing puzzle piece you, me, mdupont..... Action: chillywilly smacks ajmitch around with a trout jcater is VP of a company that sells fundraising stuff to schools there's some educational influence that GNUe wields if ay think about it er, ya there are a couple of people here who are still students I think anyone associated with a school would be helpful jan is and you I would like to stay as far away from MSOE as possible thank you very much ;) brb chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" minddog: anyone else? hrmm danielb (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. wb thanks oh, silvernerd SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-211.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. hrrrm, doh I need my real nick hi SachaS Action: danielb is tweaking irssi danielb: well at least i know who you are :) *tweak* [01:01] Last message repeated 1 time(s). BTW, what about Schoolforge? ajmitch: true dat homey hi ajmitch okay i got an idea for our first plan of action wait let's not get ahead of ourselves :) well we get a place of communication first! Then we build a set of flyers to hand out on specific days on the other hand, we do need some examples to tell the gvc about our plans Then we derive speeches at certain locations around the world we'll do it suttle so the public sees whats up I think the DSP is where we should start at we'll talk about everyday things on these fliers reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. minddog: like what? something suttle, maybe just a list of questions to jog some thinking in the heads danielb (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" Did you know you can't copy a cd and send it to a friend? Did you know if you give your friend a program that is a $.... dollar fine? they might know this already but they don't think about it everyday! what if we just handed out fliers every couple days for a good month and hang signs Signs would be best I'm already assuming signs fliers take alot more effort, which we don't have the resources for *definitely* okay so far...i got two members at my local university just by asking them "Can you hand out fliers" minddog: so where are we on the fliers? lets create a place for fliers in html or some format so we can print out and such wait I am done with the draft...that's why I wasn't saying anything. Before I save and mail it off, one more iteration....who's with us? you, me, mdupont.... silvernerd? chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. ............... hi Action: S11001001 waits for minddog Action: chillywilly has irssi alls setup with his nick and what networks to automagically connect to and what channels to connect to hold up w00t chillywilly: irssi sux chillywilly: GU1z r001z ummm, no emacs -wn 4ever!!! er, emacs -nw ugh Action: S11001001 doesn't understand the emacs -nw people cause I like my terminal better my terminal is secksy what, your killer VT100? PET? okay what up konsole is what it's called I am done with the draft...that's why I wasn't saying anything. gnome-terminal is a fat pig, btw Before I save and mail it off, one more iteration....who's with us? you, me, mdupont.... S11001001: btw we should address Palladium and TCPA silvernerd? ermm minddog: yeah, that would be something to do with the DSP. Manyoso seemed interested S11001001: maybe we should register as groups for DSP > ? and then have a rep out of each DSP for software S11001001: why do you keep typing "silvernerd"? chillywilly: that is Peter Minten's nick ok whoah, midnight-mode just ran I don't see him in #dotgnu chillywilly: he expressed on the ML Action: chillywilly reads the rest of the irssi HOWTO minddog: what is manyoso's email? Action: minddog checks the ml manyoso@yahoo.com minddog: what do you mean "register as groups for DSP?" register an Digital RIghts Activist group blah blah blah dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: Remote closed the connection hey dsmith minddog: register what? irssi rocks my socks woops, he quit DUH Action: chillywilly needs to read the damn messages minddog: as far as I can see, the DSP is looking for localized groups yeah we can network local groups * Bridge between computer groups and Digital Freedom groups. brb minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-176.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #gnuenterprise. heyas Action: minddog had a memory leak back to BitchX basics frayed (~dave@12-230-185-238.client.attbi.com) joined #gnuenterprise. hey frayed minddog: check your email okay hello Action: minddog forgets how to use bitchx SachaS (~Sacha@dialup-196-211.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) um, quick question. what's fk_source, fk_key, and fk_description for in a dropdown box? (mentioned, but not described, in the docs) btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. hi btami i btami er, hi btami is there some way to get GNUe Navigator to authenticate with the database so that none of the subsequent forms have to? hi all frayed: there is netrc support in GConnection.py, IIRC GConnections.py in common Action: frayed admits he didn't understand the answer at all. ;( How would I flag it in my .gpd file? or would I flag it in the connections.conf file? if you have a .netrc file in users home dir, it's automatic so I'd have to make a .netrc for each user? Um, what's .netrc? ;) please look at GConnection.py in gnue.common.src it's "documented" there :) :) on my way this is all what i know about netrc :) It's all I needed. It works, thanks. :) now if we can encrypt the password... of course, chmod 600 is probably secure enough for me. there is another look at 00005.txt in gnue/common/doc/technotes Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) joined #gnuenterprise. Hello hi Arturas anybody do any timestamping of records? I followed the documentation, and it doesn't work. :( it depend on if dbdriver supports getTimestamp() but i have to say, i'v never tried it I'm running into the extensions not supported. Or at least that's where the error is. i think all pg drivers supports getTimestamp(), 'cos it's in _pgsql.DBdrivers.py what error you get? File "/home/dave/gnue/.cvsdevelbase/gnue/common/GTrigger.py", line 213, in __getattr__ raise AttributeError, '%s' % (name) AttributeError: extensions minddog (minddog@ip68-98-85-105.ph.ph.cox.net) left irc: "BitchX: it isn't only my script, its also my client" the developer's guide tells you to do this: self.MyTimeField.set(MyDS.extensions.getTimestamp()) presumably you replace MyDS with the name attribute of the datasource S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) got netsplit. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) got netsplit. reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) got netsplit. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) got netsplit. Isomer (dahoose@port-219-88-247-242.jet.net.nz) got netsplit. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) got netsplit. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) returned to #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) returned to #gnuenterprise. S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) returned to #gnuenterprise. derek (~dneighbo@cpe-24-221-112-50.az.sprintbbd.net) returned to #gnuenterprise. havoc (~havoc@mke-65-31-168-36.wi.rr.com) returned to #gnuenterprise. Isomer (dahoose@port-219-88-247-242.jet.net.nz) returned to #gnuenterprise. frayed: sorry, i have no idea well, thanks. I'm now poring through python code that I"m not understanding. Heh. what does "def" mean? define function? yes the getTimeStamp function is in the class PGSQL_TriggerExtensions. How do I access that class from within a trigger? and is python case sensitive, like c is? yes S11001001 (~sirian@192.195.225.6) left irc: johannes_ (~johannes@M693P011.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. there are some examples in gnue/samples/testcases/trigger dir maybe it helps i'm not a trigger guru :) hm, nothing that uses the extensions object, or collection, or whatever it is. gnue-sb has timestamping in the schema, but it doesn't look like the forms implement it at all. hey frayed, btami hey ajmitch. ever timestamp a record? nope huh, hi ajmitch frayed: you want intros to python? hm. done much with triggers? i know of a few online.. nah, not much with triggers yet :) I'm getting it a little at a time. It resembles Javascript a lot, it seems. Action: frayed is somewhat familiar with javascript Action: ajmitch shudders python is far far better than to be insulted like that! :) sorry dude, but the comparison will always show up when you access classmembers with strings, rather than pointers. heh of course, that could just be the nature of navigating a DOM and not specific to javascript. ajmitch: frayed got errors with timestamping from DevGuide, but i can't help maybe you can :) it could also be that they're both interpreted Action: frayed gets ready to dodge um, vbscript doesn't act that way Action: frayed dodges vbscript is an abomination :) I've just learned that I must timestamp, because I created the field in the db as NOT NULL. ok postgresql? yessir Action: ajmitch ponders Action: ajmitch thinks we have a lack of people that use the tools in a decent way around here :) ie, i dunno, you'd have to ask someone who does ;) hm in, uh, my experience, if you don't timestamp the records, then the records themselves become meaningless eventually not surprising here's the problem, just in case you happen to know. :) the trigger itself is firing, because it generates the error at the appropriate time you're supposed to call the datasource.extension.getTimestamp() method, and that call is what's failing. hmm ok do you have a copy of the form i can have a look at? :) so, somewhere, then, there has to be a definition of the datasource class with an "extension" member, which in turn has a getTimeStamp() member, right? it fails because "extension" doesn't exist Action: ajmitch would like to use the python trickiness to have a look at the object tree at that point Action: frayed thinks that's a great idea Action: ajmitch has some evil ideas :D is it possible? and, uh, how? :) oh sure it's possible this is python :) Action: frayed reserves pointing out the DOM inspector in Mozilla.... Action: ajmitch is trying to think of the best way to do this it's not really the same this is more like stopping a program in gdb I was just thinking "I wonder what the python debugger is called" heh there's a simple one called pydb which can be called from within the program let's see... try something except pydb ? SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-176.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host) not quite Action: ajmitch hasn't really used it SachaS_ (~Sacha@dialup-196-191.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: dimas-out -> dimas reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "'Hardware' defines as the parts of a computer system that can be kicked" I found something that tells you how to use pdb at least cool night :) Action: ajmitch wanders off to bed night Action: frayed gives up for the night 'night frayed (~dave@12-230-185-238.client.attbi.com) left #gnuenterprise. reinhard (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: SachaS_ -> SachaS btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) left irc: "later.." jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. i'm not clever enough for a native btami: you work w/ the win32 install right? yes do you think gtk or qt would be better than wx on the windows side of things i'm not sure ok i've gutted the ui system over the weekend in prep for support and plan to bring gtk and qt up to speed i know we're having issues on win32 but I really don't have the mindset to do native win32 driver at this time (read that as: I'd end up putting a foot thru my wife's win98 machine monitor) jbailey volunteered before, but he was waiting for some docs from you IIRC :) lol yeah i suck Action: jamest has been playing hookie from GNUe for a while but I'm back and ready to break things yeah i'm sorry, but have to go home (pick-up kids) bye btami (~tamas@ip102-205.ktv.tiszanet.hu) left irc: Nick change: SachaS -> SachaS_away dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. Arturas (~arturas@gsk.vtu.lt) left irc: "Bye :)" Action: pattieja is back (gone 63:16:43) Nick change: reinhard -> rm-away lionk (1@163.17.181.11) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes__ (~johannes@M697P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. johannes_ (~johannes@M693P011.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) Chipaca (~john@ADSL-200-59-86-138.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. lionk (1@163.17.181.11) left irc: lionktw (1@163.17.181.11) joined #gnuenterprise. lionktw (1@163.17.181.11) left irc: chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: Client Quit reinhard_ (~reinhard@M693P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) joined #gnuenterprise. rm-away (~reinhard@M689P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) Squik (~npa@ip-86-41.evc.net) joined #gnuenterprise. hi somebody ? Nick change: reinhard_ -> reinhard GNUe538 (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Squik: whats up? V-fsckd (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. Nick change: GNUe538 -> revDeke saw you were looking for help of some kind <-lost a drive i have a few minutes V-ouch gonna find out if I can recover anything from it later on, but thought I might use this new install as a chance to play with kde3.1.. know the magic apt-source for the 3.1 stuff? V-fsckd: you on sid? 'cause it's in sid (unstable) now yea oh =) yeah, I nearly fell out of my chair yesterday when I found they finally have KDE 3.anything in sid jcater sid is suprising like that sometimes x4.2 and gnome2 were kind of like just when you thought they were never gonna make it in wake up on a monday and viola the whole world is moved over well since Squik doesnt seem to have further questions.... i need to get back to some things bbl revDeke (www-data@alt1.libertydistribution.com) left irc: "CGI:IRC 0.5" it's so strange working from the console these days reinhard (~reinhard@M693P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at) left irc: "For each complex problem, there is a simple, understandable, obvious, and wrong solution" morning Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust32.midd.broadband.ntl.com) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." hi psu & hi Vee2d2 :) hi ajmitch Action: psu has been AWOL a few days Did your downgrade to wxPython fix the problem with the released versions of GNUe? If so, I'd better put an announcement to mail lists no, but jcater did a bugfix 0.4.3 designer and website cool is this going to be in effect a 0.4.4? nope 0.4.3 since designer was previously at 0.4.2 :) now it matches forms, iirc OIC well, that's what i think happened so forms wasn't b()rked? I didn;t realise nah, not afaik forms & common got bumped to 0.4.3 in december iirc, due to a couple of buglets that's right ISTR you found the bugs - mySQL-related IIRC yeah well, I can do a mini-announce for Designer 0.4.3 on the website i didn't find the bug this time :) right i think jcater might be planning another 0.5.0 prerelease not entirely sure depends on what gets hacked on no more prereleases for a while i don't think anyone tried out the last ones :( and so we moved on well, fair comment alright testing gnue pre-releases is on my list of things to be more pro-active on when I discover a way of making sleep optional ;-) Action: psu is disappointed that no-one else on the lists can make the time, tho' its ok i think i'll be happier w/ the upcomming 0.5.0 release if it has more of the 0.5.x features in it at the beginning anyway I would guess that people aren;t beating down the door for 0.5.0 as the main change is that it breaks backwards compat for a good reason, natch but still a breakage all the "goodies" in 0.5.x come later native UIs, etc psu: of course, no one tested the 0.4.x prereleases either :) as for a while, the prereleases weren't even installable of course it's either cvs or tarball release :) just an observation... I'm not starting a bitching session or anything yeah we're not bitter Action: jamest pushes his voodoo doll collection under the desk :) Action: ajmitch is definitely wanting a 0.5.0, but i guess that means you want me to hack on it ;) dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote closed the connection V-fsckd (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.7 -- Are we there yet?" chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) left irc: "leaving" hi again Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) joined #gnuenterprise. is gnue usable ? (accounting), as I've just created my own company. at this time, I'm looking about compiere, but what is about gnue ? if you are looking for an out of the box solution today, then GNUe is not ready for what you need to date, we have been focusing on the underlying tools jcater: ok, that is what I though ( 0.5.0) so the actual accounting packages are still very early most still in planning stages too bad compiere needs oracle 9i ... 5Go, 512Mo ... hard too ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl3-188.citlink.net) joined #gnuenterprise. yeah I tried compiere at one point and I have oracle installed I never did get it working :-/ ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl3-188.citlink.net) left irc: Client Quit oops :) though it appears to be a pretty complete accounting solution I use gnucash at home, but even with the 1.8.0, it is a little bit ligth for business ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl3-188.citlink.net) joined #gnuenterprise. problem is that by the time you;ve installed oracle & java, you ToyMan: welcome back wonder whether this really counts as "free" (in both liberty & cash senses) Squik: psu is our resident accountant :) and chief cheerleader these days hey psu Action: psu gets his pom poms out does this mean I get to date the quarterback? Squik: unfortunately there are no good free solutions :( there are several available that, if you cross your fingers, they may handle your specific case maybe some day SAP will decide to put R/3 under a free license, same as SAP-DB or maybe not honoured me, I'm betting on the not. I saw this one on slashdot : http://www.wyatt-erp.com/ I'dont know the OPL cool name ;-) wow, they've come along pretty well eek, I'm in vi how do I exit saving changes? Action: psu will CVSEDITOR=nano as soon as he gets out chillywilly (~danielb@mke-24-167-199-83.wi.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. [ESC]:x! thnx hi ok, designer 0.4.3 announcement on the www.gnu.org/software/gnue website hi chillywilly i'll get the www.gnuenterprise.org website synch'ed in the morning if I get the chance you better ;) lol Action: chillywilly cracks the trout er, trout whip Action: Vee2d2 hears fish squeels ha psu (psu@public1-wear2-3-cust32.midd.broadband.ntl.com) left #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." bye all, and thx for answers bye Squik (~npa@ip-86-41.evc.net) left irc: "leaving" dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) joined #gnuenterprise. chillywilly: so, hows the KDE experience going? you still using it? must be too busy enjoying KDE to respond Action: dsmith ponders how oxymoronic "enjoying KDE" is hmmm? well the main thing is nautilus is b0rked anyway, so Gnome kinda sucks but I don't see much difference in my user experience other than KDE is less resource intensive which only matters on my lappy although I do like the system tray and how more programs have system tray applets than Gnome stuff does galeon is easier to figure out how to open stuff in new tabs, etc. than konq is konq starts up faster but I did get it to choke on one web site also konsole is NOT a fat pig like gnome-terminal true gnome-terminal is being a pia for me right now.. keeps dying chillywilly: I couldn't believe how yuccy gnome-terminal is! Ugh! either gnome has gotten worse, kde has gotten better, or both Middle-mouse button doesn't even paste! Ugh! well havoc wrote gnome-terminal which surprises me why it sucks so damned much havoc pennington that is Action: Vee2d2 finds a useful tool to trying and do surgery on his dead drive with at http://www.garloff.de/kurt/linux/ddrescue/ bit kdm is a fat slob er, but so I have to start kde with gdm ;P I don't have time to wait for kdm to start up lol funny you say that because over in #ltsp even the gnome fans will not use gdm I don't even think they'll support ppl who use it because it's so fscked but that may have to do with it's networked support yea but it doesn't suck resorces I'm sure it works fine on a single login machine it makes my laptop w/160MB ram swap and I have to wait like 3 minutes for it to start the only thing I'd wonder about if gdm is loaded how many gnome libs are loaded that wouldn't normally be? but all in all sounds like you're ok w/ it which is good chillywilly: that's really oddd as I use KDM on my laptop too My boss *loves* gnome over kde, but he uses kdm instead of gdm. and I'd kill for 160 kdm_greeter does anyway Mb I have 32Mb on my laptop that seems to be the culprit chillywilly, jcater: I think chillywilly is talking about gdm from gnome 1 vs kdm from kde 3, whereas the guys at #ltsp are probably talking about gdm from gnome 2 I have wnatever the version is that's in sid Chipaca: I don't think so... that's the advice I've heard for several years chillywilly: so you're running KDE now? (and gnome 2 isn't that old iirc) isn't everyone? Action: jamest ducks jamest (~jamest@leibniz.math.ksu.edu) left irc: "[x]chat" wow when he ducks he really ducks Version: 2.2.5.5-2 gnome was good, gnome2 sucks big time havoc: I have been for like a week or more chillywilly: cool, I just started using it full time a month or two ago I've had it w/ gnome yay Action: chillywilly is ona just say no to bloatware campaign I finally got to commit something to gnue today it's been too long :) gnome 2 is bloatware I am sicks of it sick* GNU ENTERPRIES ROKS!!!11!!1 OMG that aol translator is fun Action: dsmith wonders if havoc is Havoc Pennington nope dsmith: haha, no he's Johnny Boy ;) dsmith: would be ironic if I were since I'm bashing gnome ;) Exactly I am so sick of it being cold I am freezing! ljh flksjh dflk jshldkjfh at leats we might get snow tonight but I bet most of it misses us to the north that means it has to warm pt o 32F? up to it was in the upper 30's today and for the past few days well I am cold it was pretty warm the other day um wtf is it a bad sign that apt-get update segfaults? corrupted packages database I bet grrr you can remove...umm what file is that one sec in /var/cache/apt do rm *.bin hmmm that it? yea bugger cause that didn't work :( did it fix it? hmmm then I dunno when was using apt-proxy sometimes those files would only get like half written and I woukld have to rm them and let apt rebuild them it would make apt segfault hrm it does it on the "Reading Package Lists..." like well, bugger off to google I go see it should rebuild that .bin file it did and it still pukes...hmm jcater: that happened to me the other day dpkg would die, too what I did in the end was just overwrite my packages with packages.old (or was it available? one of the two) oh the packages list is prolly fubarred yes where is that located? hrrrmmm, but those .bin files are the cached versions of the lists jcater: try just apt-get update, maybe taht fixes it Chipaca: that is what is segfaulting ooooooo fixed it jcater: doing? I removed /var/lib/apt/lists/*dists* then apt-get update ah yea jcater: :) I forget where all the damn files are Action: jcater stops sweating they're spread all over as this was my callcenter ltsp server :) esands (~nic@mdr1-port40.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz) joined #gnuenterprise. well I was close There was just recently an article on Debian Planet about recovering the dpkg database. bah apt will pull new lists anyway its not a fun thing there's nothing really to "recover" Or maybe it was somewhere else. chillywilly: what about your list of already installed packages and their versions now that would suck big time Nah, that article was on dp right, but you didn't have a db problem just a frelled up listing yeah but I was afraid very afraidf heheh anyone use courier imap? yes Here it is: http://www.linuxworld.com/2003/0113.petreley-p2.html mail.libertyetech.com runs it it beats the hell outta UWIMAP did you start out using it, or did you start out with UWIMAP and convert? that's another fat pig Action: jcater wants to convert but I have a lot of history in UWIMAP I need converted I tried UWIMAP and I said fsck this chillywilly: no kidding it's making my poor littel server work too hard Action: Chipaca waves I'm off cheers Chipaca (~john@ADSL-200-59-86-138.cordoba.sinectis.com.ar) left irc: "ircII EPIC4-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?" I usually find it handy to keep a backup of dpkg --get-selections hmmm good idea I didn't know of that option esands: Yes. a ver good idea. you're also supposed to be able to do dpkg --set-selections to like pick th esame list f packages to install again I walys have to edit that file cause it has uninstallable packages in it every time Did you prime dselect/dpkg correctly? ie. set dselect source as apt. then run an update Then do your dpkg --set-selections < file.txt esands: Have you ever tried to duplicate a box that way? several times. Not in the last year though I'd run that on the new box, then run a sudo diff -ru /etc /old/bak/etc/ | less esands: Got any good directions? I know someone who tried it and failed miserably. I wasn't around to watch, and I've never done it myself. after asking all the install questions to check everything looked good Don't know. Just works for me. Mind you, I've used debian so long, some stuff I do with thought. I think its very easy to use get/set selections with Debian/stable. Maybe not so easy with testing/unstable Dependance issues are likley to cause problems. The other important thing as I said above is the dpkg/dselect avaliable DB. You have to make sure dpkg/dselect can see the same stuff apt can see esands: Did you use dselect or apt-get ? brb esands: course I used it like that esands: but the package list keeps old cruft around and I alway had to handedit it dsmith: either I think. Forget actually. Probably dselect dselect back-ends onto apt to grab the files I don't use dselect...I used aptitude for a while now I just use apt-get esands: I was thinking maybe "apt-get dselect-upgrade" esands: But I've never done it. chillywilly: I used dselect only for --set-selection and updating dpkg --list ok dsmith: haven't seen that function before. Quickly checking the man page. Yes, I think that might be the option to use " dselect-upgrade follows the changes made by dselect(8) to the Status field of available packages, and performs the actions necessary to realize that state (for instance, the removal of old and the installation of new packages)." hmmm that should pull uninstallable stuff out of the list? chillywilly: http://panuganty.tripod.com/debiantips/packaging.htm Intresting stuff. chillywilly: dselect and apt have two different on disk DBs. ok esands: That's why my friend had problems, I think. Actually I should say, two different DBs for what files the know are 'avaliable'. Obviously installed packages is a dpkg DB that apt-get re-read each time it runs dsmith: yes. Action: chillywilly always uses make-kpkg make-kpkg is nice. that page is pretty helpful thanks dsmith hmmm, checkinstall seems like an interesting tool chillywilly: Google is your friend! I just found that. dtm (~dtm@adsl-66.218.46.51.dslextreme.com) joined #gnuenterprise. heh hey dtm hows gnue-sb progressing. Haven't seen much recently (seen much in the cvs) I don't think there has been much every try stormpkg? storm distbn is no longer maintained jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-78.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dsmith (~dsmith@208.40.56.34) left irc: "later.." chillywilly: whirred w0r|> http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?word0001.wav=word Maniac (~User@h24-82-132-209.wp.shawcable.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" jamest: why is you trippin'? what? you don't like my "word" i'm hurt I couldn't hear it worked for me you're fired SachaS_away (~Sacha@dialup-196-191.wasp.net.au) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) ROCK!!!! jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-78.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. doh Action: jcater finds a bat jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #gnuenterprise. sup snoop bailey bail? my favorite canadian able to look at dcl packages yet :) not much. Weird day. dcl? Oh yeah.. i ithink 0.9.2 was released Hmm I could probably do that now. that would be killer as i have to upgrade at work and its a debian install and so is gnue's gnue I can probably do at work. I'm just not sure what I should be tracking for that, though. What's it under? It's not showing up in the search on savannah. I'm typing in 'dcl' 0.4.3 i think is current one jbailey dcl.sf.net Action: derek runs in shame we will get it moved eventually About the same time you rewrite it to be part of gnue? =) Action: jbailey hides. yeah i'll agree to that time line ;) hi derek ToyMan (~stuq@glvv-dsl3-188.citlink.net) left irc: "Client Exiting" HEH hi sigh ximian is m$ NotZed: ok turned that flag on and nothing happened what do you expect, the world to explode? --> Gort (~Gort@cs2417580-49.houston.rr.com) has joined #evolution rofl i mean i switched the flag sent a new mail 1. it will only affect inbox, and 2. i think you need to restart evo to have it take effect then that mail picked up (in the inbox) (i.e. it wasnt server side filtered) ok will restart evolution lewing: ok, but that looks like a corner-corner case ;) yeah i guess im spoiled in thinking i change options and not have to shut down the application and restart it cept services erm, that's the way most apps are not gnue! at least there's no system reboot involved 'cause we'll crash for you to save you the option s/option/effort i suppose it depends on the option i wont even get into the massive ui problem on one tab you have option radio button "play sound on incoming mail" and define the sound you can check that but nothing happens unless you go to another dialog another tab and check "filter incoming mail inbox" now ask me the first should be "greyed out" unless the second is checked or the second should auto be checked if the first is selected or you get dummies like me in your irc going i did (a) how come it dont work use mutt yo don't need no stinkin' gui hell I don't even have gui foir iec anymore, xchat has pissed me off one too many times er for irc BLAH rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-125.client.insightBB.com) joined #gnuenterprise. rdean (~rdean@12-221-229-125.client.insightBB.com) left irc: Client Quit sorry wife aint using mutt (hell i aint using mutt) derek: CAn I send you a pre-release dcl deb to test? KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) joined #gnuenterprise. derek: hey ther ed s/ed/e/ ! derek: what's the status of contact mgmt on dcl? derek: looks like mdean's gone into code animal mode hii is there a list of succesful stories on gnue deployment? *sigh* remind me to not argue on irc anymore it's pointless ?? yeah its like breaking up with your girlfriend on ICQ haha morning people evening ;) hey debian stud (chilly) what is the command option on woody cd to install ext3 and 2.4 kernel? bf4.2? jbailey: can you post it to net and give me url or email to me derek@gnue.org i cant test tonight have a debian box to install for church :) bf2.4 hmm tabbing will tell you bf2.4 gives but dude why? Could not find kernel image" bf2.4 special hardware? why what? tabbing will tell you the options usually i want 2.4 kernel and ext3 derek: hay dood. what's the status of dcl contact mgmt? mostly ext3 just to save the 5 minutes it takes to reconfig it derek: dude i have been happy with 2.4 kernel I wouldn't go that route and likely will want usb support bf2.4 kernel is VERY limited jcater: ok you'll have to reinstall a decent kernel this box will not be connected to net so i will defer to your judgement whether you use stock install or bf2.4 derek: i need to use DCL for sales force automation and some CRM ummm need to get ram and NIC in it derek: so i'd like to know if there's a version i can use stably for contact mgmt derek: so i can keep a history per person and connect to net upgrade and get open office then drop in church derek: or if i need to start a new project per person dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1c-203.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #gnuenterprise. but derek didn't you know we all evolved from apes dtm: contact management in dcl wont be ready until 1.0 gnue contact management is usable derek: ok well is it in any way linked with dcl? anyway I just had an argument about evolution v. creation and boy it was a blast :-o chillywilly: oh golly derek: so does gnue contact mgmt have a web browser ui? that's required at this juncture dtm: yes it will link with dcl derek: what's my best compromise? i could start a line of DCL Projects, one per org or individual. and i could implement a timecard for every communication, and a WO for each comm to be scheduled. no it does not have a web ui derek: does it currently link i loathe them W: dcl: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/dcl/www/img/false.gif W: dcl: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/dcl/www/js/list.js W: dcl: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/dcl/www/img/true.gif W: dcl: executable-not-elf-or-script ./usr/share/dcl/scripts/install/xml/display.psp and refuse to subjecate my users to them oh really? tell me about that in the most eviscerating way possible for the four hundredth time? that's SO FASCINATING derek: so does that sound like the best compromise for pure DCL usage right now for CRM/SFA? Anyone know why these files are executable in the upstream tarball? jbailey: cause its fun derek: coz essentially, SFA and CRM are ongoing projects semi-permanent dtm: whatever works best for you Action: derek noted sarcastically on the web part because im shocked you still ask me (is there a web ui) derek: your shock is quite irrelevant in light of the web UI subprojects for gnue derek: How do I get it fixed upstream? and you can tell chillywilly instead of me all about it next time. he's my rant-taking liason. He likes it! :) it's motivating. derek: so does Project-based CRM/SFA sound reasonable? derek: the only problem i forsee is that there's a lack of contact mgmt schema at all in there, so it'd be crappy to get the data out later when DCL does get one :/ so i should probably use axisgw's existing contact mgmt, and parallel it with DCL un, no dtm chillywilly: no? well ok be a big boy and take your own medicine i'll shop around for a new rant secretary they wont be as good as you are, though dtm: bigbrother? does anyone have any ideas on my plight if you want to argue darwin v. the bible then we can go at it j/k ;) jcater: eh? :) chillywilly: heheh chillywilly: yeah that's a fascinating subject... although Darwin said nothing particularly in contradictin to the Bible chillywilly: just had a theory that creatures can evolve, at all, as opposed to not jcater (~jason@w202.z065105010.mem-tn.dsl.cnc.net) left irc: "home" dtm: uh...not quite jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-78.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) joined #gnuenterprise. dtm: I don't believe in theistic evolution...it's a cop out ahhh chillywilly: well i dont know enough to have a position, other than vague intuition or whatever it's a heinously complex subject derek: well i suppose i might hafta use axisgw's existing contact mgmt and infolog, and have a script that converts it into DCL data later read the origin of species ;) derek: just coz it's good enough for now and is already integrated and then read revolution against evolution derek: and has a schema mayan derek: And /usr/share/dcl/scripts/grant.sh should be executable. chillywilly: i vote that you can write GNUe's next press release on GNUe' s position on evoution vs. creation that'll be exactly how GNUe's roadmap stands, as juxtaposed against the theistic and scientific landscapes so our users in accounting and operations can further identify with their computer processes derek seems remarkably silent. =) yes he has been likely detained by matters slightly more domestic I think that derek probably is not a creatioinist heretic! buuuurrrn hiiiim! ok well then. Really? Isn't he the one who started geeksforjesus or something like that? i'm off.. ttyl 'bye dtm i believe so geeks4christ.net Hey, I was close. =) jbailey: yea but many christians believe that God started the ball rolling and that's it For hacing seen it once. evolution took over chillywilly: How is that different than creationism? and that the account in genesis is not meant to be taken literally hopefully his work as a youth pastor hasn't convinced him that children are proto-humans who EVOLVE into higher, more civilized, less animalistic life forms ;) at what age? 75? Ah, I didn't realise that there were Christians who beleived in the literal word of Genesis. None of the ones I've spoken to so far do. (on that topic anyway.. I can't comment about the Christians with whom I haven't discussed Genesis) jbailey: Yes, I believe in the literal word of Genesis jbailey: yes that file should be executable Action: derek is installing a machine and chatting with wifey Action: havoc is writing cost analysis software what fun hip hip hoooray as for my creation vs evolution beliefs i believe there is a divine creator part of that creation includes the ability to evolve for example bacteria strains over time become resistant to antibotics used to fight them our skin becomes darker as we 'tan' in the sun, our fingers calous when we work with our hands etc etc i.e. i think the creator makes things "adapt" or "evolve" cause it's in the design? do we come from monkeys, i wouldnt go that far, but i wouldnt rule it out just yet either i will simply say there is a designer (which differs in theory from darwin) derek: But there are never any "links" between the "kinds". right like for instance the girrafe dsmith: i highly doubt we are from monkeys, but i am a pragmatist to a large extent giraffe so while i tend to say no way in hell we are from monkeys i can't definitely prove we aren't so i wont say no way in hell it needs special muscles in its neck to keep it head from bursting when it take a drink i will just say highly unlikely kind of the never say never approach jbailey: when will grub be default boot loader for debian Action: derek hates that lilo is the default what if you had some kinda almost giraffe and it's missing this key feature (a genetic mutant) it would surely not survive *There* *are* *no* *abolutes!* jk heheh chillywilly: no silly it would be a mutant and join the x-men derek: Dunno. I try to avoid thinking about the installer. like all good mutants do lol I see a whole lot of factoring going on in Creation. dsmith: have you read this: http://www.rae.org it's an intereating book chillywilly: no. Action: dsmith looks looks intresting erm, yea that too Action: chillywilly types like crud Action: dsmith types worse than chillywilly jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) joined #gnuenterprise. I dunno I think havoc can match me pretty well ;) Action: chillywilly ducks huh? nite all havoc: in sloppy typing nm ah KeithJagrs (trilluser@63.74.24.9) left #gnuenterprise. Action: derek is away: sleeping jbailey (~jbailey@CPE0060082df811-CM014260028338.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" 9pm and he's going to bed? dentist in the morning jamest (~jamest@adsl-64-216-106-78.dsl.tpkaks.swbell.net) left #gnuenterprise. Vee2d2 (~vin@c66.169.136.41.ftwrth.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) jcater (~jason@cpe-066-061-083-220.midsouth.rr.com) left irc: "Client Exiting" SachaS_away (~Sacha@dialup-196-191.wasp.net.au) joined #gnuenterprise. hi everyone ello Nick change: SachaS_away -> SachaS hmm, snow --- Tue Feb 4 2003